User talk:Beleg Tâl

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Beleg Tâl Beleg Tâl | Talk Archives

Category:Kalevala (Crawford)[edit]

You deleted the category itself, but not any of the links to the category. So closing the discussion was a bit premature. --EncycloPetey (talk) 12:47, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I would take care of it myself, but it's much easier for someone who uses bots to do it. I'd have had to go through them all manually. :P --EncycloPetey (talk) 12:58, 20 June 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, category modifications like that are a huge pain; AWB makes things so much easier :) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:32, 20 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks again for your help.[edit]

All of this is very complicated. I am also trying to learn the syntax for the Spanish (and French) wikisource. GinnevraDubois (talk) 01:06, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Wikilvres is now Bibliowiki[edit]

Wikilivres has now changed its name to Bibliowiki and moved to

Unfortunately, this change means that links to the site, such as the one to The Tale of Little Pig Robinson on the Author:Beatrix Potter page, now just link to the Bibliowiki main page instead of the text where the link was intended to go.

As a Bibliowiki admin, I am asking you, a Wikisource admin, to please do what you can to solve this problem. Thank you. Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 08:03, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

@Simon Peter Hughes: I will initiate the discussions in the appropriate places. Thank you. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:17, 4 July 2017 (UTC)
Thank you very much! Simon Peter Hughes (talk) 04:21, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

Woodie Guthrie and editing sheet music[edit]

I was reviewing the song Jackhammer Blues to validate and I noticed something. on the last line of the sheet music, the first note of the second measure, above the word Lord, is written as an F in the original sheet music, instead of a D as it currently exists on the page. I'm nervous about touching the sheet music template since it's something I'm unfarmiliar with, and I dont know if it's a typo included in the original source. --Legofan94 (talk) 18:27, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

@Legofan94: fixed, and thanks! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:45, 10 August 2017 (UTC)


How would you define "anthology"? Your edit to Odes of Pindar leaves me wondering, because I certainly wouldn't describe either book as an "anthology". --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:28, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: To my understanding an "anthology" is a volume consisting of several different works. If you think a better word is more appropriate that's fine. Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:32, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
There isn't an English word that summarizes the contents of these books. Pindar wrote many odes in his lifetime, and published them in several volumes. Of these, only his "Victory Odes" (Epinikia) survive intact, and these are the Odes translated in the two volumes listed. Other volumes I've seen have translated only the Olympian Odes or the Isthmian Odes, which are subsets of the Epinikia. The two volumes here titled The Odes of Pindar both happen to contain the complete surviving works of Pindar, collected in the same set (though slightly different order and numbering) as they were by whatever Byzantine or Alexandrian editor must have set them down. The key point of the page though is that any book entitled The Odes of Pindar could be listed there, even if it were merely a book about the Epinikia (or even the missing Odes) without being a translation. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:38, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: yes exactly—that is the point of the edit I made. I understand that the page Odes of Pindar is just a list of any works called "Odes of Pindar". With regard to whether Odes of Pindar (Paley) and Odes of Pindar (Turner) are anthologies: in my mind there are two possibilities:
  • The Victory Odes are considered a single work. In that case, there needs to be a Translations page called Victory Odes or Epinika or Odes (Pindar) or something. I assume such a page would be somewhere between what is currently at Portal:Odes of Pindar and what is currently at Author:Pindar#Works.
  • Alternatively, we consider each of the odes to be a separate work. In that case, everything is more or less fine the way it is. But in that case it is also true that Odes of Pindar (Paley) is a collection or anthology of (the complete extant) works by Pindar, or more precisely a translation of such an anthology (which is still an anthology to my mind), and my edit to Odes of Pindar stands.
Anyway, when I saw the discussion regarding Odes of Pindar I assumed the former option was the case and was really confused by the way the pages were structured (especially the portal), but I realized it made sense if the latter option were the case. So I edited Odes of Pindar to make it clearer that the pages were structured according to the latter option. Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:57, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
I considered setting up some kind of Translations page, but instead opted for a Portal listing the individual odes for several reasons. One of the key reasons is that there are so many different English names and book titles under which such a page could be located: "(The) Odes of Pindar", "The Extant Odes of Pindar", "The Victory Odes of Pindar", "The Triumph Odes of Pindar", "Epinikia", or even simply "Pindar". Ultimately, I decided that any list on a Translations page would duplicate the list on Author:Pindar because, as I indicated, the Epinikia are his only surviving works. So they'll all be listed on his Author page, and any Translations page would be redundant. Creating a Portal for the individual Odes seemed a more useful venture, especially as the numbering of some of the odes differs among authors who disagree over where one ode ends and another begins. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:10, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: That makes sense. Could we then, in accordance with our usual way of doing things, do the following?:
That would clear up confusion and would be in accordance with the usual practices for these kinds of works. I'd be happy to assist with setting this up also. Beleg Tâl (talk) 02:52, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
RE: Moving. Moving the contents creates other issues. As I mentioned before, although the Epinikia as a collection is the only surviving portion of Pindar's works, some books translate only a portion of his Epinikia, so they wouldn't be properly situated at a location for the Epinikia as a whole. Just as we wouldn't consider Shakespeare's History plays to be equivalent to the body of his plays as a whole, it seems bad form to list, e.g., the Isthmian Odes at a translation page for the whole of the Epinikia. Likewise, authors such as Thoreau and Ambrose Philips translated only select odes. It is thus impossible also to treat the Epinikia as a single work in the way that you have suggested. Doing so would create a kind of page we have never had before, hence my choice of Portal, because the format is more flexible.
Some of the works could be listed at a Translations page for the Epinikia (those that actually translate the Epinikia entirely), but I never created such a page because of (a) unnecessary duplication and (b) too many possible titles. I don't see that such a page would add any utility to WS.
Re: Author subpage: I rejected this idea in part because it would prohibit the inclusion of works about the odes, and books about the groups of odes. It would also mean that, if the English Wikipedia ever did separate the biography of Pindar from the analysis of his Epinikia, we would have a subpage interwiki link to Wikipedia, which seems less than ideal to me. So the decision was made by thinking ahead to changes that are likely to happen at some point (some Wikipedias have a separate page about the Epinikia already, and Commons has a category). --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:18, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
That makes sense. You've convinced me that a Portal is the best approach. I do still think that a Translations page is also necessary, just because that is the way we do things around here. There are lots of works like this, and probably a few on Wikisource already. For example, Catullus' Carmina. If we treat the Epinikia as a single work, we can list partial translations in a separate section. Too many possible titles is a common issue also and we can easily deal with it by creating lots of redirects and disambig pages. Beleg Tâl (talk) 04:00, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
The disambiguation is part of the wrinkle: almost any title we choose for the Translations page is also the specific title of an English translation, so we end up potentially conflating a dab with a translations list. And it's part of why I didn't go ahead with creating a Translations page like I would normally do.
But the most challenging issue involves connecting to Wikidata. Because of the way WD is set up, then to properly hook into it, we need not only a Translations page for the Epinikia, but one for each of the four sections: the Olympic, Isthmian, Nemean, and Pythian Odes. And each of those translation pages ought to be linked to its corresponding data item on WD. But then we need a Translations page for each individual ode, and need to set up corresponding data items for each ode on Wikidata as a work, as well as individual data items for each separate translation of each ode, which will each have their oen data items linked from the data item for the ode as a work, but marking it as an "edition/translation" of that ode. Doing all of that for just the English Wikisource would be a Herculean task and take lots and lots of time to set up, since creating data items by bot is something I do not have the skill to do. Hence, I have postponed tackling any of that until some future time. Besides, there are still more translations of odes to be put up, and I'd rather use a bot to set all that up after all the English translations are in place, so it only has to be done once. --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:39, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: Fair enough. I'll leave it to you to decide how you want to set that up, when you've got the project in such a place that you're ready to do so. Good luck with the rest of the translations :) Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:32, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

The City of God[edit]

Just a heads up: this (now red) link (which I used a couple of years ago in another wiki) shows that you renamed the whole thing, but when I go to the new equivalent page, I can't help but notice an apparent mistake in the numbering of the chapters, viz., the title says "Chapter 4" when it's actually Chapter 3... and this oversight(?) is reflected in the other chapters as well. ~ DanielTom (talk) 22:18, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

@DanielTom: I've made a request at Wikisource:Bot requests#Decrement chapter numbers to handle the issue. Looks like you're the first to notice the issue since it was added in 2008 :) Beleg Tâl (talk) 02:07, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
If you have Linux (I don't), you can do it yourself (being admin) with the help of this script: 1, 2. Hrishikes (talk) 02:41, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Ooh, nice. I've been meaning to set up a Linux server and play around with wiki scripting, but I think there's still a ways to go before I get there. Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:18, 12 October 2017 (UTC)