Talk:Sun Yat-sen's speech on Pan-Asianism

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Should the suggested move be to Wikisource or Wikiquotes? Shawnc 20:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

An excellent question which I hadn't really considered when I nominated it to be moved. After looking at wikiquote a little (for what is, admittedly, the first time), wikiquote seems like it's more for short quotes. Wikisource OTOH seems to be more for complete primary source material. Wikisource also has an entire section for speeches, so I'm going to have to go with wikisource on this one, but at the same time admit that I'm not the best person to ask, and if someone else has a more informed opinion you should feel free to ignore mine. :-) --Bachrach44 03:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
This would be acceptable on wikisource if it were not a likely copyright violation. The only way for it to be accepted there is if the translator releases it to the GDFL. Which is likely if an editor translated it and unlikely if it was lifted from another souce--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 17:56, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

The question of copyright violation is difficult here. It is an anonymous translation published in Shanghai in 1941 under the Japanese puppet government. Do People's Republic of China rules apply today or Republic of China (Taiwan) rules apply? Either way the copyright is limited to the death of the author plus 50 years. Since Sun Yat Sen died in 1925, this speech is in the public domain.
Let us assume that the Nationalist Government copyright rules apply. Under current Taiwanese law (Republic of China), the relevant sections seem to be Articles 30-32 and 62, according to their official website: http://www.tipo.gov.tw/eng/laws/e1-4-1an93.asp

Essentially, they extend the life of the copyright to 50 years since Sun Yat Sen's death in 1925. Or, in the case of the anonymous translator, 50 years since the publication in 1941, so 1991. I think Taiwan's Article 62 trumps all other considerations, since this work is manifestly a "public speech on politics." Therefore the speech is (and always has been) in the public domain.

Article 30 Except as otherwise provided in this Act, economic rights endure for the life of the author and fifty years after the author's death. Where a work is first publicly released between the fortieth and fiftieth years after the author's death, the economic rights shall endure for a term of ten years beginning from the time of the first public release.
Article 31 Economic rights in a joint work subsist for fifty years after the death of the last surviving author.
Article 32 Economic rights in a pseudonymous work or an anonymous work endure for fifty years from the time of public release; provided, the economic rights shall be extinguished where it can be proven that the author has been deceased for over fifty years.
Article 62 Public speeches on politics or religion, and public statements made in legal proceedings or during proceedings of central or local government agencies, may be exploited by any person; provided, consent of the economic rights holder shall be obtained when compiling a compilation work that is dedicated to the speeches or statements of specified persons.

How do people determine copyright for no-longer existing state entities? The copyright laws in force at the time the speech were published seem to have been lax. I found guidance in William P. Alford , To Steal a Book is an Elegant Offense: Intellectual Property Law in Chinese Civilization, Studies In East Asian Law, Stanford: Stanford University Press, 1995, p. 50-55. On p. 52 he notes that literary protection of any kind was rare or non-existent.

Kenmayer 18:25, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

The question has been raised about the anonymous translator and how this affects copyright. Let us review. This translation was printed anonymously in 1941 in Japanese-occupied Shanghai. I typed it in from the copy of Sun Yat Sen, China and Japan: Natural Friends, Unnatural Enemies, Shanghai: 1941 currently in the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C. USA.

According to the copyright laws of Nationalist China, the original speech in 1924 was not covered by copyright, or if it was, the rights expired 50 years after the death of the author.

Rights to the derivative work of translation usually belong to the author or her heirs. If the author's copyright expired, the translator can claim copyright, or in the case of work by hire (as was probably the case here) the publisher can claim copyright. At the time this work was published (and still today, I believe) anonymous authors and translators could only claim rights for 50 years after publication (the date of death of anonymous writers being difficult to determine).

It is hard to see how this work can not be public domain in the U.S. in 2006. I searched for any earlier translations which might have been stolen to produce the 1941 edition and did not find anything.

As this anonymous translation was made in 1941 in Japanese-occupied Shanghai, I consider the Copyright Law of the People's Republic of China would be the primary governing law. Having checked Article 24 of its 1991 by-law (zh:中华人民共和国著作权法实施条例/1991年), anonymous works are copyrighted for 50 years unless the author is confirmed. Without any authorship confirmation, this work is PD in China since 1992 and also in the USA.--Jusjih 23:51, 1 May 2007 (UTC)