User talk:CharlesSpencer

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Hello, CharlesSpencer, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Again, welcome! — Cygnis insignis (talk) 13:59, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


Thank you for your help with the United States Statutes at Large! That’s a project in need of contributors, and all assistance is very greatly appreciated. Don’t sweat the details on formatting at this point; just getting the raw page text proofread is 90% of the battle. Just curious, why volume 33? Doing research on the early 1900s? :-) Tarmstro99 (talk) 17:15, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

My pleasure. It's purely accidental, in fact: Judge Kilbreth (who was Collector of Customs for NY/NJ from 1893 to 1897 when he died in office), and whose estate is discharged by Chapter 721 of Vol 33, was my great grandfather, and I had no idea that he had a private act of Congress in his name. I found the link on Google (and, I'm ashamed to say, thereby learnt of the very existence of Wikisource!) and felt that the least I could do was correct the OCR and proofread. Then my curiosity (and pride) was piqued by seeing how well formatted the earliest pages of Vol.1 were, and asked myself how I could do the same... I think I understand transclusion conceptually, but I'm blowed if I understand where the formatting is viewable/copiable from for US statutes... CharlesSpencer (talk) 08:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

In Page: namespace, use header/footer[edit]

On the US legislative pages, you are ending up with a double sidenote. I had a go at one page in the Page: namespace and moved the {{sidenotes begin}} into the header, and {{sidenotes end}} into the footer, and that seems to have done the trick United States Statutes at Large/Volume 33/Fifty-Eighth Congress/Private Acts of the Second Session‎. -- billinghurst (talk) 03:48, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

So that's what was causing that! Thanks. CharlesSpencer (talk) 16:37, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Procs. & similar[edit]


I hope I didn't wind up making more work for you by touching up those Presidential Procs. from Vol. thirty-three. I came across an orphaned and mis-named Proclamation issued by Roosevelt and it was only by chance that it turned out to be from the same Volume you seem to be working on. Anyway, once I pinned down the post-1936 numbering scheme for what Volume 33 shows as Proclamation No. 5, I gave fixing the content up a shot to see if I could learn that crazy thing. It worked just fine when all the content was on one djvu page to begin with but I gave up on trying to transclude something that spans more than one page (like Proclamation 503 does) and still have that source tab pop up at the same time.

Set me straight, if you have the chance, on this multi-page thing as well as anything else I might need to know moving forward. Thanks. George Orwell III (talk) 17:28, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

George, ANYONE who's prepared to help with a bit of proofreading of Vol. 33 is welcome in my view! I am not, I'm afraid, an expert on transclusion, so I can't really be sure that I can help. The multi-page stuff I've done is literally just a series of single page transclusion commands strung together, like here. I do know that there's an experimental transclusion structure that takes multiple pages as arguments, but it would probably take me a while to track it down again... I think I've also mis-named my directory structure, so that Tarmstro99's Statutes at Large header doesn't work properly - I should have used 58th, not Fifty-eighth! The only clever multi-page thing I've discovered so far is ((Hyphenated word start)) and ((Hyphenated word end)) as in pages 1089 and 1090 where the word Township breaks across the page end like this: ((Hyphenated word start|town|township)) ((Hyphenated word end|ship|township)) - notice that the template supplies the hyphen for you. Does that help at all? Oh, and the numbering for the proclamation that you found - is that a Library of Congress linear numbering system or something? Thanks. Kind regards, CharlesSpencer (talk) 15:55, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Saw your comments, so I have had a look at the setup for multi-pages.
  • Section markers need to bracket your text on a page, so when using section begin at the start of the text on the page, and section end where it needs to end. In this scenario, start and end on 1019, nothing required on 1020 (as whole pages don't need sections), and start and end on 1021. Which gives you the output at User:CharlesSpencer/503.
  • Note that sidenotes go left and right which can look ugly (like a saw), so I have a very crude workaround using {{force sidenote}} which shows the sidenotes as set in Page environment, then when transcluded it forces them to the one side.
Anyway, if you need some guidance, fell welcome to ask. billinghurst (talk) 16:38, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
O.K. - that's a good start but not exactly what I had in mind. First off - side notes & similar are a symptom of the publication -- not the original issuance or the authorization/approval in itself. While I completely agree side notes are almost always a must when appearing under some context, sub-page(s) or sub-division(s) within the Statute at Large Volume project(s), they are "technically" not authored nor approved by the President in any way, shape or form as far as I know. Having them transcluded along to articles or works outside of the publication and into other bodies of work is not always desirable, though admittedly, can be useful as a supporting tool in certain narrow applications I suppose.
The "feature" I had envisioned here was that Source tab automatically appearing at the top which would lead back to the validated (or Proofread?) page when clicked. At least I thought I saw it work like that somehow. At any rate - I'm all for consolidating and complimenting efforts whenever it makes sense to and this duplicate publication of Proclamations in particular makes it an inevitability even without the current numbering scheme in place...
though bringing all the existing Executive Orders up to a uniform level to match the missing or out-of-print ones getting discovered and being added wouldn't hurt moving things along on the Proclamation front either (HINT HINT bot requests)  ;) George Orwell III (talk) 20:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Oopsie. Will see what time I have tomorrow. billinghurst (talk)

You'll have me out of a job[edit]

Nice to see things are happening with the template. I am around if you need me, either leave me a note on my talk page, or come into IRC, channel #wikisource (/join #wikisource) — billinghurst sDrewth 10:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Was going to mention the use of some parameters that are non-essential for a template, and you may not wish to have them appear when left empty, then you would code them with a pipe, eg. {{{parameter|}}}. You can also nest parameters in the same way {{{parameter1|{{{parameter2|{{{1}}}}}}}}} where you would use either p1, p2, or the first $1 parameter. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:56, 8 April 2010 (UTC)


bing bongbillinghurst sDrewth 11:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

to embed another template[edit]

To look how I have used a template as a basis and a build, have a squiz at {{IrishBio ref}} — billinghurst sDrewth 14:12, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

Long time no see[edit]

Hi. I hadn't noticed you back. My bad. Just noticed that you had been using a paragraph lead with {{gap}}. The community has previously addressed and determined that it was outside the guide for editing, and preferring the double line break of a new paragraph. Described in WS:Style guide. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:32, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst:Oops! I had better change that then! Thanks for the tip. CharlesSpencer (talk) 09:33, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
@Billinghurst:Potentially double oops! Should I also be editing out the <p style="text-indent:{{{ti|2.00em}}};"> from my Template:USStatPension template would you say? All of US the US Statutes at large use a particular style of pagination, so I had worked on the principle that it was worth preserving. Do you agree?CharlesSpencer (talk) 10:12, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
I ran a bot through to cleanse the gap template from the work. For US Statutes, if it was added for a particular reason/purpose then we have always allowed variation for purpose, so it can stand. If it needs a clean up, you just need to ask a bot operator to assist. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:49, 25 September 2016 (UTC)
I am pretty sure that I copied it from Tarmstro or one of the other major US Statutes at Large editors who have used it widely across the USStat project. Since it appears to be received formatting, I think I'll leave well alone. Thanks. CharlesSpencer (talk) 22:12, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

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