User talk:Cowardly Lion

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Hello, Cowardly Lion, welcome to Wikisource! Thanks for your interest in the project; we hope you'll enjoy the community and your work here. If you need help, see our help pages (especially Adding texts and Wikisource's style guide). You can discuss or ask questions from the community in general at the Scriptorium. The Community Portal lists tasks you can help with if you wish. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page.

You're doing great work thusfar, let me know if you need any help! Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Winston Churchill 22:28, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. I'll drop you a line if I need any help. Cowardly Lion 23:18, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Middlemarch is looking good. I prefer to keep the categories at the top, near the header, but you are free to add them anywhere. We dont have rules about those sort of things.

Could you edit Talk:Middlemarch to record the source that you are using, and if possible, the edition of the physical book that is being contributed.

Also, when you have time could you edit Cowardly Lion, mentioning any other Wikimedia projects you are heavily involved in, any foreign languages you understand, and what types of works you are interested in. John Vandenberg 01:09, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Done. Cowardly Lion 01:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


It's always a good idea to check the page history, to make sure they weren't vandalising a legitimate text first, then add {{sdelete}} to the page, and an admin will delete it (typically within 24 hours). It may also be wise to check the other "contributions" by the vandalising user, and see if they've done the same to other texts. Thanks for the heads-up! Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Abu Hamid al-Ghazālī 21:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. I'll keep all that in mind for the future. Cowardly Lion 22:29, 16 December 2007 (UTC)


Due to a recent change in the Wiki set up, normal users are now being given access to the "patrol" functionality. You can read more about it here Wikisource:Scriptorium#Patrolling by non-admins. John Vandenberg 19:07, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for telling me about that page. I've taken my other questions there. Cowardly Lion 20:26, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


Thank you for your congrats. I've noticed your work when I click on Recent changes and I see that you are doing much to help out here. Glad to have you on board. Let me know if I can help. Take care, FloNight 11:14, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


Fielding opinions on splitting Wikisource:United States into separate sub-indices for the individual states. If we google/search, we can find four or five existing WS works for each state, and can then link to offsite PD texts for each one as well. The United States is fairly unique in its citizens having a great deal of patriotism to their individual state - thus a new member from Texas is more likely to contribute to Wikisource:Texas than they are to help with Wikisource:United States. Thoughts? Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Arthur Schopenhauer 06:00, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Slavedriver is such a harsh term, I prefer "very motivating man with a whip". In reality, basically it comes down to a question of whether I'm the one who welcomes you to WS when you first join - if I do, you're automatically "stalked" on my watchlist and I see the improvements you do - and thus can tailor my "hints" and suggestions to fit active people who seem to have niche interests. :) Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Haile Selassie 20:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
Beware Sherurcij's whip! Oh, I mean, his effective motivational techniques. Face-grin.svgQuadell (talk/swapmeet) 15:49, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Very Well[edit]

I understand.--Angel of the Lord 02:19, 29 December 2007 (UTC)


Thanks for helping with patrolling; I see you are catching some problems already.

Tight-lacing does need a header, so I have tagged it. Pages in the "Page:" namespace dont have headers, and we dont have any established style guidelines for "Index:" pages like Index:Tight-lacing.

I have drafted a help page for patrolling: Help:Patrolling. John Vandenberg 07:21, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

a diff to check[edit]

Hi, what do you think of this diff ? John Vandenberg 23:50, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmm, I've never seen "desolate place", with definite or indefinite article. The page The Tragedy of Macbeth seems to have started off with "an open place", but that was changed to "an desert place" by an anon in February 2006. (I've never seen that either.) That was changed a year later by another anon to "an desolate place". I don't claim to be such an expert as to be able to state categorically that there are no sources which have "desert" or "desolate", but my copy of The Norton Shakespeare (1997) states that the First Folio is the only authoritative source, and that the Norton Shakespeare is consequently based on it. It further states that scholars generally agree that the version in the First Folio was based on a promptbook. The Norton Shakespeare gives "Location: An open place" as a footnote to Act One, Scene One. Interestingly, the version in the First Folio (you can see my photo here) doesn't give any kind of location — desert, desolate, or open, even if you blow up the photo! Also, The Norton Shakespeare has a "Textual Variants" section at the end of each play, listing differences between sources, and it says nothing about any other versions that might have "desert" or "desolate". I've changed it to "open". Cowardly Lion 00:41, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Lovely. John Vandenberg 01:46, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

another to be checked. John Vandenberg 08:21, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I reverted that one. The extract that was added had just been copied and pasted from another section in the same play. The list of characters was modified, but as long as the characters are all named correctly, I don't think that really matters. The earliest source for Twelfth Night is the First Folio, which doesn't have a Dramatis personae. I think later editions just added a list of characters to the beginning of the plays, so there are generally variations; some might say "uncle", while others say "kinsman". Some editions list the characters in order of appearance; older editions seem to list the men first and then the women. I tidied the list up a bit, and didn't bother about sticking to any particular version, since there is no "authentic" one. Cowardly Lion 02:46, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

For future reference[edit]

Just so you don't have to hunt it down in the future, you're looking for {{translation license|original={{PD-old-70}}|translation={{PD-1923}}}} Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Wikisource:Sheet music 18:05, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. It can be annoying when I need something and I know I've come across it somewhere but can't remember where! Cowardly Lion 21:19, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Admin nomination[edit]

Hi, my apologies if you are not interested, but since it is getting too easy, I have nominated you for adminship to give you a new set of problems to wrap your head around: Wikisource:Administrators#Cowardly Lion. Thanks for your prolonged efforts keeping those dastardly red exclamation marks at bay.

Simply decline the request if you dont wish to take this on at this time. Cheers, John Vandenberg 15:58, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Well thank you! It's probably too soon, but I've accepted since it won't upset me if it's unsuccessful, and I can try again later if people think I should wait. As for those annoying red exclamation marks, since the worst offender, who used to produce hundreds within a few hours, has now, thankfully, been promoted and won't be able to produce any more, I may have time to import more texts here instead of patrolling so much! Cowardly Lion 17:48, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


Original Barnstar.png

For your terrific work on Beatrix Potter books (and others), I award you this shiny new barnstar. Keep up the good work! —Quadell (talk / swapmeet) 15:37, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. That's very kind. I intend to continue with the other Beatrix Potter books, though I'm a bit busy this week, and it may have to wait until next week. Hopefully when I get more time I'll be able to join in with the proofreading as well. It's a great idea. Cowardly Lion 01:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


A knowledgeable/experienced wiktionary user has responded to my query about Old/Middle English. It sounds like we should concentrate on Old English works, in order to work in an area that interests him while we learn a little and build up the word list. John Vandenberg (chat) 10:49, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for that. I registered at Wiktionary a few weeks ago, but haven't contributed yet. I do think it's a great idea to be able to link to definitions of any obscure, archaic words, though I'm a little surprised that Anglo Saxon works are here rather than at Anglo Saxon Wikisource. I agree with Widsith in considering it to be a separate language, and feel there should at least be a Wikisource (or previously-published PD) modern English translation for works that are hosted here. Unfortunately, I can't volunteer for the job, though - my knowledge of Anglo Saxon is very limited. (I've altered the link to Widsith's response, as it was to the most current version of your talk page, so is no longer valid.) Cowardly Lion 01:33, 23 January 2008 (UTC)


You have been appointed :)--BirgitteSB 17:58, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, and thanks to everyone who supported me! Cowardly Lion 23:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Congrats. Now, for some easy work to get started on, Category:Orphan media contains images that are not in use.

Most of them are mathematics symbols that have been replaced with "wiki-maths"; the diffs are this and that. These have been checked; all you need to do is hit the delete button at the top of each image, and write a blurb to say why you are deleting them.

Image:Days of War Nights of Love title page.jpg of Days of War, Nights of Love doesnt have a license and it is an artistic photograph due to the funky positioning, etc; it has been discussed in two locations: Special:Whatlinkshere/Image:Days_of_War_Nights_of_Love_title_page.jpg. You may want to chat with the uploader about it, but it's not been in use so there is little damage done by deleting it. John Vandenberg (chat) 00:18, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Category:Deletion_requests has 3 images in it; none of them should be there as far as I can tell.

  1. This tells me that it was actually supposed to be an "author requested" speedy deletion. It can be deleted.
  2. This is someone who hates the work in question, and tried to make us delete the work and the image. (a typical book burner :-)) The deletion tag should be removed.
  3. This is Yann (talkcontribs) trying to tell the uploader that the image should have been uploaded to commons. The image is in use, so the deletion tag should be removed.

John Vandenberg (chat) 00:37, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The deleted pages of each user can be viewed, like so: Special:DeletedContributions/PaulinSaudi. Most of them have very good reasons to stay deleted, and need to be discussed before they can be undeleted, but I have found one that can be safely undeleted for you to get the idea of how things work. In PaulinSaudi's list you will see "To One In Paradise", which is a duplicate of To One in Paradise. If you click the restore button, you will be taken to Special:Undelete/To_One_In_Paradise. Note that WS:CSD doesn't consider "all-first-letter capitals" to be an unneeded redirect. So you can type in a restore message of "all-first-letter capitals page name" and click Restore, and then replace the page contents with "#REDIRECT To One in Paradise". John Vandenberg (chat) 01:01, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandals often hit the wiki at the strangest times, when none of us are looking, and run rampant for a few minutes until an admin is able to block them. If you are the first to spot it, it will be handy for you to have seen how to do it. So, over on Wikipedia there is a nasty person abusing someone else, see w:Special:Contributions/, and it wont hurt to block them here. If you want to practise blocking, you can go to Special:Blockip and type in "" as the IP Address or username, expiry "1 day", reason "harassment on other wikis", and click the Block button. Your block will then appear in Special:Log/block and on Recentchanges. John Vandenberg (chat) 01:12, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for all that, John. (Perhaps you should create a guide for administrators, so that in future you can just refer someone to the page!) I've deleted the three images in Category:Orphan media. I contacted the uploader of Image:Days of War Nights of Love title page.jpg at his talk page at Wikipedia, and he didn't have any objection to the deletion. I've also looked at some deleted pages, and went so far as to nearly block, though I didn't see any need to actually press the block button, since that IP hasn't edited here. I'm confident I'll be able to block quickly if needed in the future. Thanks again. Cowardly Lion 23:15, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


Happy to see you are an admin now. Have fun with your new tools. FloNight 20:48, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, and thanks for your support also. Sorry about the late reply. I've been a bit sick in the last few days, but am recovering now, and hoping to get started on The Tale of Jemima Puddle-Duck as soon as I feel up to it, to be followed by some more Elizabethan poetry. Cowardly Lion 22:21, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Uploading Military Records and Manuals[edit]

Hi. Belated thanks for the welcome. Bush's service records are maintained on this US Department of Defense site in a collection of PDF files. Referencing individual records is not very convenient since they are not at all in good order in the PDFs. Recently two of the PDF files went bad or disappeared, but fortunately I had copies of them. That made me think about an old idea of mine to extract all the records as image files and then upload them to Wikipedia Commons for better reference in regards to the Bush related Wikipedia articles. I inquired about doing this over at the Commons Licensing Talk page here and while I was told that would be OK, it was suggested that Wikisource would be more appropriate. What do you think? Or should I post this to some discussion page instead?

Also the records also reference long out of print military manuals that apparently can be currently found online at only one place, here. I think another copy of these should be kept in some Wikipedia connected archive as well. Your thoughts? Thanks in advance for any help. -BC aka Callmebc 00:32, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Could you please explain more fully?[edit]

Could you please explain more fully this edit?

Durbin is a Senator.

Work written by employees of the US Federal Government, in performance of their duties, is in the public domain. As a Senator Durbin is an employee opf the US Federal Government. His letter to Mukasey was in performance of his duties. So, why don't you consider this letter to be in the public domain?

Cheers! Geo Swan 03:26, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, the {{no licence}} template doesn't mean that a work isn't in the public domain; it just means that nobody has yet added the correct template to say what the copyright status of the work is — whether it's in the public domain, whether it's available under GFDL, whether it's a fully copyrighted work which will have to be deleted, etc. I'm more into poetry, drama, and novels than into US Government documents, or else I'd have added the correct template myself when I saw that it was missing. I see that Sherucij has now done so, so I don't think there's anything for you to worry about. Cheers. Cowardly Lion 09:31, 15 February 2008 (UTC)


Thanks for patrolling all those pages! John Vandenberg (chat) 02:12, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

And thank you for ensuring that nobody has to patrol my edits anymore! Cowardly Lion 13:11, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Ceyockey responder[edit]

Thank you for your comments; I will undertake revisions as suggested. (a quick note to indicate that I am not ignoring you). --Ceyockey 01:17, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I have moved images to Commons and added a see-also cross reference to WS:IG. --Ceyockey 11:02, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your message: Simpler policies needed: e.g. for translations[edit]

Thanks for your 'welcome' message.

I had the idea to give one of my translations to wikisource after I noticed a couple of indications that a translation of the original (non-copyright) text is wanted for wikipedia and wikisource. I happened to translate it myself a little while ago, for my private research purposes. But what I read about the copyright policies here makes me feel deterred from posting it here, even though the only copyright is my translator's copyright, and I don't want to reserve anything for any material gain.

The requirements are too complicated and rigid: the GFDL is probably good for its purposes, but the guys that drafted it didn't seem to think about scholarly translations, where an important aim is fidelity to the source-language original. They did not seem to make provision for what are sometimes called 'moral rights', the right of the author not to have modifications passed off in certain ways (for example). These have legitimate application to scholarly translations, in that it ought to be acceptable to express, in a licence of such a work, a condition that people who amend such a translation should indicate what they have amended, and briefly note how it is an improvement as a translation of the source text. But on wikisource, unless I'm mistaken (which is entirely possible I guess, in such a labyrinth), an expression of this intent seems to be forbidden by policy. I suggest this would be regrettable, leading to waste of opportunities to acquire texts that wikisource and wikiedia seem to say are wanted. Terry0051 21:05, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Collaboration project[edit]

This weeks collaboration project is G. W. Bush. Please take the time this week to identify and/or transcribe one important work by, or involving, this very prominent person who is relevant to us all. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:35, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Shakespeare edition query[edit]

See WS:S#Shakespeare edition John Vandenberg (chat) 23:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)