was in the room, the door was closed, we were the only two in the room at the time. I asked her words to the effect of, "what's wrong?" Brittany responded by outlining the events of Saturday after they had arrived back at Parliament House, or on the approach to Parliament House.
So just doing the best you can, what words did she use to you?—-She said that she and Bruce had arrived in an Uber at Parliament House. And they had come through security and come back to the Minister's suite. She told me that she had been sitting on a windowsill and didn't remember anything after that until she woke up on the couch in the Minister's office.
All right. And did she say what was happening when she woke up on the couch in the Minister's office?---She did. She said to me that at that time, Mr Lehrmann was having sex with her on the couch.
All right. Did she say anything else?---She was very upset at that point. So I paused to let her collect herself. And I then asked her, "may I ask you a very direct question?" And she said "Sure. Go for it". And I remember, those were the exact words, were "Sure. Go for it." And I said, "did he rape you?" And her response was, "I could not have consented. It would have been like f***ing a log."
And you're very clear in those words, Mr Payne. Why is that?---They were quite confronting words, as you can imagine. I mean, I don't know how to – a twenty-something year old female in tears saying those words to you is extremely confronting. So they stuck with me.
And did you say anything in response to that?---I let her collect herself because she was very upset. And I said to her, "if you want my advice, you must go and see a doctor and you should go to the police. And I can help you do those things. If you want to go now, I will take you". And her response was that – she thanked me for my concern and said she didn't want to proceed with that at that time.
299 I accept Mr Payne's evidence that these confronting words were said by Ms Higgins and that they resonated with Mr Payne.
300 In making this finding, I am conscious Ms Higgins had the following enigmatic exchange with Ms Maiden (Ex 50 (at 24–25)), characteristic of so many of her allegations in 2021:
Ms Higgins:
Everyone was weirded out that [Mr Lehrmann] had suddenly left, no good-bye, he packed up a box and he was gone, and it was like weird because he was one of Linda Reynolds kind of more senior advisers in that space. Everyone was like, that's weird. They knew obviously it was connected because Fiona called both of us in together. One of the advisers asked me one day, like oh, like something weird's going on, like are you okay. And I was like, oh, not really and I was like, do you want to know what's wrong? And he was like, no, no, I don't need to know that. And I said, okay, this is fun.
Ms Maiden:
How old was he?
Ms Higgins:
