the railroads in regard to the matter of rebate on their charges for freight; they did not want to give us a rebate unless it was with the understanding that all the refineries should be brought into the arrangement and placed upon the same level; there was no difference made as far as we were concerned, in favour of or against any refinery; they were all to come in alike; that was the understanding from the first to the last.
Q. Where are the refineries situated?
A. Situated in New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Boston, on the sea-board, and in the Oil Region, Pittsburg, and Cleveland.
Q. You say you made propositions to railroad companies, which they agreed to accept upon the condition that you could include all the refineries?
A. No, sir; I did not say that; I said that was the understanding when we discussed this matter with them; it was no proposition on our part; they discussed it not in the form of a proposition that the refineries should be all taken in, but it was the intention and resolution of the company from the first that that should be the result; we never had any other purpose in the matter.
Q. In case you could take the refineries all in, the railroads proposed to give you a rebate upon their freight charges?
A. No, sir; it was not put in that form; we were to put the refineries all in, upon the same terms; it was the understanding with the railroad companies that we were to have a rebate; there was no rebate given in consideration of our putting the companies all in, but we told them we would do it; the contract with the railroad companies was with us.
Q. But if you did form a company composed of the proprietors of all these refineries, you were to have a rebate upon your freight charges?
A. No; we were to have the rebate anyhow; but were to give all the refineries the privilege of coming in.
Q. You were to have the rebate whether they came in or not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Were you to have a rebate upon the same freight charges that had been in existence before ?
A. No; the whole object of the railroad authorities was to get better freight prices.
.......
Q. What effect was this arrangement to have upon the producer or upon the refineries that did not go into your combination?
A. According to our opinion of it that is the way we have got into this trouble; we have been misconstrued and misrepresented as to our purposes all over the country; the whole object was, and our whole talk was, as far as any of my friends came into the matter, or as far as I myself was concerned, that the producers should receive a better price for their oil; we calculated to get five or six dollars a barrel for crude oil;
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