User talk:Bobdole2021

Welcome to Wikisource

Hello, Bobdole2021, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Help pages, especially for proofreading
• Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource
• Style guide
• Inclusion policy
• Wikisource:For Wikipedians

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• Proofread of the Month
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Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

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• Wikisource:Scriptorium; or
• Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username if you're logged in (or IP address if you are not) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome!

Also, don't mind the added trigger word tags on your edits, it's because the word "ass" is often used by new users for various "hilarious" purposes. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 22:25, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Septuagint

Is "Bible (Brenton Septuagint)" the 1844 or the 1900 edition? We have transcriptions started for both listed at Septuagint.

Typically we give works titles either based on the published name, or a simple form with disambiguation. The Septuagint is neither The Hebrew Bible nor the Christian Bible, since it includes books not in the Hebrew Bible, and does not contain any of the gospels, letters, or other works that make up the "New Testament". It would be more accurate to use a title like Septuagint (Brenton 1844) to identify thaty it is a copy of the Septuagint, with the name of the translator and year of publication. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:00, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Actually this is the 1879 edition that appears with Greek text. It's fine to rename it. Septuagint_(Brenton_1879) is the new link, I have no idea how to get rid of the old one.Bobdole2021 (talk)

Index listings

It is always preferrable to use page numbers, because they will be listed in the margin and permit linking to a specific page. Typically, we use descriptions like "Cont" when there is no page number. Multiple pages with the same identification causes linking issues. And page identifiers like "Imprimatur" are so long that the page "number" display will overflow into the text. Hence, we abbreviate things like "Advertisement" to "Adv". --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:37, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Makes sense. Thanks for the corrections. Bobdole2021 (talk) 16:10, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

File:Withgodbookofpra00lasa.djvu

Hello. I have deleted File:Withgodbookofpra00las.djvu as a duplicate of the same file in Commons, as you requested. However, it seems that File:Withgodbookofpra00lasa.djvu is another duplicate of the same file. Can I delete it too? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:38, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Withgodbookofpra00las.djvu is the only one I'm using. Everything else must be a duplicate, so feel free to delete them. Bobdole2021 (talk) 16:09, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Numerals in sub-page titles

Hi, our style is to use Arabic numerals in the titles of subpages in preference to Roman. So, /Sermon 1 rather than /Sermon I. This is to allow for consistent linking. There is no problem with using Roman numerals in the content itself. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:38, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

OK change made. Easy enough. Bobdole2021 (talk) 20:42, 28 December 2021 (UTC)

I've made some adjustments to the first two TOC pages and moved the other subpages for you. I've also added previous and next links to the headers on the subpages. These allow the reader to move forwards and backwards through the book without going back to the TOC on the mainpage each time. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:05, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

It looks much better now. Thank you for cleaning up the TOC. Bobdole2021 (talk) 19:47, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

Most files belong on Commons

Hi, I note that you're uploading images and book files here. Most of these should be uploaded to Commons. This makes them available to all projects and they have the specific tools to manage them. The only exceptions are when their copyright policies would be breached, but ours are not. Also, your naming convention for the image files is not specific enough. "Fig31table" could belong to many books or papers. A better title would be some version of "Knecht commentary Fig31table". Uploads of images should also be categorised to at least the work they come from. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:03, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Yes it's true. My favourite file name was "shark.png". I was surprised it wasn't taken. Yes for the future I will use more specific filenames.

One question though. Most of these images include the caption in the image. Should I crop that out and include the caption with the file or leave it in? Bobdole2021 (talk) 19:15, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

I usually crop out the captions from the images and include them with the image template. E.g. this page I've just done. This makes the caption available to search tools and to readers using devices such as braille readers. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:43, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

OK I'll crop them from now on. Thanks for the pointer. Bobdole2021 (talk) 20:35, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

Image uploads

Hi. With regard to your recent image uploads, is there a reason that they have been uploaded to English Wikisource rather than loaded to Commons? Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:11, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Normally I upload them to Wikisource and then export them to Commons if I think that other people would be interested in them... so no I don't have a reason. Bobdole2021 (talk) 18:44, 14 March 2022 (UTC)

Page names and typos

Hi Bobdole2021,

I notice you'd created some subpages by mistake (typo in the page name) for A Practical Commentary on Holy Scripture. Please keep in mind that you can simply move such pages to the correct name using the "Move" function (it should be in the "More" menu up at the top of the page) instead of creating a new page. That will leave a redirect behind at the old name, and if that redirect is not needed (it usually isn't) you can tag it with {{sdelete|M2: Unneeded redirect}} and an admin will be along to delete it (could take a while; it's a manual process).

I also see you've copied the page names from the raw text of the table of contents. The standard on Wikisource for numbered chapters is to use subpage names like "Chapter 1", "Chapter 2", etc., so the page A Practical Commentary on Holy Scripture/XXXVI. God gives the Ten Commandments on Mount Sinai should really have been at A Practical Commentary on Holy Scripture/Chapter 36. For parts of works that are not numbered chapters (the prolegomena, typically) the descriptive page names (like "Foreword" etc.) are fine, and for things like poetry collections (i.e. where each part is a standalone work) we can use the title as the page name. Xover (talk) 09:16, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

I've been trying to setup the books I work on like that more recently, but yes a number of them aren't particularly well organized in terms of naming.

Thank you for the sdelete example. That will come in handy. Bobdole2021 (talk) 15:41, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Author:Catholic Church

I'd like to request that instead of crediting authorship of a work to the "Catholic Church", that you be a bit more specific. No work is by the "Catholic Church" per se. Instead, use the actual person or organization that actually wrote it, such as Author:John Paul II or the Portal:Second Vatican Council or the Portal:Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples. For example, the Prayer to Saint Michael is by Author:Leo XIII, and the Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary is of unknown authorship, originating in eigth-century Italy. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:22, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

I just copy the entry from worldcat.org or from archive.org. I'm not knowledgeable enough to do more than that. I certainly don't mind if somebody else changes the authorship. Bobdole2021 (talk) 09:58, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

In that case, if you don't know the actual author, just leave the author field blank :) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:30, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

File:FiftySpiritualHomiliesOfStMacarius.djvu

Can you provide full {{book}} information for this? and which IA document this is? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:31, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

You can find it here: https://archive.org/details/FiftySpiritualHomiliesOfStMacarius/page/n1/mode/2up Bobdole2021 (talk) 23:03, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

File:BasilAsceticalWorks.djvu and Index:BasilAsceticalWorks.djvu

See the concern I posted at WS:CV . There was apparently a renewal. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:49, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

File:Spiritualcombat.djvu

Is there a reason that File:Spiritualcombat.djvu was uploaded here rather than at Commons? It looks as though the translation was published anonymously over 120 years ago, which would make it public domain in the EU as well as the US. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:55, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

I've always uploaded .djvu files here and images to Commons. But sure I can start uploading all files to Commons that are PD-old. Bobdole2021 (talk) 00:59, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

Any scans that are public domain in both the US and the country of origin should always be uploaded to Commons. That way, they are available to everyone, and not just en.WS. We typically load files locally only if they are not in public domain in their source country, but are PD in the US. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:10, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

All author links should be local

Hi. Please do not override local author links in {{header}} and point them to Wikipedia, such is against local policy. All author pages should be local. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:38, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

File:Bookofsaintsofet00yait.djvu

In March last year you uploaded File:Bookofsaintsofet00yait.djvu locally on enWS (instead of Commons) without adding information and license templates. Why a local upload? And we do need proper information and licensing templates for all files, among other things to determine copyright status. For example, this scan appears to be indicating a 1928 publication date which would tend to make it still be in copyright in the US until at least next year (general US term is publication date + 95 years, counted from the end of the year). Xover (talk) 11:10, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

I got the file from here: https://archive.org/details/bookofsaintsofet00yait/page/n345/mode/2up

I probably thought it was public domain at the time, and I wasn't all the familiar with Commons so I just uploaded it locally. Feel free to remove it. Bobdole2021 (talk) 17:54, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

Images, Commons, etc.

Dominus tecum! I want to thank you for all of the prayer books and other Catholic works you have uploaded and worked on. I haven't figured out book processing beyond Index pages and fairly basic proofreading (always learning!)--transclusion, etc., are beyond me, so I am especially grateful for your work on these books.

I just categorized some images you recently uploaded for Blessed Be God over at Commons. Some of them were duplicates of images you had previously uploaded.

Do you know how to extract high-res images from the jp2 files at archive.org? You can find instructions here: Help:Image extraction. I downloaded some of the images for Blessed Be God to attempt to edit them for upload to Commons and use in the book to replace the low-res ones from the djvu, but I am not really able to do that kind of image processing because of some vision problems. You can replace the low-res ones at |Commons Category:Blessed be God by simply clicking on "Upload a new version of this file" on the File's page at Commons.

Also, in general you should always categorize any files you upload to Commons. If you don't know how to do that, or how to create new Categories, please ask: I will help. (Unlike here at WS, uncategorized files at Commons are considered a big problem.)

It's also quite simple to move the files you have previously uploaded to WS over to Commons, both images and djvu/pdf. There is a link at the top of the File page called "export to commons" (it may be elsewhere depending on which skin you are using). It would be really helpful if you would go through your uploads here (ask if you need help getting a list) and move them to Commons (and categorize them!).

Finally, it would also be really helpful if you would upload files with a more descriptive name than the filename from archive.org. If you know of a policy to the contrary, please share it.

I deeply appreciate your efforts. I wish I could devote more time and energy to WS and am trying to do a few pages each day. J.M.J. Laura1822 (talk) 16:45, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

Et cum spíritu tuo.

Thank you for your kind words and your editing skills. I think you're more thorough than me. I'm quite lazy about doing things well. However it's handy to know I can get the images straight from the file rather than my current method of copying the image from the webpage into Gimp and cropping it.

Generally, these old prayer books are great. It's a blessing for me to transcribe the material and pray them myself. There is a lot of duplication of material between books, so I've also been lazy about finishing them lately. Bobdole2021 (talk) 18:57, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

You will still have to crop and process the images. It's just that the jp2 images are much higher resolution, so they will look nicer.

I am trying to make working on several of these works as part of my personal theological studies (a never-ending task). For example, I've been trying to get around to reading Liguori's works for over a year. Ditto St. Teresa of Avila and other Doctors of the Church. And also these prayer books, old missals, and chant books. I tend to collect the djvu/pdfs obsessively, but I've been lazy about actually using them.

I tend to get a little obsessive about making things look perfect, which is sometimes wasted energy since individual readers will reformat them anyway. But I've always had an obsession with page layout. I'm also a bit of a grammar and spelling perfectionist which makes the OCR errors pop out at me. You are able to get through a lot more pages than I am, and quantity matters.

Another tool you might try is the WikisourceMono font. It is based on the proofreading font used at Project Gutenberg, with a few tweaks for our needs. It makes it really easy to spot "scannos" (like typos). More info here: Wikisource:WikisourceMono.

When you move files over to Commons, you don't have to worry about updating links. The software will do that for you.

I hope you find my suggestions helpful. Laura1822 (talk) 19:31, 10 July 2023 (UTC)

Uh I'm using a weak mobile hotspot cast to a laptop to do this work... a 1.2G jp2 download isn't happening.

Praying to/off a laptop screen is a little weird, but it works for me. I use these prayer books every day.

I'll check out the WikisourceMono font. Bobdole2021 (talk) 03:57, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

If I upload the cropped high-res (jp2) files to Commons, could you do the processing? I'm not sure what needs doing. Make the background transparent, maybe make them 2-bit (black & white)?

Moving files to Commons does not require any bandwidth on your end, it's all on wikimedia's end. Laura1822 (talk) 19:00, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Single page edits are easy enough. Sure I could do that. Bobdole2021 (talk) 04:47, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

I managed to extract all of the images for Blessed Be God and upload them to Commons. I also attempted to export the book itself to Commons, and rename it there. However, that did not go nearly as smoothly as I expected (based on my experiences at other wikis) and the original file (with old filename) is still here and being used for the index and pages. I have asked for help but I may have made a mess. I don't think anything is broken, but will let you know my progress.

Anyway, the images that I extracted may need further processing. I cropped them and converted them to 2-bit (b&w) and did some minimal cleanup on a few images, but I did not attempt to make them transparent, if that is necessary. I am unable to see the images properly when they are transparent, so I can't edit them that way. But maybe it's unnecessary.

I am attempting to update pages that point to the old files, and add them to new pages as I create them.

I haven't yet uploaded the borders for the calendar pages. That will take some more work. I may also have missed an image somewhere. Laura1822 (talk) 21:42, 24 July 2023 (UTC)

Great... but of course you are welcome to update any images yourself. I tend to get distracted by other projects, hoping that others will finish the books I start. Nevertheless Blessed Be God is fantastic material. I will do my best to give it more time. Bobdole2021 (talk) 00:05, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I see the problem. The source tab doesn't connect to the index. Also you can't edit page by page. Bobdole2021 (talk) 23:38, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

I finally got it fixed. I had to request an admin on Commons to revert it to the original filename. Now the index/previous/next links work again. Sorry for the mess-up, and sorry it took me so long to correct it. Sorry also I haven't been around much lately, trying to get back to proofreading regularly. Laura1822 (talk) 20:30, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

@Laura1822: When texts are exported to ePub to be read on a Kindle, Apple Books, etc. they may end up being displayed on a non-white background (sometimes beige to reduce contrast, sometimes charcoal black for night mode). Images that look fine on the website against a white page background will look really clunky against non-white backgrounds. I therefore recommend that any image that is supposed to blend into the background be made transparent, and that you check it against a dark background before upload.

If you use an image editor that supports layers this can be done by adding a temporary layer filled with a solid color below the main image layer, and then deleting it before exporting to the final output format. This is useful in general when editing images with transparent areas (as you note, these are hard to see on your screen otherwise). Xover (talk) 07:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. I am unable to process transparent images because of my visual impairment. I have to set my colors to something similar to high contrast with black background and light text (I'm able to tweak some colors). This means that I simply cannot see the transparency in my editing software (irfanview) because it ends up being white on white or black on black and I cannot work with it.

As you noted to Bob below, I did go through the jp2 images at archive.org and extracted all of the high-res images I could find. I then cropped them as needed and uploaded them to Commons in the book's category, but I cannot do any further editing on them. Laura1822 (talk) 14:14, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

@Bobdole2021: If all you need is a single page you don't need to download the entire scan. On the Internet Archive you can click "Show All" in the right sidebar thingy to get a listing of all the files, and the _jp2.zip will have an extra "View Contents" link that lists the individual page images. I strongly recommend going there when extracting images for quality reasons (long and technical explanation available on request). Xover (talk) 07:27, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation links need to be local

Hi. Please do not add links to Wikipedia on our disambiguation pages as done at Author:John Dalton. If the author page is missing, then please create it locally per Help:Author pages. Thanks. If you have questions then please ask at WS:S. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:24, 17 September 2023 (UTC)