Author talk:John Stuart Hay

Searches have been undertaken to determine the dates of life. Birth registration, and 1881, 1891 & 1901 census records identified. No death identified. Did not attend Cambridge, and sources available do not cover correct period for Oxford. Searches of the The Times do not readily identify anything of use. Search parked. billinghurst (talk) 22:35, 4 January 2010 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: May have been misidentified. A Lancashire John Stuart Hay born 1875 is said to have been a shipowner.[1] A Scottish John Stuart Hay was born 1881 in Anstruther Easter, Fife. This JSH is likely the Oxford man who comes up in the Oxford Calendar for 1902 (Google Books snippet [2] as 1899, Hay, John Stuart). Likely "the Rev. John Stuart Hay, Assistant Priest at Cheyne-row" from The Tablet in 1904.[3]. The author is elsewhere said to be an Oxford don. Charles Matthews (talk) 05:47, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Ordination of a Catholic priest of this name in 1904 is just about visible (snippet, [4] in the The Catholic Directory, Ecclesiastical Register and Almanac (1905). Charles Matthews (talk) 06:06, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Looks like that John Stuart Hay wavered about being a Catholic: http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/95e4de7f-42fd-4ac6-8d6a-bb9db67886a5. That is 1912, the book was 1911, so there could be a story. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:10, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

@Charles Matthews: That is a baptism and the father is the shipowner. Below you will see the 1911 census which confirms the date of birth and occupation and I would agree that he oscillates between CoE and RC. It isn't the Scottish birth who does not appear to have an advanced education. [Good to have the 1911 census now available]. I will dig some more to see what else has eventuated in terms of sources now that we have some more. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:09, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

After reviewing all the data, I would say that my preferred YoB is 1875, and the CoE curate/RC priest is the author, and we have no date of death (still). I don't believe that the person entered the military subsequently. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:28, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

J. Stuart Hay

Ah, if he went by the shortened name, we get some more. Someone of that name was hanging around with T. E. Hulme in 1909.[5] Promising. The "Modernist Journals Project" turns up hits such as this one for "The Greatness of Caesar (Hay, J. Stuart.): 430-430" writing in The New Age in 1910. Our man.

Also a Captain J. Stuart Hay was in the British Ministry of Information in 1918.[6]

The Oxford college is St. John's, as is seen in the title page of the book. Charles Matthews (talk) 06:30, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

According to Amazon

"John Stuart Hay (1875-1949), an Oxford graduate and clergyman who later sold antiques in Athens" according to blurb at [7]. I don't see that the dates are to be trusted, but Athens sounds possible. I don't have library access to the book. Charles Matthews (talk) 07:59, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

There is plenty about John Stuart Hay in James Knox's biography of Robert Byron, it turns out. This takes us up to 1927 anyway. He is also mentioned by Patrick Leigh Fermor.[8] He did use the title Captain (The Annual of the British School at Athens 1933). So the death date is not looking so bad, and research might support it. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:57, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

JSTOR has 1927 references, but nothing else. If he died in 1949 it wasn't recorded in the Registry's deaths of that year. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:23, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Army service and the "Hay plan"

This is all ramifying somewhat. There are three John Stuart Hays on forces-war-records.co.uk ([9])

• John Stuart Hay 826593 Quartermaster Serjeant 1918 Royal Field Artillery
• John Stuart Hay Temporary Lieutenant 1918 Special List
• John Stuart Hay Temporary Lieutenant 1918 Special List

The first one is probably not this one, for reason of age (http://www.everymanremembered.org/profiles/soldier/576119/ says he died aged 24 in 1918, which is a very plausible match). The other two (one?) would fit with the Captain John Stuart Hay in what was a propaganda unit. The latter was involved in the "Hay plan": a Catholic, he was involved with Cardinals Logue and Amette in an effort of increase recruitment in Ireland. This effort is quite well documented, though it foundered.

With a birth date 1881 Hay would probably have been in the army. Without the paid access I can't do much more with that site.

The Captain John Stuart Hay mentioned in dispatches [10] might well be the artillery man. Charles Matthews (talk) 08:27, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

1911 England census

• occupation shown as clerk and telegraphist in post office

Name: John Stuart Hay
Birth: abt 1882 - Anstruther, Fife, Scotland
Residence: 2 Apr 1911 - Moreton and Saughall-Massey, Cheshire, England

• Source Citation: Class: RG14; Piece: 1198, Enumeration District : 02

Clergyman (established church)
Residence: 2 Apr 1911 - St Andrew Holborn above the Bars and St George the Martyr, London, England

Name: John Stuart Hay
Birth: abt 1876 - Seaforth, Lancashire, England

1900 England census

• Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 2816; Folio: 173; Page: 1

Name: John Stuart Hay
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876
Relation to Head: Assistant Master
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Seaforth, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Edgbaston
Ecclesiastical parish: Edgbaston St George
County/Island: Warwickshire
Occupation: Assistant Master
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Edgbaston
ED, institution, or vessel: The Oratory
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 2816
Folio: 173
Page Number: 1
Household schedule number: 1

Warwickshire > Edgbaston > District The Oratory

Birth

• FreeBMD

Births Dec 1875
HAY John Stuart W. Derby 8b 481

Crockford's Clerical Directory

No evidence in 1908 or 1932 editions — billinghurst sDrewth 12:20, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Death

Nothing jumps out as the death, though there is

Stuart Hay 	abt 1875 	Jun 1960 	Wycombe 	Buckinghamshire

John Stuart-Hay, 51 Spefsippou Street, Athens died on 26 April 1949 [Will proved, London 1952: Effects in UK £628.3/3d to his brother, Brigadier Ronald Bruce Hay]- Julian Putkowski