User talk:Cygnis insignis

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"And if he move his dwelling-place, his heavens also move
Where'er he goes & all his neighbourhood bewail his loss . . ."

Clever? witty? wonkish and droll?
All true—perhaps—but I think: more
Than these. . . From all that's met my eye—
A Part of that Immortal Sky.[1]



(no response necessary) Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:40, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Hello 'London' :) CYGNIS INSIGNIS 23:36, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Please add images to Index:Just so stories (c1912).djvu[edit]

Could you please add images to Page:Just_so_stories_(c1912).djvu/274 and Page:Just_so_stories_(c1912).djvu/275 of the above so that it can be validated. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 01:33, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Kathleen, I went ahead & edited/uploaded said images (see their rendering, if acceptable). I could have done a better job editing (time constraints), but they are ready for validation nonetheless... AKA Londonjackbooks 13:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC) Updated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you and question[edit]

Thanks, Cygnis for your help getting me started. I have added a bunch of pages with apparent success.

Question: Is there a way to quote chapter AND VERSE when referencing one of the Bible collections? I am using this form: Bible_(King_James)/Hosea#Chapter_9 which gets me to the chapter. But I haven't found any magic incantations for citing specific verses within the chapters. I see that there is a (verse|chapter=2|verse=1) tag for each verse. I have searched through archives from years past about various revisions to how chapters and verses are tagged. But I haven't found any current "here's how to do it" information about how to cite them. Can you point me in the right direction to discover how to do this? Thanks again. Rcrowley7 (talk) 21:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Use of {{gap}} inside {{block center}} to prevent line-wrap.[edit]

Hello Cygnis insignis.

I notice you have cleverly made use of a dummy trailing {{gap|6em}} on the first line of poetry inside a {{block center/s}} to inhibit line-wrapping two or three lines later, e.g. Page:An argosy of fables.djvu/509.

I have taken the liberty of modify/validating the page to add the effect of "semi-embedding" the graphic capital; and have experimented to find the minimum {{gap|xem}} which will still work...

However, the question remains: Why does this work? I would have thought the same effect should come about by adding a width specification to the {{block center}}, but this simply does not seem to work!

So credit where it is due to you for figuring this out. I repeat, though: Do you know how it works?

Cheers, MODCHK (talk) 08:08, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


Considering you have been mostly inactive both on here and Wikipedia, you are probably retired. But I though I should ping you anyway: I am pushing forward some work on the rest of Index:Father's_memoirs_of_his_child.djvu, since the whole book hasn't ever been transcribed in whole, elsewhere (only the intro about Blake). Hope you are well, Sadads (talk) 15:44, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Recreating Index:Book of record of the time capsule of cupaloy (New York World's fair, 1939).djvu[edit]

You deleted it a long time ago, per user request, but it seems to be within the scope of the project and I am interested in transcribing it. Hope this will not be a problem. Phillipedison1891 (talk) 19:11, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


Its good to see you around again. Moondyne (talk) 00:39, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

It sure is. Hesperian 01:02, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Cheers, glad to find you both still active here. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 03:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
+1 — billinghurst sDrewth 04:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Ta. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 04:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
+2 :) Captain Nemo (talk) 05:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC).
+3! — George Orwell III (talk) 20:27, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
@Captain Nemo:@George Orwell III: Thanks. I saw your welcomes and forgot to reply, sorry about that. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 07:24, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back[edit]

Was patrolling RC yesterday and spotted your name, so I've been trying to think if there are any new templates that would be interesting to you. The main one I can think of is {{fqm}}, which has proved to be handy for hanging punctuation on the left side of poems. It behaves nicely with {{block center}}, which has had a few mods to allow absolute widths on the /s version as well as the ordinary one. The other new templates that might be useful to you are {{FI}} and {{FIS}} for freeing images. I haven't got my head around these completely yet, but Ineuw and George have been using them in various applications. The other major change in my main interest area is the addition of a score extension to allow the rendering of music scores using either Lilypond or ABC. If you come across any score fragments in your works either drop me a note or tag the page with {{missing score}} and I'll get to it. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi, good to hear from you! That is very helpful to know, ta very much for those links. The missing score work sounds like a great idea, as does the extension; I see an enormous benefit in adding music scores here. I'm still trying to remember how to add stuff, but will have a look at developments when I do. Cheers, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 09:30, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Outside of transcriptions, were we using {{authority control}} back then? I don't think that we were. Linked to this, probably the biggest change is Wikidata: and how we now have our long wished for centralised data place, and can pull metadata, including links, images, etc., which means with some of our creating/updating of author templates we can auto-populate. Much of the power of that automated data is really still to come, and we still haven't been the best denizens there populating our data/knowledge. Toolserver has been replaced by toollabs:, and is a significantly improved and supported set of toys, and it has allowed for an explosion of tools that can allow us to query and detect, and again, some have been designed for us, others sit off wikidata, or are set for other wikis, though can be manipulated for our use (sort of). Elsewhere Bugzilla was replace by Phabricator:, and it is a better tool. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:27, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Billinghurst. I 'm still dusting off the cobwebs, remembering the tips, tricks and workflows. I noticed authrty cntrl being rolled out at en.wp, I will try to grasp how it is being used here. Having metadata available at WD must be very useful, I will ping you the next time I create an Author page so you show me what is what. I used to imagine something like a single accession form for works, grabbing information from the source (e.g. and elsewhere (citation generators), which could be used to populate the templates at Commons and here with [amendable] bibliographic data. So what you are telling seems like good news, and that this is possible or being done. Could I, for example, use the url of a page here to generate a citation at wikipedia? My tools are blunted and rusty, I will poke around to see what documentation and examples are around. Cheers, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 05:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Okay, that reminds me that we now have the namespace Module: which is for LUA coding, which is more efficient and powerful than template coding, though also more complex. It drives numbers of new templates like AC, and the Wikibase scripts. The usage of the data at WD back to the respective wikis has been slow, as can be expected while data is collated, tools built, confidence gained, people educated. Primarily, it has been building the one to one relationship, though the extension of arbitrary access is now becoming more widely available. I am unaware what has been done in the citation space at enWP. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:01, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: I found a good example for me to try and grasp what is going on with WD and (chillingly named) Authority Control template: I made a new page for Author:Dugald Stewart Walker, and want wikidata to recognise it should (or could) be linked to commons and wikipedia. The template did fill the template with his birth/death dates when I opened the edit window, but getting the sister links to display is what I am not seeing. Ideally I would hope that the article shows there is a non-empty author page here too, no matter whether that is in the side bar or jostling for advertising space in footer. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 09:00, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Apologize for speaking out of turn:) The story behind WD in a nutshell: it is the place to store the data about an author (or a work, or anything). The name and the lifespan are stored locally at wikisource, the rest (including gender, sister links, interwikis, image, viaf and lots of libraries ids, etc) is stored at wikidata. Two templates pull data back from wikidata (if available): "author" itself and "authority control". If the wikidata item for a person exists and has enough information already then one and only one thing is required to make our templates work properly: add the link to wikisource author page into the wikidata item. I have done it for Author:Dugald Stewart Walker, follow the wikidata link on this author's page and you can see the link back to wikisource there. Hope that helps. I leave the story of what to do if there is no wikidata item for an author for billinghurst to tell:) Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 10:49, 4 October 2015 (UTC).
Knowledge is knowledge, whomever has it.

To pull the data from WD, there needs to be an association b/w the WD and WS author page, which is done at WD by adding the EN ... Author:(pagename) [and it should show up in a lookup]. SAVE! This enables the header template to know its ID and have a direct relationship, and then pull the pertinent xwiki links, image link, and templated data. If no WD, then generally create one, though suggest a few searches to look for names as other WSes, and xxWP enables a broader data set. If you need scripts to help there I think that they load from m:User:Billinghurst/global.js though there are some local gadgets too. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you both, that was what I needed to know. While I have your attention, he is something to ponder: here is a title page that attributes the translation to Author:A. E. Johnson, I don't 'know' who that is and was my own search was inconclusive. One of you moved that author page to it's full name (for whatever reason), but I don't know how that conclusion was reached; PG says it is by him and, consequently, so do many other sites. Maybe it is by Alfred Johnson, though I did find another plausible possibility (well, more intriguing) … anyway, my point is not to quibble about this example, but suggest that it is better to be hesitant about attribution. Thank you both again for your time, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:22, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
In re Author:A. E. Johnson. It was the default source of data about an author and thus unmentioned -- viaf record. If you have any info that points to another person please post it on the talk page - everyone is happy to see viaf wrong:) at least from time to time. Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 23:50, 5 October 2015 (UTC).

Stockton Talk page arrangement proposal[edit]

If you agree, I would like to arrange Frank Richard Stockton's Talk page in this way. I am basically copying the arrangement used by Hesperian at the Henry James author page. I have researched Stockton's works, and have filled in some blanks and removed some redundancies. Feel free to tweak if you have suggestions. I am not necessarily sure if the works listed under "non-fiction" are actually all non-fiction, or if they should go under another section title. It didn't seem appropriate to place them under novels or story collections. I don't know... [add: "Individual stories" section would eventually be organized somehow, whether by date or alphabetically; which do you think?) Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:55, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I can't fault that approach, it is very clear. I've done it other ways too ... a response to different situations; maybe more biblio. info. when things are complicated. I read somewhere that Stockton's stories were rearranged under new titles, using that source was a good idea. The story about the Minor Canon was the first I read by Stockton, the best in that recent anthology. The editor said that reading the Lady and the Tiger is compulsory, or something like that. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 13:51, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I'll make the change. Feel free to make any other changes as you see fit. I created Stockton's author page back in 2012, but I can't remember why. I assumed it had to do with a Coates connection—they are both Philadelphians (at least he was born there)—but that is the only link I have discovered recently. May have just been a random add. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Index:Australian legendary tales.djvu to get to be FT?[edit]

What are your thoughts about getting this work validated so we can nominate it as a featured text? It

  • is referenced at WP and I think that it could be more in the articles about Australian fauna;
  • has quite a few internal links to the author and her work among the folklore works that we currently host;
  • contains ogg files (imported from Librivox), which gives an added feature;
  • has an element of difference.

If you don't think that it has, then I won't push to get it validated. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:17, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

What I saw looked pretty schmick, and I agree with your reasons for having it promoted. My own copy is edited and illustrated by others (old, though probably copyright protected), but I was interested in the volumes you added and see some ways they could be referenced at WP. After reading the Lang intro I found some recent articles in journals that reference this edition too. I noticed that you found the contemporary references and review, but have a inkling there are more links to be found. Do we review the audio-book material as part of the package, or just note that it's available? I'm looking for a diversion and would be happy to do a careful second proofread of this, though I know others who would get it letter perfect. Are there any recurring problems with the text layer, or anything else I should look out for? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 07:52, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
I was just noted the chapters with {{listen}}, though maybe the template could do with some sort of warning about separately sourced, and not part of the validation process. With regard to OCR issues, some 'o' and 'ol' came through as 'd', and there are some 'ä' components 'mäh' where the diereses disappear. I did a search for the unframed word based on page: ns and didn't find any issues, but that could be a search fail. To note that the subsequent book has brälgah though I didn't see that in this version, though I may have missed it. If SF proofreads, then please review, their proofreading lacks thoroughness at times. I think that I got my title formatting consistent, though fresh eyes is good. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:12, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and the (hanging) indents. I did shrink pages, and look with my mobile, but they always need separate review. Noting that I plan to read (enjoy?) as an epub this week, so that may highlight some issues to me. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:16, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Quick note that when you get to the poetry (pages 108-109, 123), you can eliminate the non-breaking spaces by using {{fqm}} as an alternate option. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:25, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


Well done! Did I miss that? Or have you got some good source material? Have you some pointer to some sort of biographical information, and I will see what my genie resources are able to help me uncover. — billinghurst sDrewth 16:33, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Look again mate CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:43, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: So, did you find what I found out? And yes, I think it would be a good text for FT :) I guess I could get the nomination underway, unless you were inclined to.CYGNIS INSIGNIS 12:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
That is like two weeks ago, I cannot remember back that far beyond external sources did support. I am pretty sure that I updated things here and commons for both works when I got back from the States. Go ahead and nominate, I am stuck in other things, and with a backlog that would equal the number the rail sleepers between you and me. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:55, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Apology: it was an oblique way of advertising the short article I cobbled together for ye. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 13:29, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Words escape[edit]

What is the word or phrase used when significant (relatively speaking) mention is made within a text of a certain person, topic, etc.? What I want to do is make reference in "Works about" sections of author pages to the portions of For Remembrance that are dedicated to individual "soldier poets"—but I'm not sure how to write up the entries. Something like:

*[[For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war/Chapter 2#Julian Grenfell|Biographical info]] in ''For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war'' (1920) by A. St. John Adcock.

I am anchoring the portions of text that make mention of each poet. Should I use the word "Reference" or "Passage" in place of "Biographical info" in the entry? or some other word/phrase? or should I not even bother to add such entries?

Also, if I may get your opinion with regard to what I should be linking to within the text. There are numerous cases within this text that I could add links to (note page 12), but I am hesitant. Should I instead only focus on linking to cases related to the soldier-poets and their works? I also hesitate to use redlinks for the reason that future WS adds might use different naming conventions (case, etc.), leaving a link red even though the author/work might otherwise be available. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Notable, at wikipedia.
Notable at wikipedia instead? I add things to 'works about' in the hope it becomes noted there, making the section here redundant (which it often is).
so maybe … Chapter 2#Julian Grenfell|Biographical note
I use links to page numbers, not anchors, and hope someone will ask me why one day.
  • [Asking; prompted by this, which reminded me of this conversation. Seems you had hinted of this at another time as well. Too late to ask? Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:45, 24 April 2018 (UTC)]
With respect—this is fundamentally a wiki—if you don't create a cross-reference (link)— and do (/not?) get it reverted, then how do you know if you have created something worthy of (communal) note? Deep Philosophy cf. narcissisism 101? 03:57, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
I do not understand what you are saying. Feel free to (/not?) explain at my Talk page. Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:47, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
That verse could link to The Steel Glass, provoking someone to add it. I try to remember to search on titles I create, I'm sure others will enjoy making those links too. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 21:58, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Removed anchors, will use page numbers. I originally linked to The Steel Glass—along with many other links—but went back and deleted them, as I was becoming exasperated by all the possibilities. For now I will focus my linking efforts on the soldier-poets and their works so I remain motivated to proofread. I may go back later and embellish. Thanks much, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Didn't check the history. I usually link titles, occasionally authors (works, not biography) if strongly supported by context. I don't like distraction when reading, who does? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 23:32, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
"Strongly supported by context" is good guidance, thanks. Distraction is partly why I haven't yet completed The nature and elements of poetry. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:08, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
What a great example, you ought to feel pretty satisfied with that. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 05:02, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
But for links such as—

This child's heart detected "poetry, poetry everywhere!"

But those are rare. I am otherwise satisfied. Encouragement certainly helps... Just a few pages a day would go a long way to seeing it completed. Couple months maybe. Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:04, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Life among the Apaches progress[edit]

Thank you for your help with Life among the Apaches! I was looking at the progress bar on the main page, and it suggests that the book is mostly green, nearly fully verified. But that's not true. Actually, about 90 pages of 322 have been verified. Shouldn't that bar show the book is about 1/3 verified? --Outlier59 (talk) 01:24, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

The stripe only shows the progress of the pages shown on that page, not the whole work. I feel that is misleading, if it is understood at all by the user. My workaround is to make it true, and proofread or validate the whole thing :) CYGNIS INSIGNIS 01:54, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Chesterton's William Blake edition, etc.[edit]

Just came across this listing... This is the exact copy of the Chesterton book that I bought, read and sold (almost 2 years ago). Merely a curiosity now since I no longer own it, but do you have any knowledge about whether it is a first edition or not based on the images? and if a book has "presentation copy" stamped (perforated) on the inside, what does that mean? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:48, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

This is the third scan of a w:presentation copy I have seen in the last week, along with the Wilde thing you saw and a Carroll novelty that I was proofreading. These copies are worth seeking out for transcription because the printing plates are new, the pages are probably all there, it hasn't been used a lot, and any scribbling is restricted to the first couple of pages. The absence of a printing history could mean that a book is a first edition, I think I have that right, whether it is a genuine presentation copy of that could be determined by examination, comparison and provenance. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 06:47, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Sartor resartus[edit]

Ah, you're back! I have proofread a bit from the work (starting from page 195 if you wish to review). I prepped the remaining pages (not proofread) just to replicate your headers to make the task of proofreading quicker... but since you are back, I'll leave it to you. Welcome back, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:46, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Tak. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Reasons help[edit]

Please don't return to the actions of just reverting. We all have and can change, and hopefully we can all be less strident in our approach. Reverting without comment is always less than useful, so when you undo, please add a comment about what and why. How can anyone understand without an explanation. How can the next person understand. These are all our works, and the style guide gives guidance about replicating, so some will replicate; if they are not to replicate knowing why is informative. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:20, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Indeed ... my edit summary should have requested that you use an edit summary. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:34, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Essays in miniature[edit]

is validated, but for two pages I have proofread. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Amazing! It is good to know that you have brought your care and attention to the work. Thanks again for bringing the author to my attention. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 03:52, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Glad to... Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:45, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Question. Do you know what the date is that we are able to upload/transcribe 1923 works? Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:20, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Best that you ask that of someone else. Was there something in particular you were to hoping to bring here? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:43, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Couple things on the top of my list: Battle-Retrospect (Yale Series of Younger Poets) by Amos Niven Wilder: He was acquainted with Coates, and is also brother of Thornton Wilder. Second, the updated Poems (Complete edition) of Alice Meynell (also knew Coates) which include her later poems. The first would be easy enough for me to scan; the second, I may have to wait for someone else to eventually upload it. I'll check at the Scriptorium for the date; I thought it was 2018 or 19 but not sure exactly. If you tried to check for me, thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
This was a nice read by Wilder... His later work on theology/theopoetics, etc. is way over my head, though I try to understand it. He was young when he knew Coates, as she died when Wilder was about 32. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:12, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Ideas of Good and Evil[edit]

Not sure how I should handle this. I just came across a versions page you created some time ago which highlights pieces/topics about William Blake. I have uploaded Yeats' work of the same title, and so I believe I should convert the versions page to a disambiguation page, but am not sure how to handle the Blake info. Due to the disambiguation, should I title the Yeats work Ideas of Good and Evil (Yeats)? Thanks for any direction, Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:37, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

My "sloppy dab" is evidently just wrong. I had the idea that Yeats had also 'edited' Blake's text and used the title that Gilchrist assigned to it. Unravelling the tangle of published Blake texts with versions and dabs was a big job, I attempted to implement a working model as a tentative solution. In this case a plain disambiguation, with (Yeats) and (Blake) appended to the title, seems like a good plan. I started to put this into effect, but now see I need to review the arrangements and incoming links to avoid making work for your good self. This page may provide some clarification as to how unclear the whole business is. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 08:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
I see what you mean. I will then leave the untangling to your good self as you have more intimate knowledge of William whatshisname and the subtleties of his work than I. Sorry to put more on your plate, Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Flora Hongkongensis[edit]

This doesn't really qualify for speedy deletion under G1, since it is not a test edit, obvious nonsense, or vandalism. Rather it is the transcluded table of contents (with header and categorization) from a PD source supported by a DjVu file. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:34, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I thought that was the closest thing, very little meaningful content, thus the elaboration in the reasoning section of the template; I believe there are precedents for similar. If you want to decline it as sdelete, would you mind opening a discussion at the appropriate forum. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 07:09, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
When sdelete is declined, all that is needed is to have the reason added to the work's associated talk page. I have done this.
If you wish to start a deletion request, you may certainly do so. However, content supported by a suitably uploaded source file at Commons is not likely to be deleted. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:52, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


Thanks for that. I was waiting things out for a time, for my first "undo" alerted the vandal which provoked a return to the scene of the crime. I placed notice at the noticeboard; waiting to see how it is handled for future reference. Wondering specifically how each foul edit is remedied. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:06, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Godwin's version of the Swiss Family Robinson[edit]

I got your response. That's great. Why don't we start adding it now? I don't have a copy myself, but other editors might be able to add it. It can be purchased from Penguin Books. 21:57, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

I tried to find a scan, without success, but discovered a few interesting facts about those volumes (translated from the French version, apparently). A facsimile edition could be scanned and uploaded, but any new material (notes, prefaces and so on) would need to be excluded. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 22:17, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
The penguin version is a reprint. 22:21, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
I will keep an eye out for that, it would be nice to have it here. BTW, I noticed you posted a query about The Mysterious Island, there is another version that needs finishing at this scan index. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 22:26, 26 February 2016 (UTC)
All right. If it will be helpful, there is appears to be a copy at amazon [1]. I will try to finish the scan concerning the Mysterious Island. Perhaps I will create an account here. 22:30, 26 February 2016 (UTC)


Why did you put (incomplete) at Candle_of_Vision with no explanation? Every word is there. I'm removing it. -calebjbaker (talk) 05:34, 9 March 2016 (UTC)


Repplier matters[edit]

Hoping I haven't stepped on your toes, but I went ahead and added the list of individual essays (public domain) you mentioned you were considering adding to the author page. I should have asked what was meant by "was", but did not. If you feel the addition is an "oppression of essays", being too long, feel free to delete the list. I also added title redirects to the proofread essays (with the exception of "The Benefactor" and "Ghosts" (redlinked; "Ghosts" is included in a different ed. of Essays in Miniature)). Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:52, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I think it is a useful thing to have and saw some other titles I will add sometime. I was trying to ignore a problem I found, unrelated to this list. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 08:44, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
OK, good... Not sure if you are aware (or interested), but Agnes Repplier: Lady of Letters (1949) is available at IA (not necessarily to upload, but to read/reference). It contains some background information on her essays. I have purchased a hard copy for myself, for I dislike reading online. Apparently, the University of Pennsylvania has (or had) an extensive bibliography compiled by the same author which includes a more comprehensive list of essays/articles. I may follow up on that... I have found "Living in History" to validate. I will search Points of friction further to see if it contains any more essays relating to/mentioning WWI—or 'peace' and 'war' in general. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:24, 15 March 2016 (UTC)
I am interested in that biography, thanks, and think it worthwhile expanding the article at the other place. As a more recent introduction to Repplier says, "She is one of those almost-forgotten women writers about whom their contemporary commentators so often say, maddeningly, something like, 'Her work is so well known that I hardly need say much about it.'" [2]

I prefer reading hard copy too, but most of what I read is on my antique screen. Books can be be purchased very cheaply, but shipping to my address is a greater cost than the item itself. Reading and referencing scans is hard work, though some are more useful for having an ocr text layer I can search.

She was in favour of the United States joining the conflict in Europe, a recurring theme in her works, so you might find more of her pro patria views on peace and war in essays published during the period before the US sent troops. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 06:43, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

I can see how Repplier and the Coates' would have been friends. Similar outlook, yet different natures. Walt Whitman refers to Repplier and the Coates' in With Walt Whitman in Camden several times, stating in one instance how ["impertinent"] Repplier and her "crowd" would not be able to comprehend Leaves of Grass (being "smart ... merely intellectual"—characteristics to which he was apparently averse); he was surprised at the "friendliness of the Coateses", however (attributing it to their Quaker heritage)... Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:12, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
Was Florence a Quaker?
Missed the question... Yes. On her mother's side. I can not remember if her father was likewise. I do not believe Florence was practicing. She may have been Episcopalian. She attended the Convent of the Sacred Heart in Paris (Catholic). I can safely say she was Christian. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:23, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I begin training for volunteer work at a library. It will be good to get back in the game. Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:01, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
But you already are a volunteer at a library, and I'm not sure it can spare you. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 10:55, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
Minimal hours, temporary position (for now) for a library "in a pickle". Seasons may change, but I do not intend to be a stranger here. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:07, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
Working in real world library is a pleasurable thing to do (are you saying that you have done that before?), I'm sure they will also discover that your efforts are invaluable. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:42, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
Always as a volunteer. I like to say I "played" librarian. Self-taught, untrained. My specialty was taking rooms full of uncatalogued books and turning them into fully automated libraries. First at our church, and then at our children's school (especially sweet position). Some day I would like to pursue a degree in Library Sciences. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:13, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

I have begun reading Repplier's biography, and I added some evidence for an 1855 birth year at w:Talk:Agnes Repplier. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:06, 19 March 2016 (UTC)

I've been flipping through the bio, especially the section 'The War and After'. The volume you uploaded, 'Counter-Currents', is also discussed along the way. I don't know why the later source thinks her reported age was is in doubt; Stokes did made some impertinent enquiries, though I suppose that there must be people who are born on the first of that month. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 22:10, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
Have to admit that I also found some travel sources at that report her birth year to be 1858 and one at 1859. But all of the "official" sources—death cert., passport applications (in her handwriting, from what I can tell), etc.,—give 1855. Who knows, she may have misrepresented her age a few times. It has been done. She is buried at St. John the Evangelist Catholic Church in Philadelphia—I believe in a family 'vault'. I may be paying a visit to the city in the future, and will stop by St. John's for pics—if her b/d years are viewable. P.S. I always assumed you had some background in library work, no? Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:38, 19 March 2016 (UTC)
Somewhat unproductive update: "FAMILY VAULT OF THE BROTHERS REPPLIER" is all that is engraved where Agnes is buried at St. John the Evangelist Catholic Church in Phila. No specific names or b/d dates for family members are given. Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:08, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
Unless you undertook a midnight dig into the family vault, I don't see how you could have been more thorough. Perhaps the entry 1922 Encyclopædia Britannica/Repplier, Agnes is the source of the confusion, the mention of that (the confusion) by Walker, et al. (1988) makes it notable (a secondary source). I'm not sure how to improve this in the article at the other place (maybe a footnote to a reference :) CYGNIS INSIGNIS 07:12, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
Yeats might hold a midnight seance—but authority would be questionable. Footnotes, etc. ... I would have done well to follow your example (or a variation) when working on Childe Harold. Were I to take up Don Juan (a Repplier childhood read), I would have to rethink my reference/footnote method. Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:39, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
There would be several problems with that invocation: summoning Yeats in his realm, persuading him to make a long distance call to Repplier, her being embarrassed at the ungentlemanly question and most of all, given her acerbic views on spiritualism, by actually being available to respond. There is a citation template that will transclude these transcendent references, though it has a bug (or feature) that interferes with its display when accessed by unbelievers.

I was recently pleased to discover I could link to your transcripts of Byron, and many other texts besides, causing me to be more optimistic about finding more than the first few pages of the work residing under a title. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:45, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

smiley Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:32, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
That's a relief! I thought my screen had a dead pixel …

Just received a copy of Stokes' "extensive bibliography" of Repplier's "Contributions to Periodicals" from the University of Pennsylvania Library—45 pages of handwritten notes (legible) from 1947. The list is not in any sort order. I am on page 1 and have already found some inaccuracies. I have created a spreadsheet based on the bibliography (to include links to online sources). "Extensive", but perhaps not complete. We'll see, and we'll see how far I get. Have not yet decided how/if I will add titles to Repplier's author page. It may be too oppressive. But I did come across "A Guide to Ghost Seeing; or, Every Man His Own Medium" ;) Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:56, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Very good of them to make that available to you. If you persist with the spreadsheet it would be useful to make the your work available somewhere. It is a shame that google is not allowing me access to that article, sounds amusing. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 14:44, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
"A Guide to Ghost seeing & etc.": Among large store of shorter contributions Repplier made to Life magazine. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:24, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Cheers! CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Just found this at page 115 of the Stokes memoir: "In October 1893, Agnes Repplier wrote to Morris:

"Will you write a story— a very short biographical notice for me for Scribner's Book Buyer, to accompany my picture which I have consented to send them? You need not say civil things, and I fancy you are already in possession of the few meagre facts. Born in Philadelphia—French extraction*—(That sounds well, and excuses a great deal). Thirty-six [actually thirty-eight], last April—(This hideous detail might be softened vaguely)". CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:41, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Agnes Repplier and Robert
Thanks! I am only at p. 81. Is the bit in brackets by Repplier or added by Stokes? Do I take it she was sensitive about her age ("hideous detail")? or am I reading it wrong? The "Agnes Repplier" sketch was published in the Book Buyer in January 1894 (written by Morris). Omitted is any mention of her age, or the appearance of a picture. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
Oh! I actually overlooked that one parenthetical remark was in square brackets, which I now see as his editorial comment (so not an admission from her). I read the 'hideous detail' of her real age as being exaggerated coyness, deployed for humorous effect, comparable to a melodramatic comment, spoken with an affected lisp, by self-caricaturing 'artistic types'. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:58, 5 April 2016 (UTC)

Yet another possible contradiction by sources, this time in the attribution for the accolade "Our Dean of essayists". This was the title of a piece on Repplier by Mary Ellen Chase in Commonweal (1933), as cited in a chapter of Sisterly Love: Women of Note in Pennsylvania History. I've been skimming through the memoir by her niece, which was linked from her page (by you, I presume), and that is also better than one might expect. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 09:45, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Another vote for 1855. I'll take it. Almost through with Stokes biography; have not yet looked at her niece's memoir, but will. Have been busy with the Repplier bibliography (spreadsheet). Turns out Stokes' bibliographic notes are extensive, but not comprehensive. It appears as though he was presented with a box/boxes of clippings/periodicals and jotted the info down as he went. Mostly Life entries—which have been helpful. Absent are most of the Atlantic Monthly and Catholic World contributions, but they are/were relatively easy to identify in online searches (my box). So, my effort may not be complete in the end, but extensive in itself. 320 entries and counting... Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:17, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Probably :) Are those bibliographical notes how you are finding out that some essays have different titles, or is that your own research? I had been wondering if some shorter pieces were recompiled into longer texts when published in her collections. I only discovered the site the other day, and the extensive listing of essays and reviews by Repplier, then saw that you have noted links to the site. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 03:57, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
With her collection essays (many of which are original to the collections and do not appear in print elsewhere), I search blocks of text to see if they pop up in periodicals online (your contributions have helped here), sometimes revealing title differences. I read somewhere that many of her short Life sketches were building blocks (there's another phrase, but it escapes me) for some of her longer essays. Smart. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:04, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
I can't think of the phrase either; 'scaffolding' sprang to mind, but that is not quite right. I found another mention: The New International Encyclopædia/Repplier, Agnes. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 17:22, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
'sprang to mind': Springboard? Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:35, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
 :) 17:41, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

I am trying to determine which Repplier collection essays are original to the collections. I am unsure as to whether Repplier essay contributions to the "The Contributor's Club" section of The Atlantic Monthly (where authors are unattributed) came before or after publication in Repplier's collections. See The Battle of the Babies in the June 1892 issue (also published in 1892 in Essays in Miniature). There are four such "Contributor's Club" listings for Repplier, and each periodical publication date coincides with the year in which it appeared in her collections. In other words, if "The Battle of the Babies" appeared first in The Atlantic Monthly, then it is not original to the collection in which it appeared. Any thoughts on which might have come first—appearance in collections or appearance in "The Contributor's Club"? Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:45, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

IMO, now that you have made me aware of it, the early success of Repplier's essays may have been due to being published without attribution. She was regarded as good, not just good considering (Aut Cæsar, aut Nihil#60 et seq.). I don't recall anything in the volumes themselves being more precise than 'some essays were published in', so I'm assuming that the other essays were first published in those volumes. It is nice that you found those anonymous pieces, is that thanks to Stoke's notes or by searching on the text? And can I assume you found the cataloguing at It might be useful to you, and you to them; I notice that your example, "Battle of the babies", is not included. I hope this is in some way helpful, though I fear it is not, if I come across something more concrete on the publishing order and other arrangements I will let you know. I noticed your bibliography subpage on RC and have been watching with interest (apologies for that, if I need to apologise for stalking my Repplier collaborator). CYGNIS INSIGNIS 14:50, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
Found the following: "Conceived [by William Dean Howells] as a series of short, anonymous pieces, along the line of letters to the editor, [The Contributor's Club] returned to the days when subscribers enjoyed guessing who wrote what..." Contributors were paid the same as they were for regular article submission. I discovered the anonymous pieces via text search; Stokes' bibliographic notes only mention two or three AM contributions. I used the listing initially, but followed up/confirmed the old fashioned way consulting the Reader's Guide to Periodical Literature. PD copies of the Guide can be found at Hathi Trust—thankfully—for my library has no access to physical or virtual volumes. I would like to at least get my hands on RGPL volumes encompassing 1923-1950 to round out my bibliography, but that will have to wait. The shorter Life essays are not listed at nor in the RGPL, so that took some time researching (Stokes' bibliographic notes contain Life listings primarily, which were helpful, but include minor errors/some incomplete info; easy enough to correct/confirm/fill in the blanks, however, between Google Books and Hathi Trust). I would like to make the bibliographic information available either at WS or WP (an w:Agnes Repplier bibliography page perhaps)—hence my subpage document dump—but I am not sure what the most useful layout/presentation would be. A sortable table would be ideal, but a lot of work. If any ideas come to mind, I would appreciate input! Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:41, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
I broke my rule about putting forward personal opinions and immediately regretted it. Aside from her already being highly regarded in 1892, you have indicated that it was even left to readers to guess that it was her work. The site is selective in the periodicals it presents, according to the review I read, and I couldn't find no signs of Life content there. Searching on 'Life' presents other problems, flooding the results with other "Life, but not as we know it", and, as I said above, I am not always able to access the works through google books anyway. I had also considered whether you could create a bibliography at wikipedia, linked from a PD list here, there is more value in making it available there (IMO!). You may have to give some consideration to policies on 'original research' and so on, but I might be over-thinking it. Sortable tables are fiddly, and I don't know if the other problems they suffered from have been resolved since I last made one, but if you want to go that way I could use a text editor to apply the coding (your spreadsheet could probably be used to do the same thing). CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:43, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
Your rare, albeit reluctant offering of opinions is appreciated—and especially your tolerance of incessant inquiry. I'll give the bibliography some thought, and look around WP for some examples. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:23, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
I did a quick search of en:wp and found a number of bibliographies about film makers (who also have 'filmographies'). There is an w:Edgar Allan Poe bibliography (FA) that I was aware of, you might look it over for ideas. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:53, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for taking a look. I came across WP's recommended structure for bibliographies (Naming section), and came across Mark Twain's page there. I will probably opt for that sort of structure rather than tables. I am guessing WP would not recommend linking to external sites through page numbers as I have done in my subpage bibliography, although I think it would be useful to readers. But I guess I'll tackle that adjustment later. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:17, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
Linking a primary source, the essay itself, is where this gets tricky. In some ways it is distasteful, I recently noticed that someone won $10 000 for creating an article on a PD magazine with about thirty links to the site awarding the prize. The articles on Poe and Mark Twain are well supported by scholarly works, secondary sources, on their complete oeuvre. I would even be reluctant to link directly from article (or list) content to this site or, despite their principled objectives. I don't want to indicate it is this simple, or that I see a problem with what you are doing, but am concerned that, in principle, creating bibliographic content there would require some wiki-lawyering. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 13:01, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
Hmm. Not an area I am familiar with. I can cite the RGPL and Stokes' contribution for several entries. Perhaps I make my spreadsheet available to the University of Pennsylvania Libraries to include with their Repplier Papers (if they would have it) and use myself as a source? My amateur colors are showing. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:42, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
However, even Stokes' manuscript notes probably qualify as "original research" as well (being unpublished) and would not be accepted at WP as a "reliable source". His notes do contain several errors that I have identified. I'll inquire at WP and get their input. Thanks for yours. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:23, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
I'd be interested to know the what the response is. Stoke's refers to the more extensive bibliography at the end of his concise one, which is published. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 12:24, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
I have moved the text of my bibliography to my WP sandbox (w:User:Londonjackbooks/sandbox), where I also copied and pasted my Help desk question (now archived) along with two responses. I would have liked more responses (and more detail), but they archive questions so quickly there. I'm continuing to clean up the bibliography, and when it is as complete as possible, I will post it; then the responses should roll in! Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:33, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
I have written something I may send to you for criticism, but will likely wait until you return. Have started reading Repplier's niece's memoir, and may eventually add to her article at WP. Wish I had taken notes while reading Stokes' bio. Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:29, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Hans Andersen's fairy tales (Robinson).djvu —images not transcluded[edit]

Hi. When you have some time, would you mind looking at Index:Hans Andersen's fairy tales (Robinson).djvu tranclusions as there are numbers of pages with images that have been omitted without evident comment. Thanks if you can. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:08, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. I found there was problems such as missing plates in the first file I uploaded, so I obtained another edition (Holt) to fix that. I believe I noted this everywhere I could think of, but another user (Chris55) overwrote that in places; I'm not sure what he or she had in mind when they did that. The main transclusion was complete in 2011, I'm pretty sure I had all the text and images in place, and I had another look at the end of last year. Outlier59 also noted a problem with the source tab, and I checked it all again, though I'm still not sure if what they saw as a problem is resolved to their satisfaction. Other than reverting to problematic pages (the way I had it, pre-2012), I don't know where else I can note the problem and what more I can do. Perhaps someone else will review the whole situation and provide a less confusing solution. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 05:09, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Index:Three hundred Aesop's fables (Townshend).djvu[edit]

Hi. I see that you created the Index for the work, and I observe that it has been completed in its proofreading/validation, though not many pages are transcluded. How do you see that this will be transcluded as there is a redirect at the work name, and the work exists without validated text? — billinghurst sDrewth 06:22, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi, thanks again. Transcluded as one page, I think, and that the other version is kept. See Talk:Three_Hundred_Æsop's_Fables#Editions for some related discussion. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:34, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion Index:The fireside sphinx.djvu[edit]

Continuing my slooow checking and I see that Index:The fireside sphinx.djvu is transcribed though not transcluded. If you want someone else to do it, then please ping me, and I will get to it within the week. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:36, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: I thought the quality of the transcript was doubtful, after LJB revealed my idea of 'proofread' is somewhat less than that. Sorry for the late reply, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:19, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Sartor Resartus, &c.[edit]

With the exception of problematic p. 70, Sartor Resartus is proofread. Noting that there is a Gutenberg version already hosted here, I wasn't sure what your intentions were with regard to transclusion, so I will leave that to you, unless you leave instruction. I was also not sure if you intended to perform magic with the Index.

In other matters, Repplier's essay collections (in PD) are now all proofread. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:44, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

Problematic p. 70 is no longer a problem. Went ahead and transcluded Index; it was begging. Hoping I have done so satisfactorily. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:42, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

OK, I'll say it[edit]

Good to see 'Cygnis insignis' pop up in RC earlier. With no unrealistic hopes that you'll stick around, I do hope you are well. Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:56, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

And good to hear from you, as always. I'm trying to tidy up other busyness and focus on several projects here, later this year. When I reflect on the work I have done here, the texts we collaborated on are the highlights. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:26, 7 May 2018 (UTC)
Me too, for different reasons. It was a lifeline. I've been validating Repplier's works thinking I might nominate the lot of her essays for FT some day. See you around!— Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:18, 9 May 2018 (UTC)
I would think that is a fine idea :) I will look over your completed texts to see if the Repplier essays can be improved; your suggestions are welcome, of course. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:34, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. I will be around WS sporadically the next few weeks, as we are in the process of moving. Packers are here as I write, so I am editing to keep from being tempted to be too controlling over the process :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:54, 14 May 2018 (UTC)


you have been around after all Jarrah Tree (talk) 13:31, 12 May 2018 (UTC) Today I found someone on wp en (if it is genuine...) approximateley one edit a year for the last 10 years... Jarrah Tree (talk) 13:40, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

@JarrahTree: so busy elsewhere, so many storms, is that an excuse? I vhecked my contribs, random and infrequent is my signature, but thanks for keeping tabs on that. Call that number sometime, me erstwhile shipmate. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 14:49, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
shiver me timbers, argghh me long lost lard of lubber, youve still got some salt in your lungs, not a land living waster yet me hearty Jarrah Tree (talk) 00:05, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

Template:Folk-Lore link[edit]

I believe that I have successfully implemented the publications "Folk-Lore Record"/"The Folk-Lore Journal"/"Folk-Lore" into Template:Folk-Lore link. Somewhat unfortunate that "The Folk-Lore Journal" was the base for the existing template, as that is now somewhat quirky switch between from the base publication. Should be finished updating all existing links today, and will better document the additional functionality. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:55, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Emu not EMU[edit]

Hello! I have started to create a pagelist. It is easily reverted if you envisioned something different or I can get back to it soonish. The scrollbar on the index is just paste from the Help but it is useful for not scrolling when creating the pagelist.

Cool journal! I am glad to see it here. Should get The Auk up here also....--RaboKarbakian (talk) 15:33, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi. All I could get was an abstract for an article, so I converted my frustration into a solution. I found an important fact that proves an assumed idea, so I couldn't be happier. I would probably get some joy out of that august journal too. Any help is greatly appreciated, there are page skips for the twenty odd plates. I can ignore the scroll bar, I'm not a fan; though I see the value in having the ToC adjacent to the index, the browser's scroll is less fiddly, is familiar, and at my fingertips anywhere on the page. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:50, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
{{Scrollpane}} If you prefer a different one. I have very few opinions about this. Index:Bird-lore_Vol_01.djvu uses a template I pasted from the help, previously.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)
Maybe I should have started this on the talk page. I have been needing to talk to @Hesperian: about Portal:Taxonomy instead of Portal:Genus species. Journals are a good place to start to talk. I am stuck at thinking about the scientific vs vulgare articles and how to manage the lists; all I can think of is by date. Bibliographies make their own lists. I wonder if the brits have a bird journal.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Ask an admin to move without redirect[edit]

With a whack of pages in Page: ns, it is preferable to get an admin to move the pages without a redirect. Can also do the index page at the same time if required. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:27, 7 July 2018 (UTC)

Why did you delete pages in that index without moving them? — CYGNIS INSIGNIS 08:05, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
You marked the parent index page for deletion, which indicated to me that you had finished as the underlying pages need to be deleted. I have recovered the two "not proofread"pages and put them in place. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:31, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Show me where I did that, that is, restore the page and index history. There will be a few more questions, take some time to consider your replies. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 18:22, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
Two Page: ns pages have been recovered and moved over per your request. If you didn't add the deletion components, they must have been artefacts of other deletion requests, my apologies if they were prematurely deleted. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:41, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: Not exactly what I requested. Have you restored the history of index? I haven't checked again. Those page histories show what I recall, there was no tag to delete, Your second sentence is not understood, but given my frustration I'm reading it as gas-lighting, "artefacts", with a conditional apology. "if".
Based on what you said, I invested more time in trying to establish what happened, I didn't want to be casting aspersions over my own mistake (I intensely dislike causing trouble for others). Are you willing to strike your comment that says otherwise? I would appreciate that if you do. Please also show me links to the Page and Index history by posting them here, and we can unfold the next concern. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:19, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
No I haven't restored the deleted index file, it shouldn't be merged, so what is the purpose of an undeletion? My "if ... then" statement was not saying that you did or did not do something, it if not A, then the "then" statement to how I managed the listing (artefacts = what happens with transclusions). I am not going to dig dig dig without a purpose, I am not accusing you of anything, or saying that you did anything wrong, or laying any blame. If you say that I prematurely deleted, I will accept that, and I will fix whatever needs fixing. Index/Page deletions where pages have been moved leaving redirects are a PITA and messy, which was why I did the initial comment, nothing more, just trying to avoid them into the future. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:56, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst:I want the history to show what happened, and when, and have asked that they be linked here. I gave careful thought to how to resolve my title error with the least time and effort, especially for others as it was my failure to correct the upload tool's mistake. I realised my mistake, but continued to proof and save when I confirmed what and where the article I wanted was. The index and pages, less than a dozen, would have taken me about a minute to move and check. I have done it suppressing redirects when I had that tool, for myself and others, always satisfactorily I believe and never heard otherwise.
I've done it before this way and you have given no reason not to do it again. This will lead to a similar outcome, and I want to discuss why I found the incident problematic and point out the consequences. I had three pages to go when you made your announcement, taking over without a nod from me and demonstrating very little care or consideration for the outcome. That is the generous interpretation! When I returned the next day, I had to puzzle out what happened to the content I thought I created!? You had messed it up in the worst way possible, then you avoided showing the history that reveals that. I think I have been pretty gentle with you under the circumstances, and the history of your interventions.
I've been in the mood to contribute content, hopefully useful to others, so ignored the notices here while focussing on that elsewhere. You are doubling-down on your opinion that in some way my approach was the problem, yet again, and that is only the beginning of my troubles. Venturing beyond this page, glancing at my watchlist, and so on is likely to be unproductive; I don't trust you to act responsibly and so consider myself effectively blocked. Please do as I ask, restore the history and link it here. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 17:00, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

Here is the history. No real value in undeleting. Page history

   (diff) 20:22, 6 July 2018 . . Cygnis insignis (talk | contribs | block) (424 bytes) (probably complete)
   (diff) 19:49, 6 July 2018 . . Cygnis insignis (talk | contribs | block) (148 bytes) (interim save)

which would indicate that it was artefact in that a transcluded page was putting in the delete template. I believed that you had moved the pages you wanted moved, put in a deletion request, which I did and cleaned up. Nothing more, nothing less. I am not doubling down on anything, and making no negative assertions or accusations. My initial comment was simply asked that you ask an admin to move pages from page namespace so we don't have to remove redirects and other cleanups, they are messy, and this is an indication of how they get messy. Having an admin do them gets them moved all together in a minute, and away we go. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:56, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Restore the history. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 12:35, 16 July 2018 (UTC) 14:21, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
That is undeleting the fileindex page. They cannot be done independently. It will show you nothing further, except the old page and the old empty transclusions. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:42, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
The file still exists. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 12:51, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
Oops, I meant index page, the file does exist, and won't show anything particularly. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:34, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
That is the history. Is it an undeletion that you are requesting of the Index: page, that can occur, it will show that history, and little else. What are you wishing to occur and to what purpose? — billinghurst sDrewth 01:24, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
You have no business deleting history, and your latest intervention is an example of why that is the norm. The long-standing consensus at wikis is 'this is a not-good practice' and the onus is on the user to justify why there should be an exception according to established criteria. You can continue to spin falsehoods about what happened, loading your sentences with subjective terms for my orderly and unobjectionable cleanup, and make up 'rules' to justify shouldering me aside and doing something that was obviously wrong. I am now asserting this was intentionally disruptive. You know I value revision history, you swept away another request to restore another page (without a word to me). It doesn't interfere with your objectives.
You coming anywhere near my edits is pretty average under the circumstances, at best it is thoughtless and insensitive, it has almost always been unwelcome and guaranteed to waste my time. You ought to have restored and merged the history as a matter of course, do that now and we can discuss how you can keep out of the way any unobjectionable contributions. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:52, 17 July 2018 (UTC)


Not entirely sure whether thanks are in order for you performing this but the net result is probably about right. My original intent was to instil care, research and general caution before rushing in but B's response pretty much proves my point. No love lost. There will be no further assistance implied or offered. 21:12, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

This seems a gracious reaction in that you recognise the net result, and it is possible I was acting thoughtfully and in the community's interest. Thank you for that part, because that has always been been my first concern. I should say the other party thanked me for the same (using the 'give public thanks' doodad). Bringing it up here was one of the possible consequences, I hoped you wouldn't because he is clearly unwell, but it still a better venue than there.
And no love lost either, because I lack the context for your contributions; that mine are linked to this unique account is my only stupid brag (I have never used alternates, it is sad that people feel the need). Your stated intentions are similar to mine, care, research and general caution. Who you were was irrelevant (no insult intended), however, if we meet again in the future then know I generally try to wish everyone well as you seem to have done here. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 14:59, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
My unwelcome two cents, which I hesitate to add, and probably shouldn't. To delete may have been appropriate, and it seems all parties are in agreement that it was; but any further assertions or assumptions (if I understand) on the matter—without context—seems... inappropriate? Londonjackbooks (talk) 06:18, 14 July 2018 (UTC)
Never unwelcome, London, because I regard you as a friend and colleague. I am reconsidering whether one comment is presumptive and inappropriate, and acknowledge the lack of context is potentially unhelpful, however, I had thought my opinion allows a more generous interpretation of this latest incident than what was being implied. My first impulse was to remove a logged out comment, deftly pointing out something that I avoided mentioning to make a jab at another member of the community. That probably would have been a better option, I could remove this section if you agree. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 09:20, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
I am sure I miss much where interpretation of comments shared between you all is concerned :) But I appreciate and have a fondness/respect for each of you, and therefore also "wish everyone well"—and with regard to one another. I am not objective enough to determine whether removal of this section would be a good thing. I would not protest if you desire to do so. The space is yours :) Thanks for your response, Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:40, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Page talk:The Emu volume 3.djvu/257[edit]

G'day, it's great to be seeing you around the place again, and thanks for getting in touch. I'm a bit more busy in real life these days, so getting less done here. Yes that stuff is 'my cup of tea', and it even makes me feel slightly enthusiastic to renew my engagement in that kind of thing. But only slightly. I daresay nothing will come of it.... Hesperian 07:23, 20 August 2018 (UTC)

Slight enthusiasm achieved! I did well to sell someone on murky black-and-white images of … the middle of nowhere. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:35, 20 August 2018 (UTC)


@RaboKarbakian: Please don't bother others with problems of your own making, particularly one of the few good admins here (your vague request at LBJ's page about WikiData conundrums). As you well know, you created those items at a sister site and so it is up to you to resolve it there; whoever you are, your neophyte/adept persona is wearing thin. — CYGNIS INSIGNIS 14:18, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

What do I say?... @RaboKarbakian: @Cygnis: I have created my own share of problems here and elsewhere over time—also at times asking for WD help from WS contributors. Often, knowledge of the works/nature of the works themselves helps one's perspective when attempting to untangle related data over there. And for other reasons. No matter, I may not be the best contributor to help resolve this one. As a few days have passed since this issue was raised, I hope all has since been resolved. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:31, 20 September 2018 (UTC)