Crystal. And that was in the early phases of the project. So it was clear that Donald Trump -- so the equity partner was the related group.
It was clear that this Russian had been brought into this with Trump, and what you can surmise from that is that he's there to say there are buyers. We can bring you buyers for this property. And that's what a developer needs to know is that he's got buyer interest.
MR. SCHIFF: And how does it work? Let's say Sergi Millian or someone else lines up the Russian buyers. The Russian buyers sign presale agreements. Trump can then get financing for the rest of the project. Do the buyers go through and buy the properties, or is that no longer necessary, once you've obtained the bank financing you can actually sell them to real people?
MR. SIMPSON: So it's fraud if they don't. I mean, you have to warrant to the lender that you've already sold X number of units. And there's supposed to be contracts, downpayments, all of that sort of thing. So in the case of Panama where the evidence is the most vivid, there's -- the buyers were fake. I mean, they were real people. They just never paid.
MR. SCHIFF: And you say the evidence is most vivid, is it -- did this come out in Panama Papers? How do you know that this is the case?
MR. SIMPSON: This -- it's in public records. I mean, I think there's media interest in this, and there's going to probably be more stories about it. But I've heard about it. It's been -- there's lawsuits that we found during the election by some of the later buyers alleging that the earlier buyers, that it was a fraud, and describes marketing events at Mar-a-Lago with Trump and various Russians where, you know, it's clear that Trump is working with Russians to sell these condos in Panama and some of the -- you know, the project, like all these projects,
UNCLASSIFIED, COMMITTEE SENSITIVE
