Talk:Agreement of the Chamber of Deputies of Chile

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[edit] Bad-faith deletions

I consider repeated deletions of this article on the (spurious) grounds of copyright violation to be made in bad-faith. The Declaration is a public pronouncement by a national governing body, and hence not subject to copyright protection in any event.--76.17.171.199 08:02, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The Declaration itself may be free of copyright but the editor's note does not benefit from the same freedom, nor the translation unless it was published under the same circumstances which made the declaration free of copyright. It is the english translation that we are hosting on wikisource and I find it doubtful that the Chilean legislature would issue such a decree in English as well as Spanish. Please provide information about the translator --Metal.lunchbox 08:30, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

All of that information WAS provided in the pre-deleted version's discussion history (accounts now conveniently hose-bagged; I've restored as much as I recollect...not that it isn't hard for anyone to figure out by back-tracking the provided URL). Jose Pinera is a Chilean politician and economist who has freely hosted several language translations of the Declaration for over a decade (indeed, he's the primary proponant of making it more open knowledge among the non-Spanish-speaking), and there is no copyright notice on his particular webpage. Be that as it may, there is no compelling reason to delete the entire article -- linked to by a half-dozen Chile-relating Wikipedia entries -- on the grounds of a small editor's commentary possibly being copy-righted under the most preposterous of circumstances (the comment itself would qualify as Fair Use otherwise, since it is from a public personna commenting upon a government pronouncement).--76.17.171.199 09:40, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

This work was first discussed in May 2005 at Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2006-05, with User:Pathoschild indicating that he marked it with {{PD-manifesto}}.

It was then raised again at Wikisource:Possible copyright violations/Archives/2006-11#Declaration of the Breakdown of Chile’s_Democracy. I have reviewed the deleted content; the copy deleted on "22:34, 25 November 2006" by Newmanbe did not have {{PD-manifesto}} but it did link to the translation and state that the text was published in w:La Nación on August 25, 1973. As this did not have a license tag on it at the time, and there was a deletion discussion, this was not a bad faith deletion. In order to keep this work, more work needs to be done to establish why it is "free content".

This is one of the the most important Latin American documents of the 20th Century, and at least half a dozen Wikipedia articles link to this page; every effort should be made to contact Mr. Pinera in order to confirm his intent to publicly distribute his translation. (Rant: This intent is bluntly obvious.)

—unsigned comment by 76.17.171.199 (talk) 21:17, 23 November 2007.

If you are aware of the importance of the document, you are in a much better position to appeal to Mr. Pinera to explicitly release his translation into the public domain, or to relicense it under the GFDL or a CC license. Please take the initiative and do this so that his translation is guaranteed to be kept on Wikisource. John Vandenberg 22:02, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I am not in a "better position" than anyone else to appeal to the far-flung Mr. Pinera to goad his staff into updating his website at the behest of the ever-evolving copyright annoyances. If this article is hosed off Wiki(whatever), it, not the truth, will be what suffers when all of those pages start linking alt.dev_nul.--76.17.171.199 09:18, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

(sorry, I didnt mean to remove your reply)

Mr. Pinera does not need to update the website. We need some permission to be explicitly provided - that could simply be an email. If you are not willing to tackle this, it will need to be put on WS:COPYVIO. John Vandenberg 23:41, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I've emailed several times, but haven't received a response yet.--76.17.171.199 07:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for starting the ball rolling. We can wait a few weeks, to give them time to work out what is going on. John Vandenberg 10:35, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Public Domain license

jose(at)chile.com to me, Nov 26

I release my translation to English of this document into the "public commons" and will indicate so in the webpage. Please feel free to contact me again if I must write to someone in Wikipedia.

Best regards, Jose Piñera

...."--76.17.171.199 11:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Fantastic. Did he also release the other translations (German, Spanish, French, Polish) ?

The email you have have received from him needs to be sent to permission@wikimedia.org to be kept on file.

I have moved the license to the bottom, and added {{no license}} back again, because we dont yet have any legal basis for the original Chilean document to be considered PD.John Vandenberg 09:11, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

The original Chilean document is the text of the Resolution of August 22, of the Chilean legislature, and was printed in Chilean newspapers the day after its passage.--76.17.171.199 07:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC )

This is much less drastic, and the work is not likely to be deleted. The solution is merely that we need to investigate the copyright law of Chile, and create a template for this new type of document.

I was involved in a discussion about this type of Chilean work a while ago. See commons:Template talk:PD-Chile#Administrative source.

As an example, I created {{PD-INGov}} today.

I've changed the original source tag to PD-manifesto.--76.17.171.199 07:25, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

The resolution of a government is not a manifesto. John Vandenberg 15:21, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Is the resolution of a government copywriteable? I'm not seeing the necessity of an original translation tag associated with this page.--76.17.171.199 04:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes, many governments retain the copyright for the usual period of time, and at the same time describe it as "public information". This is done so that the text can not be misrepresented, and to ensure that unofficial translations are not redistributed. I do not know what the laws of Chile are, but it is reasonable to assume that we can figure this out with a bit of time & effort. As a result, I have created a new tag "{{new license required}}", which is a bit less scary. John Vandenberg 01:22, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

---

I also release our translations to German, French and Polish of the text of the Chamber of Deputies Resolution of August 22, 1973 into Public Domain.

Best regards, Jose Piñera

PS. The original text in Spanish is public domain, as every official document of the Chilean Legislature. It was published in the government newspaper LA NACION on August 25, 1973. --76.17.171.199 01:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you again. I have rolled back to the "{{new license required}}" tag, as we are not finished with this yet - that tag is there to remind us that more work needs to be done. We need to create a new license that will cover all Chilean government documents. For this we need to find out the legal definitions of what types of documents are released by the government - i.e. we need to know the section of the Chilean law.

Once we have created a new template, we will not have this problem when new Chilean government documents appear on Wikisource. John Vandenberg 02:46, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Translation

How can the title be "Declaration of the Breakdown of Chile’s Democracy", while in Spanish it's "Acuerdo de la Cámara de Diputados sobre el grave quebrantamiento del orden constitucional y legal de la República" or just "Acuerdo de la Cámara de Diputados" ?

The right title is either Agreement of the Chilean Chamber of Deputies or Agreement of the Chamber of Deputies of Chile. --Vanngot (talk) 19:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)