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The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel webclient.
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hyphenated word start when the word contains a template[edit]

At Page:Thoughts_on_the_Education_of_Daughters.djvu/29 I'm using the hws template on a word containing a long s. When I insert the {{ls}} template inside the hws template, the html breaks. Thanks in advance for any help getting this to work. MartinPoulter (talk) 11:46, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Well spotted. Some templates are just too "clever" for their own good.

Note for future: if anyone tries to address this issue in the template itself [maybe a genuine separate title or popup parameter; or maybe even parameter content filtering (yuck)?], remember all of {{hyphenated word end}}, {{linkable phrase start}} and {{linkable phrase end}} will have the exactly the same issues as well. AuFCL (talk) 23:14, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Or just not bother with the template and just stick the hyphenated text in the footer. The 'start' template is an artefact of an early time when footers were not well-functioning and really serves little purpose these days, cf. the close template which has functionality. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:10, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Technically @Billinghurst is correct but culturally insensitive. Nobody likes to see the magic trampled upon, and this suggestion is completely at odds with the Help recommendations. However nominally you're the boss… AuFCL (talk) 11:13, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks all. I didn't realise there was this asymmetry between the templates. So I can ignore the hws template, but I still have the problem that the next page, Page:Thoughts_on_the_Education_of_Daughters.djvu/30, starts with "destly", the second part of the hyphenated word "modestly". The hwe template has the same problem, so what do you recommend? Avoid templates and just move the whole word to the top of the second page? MartinPoulter (talk) 12:12, 4 May 2015 (UTC) Now both pages are fixed. Cheers, MartinPoulter (talk) 12:27, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
That was a reflection AuFCL, not a direction; we have no boss, just contributors and opinions. I am aware of the culture which is why I haven't amended the help page. It is a kludge, though one that may have nice balance, though something of its time, and adds some prettiness to the Page: ns though at this point of time no demonstrated value to the main namespace. @MartinPoulter: it is a display thing, in circumstances where we have problems like that don't be afraid to have judicious use of <includeonly> tags as ultimately that is what it does, eg. on the second page have
<includeonly>{{ls}}illi</includonly>ne{{ls}}s
just wrapping the hyphenation component from the previous page in the tag so it doesn't display in the transcription, though will show when we transclude. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:53, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

Looking for a better font family / style[edit]

THIS HEADER uses the {{Pfos}} title template with the {{Blackletter}} font where the letter "S" looks more like a "G". Does anyone know of a similar free font, more like the original print (Old English)? — Ineuw talk 01:41, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

What's the purpose of replicating the fraktur style font here? Is it integral to the work, or is it just a "pretty"? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:31, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Beeswaxcandle:I guess 'just pretty', or just to be closer to the original - Please remember that I am only imitating other editors, and we all have done so at one time or another.
Can't comment on his motivations but maybe Ineuw was yearning for the 'old' Blackletter font family (I think it was "Cloister Black" or maybe that was a local "fix" for "Fraktur"?) which was ditched way back in the never-never for the current 'free licence' UnifrakturMaguntia? As best I recall this situation dates back to at least January last year. That discussion suggests Google fonts was somehow involved. AuFCL (talk) 05:43, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Beeswaxcandle, pretty is good. I too like some of the old fonts instead of the bland text we use here. It is somewhat like having an illustrated book instead of a non-illustrated book. Art is beautiful to the eye of the beholder. —Maury (talk) 06:23, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
UnifrakturMaguntia is the first and only server-side blackletter/fraktur font on Wikisource. The previous system suggested a font family on the user-side but that depended on the user having such a font available (the back-up option was bold text in the normal font). If an additional free font can be found, it should be possible to add it to the system in the same way UnifrakturMaguntia is supported, but it needs to be free in the same way everything else here is free (ie. open, distributable, modifiable etc, not just "costs nothing"). In UnifrakturMaguntia's case it was with the SIL Open Font License (OFL). I don't know that much about fonts or the licensing thereof and I couldn't find much via Google; although the PiratePower on openfontlibrary.org seems OK at a quick glance. NB: Even if an acceptable alternative font can be found, it might take a while to be implemented; this could be a lot of work for just one glyph in one work. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 11:33, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
AuFCL and Maury got it right, and thanks to AdamBMorgan for clarifying what and how fonts are implemented. — Ineuw talk 12:01, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
I've been looking at the original Sourceforge page and it does have an option for a alternative modern-S glyph. In raw CSS, it could be implemented with this: <span style="font-family:'UnifrakturMaguntia'; font-feature-settings:'cv08'; -moz-font-feature-settings:'cv08'; -webkit-font-feature-settings:'cv08'; -ms-font-feature-settings:'cv08';">Fragments of Science</span> which gives Fragments of Science. I don't think this is standard CSS (presumably the reason for the repetition with prefixes), nor compatible with all web browsers, but it should work on most. I am not sure how, or if, this could be done with the {{Blackletter}} and {{ULS}} templates at the moment but the feature is at least available. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 12:16, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@AdamBMorgan:, Thanks for your help. I checked the four different browsers in Windows 7 (IE11, Chrome, Opera and FF.) and it works with all. — Ineuw talk 13:33, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
@Ineuw: I haven't touched {{Pfos}} but I've made changes to both {{Blackletter}} and {{ULS}} to alter the default appearance of "S" and "k". This affects all instances of the template across Wikisource but I think this was a longstanding complaint anyway. (If this has caused a problem for anyone, please just revert my recent edits to both templates.) With {{Pfos}}, the letter-spacing element might be conflicting with this function in some way. For example: {{blackletter|Snakes!}} = Snakes!, but {{sp|{{blackletter|Snakes!}}}} = Snakes!. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 18:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, it looks great. In addition, thanks for introducing me to {{ULS}}. Just goes to show you how little I know about the availble templates.— Ineuw talk 19:29, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Another font related question, please.[edit]

In THIS PSM title template, I tried to make it look closer to THIS ORIGINAL using "style=font-family:Arial narrow, sans-serif;" but without any luck. Can I assume that the problem is related to Arial not being used because it's not an open style font. Can someone point to the error of my ways? — Ineuw talk 14:10, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

For starters - shouldn't that be style="font-family:'Arial narrow', sans-serif;" ?

Note the double and single quote marks; if a font name has any spaces in it, the name needs to be wrapped in the a set of quote marks itself ( ' ) -- the "opposite" of what is wrapping the style string ( " ). -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:49, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

Thanks GO3. Irregardless, there is no such a thing as 'Arial Narrow' in my computer's or browser's font choices so I selected 'Liberation Sans Narrow', which is just as good.— Ineuw talk 02:14, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
I still have Arial, Arial Black, Arial Narrow, Arial Unicode MS, French Script MT, Vivaldi, Old English, ShelleyVolante and about 100 other fonts. I once used some of them in webpages and MSWORD. N.B. Happy Birthday to me @68 in many fonts except comic. I have lived longer than you fellows (except perhaps Ineuw) and you all may not make it this far. —Maury (talk) 05:59, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
Fonts I have, and are not the problem for me. I am concerned about visiting readers who don't have the fonts for full effect, or other browser problems. I am trying to cover everyone.— Ineuw talk 06:34, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Calligraphic font[edit]

Need some guidance about what font to use in Index:The Constitution of India (Original Calligraphed and Illuminated Version).djvu. The work is handwritten, so a suitable font would be nice. Initially I tried Edwardian Script ITC, with ULS template, which looked nice in my laptop. Then I checked with other devices and found font unsupported, so reverted the uls thing. Can anyone suggest a font compatible across browsers and devices, at least the modern ones? There is another problem. The work has illustrations on almost every page, done by India's master artists. Inline drawings are no problem, but the pages have intricately illustrated frames. If these frames are kept (I have kept them for now), the pages cannot combine on transclusion. Will such non-combination due to framed pages be OK? Hrishikes (talk) 02:13, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

This is only an adjunct note as I do not believe any portable "written" font is available universally (i.e. served out via the wiki and related systems.) However if one is decided upon may I recommend {{cursive}} be at least tested or updated accordingly? AuFCL (talk) 07:21, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I have applied the template to page 9. This template does not work in android. Hrishikes (talk) 08:10, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
I did not mean to imply this would necessarily solve your issue. On the contrary I wanted to note that this template would need to be updated in line with whatever solution you chose as it has been used in the past to indicate similar situations.

Apologies if you took my earlier comment otherwise. Back to the more immediately usable suggestions. AuFCL (talk) 22:25, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

┌──────┘
I suggest you consider treating this work along the lines of Zodiac Killer letters where both the transcribed text and the page images are available in parallel. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:22, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. The zodiac images are small and sidelined, not good for appreciating intricate illustrations. I have just thought up another solution. Index:The Constitution of India 1949 (Gazette Notification Version).djvu may be used as the text version for proper transclusion. This calligraphic version may be transcluded as images. There is no major difference between the two except calligraphy & illustrations in one and Gazette masthead and publisher/printer etc. in the other. So these two may be parallel image and text versions. Is the idea any good? Although I don't know how to run them concurrently. Hrishikes (talk) 08:43, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
Yep, the Zodiac images are thumbnail versions, which isn't what you want. It was more the idea of running both text and images. To run the two sets concurrently, you'll probably need to use a two-column table with the text on the left and the image on the right. It will mean transcluding by page rather than as a series of pages. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:55, 13 May 2015 (UTC)
@Beeswaxcandle: Pagewise length of text is not same in the two sets, so the table method will require slicing up the text version into artificial sections. For the time being, I have let go of the calligraphy and gone for framed page (as opposed to full image) transclusion. But the framed pages are curiously getting right-aligned.
@AuFCL: At present there are two problems with the cursive template. It has to be repeated if another template comes in between, which is very cumbersome. Secondly, it is not supported across devices like the black letter template. But this template has the potential of becoming very useful for heritage texts (where it is desirable to maintain cursiveness, e.g., manuscripts, as the work under discussion technically is.) if it is updated suitably. Hrishikes (talk) 01:18, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

St. Patrick's Breastplate[edit]

The St. Patrick's Breastplate page has the text of the victorian hymn based on St Patrick's Breastplate. As this hymn is better known as "I bind unto myself to-day" I think the page should be renamed as that. Can someone do that?

According to The Telegraph Book of Hymns on Google books (chapter 54, page 185) C F Alexander didn't do the translation. she wrote the hymn based on translations by others - see wikipedia:Saint Patrick's Breastplate which I have also rewritten to match the reference.

The original Saint Patrick's Breastplate in Old Irish is on oldwikisource, together with a translation. unsigned comment by Filceolaire (talk) 02:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC).

Page Checker gadget - page is not directing properly . . . again[edit]

Please try itIneuw talk 21:08, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Still not working and tried with Firefox for Mac and Safari --kathleen wright5 (talk) 14:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Not working in Firefox on Windows 7 for me either. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Who "fixed" it the last time it was not working? Certainly nobody here on WS can/did; all we have control over is the icon and the URL it automatically generates & executes when clicked on. Everything else takes place via the tool's host over on WMF Labs --but-- I'm not exactly sure where or who to poke to draw attention to our issue @ tools.wmflabs.org. Phabricator? Tool's Owner? anyone? Beuler? -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:39, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Polytonic template[edit]

I noticed that the polytonic template used on wikipedia is deprecated. Should we avoid it also? I noticed that on one of the computers I have the font becomes pixelated when the template is used whereas if it isn't used it looks better with the native font.Jpez (talk) 05:58, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

I'm not seeing any problems, but it really depends on which fonts you've got installed. The {{polytonic}} template is looking for "Athena, Gentium, 'Palatino Linotype', 'Arial Unicode MS', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', 'Lucida Grande', Code2000". I usually use the {{greek}} template, which adds DejaVu Sans to the beginning of the list. The templated characters are preferable to the raw Greek characters because a) the template automatically assigns the gr language tag; b) the glyphs are more easily distinguished as Greek from the Roman glyphs around them, which follows the usual foreign language convention. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:27, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Ok thanks Beeswaxcandle, will do. Thanks for the explanation and clarification. Jpez (talk) 09:57, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
fwiw @Jpez: I'm fairly sure the reason that and similar templates are already deprecated or are about to be deprecated is the not-too-long-ago [re]acceptance & restoration of ULS WebFonts foundation wide after some of the previous "kinks" with having it as a standard were addressed.

To see if you have the WebFont/ULS feature enabled, click the Gear icon next to the Languages navigation side-bar menu, select the Fonts tab and make sure the option to Download fonts when needed.... is checked (make sure to save/apply any changes you may make!). -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:55, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Index:UK Traffic Signs Manual - Chapter 5 Road Markings. 2003 (Sixth Impression 2009).pdf[edit]

Loads OK in a PDF viewer, but for some reason Wikimedias own viewer and Proofread page hate it's format, and the OCR text layer is weired.

Is someone willing to check the PDF for something obvious? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:41, 16 May 2015 (UTC)