not yield to the changed circumstances of Italian life, then in my estimation, in the estimation of non-Fascists, I believe then and not before, Fascism will fall.
Judge Cotillo: There has been much talk about the incapability of Italy to control itself. May I say that Italy has been a seat of learning and law for many years?
Question: If it is true that Italy has for a long time been a seat of law and learning, why is it that it has not evolved the writ of habeas corpus, in order that the anti-Fascists may be taken out of jail and given a fair trial?
Judge Cotillo: If I hadn't just recovered from an operation, I would reply at length to the question. The writ of habeas corpus originates in the Justinian Code, and that goes back to the Roman law. Whether they are using it at this time or not, Mr. Chairman, I am not able to say, for I have been out of touch with matters for about a year, but it is in the law, and you will find it in the Justinian Code.
The Chairman: Here is a question addressed to Professor Salvemini: "What is the present relation and what is likely to be the future relation between Fascism and the Catholic Church?"
Professor Salvemini: The Roman Catholic Church is an abstract word which covers many millions of people. The Roman Catholic Church, like the Italian people, is not a homogeneous unit.
So in the Roman Catholic Church you find the peasantry and the parish priests who are in a great majority, anti-Fascist. The bishops are divided. In the Vatican, a certain number of cardinals are pro-Fascist, and other cardinals, for instance, Cardinal Gasparri, are anti-Fascist. But Cardinal Gasparri does not deal with Italy. When somebody tells him about Italy, he says, "Italy is not in my department. Go upstairs." A majority of the Jesuits are pro-Fascist. A Jesuit padre, Tacchi Venturi, is one of the intimate counselors of Mussolini.
The Pope, in his personal leanings, is pro-Fascist, but in order not to scandalize the great mass of the parish priests and the peasants, he must be cautious in his pro-Fascism. So, in his allocutions he deplores the acts of violence of the Fascists, but at the same time he is friendly with Mussolini. When the Pope deplores the violence of Fascism, he is expressing the opinion of that part of the Roman Catholic Church which is formed by the parish priests. When he is cordial with Mussolini, he is expressing the feelings nearest his heart.
The Chairman: We have three minutes more, and I think perhaps the best way to dispose of those three minutes is to ask one question of each of the two speakers and ask them if they won't answer them within the time.
One question addressed to Professor Roselli is this: How does Professor Roselli defend the treatment of the German minorities in the Southern Tyrol?
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