Template talk:Ppoem

Headings

On Page:The works of Christopher Marlowe - ed. Dyce - 1859.djvu/75

The heading markup was not recognised. I assume this is a design choice, and it can be worked around. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:43, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Italics

Could we have the same shorthand from table style for poem style? e.g. it for italics Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 00:37, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

@Zoeannl generally, ppoem is trying to avoid explicit inline CSS, whether directly or via a shorthand (actually, especially via a shorthand, as {{ts}} is a huge mess). Usually, formatting on poems is shared amongst all or many poems in a work, so you can define a class, and apply that to the poem, stanza or line in question and then style that with an appropriate CSS rule in the CSS. This has the benefit of being re-usable, as well as semantically meaningful. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 17:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

Suppressing the default hanging indent

Is there a way to suppress or modify the default hanging indent on individual lines? Chrisguise (talk) 17:12, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

@Chrisguise: Hmm. Lines can have a {class} prefix that will add that class to the line's container, and then you can target that class from CSS (for example the per-work / Index CSS) and set the combination of margin/text-indent you need. What's your use-case? Xover (talk) 21:46, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

Hi,

I will take your word for that - I have no knowledge of HTML programming.

I have a couple of instances.

1) I've done a lot of Algernon Charles Swinburne's poetry and, in some cases, if I had used {{ppoem}}, a line wrap of 4em would have been too much compared to how the work is printed.

2) I'm doing work on Shakespeare's first folio. I had been using <poem>, which works fine (once you get the hang of which templates put in extra blank lines and which don't) but I recently switched to {{ppoem}}, as I'd encountered a couple of instances where a line continues across two pages. Most of the text is in verse, which works fine, but some is just prose. Using <poem> I had been doing this without line breaks so that the text wraps itself, which works, but with {{ppoem}} it puts in the hanging indent, which isn't present in the text. I could use line breaks per the printed text, or keep dropping in and out of {{ppoem}} as required, but I thought I'd ask the question ....... Chrisguise (talk) 01:19, 7 March 2022 (UTC)

pline

The pline template only appears to partly work with ppoem. {{pline|10|r}} renders correctly but {{pline|10|l}} does not. The line number appears mid-way through the line, as if it is being offset to the right of the start of the line, rather than to the left of it. Chrisguise (talk) 07:56, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

@Chrisguise ppoem isn't designed to use {{pline}}, as it has built-in support for the <<< and >>> syntax. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 09:35, 1 May 2022 (UTC)

It seems a bit odd that while introducing a better means to format poems (which {{ppoem}} is), it should reduce useful functionality elsewhere (e.g. the use of pline, with its inbuilt 'anchor' capability and less distracting formatting, compared to the plain numbering with ppoem). I haven't tried applying formatting to the number in ppoem yet, but it's just more work if that's what's required.

Incidentally, the 'errata' mark-up also doesn't work properly with ppoem. See the difference between the errata in Demeter and other poems/To the Marquis of Dufferin and Ava, which uses <poem></poem>, and Demeter and other poems/To Mary Boyle, which uses {{ppoem}}. Chrisguise (talk) 05:06, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Author or title links in {{ppoem}}

I intermittently get instances where author links or title links in {{ppoem}} won't work and I can't figure out what combination of things it is that causes this. My latest example is Page:Sketch of Connecticut, Forty Years Since.djvu/27. The link from the first line to an anchor in the poem text works, but the author link to Robert Burns and the general title link at the end of the poem extract don't. When the problem happens, it's always following either >> or >>>, but it doesn't consistently fail. Chrisguise (talk) 15:41, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Chrisguise: Long story short: Special:Diff/12515917. Xover (talk) 20:57, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for that - although I'm sure I tried that myself. Heigh-ho. Chrisguise (talk) 21:52, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Unnecessary line break with dropinitial

In the poem below

A short line
A very long second line

the width of the container doesn't increase to accommodate the second line, introducing unnecessary line break. Alnaling (talk) 17:03, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

@Alnaling sadly this is a known issue (under "Disadvantages", this is what prompted "Dropinitials can sometimes cause a line to wrap prematurely"). HTML and CSS seem to be very resistant to allowing this work robustly. Sometimes one wishes for the simpler days of moveable type! Ideas for fixing this in a robust way are very welcome. Inductiveload—talk/contribs 22:24, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the noise, I didn't notice that this disadvantage was listed. Alnaling (talk) 09:46, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Option for manual centring

In a poem interrupted by regular text, the centring will not be the same on both sides if the {{ppoem}} tag is used twice. Perhaps a good way to deal with this would be to allow manually setting the width of a ppoem. I am using <poem> inside a {{center block}}, currently, but I would much rather use {{ppoem}} if I could!

For example,
This poem has a line which is quite long—

Then here is some regular text.

And here, the
poem continues,
with different centring.

Raketsla (talk) 16:38, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Indented first line

For poems with an indented first line, this templates seems to remove all initial whitespace. For example this poem:

Ut vulpia adulatio,
Nun in der Werlde blyket,
   Sic hominis est ratio
Gelyk dem vosse geschicket.

Is this a limitation of templates, automatically removing initial whitespace from all parameters? --Yodin^T 12:58, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

@Yodin: Yes, removing leading and trailing whitespace is a limitation of all templates (it's base MediaWiki behaviour).

But in this particular case: ppoem has its own little microlanguage for poem formatting, but you seem to be treating it as if it was any other template. Try

{{ppoem|
:Ut vulpia adulatio,
Nun in der Werlde blyket,
:Sic hominis est ratio
Gelyk dem vosse geschicket.
}}

instead. The ":" is for creating just this kind of indentation in poems.

Note that for ppoem I recommend the somewhat-unusual-for-a-template source code formatting convention you see here, with the template invocation on its own line, and the same for the closing braces. It makes it a lot more clear what is actually going on there, especially when you start adding |start= and |end= to the template call. --Xover (talk) 09:01, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Thanks :) I did notice the difference between : (non breaking em spaces?) and spaces (non breaking spaces), and thought that the original spacing was a bit less than 1em. But trying out the : method, 1em does seem about right (and as you say looks much clearer!) I'll look over the rest of the syntax as it looks like a much better way to format poems! --Yodin^T 11:46, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Template missing basic examples.

In my work, this template's default center is always sufficient, but in case of this page, where the poem is not centered, I resorted to an unorthodox approach. I used the {{left}} template with a 4em offset from the margin with newline, but I would rather learn to use this template properly. I looked all the examples, and also checked "What links here", but found none that would demonstrate how to apply the parameters. — ineuw (talk) 06:21, 2 March 2024 (UTC)