User talk:Cygnis insignis

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"And if he move his dwelling-place, his heavens also move
Where'er he goes & all his neighbourhood bewail his loss . . ."

Clever? witty? wonkish and droll?
All true—perhaps—but I think: more
Than these. . . From all that's met my eye—
A Part of that Immortal Sky.[1]



(no response necessary) Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:40, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Hello 'London' :) CYGNIS INSIGNIS 23:36, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Please add images to Index:Just so stories (c1912).djvu[edit]

Could you please add images to Page:Just_so_stories_(c1912).djvu/274 and Page:Just_so_stories_(c1912).djvu/275 of the above so that it can be validated. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 01:33, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Kathleen, I went ahead & edited/uploaded said images (see their rendering, if acceptable). I could have done a better job editing (time constraints), but they are ready for validation nonetheless... AKA Londonjackbooks 13:16, 15 April 2012 (UTC) Updated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:48, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you and question[edit]

Thanks, Cygnis for your help getting me started. I have added a bunch of pages with apparent success.

Question: Is there a way to quote chapter AND VERSE when referencing one of the Bible collections? I am using this form: Bible_(King_James)/Hosea#Chapter_9 which gets me to the chapter. But I haven't found any magic incantations for citing specific verses within the chapters. I see that there is a (verse|chapter=2|verse=1) tag for each verse. I have searched through archives from years past about various revisions to how chapters and verses are tagged. But I haven't found any current "here's how to do it" information about how to cite them. Can you point me in the right direction to discover how to do this? Thanks again. Rcrowley7 (talk) 21:22, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Use of {{gap}} inside {{block center}} to prevent line-wrap.[edit]

Hello Cygnis insignis.

I notice you have cleverly made use of a dummy trailing {{gap|6em}} on the first line of poetry inside a {{block center/s}} to inhibit line-wrapping two or three lines later, e.g. Page:An argosy of fables.djvu/509.

I have taken the liberty of modify/validating the page to add the effect of "semi-embedding" the graphic capital; and have experimented to find the minimum {{gap|xem}} which will still work...

However, the question remains: Why does this work? I would have thought the same effect should come about by adding a width specification to the {{block center}}, but this simply does not seem to work!

So credit where it is due to you for figuring this out. I repeat, though: Do you know how it works?

Cheers, MODCHK (talk) 08:08, 14 November 2012 (UTC)


Considering you have been mostly inactive both on here and Wikipedia, you are probably retired. But I though I should ping you anyway: I am pushing forward some work on the rest of Index:Father's_memoirs_of_his_child.djvu, since the whole book hasn't ever been transcribed in whole, elsewhere (only the intro about Blake). Hope you are well, Sadads (talk) 15:44, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Recreating Index:Book of record of the time capsule of cupaloy (New York World's fair, 1939).djvu[edit]

You deleted it a long time ago, per user request, but it seems to be within the scope of the project and I am interested in transcribing it. Hope this will not be a problem. Phillipedison1891 (talk) 19:11, 29 July 2014 (UTC)


Its good to see you around again. Moondyne (talk) 00:39, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

It sure is. Hesperian 01:02, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Cheers, glad to find you both still active here. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 03:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
+1 — billinghurst sDrewth 04:07, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Ta. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 04:12, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
+2 :) Captain Nemo (talk) 05:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC).
+3! — George Orwell III (talk) 20:27, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
@Captain Nemo:@George Orwell III: Thanks. I saw your welcomes and forgot to reply, sorry about that. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 07:24, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome back[edit]

Was patrolling RC yesterday and spotted your name, so I've been trying to think if there are any new templates that would be interesting to you. The main one I can think of is {{fqm}}, which has proved to be handy for hanging punctuation on the left side of poems. It behaves nicely with {{block center}}, which has had a few mods to allow absolute widths on the /s version as well as the ordinary one. The other new templates that might be useful to you are {{FI}} and {{FIS}} for freeing images. I haven't got my head around these completely yet, but Ineuw and George have been using them in various applications. The other major change in my main interest area is the addition of a score extension to allow the rendering of music scores using either Lilypond or ABC. If you come across any score fragments in your works either drop me a note or tag the page with {{missing score}} and I'll get to it. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:59, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi, good to hear from you! That is very helpful to know, ta very much for those links. The missing score work sounds like a great idea, as does the extension; I see an enormous benefit in adding music scores here. I'm still trying to remember how to add stuff, but will have a look at developments when I do. Cheers, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 09:30, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Outside of transcriptions, were we using {{authority control}} back then? I don't think that we were. Linked to this, probably the biggest change is Wikidata: and how we now have our long wished for centralised data place, and can pull metadata, including links, images, etc., which means with some of our creating/updating of author templates we can auto-populate. Much of the power of that automated data is really still to come, and we still haven't been the best denizens there populating our data/knowledge. Toolserver has been replaced by toollabs:, and is a significantly improved and supported set of toys, and it has allowed for an explosion of tools that can allow us to query and detect, and again, some have been designed for us, others sit off wikidata, or are set for other wikis, though can be manipulated for our use (sort of). Elsewhere Bugzilla was replace by Phabricator:, and it is a better tool. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:27, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Billinghurst. I 'm still dusting off the cobwebs, remembering the tips, tricks and workflows. I noticed authrty cntrl being rolled out at en.wp, I will try to grasp how it is being used here. Having metadata available at WD must be very useful, I will ping you the next time I create an Author page so you show me what is what. I used to imagine something like a single accession form for works, grabbing information from the source (e.g. and elsewhere (citation generators), which could be used to populate the templates at Commons and here with [amendable] bibliographic data. So what you are telling seems like good news, and that this is possible or being done. Could I, for example, use the url of a page here to generate a citation at wikipedia? My tools are blunted and rusty, I will poke around to see what documentation and examples are around. Cheers, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 05:55, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
Okay, that reminds me that we now have the namespace Module: which is for LUA coding, which is more efficient and powerful than template coding, though also more complex. It drives numbers of new templates like AC, and the Wikibase scripts. The usage of the data at WD back to the respective wikis has been slow, as can be expected while data is collated, tools built, confidence gained, people educated. Primarily, it has been building the one to one relationship, though the extension of arbitrary access is now becoming more widely available. I am unaware what has been done in the citation space at enWP. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:01, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: I found a good example for me to try and grasp what is going on with WD and (chillingly named) Authority Control template: I made a new page for Author:Dugald Stewart Walker, and want wikidata to recognise it should (or could) be linked to commons and wikipedia. The template did fill the template with his birth/death dates when I opened the edit window, but getting the sister links to display is what I am not seeing. Ideally I would hope that the article shows there is a non-empty author page here too, no matter whether that is in the side bar or jostling for advertising space in footer. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 09:00, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Apologize for speaking out of turn:) The story behind WD in a nutshell: it is the place to store the data about an author (or a work, or anything). The name and the lifespan are stored locally at wikisource, the rest (including gender, sister links, interwikis, image, viaf and lots of libraries ids, etc) is stored at wikidata. Two templates pull data back from wikidata (if available): "author" itself and "authority control". If the wikidata item for a person exists and has enough information already then one and only one thing is required to make our templates work properly: add the link to wikisource author page into the wikidata item. I have done it for Author:Dugald Stewart Walker, follow the wikidata link on this author's page and you can see the link back to wikisource there. Hope that helps. I leave the story of what to do if there is no wikidata item for an author for billinghurst to tell:) Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 10:49, 4 October 2015 (UTC).
Knowledge is knowledge, whomever has it.

To pull the data from WD, there needs to be an association b/w the WD and WS author page, which is done at WD by adding the EN ... Author:(pagename) [and it should show up in a lookup]. SAVE! This enables the header template to know its ID and have a direct relationship, and then pull the pertinent xwiki links, image link, and templated data. If no WD, then generally create one, though suggest a few searches to look for names as other WSes, and xxWP enables a broader data set. If you need scripts to help there I think that they load from m:User:Billinghurst/global.js though there are some local gadgets too. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you both, that was what I needed to know. While I have your attention, he is something to ponder: here is a title page that attributes the translation to Author:A. E. Johnson, I don't 'know' who that is and was my own search was inconclusive. One of you moved that author page to it's full name (for whatever reason), but I don't know how that conclusion was reached; PG says it is by him and, consequently, so do many other sites. Maybe it is by Alfred Johnson, though I did find another plausible possibility (well, more intriguing) … anyway, my point is not to quibble about this example, but suggest that it is better to be hesitant about attribution. Thank you both again for your time, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:22, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
In re Author:A. E. Johnson. It was the default source of data about an author and thus unmentioned -- viaf record. If you have any info that points to another person please post it on the talk page - everyone is happy to see viaf wrong:) at least from time to time. Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 23:50, 5 October 2015 (UTC).

Stockton Talk page arrangement proposal[edit]

If you agree, I would like to arrange Frank Richard Stockton's Talk page in this way. I am basically copying the arrangement used by Hesperian at the Henry James author page. I have researched Stockton's works, and have filled in some blanks and removed some redundancies. Feel free to tweak if you have suggestions. I am not necessarily sure if the works listed under "non-fiction" are actually all non-fiction, or if they should go under another section title. It didn't seem appropriate to place them under novels or story collections. I don't know... [add: "Individual stories" section would eventually be organized somehow, whether by date or alphabetically; which do you think?) Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:55, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

I can't fault that approach, it is very clear. I've done it other ways too ... a response to different situations; maybe more biblio. info. when things are complicated. I read somewhere that Stockton's stories were rearranged under new titles, using that source was a good idea. The story about the Minor Canon was the first I read by Stockton, the best in that recent anthology. The editor said that reading the Lady and the Tiger is compulsory, or something like that. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 13:51, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I'll make the change. Feel free to make any other changes as you see fit. I created Stockton's author page back in 2012, but I can't remember why. I assumed it had to do with a Coates connection—they are both Philadelphians (at least he was born there)—but that is the only link I have discovered recently. May have just been a random add. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:47, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Index:Australian legendary tales.djvu to get to be FT?[edit]

What are your thoughts about getting this work validated so we can nominate it as a featured text? It

  • is referenced at WP and I think that it could be more in the articles about Australian fauna;
  • has quite a few internal links to the author and her work among the folklore works that we currently host;
  • contains ogg files (imported from Librivox), which gives an added feature;
  • has an element of difference.

If you don't think that it has, then I won't push to get it validated. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:17, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

What I saw looked pretty schmick, and I agree with your reasons for having it promoted. My own copy is edited and illustrated by others (old, though probably copyright protected), but I was interested in the volumes you added and see some ways they could be referenced at WP. After reading the Lang intro I found some recent articles in journals that reference this edition too. I noticed that you found the contemporary references and review, but have a inkling there are more links to be found. Do we review the audio-book material as part of the package, or just note that it's available? I'm looking for a diversion and would be happy to do a careful second proofread of this, though I know others who would get it letter perfect. Are there any recurring problems with the text layer, or anything else I should look out for? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 07:52, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
I was just noted the chapters with {{listen}}, though maybe the template could do with some sort of warning about separately sourced, and not part of the validation process. With regard to OCR issues, some 'o' and 'ol' came through as 'd', and there are some 'ä' components 'mäh' where the diereses disappear. I did a search for the unframed word based on page: ns and didn't find any issues, but that could be a search fail. To note that the subsequent book has brälgah though I didn't see that in this version, though I may have missed it. If SF proofreads, then please review, their proofreading lacks thoroughness at times. I think that I got my title formatting consistent, though fresh eyes is good. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:12, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and the (hanging) indents. I did shrink pages, and look with my mobile, but they always need separate review. Noting that I plan to read (enjoy?) as an epub this week, so that may highlight some issues to me. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:16, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
Quick note that when you get to the poetry (pages 108-109, 123), you can eliminate the non-breaking spaces by using {{fqm}} as an alternate option. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:25, 19 October 2015 (UTC)


Well done! Did I miss that? Or have you got some good source material? Have you some pointer to some sort of biographical information, and I will see what my genie resources are able to help me uncover. — billinghurst sDrewth 16:33, 23 October 2015 (UTC)

Look again mate CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:43, 23 October 2015 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: So, did you find what I found out? And yes, I think it would be a good text for FT :) I guess I could get the nomination underway, unless you were inclined to.CYGNIS INSIGNIS 12:44, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
That is like two weeks ago, I cannot remember back that far beyond external sources did support. I am pretty sure that I updated things here and commons for both works when I got back from the States. Go ahead and nominate, I am stuck in other things, and with a backlog that would equal the number the rail sleepers between you and me. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:55, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Apology: it was an oblique way of advertising the short article I cobbled together for ye. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 13:29, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

Words escape[edit]

What is the word or phrase used when significant (relatively speaking) mention is made within a text of a certain person, topic, etc.? What I want to do is make reference in "Works about" sections of author pages to the portions of For Remembrance that are dedicated to individual "soldier poets"—but I'm not sure how to write up the entries. Something like:

*[[For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war/Chapter 2#Julian Grenfell|Biographical info]] in ''For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war'' (1920) by A. St. John Adcock.

I am anchoring the portions of text that make mention of each poet. Should I use the word "Reference" or "Passage" in place of "Biographical info" in the entry? or some other word/phrase? or should I not even bother to add such entries?

Also, if I may get your opinion with regard to what I should be linking to within the text. There are numerous cases within this text that I could add links to (note page 12), but I am hesitant. Should I instead only focus on linking to cases related to the soldier-poets and their works? I also hesitate to use redlinks for the reason that future WS adds might use different naming conventions (case, etc.), leaving a link red even though the author/work might otherwise be available. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:07, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Notable, at wikipedia.
Notable at wikipedia instead? I add things to 'works about' in the hope it becomes noted there, making the section here redundant (which it often is).
so maybe … Chapter 2#Julian Grenfell|Biographical note
I use links to page numbers, not anchors, and hope someone will ask me why one day.
That verse could link to The Steel Glass, provoking someone to add it. I try to remember to search on titles I create, I'm sure others will enjoy making those links too. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 21:58, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Removed anchors, will use page numbers. I originally linked to The Steel Glass—along with many other links—but went back and deleted them, as I was becoming exasperated by all the possibilities. For now I will focus my linking efforts on the soldier-poets and their works so I remain motivated to proofread. I may go back later and embellish. Thanks much, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:19, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
Didn't check the history. I usually link titles, occasionally authors (works, not biography) if strongly supported by context. I don't like distraction when reading, who does? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 23:32, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
"Strongly supported by context" is good guidance, thanks. Distraction is partly why I haven't yet completed The nature and elements of poetry. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:08, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
What a great example, you ought to feel pretty satisfied with that. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 05:02, 28 October 2015 (UTC)
But for links such as—

This child's heart detected "poetry, poetry everywhere!"

But those are rare. I am otherwise satisfied. Encouragement certainly helps... Just a few pages a day would go a long way to seeing it completed. Couple months maybe. Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:04, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

Life among the Apaches progress[edit]

Thank you for your help with Life among the Apaches! I was looking at the progress bar on the main page, and it suggests that the book is mostly green, nearly fully verified. But that's not true. Actually, about 90 pages of 322 have been verified. Shouldn't that bar show the book is about 1/3 verified? --Outlier59 (talk) 01:24, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

The stripe only shows the progress of the pages shown on that page, not the whole work. I feel that is misleading, if it is understood at all by the user. My workaround is to make it true, and proofread or validate the whole thing :) CYGNIS INSIGNIS 01:54, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Chesterton's William Blake edition, etc.[edit]

Just came across this listing... This is the exact copy of the Chesterton book that I bought, read and sold (almost 2 years ago). Merely a curiosity now since I no longer own it, but do you have any knowledge about whether it is a first edition or not based on the images? and if a book has "presentation copy" stamped (perforated) on the inside, what does that mean? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:48, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

This is the third scan of a w:presentation copy I have seen in the last week, along with the Wilde thing you saw and a Carroll novelty that I was proofreading. These copies are worth seeking out for transcription because the printing plates are new, the pages are probably all there, it hasn't been used a lot, and any scribbling is restricted to the first couple of pages. The absence of a printing history could mean that a book is a first edition, I think I have that right, whether it is a genuine presentation copy of that could be determined by examination, comparison and provenance. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 06:47, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Sartor resartus[edit]

Ah, you're back! I have proofread a bit from the work (starting from page 195 if you wish to review). I prepped the remaining pages (not proofread) just to replicate your headers to make the task of proofreading quicker... but since you are back, I'll leave it to you. Welcome back, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:46, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Tak. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:59, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Reasons help[edit]

Please don't return to the actions of just reverting. We all have and can change, and hopefully we can all be less strident in our approach. Reverting without comment is always less than useful, so when you undo, please add a comment about what and why. How can anyone understand without an explanation. How can the next person understand. These are all our works, and the style guide gives guidance about replicating, so some will replicate; if they are not to replicate knowing why is informative. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:20, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Indeed ... my edit summary should have requested that you use an edit summary. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:34, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Essays in miniature[edit]

is validated, but for two pages I have proofread. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Amazing! It is good to know that you have brought your care and attention to the work. Thanks again for bringing the author to my attention. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 03:52, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Glad to... Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:45, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Question. Do you know what the date is that we are able to upload/transcribe 1923 works? Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:20, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Best that you ask that of someone else. Was there something in particular you were to hoping to bring here? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:43, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
Couple things on the top of my list: Battle-Retrospect (Yale Series of Younger Poets) by Amos Niven Wilder: He was acquainted with Coates, and is also brother of Thornton Wilder. Second, the updated Poems (Complete edition) of Alice Meynell (also knew Coates) which include her later poems. The first would be easy enough for me to scan; the second, I may have to wait for someone else to eventually upload it. I'll check at the Scriptorium for the date; I thought it was 2018 or 19 but not sure exactly. If you tried to check for me, thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:57, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
This was a nice read by Wilder... His later work on theology/theopoetics, etc. is way over my head, though I try to understand it. He was young when he knew Coates, as she died when Wilder was about 32. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:12, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Ideas of Good and Evil[edit]

Not sure how I should handle this. I just came across a versions page you created some time ago which highlights pieces/topics about William Blake. I have uploaded Yeats' work of the same title, and so I believe I should convert the versions page to a disambiguation page, but am not sure how to handle the Blake info. Due to the disambiguation, should I title the Yeats work Ideas of Good and Evil (Yeats)? Thanks for any direction, Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:37, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

My "sloppy dab" is evidently just wrong. I had the idea that Yeats had also 'edited' Blake's text and used the title that Gilchrist assigned to it. Unravelling the tangle of published Blake texts with versions and dabs was a big job, I attempted to implement a working model as a tentative solution. In this case a plain disambiguation, with (Yeats) and (Blake) appended to the title, seems like a good plan. I started to put this into effect, but now see I need to review the arrangements and incoming links to avoid making work for your good self. This page may provide some clarification as to how unclear the whole business is. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 08:25, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
I see what you mean. I will then leave the untangling to your good self as you have more intimate knowledge of William whatshisname and the subtleties of his work than I. Sorry to put more on your plate, Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:58, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Flora Hongkongensis[edit]

This doesn't really qualify for speedy deletion under G1, since it is not a test edit, obvious nonsense, or vandalism. Rather it is the transcluded table of contents (with header and categorization) from a PD source supported by a DjVu file. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:34, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I thought that was the closest thing, very little meaningful content, thus the elaboration in the reasoning section of the template; I believe there are precedents for similar. If you want to decline it as sdelete, would you mind opening a discussion at the appropriate forum. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 07:09, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
When sdelete is declined, all that is needed is to have the reason added to the work's associated talk page. I have done this.
If you wish to start a deletion request, you may certainly do so. However, content supported by a suitably uploaded source file at Commons is not likely to be deleted. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:52, 24 January 2016 (UTC)


Thanks for that. I was waiting things out for a time, for my first "undo" alerted the vandal which provoked a return to the scene of the crime. I placed notice at the noticeboard; waiting to see how it is handled for future reference. Wondering specifically how each foul edit is remedied. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:06, 4 February 2016 (UTC)