that was from the beginning of our talk until the end of it; we had not our company organised, or at least the organisation was not completed, nor the contract signed, until all these disturbances commenced to be gotten up; we thought the matter would quiet down and we would get a chance to explain our position and put ourselves right; we asked for the opportunity to do so; we have evidence of that in the telegrams we sent, and I can say, under oath, that they were sent in good faith; there was never an idea in my mind that they were not. . . . I will state further that this matter was discussed with Mr. Scott by myself, personally, and in very great length, and also with Mr. Potts, who never has had any interest and never any part in this contract, and who spoke of this very matter from the start, expressing the opinion that it could not succeed unless the producers were taken care of. That was understood by us all from the start in every discussion we had, and by the railroad people as far as I heard from them. I can only answer for the railroad people from the conversation I had personally with Mr. Scott and Mr. Potts, in which it was perfectly understood that we could not succeed in carrying out these measures for our own benefit and the benefit of the railroads without the co-operation of the producers, and the only point we discussed was whether it should be a combination or co-operation. I took the ground personally against forming a combination inasmuch as the interests of the producers were in one sense antagonistic to ours, one as the seller and the other as the buyer. We held in argument that the producers were abundantly able to take care of their own branch of the business if they took care of the quantity produced. They were only liable to depression from our production, therefore they had in their own hands directly the power of holding the market at six or eight dollars a barrel.
Q. You did not take into consideration the good of the consumers of the country, which is by far the larger part of the population of the country?
A. Yes, we did.
Q. You wanted to put up the price of oil?
A. In answer to that I will state that the producers and refiners were both suffering under the depression that existed. The refiners were not getting enough to pay their expenses. All we asked was a fair refiner's profit.
Q. What effect were these arrangements to have upon those who did not come into the combination or co-operation, as you have termed it, as to the price to be charged for transporting their oil, both refiners and producers?
A. I do not think we ever took that question up.
Q. Were the railroad companies to charge the same increase of freights to those who did not come into the combination that they did to you without giving them a rebate?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now in case you could control the oil produced by these people in any combination that you made, were you not to have a rebate upon the oil?
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