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The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel webclient.

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Copyright status of British court decisions[edit]

Does anyone know the answer? I would like to add [1] while looking like {{PD-EdictGov}}. Thanks.--Jusjih (talk) 03:43, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

I would call court judgements as edicts of government — three arms of government: the executive, the legislative body, and the courts. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:08, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
If you want to be really sure, write a polite formal letter to the judicial official or the court that issued the ruling, enquiring as to the copyright status, giving a concise explanation of why you want to republish on Wikisource. They would also be in the best position to advise if there are portions that would require redaction for legal reasons or reporting restrictions. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:19, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
{{PD-EdictGov}} does include "judicial opinions"; I think that is pretty explicit, isn't it? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:39, 18 March 2017 (UTC)
It's PD-EdictGov in the US; in the UK, it will be covered by Crown Copyright for 50 years, though it might be released under one of the Open Government Licenses.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:47, 20 March 2017 (UTC)
The source website claims the Crown Copyright mentioning the Open Government License [2]. Do we have any tag for it? If is compatible with CC-BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL?--Jusjih (talk) 03:20, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
It links to the {{OGL2}} license, which says "These terms are compatible with the Creative Commons Attribution License 4.0 and the Open Data Commons Attribution License, both of which license copyright and database rights. This means that when the Information is adapted and licensed under either of those licences, you automatically satisfy the conditions of the OGL when you comply with the other licence. The OGLv2.0 is Open Definition compliant."--Prosfilaes (talk) 08:42, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Many thanks to all answers. I have added Opinion of the Court delivered by Lady Paton in the Appeals under Sections 103 and 108 of the Extradition Act 2003 by Zain Taj Dean against (first) the Lord Advocate; and (second) the Scottish Ministers and relevant Scottish court papers linked to and from relevant Taiwanese court papers. This is my first time adding British court papers, so I would use the formal full names.--Jusjih (talk) 03:21, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Typo words.[edit]

In re-reading something I found some patterns of missed OCR errors/typos: User:ShakespeareFan00/Typo words

Would someone advise on how to add these to the typoscan script, so that they are appropriately highlighted. (It's a shame that it's not currently possible to have highlighting in the actual edit window, via a per user highlight or check list.). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:13, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: You can use this script or your amendment of the same, for auto-correction. Hrishikes (talk) 04:20, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Requesting to validate the remaining proofred page in a book[edit]

A very minor help request: Can anyone please validate this page so that the book is completed? page 9. Thanks. — Ineuw talk 06:05, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

I hope no-one agrees to do so, since the text on the page is untranscribed. Hesperian 06:08, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Transcription done. Hrishikes (talk) 07:04, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Page-spanning double reference[edit]

I am putting the endnotes of Index:The Mythology of All Races Vol 6 (Indian and Iranian).djvu on the relevant page namespaces for ease of the reader. One endnote has citation on two pages. The second page (see here) naturally is showing error message, the reference being on the previous page. But on transclusion here, the citations are coming up fine. Is there any alternate method to resolve the error message issue on the page namespace? With thanks in advance, Hrishikes (talk) 11:56, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Three imperfect choices. 1) Separate the references so the same appears twice. 2) If you don't like the error, wrap the ref in <includeonly>; or 3) ignore the error message in Page ns. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:35, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. I have opted for includeonly. Hrishikes (talk) 14:54, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
GMTA. That is how I handle them. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:16, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Is Brexit letter in PD?[edit]

I wonder if we can create the "Brexit letter", written by British PM the other day, i.e. is it in public domain? Because the PD-UKGov template seems to only cover works from before 1967? Or am I seeing something wrong? Thanks. --Matija (talk) 12:45, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

@Matija: It is published under a free licence (conditional, so not public domain so to speak) at and the site says those pages are {{OGL}} [3]. So use that licence and it should be fine at Commons and here. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:21, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Portion of book not showing up in page namespace[edit]

I am facing a peculiar problem with Index:The Bird of Time.djvu. Djvu page 19 onwards, the scanned pages are not showing up in page namespace. These pages were previously visible. At Commons, File:The Bird of Time.djvu is present, but clicking on the original file link shows error message that the file is absent. Clicking on the image link at page namespace here also shows absence of the file, for any page. Any solution? Hrishikes (talk) 02:26, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

P.S. I have also tried re-uploading the file, after downloading from IA. This also cannot be done, error message saying that the file in the internal storage backends is in an inconsistent state. Hrishikes (talk) 02:42, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
This looks like some sort of file amage or upload error. The pages you mention are not showing up at Commons either when I try to view those pages. Were they previously visible at Commons or just at IA? --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:44, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: These pages were visible till yesterday. Pages created upto that time (even pages far ahead in the index) are still coming up with the scan on the right side. The file corruption problem has come up today only. Hrishikes (talk) 02:53, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
Have you asked at Commons? This looks like a problem at their end rather than here. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:00, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
Asked here. Hrishikes (talk) 05:03, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
@Hrishikes: It could be a thumbnailing issue, or of course, something else. When it is the day or the day after the MW update release, it is always worth checking the mediawiki release documentation to see what happened in the latest release that may have an impact. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:54, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
In this case mw:MediaWiki_1.29/wmf.18 doesn't show anything particularly relevant for keywords "image", "thumbnail" or "djvu". — billinghurst sDrewth 05:58, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: The problem is that, the original file at has disappeared or become inaccessible. It was accessible till my proofreading of p18 today morning. Hrishikes (talk) 06:09, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
Can you just upload afresh from the file: page? See if that resolves the issue rather than worry about the mechanics. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:26, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: Overwriting the file by re-uploading is not allowed, error message saying that the file is in an inconsistent state in the internal storage backends. But I can try uploading under a different name, then moving the index and the pages to the new location. Should I go for this? Hrishikes (talk) 06:40, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
Whole thing is corrupt and usually takes forever to get things fixed through the backend. I have uploaded to a new name and moved the pages here. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:06, 31 March 2017 (UTC)
Many thanks. More such cases are occurring, vide phab:T161836. Hrishikes (talk) 10:26, 31 March 2017 (UTC)


So Samuel Laing (1812–1897) and his father Samuel Laing (1780–1868) were both authors. Junior had an author page Samuel Laing; I have created author pages for both: Samuel Laing (1812–1897) and Samuel Laing (1780–1868) and moved the contents of Samuel Laing to Junior’s page. How do I do a disambiguation? Do I merely write over the redirect on Samuel Laing with {{disambig}} and the two authors listed? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 02:17, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Yes. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:59, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Umm, no. The inbound author page links need to be updated. To note that we use hyphens rather than ndash. Anyway, all Yes check.svg Done . — billinghurst sDrewth 03:39, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Asking for comments and some help on three possible book index layouts[edit]

  1. Using the Multicol template. This layout is closest to the original.
    1. I am unable to add hanging indents because the {{Hanging indent}} template breaks it up to paragraphs, and the style="padding-left:1.0em; text-indent:-1.0em;" as a parameter option in the {{Multicol}} didn't work for me.
    2. Cannot be anchored and linked to the subjects.
    3. Will not appear as a continuous block in the main namespace, even if it is wrapped with a <div> from beginning to end.
  2. A previous version of the above page in a table.
    1. Can be anchored and linked to the subjects.
    2. Not indented. Contains the description on each line.
    3. Appears continuous in the main namespace.
  3. The following page, using a table.
    1. Can be anchored and linked to the subjects.
    2. Contains one description per subject
    3. Appears continuous in the main namespace.
    4. Uses ·················· instead of double quotes.

Your comments are welcome. — Ineuw talk 02:56, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

D. None of the above. I've dealt with a similar index at Page:Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1.djvu/509 ff. Transcluded to Ante-Nicene Christian Library/Index of Subjects (Volume 1). Mpaa did the bot-work to put in the links once the pages had been validated. The thing is messy enough as it is without doing it as a table. Definitely don't do it in columns—that's just a printer's artefact to ensure it doesn't go over too many pages. Makes it un-usable in the mainspace and the pretties are less important than the function. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:06, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
+1 to BWC's comment. Phe also has such an index linking script though expects the page to be validated prior to running it through. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:42, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Plus use anchors, and something like {{compactTOCalpha}} in the notes section. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:44, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the valuable input. Now on to the planning stage. — Ineuw talk 03:48, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

A quick related question. For Page:The Book of Scottish Song.djvu/615, would the most appropriate template be Template:Dotted TOC page listing? I'm struggling to find guidance on index pages, or a more suitable template. Sam Walton (talk) 12:33, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

I personally would use {{TOC row 2dot-1}}, which allows all entries to be in a single table element, over {{Dotted TOC page listing}} which creates a separate table element for each line... but both will have the desired visual effect, so you can use {{Dotted TOC page listing}} if you prefer. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:55, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
I would recommend against using any templates for the index to that work. That will be a massive index and too many template calls from a single transcluded page will break the system. It's better to use a table than a template in a listing of this size. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:00, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

Index:A History and Defence of Magna Charta .djvu[edit]

Checking this file, it is missing the last few pages. This copy has the missing pages and looks cleaner. Can I just replace/update the current file or is it easier for (someone else to) replace the missing pages? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 10:45, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

I would just upload the better scan over the bad scan. No transclusion has been done yet, so the only cleanup afterwards will be to adjust the page list; and that will be easier than repairing the scan file itself (plus the scan will be better). —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:13, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Commons also has two pdf scans: see here. Hrishikes (talk) 12:34, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
Is it desirable to use the first edition? The other uploaded scans are 2nd ed. Zoeannl (talk) 18:34, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
@Zoeannl: I usually try to use the last available PD edition, so that latest annotations are available to the reader. But in this case, the first edition probably has historical value, also typographical peculiarities. Being such a museum case, it should be preferred, I think; although there is no bar against the 2nd ed used as a separate version. Hrishikes (talk) 02:05, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Decorative images[edit]

I'm looking at Illustrations of China and Its People vol. I., and noticed this page has a header image tagged as needing to be included. I cropped, rotated, and B&W'd the header (you can now find it at File:Illustrations of China and Its People Header.png), but wanted to clarify how and when such images are included before doing so. Should this definitely be included? What about the small floral triangle on page 5, or the image on page 10? What about the design around the dropped letter on page 7? I guess we can't include all drawn elements of a book, but is there guidance on where the line for inclusion lies? I noticed Wikisource:Image guidelines, which says "Decorative elements found in the original, designs around initial letters, dingbats, and other ornaments" can be included, but I wondered if anyone had some more practical advice. Sorry for all the examples and long post. Thanks, Sam Walton (talk) 01:04, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

There is no universal consensus, but we tend to include those sorts of floral decorations. Some editors, like myself, always want them included in our copy, but I have seen other editors consider them superfluous from time to time. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:57, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: Thanks! The image seems to have come out quite small on the page. Does that seem ok? Sam Walton (talk) 10:33, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
@Samwalton9: It will work for that instance, although it should be a bit larger. Grabbing images from the original file (of suitable size) and them editing them is an art unto itself. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:16, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
The image itself is 1,176 × 205, I'm just not sure to what degree we should fudge the render size, Image Guidelines says not to specify if possible. Sam Walton (talk) 15:35, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
I either leave the image as a [frameless] thumbnail (users can click on the image/enlarge as they wish), or I eyeball it based on the proportion in the original... But I usually shy away from making the image larger than 375 or 400px (due to mobile rendering, etc.). Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:47, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
@Samwalton9: I ignore the beasts as being useless and often just hard and rubbish to reproduce. They are not the works of the authors, and are typographic niceties, especially in non-fiction works. I may have a different opinion for an artistic work where they are certainly part of the reproduction. Rider: Where they are initials for drop capitals, they are clearly within the work, whether it is artistic or not. unsigned comment by Billinghurst (talk) 02:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC).

Password query[edit]

I have a universal Wikimedia account. Does it not work for this project? I've tried to log in and keep getting the message that my password is incorrect. Since I can get into every other Wikimedia project with that password, I know it is correct. Help! 04:43, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

If you are logged into your account from elsewhere, you shouldn't even need to be logging in, the system should just connect your account. This site is no differently configured than elsewhere and should e working like those wikis. Note: always check your cookies, and other browser settings. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:29, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Looking for a floating {{FIS}} example which contains a table definition[edit]

If anyone used the {{FIS}} template with a table definition inserted, please provide a link to the page. I need to offset a table with the text flowing around it unbroken. I made one in PSM once, but lost my link to the page and the documentation for the template is very cryptic. Thanks in advance. — Ineuw talk 18:36, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Try Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 27.djvu/619? 19:42, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
@ Thank you stranger, whoever you are. — Ineuw talk 04:39, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Ineuw: It would be the person sometimes known as AuFCL. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:51, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, I suspected that after asking my uncle "IAL" aka., "IP address Lookup". — Ineuw talk 18:08, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

TOCStyle blues[edit]

What have I done wrong here? Zoeannl (talk) 07:45, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

@Zoeannl: Done Hrishikes (talk) 09:53, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Multiple copyright tags[edit]

I just uploaded and transcluded a short work, The Right to Affirm, by Charles Bradlaugh. I marked it as {{PD/1923|1891}} because this does apply to Bradlaugh. However because the work quotes the whole of the Oaths Act 1888, and this is nearly half the work, I think the relevant template for expired crown copyright, {{PD-UKGov}}, should be displayed. (I could have just slapped {{PD-1923}} on there, but this is also unsatisfactory because the work really is PD worldwide, according to our copyright tags at least.) Moreover I think it needs to be explained this tag applies only to the Oaths Act.

What I tried to do was something like this:

{{collapse top|Copyright information}}

'''For the work by Bradlaugh:'''


'''For the Oaths Act, 1888:'''


{{collapse bottom}}

but it didn't work because the tags float to the bottom.

Can anybody help? Or should I just give up on this? Thanks, BethNaught (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

@BethNaught: Copyright tags display at the base of the page, not inline. BTW you could consider using {{license container begin}}{{license container end}} and I think that it takes supplementary text. unsigned comment by Billinghurst (talk) .
@Billinghurst: I deduced that much ;) Thank you, your solution worked. I had no idea that template existed. BethNaught (talk) 06:22, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
Their usage is more usual in Author namespace as our guidance for works is generally is apply one copyright tag. I have added a usage section to the bottom of Help:Copyright tags and mentioned the two container templates. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:40, 17 April 2017 (UTC)
The most frequent use of double copyright notices I experience is with translated works. For that we have {{translation license}}. Should the Help:Copyright tags page have a complete example, or was the example on the Help page deliberately set as is it currently is? --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:36, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Differences between templates[edit]

Would someone kindly explain the difference between {{small scan link}} and {{scan}}? One generates words and the other, a graphic; but is the purpose to be the same, in indicating those projects which are to be proofread. This may be old for some of you, but for someone new to the party, I don't want to break/interfere with any background uses for these. Humbug26 (talk) 18:22, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

"small scan link" was introduced to show that a while we may not have the work finished, that people could contribute to its transcription, we would generally remove that link once a work is transcribed as the scan can be accessed through source tab and page links. "scan" was an imported template from another WS that utilised it and the contributor clearly liked it. Scan has different display attributes. There is no official position as we have not had that discussion, and while we each will have personal preferences … <shrug> — billinghurst sDrewth 00:19, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

An encounter with an unknown (by me) chemical notation[edit]

At the bottom of this page there are tiny math symbols (+ and -) on top of the formulas. Perhaps someone knows how to format insert them? — Ineuw talk 07:57, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Unicode doesn't support operators above like that, but instead ions are usually typeset like this: H+ + Cl-. LaTeX would normally need an additional package such as chemformula, which our math module doesn't support; instead I'd use (additionally using \mathrm to remove the italicization that generally indicates that they are variables, which they aren't).—Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:30, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
@Beleg Tâl: Much gratitude for the new info. Never too old to learn something new. — Ineuw talk 20:47, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
@Ineuw: N.B. <ce> tag: "math" for chemical formulæ; e.g. <ce>\overset{^+}{H} + \overset{^-}{Cl}</ce> renders like . 10:04, 29 April 2017 (UTC)
Whoa, I had no idea that <ce> was a thing. I would still use instead of , however. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:47, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Problems with File:Special 301 Report 2014.pdf[edit]

I see strange errors with File:Special 301 Report 2014.pdf:

  • when seeing proofread pages of the index, the images of the pages are not displayed, only proofread text is shown;
  • when viewing the file (as here on En-WS, or on the Commons) the pages are displayed as empty;
  • additionally to viewing the file, if trying to see alternative resolutions (any from Other resolutions: 185 × 240 pixels | 371 × 480 pixels | 464 × 600 pixels | 593 × 768 pixels | 1,275 × 1,650 pixels.), strange errors are displayed, for example:
Error generating thumbnail

Error creating thumbnail: Reading profile /etc/firejail/mediawiki-converters.profile Reading profile /etc/firejail/mediawiki-converters.profile �]0;firejail /usr/bin/convert -depth 8 -quality 95 -resize 185 - /tmp/transform_efeb80e7e64d.jpg �convert: no decode delegate for this image format `' @ error/constitute.c/ReadImage/501. convert: no images defined `/tmp/transform_efeb80e7e64d.jpg' @ error/convert.c/ConvertImageCommand/3210. Parent pid 48742, child pid 48744 Parent is shutting down, bye... 

Can anyone tell—what is that, and what could be done with that? --Nigmont (talk) 22:01, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

I'm having the same issue with Index:Über einen die Erzeugung und Verwandlung des Lichtes betreffenden heuristischen Gesichtspunkt.pdf; I thought it was a problem with the file, but now it appears to be a problem with all PDF files. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:47, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
Reported to Phabricator. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 00:19, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@Beleg Tâl: Thank you very much for handling the problem and registering the issue! Now waiting the solution. Regards, Nigmont (talk) 17:44, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@Nigmont: reported as resolved, there is the requirement to flush the thumbnail cache. Please use the purge link on the Index: pages. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:50, 29 April 2017 (UTC)