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Scriptorium Scriptorium (Help) Archives, Last archive
The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel (a web client is available).

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Vintage maths formatting help[edit]

I'm working through a James Clerk Maxwell paper, and there are several times he uses vertical and horizontal bars above and to the right in formulae that I cant seem to reproduce using markup.

An example is:

I've had a go using \\right\\vert and \\bar but it doesn't match the original. Natty Stott, 21:59, 6 November 2018‎ (UTC)

I think you can copy the wikitext out of w:en:Vinculum (symbol)#Usage. If that doesn't work, then ping me; I know a MediaWiki dev who will be able to help. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 00:29, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks, that has sorted out the horizontal bar, using \\ overline{} It has given me some inspiration to search for the correct vertical bar
@Natty Stott: Late advice: try w:WP:MATH, specifically Parenthesizing big expressions, brackets, bars — always useful! 01:22, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Dash at the end of a page[edit]

Wikisource:Style guide says that dashes should not be flanked with spaces. However, when there is a dash at the end of a page, a space is automatically added to the right of the dash after transclusion. Visually it could probably be solved using {{hws}}, but it does not seem semantically correct to me, as this template is intended for single words split into two pages. May I ask for some suggestions how to solve it? Thanks. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:04, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

I use {{lps}} & {{lpe}} for this. See User:Beeswaxcandle/End of page notes for details. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:39, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Is there a reason for your preference? Those templates were designed to create wikilinks when the phrase in the link spanned two pages. {{hws}} and {{hwe}} fulfill the same task, except that they don't create a wikilink. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:38, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
A quick explore of hws history suggests that it didn't work the way it does now and so I had found something that did work. I tend not to notice when templates get amended later and continue to use techniques that have proven themselves to work. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:54, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
I use {{hws}} and {{hwe}}. The name of the templates may say "word" but the template can be used for "terms" or "phrases" just as well.
Of course the real problem is that the software inserts the space after an em-dash and shouldn't do so. I do not know whether a Phabricator ticket has been started for this issue as of yet. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:33, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Beeswaxcandle, @EncycloPetey:

Open As you may see the solution is but half-implemented, recognises at best one single character as word-joiner (here: hyphen) and assumes every other page-ending character warrants addition of a space… Still generating smallish amounts of controversy and may even one day be backed out again? 20:19, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

I am not sure if this can be fixed generally, because in some languages (e. g. in Czech) the dashes can be flanked by spaces. So it probably needs to be solved locally here.
If the only possible way is using the above mentioned templates, it should probably be explained in both their documentation and Wikisource:Style guide so that the newcomers do not have to discover America again and again. It is very unexpected to use template called {{hyphenated word start}} for solving a problem of parts of sentences divided with a dash. Nobody new would probably also look for the solution in a template called {{linkable phrase start}}.
I am not sure, if it is possible, but it would be great if there were a simple template like {{nospace}} (or {{nos}}), which could be added at the end of the page and which would ensure that no space is added after transclusion. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:11, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Uploading Files from[edit]

Could someone elaborate on how files of the PDF sort are uploaded? I would like to upload some from --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:11, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Having been notified on my talk page, I will try to answer, although I would like to hear an opinion of a more experienced user too. You probably mean the problem of highly compressed pdf files (not only) from, which has been waiting for a solution at Phabricator for quite a long time without much progress.
Sometimes I try to decompress the file before uploading. I use a free version of PDFCreator, but the results are not very good: originally very small files get very large. If they exceed 100MB, they cannot be uploaded to Commons, and so I convert them to djvu instead, using some online converter. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 08:21, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
This is the first I've heard of the compression issue you mention, but on a separate note, a worthwhile tool is ia-upload. It makes importing files from the INternet Archive very easy. It will generally grab (or generate) a DJVU file instead of a PDF,. which is, as I understand it, preferable (DJVU being a more open format). -Pete (talk) 00:51, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out the tool.
As for the djvu x pdf preferences: the proofread extension reads well both formats, but if somebody wants to read the scans directly from Commons, web browsers usually are not able to read djvu. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:56, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
On the other hand, PDF has less functionality than DJVU in the proofread extension - page resizing, OCR, match and split, and other features may depend on DJVU in order to work as expected. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:48, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
Also, I believe DJVU is a less tightly controlled format, more friendly to the free software ecosystem. Hopefully it's only a matter of time until it's more easily read by common, readily available apps. -Pete (talk) 21:34, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Mobile display crippled? (Blackletter)[edit]

It would seem that {{blackletter}}, and {{blackletter light}} and perhaps other {{ULS}} features are selectively disabled on mobile views.

I noticed this reading some of the Help pages. It's disconcerting when the illustration of Blackletter font isn't.

To see the fuss, display the UnifrakturMaguntia section Template:ULS/doc as desktop and alongside that display as mobile.

When searching archives I noted that there are mentions of 'webfonts' with ULS, and I'm assuming that Fraktur friends require downloading implementing fonts to the webbrowser.

Is it possible that the mobile view extension disallows webfonts? Is this another instance where Wikipedia projects have cut too deeply into functionality for mobile 'efficiency'? (No Soup for you!) Shenme (talk) 22:51, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, looks like the mobile skin isn't pulling in the ULS extension assets. The interesting thing is that when you switch to the Minerva Neue skin in desktop (which is the base skin for mobile), the issue doesn't occur, so it has to do specifically with this 'm' mobile subdomain, I think. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 16:01, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
So on further poking about in the ULS extension documentation, it says : "ULS is only supported in the following skins: Vector, Monobook, Modern" (source: So since mobile uses the Minerva skin, ULS seems not to be supported in mobile. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 16:06, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

Formatting help[edit]

Would somebody smarter than me please take a look at Page:Translationsrepr01univiala.pdf/9? There should be page numbers aligned to the right, and the Roman numerals on the left introducing the list should also be aligned so that they line up on their right side, not left. This is probably a simple fix, but I'll never figure out how to do that without an example. Compassionate727 (T·C) 20:58, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

@Compassionate727: Page:Original stories from real life 1796.pdf/17 is pretty similar. Do you want to try to reverse engineer it for yourself? —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:57, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
Template:Dotted TOC page listing looks versatile enough, I'll probably be able to work out the appearance I want. I'll come back otherwise. Compassionate727 (T·C) 23:07, 1 December 2018 (UTC)

Library of Congress scans?[edit]

Does anybody know about the copyright status of library of congress archive scans, especially if they can be added to the WS project? I guess more specifically, the conditions in which they can be uploaded?

For example, consider this page, an essay that's within scope and definitely out of copyright. It's "made available here with permission of" a particular person... does this mean that the images themselves may be copyrighted and therefore not possible to be uploaded? I know that this isn't considered a problem when uploading from, but maybe different sources have different guidelines? Most of the help pages don't seem to cover this.

Thanks! Mathmitch7 (talk) 19:10, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

I'm not seeing anything there about "made available here with permission of", so I don't know what you're referring to. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:01, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Open the "Rights & Access" section. The key part is the quote above the "made available with permission..." part which says:
The Library of Congress provides access to The Frederick Douglass Papers at the Library of Congress for educational and research purposes and makes no warranty with regard to their use for other purposes. Responsibility for making an independent legal assessment of an item and securing any necessary permissions ultimately rests with persons desiring to use the item. The written permission of the copyright owners and/or holders of other rights (such as publicity and/or privacy rights) is required for distribution, reproduction, or other use of protected items beyond that allowed by fair use or other statutory exemptions. There may be content that is protected under the copyright or neighboring-rights laws of other nations.
Which pretty much boils down to "it's your job to figure out the copyright status and permissions issues." --Mukkakukaku (talk) 22:51, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
There is more information on how to handle such situations at commons:Commons:When to use the PD-scan tag. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:14, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
Regarding the Frederick Douglass Papers at the Library of Congress, the bit about "permission" from a specific person only applies to one document in the entire collection. After the generic copyright disclaimer that Mukkakukaku already posted above, you see this line: "Letter, Henry O. Tanner to Frederick Douglass, May 7, 1894, made available here with permission from Dr. Rae Alexander-Minter." The Frederick Douglass Papers contain approximately 7400 items. Among those thousands of items, one item is a letter that painter Henry O. Tanner wrote to Frederick Douglass in 1894. Most likely, the letter was actually in the possession of Dr. Rae Alexander-Minter at some point in time. She probably had the letter in her personal collection and then donated the letter to the Library of Congress and gave her permission for the item to be made available to the public.
This text about permission for Henry O. Tanner's letter is simply part of the Rights and Access metadata for The Frederick Douglass Papers, and this same "rights and access" text is automatically placed on every page associated with the collection, making it somewhat confusing for the viewer. But rest assured, the item you are viewing--the transcript of the essay from the North Star--has nothing to do with Henry O. Tanner or with Dr. Rae Alexander-Minter. - JBhistorian (talk) 21:27, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
I wasn't aware of the commons:Commons:When to use the PD-scan tag essay, but it's very useful. Thanks! Mathmitch7 (talk) 15:15, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Header in[edit]

Hi, In nl-ws on the pages of s:nl:Index:Heemskerck op Nova Zembla.djvu there is a problem with the headers. Can someone have a look at it. For example page 73. On page 74 we put an extra pipe in the header, but then the header text is not on one line. The extra pipe on page 75 does work well. What is the best way to work with headers like these (text not in the middle)? WeeJeeVee (talk) 17:53, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

You don't have to use a running header template at all. Just leave the left-aligned text alone, and {{float right}} the right-aligned text. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:59, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Agatha Christie[edit]

Why can't I read the Agatha Christie novels ? They are copyrighted in the U.S., I don't live there . Grunthog (talk) 08:25, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

The problem is that you can read it but we cannot publish it, as this is an U.S. based site :-( It is true that Wikimedia Foundation projects have grown really international, which is why I also do not understand, why Wikimedia Foundation insists that all the servers have to be physically located in the United States. I am not a lawyer, my lay opinion is that it would be great, if the works of e. g. European authors copyrighted in the US but free in Europe could be placed on servers in Europe, etc. This would be useful not only to Wikisource, but also to old photographs and other files at Commons. But until this happens (if it ever happens) we have to follow US copyright laws. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:55, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
@Grunthog: You can read all of the Agatha Christie novels here unless your country or internet provider has chosen to block certain links. If you are asking about the "copyrighted in the US until..." tags; be aware that those tags mean that Wikisource does not have them. It is not a matter of limiting access to readers, but a restriction of what we can legally host on our site (as explained above by Jan Kameníček. In other words, Agatha Christie's novels with that tag aren't hosted here at all, because we cannot legally do so. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:12, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
Agatha Christie died in 1976; with the exception of the US and a handful of countries that still aren't part of the Berne Convention, all of her works are in copyright, and only a couple books are currently out of copyright in the US.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:08, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: So, how shall I read it in Wikisource ? Grunthog (talk) 10:41, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

You can't. It's not in Wikisource. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 10:42, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Soft hyphens ­ - remove or keep while proofreading?[edit]

I am new to proofreading on Wikisource, and I have a question about hyphens. The guide to typography says that reconnecting hyphenated words broken over separate lines is part of the proofreading process. I was proofreading some scanned pages, and I noticed that some end-of-line hyphens have already been replaced with ­ (i.e. soft hyphens) in many cases, making these hyphens disappear for the human reader. But I am not sure if these ­ hyphens interfere with searches or text mining by non-human readers. So, question: should I leave these ­ hyphens in the text or remove them altogether before I mark the page as “Proofread”? --JBhistorian (talk) 02:18, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

It is not standard practice to insert soft hyphens. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:18, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Stronger than that: it is standard practice to remove soft hyphens altogether when proofreading. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 04:09, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
Thank you for the guidance. --JBhistorian (talk) 04:12, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Lacking understanding on linking to wikidata & authority control[edit]

Created this page: Author:Cyrus Thomas who has a Wikidata page, (as well as a Wikipedia page) but I am lost on how to add his name to the Wikidata, "Wikisource" tag, and how it is all related to Authority control". — Ineuw talk 17:31, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Done. You simply go to the Wikidata item (where you can get e. g. from the Wikipedia article) and add the author into the section Wikisource, see d:Q4460170. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:05, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Jan.Kamenicek: Thanks. Prior to posting this, I tried everything as you instructed and did, but I could not "add the author into the section Wikisource" and save it. Selected "en", added the name, but the save option was disabled. So I looked at other author pages and the differences were incomprehensible:
In the Cyrus Thomas page, I specified the birth and death dates myself, but in another author page linked to Wikidata, these two fields were not in their template and yet they showed up on their page. So, I assumed that it was "pulled in" from Wikidata. I added the "links = Wikipedia" in the template but it didn't show up in the "sister projects" box. A perfect example of why I was confused is this page: Author:William Makepeace Thackeray.— Ineuw talk 19:34, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Ineuw: You wrote that you "selected 'en', added the name, but the save option was disabled": It is not enough to write just the name, you have to add also the prefix "Author:", so I guess this might have been the problem. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
I added it as "Author:Cyrus Thomas" as I realized that the listing is per namespace. Perhaps I needed to add the braces [[]]?. Also, I was logged in to wikidata (Global login). No matter, I will try it again on the next author. Thanks for the help.— Ineuw talk 19:56, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Ineuw: Brackets are not added there. There must have been some typo, extra space, or some other mistake, otherwise I cannot imagine why it did not work. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:14, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
No problem. Will try it with the next author. At least I am glad that I was on the right track.— Ineuw talk 20:20, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@Ineuw: It sounds as though you did everything correctly, so I'm also at a loss to understand what went wrong. The only things I can think of are: (a) Sometimes there is a lag between the creation of a page here and Wikidata recognizing that the page exists. If you try to add a link to a page that doesn't exist, the software will prevent you from adding the link. So if Wikidata isn't yet aware that the target page has been created, it may not allow you to save the link. (b) Once you type in the name of the page to be linked, a drop-down menu should appear, and you have to click on the drop-down title to verify that it's the link you want to make. If you don't select the target page that way, it may not accept your entry. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:48, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: Thanks. You are right that the main namespace article was not yet created. — Ineuw talk 20:59, 5 December 2018 (UTC)


Any suggestions on how to make the wikitext match the original more closely on this page? -Pete (talk) 00:54, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

[1] is a quick possibility. There may be more complex methods that would produce something closer, but the ones I know about would make alignment tricky. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:21, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
Thanks to all of you who showed different approaches there -- I'm keeping a link to that page as an example for future reference. Much appreciated. -Pete (talk) 18:07, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

Restoring a lost CharInsert feature[edit]

The previous version of CharInsert retained a user's "User" custom setting in the Wikisource cookie. Would it be possible to restore this feature. — Ineuw talk 13:14, 10 December 2018 (UTC)