89 In 2021, she downloaded and registered with the Giggle App. Her subsequent exclusion from it gave rise to this proceeding, as detailed earlier in these reasons.
(b) Ms Grover
90 Ms Grover is the founder and CEO of Giggle. In her affidavit evidence, Ms Grover states she conceived the idea for the Giggle App following trauma therapy for sexual abuse she had experienced, where the value of a strong support network was emphasised to her, and discussions with her parents, where they agreed a women's only app would be valuable. Following further discussions about what such an app might entail, Ms Grover's father began learning how to develop one. The development process is discussed further below.
91 It was Ms Grover's father who found the AI system, Kairos, that offered a gender detection service by scanning photos of users (see further discussion at [101] below). In relation to the use of this AI in the Giggle App, Ms Grover stated in affidavit evidence:
I believed the discovery of Kairos meant the endeavour to create an App exclusively for women would be possible, at the time I believed it was a perfect way to do it. I did not believe the process Al facial recognition was controversial because it was the digital equivalent of what human beings do every day in perceiving sex, in particular male sex.
At this time, I had absolutely no idea that males could be considered to be women. I had not heard or read anything in the media or on social media about this issue. It had never occurred to me to check if men were considered women in law.
…
I did not consider the use of the word "gender" in the context of its "gender detection feature" to mean anything other than the detection of biological sex.
92 There is some inconsistency between this evidence and her account expressed in a blog post dated 19 July 2020 and titled "I Guess I'm a Terf Then – part II", which was admitted into evidence as an annexure to Ms Tickle's affidavit without objection. The term TERF in the title is an acronym for Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In the blog, Ms Grover says that she had "fought for trans women's rights during the early days of Giggle's development" and that "When other [Giggle] team members were saying "NO!" I was saying, "Come on! It's 2020! What are you thinking!?" In the blog post, she clarifies that she had intended "transitioned" transgender women to be granted access to the Giggle App, but not "self-ID only" transgender women. It is not entirely clear what is meant by both terms, though I infer "transitioned" transgender women to mean those who have undertaken sexual reassignment surgery, and "self-ID" transgender women to refer to those who have not. As Ms Grover describes in the blog post, in around June 2020 Giggle had adopted a view that no transgender women should
