was held in Mr. Bush's office, 123 Pearl street, New York. We sought that interview for the purpose of finding out what our position would be on the Pennsylvania Railroad after the termination of our contract with the Empire Line, which they had assumed. We had quite a plain talk on the subject. We began by telling Mr. Cassatt something that he already knew—that we for the past year had been probably the largest shippers over the Pennsylvania Railroad that they had had; largest shippers of petroleum. He acknowledged it, and we asked him if we should, after the first of May, be on the same footing and have as low a rate of freight as anybody else, which was guaranteed by contract up to that time. He said no, we would not. We asked him why not. Well, he said, it would not be satisfactory to the Standard Oil Company. I then put the question to him what difference it made to the Pennsylvania Railroad Company whether it was satisfactory to the Standard Oil Company or not. He said that the Standard Oil Company was the only party which could keep peace between the trunk lines. I said, It seems to me you have the matter very much in your own hands; there are but four of you; if you agree upon a certain rate of freight the oil is to come forward at, I see no use of the intervention of a third party or a fifth party in this case. He said, I cannot trust—or rather, he said, They are the only people that can keep harmony. Then we had a little discussion about the rates. He said that they had been bringing oil for the past year at a very low rate. I told him I understood it was a little over seventy cents an average on crude petroleum. He denied it, and said it was not. Then when we were talking about the subject of rates, he said of course the rates on petroleum were very profitable, and said we could find out the rate at which they could bring petroleum, if they were compelled to, by looking up their annual report, and seeing the cost a ton per mile, which was something like five or six mills per ton per mile, and which if we figured that it would be a very profitable business. We told him we did not object to him making a good profit at any time; all we wished was to have as low a rate of freight as anybody else had, which we could not get.
"He said we had better make an arrangement with the Standard and we would all of us make money, and that they had a very large business and proposed to make money, and the discrimination would be so light against us that we would hardly notice it, and we formed the idea from what he said. We asked him whether the discrimination against us would be larger if the rate of freight were high than it would if the rate of freight were low. He said, yes, it would be, but he said the discrimination would be very small. We tried to find out by asking what it would be, but did not succeed. He then said if we would unite with the Standard we would do better and everything would be peaceable and harmonious, and he would use his efforts to promote such a union if we wished it. We told him we did not wish to unite with the Standard; we dealt on freight matters with the Pennsylvania Railroad, not with the Standard Oil Company.
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