User talk:GrafZahl/Archives/2008

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As the only one of the three Latin-speakers still active on WikiSource, I thought I'd ask you to help me translate the title of Pro Patria Cuncta et Facere et Ferre Parati - which I assume is a take on the Pro Patria Mori slogan, but feel it would be appropriate to have a full translation of the title in the header info. Cheers! Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Wikisource:Sheet music 19:08, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi Sherurcij, "speaker" is certainly an exaggeration and I'm by no means a Latin expert. Have you checked out all the users in Category:User la?
Now, let's try to find some translation. First off, are you sure this is the correct title? I don't know the word cunota, so I'll assume that's a misspelt cuncta. The translation is somewhat ambiguous, but given the contents and tone of the poem, I'd translate the title to "Prepared to work and suffer for the whole fatherland" in that case. Normally, patria simply means "home" but it comes from pater "father", so "fatherland" seems appropriate given the context. facere is a very generic verb meaning "to do", "to make", "to perform", etc. I chose "to work" as translation but there might be better choices. ferre quite literally means "to carry" or "to bring/fetch" but I have a feeling that "to suffer" might be appropriate here. Also note that parati "prepared" is written in plural. There is still the possibility that et facere et ferre parati is some kind of idiom.
I hope this helps you a little.
--GrafZahl 13:28, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Confirmation discussion[edit]

I have set up your confirmation discussion at Wikisource:Administrators#User:GrafZahl. Please advise if I've bobbled anything! ++Lar: t/c 20:56, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks fine to me, thank you! A link to TalBot's contributions and logs would be nice, too. But it's not that important, its latest contributions all being in context of soft redirect maintenance and hence not that interesting.--GrafZahl 08:55, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
I missed that connection, sorry. But Pathoschild corrected it, TalBot's on there too. Best. ++Lar: t/c 16:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Missing text[edit]

I do not see any of the text at A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism/Part I/Chapter VI... I see the heading and a link to scanned pages and then the footer... not sure what the problem is, so I thought I would let you know. I looked at another page and I see text on it. --Mkoyle 04:46, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Mkoyle, the thing is, the text simply has not been transcribed yet. Please press edit on that page and scroll down. You'll find links to the scanned page images, such as Page:A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism Volume 1 169.jpg. You can then read the book through these images. You are welcome, if you like, to transcribe a portion of this work. Every single page is appreciated. To transcribe formulas and displayed equations, please check out Help:Displaying a formula and templates such as Template:disp right, Template:centalign right and others in Category:formatting templates. Feel free to ask questions on the transcription process here on my talk page.--GrafZahl 09:43, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

deleted images[edit]

Hi, I see you are also looking into those deleted images. I left a note on the uploaders en.wp looking for clarification.[1] No reply so far. John Vandenberg (chat) 21:11, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I've deleted the footnotes from the texts for now.--GrafZahl 10:17, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Collaboration project[edit]

This weeks collaboration project is G. W. Bush. Please take the time this week to identify and/or transcribe one important work by, or involving, this very prominent person who is relevant to us all. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Treatise on Law[edit]

The main reason I want to keep the parts long, is because it best assists the way I had read and continue to read the Treatises. At first I would go the article that most interested me, and then work my way backwards to the other articles in the same question. Those articles would contain references to earlier questions, and I would go back to learn the reasoning contained in those previous questions, which would also most likely belong to the same treatise.

Also, when you go back in the text in the way I described there may be a number of intermediate steps in between, contained in the intervening question, that have grown in comprehensibility and may be more interesting or are of increased help in one's effort to grasp the ideas Aquinas are presenting.

When the cross-references are inserted this will be more evident, as browser commands can be used to link to these other parts, but without the page load delays that would otherwise be necessary.

ResScholar 06:15, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser request[edit]

In case you havent noticed, Pathoschild and I are currently up for community approval at WS:ADMIN to be granted the role of checkuser for the English Wikisource project.

In order for the role to be granted, we need to obtained a minimum of 25 votes of approval. Please consider and add your thoughts or approval. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I did notice, but I forgot again. Sorry. Thanks for bringing this back to my attention.--GrafZahl 08:51, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

thank you[edit]

Wow. Thanks for picking that up. John Vandenberg (chat) 09:01, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Personal favour[edit]

Hey, I noticed from WS:Admins that you're the only one here who speaks German, and I wondered if you could translate a short blurb for me? If it's too long, even just translating the first two sentences would be enough to get a stub started :)

Omar Khadr (born September 19, 1986) is the fourth child in the Canadian Khadr family. He was captured at the age of 15 by American forces in Afghanistan following a July 2002 firefight in which an American Special Forces soldier was killed.

The only Western citizen remaining in Guantanamo, Khadr is unique in that Canada has refused to seek extradition or repatriation despite the urgings of Amnesty International.

He has been held in Guantanamo Bay for the past six years, and is currently awaiting a military tribunal.

Much thanks, it's going to be an EN. featured project soon, and I'd like to at least have stubs in other languages prepared :) Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: William Lyon Mackenzie King 07:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I'd translate that as

Omar Khadr (geboren am 19. September 1986) ist das vierte Kind der Familie Khadr aus Kanada. Er wurde im Alter von 15 Jahren von amerikanischen Streitkräften nach einem Feuergefecht im Juli 2002, in dem ein amerikanischer Soldat einer Spezialeinheit getötet wurde, in Afghanistan gefangengenommen.

Khadr ist der einzige sich noch in Guantánamo befindliche Bürger eines westlichen Landes. Sein Schicksal ist insofern einzigartig, als Kanada sich trotz Drängens von Amnesty International weigert, einen Auslieferungs- oder Rückführungsantrag zu stellen.

Er sitzt seit sechs Jahren im Gefangenenlager in der Guantánamo-Bucht ein. Ihn erwartet ein Prozess vor einem Militärtribunal.

I've taken some liberties in the translation to avoid stilted-sounding phraseology. As always, no warranty ;)
BTW, have you noticed my Latin translation you requested some months ago?
--GrafZahl 11:32, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Much thanks, I'd completely forgotten about this! Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Wikisource:Confucianism 18:31, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


Last night I set up a toolserver tool which says we now have 26130 unique page titles, and 2610 author pages: see Wikisource:Scriptorium#Statistics.

Until just now I forgot that you mentioned on Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2008-04#100K that you had used TalBot to arrive at a stat of 24367 unique page titles. It would be nice to work out whether we are using the same formula, and improve the algorithm and/or move pages around to simplify deriving a meaningful statistic. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi John, my algorithm is extremely simple: get all pages from the main namespace (except redirects) and remove everything from the page title after and including '/' (which may be the empty string). Then count the number of different titles, i.e.
sed 's|/.*||' < allpages_sorted.txt | uniq | wc -l

Using this rather coarse method, I get 25791 works now, a deviation from your result of about 1.3%. There are two competing sources of inaccuracy. One is that disambiguation pages and soft redirects are included in the count. That should be easy to fix, just remove all pages in the relevant categories. The other are pages such as Special:Prefixindex/9/11 which are counted only once.--GrafZahl 11:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I think that is an acceptable deviation; we can roughly infer the growth since your stat.
I've just checked now, and all "9/11 ..." pages are counted separately in my tool.
I had noticed soft redirects, yet forgot to add handling for those into the code. I've now removed all pages that transclude {{soft redirect}} - will that cover all soft redirects? In the process of fixing this, I also fixed a bug in the detection of disambiguation using {{Bible versions}} and {{Bible versions 2}}. The result went down from 26143 to 26001.
Thanks for the quick response. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Ideally, it should be sufficient to just ignore all pages in Category:Disambiguation pages and Category:Soft redirects (including subcategories), instead of collecting references to templates and remove those. But I found {{bible versions}} does not add pages to Category:Disambiguation pages. OTOH, this talk page is now referenced by {{soft redirect}} because of this discussion. With category subtraction, an accurate count can be achieved if all pages are categorised properly: take all main namespace pages and subtract Category:Subpages, Category:Soft redirects and subcategories, and Category:Disambiguation pages. Needless to say this is a big "if". Maybe the latter two categories (and possibly more) should be added to a new category:non-work categories or something to make counting easier.--GrafZahl 13:10, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

My SQL excludes any page in the main namespace that includes the templates {{Disambiguation}}, {{Disambig}}, {{Bible_versions}}, {{Bible_versions_2}} or {{Soft_redirect}}; and I can readily add more templates without needing additional database queries. This is the SQL:

SELECT page_title, tl_from AS found_dab_template
FROM page LEFT OUTER JOIN templatelinks ON
    (page_id = tl_from AND tl_namespace = 10 AND
        (tl_title = 'Disambiguation' OR 
         tl_title = 'Disamb' OR
         tl_title = 'Bible_versions' OR 
         tl_title = 'Bible_versions_2' OR 
         tl_title = 'Soft_redirect')) 
WHERE page_namespace = 0 
AND   NOT page.page_is_redirect
ORDER BY page_title

I then group them into works in the PHP code, by looking for:

$pos = strpos ( $title , $last_title.'/' );

If $pos === FALSE, the last_title is printed, and any row a value in "found_dab_template" is discarded.

John Vandenberg (chat) 13:40, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi John, thanks for your elaborations. A direct SQL query is of course much more efficient than pywikipedia (I don't have much experience with SQL but I hope the server evaluates the ON clause separately for each table before joining), and your subpage detection algorithm is near perfect, certainly better than mine (one remaining source of errors is the fact that the '/' glyph sorts later than certain other glyphs allowed in titles, which leaves the theoretical possibility of not detecting some subpages properly). Is it possible to ignore pages based on category as well?--GrafZahl 09:24, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
I hadnt thought of the possibility of / sorting after other characters; ill review that to see if there are any page names that are not correctly determined.
The ON clause is resolved first; MySQL isnt my forte (I'm an Oracle man), so at present I am assuming their documentation is mostly correct.
Adding categories to the logic is doable, but it involves another table which is best avoided if it can be. If it cant be avoided, then I will add it. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:03, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


Hi GrafZahl

I did a mistake when i created my user account, can you rename it or tell me who can. The new name would be »Fellow Readers« with a capital R. thanks --Fellow readers 17:22, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

You can create a new account. John Vandenberg (chat) 03:21, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Hi Fellow Readers, for accounts which do not yet have any contributions it's best to simply create a new one, as John has kindly pointed out. Otherwise, you'd have to ask someone with the right to rename a user (see the list of rights).--GrafZahl 08:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons[edit]

Thanks for heads up on protocol. Will take care of miss-uploads and notify you soon to delete the wikisource uploads that need deleting. Much thanks. Should I do same with misuploads there? Is this an Admin privilege?unsigned comment by Cloudmountain (talk) 23:00, 22 May 2008.

Thanks for uploading the files to the Commons. Yes, deleting is an admin privilege, and I'm not a Commons admin, so I cannot help you with Commons deletions (in the case of duplicates, you'll probably just want to slap the commons:Template:duplicate on the files). BTW, you can sign your posts by appending four tildes to it: ~~~~ and the software will render your name and the current date.--GrafZahl 08:41, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

djvu files are ready[edit]

You mentioned that you move the pages from Index:A Treatise on Electricity and Magnetism. I've set up the new transcription projects and noted them here. --John Vandenberg (chat) 11:05, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Um, it seems the move is already complete? Just wondering, as there was nothing on WS:BOTR.--GrafZahl 08:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:numb form[edit]

I copy here the previous talk since you are interested about. I updated the template adding some more parameters, it seems running!

Template:Numb form[edit]

I wrote a simple template to manage Numbered Formulas. T.i, formulas (centered on the left) with a number (aligned to the right). It's simply a two-cell table 100% width, first cell aligned center, second cell aligned right.

This code:

{{numb form
|<math>\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac{dX}{dx} dx + (X' - X)</math>


\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac{dX}{dx} dx + (X' - X)


Hi Alex, nice template! Red Rooster appears to be dormant these days (only one edit since August 2006). I've tried to make some formula formatting templates myself some time ago, with more or less success. Please check out Category:Formatting templates, with templates such as {{disp}}, {{disp right}}, {{centalign right}}, {{textalign}}, and so on. Maybe some of these useful for you.--GrafZahl (talk) 13:14, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
It seems I rediscovered exactly the same template....
\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac{dX}{dx} dx + (X' - X) (6)

Yes, exactly the same graphics!... I can simply redirect my one to the original. Thanks! --Alex brollo 22:42, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
No, the behavior is slightly different... my template manages long formulas too! :-) I have to save it. --Alex brollo 22:57, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Sure. Maybe we can, at some point, bring both sets of templates under one hood. Or maybe one day MediaWiki gets intrinsic support for displayed formulas.--GrafZahl 08:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

One more parameter[edit]

I added one optional parameter: an optional text on the left of the formula (parameter 3) . The old syntax is running too.

So, now, this code:

{{numb form
|<math>\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac{dX}{dx} dx + (X' - X)</math>
|This is a text on the left of the formula!


This is a text on the left of the formula!

\int_{x_1}^{x_2} \frac{dX}{dx} dx + (X' - X)


--Alex brollo 07:18, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

The last formula does not appear centred in my browser (i.e., the lefttext pushes the formula slightly to the right).--GrafZahl 08:25, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, true. The formula is centered into its cell of a table, where cells are of fixed width. I use deprecaded attributes for td tag... I'll fix it with white-space: nowrap style. --Alex brollo 08:42, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
OK. it seems to run... and one parameter is absolutely unuseful so far. :-) Thanks! --Alex brollo 08:48, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Did you mean to fix the off-centre formula? Because here (firefox iceweasel) the formula is still pushed to the right.--GrafZahl 13:23, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

thanks for the reply, and i'll talk to you later :)[edit] 17:23, 23 August 2008 (UTC)