User talk:Alpertunga5000

Welcome

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Again, welcome! John Vandenberg 19:26, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you John! I've actually joined back in April'07, but didn't contribute much till now. Thanks again, Adil.

header & licenses

Hi Adil, I am going through tagging all of your contributions with maintenance tags, so that they are not forgotten. If you have specific questions, drop me a note, or ask on our village pump which is the main discussion board for Wikisource, and it is rather active.

{{no header}} is an easy one to fix: all pages need a header, and ideally all pages should be included on a topical index of some sort, otherwise I will tag them with {{orphan}}. Our topical indexes are all in the "Wikisource" namespace, and are intended to be a guide to help readers find documents. We dont have a policies on POV, NOR, etc, but these pages should be kept strictly as an index without too much unnecessary baggage. For example, UN documents might be added to Portal:United Nations. Documents about a nation might be placed on Portal:Azerbaijan, which should look something like Portal:Australia.

{{no license}} is often a lot more work. We have templates for UN documents, US Gov. documents and Old works, but we dont have templates for many classes of public domain documents. Sometimes this is because the legal basis for a template has yet to be established (e.g. User:Jayvdb/PD-EU), or it might just be that nobody has bothered yet. Works that are not furnished with a template may be deleted, but we dont speedy them, and in general we dont rush around madly here, so your work wont be deleted without giving you a fair chance to establish the legality of the documents you have uploaded.

As I said above, we dont have the strong policy framework that exists on Wikipedia, but that doesnt mean we are not strict. If you are not sure whether something is permissible, it is better to ask at WS:S first.

Enjoy, John Vandenberg 19:45, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! I will try to fix the headers today, and handle the license later -- FYI, all documents are from public domain, i.e., they are all open, official government statements, records, and are thus copyright-free and easy to check, verify. AdilBaguirov 19:49, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Copyright for government documents is not as easy as it seems. There is a difference between "public record" (available for everyone to obtain a copy of) and "public domain" (free for anyone to do anything with). The latter requires an explicit legal grant. For example, in Australia all government documents are copyright for the first 50 years after publication. So, when a new law or court decision is published, I am not permitted to put it on Wikisource until 50 years later. Silly, but true. So it is wise to not add too many works without a license tag, otherwise you might find out later on that it is not actually legal, in which case we will have to delete them. John Vandenberg 20:03, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

page names

This needs to be renamed to be in "sentence" form, per WS:STYLE. Without knowing more about the topic, I would name it:

"Statement by the Parliament of the Republic of Azerbaijan on the 13th anniversary of the occupation of the city of Shusha of the Republic of Azerbaijan by the armed forces of Armenia"

However, if you can pick a shorter name, that would be good. John Vandenberg 19:54, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, I've moved the article to that name. Meanwhile, what do you suggest to do regarding all the official statements, resolutions, speeches from Azerbaijani and other governments, that don't seem to have any explicit copyleft/permissions to use? Although this is clearly implied and common sense, that all official government statements, resolutions, motions, documents, etc., are all in public domain (unless specifically designated as Secret, Confidential or For Office Use Only). But what to do? AdilBaguirov 19:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Each government has different copyright laws, so you will need to read them carefully to determine what provisions are made for works of the government. Usually the government copyright will expire sooner than private copyright. Works published by international organisations like OIC are much more difficult to determine; they may have their own by-laws which stipulate what what they release into the public domain, but many organisations do not consider doing that, in which case they inherit the copyright granted by the nation they publish the documents from. What you might like to do is request that the organisation clarify their position on copyright, either on their website or via official correspondence with the Wikimedia Foundation. John Vandenberg 20:11, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

The OIC documents are all straight from Azerbaijani MFA website, whilst all other Azerbaijani documents are from its embassies. Hence, I think if MFA clarifies its position, it should cover all of this. I have written to them, along with PACE, to clarify their status. I will stop adding more documents till then, and just work on improving the headers, footers of the existing one's. Thank again for your help! AdilBaguirov 20:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Pausing for clarification from the official bodies is a good idea. There are still many ways to keep yourself busy here. You can create Wikisource:Azerbaijan, create and populate Category:Azerbaijan, add works by the UN and US government, and transcribe and add almost any work published before 1923 (see {{PD-1923}}). We accept old published encyclopedia entries, such as The Penny Cyclopedia/Georgia, and old newspaper articles such as The New York Times/Nurses stuck to post. John Vandenberg 20:22, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Excellent, I have many USG and UN documents in the pipeline. Also, what about OSCE, IMF or WorldBank? Are those pre-cleared for Wikisource? AdilBaguirov 20:26, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I am not sure. I have tried to find a clear legal basis for include WTO documents, and not been successful yet; I presume that other bodies like it are also in muddy water. John Vandenberg 20:36, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

images

wrt to Image:PACELogo130X120.jpg, we do not upload images here. All images should be uploaded onto Commons unless there is a good reason why that cant happen. see Wikisource:Image guidelines. John Vandenberg 20:15, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

But those two images are "an image used in the original text;" as stated in the Wikisource:Image guidelines. So it can stay, right? AdilBaguirov 20:24, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

We dont have a legal basis to host the original text yet, so the images in it are not acceptable. Also note that trademarks are still a problem, even if copyright is not. Note that we do delete images quite quickly. John Vandenberg 20:39, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

John, here's a relevant excerpt from the Council of Europe website, which both hosts the PACE website (which, incidentally, does not have a Terms of Use or Copyright page) and is its parent organization: [1] "Unless otherwise indicated, reproduction of material posted on Council of Europe websites, and reproduction of photographs for which the Council of Europe holds copyright – see legal notice “photo credits” – is authorised for private use and for information and educational uses relating to the Council of Europe’s work. This authorisation is subject to the condition that the source be indicated and no charge made for reproduction.

Persons wishing to make some other use, including commercial use, of information and text posted on these sites are asked to apply in advance for written authorisation to the Council of Europe, Directorate of Communication and Research." and "Photographs marked Council of Europe and unmarked photographs are the property of the Council of Europe - they may be used on any medium, provided that the source is indicated. No charge may be made for using them, and such use must be private or concerned with information or education on the Council’s work."

Thus, it seems like COE and thus its "child organization" PACE grants permission to use their documents for non-commercial use as long as credit is given to them and the documents are provided to informational and educational purposes -- which is what Wikisource does. AdilBaguirov 07:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

While Wikisource is non-commercial, our copyright policy requires that all content on Wikisource must be able to be re-used commercially. John Vandenberg 07:13, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey, just to let you know I created Wikisource:Azerbaijan - I'm going to to try and find some texts to add. Don't get discouraged by recent events, they'll clear up soon :) Sherurcij ^{Collaboration of the Week: Wikisource:Sheet music} 21:22, 16 January 2008 (UTC)