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because I'm interested to know what caused this conversation.
A It was something that happened in the Oval—I'm sorry, in the back dining room—where—and, , to the best of my knowledge, I don't remember, but he and the President said something and Pat spun up.
And my—again, what I tried to counsel all the advisers the best I could is, you get paid a lot of money to give your best advice in a calm fashion in any situation, especially in a crisis situation, bad situation, or contentious situation.
And, , I can't remember. But I do remember—I do remember I said something to Pat about it. I can't remember the exact conversation about it.
Q Okay. And so was it—was Mr. Cipollone worked up?
A Yes.
Q I mean, was he angry?
A , he was worked up.
Q Who was he worked up at?
A About the—whatever was discussed in the back office and—
Q Was he upset with the President?
A I don't know. And now thinking about it, and I'm really thinking hard, I think maybe I wasn't in the back office, but I met Pat in the Oval. He was coming out; I was going in. And he was—words to the effect, basically, "What's up?"
Q What made you think he was upset?
A The way he was talking, you know. When you have an elevated voice, you're talking loud, which is totally out of character. And that's when you say, well, wait a second, you know, everybody take a deep breath, calm down.
Q What was it that he said?
A I don't—it was just the way, his tone.
