From Wikisource
Jump to: navigation, search
Scriptorium Scriptorium (Help) Archives, Last archive
The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel webclient.

This page is automatically archived by Wikisource-bot

Have you seen our help pages and FAQs?

Purpose of Running Header[edit]

Will someone please explain the purpose of inputting the running header information when this information is not transcluded into the finished product. This would also be for the inputting of page number, say at the beginning of a chapter, into the footer. I have looked throughout the help documentation, and user and wikisource talk pages, yet am unable to see the reasoning behind this exercise. I'm sure there is something. Humbug26 (talk) 16:07, 4 September 2015 (UTC)

Once transcluded, the original pages are still accessible by link to each page. We want users to be able to examine the original alongside our version for comparison. Page numbers are not the only item that changes upon transclusion. For instance, we do no transclude the hyphen from words that are split across two pages, but merge them back into a single word once transcluded. The running header just makes this process easier.
Note also that the running header template is occasionally used for other formatting purposes, so I have assumed in answering that your question only pertains to its use in the header / footer within the Page namespace. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:11, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your quick response. Yes, my question did in fact refer to the page namespace. I just found that this constant typing of information was a bit much considering that it seemed only to be making the page look "pretty". One more question: if this information is for a more technical reason, do we really need to be applying formatting, like italics and smaller/larger templates, or will just the words do? I recently processed a book with italicized heading and that was a real chore. Humbug26 (talk) 16:27, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
Note that there are ways of semi-automating the header field in the Page: namespace. See the paragraph on the header field in Help:Index pages#Parameters for one way. The other way I use is through a script in my common.js. There is a version of this at Wikisource:TemplateScript.

With respect to the question about formatting: Help:Page numbers, uses the words "can be used". I personally don't see the need for an exact reproduction of the style of running header on each page. Other editors, however, do try to get it as close as possible, so to avoid extra handling of pages for the sole purpose of the "pretties" I tend to include the formatting too. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:40, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Footnotes with different labels[edit]

Is it possible to have footnotes use something else than numbers? I'm using a footnote in a numbered list, and I'd rather have the footnote with "a" than "1". See The Book of the Thousand Nights and One Night/Volume 6. The documentation for {{reflist}} mentions the liststyle parameter, but that would only change the list, not the footnote mark in the text, and it didn't work when I tried anyway. unsigned comment by Jellby (talk) .

we don't change the style between works, the numeric is the site style. As our works are transcluded and resultingly have end notes rather than footnotes, the numeric is a better plus with the WMF style, when a ref is reused the alphabetical are used to signify the repeats. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:24, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
What you're adding is an annotation of your own, and this is generally discouraged. I'm also curious why you didn't transclude the contents from the book, but instead duplicated their content. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:46, 6 September 2015 (UTC)
I was thinking that the annotation could be added as a note to the header field for the particular subpage/story, rather than as a user annotation on the table of contents. As a pointer, *if* an annotation is necessary, then we would usually utilise {{user annotation}}. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:11, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: I did transclude the contents from the book (in a "collapsed" box), but sometimes the titles in the contents don't match the actual titles in the text, and the same with the nesting. I wanted to provide a more consistent table of contents. Also, creating the an independent table of contents means I don't have to introduce links to Wikisource pages in the page context (I don't know if that's en- or discouraged, but I don't feel it's right). @Billinghurst: Thanks for the {{user annotation}} tip, I should indeed use it. I may remove the annotations later and place them in the headers, as you suggest, but until I reach Volume 6 this is a reminder for me (and it's not that bad for the work, is it?) Jellby (talk) 18:25, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
@Jellby: Supplementary thought, and a means to add (internal) relevance to the user annotation would be to add a link to the alternate named work in volume 4, if it exists, or to the corresponding vol. 4 ToC. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:56, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Equals symbol breaks my edit[edit]

In Page:Aboriginesofvictoria02.djvu/65 there are 2 equals symbol at the bottom of the page. These cause a problem in that whenever I apply a formatting template, the sentence is rendered as {{{1}}}. I did a search of the Scriptorium but was not able to turn up any hints for how to overcome this problem. Thanks, Maria Pixelwarrior (talk) 06:54, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Keep the equal signs within double curly braces. Hrishikes (talk) 07:00, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
This really is an adjunct to Hrishikes remarks: See {{=}} for one approach. Another is demonstrated on your page: choose the innermost formatting template surrounding the offending equals sign and insert "1=" (or whatever is appropriate to that template) in front of the string being formatted. This forces wikisource to treat all of that text up to the first "|" or ""}}" as being a single value not to be further broken down. (In case this is not already obvious the "=" upsets the system because it tries to treat it as a parameter assignment.)

There are other approaches (ask if you are curious) as well but these two are probably simplest in practice. AuFCL (talk) 08:38, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Another alternative is to use the unicode = which is =. This works well with anything when you have a string of characters you can utilise the template {{***}} and use char== with the other settings to get the output that you desire. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:01, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Martha j. Lamb[edit]

"the Christmas owl"--I'm looking for a picture of this book and value

Thanks Walker


Smaller text not displaying as such, Explanation please? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 07:37, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

It is showing up correctly here with "Smaller" being 83% of the font-size of "Normal" (in F/F.) What precisely is the problem you are seeing? AuFCL (talk) 07:50, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
I was seeing them at the same size, Will check local font settings, That's the usual cause :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
I took the liberty of adding two more extreme cases (both of which worked here.) If it turns out a local font setting is overriding I guess they will fail for you as well but at least if they work it proves it is a visual rather than technical effect? AuFCL (talk) 22:04, 11 September 2015 (UTC)
Fwiw... I see three progressively smaller font renderings next to each "normal" setting. I can't reproduce anything like what Shakes is describing either. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:34, 11 September 2015 (UTC)

Template doc doesn't link to the template[edit]

This {{Font-size85%/s/doc}} was created for {{Font-size85%/s}}, but they don't link. Rather the doc points to an old link from which it was copied. — Ineuw talk 23:49, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Fixed it -- you didn't need to point the template using the PAGENAME magic-word. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:03, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, using PAGENAME was my last desperate attempt. I think it was ROOTPAGENAME before that.

Page:Recovery from the passage of an iron bar through the head.djvu/12[edit]

Simple enquiry, whats the symbol charcter?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:28, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

I would hazard the first one is a lowercase Greek XI (ξ=ξ) and the following one is a "Prescription Take" (unicode ℞=℞)? Check with a medico: is Hazmat2 around for example? AuFCL (talk) 08:45, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
On further reflection I wonder if it is an inverted (worse unusual) alchemical symbol for arsenic? Have a look here and see what you think. If so I have no idea how to represent it short of taking an image. AuFCL (talk) 09:05, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
It is ℥ (Apothecaries' ounce); it is followed by xvi (16); therefore it has to be some unit of measurement. Hrishikes (talk) 14:16, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Genius! (unicode ℥=℥ is close to code point 8488 "black-letter capital Z" (ℨ) which looks somewhat similar.) AuFCL (talk) 18:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Translations of UNESCO comics into other languages[edit]

Hi all

I am asking this specifically for a set of comics that UNESCO has produced but I think this can easily applied to many other publications.

UNESCO have released 4 comic books in a series called Women in African History, the first 2 are available on Wikimedia Commons here. The comics are available under CC-BY-SA and the artwork created specially for the publications, they are available in a few other languages which I will upload soon.

They are interested in creating new language versions of the books with the Wikimedia community, what would be the best way of going about this on Wikimedia projects? I am assuming Wikisource or possibly Wikibooks would work best. It would be really nice to find a way to translate the speech bubbles, I have the source InDesign files available.


Mrjohncummings (talk) 14:35, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

@Mrjohncummings: We host any published works that are in the public domain as per the policy Wikisource:What Wikisource Includes, including published translations in the public domain. With regard to foreign language works in the public domain, we have the Translation: namespace, and information about those works is based on the aforementioned policy, and further supported by information at Wikisource:Translations. In short, it sounds like a yes, and those works would be hosted in the Translation namespace. If they are images at Commons, we can provide a side-by-side location to translate the texts in the Page: namespace, and then transclude the works to the Translation namespace for presentation. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:08, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi billinghurst
Thanks very much for your reply, I will upload the other language versions and the images to Commons and then get back to you. Mrjohncummings (talk) 16:08, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
@Mrjohncummings: Not sure how you have these, djvu files or pdf files work best, and if you have them that way then please use the {{book}} template at Commons, as that will allow us to inhale the metadata into our Index: ns templates. If it is groupings of individual components, that will take a little construction to achieve. Thanks. 01:50, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Help Please[edit]

6.34 Watchlist

Somehow I have lost visual contact with messages from my "watchlist". I did it when tinkering with one of the gadgets or something about the watchlist. I had been working on manually deleting some of my many accumulations under watchlist. But I didn't want to delete them all. When now I look at manual editing of the watchlist I see what I did not lose but nothing shows on the watchlist as it used to -- nothing is showing. This what I get when trying a new gadget or working on the raw watchlist. When something is working well I should not try to make something on WS to make things better. Does anyone know how to see my watchlist as I once did again? It shows the option of 1 hour, 2, 3,4 and so forth. I had months worth showing and nw - Nothing, not even edits I did yesterday. Please assist if you know how. I am working of John Cassell's Illustrated History of England vol.1 of 9 vols. Thank you, —Maury (talk) 19:37, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

UGH! —Maury (talk) 02:50, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
How do I get out of the following area? —Maury (talk) 02:55, 14 September 2015 (UTC)
Maury. Best I can suggest is that have mis-edited, and you need to get back to the raw form Special:EditWatchlist/raw and to fix it. It is still there (number of pages) but it is broken somehow with your edits. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:57, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Author death date[edit]

Beatrix potter died in 1943? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:13, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

And this IP's been making a nusiance of themselves on frwiki as well..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:26, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

{{FI}} and image size[edit]

Can someone explain to me, in layman's terms, how sizing works with {{FI}}? An image set at 40% on an index pg is smaller than the image transcluded into the Main... Is it respective of the page it is viewed on? So if someone looks at the MS image on a mobile device, can I assume that the image will take up 40% of their device width? Or is that not how it works? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:44, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Presumably you meant to write Page: not Index:? In which case was it this to which you were referring? {{FI}} uses the width of the enclosing div to establish 100% and bear in mind this is influenced by the chosen Display Option as well as your viewing device size. Thus 40% looks a lot bigger in Display Option/Layout 1 than it does in /Layout 2. Was this what you wanted to know? AuFCL (talk) 12:07, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
This part I can't grasp: "{{FI}} uses the width of the enclosing div to establish 100% ... this is influenced by the chosen Display Option as well as your viewing device size." What do you mean—in other words maybe. Sorry! Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:55, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
If a picture:
|width=400px|{{FI|file=War (Long, 1913) frontispiece.jpg|width=40%}}
|width=200px|{{FI|file=War (Long, 1913) frontispiece.jpg|width=40%}}
|width=100px|{{FI|file=War (Long, 1913) frontispiece.jpg|width=40%}}
←400px→ ←200px→ ←100px→

War (Long, 1913) frontispiece.jpg

War (Long, 1913) frontispiece.jpg

War (Long, 1913) frontispiece.jpg

—is worth a thousand words? AuFCL (talk) 21:58, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
To help me out a bit more, and to answer a previous question: Set at 40%, eg., does the image width then take up 40% of the width of the page of whatever device it is displayed on? Looking at your images above, is it then relative to the size of the device? Is that how it works? Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:09, 26 September 2015 (UTC)
Roughly?: Yes. Precisely?: No. Lets go with sort-of "yes" as good enough for government work. Now go ask somebody else; I don't want to play this particular game any more.AuFCL (talk) 01:07, 27 September 2015 (UTC)


{{FI}} was meant to be the rendering "opposite" of the traditional "File:...." statement that forced a specific width for either a floated or thumbnailed image. If you use it with a percentage, that percentage is computed against the containing block the template is placed on (or placed within).

If this pic is the one in question (a full page image in print) you want to set the width in FI to mimic the original in your digital transcription -- so the width in that instance should reflect the transcribed equivalent of a "full page pic" ~90% to ~100%.

{{FIS}} is for inline images, both wrapped by content or shares a page with text above, below, in between etc.. Better? -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:47, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

To say it as non-technical as I can: webpage layout works by nesting (invisible) boxes inside boxes inside boxes. Your 40% FI takes up 40% of the width of whatever box it is put inside. Often, the box it is inside will be the width of the device, so the FI will take up 40% of the width of the device. However, if the FI is placed inside a table cell, as above, it will take up 40% of the width of the table cell. If it is placed within one of our message boxes or headers etc, it will take up 40% of the width of that. Hesperian 01:52, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Government schooling prepares you for government work. A teacher's exasperation with answering repeated questions is always met with the frustration of a well-intended student for having to ask the questions in the first place. I appreciate the explanations—general to technical. I think I have a better grasp of it now, for my purposes, so I will nod my head and pray I pass the exam! Thanks for playing! ;) Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:41, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Pleas help format a book from year 1625[edit]

Hello! Could someone help me with 17th century formatting?

Hakluytus Posthumus or Purchas His Pilgrimes is a 1906 reprint of a 1625 edition of a compendium of travel literature. It has multiple sidenotes, and I could not figure out how to properly reproduce them. My unsuccessful attempts at formatting are at Hakluytus Posthumus or Purchas His Pilgrimes/Volume 12/Book 2/Chapter 7.

TIA, Tar-ba-gan (talk) 20:54, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

I have converted {{outside R}} to {{outside RL}}, on the first Page: ns page, so that they are all pushed to the left and stop the sawtooth effect. As per the formatting notes for these templates I have put in a left margin. Though noting that the template only works well in Layout 1, and we still need to fix others. You can always try the sidenotes templates in the main namespace if that is your preference. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:22, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Unclear copyrights' status[edit]

Hi Wikisource, I was looking at a text about Galileo. On the opening page it stated that the text was in the public domain. After I clicked and entered the first chapter, on the bottom it was written that it's under the Creative Commons license. Could you help me figure out what's the copyrights' status of the work? Elad189 (talk) 08:34, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

The work is licenced as {{pd/1923|1923}} which puts it in the public domain in the United States and in the United Kingdom. What its copyright status is in your country you will need to check based on the information available. The licence at the bottom of the page is the site licence, about all the contributions, and talks about how you can utilise the version of the work that we have produced from the original. Copyright has levels of complexity and each time there is a new production there is a new version of copyright to aspects. In short, the original work and our rendition have different copyrights, and if you are taking a version from here, you have a level of responsibility to comply with our version per the CC licence. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:57, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

List of Illustrations formatting[edit]

Can someone please take a look at the two pages beginning here and bring them together better (see Mainspace rendering) while also hiding (noincluding) the word "PAGE" on the second page. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:31, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

This what you wanted? AuFCL (talk) 23:52, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
Yup! Thanks much, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:53, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Advance editor toolbar disappears occasionally[edit]

Moved from the Scriptorium

Today's update again killed the advanced editor bar. I am missing the options of opening or closing the header. Sorry Londonjackbooks, I deleted the images a bit too early. — Ineuw talk 23:42, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Just to prove (to myself as well) that I wasn't hallucinating, This image in the top part shows that the toolbar missing, and I managed to bring it back after repeated closing and re-opening the page.— Ineuw talk 07:26, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
I've found this problem as well, sometimes (although I've not seen it with that particular button, but then I never use that one so mightn't have noticed). It may have something to do with the order in which JS files are loaded—in that, the toolbar buttons that are being loaded by external scripts (from wmflabs) sometimes don't load. Perhaps just because they haven't loaded by the time the toolbar starts letting other scripts add themselves to it? But no, you're not hallucinating! :) — Sam Wilson ( TalkContribs ) … 01:32, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments. Feel much relieved. — Ineuw talk 02:18, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Alignment of poems using braces[edit]

Can someone please take a look at the formatting for the following poems (which use braces), and perhaps adjust the formatting so that the alignment is the same for each line:

...and there are currently small spaces between the pages of the TOC (evident in the Main), if someone could take a look at my formatting and see what might fix that. Thank you! Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:21, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

The spacing-with-braces difficulty arises from using a table. The table will necessarily have a spacing around it that cannot be controlled for. When using a table, you are at the mercy of whatever the software and browser decide to do.
For the table of contents, the extra line spacing comes from starting a new table on each page. What you need is a table that spans several pages, so that the fomatting is consistent across the whole. You can accomplish this by opening the second (and third, etc.) pages of the table in the header, and using {{nop}} (on that page and at the bottom of the previous one) to ensure that the new table row starts on a fresh line for the software. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:49, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks; I'll try to tweak the TOC when I get a chance. For the alignment, I used tables for the rest of the poem sections, and it helped. I remembered I had done similarly before. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:38, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
I'll have to look into splitting a table between two pages for In Maximum; there is an unwanted line break betw. pages... but I'm done for the night... Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:46, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
As you had not fully migrated In Maximum I've used it as an experiment for an alternate solution to your unwanted-indent on brace lines problem. If you do not like the result then of course proceed with making it like the others. On Firefox all approaches leave some degree of unwanted padding above and below the brace line (so it stands out like a new paragraph. I can reduce this by playing around with padding and margins but not cleanly eliminate it.)

Oh and after a number of idiotic typos I think the TOC transclusion is now O.K. Back to bed. AuFCL (talk) 06:23, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

It looks great in Chrome, thank you. And thanks for the TOC formatting additions as well. All appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:27, 4 October 2015 (UTC)