From Wikisource
Jump to: navigation, search
Scriptorium Scriptorium (Help) Archives, Last archive
The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel webclient.

This page is automatically archived by Wikisource-bot

Have you seen our help pages and FAQs?

Handling reprints[edit]

I am nearly at the point of transcluding Index:The Rainbow, Lawrence, 1921 reprint.djvu. That is a scan of a 1921 reprint of a 1915 edition. Which of those years should I put in the year= parameter of the {{header}} template? BethNaught (talk) 15:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Edition year counts, not reprint year. Hrishikes (talk) 16:12, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. BethNaught (talk) 17:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Page:The_Adventures_of_Tom_Sawyer.djvu/27 And others.[edit]

I've test formatted this, using an overfloat and it just well, to put bluntly, looks awful.

Suggestions on how to get a good layout would be appreciated, as I'm not sure you can do DTP style 'wraping' around an image in HTML5/CSS. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

So if you cut the image in half horizontally, right under the word "Tom!", you can put the top half of the image as a regular image on the page, and then the bottom "half" floated left, which will allow the words to wrap around it on the right. It will also allow the words to wrap as needed around the bottom of the image once they exceed the height of the illustration on transclusion. (I'd attempt it myself, but my tablet doesn't have any image manipulation programs other than Paint on it.) --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:50, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Old issue; been solved before. Try {{flow under}} and related. AuFCL (talk) 23:19, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Best way to format hanging indent?[edit]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to format a hanging indent for this page: I tried using the {{gap}} template, but it left more spaces than regular paragraphs. Is there a good way to do this? Thanks. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:20, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Maybe the hanging indent template? {{hi}}? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 18:24, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
I also don't see any hanging indent on that page. Do you mean the indented section? For that I would use {{left margin}}. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes, you're correct, it's not an hanging indent, it's a margin. Thank you! Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:38, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
@Rachel Helps (BYU): we don't indent paragraphs. Instead we have a double hard return to create a paragraph space. Explained in Wikisource:Style guide. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:44, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Special:Import stops working[edit]

I wonder why I keep getting the message "Import failed: Could not open import file". when attempting to import something from Old Wikisource. Need someone to fix it.--Jusjih (talk) 01:45, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Several points:
  1. Are you sure this should be posted here, rather than at (say) WS:AN? Most readers of this discussion lack the higher authorisation to be at all familiar with importation and thus any answers (including this one) are likely to be guesswork at best (or meaningless to the other consumers.)
  2. What did you actually do? If special:export/save/import cycle, have you viewed the XML dump and verified it is (reasonably) valid? How many revisions were involved? Too many at once? If another utility was used, which? Is that working elsewhere?
  3. When did this last work, and on what wikis? Have your rights changed since then? Do you need to enable a right or rights group (e.g. transwiki importers) you normally leave dormant?
  4. Finally recall that the current version of mediawiki (1.28.0-wmf.13) was only installed here a couple of days ago. Whilst not mentioned amongst the core changes, undiscovered bugs rarely are… technically even ancient bugs like phab:T8646 are still "open"… AuFCL (talk) 04:45, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Plus giving the live example would be helpful to see if it can be reproduced. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
And it will need to be a fix through a phabricator: request, as there is nothing that we can do to resolve. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:41, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Drawing a very long bow: phab:T140206? AuFCL (talk) 07:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)


I need some help here. I'm still a bit fuzzy on section transclusions. I was trying to follow the setup as in previous proofreading efforts in this book, but somehow I'm still not being quite successful. Before I go any further into this, will someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong. Humbug26 (talk) 18:18, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Cannot see anything wrong.— Mpaa (talk) 20:14, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
It's weird. When I first when to the page, I saw a bit of chapter 26 transcluded in with 25. But then I refreshed and it worked fine. I don't understand what's going on so I'm going to not touch it. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 20:40, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you both for looking at this. The original problem was that the first little bit of Chapter 26 was showing at the bottom of Chapter 25. Even though I clock-purged the index page several times, over more than one day, it didn't seem to clear. Then I thought that because I hadn't "finished" section begins/ends for Chapter 26 (today) that it would show the first bit. But when I sectioned for Chapter 27, it still didn't clear the problem, even again clock-purging the index page. So, whatever happened in the meantime, cleared my concern. Again, thanks. Humbug26 (talk) 20:54, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned page(s)?[edit]

Just tripped over this by accident: Page:John F. Kennedy Choate Studies Letter - NARA - 192825.tif

It looks like a regular page transcription... but it has no Index associated with it. It's got an image, so clearly it's associated with something over in commons. What's going on?

-- Mukkakukaku (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Just made an Index. But I am not even sure what the standard practise is in this case, as you can transclude directly in Main ns even without an index. Others might explain better.— Mpaa (talk) 08:40, 7 August 2016 (UTC)
Create the index as to use <pages> needs an index page. It is a manual creation rather than with <pagelist>. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:49, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Page:The New Church - What, How, Why .djvu/13[edit]

Hi, anyway to emulate the double lines and dots after the heading on this page. I had a go but they're too far apart, any way to bring them closer? Jpez (talk) 17:02, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

How about this: {{center block|style=border-style:double none; line-height:0;|•{{em}}•{{em}}•{{em}}•{{em}}•}}


Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:07, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
Edit conflict ... I gave a try with line height. See page.— Mpaa (talk) 18:09, 8 August 2016 (UTC)
I used your first suggestion. Thanks!Jpez (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Page:Groton In The Witchcraft Times.djvu/13[edit]

On the first page someone transcribed as per scan, including all the sups and word shortenings. However on this page linked these have been expanded.

So a question, match scan exactly or expand words as in the Text layer provided? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:02, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Amended as the first page scan was by someone else it seems.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:53, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Translations of original texts[edit]

It is mentioned that Translations of original texts can be edited. I want to translate a book of poem in English language written by Rabindra Nath Tagore, the Nobel prize winner, which is already there in Wikisource into Odia language. Is it permissible? --Subas Chandra Rout (talk) 11:52, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Provided the original and translation is copyright-free (some are only free in the US) or under a 'free-license' translations should be permissible. Do you have a local Wikisource for Odia? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
All original works of Tagore are copyright-free under PD-India-URAA. If you want to translate as WS translation, no problem. But most of his well-known poems are already present in English translation; many are present in this site, either in main or index name space. Please confirm from the author page. However, translation of Bengali poems into English via Odia will certainly offer a new flavor. However, as you are going to translate a translation, please ensure that the Odia translation is copyright-free. In such a case, it is desirable that the original should be present in orWS, so that text can be compared. Hrishikes (talk) 13:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I think this is a request to do en -> or . ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:02, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes, sorry, I had misunderstood. Even then, there is no apparent problem. Hrishikes (talk) 00:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

New user, please help[edit]

I'm a new user here, and I don't know what to do. Please help! Queen Laura (talk) 00:51, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

For starters you can have a look at the Help pages Jpez (talk) 05:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Who is this author?[edit]

I'm planning on moving this work over and I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out who this author actually is. It's a minor thing, but it's really bothering me now.

It goes like this:

  • The work is called "The Filipino Martyrs" (subtitle: "a story of the crime of February 4, 1899".)
  • It was published in 1900, for the first time as far as I can tell.
  • The author is a fellow named Richard Brinsley Sheridan.
  • Every archived version on the internet -- be it Google Books, IA, or elsewhere -- wrongly attributes it to this Richard Brinsley Sheridan, who lived 1751 to 1816.
  • As far as I can tell it's an actual eyewitness account of something that happened in 1899 (during the Spanish-American War, I think, but I could be wrong); I don't think it's speculative fiction, but maybe that's what's going on.

Wikipedia lists three different Richard Brinsley Sheridans. One is the same as the author (d. 1816). Another died 1888. Another is an Australian politican who also died in the 1880's. None of them could have been an eyewitness to something that happened in 1899.

So can someone help me in figuring out who exactly this "Richard Brinsley Sheridan" is? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 15:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

So this VIAF page. It shows he also wrote "Club men of Philadelphia", 1894, which is a start. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
which would then be 6 June 1867- 18 December 1919, son of Owen and Clara Sheridan. Shown as a publisher in 1897. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:07, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Ditto Marks[edit]

Depeding on the work and OCR, I've encountered various forms of marking for 'ditto' , some of which use a dual comma symbol or dual quotes. Do we have a style note on what to use when transcribing because, I've tended to use and Ascii double comma ,,? If there is a Unicode ditto mark I should be using instead it would be nice to agree on that with other contributors. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Usually I use &bdquo; comes out as billinghurst sDrewth 16:32, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, I will continue to use the ,, on current efforts, but will note the above for future ones. I won't be changing any existing works, unless there is a consensus. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
I've been using what the printer preferred. Eg. if the printing used regular double quotes, I just use regular double quotes: ". And, since I wasn't aware of the „ html entity, I've just been using two commas as well. So, do we prefer a consistent enWS style (eg. a {{ditto}} template) or match the printed material?
Oh look, we do already have a {{ditto}} template that does this: {{{1}}} --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:13, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, I am however cautious about using that template on a page with a table that has a lot of them for reasons to do with limitations in how many templates can be included, on some complex tables it can hit limit fairly easily.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
I was just surprised that we even had that template. It's useful for errata pages, if nothing else. (I don't entirely understand the point about tables since I make them by hand, but I'll take your word for it.) Mukkakukaku (talk) 14:18, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

re-adding scripts/tools[edit]

Hi, I've (once again) lost the super convenient tools in the lefthand navigation bar. The most significant to me is the one that tidies up line breaks and hyphenation, but there were several I used. Can somebody help me restore them? -Pete (talk) 17:57, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Of course I am just guessing here but I note your javascript startup script both directly loads Pathoschild's templatescript, and indirectly (via User:Peteforsyth/Regexp toolbar.js) loads it again using a different technique. This sort of thing has got to be some kind of a recipe for unpredictable behaviour. May I suggest simplifying this (i.e. making sure only one load path is chosen) as a first step? AuFCL (talk) 01:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Thanks @AuFCL:! I'm kind of a dunce when it comes to JS and MW, I don't really understand how all this stuff fits together. That probably results from me having requested help from different people at different times. I don't really know how to do what you suggest. I tried commenting out the older one; I loaded up a few more pages, I refreshed and purged, but the tools aren't coming back. Did I do the wrong thing? Could you suggest something more specific? Sorry, I realize you don't fully know the answer...but you might know how the pieces fit together a bit better than I do! Regardless, thank you for looking into it -- much appreciated. -Pete (talk) 02:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
O.K. I agree with what you have done so far…except I feel you were a little too enthusiastic with the pruning! May I suggest instead restoring Regexp toolbar.js to its prior contents and instead commenting out the mw.loader.load('//'); line in your User:Peteforsyth/common.js? Although it indeed may be "newer" it does not contain the linkage logic required for many of your "convenient tools". I hope this helps. AuFCL (talk) 03:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
Well...I think I tried what you suggested, not sure if I got it exactly right, but I'm still not seeing "Clean Up &Lines" in my sidebar. (To be simple, that's really the only one I miss on a daily basis -- if there's a way to get that one working, without also restoring the others, I'd be fine with that.) -Pete (talk) 01:30, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
@Peteforsyth: Don't entirely despair. Little by little I think there is progress. If I try to load your current environment I receive this error: TypeError: pathoschild.TemplateScript.Add is not a function (c.f. User:Peteforsyth/Regexp toolbar.js) However, there is code for pathoschild.TemplateScript.add. Could your problem be as simple as incorrect case? Try (carefully) modifying all three occurrences of .TemplateScript.Add in Regexp toolbar.js with .TemplateScript.add and try that. (As this process is a bit like peeling an onion I guess expecting another layer of problems to then pop out is reasonable.) AuFCL (talk) 03:44, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
@AuFCL: That worked! Commence the happy dance, and the warp-speed Wikisourcery! Many thanks. (I wonder how it got broken...but I won't waste my time wondering too hard.) -Pete (talk) 05:38, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
@Peteforsyth: Delighted to hear it! Whilst not proof Pathoschild's TemplateScript documentation changed 10th May last year indicating—well, you've probably guessed already… AuFCL (talk) 06:34, 15 August 2016 (UTC)
Well, surprise surprise :) Thanks again. -Pete (talk) 06:58, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Index:Public General Statutes 1896.djvu[edit]

Was attempting to solve the long standing issue of this potentially overloading the transclusion limits by brute forcing the table formatting, at which point the previous (and known issue with page numbers) not appearing when a table is over multiple pages came back.

I will now go back and revert my attempted solution, but having spent far too many hours on trying to work around a parser that seems to be inconsistent and pedantic about just WHAT constitutes white space, paragraph breaks etc and precisely HOW and WHY they behave differently depending on how something is transcluded, is starting to convince me it isn't worth the hassle, which is a shame, because I put a lot of effort into getting the Short Titles portion of this onto Wikisource. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

It would be helpful and hence the posting here if someone could fully document once and for all exactly what the one correct approach for multi-page tables is (including those generated by templates) so that this argument isn't rehashed very 6 months or so. This (as I have said previously) needs a long term and permanent soloution. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Index:A History of Mathematics (1893).djvu -- request for two replacement pages[edit]

Images for page 256 (djvu 276) and page 281 (djvu 300) have hands blocking scanned text. Clear page scans are available from Internet Archive page 257 and page 281. Outlier59 (talk) 00:29, 15 August 2016 (UTC)


Won't format correctly, despite when I put the same page content manually into Special:ExpandTemplates it did. It seems the parser is being highly pedantic about just exactly how it handles <pages> vs directly. I also checked the underlying templates for a mismatch of HTML tags and could not find any. Perhaps someone here can actually explain WHY the formatting is breaking for what should be otherwise valid markup? I am now slightly frustrated givenn that this issue has been raised repeatedly in the past without a satisfactory solution being reached. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:24, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Page purge[edit]

Was there a recent change that required purges to be confirmed? Until a few days ago the purge script used to do it automatically.

Also I'm seeing a significant lag between a page being validated and it's showing up as such in an index, Sometimes I've had to manual purges to force an update to the relevant Index: page. (I'm assuming there a slight replication delay, but it wasn't there a few days ago. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:23, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

You should just see the storm of acrimony this issue is currently causing on Phabricator. Whilst not canonical I think this gives the best overall summary I have seen so far. There is even a subgroup who want purge eliminated altogether as having been the red-headed step child of MediaWiki actions. You cannot make this stuff up. AuFCL (talk) 22:41, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
Well technically, if there was a proper way of forcing updates to linked pages, I wouldn't need to manually purge as such.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:15, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
To my understanding purge becomes a system job as it replicates onwards.YOu used to be able to see the job queue at Special:Statistics though now you have to use the api. See detail at mw:Manual:Job queuebillinghurst sDrewth 00:39, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
There is more than one "kind" of purge. Certainly the "forcerecursivelinkupdate" variant (so-called "Hard Purge" here) populates the job queue. I am not sure sure about normal purges—I think they simply invalidate the host-end-cache (not related to browser-side-caching) and await page regeneration upon the (usually immediate) next browser request for display. There also is an intermediate kind of purge (forecelinkupdate) which is effectively one-level-limited recursive (see: the API documentation.) AuFCL (talk) 01:31, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Aaron's Rod: scan choice[edit]

I'm looking to upload a scan for Aaron's Rod by D.H. Lawrence. The one linked on the author page is the British first edition. However IA also has the first American edition. As with other Lawrence works, Aaron's Rod was censored. Can I have advice on which would be better to transcribe – less censored – please? This Google book looks useful but it won't show me enough pages: [1]. Thanks, BethNaught (talk) 15:33, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

If they're both public domain, then the ideal scenario would be to get both... but if you have to pick one, I'd say go with the one you would prefer to work on, or with the one that is more notable, whichever is more important to you. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Both Seltzer (American editor) and Secker (English editor) made extensive cuts without consulting Lawrence, who was visiting Ceylon at the time. They did so independently but most of the cuts are the more-or-less the same. The biggest differences are that Secker cut an extra passage from Chapter 10 (critical of the Royal family) and another from Chapter 17 (discussion about friendship and love). So though neither edition can possibly be considered authoritative, I'd be inclined to consider the American edition that little bit more intact. Hesperian 03:18, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the useful information, Hesperian. The American edition is now at Index:Aaron's Rod, Lawrence, New York 1922.djvu. BethNaught (talk) 13:43, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

The {{quote}} template and page breaks[edit]

I just completed a transcription of Address at Oregon Bar Association annual meeting. The original has extensive quotations from legal rulings, for which I used {{quote}}. However, I can't seem to make it work properly across page breaks (for instance, between pages 5 and 6). I tried both explicitly using the "noinclude" HTML tag, and placing parts of the template invocation into the header and footer, but neither works as expected. Any ideas? -Pete (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

{{quote/s}} and {{quote/e}} help? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:05, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Perfecto, thanks! -Pete (talk) 17:13, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Mass reset of status[edit]

I added the following, cleaning up the OCR scans: Index:Zodiac stories by Blanche Mary Channing.pdf

Having read every single line a concern was expressed that I was still missing scan glitches, and that it shouldn't have been marked as proofread until it was 100% clean.

So can someone reset the status of this, until someone that can meet the standard now required reviews it?

I'm considering if I carry on contributing, if I apparently lack the capability to spot scan glitches. 21:47, 22 August 2016 (UTC) previous comment by ShakespeareFan00

I never said it should be 100% clean, and I have never done so. I know that would be hypocritical. Also, please don't do anything rash. It's clear from your talk page that you have ongoing projects which are valued (such as Cassell). BethNaught (talk) 21:52, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
Cassel Vol1 is another one of concern, I was finding typographical errors, all over the place, which given that I read this line by line in places when validating, gives me some concerns about how many other pages got "speed-read" for obvious errors and not more subtle ones..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:30, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
Listening to advice about our proofreading and our rate of proofreading may cause us to reflect and internally wince. We should be aware of our foibles and reflect on the required accuracy and thoroughness, rather than churn. I know that I will read the text, then "read" for the formatting (italics, emdashes, fractions, pound signs, spaces around quotes, para breaks, ...), then save it and review for the things that I missed — the typeface difference will often show extra bits (ie. letter l versus number 1). Of course with ocr/djvu processing if an error happens once, it will often happen multiple times in the same work, so for long works a post-it note of a mini-checklist per work is valuable. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:31, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
PS. it is possible to have a bot run through and reset the page status, though only really possible back to non-proofread as the proofreader needs to match the editor in the higher page status. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:33, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
I was a few years ago, doing what I termed OCR cleanup when creating a new page, and was more than happy with this, but someone left me talk page comments suggesting that I should be marking them as proofread. I was slightly unhappy about doing that for precisely the reasons raised most recently (unspotted scan glitches.).
I've commented elsewhere that I see transcription as a 3 stage process.
  1. 1 Clean up pages -> Text entered (marked as non-proofread or problem accordingly) -> On completion text is at 99% correct
  2. 2 Proofreading -> Text is checked -> On completion text is 100% non-printer errors, all images formatting etc. -> Page that can be validated
  3. 3 Validation -> Page that can be transcluded and needs no further obvious corrections.
I'd prefer to concentrate on Stage 1, rather than on a combined Stage 1&2 as most people consider it.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:57, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Personally, when I validate, I expect to find and fix an error around about every one to three pages. When I find fewer than that, I'm very impressed. When I find multiple errors per page, I am unimpressed with the proofreading, and may be inclined to give the proofreader some feedback on their performance. It's hard to give that feedback well i.e. constructively and without giving needless offence. I've had a look at the discussion, and in my opinion BethNaught gave it well enough. S/he has raised a reasonable concern in a manner that was assertive, but not aggressive or rude. Hesperian 02:50, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Template:Nd/GPO and relations[edit]

Nominally taking a break from editing here, but spotted a mistake in how this handles alternate/additional styles. Would appreciate someone reviewing this with a view to fixing a logical error on my part. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:35, 23 August 2016 (UTC)


(Nominally on break) but querying something...

Why do {{left sidenote}} and {{Right sidenote}} exist alongside {{Outside L}}{{outside R}} which use a different approach?

It would be nice to have one approach to recommend on new efforts. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2016 (UTC)