Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

Unspaced page end for references

Hello all,

While transcluding Index:Early western travels, 1748-1846 (Vol 1 1904).djvu, there are a few places where a ref-follow has no text on the page where the reference tags are placed, e.g. Page:Early western travels, 1748-1846 (Vol 1 1904).djvu/62 and Page:Early western travels, 1748-1846 (Vol 1 1904).djvu/63. For the moment, so that the <ref></ref> tags on the former page are not empty, I have used noinclude within the ref tags, which leads to a space being included just before the first word in the reference text, once transcluded (see the last reference of Early Western Travels, 1748-1846/Volume 1/Croghan to the Governor of Pennsylvania for an example; and yes, I realise this space is not the end of the world, but it would be nice to remove). Thus, my question, how troublesome would it be to convert the {{upe}} template to something that would work in references (or to allow hws/hwe to have an empty first parameter), unless anyone has other simple suggestions for how to deal with this?

I also wasn't sure if I should modify it myself, but when looking through the help on footnotes, I read the following Other parts of the footnote should use the "follow" parameter with the same name. The position of this text does not matter to the footnote but adding it to the bottom of the page, where the footnote would normally be, is the most obvious position. Make sure that it is a part of the page that will be transcluded with the rest of the footnote: ie. not in the header or footer of the Page, not in tags, and—if sectional transclusion is being used—in the same section as the rest of the footnote (so all parts are transcluded into the same page in the main namespace). While perhaps correct that the position of the ref-follow does not matter to the footnote, unless I have misinterpreted something, a ref-follow placed at the end of a page with paragraphs created in the conventional sense (i.e. pressing enter), will incorrectly insert a line break at the start of the transcluded page. Thus, ref-follows should be placed at the top of the page body section (which also helps with sectional texts, as the ref-follow would typically be transcluded with the first section on the page).

Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:43, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

I just tried using a nop, but that didn't work. The solution I would use is to bring the footnotes back from /63 and leave that page blank. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

noinclude and includeonly tags don't work in a ref. I've replaced it by a comment.--M-le-mot-dit (talk) 08:45, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I agree with Beeswaxcandle: this is just exactly a case for a pragmatic solution rather than chasing a "perfect" one. Move the contents of the ref to the page where it's referenced, and leave a comment on both pages to explain what you've done (<!-- comment here -->). Xover (talk) 09:31, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

I don't think you should worry that much about the leading space (I don't think it copies anyway). If you're really insistent on getting rid of it, you can put {{nop}} into the {{hws}} and {{hwe}} templates; if you put e.g. {{hwe|{{nop}}|Governor|hyph=}} on the first page and {{hws|Governor|Governor|hyph=}} on the second page, the text should transclude correctly without a leading space (the first transcludes as "Governor", the second doesn't transclude). (FWIW, as an alternative to M-le-mot-dit's solution of putting a comment into the first <ref>, on another page I put a dummy ref-follow in the footer with {{nop}} in it, but both of these give the leading space.) Arcorann (talk) 12:58, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

@Arcorann,@Beeswaxcandle,@M-le-mot-dit,@Xover Thanks all for the suggestions. M-le-mot-dit's seemed to work, a comment in the leading reference tag didn't create a leading space on the transcluded page, without having to move any text. Tempted to call it perfect and pragmatic. Although I never said I was chasing a perfect solution, moving text can be an unnecessary complication, but all sorted now at any rate. Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:15, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

Only a small chance this suggestion is useful, but here goes. For a different purpose (and if I recall correctly with the guidance of Billinghurst), I used a different method of creating notes in History of Oregon Newspapers/The Pioneer Period. (I'm not done, but the first 68 notes follow this format.) It's pretty fiddly and I can't say I fully get how it works, but if you follow the example of those pages you should be able to figure it out. Whether it's worth your time or not, I'm not sure :) I believe that code is intended for a case like I used it in (endnotes on a different page), and I have a hunch there might be a way to adapt it to your use case (though it might involve reworking the entire book). -Pete (talk) 06:57, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Redirect an author page

I would like to redirect Author:Armitage Trail to Author:Maurice R. Coons, because Trail is a pen name. How can I do that? This is for the book Scarface, which I just finished validating. -- FPTI (talk) 06:28, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@FPTI: You follow the red link, delete the pre-filled content of the text box (the author template), go to the Advanced section of the editor toolbar, pick the button with the icon of an arrow swooping down and to the right, and then fill in the destination page. OR, you can simply type in #REDIRECT [[Author:Maurice R. Coons]]. Xover (talk) 06:52, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Apparent 'overloading' of Template:RunningHeader

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns0=1&ns100=1&ns102=1&ns104=1&ns106=1&ns114=1&search=insource%3A%2F%5C%7B%5C%7B%28rh%7Crunningheader%29%5C%7C%5C%7C%5C%3Cmath%2F

I updated {{MathForm2}} and these uses should be migrated over, using |talign=end or suitable equivalent to obtain the same rendering as the RH approach.

The objective desired is to de overload uses RunningHeader, so that pending changes to it are potentially easier to do without unexpected side effects. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:37, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I have no idea what it is that you're saying here. Quite possibly that's just me being dumb, but could you try explaining again with a little more detail; especially as regards what is the problem that exists now, and what is the outcome you're looking for? Xover (talk) 11:11, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

The current problem is that RunningHeader is used in some works for formatting a three-cell table, or even more specfic an equation+number format. (something it wasn't technically designed for.).

The desired objective is replacing these usages with something more appropriate ( I'd updated {{MathForm1}} and {{MathForm2}} as they were intended for the use case concerned ).

An example replacement:-

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Aerial_Flight_-_Volume_1_-_Aerodynamics_-_Frederick_Lanchester_-_1906.djvu/147&diff=prev&oldid=14147459

I can work through these slowly but would appreciate a joint effort.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00 And then there is {{Numb form}}, and then there is .... I think these template are known by 0.1% of the users and used by 0.01%. I would like to see pro/cons of the different solutions before spreading templates. I think we already have enough. Less templates and more general-purpose is the way to go IMHO. Mpaa (talk) 21:12, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

So which one should I be converting to? I am more than happy to standardise on ONE usage across a work or works. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 06:45, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

As I said, I do not know. So for now I would not do anything.

It seems to me that rh is the more natural choice for a user, it is short, written as the text flows, anybody is familiar with it, etc.

This syntax is verbose and not intuitive: {{MathForm2|talign=end|2=<math>x = \frac{3}{4} \times \frac{\cos \beta}{4 + \pi \sin \beta} \times l ,</math>|1=(2)}} and I do not know if that template is a good implementation or not. Mpaa (talk) 08:55, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

For whatever that's worth, I have on my todo list to look into {{MathForm1}} and {{MathForm2}} and {{Numb form}} and {{disp right}} as well as the several other templates that are used for this kind of thing, with a view to finding one sensible replacement for all of them. {{numbered equation}} is a very embryonic first draft of an approach to explore what would work well (not a proposed solution/replacement; just a start at figuring out what the replacement should look like). And hopefully we can usefully abstract out some of the generic parts of {{rh}} to reuse for this and a couple of other use cases (quoted letters with salutations and dates, signatures, etc.). Xover (talk) 09:10, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

These are some possible uses of Running Header outside of Page namespace that should be taken into consideration:-

https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=500&offset=0&ns0=1&ns1=1&ns6=1&ns7=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns100=1&ns101=1&ns102=1&ns103=1&ns106=1&ns107=1&ns114=1&ns115=1&ns710=1&ns711=1&ns828=1&ns829=1&search=insource%3A%2F%5C%7B%5C%7B%28rh%7Crf%7Crunningheader%7Crunning+header%29%2F

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:27, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

Help is asked for with a CSS selector

I am trying to configure my User:Ineuw/vector.css to view the main namespace text with the following selector, and I am unable to get it right. Can someone in the know, help me with this?

/* main namespace page */
#mw-page-base #bodyContent{
	font-family:FreeSerif !important;
	font-size: large !important;
}

— ineuw (talk) 18:41, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

FreeSerif is a great font, you have good taste.

Adding a comma in between the two ID selectors should get it to work, but in all namespaces. I'm not sure how to select for a specific namespace. Cremastra (talk) 21:35, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

@user:Cremastra Thanks for the help, but like you said it affects everything. I tried every selector of the main namespace just to target the page content. I am now trying other selectors. — ineuw (talk) 07:39, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

I think that ws-page-container is only in Main. This should target only the pages tag. (In the page namespace, it's prp-page-container instead). — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 10:50, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

@user:Alien333, Hurrah, and thank you! It is as I hoped. Interestingly my vector.css uses .mw-editform for page namespace selectors and not .prp-page-container. — ineuw (talk) 20:02, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Not sure if this is what you were wondering, but prp-page-container is for viewing (in page ns, next to the image and all) and mw-editform is for editing (in all namespaces). — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 20:11, 2 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes, this is exactly what I wanted to understand. I must return to the Wikimedia kindergarten. Thanks again.

Transcluding a work - index has quotes in the page name

I was trying to transclude Index:"Red"·Fed·Memoirs-Hickey-1925.pdf.

I get an "Error: No such index" when I try. I think that is because of the quotes as part of the index page name.

Is there a way to transclude it as it is, or is something else required, such as renaming the index. David Nind (talk) 00:31, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Quote it in single quotes: index='"Red"·Fed·Memoirs-Hickey-1925.pdf' MarkLSteadman (talk) 01:06, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

That worked! Thank you, very much appreciated! David Nind (talk) 02:46, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

If you ever have to transclude an index whose name has both single and double quotes, you can replace the quotes in the name with " or ' as appropriate. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 20:07, 4 May 2024 (UTC)

Pages on ProofreadPage look bad, pages in PDF look fine

The index in question is Index:The Hindu-Arabic numerals (IA hinduarabicnumer00smitrich).pdf; sample at Page:The Hindu-Arabic numerals (IA hinduarabicnumer00smitrich).pdf/14. For some reason the page images look terrible, but when I download the PDF it looks fine, how do we get better images? Arcorann (talk) 11:41, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Now compare Page:The Hindu-Arabic Numerals (1911).djvu/14. It's a combination of IA over-compressing their PDFs, MediaWiki generally doing much worse on extracting images and text layer from PDFs, and MediaWiki having pathologically bad image quality results on some PDFs. The bottom line is: always use DjVu if at all possible. Xover (talk) 05:46, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks. I lost a bit of confidence in DjVu after seeing the DjVu compression corrupt a scan, but this one seems fine (haven't checked in detail). Arcorann (talk) 12:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

That was a single pathological case brought on by waay too aggressive compression settings and over-optimization. There is a general problem with PDFs (as above), and combined with some other issues with the format and tooling I strongly recommend preferring DjVu whenever possible. Xover (talk) 18:15, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this. DJVU is also an open format, and though they admittedly might not be all that user friendly, there are more/better free tools available for manipulating them. -Pete (talk) 20:08, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Help with Score extension

There are a couple things I'm not sure how to do for Page:The English and Scottish Popular Ballads, Volume 10.djvu/139. First, is there a way to use straight quotes in lyrics (to match the style of the rest of the work)? Second, how can I display the D.S. al fine in "The Fair Flower of Northumberland"? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 16:31, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

For the first you can escape the quotes. e.g.` "\"Oh," whare are ye "gaun,\"" ` MarkLSteadman (talk) 17:11, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 17:15, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

For the latter, look up Dal Segno in the Lillypond manual. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:16, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Hmm, version 2.22 doesn't seem to have anything for dal segno, so I may need to wait until we're using version 2.25. —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 17:40, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

We will never have version 2.25. The odd numbered versions are the experimental ones. It will be version 2.26. In the meantime we need to use the Rehearsal Mark technique, which doesn't replicate in the midi file. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:50, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I'd think we could get the repeat in the MIDI file by adding a repeat and overriding the bars so they don't display, but just adding \bar "|" before the repeat doesn't seem to override the ".|:" bar. Do you know if that can be done with some more complicated syntax? —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 21:38, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

Some questions

1. JS scripts seem to be imported (or executed) in a inconsistent order, which, when multiple scripts add sidebar buttons, causes fumbling every time to find where exactly this time are the buttons. Is there a way to change that?
2. For poems, it can be hard to determine if there is or not a stanza break on a page break, when there is: a) no clear stanza pattern, b) no special tendency for stanzas to end with sentences, and c) no other edition of the same poem. The first two tend to disappear for more modern poetry and the third is rarely available (and disputable anyway). Is there another way to find it?
3. Policy says to always implement footnotes and endnotes with ref tags (or something to that effect). Often, footnotes use asterisks and I couldn't find a way to make ref use them. It could be done by manually putting an anchor on the footnote, and a link to the anchor, and transcluding the two separately, but it's quite a bother. Someone probably has encountered the same issue before, so there must be a better way to do it lurking around somewhere.

Thanks, — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 13:30, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

For (2), you have to use your best judgment; there's no way around that. I face the same issue in poetic dramas I've transcribed. The points you've listed are the same ones I use to make that call when it's unclear. The fact that you're giving it thought and attention is what's most important.

With regard to (3), we do not attempt to reproduce the symbols used for footnotes / endnotes in the original copy, for multiple reasons. If you hunt around, there have been several essays written on the subject over the years. Simply let the software generate a number. from the ref tags, and don't spend time fretting over the displayed number versus an asterisk. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:56, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Just wanted to mention that large numbers of references all marked identically with * isn't a good UX, considering the way we transclude entire chapters as flowing text with the notes at the end, typically. For situations like see Note * on page ... it is possible to link etc. MarkLSteadman (talk) 17:13, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Regarding #1, the short answer is no. There is a longer answer involving using custom events to chain them or manually coordinating menu position, but they're not good solutions. Xover (talk) 17:05, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Using fromsection correctly

At the following page, I am trying to use fromsection to limit the included section on the starting page, but for some reason nothing is included from the first page. Can I get some assistance on how fromsection should be used correctly?

Weird Tales/Volume 1/Issue 3/The Haunted and the Haunters

Klaufir216 (talk) 13:28, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Found the problem, it was due to the {{c}}, not fromsection. You opened it before the section break and closed it after. I'm not exactly sure how it works, but having the section break included in a template probably causes it not be parsed correctly, so the pages tag resorts to the usual method with unknown begins, it starts at the end of the page (which is why you still had the [70] pagenumber on the left, because it techically includes something from that page, it's just empty). — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 13:50, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

Score music needed

Could someone familiar with how score music works here please add a short one at the end of Page:Fiddler's Farewell.djvu/101? (despite the fact that it's not straight, it is part of the work as I also found it when the poem got published in a magazine) Thanks, — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 07:24, 11 May 2024 (UTC) EDIT: I cobbled up something that seems to work, but I'd still appreciate if someone could take a look. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 09:31, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Done! —CalendulaAsteraceae (talk • contribs) 21:38, 11 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 08:24, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

How to delete a page created by mistake?

I have created Weird_Tales/Volume_2/Issue_1/ by mistake. Since then I have created the correct page Weird_Tales/Volume_2/Issue_1 with the same content. How can I correct my mistake and remove Weird_Tales/Volume_2/Issue_1/? Klaufir216 (talk) 17:44, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Put {{sdelete|G7}} at the top (for more info about this, see WS:CSD and Template:Sdelete). Note: When you create a page at the wrong place, instead of deleting the old one and creating a new one, you can move (rename) it by going in the "Page" menu at the top right. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 18:39, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

If you do move a page like this (i.e. quickly after creation), please mark the old title as {{sdelete|M2}}. That way we can delete the wrong title. This criterion only applies within a week of creation. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 10:12, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Will keep in mind, thanks a lot! Klaufir216 (talk) 20:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Failing page parser when creating index

I wanted to create an index of a file in Hebrew Wikisource, but the server fails to parse the file for the list of pages. It seems that there's the same error in English: Index:Ketav Sofer al haTorah.pdf. What is my mistake? Drkazmer (talk) 17:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

The pagelist is a tag and must therefore be opened with < and closed with />. In your case, there was </ pagelist >, which doesn't work (technically, it'd be a closing tag, and then you're missing the opening tag). I fixed it, normally, though you still need to put a pagelist (as of now, it's empty). — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 18:24, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it! It may be a bug due to the right-to-left nature of Hebrew, because in case of my previous upload I didn't have such problem at all. Drkazmer (talk) 18:43, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Huh, so much for me. I also, as a matter of routine after that discussion, purged the file on commons, and it might be that, though it didn't appear to have immediate effect. EDIT: Could you translate me the error message? (I don't speak Hebrew). If it's that whole purging thing, the error should be "Invalid Interval" — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 18:45, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Looks like the Index at Hebrew Wikisource is working fine, and proofreading has started. Cremastra (talk) 23:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Some piece of the voodooing I did to it fixed the pagelist. — Alien333 (what I did & why I did it wrong) 05:23, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

DOI help

The DOI links for Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 1 are weird and are not actually linking properly on Talk:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 1 or Index:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 1.png. Can I have some assistance with fixing that? Also, I'm still newer to the whole page/index aspect on Wikisource, so can someone check over Page:Monthly Weather Review, Volume 1, Issue 1.png to see if I did it properly? WeatherWriter (talk) 21:01, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

As far as the index: You've transcribed library annotations from the bottom. Typically, we don't transcribe writing added after the work was printed, whether library markings, stamps, book plates, etc. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:17, 23 May 2024 (UTC)

I fixed the first and second link on the page (missing the l in xml and escaping the [ and ]). MarkLSteadman (talk) 23:41, 23 May 2024 (UTC)