User talk:Tcr25

Welcome to Wikisource

Hello, Tcr25, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Help pages, especially for proofreading
• Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource
• Style guide
• Inclusion policy
• Wikisource:For Wikipedians

You may be interested in participating in

• Proofread of the Month
• Monthly Challenge
• Requested texts

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{Collaboration/MC}} to your page for current Wikisource projects.

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• Wikisource:Scriptorium; or
• Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:53, 7 May 2021 (UTC)

Understanding protocols

{{helpme}} Thanks for the welcome Beeswaxcandle (talk • contribs). I've gone through the tutorial, but I'm either missing some of the terminology or just unclear on the steps. I've brought over a work from Wikicommons (Index:Remarks of Hon. J.E. Bouligny, on the secession of Louisiana (IA remarksofhonjebo00boul 0).pdf), cleaned up the pages and proofread. It still needs to validate by another reader, but at this point do I create an author page? A work page? Just sit tight until it's validated? Tcr25 (talk) 01:04, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

The author page can be created at any stage in the process. I usually do it after I've sorted out the Index: page. Once you've done the best you can with a work, then it should be "transcluded". We don't wait until validation to do that. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:24, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! I think I have everything transcluded properly. I created Author:John Edward Bouligny and the work page (Remarks of Hon. J. E. Bouligny, on the Secession of Louisiana) and cleaned up the typesetting/formatting on the page. I'm not clear if categories go on the mainspace page or the index (right now I have them on the mainspace page). I have the author page linked to the Wikidata item, but I guess it takes time for the authority control to populate. Any guidance or corrections would be appreciated. Tcr25 (talk) 14:26, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

All looks good to me. Categories do indeed go on the mainspace page. I look forward to seeing your next contribution. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:58, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

The Story of the Golden Fleece

All works hosted on Wikisource must display the license under which they may be hosted here. All works should have three things: (1) header (which you provided); (2) source (in this case, the scan), and (3) a license template. I have added the license to this work, but please remember this requirement in future. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:41, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! I appreciate the heads up. —Tcr25 (talk) 18:42, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

@Tcr25 Thanks for adding the Story of the Golden Fleece. However, was there a reason you did not transclude the chapters on individual pages, e.g. The Story of the Golden Fleece/Chapter 1 etc.? Generally, transcluding each chapter separately is preferred. I am happy to make the required changes if there is no reason to the contrary. Thanks, TeysaKarlov (talk) 20:54, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, @TeysaKarlov. I wasn't aware that it was preferred to put the chapters on subpages for shorter books. It simply wasn't on my radar. Please feel free to do so, if you'd like to. —Tcr25 (talk) 20:57, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Tcr25. Thanks for the quick reply. I have transcluded the chapters separately now. If you would prefer a different style for the headers (e.g. with section titles), feel free to adjust; I usually prefer something plain. Thanks again, TeysaKarlov (talk) 21:04, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm fine with plain. —Tcr25 (talk) 21:05, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

hws/hwe

I notice you've been adding hws/hwe templates to pages I've proofread. In general these templates should no longer be used except for special cases (see the template's documentation); the system can join hyphenated words automatically. Arcorann (talk) 00:38, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, I had not known that. Thanks. Tcr25 (talk) 00:44, 9 August 2024 (UTC)

New texts

Did you spot the note when editing the Template that you should "[t]ry not to have two texts by the same author on this template at the same time, thanks"? You have listed two works by the same author back, and we try to avoid having two works by the same author listed at the same time. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:09, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't notice that. —Tcr25 (talk) 17:13, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Reasons Why We are Galilean Fisherman still has a problematic page, which is not proofread, and that page has not been transcluded either. So the work is neither fully proofread nor fully transcluded. We don't list works with problematic pages or that have content that needs to be transcluded that isn't. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:35, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

EncycloPetey, Thanks, I was debating whether to do the cover as an image or wiki since it is almost completely duplicates the title page. It's there now (and proofread), but I don't think it adds anything to transclude the page. Is there a policy or preference in situations like this? —Tcr25 (talk) 04:39, 12 September 2024 (UTC)

Roman numerals in subpages

Hi, by convention we don't use Roman numerals in subpage titles. See Help:Subpages for more detail. The reason for doing so is that it makes for consistent linking. Best, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:58, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, @Beeswaxcandle. I've gone back and moved the pages and corrected the TOC. —Tcr25 (talk) 21:09, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Auth. control

The IDs from various databases should be added at Wikidata; we no longer manage those database IDs locally. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:30, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, so each edition should end up with its own Wikidata entry? —Tcr25 (talk) 20:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Correct. There will be a primary Wikidata item for the work, but also separate Wikidata items for each edition published. Database identifiers for the work are added to the work data item; and identifiers for particular editions are placed on the corresponding data item for that edition. That way, editions published in different cities, by different publishers, in different years, and other differing data, can have their own data recorded. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:48, 20 September 2024 (UTC)

Confessions of an English Hachish-Eater

Thanks for adding this work. I note that you marked this with the template PD-old - that indicates that the author died more than 100 years ago. Do you know that as a fact ? Is there any indication as to who the author was ? -- Beardo (talk) 14:29, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

I haven't found any indication as to the author's identity. There's none listed in the book or the publisher's catalogue (at least in versions I've seen). Worldcat and the Library of Congress's entries for it also credit only the publisher; no author. It was published in 1884, which makes it PD in the United States even though it was published in the UK. On Commons, there is PD-old-assumed for works published more than 120 years prior with an unknown author; PD-old seemed the closest to use here. If there is a better PD license to apply, I'd welcome it. —Tcr25 (talk) 14:41, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

There is one source I've found that considers William Laird Clowes (d. 1905) as the likely author, but it's not enough for me to definitively link him to the work. —Tcr25 (talk) 14:45, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

I don't know about commons. But here, the suitable license is {{PD-anon-US}} - I have put that. --

Beardo (talk) 14:54, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, the "US" in that kept me from thinking it was the right license. —Tcr25 (talk) Tcr25 (talk) 15:00, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Wikisource is primarily concerned with the US position. This is different from Commons, which is concerned with both the US and the home country position. -- Beardo (talk) 16:51, 5 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thank you so much for stepping in to do the All Around the Bay of Passamaquoddy; I'm still so new and slow with all of this, often just copy/pasting code I find from another book into the code for a new book and changing the necessary words. Much thanks Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 03:11, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks for getting it started! Looking at other books is a good way to get an idea of how to do things; you can also get more context and direction from WS:HELP. Or just ask! —Tcr25 (talk) 12:25, 15 February 2025 (UTC)

Looking at Index:History of islands & islets in the Bay of Fundy, Charlotte County, New Brunswick; (IA historyofislands00lori).pdf right now; think I got the page list kinda done, saw the page list "button" that allows you to go page-by-page through the opening but it doesn't seem to have a "set this as page number one, page number two" type button, just img/cover/null/?. Also isn't there some button somewhere that allows me to see a thumbnail of all 100 pages on-screen at once so I can quickly identify which pages have photographs or similar? Figured out how to list a TOC at least. Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 18:11, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I'm not aware of something that lets you see all the thumbnails at once; I usually use Adobe Acrobat to see that. With the "Open in WS Page Game" feature, for page numbers, you just type in the "Page number" box your 1 (or 7 or whatever) when you find that page. It then throws you to the of the work and you start going backwards through things. Then just type in last page number when you reach it. If the number of pages between the first numbered one and the last numbered one align, then it says you're done. Otherwise it keeps going backwards for you to label pages. Sometimes it's easier to just do the base bit, copy the pagelist the game creates and then manually go in and adjust the internal pages. —Tcr25 (talk) 19:30, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

I went ahead and updated the pagelist for you. Two quick things: Bookplates (like on page 2) aren't transcribed; you had a nested pagelist happening, so not all of the pages were being shown/seen. You can see here the changes made. —Tcr25 (talk) 19:41, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

For formatting the table of contents look at {{TOC begin}}. The documentation there can guide you in achieving the proper table formatting. —Tcr25 (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, still looking at Index:History of islands & islets in the Bay of Fundy, Charlotte County, New Brunswick; (IA historyofislands00lori).pdf - I think I got the hang of labelling things in the page list, that TOC page still confuses the heck out of me, and I think I got the hang of RH and LH from your example as well...but surely there's an automated process to put RH and LH with successively increasing even/odd numbers on every page of a scan's Header-field quickly instead of manually doing this? How do you do things so quickly? Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 01:59, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

For the headers, look at {{rvh}}. You can place that template in the Header (or Footer) section of the Index page to prepopulate it. To get the page number in the header, use {{{pagenum}}} in the template. If the chapter name is in the header, you'll have to change the index for different sections, which usually isn't an issue if you are going in page order. The other option is to after you preview a finished page before publishing it, copy the header, then, after publishing, paste it in on the next page and manually advance the page number.

Looking at the Index for that file, I don't think I've seen the chapter names included in the pagelist before. That might be handy for knowing where you are in editing, but I don't know if others would find it to be irregular.

For the TOC page, do you mean the {{TOC begin}} and related templates? Or the TOC display on the Index page?

talk to you later,

Carter Tcr25 (talk) 14:29, 22 February 2025 (UTC)

Jumping back to the Islets index, would you be able to parse it so the main page is actually a link to separate chapters for each island (where I've marked the chapter heads in the Source File pagelist)? Also not sure if you know but a timesaving trick I learned is if you hit "No Text" as the proofread status of a blank page, you don't have to waste time deleting the " *(# BINAENUI#(PA NIE#" nonsense that OCR interprets creases and shadows as - setting it as No Text auto-deletes that. Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 15:51, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I usually focus on getting the Table of Contents done first (or before I start on too many pages), which lets me look at the page numbers for a chapter and then select it from the pagelist. The main page should follow the layout of the book, so you have the title page, copyright page, and other frontmatter in the order printed. The table of contents may go on that same frontmatter page, or it might be its own subpage (as each chapter should be in a longer work), depending upon the length of both the frontmatter and the TOC. Look at Thirty Poems as an example.

For cleaning up a bad OCR, two possibilities: 1) You can delete the OCR text and use the "Transcribe Text" button to get a (hopefully) cleaner text to work with; 2) you could try Google Lens's copy text feature to OCR the image text. Both require clean up and proofing, but they both seem to do a better job that Adobe's OCR on some old texts. —Tcr25 (talk) 15:59, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

I went ahead and formatted the TOC. It's different from most and the {{TOC begin}} family of templates isn't right for it. —Tcr25 (talk) 19:18, 24 February 2025 (UTC)

Any luck getting an Acadiensis 4? I know I'm way behind (my talk page is now a task list, lol) but I pick and choose and weave back and forth trying not to lose interest here :) Also, any easy way to copy the whole long link to say, Acadiensis/Volume 5/Number 2-3/An Affair of Honor, found on Page:Acadiensis Q5.djvu/7 if I were wanting to quickly copy/paste the wikicode to list each title on each author page as a link? Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 04:22, 6 August 2025 (UTC)

Eventually, I might. There's no advantage to rush something into an Index; I think it's better to just move through things as time and interest allows. If there's a specific article (or series of articles, which is what led me to working through a lot of issues of The New Brunswick Magazine), then follow that trail and get things added, proofed, and transcluded. But absent that we all are working the time and energy we can. As for quick copy/paste of wikicode: Sometimes I set up repetitive phrases in notepad so I can cut and paste from there, but other than that I don't think there's a shortcut. Sometimes it's quick to cut and paste a version of the longer string and then go back and change the title, volume, and number; that's the sort of approach I took with Gilbert Oscar Bent. —Tcr25 (talk) 11:14, 6 August 2025 (UTC)

Table of contents links

I think it is fair to say that any reader will expect a link in a table of contents to point to an item within the volume, and not to an external page. Clarification links can be placed in the header notes of the mainspace transclusion. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:51, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

I was thinking of it like an anthology, where an author's name is liked to their page outside of the current work, and something that is acceptable under both WS:Links and WS:ANN. —Tcr25 (talk) 20:09, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Help, lol

I may've just made my first big "oops", because looking at PD-Canada I'm not sure what rationale I was thinking when uploading Canadian Geographical Journal/Volume 22/Number 3/The Friendly Isles of Fundy - Unrenewed or somesuch but can't find a Canadian template for that. Any help with figuring out some more specific Canadian rationales? Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 15:17, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

Fundy Isles Historian - J, On Commons, the file has a basic PD-Canada template, but I don't think that's correct unless Royal Canadian Geographic Society publications are governed by Crown Copyright, which doesn't sound right to me. Since the author of that article only died in 1994, it's not likely to be PD in the U.S. until 2089. That said, if the magazine was legally published in the United States at that time, {{PD-US-defective notice}} or {{PD-US-no-renewal}} may apply. I'd recommend getting the license on Commons correct first and if that's not possible having it deleted there. Then we can fix or remove the related entries here. —Tcr25 (talk) 15:43, 28 May 2025 (UTC)

Yeah I was thinking there was a failure to renew in Canada I think, but not sure I see a template for that - bit confused, will dig more. Meantime I'm trying to upload the various "collections of the new brunswick historical society" files but stuck in queue on the ia-upload and hoped you might be able to help upload the other volumes and sort/name/link them - since they seem to contain quite a few articles I'd be invested in proofreading myself. Thanks, if so! Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 11:46, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure if there is a failure to renew under Canadian copyright law. In my experience that is a particularly byzantine U.S. thing, but it would apply if they at one point sought U.S. copyright and then failed to maintain it. At this point, I'm still working through Acadiensis and a few other things; if you're running into a queue issue, I'd suggest just slowing down on the uploads and spend some time working on what's already been uploaded. There's no scarcity of works that could be proofed/validated. —Tcr25 (talk) 11:56, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Yeah I've only uploaded two things most recently, being the Historical Collections and Acadiensis V5 Index:Acadiensis Q5.djvu though the "Pagelist Game" isn't loading for it to allow me to get a Pagelist started. And Index:Collections of NB Historical Society.djvu has an issue where it seems every second page is blank (book only printed on one-side seemingly) and (b) transcription oddly doesn't recognize that and tries to put the text on the blank page and declare the written page blank, oddly. Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 12:09, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

I've got the pagelist for Acadiensis Vol. V done. With a complicated one like that it's sometimes easiest to just open the PDF or DJVU file locally and type it out manually (at least for me). I'd hold off on getting too deep into that Collections of NB Historical Society. It would be better to fix the source file first (strip out the blank pages and get the OCR'd text on the correct page) and then bring it over to Wikisource. —Tcr25 (talk) 13:46, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

Don't suppose you know a tool to quickly one-click delete pages from a DJVU either before or after it's uploaded? Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk)

Not off the top of my head. The few times I've had to process files like that locally as a PDF (using Acrobat), run OCR (again with Acrobat) and then run it through an online PDF-to-DJVU converter. —Tcr25 (talk) 15:25, 31 May 2025 (UTC)

I see Acadiensis appears to be in full on Canadiana - https://www.canadiana.ca/search/?q0.0=acadiensis - though in different bundle types than were pulled off Archive.org, for those missing volumes. Only 8 volumes total before he stopped...then eighty years later it started back up, lol. Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk)

Yes! Those have been helpful in sourcing things like the two page missing from the Volume 5 file or alternate versions of the images that might be a little clearer. —Tcr25 (talk) 12:31, 2 June 2025 (UTC)

Page:Report on the Militia of New Brunswick.djvu/3, is there a tool/template/something so that I don't need to put (br/) after each word, so the center-template takes into account the paragraph-breaks? Same question on how to do (poem) stanzas Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 02:23, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

For a title page like that, you can use {{br}} for the returns, if the text is close to the preceding line. If it is double-spaced, the you can just leave a blank line between the bits of text. (The line break only pulls up when the text is on the immediately following line.

For poetry, look at {{ppoem}}, it's a really flexible template for managing poetry. There are a few quirks to it, but the documentation is pretty good at explaining how to get what you want. —Tcr25 (talk) 12:17, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Index status: Match and split

Hi, I've just been going through the category of Indexes waiting to be match and split and note that several that aren't suitable are tagged by you, so thought I'd drop a note of explanation. Match and Split is a process that can only be done when we have the text already in Mainspace. It's a way of bringing the text from the Mainspace into the Page: namespace. The criteria for suitability of the Mainspace text are at Help:Match and Split. I've re-tagged the status of those that aren't suitable. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:00, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Thanks, Beeswaxcandle. I thought I might be using that wrong, but clearly I didn't question myself hard enough. —Tcr25 (talk) 12:18, 6 June 2025 (UTC)

Main page / new texts

I see that you reduced the number of new texts back to 7. I have allowed it to go back to 8, and even then the featured texts is longer than the new texts when I look at it. Is there a difference in what we are seeing ? Or was the issue the work with a long title that is now off the main page anyway ? How does it look to you now ? -- Beardo (talk) 01:52, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

It looks too long to me, but I'm on a pretty wide (24") monitor. When I changed it, there were was a long title that was pushing things further down. I'm okay with how it looks now. Thanks, —Tcr25 (talk) 12:58, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

Index:Webster-Ashburton Treaty (1842).djvu

Hi Tcr25,

I appreciate the enthusiasm and willingness to help with Index:Webster-Ashburton Treaty (1842).djvu. Wikisource is fundamentally a collaborative project, so lifting together and helping eachother out is how we succeed.

But jumping in like that while someone is working on a text isn't a good idea. For one thing it means people step on one another's toes, like the multiple many edit conflicts I ran into because you had changed a page while I was proofreading it. For a lot of contributors it is also the case that they read the text as they proofread it, and then someone else stepping in is about as welcome as a stranger beside you insisting on summarizing the last chapter of the Clancy novel you're reading. If you want to help out with a given text it is much better to discuss first, to see what those already working on it want help with (if anything) and to coordinate and divide the work so you do not step on eachothers' toes or duplicate effort. As an example, for this text I would have preferred to finish proofreading and setting up formatting undisturbed, but once done with that having someone validate the text would have been very much appreciated.

I really don't want to discourage anyone who is willing to contribute to the project. Like I said, at the core Wikisource is a collaborative project; but effective collaboration requires communication and coordination so as not to waste effort and to keep contributors from stepping on eachothers' toes. So I hope you'll take this gentle chiding in the spirit in which it was meant. Xover (talk) 08:38, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

No problems, Xover. I totally get what you're saying. I ran into a similar issue with it when I was preparing the file to upload to Commons but then found that you'd already done that (which is why I posted the follow up to the original ask.) I was worried about stepping on you, but I never hit an edit conflict and I didn't realize we were working on it at the same point in time. —Tcr25 (talk) 13:33, 2 August 2025 (UTC)

Great news, I WELCOME intrusion into my projecss - right now Index:Report on Frye's Cailiff Island.pdf would love more hands! And I turned my talk-page into a to-do list! lol Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 01:22, 25 August 2025 (UTC)

Re: WS:PD#Translation:2024 Declaration of Martial Law in the Republic of Korea

Hi Tcr25,

Thank you so much for helping me out with this! Since you have more experience, I wanted to run a thought by you.

The deletion nomination for my translation highlights that WS:T’s scan-backed rule doesn’t cover original translations of born-digital texts like this one. A specific exception for this translation works, but I’m thinking a rule change to allow verifiable born-digital (and maybe other verifiable) sources might be the better long-term solution. See my new comment in WS:PD.

I'm not sure who, when, where, or how should one request a rule change, so any help or advice on that will be greatly appreciated.

Should I be the one proposing it? Maybe it's better if someone else does, I'm not experienced and I'd rather focus on my own contributions.

I also really hope deletion can be held off until a change or exception is made regarding the rules.

Please let me know if you propose a rule change.

(P.S. This is actually a transcript of a speech. If the transcript wasn't licensed, the original would probably have been deleted too, which is why I was wondering about it in WS:CV.) Reepy1 (talk) 16:07, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

I was wondering the best path forward for this. I wish a few others would weigh-in on this to see if they agree it is a gap in the policy or what was intended. The other option would be to print as a PDF the Korean article and upload that to scanback the ko.wikisource version. That would clear the problem here. I'm not comfortable editing in Korean to try going that route and creating an index at ko.wikisoure, but the KOGL Type 1 license shouldn't cause any issues at Commons. —Tcr25 (talk) 16:36, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Alien333 just replied, think we'll probably go towards changing the rule. I don't think we can just print as PDF anyway. I'll ask them how we should propose a rule change. Reepy1 (talk) 17:42, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

So long, thanks for all the fish, thanks for being a decent guy

Just wanted to thank you for having made my time here slightly less exasperationg; wish there were a dozen yous lol. Not fair if I rage-quit blaming bad users, but don't take the time to thank good users. Appreciate your efforts. Fundy Isles Historian - J (talk) 08:24, 6 September 2025 (UTC)

Sorry to see you go, though I understand you found it frustrating. Thanks for introducing me to Acadiensis and some other Maritime works I wasn't aware of. —Tcr25 (talk) 19:04, 7 September 2025 (UTC)

WS:PD

An edit you made, striking your vote on WS:PD, broke the formatting of multiple sections on the page, causing vote images to appear as template calls instead of displaying the images. I have undone that edit to correct the issue. Please use {{strikethrough}} for this, and do not include the colon within the template. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:18, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

So sorry. Thank you! —21:26, 8 September 2025 (UTC) Tcr25 (talk) 21:26, 8 September 2025 (UTC)

Myths and Legends of Our New Possessions and Protectorate

Can the {{incomplete}} tag be removed from this ? -- Beardo (talk) 14:49, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Done. Sorry for missing that... —Tcr25 (talk) 14:58, 17 February 2026 (UTC)

Index:Poems (IA poems00tuck).pdf

Hey there, passing by to fix some thing or other, I noticed that (I think?) there's a problem with the title sizes. Eg at Page:Poems (IA poems00tuck).pdf/193 if you zoom the "XV" is the same size as the capitals in the poem; and at Page:Poems (IA poems00tuck).pdf/74 they are noticeably smaller (typically {{tl|asc}/{{sm}} imo).

Oh and also, please don't use {{dhri}} in ppoem, there's no need. Ppoem makes double line breaks into proper stanza breaks which have the same visual output but better separate content (as-is your markup makes it one big stanza with blanks in it rather than multiple stanzas). — Alien  3
3 3 07:12, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

Thanks. I haven't tried putting a pixel ruler up against them, but I was styling the titles based upon how they looked to my eye with the titles larger and the others not noticeably smaller.

As for {{dhri}}, I got into the habit of using it because when I would have a poem set with a {fine} style the size would reset after a stanza break. {{dhri}} was what I was told would correct that issue. Is this a case where there are times when you should use {{tl}|dhri}} but in most instance you don't? thanks —Tcr25 (talk) 14:06, 15 March 2026 (UTC)

{fine} stuff is made to be stanza-specific. Circumventing it by making it all one stanza is quite a kludge.

If you need to put all poems in the book, put something like .ppoem-line { font-size:90% } in index CSS, rather.

If it's just one poem at a time, you can add the |class=ws-poem-fine parameter to the opening template, and when transcluded it will all be fine.

If you only want it for a few stanzas of the poem, one {fine} per stanza doesn't hurt too much.

So overall I'd say there's no good reason to use {{dhri}} as a stanza break. And even more so when just doing regular poems. — Alien  3
3 3 14:53, 15 March 2026 (UTC)