…
I also told her that, you know, this is big news, and she said, "Yes, with the election so close".
…
She did talk about CCTV footage. I'm unsure if – it was definitely in the topic of conversation, either it would show how drunk she was or she wanted to see it or someone had seen it and told her how drunk she was …
(Emphasis added)
294 Senior counsel for Network Ten then asked her to do the best she could as to which of the reasons she gave for asking for mentioning the CCTV footage and the following exchange occurred (T1181.24–32):
I'm sorry. It was a long time ago. Yes?---It would show how drunk she was. She said the word "CCTV" in that conversation.
Thank you. And how did that conversation end?---I said, "I'm really sorry," and, you know, "I really want you to press this. It's really bad what's happened," and I gave her reassurances that I was here if she needed to talk to me.
295 Although Major Irvine rightly conceded the conversation was a long time ago, I accept these exchanges occurred as recounted.
F.6Mr Payne
296 Mr Christopher Payne was a departmental liaison officer. The impression I gleaned was that he was not at all fond of Mr Lehrmann. He gave extensive evidence, which I generally accept, about a security breach, but was quite fuzzy about the timing of some other events. At trial, Mr Payne augmented some details of a conversation with Ms Brown absent from earlier accounts which, together with his manner of giving this evidence, leads me to treat his account of his communications with Ms Brown with some hesitation.
297 However, one aspect of his evidence that was given clearly and firmly was in relation to a contemporaneous representation by Ms Higgins, which I consider to be of real importance.
298 It occurred during a conversation between Ms Higgins and Mr Payne, probably on 28 March 2019, which Mr Payne had initiated after Mr Payne had observed Ms Higgins was teary and upset. Parts of his evidence are worth setting out at length to see the context of the emphasised representation (T1422–3):
DR COLLINS: … can you take his Honour through, again, doing the best you can, what words did she use and what words did you use?---Certainly. So once Brittany
