Talk:Treaty of Edinburgh–Northampton
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Modern English[edit]
Was the treaty written in modern standard English or is this just a translation of something else? —unsigned comment by 84.135.206.48 (talk) 01:31, 16 August 2006.
- No. It should have been written in Middle English. It seems that this version has been modernized.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 15:58, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
- No, it was actually written in french. (Possibly chosen as a 'neutral' language that both the ambassadors knew?) Two identical copies were made, top and bottom, on a single sheet, which was then cut in half with a wavy line. The bottom copy is in the National Archives of Scotland, in Edinburgh. I don't know where the top copy is -- possibly in English records in London, or lost? T bonham (talk) 06:00, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Norman French would not have been exactly 'a neutral language' at this time. French was still the normal everyday language of both the Scottish and English courts. The Kings of both countries being of Norman French ancestry both still described themselves and their chief followers as being 'French' not Scots or English. On a further note the Treaty itself oddly makes no reference to its more detailed terms such as the payment by Scotland to England of £100,000 - see the Scottish Parliamentary archives. Cassandra.
Time of signature[edit]
Would anyone know the time this treaty was signed? I understand it was backdated to March 1st from May 3rd —unsigned comment by 194.176.105.39 (talk) 20:30, 13 May 2008.
As you may already know, w:Treaty of Edinburgh-Northampton says it was ratified on May 3rd, signed on the 17th, and ratified on May 3rd.
According to page 350-2 of this...
| “ | summoned for this purpose, a truce in the meantime having been agreed upon, during the continuance of the negotiations. The truce was to last from 23rd Nov til 23rd March 1328 , Rymer. vol iv. p ...
At length on the 1st of March, 1327-8, the English parliament assembled at York; and this important preliminary, which had cost so great an expense of blood and treasure to both kingdoms, during a terrible war of twenty years, was finally and satisfactorily adjusted. Robert was acknoledged as King of Scotland, and Scotland itself recognised for ever as a free and independent kingdom. It was declared by Edward, in the solemn words of the instrument of renunciation, "that whereas .... By the king himself, and his council in Parliament." There are three copies of this important deed known to our historians, One in Rymer, vol iv. p 337, taken from a transcript in the Chronicles of ...., another in Goodal's edition of Fordun, and a third in a public instrument of Henry Wardlaw, bishop of St Andrews, copied by this prelate, 17th March 1415. It is from this last, as published by Goodal, (Fordun, vol ii. p289) that I have taken the translation. This important preliminary having been amicably settled, the English and Scottish commissioners did no find it difficult to come to an arrangement upon the final treaty. Accordingly, peace with English was concluded at Edinburgh, on the 17th of March, 1327-8,* and confirmed on the part of the English government, in a parliament held at Northampton, on the 4th of May 1328. |
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So that confirms the March 1 date of negotiations starting, that it was signed on the 17th, but gives a different ratification date to that given by Wikipedia. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:44, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Actually, it wasn't 'signed' at all, The Kings signatures are not on the document. They signified their agreement by affixing their royal seals to straps hanging from the bottom of the document. Which are now lost; the straps remain, but the actual wax seals did not survive the past 700 years. T bonham (talk) 06:04, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
Source?[edit]
I'm a student of history from Marburg, Germany and I'm looking for the original source of the treaty of edinburgh and northampton. The article is useful but i need to know where it is taken from. the link above don't works. TKasp (talk) 08:06, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
- That would have been the link at the time of the contribution, and your skills to locate it now are probably as good as ours. I would suggest that you search scotland.gov.uk, alternatively it may be in the archives of archive.org. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:51, 1 August 2011 (UTC)