User talk:RonSimpson

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Welcome[edit]

Welcome

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Again, welcome! Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:28, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

First Voyage Round the World[edit]

Hi, I've gone over the pages you've done in this work. You're doing fine with what is not an easy scan to read. Have a look at the pages and see what I've done, by way of example.

  • The running headers have been moved up into the header field and the {{Running header}} template has been used.
  • Paragraph breaks need an extra line break to make them not run together.
  • Footnotes are done by using a pair of tags <ref> & </ref> at the place where the footnote marker is in the text. Put the footnote text between the two tags.
  • I've put a bit of special formatting at the end of Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/181 and the beginning of the next page to deal with the word that is split between the two pages.

If there's something I've done that you don't understand, feel free to ask. Have fun, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:28, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Re your question please see the edit here. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
The word prahu (proa) happened to be one I recognise, a type of sailing boat used in Indonesia and Malaysia. This scan and its OCR text layer is not very good, so don't get the idea that proofreading here is usually this much work. It is a desirable text, so I will see if there is better scan around. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 00:50, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I've managed to find a better scan of this work, makes it a lot easier to read. Wish I'd found it a lot earlier.RonSimpson (talk) 00:02, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I was in some doubt about the word, so checked an online dictionary which confirmed what you have just told me, and I've corrected all instances of the word. I can't find fusta in the online dictionary, but I'm pretty sure that's what the word is. Yes, the scan is a bit unclear in some places, makes it a bit tricky when the words are obsolete or in another language, but it's ok to have a bit of a challenge. Maybe it's a good thing to start with a tricky one - then everything else will seem a lot easier. Thanks again for your input RonSimpson (talk) 01:07, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/199‎‎ you may wish to validate. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:39, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, I've rechecked, made another change (Paghinsara to Pahinzara). I found a scan of another edition which is a lot clearer and is helpful with some of these spellings which are difficult to read in our scan. Have now validated the page. RonSimpson (talk) 22:22, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

The mysterious Header toggle button[edit]

When proofreading in the Page: namespace and one has their toolbar turned on [Gadgets | Editing (tab) | Editing toolbar (checkbox)], one will see the button Button category plus.png, and clicking it toggles the header/footer on and off. In this space we put the relevant components for top and bottoms of pages, usually by use of the template {{RunningHeader}}, so for example {{RunningHeader|Stanhope|3|Stanhope}} produces

Stanhope
Stanhope
3

I personally have my header/footer set to open in the Page: namespace and I achieved this by activating that option in my Gadgets. To also note that at this time, the use of the newer Wikieditor toolbar (Editing tab in My preferences) does not yet display all the tools that we utilise for proofreading. If you turn it off in your preferences you access the older toolbar and more editing options. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:40, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

The mysterious Header toggle button[edit]

Hi and thanks very much for your helpful reply to my query. As you may have gathered I'm a beginner in this area, and a slow learner, but your reply was really great & solved the mystery for me. I'll be more confident now in my work as a result. RonSimpson (talk) 10:03, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

Mate, there are no worries. Slow learner, quick learner, whichever is okay, we help them all. Ours is a passion, and we are happy to share. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:49, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
As a note, please feel welcome in changing the proofread status from 'Not Proofread' (red) to 'Proofread' (amber) when you are comfortable that the text is correct. This then allows the next person to proofread and promote to 'Validated' (green). If you look at Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/185 you can go back and promote it to that last state if you think that it is correct. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:21, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

new paragraphs[edit]

Welcome. I noticed your contribution on Special:RecentChanges, and thought I would give you a tip. The way to create new paragraphs on wikis is to use two returns, to give one empty line between each, like this:

…and two others with gilt caskets full of betel.
 
The king gave us a welcome,

CYGNIS INSIGNIS 00:02, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

Centring Small Caps[edit]

Hi just wondering if someone could give me a hand with this. I'm on Page "Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/238" which requires centred small caps. I've tried to achieve this by what I thought are the prescribed methods, but haven't been able to do it. I've done it for now by using gaps, but I know this isn't the correct method. I'd appreciate a little advice on this. Thanks a lot.RonSimpson (talk) 22:48, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Hi Ron, you can nest multiple formatting templates. I've done it for you, have a look and see if it makes sense. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:50, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

A query regarding references[edit]

Hi again. I recently encountered for the first time a situation where a reference note is continued at the foot of the following page, (but is still the same reference number for the preceding page). I've handled this by placing the entire reference on the page on which it starts, but I'm not sure if this is the correct procedure. ("Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/237 & 238)RonSimpson (talk) 23:03, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

This is one of the messier formatting things to do. There are two ways of doing it. I've done it the less obvious way for you. The other way of doing it is to use named references. Name the footnote on the first page using <ref name=blah> </ref> tags around the part that's on the first page. Then on the second page use <ref follow=blah> </ref> tags around that part. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:54, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
I've had a look at the split references on pp 243–245. The way I did that first one on pp 237–238 was too complicated for replication. Have a look at how I've done 243–245 now. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:27, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for your help, I'll follow your advice regarding the page with the illustration. Thanks for your help also with the split references. Hopefully I can get my head around it eventually. With this particular work, it's hard enough just to decipher the scan, so added complications take a bit of the fun out of it, but like everything, once you've got it sorted out in your mind it becomes less of a problem. RonSimpson (talk) 03:32, 30 December 2011 (UTC)


Easier templates[edit]

You can use {{sc}} instead of Small caps, it is qeasier to type.
Also I think you were missing this {{image}} in your tool set (RE:this edit)
Glad to see you contributing have fun :) JeepdaySock (talk) 11:56, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
Many thanks for your help with this and for fixing the missing template. Anything that helps speed up formatting is greatly appreciated. RonSimpson (talk) 22:24, 30 December 2011 (UTC)
I hope that you are not typing in RunningHeader because there is a script that can automatically insert that. I have typed some in but I used rh instead of runningheader —William Maury Morris IITalk 08:47, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Another Formatting problem[edit]

Hi, I've got stuck on page "Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/293". I know I've made a mess of this. This page and quite a few subsequent pages require a kind of table formatting, daily readings of courses & latitudes, which are laid out the same, but differ in dates & daily readings. I'm sure there's an easy way to do this. Just wonder if anyone can give me a few tips about how to do this. As I say, I've made a mess of this page, don't want to do any similar pages until I cna find out how to do it correctly.RonSimpson (talk) 00:52, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
I've had a go for you. Have a look at it, then check out m:Help:Table on meta for an overview of what it means. Come back to me on anything you don't understand and I'll have a go at explaining. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:32, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
Thanks very much for that. The end result is awesome, especially when compared with my feeble effort. I can kind of see how it works, I'll try to get my head around it for the following similar pages, (& I can always cheat by using your work as a template if necessary)! RonSimpson (talk) 22:25, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Unusual macrons[edit]

Hi to anyone who may be able to help. With regard to page Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/46, I've not been able to code this as proofread because I got stuck on creating m and n with macrons to accurately complete the page. I'm still working on this text when time permits.RonSimpson (talk)RonSimpson (talk) 00:22, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Found the missing pages[edit]

Hi, I noticed yesterday that several pages were missing in First Voyage. I've found another copy that has them all and is a clearer scan to read. It's now been swapped in and all the required page adjustments have been made so that no-one has to redo any pages already done. Hopefully, everything will be easier for you now. Best, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:50, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Thanks for your posting and for going to the trouble to load the new scan of First Voyage. It's certainly a vast improvement on the original & it will make life a lot easier. I had actually located a much clearer scan and used it for verification if I found the original too hard to read (which was pretty frequently). The main problem was that not all the pages were available in the alternative so your new copy is greatly appreciated. I'm slowly getting through it, this will give me more incentive to keep going and complete the project. It will also give my aging eyes a bit of a breather. Regards, RonSimpson (talk) 07:27, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi Beeswaxcandle, Just wondering if you can clarify for me. A few pages I've marked as proofread were changed with following note: "

The Wikisource page Page:First Voyage Round the World.djvu/201 has been changed on October 27, 2012 by William Maury Morris II, see http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:First_Voyage_Round_the_World.djvu/201, for the current revision. Editor's summary: /* Not proofread */ one to many spaces between paragraphs and page needs formatting." Early on when I started this revision I was told that the way to make a new paragraph on Wiki is to do two returns at the end of the paragraph. Is this not correct? I'll suspend work on this until I found out, as I don't wish to create further work to correct later on. Regards.. RonSimpson (talk) 23:53, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi Ron, I can see where the confusion has occurred from Cygnis' note further up this page. What you've actually done is use three returns at the end of a paragraph. What Cygnis meant was one return at the end of the last word of the paragraph and one more to create a blank line. Whereas what you thought Cygnis meant was two blank lines between the paragraphs. Now, this is something we do occasionally when the text uses a double height space to indicate a break in thought. See Page:Mike (Wodehouse).djvu/251 for an example where I've done this recently. This is not a biggie and is not a reason to demote the proofreading status of a page. It just gives us an opportunity for gentle education. Do not go back and amend all the pages you've done with the extra line break—this is what the Validation process is for. Alternatively, as this is a purely mechanical process, we can ask for a bot to run through and remove them.

The other issue that WMM2 picked up is a little more important and that's words that are split across a page. If we leave them the way you have when we transclude the text into the main space there will be a space between the hyphen on the first page and the second part of the word on the second page. The way we get around this problem is to use a pair of templates called {{hws}} and {{hwe}}. The abbreviation stands for "hyphenated word start" and "end", but I can't be bothered typing that out each time so I just use the abbreviated form. Say we've got the word "constellation" broken across the page break. At the end of the first page we would type: {{hws|constell|constellation}} and at the top of the second page we would type: {{hwe|ation|constellation}}. For an example of it being used for real have a look at Page:Jane Eyre.djvu/128 and Page:Jane Eyre.djvu/129.

Hope this all makes sense. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:14, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for your explanation of the 2 returns rule. Now I understand, but I don't think that the original note on the subject was very clear which has resulted in an ingrained bad habit which will need a bit of work to break. I wish I'd found out about this a lot earlier in the process! When I've eventually finished correcting as much as I can, my plan was to go back through all pages again anyway, as the new clearer scan means that some names etc. that weren't completely clear in the first scan will be a lot clearer now. The new scan has certainly speeded up the process as the OCRs have a lot fewer errors. I actually used another source to double-check suspect/unclear words from about 6 months ago, but not all the pages were available in that source. Thanks again for the clarification. RonSimpson (talk) 06:05, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
OK, Mpaa has very kindly run his bot over the pages and all the triples are now doubles. I suggest that rather than going back through all the pages again, what we do is transclude the chapters to the mainspace (I'll show you how) and then look for problems there. That way you'll only have to go into the pages which have problems rather than going into every page. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:24, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Beeswaxcandle, Thanks for arranging the bot to sort out the paragraph spacings, that's saved a lot of human hours. I'm back at work now for the week, it will probably be next weekend before I can have another go at all this. Thanks for your help. Is formatting in edit mode simply a matter of pulling the text up by back spacing until all lines are full? Or is there some other way to do this? Regards RonSimpson (talk) 06:47, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Ron, Yes it is a matter of pulling the text up line-by-line, but there is a short-cut for doing this. I think I've managed to add the script to do it to your common.js file. If I've been successful you should see a box on the left hand side titled "scripts" (just underneath the "toolbox"). In it there should be a link called "clean up [x]". If you click this, it will do it automagically for you. Alternatively, you can press shift+alt+x. Let me know if it doesn't work and I'll ask for some help. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:11, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Beeswaxcandle, Thanks for doing this for me, I haven't yet checked it out, I'll do this later in the week, and let you know how I get on, Regards, Ron RonSimpson (talk) 05:44, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi again, I've done a bit of correcting today, but I wasn't able to find the "scripts" box, but could be just that I'm looking in the wrong place when I'm in edit mode. I also tried the shift+alt+x method but it doesn't seem to do the trick. Probably just me though. One thing I noticed is that the pages seem to be correctly formatted if you just correct the last paragraph on the page only, but maybe there's something I'm missing. AT the end of the text Pages i to about xiv are in Portuguese and a bit tricky for a non-Portuguese speaker, I know a few words only of Portuguese. I'll give these a go next though, but it'll probably take a while as it's a word-by-word process, not knowing the language. Regards, RonSimpson (talk) 23:54, 2 November 2012 (UTC)
Whoops. I gave you the script without a box to put it in. I've now put the box there and hopefully the script will now show up. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:21, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Beeswacandle, I found the scripts box, but clicking it doesn't seem to do anything. No drop-downs there, and no formatting seems to have taken place in the pages I tried. BUT, could be me doing something wrong. Regards, RonSimpson (talk) 00:12, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi Beeswax - Just a quick note. I think I've done just about all that I can do with FIRST VOYAGE. I've been through and formatted the last paragraph of every page that seemed to need it, (unfortunately I haven't been able to get the automatic Scripts formatting to work) and also corrected all the hws/hwe formatting that hadn't been done already where words are split between pages. The only pages remaining are pages containing lists and multicolumns which I'm not competent to do (including the index) and the appendix where quite a few pages are in Portuguese, which I've done as well as I can, but there are a lot of seemingly obsolete special characters in those pages (consonants with tildes etc)which I haven't been able to recreate. (Probably needs someone with a bit more than the few words of Portuguese that I can muster to proofread those pages).The vast majority of pages just need validating now. I also discovered that page djvu/194 which should be page 114 is showing page 118. Hope you've had a good Christmas & (will have) a Happy New Year. Regards, Ron. RonSimpson (talk) 01:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Clarification[edit]

Hello, Ron. I just finished writing you a long and nice note with explanations. But there was an "edit conflict" because you and I both saved a message at the same instant so that all I wrote was lost. Statements that I have made when proofreading and/or validating were correct. I learned from my own same mistakes many years ago. Technically you did not make a mistake with the line spacing since you were told wrong or misunderstood. Watch for that hws and hwe that Beeswaxcandle mentions. Also watch for page formatting which is often easy to see in edit mode but more difficult when looking at a finished page and not in edit mode. In edit mode an unformatted page is scrambled and usually very obvious. There are invisible little spaces (aka characters) in an unformatted page. A page can look perfect but in edit mode it will look scrambled. I have been taught to correct that and I finally learned. Contact me anytime on anything. Just click on the word "Talk" on any person's signature including Beeswaxcandle's signature and you will end up in an area like this. Beeswaxcandle mentioned a "bot" that can be used to remove those extra line spaces between paragraphs. I did not know about it but I think it should be used now by whomever knows how to use the thing. It could save you a lot of work. Kindest regards, Maury ( —William Maury Morris IITalk 06:36, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Ron, I would not worry over these little things I have seen because they're nothing, just small little edits. You obviously know the more complicated situations and you handle them well. I just finished validating some of your pages and you proofread text very well! It's just some small formatting that need correcting such as the hws and hwe and removing those extra lines which Beeswaxcandle suggested a "bot" can do. Kindest regards, Maury (—William Maury Morris IITalk 08:02, 27 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Maury, Thanks for your notes and your help in pointing out the problems I've had with First Voyage. I've been blundering on, hoping everything was OK, learning by trial and error, and your help is appreciated. Beeswaxcandle has been patient and helpful with problems that I got stuck on in the past (seems like years) I've been plugging away at this! I've been doing this as time permits, sometimes only a couple of pages (or none) a week, sometimes a bit more. I'm back at work for the week now, and it'll probably be next Friday or Saturday before I have a chance to look at it again. (Actually I prefer doing this to my job, but I have to eat so I need to keep turning up at work). Thanks again, I'll keep nibbling away - now that the bulk has been done, I'm a bit more motivated. RonSimpson (talk) 06:47, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
You are very welcome, Ron. I don't know about what everyone else has experienced but I made a lot of blunders of all kinds when I came here. A tip, do not ever let anyone else use your account! I was logged in and left my computer for awhile and one of my sons "fixed" some things for me and I got into trouble for letting someone else use my account. I thought I was going to be ex-communicated here. So, always keep your account here to yourself and keep your password safe from family and friends. I have no job because I got tired of having a job. I am retired now and I sometimes snack at the computer while roaming around here. "First Voyage"? There is another one? I wonder if those fellows got seasick at any point. I bet they did. I love nautical works and I was in the U S Navy long ago. When new and first aboard a Destroyer we went out to sea for three months before coming into a port in Puerto Rico. I never got seasick (honest!) because I didn't feel like eating. The Chaplain ordered me to eat at least an orange and 5 saltine crackers every day and that wasn't enough food to get seasick. All of the old timers aboard that ship had bets on "when" I would get seasick. They are the ones who told the Chaplain I wasn't eating so I would have to eat and the betting continued. However, and I had never heard of this until it happened, when we put into port in Puerto Rico I started feeling a little bad when I left ship which was still rocking in port and stepped ashore with the guys. I mentioned that I felt just a little bad in the stomach. They started making all sorts of noises and some laughed because I was at that point feeling "land sick!" N one had bet on "land sickness" because it is rare. Most people get seasick. It was like finally getting off a (ship always rocking from side to side and forward and aft at the same time for 3 months) "merry-go-round" where one feels a slight dizziness and a slight sickness in the stomach. My ship eventually took me to Vietnam, the Garden Spot of the Far East. Now, I sit here comfortable and I love working and learning on Wikisource. The administrators here are very nice. I wouldn't remain here if they weren't. I joined Wikipedia in 2006 and learned there was a "Wikisource" that worked with entire books so I have been here on Wikisource since 2009 and I am not tired of Wikisource yet! Many people will abbreviate it as WS and since this is English Wikisource you may see en.WS or en.ws so don't be confused like I was when I first saw those. There is an area called "Scriptorium/Help" where you can go to ask any of us any questions. At lest you won't get seasick nor landsick here! wink Kindest regards, Maury ( —William Maury Morris IITalk 09:20, 28 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Maury, Thanks for the reply and it's nice to learn a bit about you. I also enjoy some of the early explorers' records of their journeys. I found Captain Cook's journals of his trips to Australia and NZ very interesting (living in NZ and learning about his voyages here in school got me interested in the early explorers I guess). One book I'd like to see here on Wikisource is called "Travels in Asia & Africa 1325-1354" by a gent called Ibn Battuta, an Arab mariner and explorer, one of the earliest voyagers. I've also found people here at Wikisource to be friendly and helpful. I'm not much good at the technical side of formatting etc., but I enjoy the proofreading side of it. I live here in Auckland NZ, with my wife (she's from the Philippines) and our 4 year old son. I'm near retirement age (65) kind of old to have a 4 year old, but I'm happy with the situation. I work for the Government (Statistics Department), doesn't pay too well, but we just survive. Thanks again for your help, Regards, Ron.RonSimpson (talk) 05:45, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
I like to get to know people here too. But over the years I have learned little about their background or where they live and many, if not most, use an alias. I have never had a need for an alias although I used to have one long ago. I do not like to use an alias. I too am age 65 and I retired at age 62 because I wanted to and I could. My precious father was going to retire early at age 62 but died of a heart attack from dancing at a Club with Olympic size pool for the summers. Just 2 more months and he would have retired. He worked himself to death and started going to a dance and swim club to keep weight off. Seriously, he was the hardest working man and the most honorable man I have ever known. Like my father, I hold the highest respect for hard-working people but I mean "hard-working" people. Body, Mind, Spirit is my cup of tea. I have followed my father most of my life and worked under his command. The harder (physically) I could worked the better I felt. The harder the task the greater the victory of taking on what others would never do and any mountain, no matter how large, can be chipped away little by little. I was raised this way. It was after my father's death that I decided to retire early. I have had friends get very close but they died so my decision to retire early stems from those sort of things--things the USA Govt counts on. I have learned the nature of people here and especially the administrators regardless of what they don't say but by what they do and how they treat others here. There are no mean administrators on Wikisource. If they were like that I am sure they would get booted out by the community by a democratic voting process. You are always welcome for what help I do or have done. Kindest regards, Maury ( —William Maury Morris IITalk 08:35, 29 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi Maury, Hope you had a Merry Christmas, and also a Happy New Year to come. I note that you've done some more validations - I'm off work until 3rd January, so I've been concentrating on finishing off as much as I can. I've now formatted all the pages I found which seemed to need it, and also corrected the hws/hwe words split between pages that I can find. As I mentioned to Beeswaxcandle, I've done just about all the work I can do on FIRST VOYAGE now. The remaining pages are problematical, or need to be validated by someone other than myself, or are pages containing lists or multicolumn pages which I'm not competent to do, (including the index). Also some of the appendix is in Portuguese, and although I've done my best with it, there are a lot of obsolete special characters that I don't know how to recreate, so somebody with a bit more skill will need to look at those. Also some illustrations to be added. Take care, we've finally got a bit of sunny weather here in Auckland today - it's been pretty wet since Christmas. Regards, Ron RonSimpson (talk) 01:51, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

hints[edit]

Ron, look at this page and notice that the last sentence is not connected to the rest of the text. That tells us that the page is not "formatted". Next, look at that same page in edit mode and the text in there will be scattered which also tells us that the page is not "formatted". This is a very common situation that I myself once had until I learned to spot this situation and how to "format" pages.

This spelling needs to be corrected on the same page-> in tbe space

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:First_Voyage_Round_the_World.djvu/263

--- insert: above Yes check.svg DoneWilliam Maury Morris IITalk 08:02, 31 October 2012 (UTC) ---

The next several pages have the same problem. Look at the last sentence/s and see they do not connect to the rest of the text. This is typical when there is a lot of long-winded text on a page. Again, it is only a matter of formatting the pages. I am willing to assist you in correcting these so you don't have to do all of them. It is 3:29AM here in the USA now so I have to catch some sleep. I have been at this computer most all of yesterday and up until now. Until then if you want assistance contact Beeswaxcandle on his "Talk" page as shown on his signatures here or leave a message on my talk page. Kindest regards, Maury ( —William Maury Morris IITalk 08:29, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Ron, would you please place something on your "User page" -- a dot and save it will do it. I think that will get rid of your name shown in red every time you post something. And Happy Holidays to you and your loved ones, kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 04:16, 29 December 2012 (UTC) .

Please Format page[edit]

Please format your pages after you work with them. —Maury (talk) 22:56, 1 September 2013 (UTC)