Talk:Nicene Creed
Please excuse my failure to understand the above concerning textinfo. I don't intend to add text to the Wikisource page, but only to point out some errors in it. It claims to give translations of what it calls the Σύμβολο της Πίστεως. Σύμβολο της Πίστεως is modern Greek, not the Greek of the First Council of Nicaea in 325 or the First Council of Constantinople in 381, when the expression would have been Σύμβολον τῆς Πίστεως. None of the English translations to which links are given claims to be made from the Σύμβολο της Πίστεως used today in the liturgy of the Church of Greece, which begins with Πιστεύω (I believe), while the texts of the two councils begin with Πιστεύομεν (We believe). None of the translations are of the 325 text, in spite of the claim it makes that the original was "by Council of Nicea". They are not even of the 381 text. They are instead of the form that the Creed took in the Latin tradition later, with "Deum de Deo" (God from God) and "Filioque" (and from the Son), absent in the 381 text - although one of the ECUSA translations does in part go back to the 381 text by using the plural ("We") instead of the singular ("I") that is found in the Latin text (Credo). Esoglou (talk) 20:58, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Indeed, I sloppily copied the Greek over from the interwiki to the Greek wikisource based on my rudimentary understanding that this was originally a Greek document. Are you saying these should not be called translations of anything in particular? I think I can agree if I understand what you wrote. Let me know and I will change from the translations template to Template:Versions. Would it also be correct to simply leave the author field blank? --Jfhutson (talk) 21:37, 1 March 2013 (UTC)
- Or could these be called translations of Symbolum Nicænum Costantinopolitanum? --Jfhutson (talk) 16:05, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
- Most versions used in the West are indeed based on the Latin text, call it Symbolum Nicaeno-Constantinopolitanum if you wish. The 1662 text is an accurate translation of that Latin text. The 1979 version is a bit of a mixture, having "God from God" and "and the Son", which are in the Latin, but not in the original text and not in the Nicene Creed as recited in the churches in communion with Constantinople, while at the same time drawing on the original text for "We believe", "we acknowledge", "we look for", instead of the "I believe" etc. of the Latin text and of the formula recited in the churches of Byzantine tradition (but not in those of Oriental Orthodoxy). I regret that I have no suggestion to offer, other than to omit all reference to the original and say only that these are two English versions of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. In any case, I don't think they are particularly valuable - neither the one in rather archaic spelling nor the modern one that may relatively soon fall out of use. Esoglou (talk) 17:32, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- The English Wikipedia now gives links to this single page both for the Nicene Creed in the strict sense (that of 325) and for the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed (commonly but loosely called the Nicene Creed), although it stresses that these are distinct creeds. The translations given here have been exclusively of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. I have therefore created the page Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed (as Jfhutson perhaps suggested) for that material, replacing it here with the 1900 Schaff translation of the Nicene Creed (understood in the strict sense).
- I trust more knowledgeable editors to improve my edit. Esoglou (talk) 16:55, 15 June 2013 (UTC)
- Most versions used in the West are indeed based on the Latin text, call it Symbolum Nicaeno-Constantinopolitanum if you wish. The 1662 text is an accurate translation of that Latin text. The 1979 version is a bit of a mixture, having "God from God" and "and the Son", which are in the Latin, but not in the original text and not in the Nicene Creed as recited in the churches in communion with Constantinople, while at the same time drawing on the original text for "We believe", "we acknowledge", "we look for", instead of the "I believe" etc. of the Latin text and of the formula recited in the churches of Byzantine tradition (but not in those of Oriental Orthodoxy). I regret that I have no suggestion to offer, other than to omit all reference to the original and say only that these are two English versions of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed. In any case, I don't think they are particularly valuable - neither the one in rather archaic spelling nor the modern one that may relatively soon fall out of use. Esoglou (talk) 17:32, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
- Or could these be called translations of Symbolum Nicænum Costantinopolitanum? --Jfhutson (talk) 16:05, 5 March 2013 (UTC)