User talk:Inductiveload

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Phil Trans - Illuminated Initial - W.pngELCOME to my user talk page. Feel free to leave me a message if there is a problem or you would like my help, or anything else.

I am also active on Commons. If you would like help with a file I uploaded or would like me to make a file for you, please ask at my user talk page there. If the request is Wikisource-centred, ask here.

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Layout override[edit]


Is there some difference between layout_override.js and layout_override2.js in regards to performing a page purge or similar in its execution?

Override2 "seemed" to function as far as I was concerned in loading the selected layout for certain pages set up for that while behaving normal for the pages that weren't but the behavior stops performing flawlessly after a good session of viewing multiple pages.

I've noticed that if I cycle through a fair number of preset-for-a-default pages, "leave" for un-edited pages and later come back again to basically the same cycled set of pages, the behavior is gone and either goes right to Layout 1 if not visited earlier or the last Layout selected no matter if the page is preset or not. Neither hard or soft browser/cache refreshes bring up Layout 2 at that point either but a clock [gadget] purge forces it back to behave as designed - but for that page only. I would have to purge every page after that so that's why I ask if the old had a purge and the new(er) script does not or something along that line.

I could not repeat this under your first ( & still my preferred ;) override.js. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:51, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

That could be the cookies talking. On closer inspection of what the cookies are storing, I have found they also store the path of the current page. The cookie I set is set for the path of the parent of the page you are on. So, for example, Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar/134. Syntax of the Numerals having the default layout set would not affect A Tramp Abroad/VIII, and vice versa. This is an artefact of how cookies are manipulated in others' code, and is consistent with the existing settings for dynamic layouts (whether that is appropriate is another discussion, personally I think it is a reasonable approach in concept, but perhaps not very self-evident). Could your experience be caused by that? If not, more investigation is required, since something is coming unstuck somewhere. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:50, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
Well I've gone down a list of ticking settings on & off in every combination I could think of and sooner or later the expected behavior for pre-set pages degrades to acting like any other page. I've noticed that the farther down I go in subpages the less stable the intial behavior becomes. Could this duality of paths being stored have urls encoded one way (without an hex, binary, etc. characters if you follow me here) at first but, for whatever reason, later some of those characters get introduced into the URL path and "it" thinks its visting a completely different URL or something akin to a mis-match ? -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:14, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
Which work does this problem occur in? I can't see any works which have this applied on multiple levels except Wonderful Balloon Ascents, and that seems to work no matter how much I click around (note that if you set the layout from within Part 1, Part 2 will not be affected, as it is a different path). Also, does the the button to toggle it appear correctly, or is it just that the setting is insufficiently "sticky"? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 10:07, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Layouts + headers[edit]

Also, I'm wondering if you have the time if you'd take a look at my .css & .js - I've tried to "push" the common header "out" of being part the dynamic_layouts altogether. It seems to do the trick but I'm sure there is a more elegant way to utilize existing elements, ids or classes than introducing another div wrapper of sorts. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:51, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that is on my list to look at since other users have complained of the header begin "crushed" by the layout in Layout 2. This can be approached in two ways: either adjust the DL code at source, or move the header after the fact using local code. The former way would affect all wikis using DLs and the latter way would probably be doable by finding and moving the header HTML to before the DL container div, probably by using classes (not all the custom headers give a nice ID to glom on to). In the latter case, thought would also need to be given to things that come before headers like "similar" hatnotes and what-have-you. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:50, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
This all goes back to what I thought was a lame workaround at the time in wrapping the header in its own ID=headertemplate DIV just to get this dynamic stuff rolled out faster & with less objections. IMHO, a #contentSub3 DIV should have been created and the header template then loaded into it that if anything. The usrping (or rendering impotent?) of all the existing div wrappers in use prior to roll out was another 'nice touch'. So not only did the header become "crushed" under dynamic layouts, but so did auto generated wikiTOCs, reference/editor notes, copyright/license banners and similar footers when enabled. Those are what I call cracks in the foundation (of universal dynamic layout capability in the main namespace) btw. -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:36, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
Actually it's good practise and not at all lame to add IDs to unique elements on a page, so other scripts can find them later (and so the code is clear). Having said that a separate "id=metadata" div for header templates and such would be sensible too, as all the metadata can be handled together by CSS (I'll come to this). The fix is, on reflection, trivial:
This means that everything after the header template is stuck in the "text-wrap" div, but the header template is unmolested in the "contentSub" div. This breaks "Layout 3" since the header is no longer where it was expected, but tweaking the top and right values can fix that. However in Layout 3, any additional metadata (eg. {{similar}}) is not taken with the header, so it gets stuck to the top of the content instead. This is already happening. A solution to that is to add a little code in the PageNumbers.js to stick all the metadata code into a new div and manipulate that with the Layout styles. This would need to either be done globally, affecting all WSes, or forked and done locally. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:53, 14 September 2011 (UTC)
The other points to consider is that when you rely on contentSub and/or contentSub2, you inherit their CSS settings in chick.css or main.css - making the fonts and layout even worse than those imposed by the DL's alone. No, I'm afraid the creation of a contentSub3 DIV to "hold" the header template(s) would be the optimal solution as it would be independent of any current or future Wiki-wide use of the standard contentSub & contentSub2 divs. In addition, I think the current CSS needs to have the header portions expanded to include & set font-families and such so the DL's don't go re-formating the header text the same as found in their text container settings when applied. The same way the header needs to be independent of DL so too should their be a section at the end of the text content that's not affected by DLs if need be. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:57, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
As for the "cracks", I quite agree that the DL solution is not perfect, but these flaws are not fatal. I wasn't paying attention to this side of Wikisource at the time and I am only now able to take a peek into the code. The "cracks" are exactly what I am trying to sort out, since I have gripes with the Layout system too. As you can see, there are several disparate issues to resolve, including, but not limited to:
  • Headers & FOOTER-like banners stuck in the layout
  • Layouts not defaultable, should that be allowed?
  • Page numbers not easily inlineable
  • Layouts are not applicable to any work that is not transcluded, but if we change that, what about the pages we don't want to apply layouts to? Should you have to "opt-in" to them by transcluding a blank page, or opt-out by using a layout-killer template?
Some of these issues are one-liner fixes, some are more in-depth. However, they all are governed by the same code: PageNumbers.js, which is not hosted at enWS (though default layouts is a tack-on). If you can think of any others, feel free to tell me about them and I'll take a look-see. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 11:08, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Universal layouts[edit]

that reminds me - redirect pages should probably be excluded from all this if univeral is what is to come -- George Orwell III (talk) 10:39, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Well, no one intentionally lands on a raw redirect page except an editor wanting to make a change, so disabling layouts on redirects is not really useful, IMO. However, disabling on disambiguations or version pages probably would be a good idea, and if you do that, you may as well do the redirects too. That's not a difficult thing to do, as long as the relevant templates have IDs or classes to identify them as layout-killers (you could even do it with a central template, and be able to track pages). Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:53, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

PotM images may be of interest[edit]

Just to let you know that we have a number of images, and many look very GIMP-ready. winkbillinghurst sDrewth 11:56, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

You might have added that there are quite a few :-p. However, they look interesting and useful, and that would be a very nice image category, so we'll see! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:54, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Bulk mover[edit]


I finally got around to fixing-up a previously started .djvu Index: from last year and I am in need of that utility that moves Pages: by an offset value that you offered up a few weeks ago.

For Index:Title 3 CFR 2000 Compilation.djvu, I need all the currently existing Pages: moved down by (minus) 13. In other words...

all the way to the old end --> the last move being...

If you don't have the time, etc., please touch-back so I can make a formal Bot Request instead. Thank you for any attention in advance. George Orwell III (talk) 22:37, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

In progess, at a rate of about 6 pages per minute. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:53, 1 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done . For anyone interested, the script that did this is at User:Inductiveload/Scripts/Page shifter. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:28, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank You! everything reflects the updated djvu now. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:34, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Shake your 1.18 booty[edit]

Do we go back (after announcing) that we are ready to again trial the tools that were waiting for default load aspects, and with relative paths? — billinghurst sDrewth 06:18, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

The default gadget is now on by default for IP editors, not sure about people who haven't enabled it manually since I already set my setting to "off" and default only count if you haven't set it already. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:29, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

Bulk mover - Female Prose[edit]

Hey again,

Wanted to bring you and your excellent brain in on a recent request & discussion by ResidentScholar concerning a past PotM work, Female Prose Writers of America.

Long story short - turned out the initial DjVu file everyone jumped to complete was flawed. When compared to the same edition hosted on HathiTrust, it was determined 5 pages of text were completely missing and the double trailing blank pages per each portrait image page were also trimmed. This made what should have been 480 pages total into only 461 pages - making for 19 possible page insertions at various points throughout the work in order to restore it to the original 1852 published state.

Now I've already gone ahead and fixed-up the DjVu and uploaded it locally for comparison/testing purposes while I wait for ResidentScholar to come around again and let me know how he'd like to move forward with this. Basically, I wanted to bring you into the loop on the matter prior to his reply for your input/thoughts on how doable or realistic a bulk move with a 19 page staggering-offset-throughout-the-work is or should we drop the idea of restoring the double trailing blank pages per portrait image page completely and go with what amounts to just a 3 page staggered-offset move. TIA. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:48, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, the 3 page shift is easy-peasy. The staggered shift is harder, but certainly not impossible. I am happy to do either. In my opinion, the double blank pages are not that important, and I personally wouldn't bother, since they just get a "without text" rating and be ignored, but since they have been put in the DjVu, they may as well stay. Tell me when I can start, and I'll get on it. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:48, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't make the rules- I just try to follow them. If the card catalog, bibliographic data, etc. sez the damn book is 480 pages then we should have 480 pages (blank or otherwise).
Anyway, the replacement file is up and the pagelist now reflects the new condition. The first "run" is for existing djvu pages 363 to 462 to be moved +18 to the end (480). Then 2 blank pages need to be created before continuing to the next section and corrected offset. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:09, 10 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done Phew, that was a real pig. The WS servers have been crapping out every few page loads and the image caches refuse to be purged, so it's been a mission! It's all done now, however, it just needs the blanks filling in, and the mainspace "pages" tags renumbering. I have done from Elizabeth Wetherell to the end already. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:07, 12 October 2011 (UTC)


Hello, this is regarding the Manifesto of the w:Hindustan Socialist Republican Association that was supposedly distributed at the 1929 Lahore session of the Indian National Congress. (The text of the manifesto may be found at the following links:

I am not aware whether the original manifesto was in english or hindi or both.

The text at these links mentions two names, either or both of whom may be (considered) the authors of this text. They are named in the text as:

  • B.C.Vohra
  • Kartar Singh

Per this google books link(go to page 46), the full name of B.C.Vohra is Bhagwati Charan Vohra, who per this page of the Punjab Museums website, died on 28 May, 1930. And per page 6 of this pdf, the Kartar Singh named in the text happens to be w:Kartar Singh Sarabha who died on November 16, 1915.

Now, as far as my knowledge goes after a detailed IRC conversation with Doug, there are two possible cases for its copyright, with two subcases each.

Which Indian Copyright Law applies? Was it published in the US within 30 days of first publication? Copyright Status
Indian Copyright Act 1914 Yes  ???
No  ???
Indian Copyright Act 1957 Yes  ???
No  ???

Now, as far as I understand the Indian Copyright Act 1957(current official version, related rules, w:Copyright Law in India), since both (possible) authors died more than 60 years ago; this text should be in the public domain. In this, I'm assuming that the 1957 law applies instead of the 1914 Indian Copyright Act, which itself was a modified version of the British w:Copyright Act 1911(original text of the British law).

This leads me to the conclusion of the last case to be public domain in India. Also in this case, since the US applies the w:Rule of the shorter term, the text should also be public domain in the US. Hence the result:

Which Indian Copyright Law applies? Was it published in the US within 30 days of first publication? Copyright Status
Indian Copyright Act 1914 Yes  ???
No  ???
Indian Copyright Act 1957 Yes  ???
No Public Domain in India and US

Now, either we need to determine which case applies or resolve all 4 for possible results. If we are to do the (longer) latter process, I would like to add the following information to this:

  • The manifesto was probably never officially published in British India(since the organisation concerned was a revolutionary one, and probably banned or illegal). I may be wrong in assuming this. Also it might have been officially published for the first time after Indian independence(1947) posthumously. Alternately, it may have been officially published elsewhere(outside India) first.
  • I do not yet know of the 1914 Indian Copyright Act and whether it required registration(which is highly unlikely to have taken place considering the nature of the organisation). Also unknown to me are the effects of the w:Berne Convention, if the 1914 Act indeed applies(whether the convention restores/applies copyright to this text).

Also, all this began with w:hi:हिन्दुस्तान सोशलिस्ट रिपब्लिकन एसोसिएशन which includes text from the hindi link of the text given above. I'm adding a link at its talk page to this page for clarifications on copyright.

Lastly and most importantly, sorry for such a long message, and thanks for any help in advance.--Siddhartha Ghai (talk) 21:29, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

  • The reference to the rule of the shorter term is technically incorrect and was my fault for misleading Siddhartha Ghai. The relevant rule is that works that were out of copyright in their home country on the date the country acceded to Berne and GATT/URAA are in the public domain in the United States unless they were published in the United States and complied with all technicalities (normally, prior to their home country copyright expiring).--Doug.(talk contribs) 19:13, 10 October 2011 (UTC)


Do you know where I can find instructions for for adding pages to a djvu file with Djvulibre? I need to add place-holders for a couple of missing pages. Thanx in advance Misarxist (talk) 10:56, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

DjVuLibre Documentation:djvm - I recently used it for exactly this purpose: Bottom line the syntax is djvm -i $TARGET.djvu $PAGETOINSERT.djvu [pagenum] where "pagenum" = the page you want to insert the page before (thus it will become the page number of the inserted page).--Doug.(talk contribs) 11:15, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

volume error[edit]

Your recent upload File:The International Jew - Volume 2.djvu is actually volume 3. I would normally endeavour to resolve the problem myself, but facilitating the dissemination of this sort of material is potentially a criminal offence in Australia. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 01:38, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Are you sure? It appears to be Chapters 21–42, just as expected. Volume 3 is Chapter 43–61. What exactly do you see to be the problem? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:09, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
None since you fixed the source, did you not imagine that was the problem I saw? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 02:48, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Well, not since you didn't use the words "source" or "link". I thought you meant the file contents were swapped. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:51, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Guiding newcomers to the proofreading interface[edit]

I'm thinking about changing the output of {{small scan link}} from "scan index" to "scanned pages" in order to make it clearer for newcomers. See the Scriptorium discussion at: It is hard to find the proofreading interface. Any objections? Heyzeuss (talk) 20:54, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Of course not! Feel free to go ahead and change anything. Be WP:BOLD. Your idea is a good one to improve accessibility, which is very important. If you can think of any other ways to make anything clearer for newcomers, feel free to go ahead with them too. We old and crusty Wikisourcers often don't realise what new contributors find difficult, or what the best way to help them is. The best people to make it easy for newcomers are other newcomers! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 19:22, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

One problem I forgot to mention[edit]

Hi. There is one important issue which I completely forgot to mention yesterday on my talk page, regarding software update related issues, and that is the failure of the "sortable" tables.

I have a series of four sortable tables, each holding about 320 records Wikisource:WikiProject Popular Science Monthly/Authors A to D|STARTING WITH THIS TABLE. Regardless of whether the definitions of "wikitable" or "prettytable", the sort feature doesn't work properly. Meaning, that the first two columns sort only descending but not ascending, and the last three columns don't work at all. Until yesterday, even the arrow heads didn't show. This table helps me update authors on a volume by volume basis and is much needed. When you have the chance, could you please look at them? Thanks in advance. — Ineuw talk 22:14, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I think I see the problem, and I'm trying to fix it. What is happening is that the tablesorter's cache contains only the first column and the row number. When you sort by the first col, it sorts as you expect, when you sort by the second col it sorts by the original position of the row (which is already alphabetical, so there is the illusion of it working). If you sort by other columns, it breaks because the it doesn't have the data on hand. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:53, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
I'm an idiot. This problem was caused by the first non-header row has only one cell, so the code thinks the table has only one column, and therefore all other columns cannot be sorted. Adding class="sortbottom" to the first row ("A") just after the "|-" will sort the row to the bottom and allow it to work. Otherwise, inserting a row with the right number of cells above the "A" would do the trick too. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:57, 18 October 2011 (UTC)
Thank you with my gratitude!!! In biblical terms this would translate into a payment of 10 sheep, some goats (but not my daughter's hand). The shadow of suspicion about the first row did pass my already clouded mind, but since the arrows were also missing at first, I thought that it will be resolved by the higher powers without a special petition. :-) Take care. — Ineuw talk 02:36, 18 October 2011 (UTC)


There was a small trouble in the syntax of the match [1]Phe 10:04, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! That was a silly error! Perhaps the M&S header regex could be a bit more lax with spaces to guard against that? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 03:04, 25 October 2011 (UTC)

Graded German Readers[edit]

In case you didn't get my e-mail, now appears to be available. Please get it but parts of it may not be eligible for upload, so we need to talk about it to verify what parts are useable. Thanks.--Doug.(talk contribs) 06:24, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

←→ that-a-way brace with magic math?[edit]

Are you able to do any magic with math like you did with {{brace2}} though turned 90°? I need a downward pointing brace for Page:Problems of Empire.djvu/138. Thanks if you can. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:04, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

if math does not work, could be a possibility to adapt {{custom rule}} somehow to be used in tables and make the necessary image to resemble braces? --Mpaa (talk) 12:34, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
Horizontal braces are tricky, because the width is very variable, which tends to break up image segments. Custom rule will have a similar problem, but instead of being broken up, it will be too short to make the span. I am thinking of a better javascript-based (+SVG??) solution, but it might take me a while to work out. Feel to free to try alternative solutions while I fiddle, but I personally don't see great mileage in either solution (even for normal braces - it's currently a hack). Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:15, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Yep. Generally for our works we are working that can be stretched down the length, but not necessarily expanded in the width, the only difficulty with stetching the length is that the centre point can be deformed to wide and ugly. There is Commons:Category:Bracket segments however I am not in a jigsaw mood. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:09, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
Good timing. I've just finished a proof-of-concept Javascript that constructs an image of the the right size based on the cell the brace is in. Add User:Inductiveload/braces.js and then check out User:Inductiveload/Sandbox7.
Know issues are:
  1. Not sure about the browser compatibility, but it should be IE 8+ at least (which is better than SVG would be). Bloody IE.
  2. Sometimes width maths is broken because the addition of the image alters the table cell's width after the image is drawn, so there's a circular dependency
  3. Rendering in edit mode is probably broken
  4. It could be done by a div full of image segments as required, but I think that that is messy on the output side of things and also needs a lot of HTTP requests to commons which slows things down dreadfully on Commons.
Anyway, go and have a look and a play in that sandbox and , I'm heading off for now. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 05:27, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
The only proof for your concept is that it is too hard for this sparrow. I somehow got Inkscape to squish P/child's down SVG and it will do for my grade of work until someone invents something that I can use. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:13, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Must purge page to magnify page scan.[edit]

Hi. In normal page reading mode, in the Page: namespace, I am unable to magnify the page image (djvu), unless I reload the page (by Firefox), or purge by the use of the UTC clock gadget. Ctrl-F5 purge doesn't work either. This problem has been around for a very long time - maybe a year or longer. What changed now is that I am collecting data in preparation for proofreading, and I could really use this feature. I don't know if it's a cache problem? A Firefox problem, where I tried various cache sizes of 50, 100, 1,024MB, or elsewhere? I also unchecked the gadget but then I can't purge at all. Could you please shed a light on this problem? Many thanks. — Ineuw talk 07:20, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Do you mean when you are viewing a previously proofread page without editing it? In that case, I wasn't aware that you could zoom in - the image is just an image. If the problem is while you are in edit mode, then I am afraid I can't reproduce it - zooming appears to working for me by scrolling, by click-dragging a rectangle to zoom in on, as well as the toolbar buttons. I am using FF 7 on Linux for reference. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:17, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I used the wrong term as it was very late (or early). It's not zoom it's clicking once to enlarge and move the image about in view mode. (When in edit mode, everything works fine). After my post, I went through all my WS preferences and different settings and restarted FF after each change. I also tried FF with 0 cache and no browser page cache option in WS preferences but nothing helps. This leads me to the likelihood of a javascript issue. If you have any ideas, please let me know. Also, there is no hurry.— Ineuw talk 17:50, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
Ah, I see it now. I see part of the mechanism of how it should work, but I will need a closer look at it before I can say what is causing it. As you say, it is very likely a Javascript issue. I'll keep you posted as and when I find things out. Cheers, Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 18:07, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. :-) — Ineuw talk 19:08, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi. Just read in the scriptorium that v1.19 Beta is being released. Would this fix the problem discussed earlier in this post. or should I post a message in the link provided? — Ineuw talk 21:44, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Mediawiki upgrades are unlikely to fix it, but it could happen. The JS that appears to be failing is provided as a condensed block by the WS server along with a lot of others, so I have been unable to block it out and substitute a testing version, so I haven't managed to find a solution, and until I find out how to tweak this kind of JS, I won't be able to (though I am thinking of setting up a test wiki on my local machine to do this kind of testing on, so it could happen then). Sorry about that, Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:49, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
No problem. I can live with it. :-)— Ineuw talk 21:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

how to use query output into javascript[edit]

Hi. Following out talk on client-side, I would like to learn how the API output can be used in a javascript (not necessarily to solve that problem, but to learn how that could be done). I struggled but still did not manage to import the data. Could you give me a hint and just write down the (very few?) lines of code needed to get the query result into a javascript variable? Starting from there I can try to continue with my own legs. Thanks --Mpaa (talk) 22:32, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

Certainly. I'm not at a computer with a useable Javascript development environment at the moment, I expect I'll be back to it later today. Sorry for the delay. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 15:21, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. No hurry anyhow. BTW, what are you using as Javascript development environment? Bye --Mpaa (talk) 20:29, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
I use Firefox and Firebug. It's a simple combo, but sometimes like today I have only a locked-down computer with an old IE on it.
As for the JS used to process an API call to MediaWiki, if you have jQuery (which you will have on WMF sites) you use the getJSON function. The following code looks at a page, gets all the transcluded Page pages, and adds the title of each page to the top of the current HTML document with the first category that Page: page is in:
    function(data) {

        $.each(data['query']['pages'], function(i, item){
            $('body').prepend(item['title'] + ' is in ' + item['categories'][0]['title'] + '<br/>');
) can tell you the jQuery functions purposes better than I can. The API URL is constructed thusly:

  • - path to the WS API interface
  • action=query - we wish to run a query on the database
  • titles=Hudibras/Part%201/Canto%201 - title of the page you are interested in
  • generator=templates - we are looking for transcluded pages, which are equivalent to templates for this purpose
  • gtllimit=500 - template generator limit of 500, the maximum for a non-bot user. It is very unlikely that you will exceed this on a single mainspace page, but it is likely you will exceed it if you try to find all the page in an index
  • gtlnamespace=104 - template generator namespace = 104 = Page:
  • prop=categories - we are interested in the categories of the transcluded pages
  • cllimit=500 - category limit = 500, max, etc
  • format=json - return the data in JSON (JS data format), as opposed to XML
  • callback=? - this is needed to allow the program to receive the data and process it

I have used an anonymous functions to process the data to keep it all inline, you can use named functions to keep larger code in order. This is not the simplest JS in the world, but it is not too bad. Just keep building up from small blocks into larger ones. Hope that helps, Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:48, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks --Mpaa (talk) 17:45, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

PSM vol 43 and 47 bulk text moves[edit]

At this juncture, I can only offer my thanks for your efforts, since (in biblical context), I've already given away all my livestock, (but I am keeping Pippa). Thanks for all your help. Also, remaining truthful as always, this note of thanks is almost identical to the one I posted to GO III. The difference is, that there, I didn't mention Pippa. :-) — Ineuw talk 04:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

My mother taught me that is bad manners to take daughters in payment for service rendered, though she was (happily for me) silent on the matter of livestock. I also expect the lawmakers in my area might have frowned upon the transaction. Thus I think I have managed to obey the rules of my upbringing and of the state. You are quite welcome. If you need any more bot work, feel free to drop a note here or at WS:BOTR (which is now on my watchlist). Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

NARA bot issues[edit]

I'm going to try something novel and leave you a talk page message instead of bugging you on IRC. :-) Since the change to the image compression, I've been getting occasional errors during the conversion step which kills the bot: [2]. It appears to be repeatable (that is, the same files cause the error when retried), but I can't see any pattern in them. Any ideas? Dominic (talk) 18:19, 17 November 2011 (UTC) Solved!

I should probably write up my notes for the other features I've talked about. If you can find time for these, it would be great.
Multi-page support: the bot currently runs through a folder in order, generating file names based on the Toolserver output for each file. However, since a multi-page document means there are multiple files associated with the same ID, it just tries to upload them under the same name currently. The new functionality I envision is: On retrieving a file for upload from the designated folder, the script finds its ID and then scans the list for any other files with that same ID. If it finds none, it uploads like as it does currently, but if it finds others, then it uploads them each in sequence, with ", page X" appended to the file name. It also adds a gallery of the other pages using the "Other pages=" parameter.
File name correction: the bot currently does hash-based scans for duplicates (for TIFFs) and skips a file if it finds a duplicate. The bot currently has filemover status in order to correct some file names with are a result of (1) some pre-bot manual uploads, (2) some non-standard titles from early in the bot's development, (3) a lot of mistakes where one page of amulti-page document was uploaded as if it were a single page document, and it would have to be moved to the correct ", page X" name for the muti-page function above. For this to work, the script would have to still retrieve the metadata from the Toolserver after detecting a duplicate and scan for other pages based on the ID, then compare the expected file name with the real one, and then move it to the expected name if there is a difference. Since that involves loading another web page each time for a very specific task, it would be nice if this function could just be turned on with an optional argument, rather than being standard.
These are just the ramblings of a non-programmer, but hopefully the logic makes sense. No pressure, of course, I just realized that I've talked about this a couple of times before, but hadn't put it down clearly in writing. Dominic (talk) 19:42, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Must purge page to magnify page scan II . . . continued[edit]

Hi. Continuing my previous post of User_talk:Inductiveload#Must_purge page to magnify page scan, The curiosity to better understand, I am challenged by the mystery as to why this feature "jammed". I profess being largely ignorant of javascript and CSS, but thought that my observation may provide a clue to the problem. - Noticed that the text area on the left of the Page: namespace has been modified and made wider. I am not even sure that this is the case, but while struggling with a centered title being off, I noticed that the left and right margins are unequal (Page view). This was confirmed by the use of the Mioplanet pixel ruler gadget to verify my "educated" guess. P.S: This is absolutely NOT a burning issue. Just "picking" your brain. :-) — Ineuw talk 08:12, 23 November 2011 (UTC)


Thanks for putting up your scripts, and I will use your suggestion with AutoHotkey. Heyzeuss (talk) 12:14, 1 December 2011 (UTC)


Would you take a look at Wikisource:Proposed_deletions#Column_templates, any ideas on next steps towards closure? Jeepday (talk) 14:02, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Need another set of eyes[edit]

Hey again... Happy New Year !!!

I've lost my marbles on one of my side projects, the all-div based header replacement (Template:Header/dyn). I can't seem to reproduce the existing template's author_override function ( see Template:Header/testcases2 ), whch probably means the translator part won't work eeither if present. I've stared at my fabulous mess for ~2 days now (& used my Potus-eo variant as a guinea pig too) but I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. Can you take a look when you have some time to spare and work your magic? Thanks for your consideration on this in advance. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:14, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Fixed. It was caused by confused nesting of if-statements governed by related parameters. If you have {{#if:{{{foo|{{{bar}}}}}}|fire!}}, and you give {{{foo}}} (even if it is blank), bar will not be considered, and the result will be blank and not trigger the if statement. If you are just looking for the existence of {{{foo}}}, {{{bar}}} or both, then what you should do is {{#if:{{{foo|}}}{{{bar|}}}}}. Look at the second example on the testcases2 page where you have "| author = Confederate states | override_author = ". In the nested parameter case, the present-but-blank override parameter will be taken over the author parameter hidden inside it, which is only seen if the override parameter is not present at all.

I also cleared out a couple of #ifs where a parameter was tested inside another #if which tested the same thing, as these are redundant. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:58, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

You da man - thanks! After reviewing your edits I can see where my original approach went wrong. Still, its not exactly ready for prime time but it is a step closer to what I've been observing as taking hold on some of the other "popular" language sister WS sites. The 'Notes' bar issue remains looming; there is no neat way to present all the specialized parameters we have without a huge honkin' blank notes bar even when there is no text in there along with them. Other sites have turned to collapsing infoboxes or a navframe to achieve this. Still others have moved it down into the footer bar. I'll tinker some more when I get the time.

Anyway, thanks again for your help & feedback. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:57, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

It will put hairs on your chest ...[edit]

... or maybe it won't. From enWP we have a visitor starting Index:Cricket, by WG Grace.djvu as I mentioned in irc. It has a swathe of images of early Englishmen, and lots of ornate dropinitial chapter starters, and your skill with these is legendary (or something about leg ends). Anyway, if you have some time or looking for a good cause, the work is there. They have started with a Google copy, however, I found a better UToronto copy for image extraction and noted on the Index page. Thanks. <angel blinks> — billinghurst sDrewth 01:00, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Error messages in script for batch tiff-djvu conversion[edit]

I already made an entrance in the talk page for your script here : Universal_batch_image_to_DJVU_converter/Windows. Hope I don't impose too much :) Thanks N1of2 (talk) 07:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Unrecognised template[edit]

Hi. This is the first outcome of my code. Not bad but I am having an issue with unrecognised templates. Do you have any suggestion before I filter them out? Next step is cleaning up the code :-) --Mpaa (talk) 00:47, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

You've included the {{populate}} templates which aren't designed namespaces other than Author, Category and Portal. Get rid of them and you'll be fine! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:37, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Excuse my butting in with a comment. I like the result, except, do you think that the description is necessary? If you do, perhaps you can further indent it when it wraps to subsequent lines? — Ineuw talk 19:40, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi Ineuw, I think the description is nice, but I think we could consider putting some things which get lumped into the description, like collective work contributions, populate templates, etc., into a new "notes" field, as they don't need transcluding, and arguably don't really belong in the "description" field. What do you guys think? A bit of CSS can do the indentation. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 21:11, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
I agree that only a minimal description is required. For now if we leave the extraneous info, then we'll see what needs to be moved, e.g: works and templates. This issue is also somewhat related to adding WorldCat info to the template, which I am against and I will note it so in the Scriptorium. — Ineuw talk 21:23, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Second for the Worldcat thing, we have {{authority control}}. Why would we duplicate just one AC in the header? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:15, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Right now every selected field (e.g. description) is either "all in or out" (only templates are removed). From a preliminary screening we will soon realise that all sorts of info might be included in lastname and firstname, making the outcome of "first name, lastname" look strange (Sir, comte of, etc. etc.). Moreover, this combination is the dafaultsortkey if nothing else is specified, so it it quite important for sorting. I feel that the topic on how to add this info will deserve some discussion. Once I will have the outcome on more pages in will be more evident. As far as indentation, it is quite easy to directly insert it in the file generation. --Mpaa (talk) 22:18, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome[edit]

...and for the suggestions. The block center things makes sense to me. From what I've gathered, endnotes are to be treated the same as footnotes, right? So I'm going to leave the pages with notes marked as unproofed until the note pages are done, and copy them in afterwards. -- Jimregan (talk) 15:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Glad that makes sense. The split template concept can take a bit of getting used to. As for endnotes, it might be easiest to transclude them to the mainspace, and put in {{section}} markers for each note. Then you can link the number in the text to Konrad Wallenrod/Notes#n8, and so on. Since there are only a few notes, this is probably the least arduous option. Duplicating the content in the Page namespace often gets a bit fraught, as corrections need to be made in two places, and a passing editor might miss one or the other. For footnotes, we generally use <ref>Footnote text</ref> and a <references/> tag at the bottom, the same as Wikipedia (if you are familiar with that). Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:00, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Inductivebot move of poet laureates[edit]

On my recent changes I saw that Inductivebot had moved Author:John Dryden and Author:Edmund Spenser from Category:Poets laureate of England to Category:Poets laureate of the United Kingdom with the note "Poet laureates of England" has not been the title since 1707 - it is "PLo the United Kingdom" now". Both of these authors predate 1707, so were in fact in the correct category. Checking the UK category, this also applies to Author:Geoffrey Chaucer, Author:Ben Jonson, and Author:Nahum Tate. Calling these authors Poets lauriate of the UK is an anachronism.--T. Mazzei (talk) 16:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I was just tidying up as I created Portal:Poets Laureate of the United Kingdom, which lists all of them, England, Great Britain, and then UK (two, actually: Ireland and Northern Ireland). Some authors were just in "Poets laureate", so I put them all in the UK category to keep them all together, and some were not PLs of England (everyone post-1707, in fact, and Cecil Day-Lewis, while not categorised at that time, is Irish). Of course, we can have "of England" for the pre-1707 guys if you want, I'll move those over now. Would you prefer that to be a subcat of the UK one, or a top level one under "Poets laureate"? There are still a large handful not in any PL category, which I'll sort out. Do you think we should distinguish between GB and the two kinds of UK too? (edit: There is also versificator regis (what a title!) which was everyone up to John Kay, including Chaucer). Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:54, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
I think as a subcategory of UK would be best, but I also think this would be more fitting subject for a portal than for categories. That said, I personally would have a separate category for each title.--T. Mazzei (talk) 05:57, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

template:img float[edit]

Looking at Page:Natural History, Mollusca.djvu/227, the template needs a jiggle. My brain is too tired to fathom it. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:08, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

That's caused by the "center" and "smaller block" templates, which are div-based templates. If you insert a div, Mediawiki will helpfully insert some nice <p> tags and break up your paragraph. As far as I can tell there's no way around it except for not using divs in that template. Even a normal [[File:]] will break a paragraph. (edit) I have added a note and example at Template:Img float. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:46, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Still another set of eyes[edit]

Hello again... Hope this finds you & your's well !!!

Just want you to take a look at my latest attempt to eventually make the move(s) to all-div based headers (making dynamic layouts easier to co-exist/manipulate in the process). This revision leaves the green, table-based navigation header portion pretty much as is and concentrates on making the div-based change to the light-blue notes field (& all that can be found through it). See Template:Header/testcases for the most common situations the header may find itself in.

The testcases compare the current header to my last found, of course, in Template:Header/sandbox - which, in turn, calls my re-think to customized linkage now found in Template:Plain sister/sandbox plus a new conversion to div-based coding for WS:Shortcuts now found in Template:Shortcut/sandbox.

The reasoning for the bulk of the changes I wanted to make here was primarily to make some sort of standardization out of any notes text (when present) & blue notes field in general in the way it pads, indents, wraps, etc., itself no matter whatever else might be activated at the same time. Moving plain sister to a list-item scheme kept the amount of unwanted '3rd-div-breaking one thing or another...' within the notes section almost down to none.

Thanks in advance for any feedback here. No rush either (not a formally proposed change yet). -- George Orwell III (talk) 20:26, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

It all looks pretty good - div layouts are the "right" way to do it, but not as easy. One thing I did notice was the templates on the right "escaping" the notes section by overflowing over the line. Is this intended, or would you be looking to stop that? If the latter, the CSS "overflow" style might be of use. I like the edition notes encased in plain sister - that looks much neater. You could also consider putting the shortcut all on one line to save another line of space. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:20, 20 February 2012 (UTC)
Well I left the overlap over the line for now because after cycling through "random pages" for about a half an hour it seemed the average notes field would have one line of text (rather than a paragraph's worth) & a single box entry to Wikipedia - it just looked less clunky and the padding (1ex) shifts for the box only when present too. More often than not, the new line height value forces the bottom border to "split" the box part overlapping with the part not overlapping rather evenly (eye candy). Plus, I only have IE to test with so I'm leary of making more changes until I get some final feedback.
To put shortcut on one line within the box would be much better imho too. The problem is that it is used more often alone than with notes or headers than edition was so I opted to change the stand-alone for now. Both will need long BOT runs to convert the stand-alone templates into header parameters at any rate.
My only other unaddressed concern is how the text is padding from the various edges. I know alot of that depends on word-length & auto-wrapping but again, without other browsers to test under, I can't be sure though it looks fine to me. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:56, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Template with an issue[edit]


It was an attempt to have a list starting an arbitary start point, but it seems not to be working properly. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 13:05, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Is this for splitting over a page boundary? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 18:31, 26 February 2012 (UTC)

Custom vector.js toolbar problem[edit]

Hi. I posted a help request in the Scriptorium to correct an unusual problem which emerged about two days ago. The post also contains two of my uploaded screenshots of the problem. User:Mpaa was kind enough to spend an hour this afternoon to resolve it but we got nowhere. I was wondering if you could look at it to solve this mystery? The standard buttons separated by the custom toolbar buttons is very awkward to work with and slows down my proofreading. (At my age, one tends to hurry and finish what they started because one never knows). :-)— Ineuw talk 04:29, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Pennell's Our Philadelphia[edit]

Would it be too much to request an upload of Elizabeth Robins Pennell's Our Philadelphia? I own a copy, and I can scan the images (drawn by Mrs. Pennell's husband, Joseph) from my book to add to the work here at WS. The book gives a great historical picture (in word and image) of Philadelphia at the turn of the century, and I think it would be a nice addition to our stores... Thanks for considering, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:41, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

This work reads good and looks good, very good. The numerous illustrations are a delight to see. I think there about 100 illustrations/sketches. It is an excellent choice! —William Maury Morris II Talk 17:38, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

The book does read well... I scrutinized over it when I read it. I did have one issue with it that probably only bothers me because I am not a (an?) historian, but in one or two passages in the book, Mrs. Pennell seems to speak unfavorably about Russian Jews who were moving to the city. I assume there is a rational explanation for that (and I hope someone knowledgeable of the history/subject will enlighten me), for Mrs. Pennell and her husband (from my limited knowledge of them) do not strike me as being a prejudiced lot. I had similar reservations (different topic) when I was transcribing Hamilton's Men I Have Painted, where I felt a certain passage (which I tried to find again today but couldn't, but it has been on my mind for some months) could possibly be misinterpreted by some (it was by me), but after having given it some thought—and having also considered the following which I recently read on WP about Chaucer: "Some have theorized that the Wife's tale may have been written to ease Chaucer's guilty conscience"—I believe Hamilton was possibly referring to himself when making the remark (when I locate the passage, I'll add it here)... We humans do seem to be hardest on ourselves. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:54, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

If it were heavily biased I would not bother with such a book. I personally am opposed to racial biases and focus on individuals, and even then it is only a matter of good or bad "incidents" and then I let those go. We have gained a lot from the Jews. They were an advanced civilization when my Celtic ("K"eltic) ancestry were still running around naked with blue paint on their faces and colored white hair against the Roman Legions. I also do not have to worship multiple gods as many civilizations in the past did. Biases of the past remain there in my view. Biases are a part of anti-civilization. One God created us all or at least that is my belief. But I really do like the illustrations in that book you mentioned and I do love art. I am working on a book about Mexico, Aztec, Mayan, Inca, and North American Indian as well as well as the Eskimo people. Various races make life more fascinating for me. I hope that someone does place your book on WS. I feel sure someone will because as I first stated to you long ago, you do excellent work. Kindest Regards, —William Maury Morris II Talk 00:42, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Here you go: Index:Our Philadelphia (Pennell, 1914).djvu. There is a category at commons for the images too: commons:Category:Our Philadelphia (Pennell, 1914). The images might be a bit tricky to extract without losing some detail, as the colours are quite pale. Good luck, and feel free to come back for more. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:45, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! I'll be scanning the images from my text, so no extraction (in this case) will be necessary! I'll scan the images at 600dpi so they're nice and big! :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:41, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
Image question: I started scanning/uploading images from the book. I have to rescan most of them, 'cause I didn't originally notice that the far left side of the images were blurred. But my question for you specifically is, should I upload original images and cropped/edited images as separate files on Commons? or would it be more efficient/tidy to first upload the original of the page, and then upload the cropped/edited version as a "new version" of the original file? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:45, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
You know, they (whoever/whomever(?) 'they' are) really need to make scanners with a raised scanning surface so you can get a proper scan without breaking the binding of a book. Not that I've broken the binding... yet! Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:38, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
They do, they look like a book cradle: [3]. The really fancy/expensive turn pages automatically with compressed air! You can even make your own with a digital camera or two and a few bits of pipe. User:Mattwj2002 is keen on this kind of DIY hackery, but unfortunately, I have no PD books to scan, so I have no real reason to make one of these just yet. Maybe one day when I can afford to fund a book-scanning foundation! Alternatively the Internet Archive will scan books for free, but you might not ever get them back, and it will take some time to get processed. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:49, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I'll look into them as well as your description above later... Just got back at the helm... AKA Londonjackbooks 01:08, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
You now have a golden opportunity to work with what you enjoy. I have no idea if you are aware of this but the same book Our Philadelphia with illustrations and text in ascii and HTML is on Project Gutenberg. Kindest regards, —William Maury Morris II Talk 02:22, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Contextual reading combined with comparisons from various historical perspectives—along with a good dose of the Truth—will, I believe, show that Mrs. Pennell was not offering racial commentary, but social commentary. But any time you lump together segments of society (racial/cultural/religious, etc.)—whether for statistical, political, social, or whatever purposes—you run the risk of opening yourself up to misinterpretation and injecting poisonous seeds of hate and fear within a society. In a free society, that sort of poison is all the more lethal... May it never take root here! Thank you, Inductiveload, for the upload! :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:37, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

VIAF gadget, limits to ten returns[edit]

Hey bloke. I was just creating a page for Hugh Owen and the VIAF gadget returned 10 + undefined, though not the one for whom I was searching. If we are going to limit the search, or get a limited search result, it would be really great if we could have some text that indicates that this (maybe) is not all results so if your object is not showing do hit the outbound search function, or if the search is limited, show me more. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:49, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

As far as I know, the JSONP methods for VIAF are limited to the AutoSuggest service, which is limited to 10 results, and is not able to give you the next 10 like MediaWiki API searches. The full searches seem not to be usable, since they are cross-domain requests (WS to VIAF) and without a JSONP callback, this can't be done for security reasons (though a PHP proxy could do it fairly easily). I have modified the code to warn and give a full search link if 10 results are found, as this could indicate that there are more available, but not shown. Hope that helps! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:10, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Running header.js[edit]

Would it be possible to add a line at the beginning to remove "{{RunningHeader||}}", if it exists? Moondyne (talk) 05:34, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I have made it replace the existing template, as if you clicked the button, you probably expect that. I have made a lot of structural changes as well, so watch our for bugs and let me know! Cheers, Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 03:09, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Charles' wanted poster[edit]

Hi, Charles I was executed by this Parliament in 1649. This 1651 poster must be for Charles II. I've validated the page as Charles II, but didn't want to undo your related edits without flagging with you first. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:17, 10 March 2012 (UTC)

Of course it was, sorry, I wasn't paying attention tonight, clearly. I even know the whole Royal Oak thing is Charles II! Feel free to fix whatever you see. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:34, 10 March 2012 (UTC)


Hi, you might like to check User talk:Hesperian#Regarding Index:Arctic Researches, And Life Amongst the Esquimaux - 1865.djvu. Hesperian 01:03, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Regarding Index:Arctic Researches, And Life Amongst the Esquimaux - 1865.djvu[edit]

Hello, Hesperian directed me here. I am trying to delete this index on redundancy with Index:Life with the Esquimaux - 1864 - Volume 1.djvu and Index:Life with the Esquimaux - 1864 - Volume 2.djvu, but the speedy delete request was declined due to vague policy in place (and vague interpretation). However, as you are the original creator and an administrator, could you possibly take a look and delete this edition yourself? Alternatively, could you tell me in what way it is not redundant to the aforementioned two volume edition? Thanks, ClayClayClay 03:00, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in answering, I have been busy in real life. I don't think having a different edition available is really a compelling reason for speedying a work. Even if the text and formatting is identical, there are at least two differences in the works: pagination and the illustration. It doesn't hurt the project to have the index available, even if the pages are unlikely to be filled any time soon. I suppose the "ultimate goal" (i.e. will never happen, but nice to think about) of WS is to have all editions at least present as scans, so people could check citations to the 1865 edition at a given page. At least, I am not comfortable speedying it, as it is not a clear-cut redundancy case. If you wish, you can take it to WS:PD for community review on a process deletion. I don't have any particular reason to hold on to it, but also not reason to be rid of it, which is what speedying is about. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:42, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

QuickNote to an honorable, busy, and creative person[edit]

Inductiveload, I am aware you are a very creative and busy person but I still am inclined to state again, "Thank you" for your creative and effective eye-strain javascript. I would not be able to work here without it and thus would not be able to enjoy a good portion of my life as I do. Most Respectively, —William Maury Morris II Talk 15:26, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Busy, certainly, but unfortunately not always with WS stuff recently. You are welcome for the colours fix, please ask if there is anything else I can do for you :-) Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:44, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

User:Inductiveload/layout override.js[edit]

Hi IL, I've made this change to the global script as your script run too early. If this break your script I can change the #id name or better for me you can change the template forcing the layout (override is done now by layout number, not by name). — Phe 15:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

Pardon - Please, note -- en.WS is calling its own local PageNumbers.js instead of the one at oldswikisource now (see the last section on its talk page there that went without comment for some time now for partial "reasoning" why). -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:56, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Invitation to events in June and July: bot, script, template, and Gadget makers wanted[edit]

Hello! I invite you to the yearly Berlin hackathon, 1-3 June. Registration is now open. If you need financial assistance or help with visa or hotel, then please register by May 1st and mention it in the registration form.

This is the premier event for the MediaWiki and Wikimedia technical community. We'll be hacking, designing, teaching, and socialising, primarily talking about ResourceLoader and Gadgets (extending functionality with JavaScript), the switch to Lua for templates, Wikidata, and Wikimedia Labs.

We want to bring 100-150 people together, including lots of people who have not attended such events before. User scripts, gadgets, API use, Toolserver, Wikimedia Labs, mobile, structured data, templates -- if you are into any of these things, we want you to come!

I also thought you might want to know about other upcoming events where you can learn more about MediaWiki customization and development, how to best use the web API for bots, and various upcoming features and changes. We'd love to have power users, bot maintainers and writers, and template makers at these events so we can all learn from each other and chat about what needs doing.

Check out the the developers' days preceding Wikimania in July in Washington, DC and our other events.

Best wishes! - Sumana Harihareswara, Wikimedia Foundation's Volunteer Development Coordinator. Please reply on my talk page at Sumanah (talk) 02:50, 6 April 2012 (UTC)

Interesting stuff[edit]

Have you seen MediaWiki:Modernisation.js? It is linked from User:Doug/1, which itself is interwiki transcluded just to show off. :-) There is more information on Modernisation.js that can be found on the MWtalk page and ThomasV's talk page on mul. I think this may be a solution to a very big problem and it may point to a solution to the Great Annotation Debate.--Doug.(talk contribs) 09:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
It is also apparently related to Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/Language Converter.--Doug.(talk contribs) 09:56, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Remove color of page image during proofread mode[edit]

I was just wondering if it was possible to somehow remove the color of the page images (i.e., so that it renders as greyscale) while editing... Some of the pages are so puke-yellow that it hurts my eyes to look at them (e.g., the scans of Our Philadelphia that I have been working on). Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:55, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

Wouldn't have thought so. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:06, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
But? (or no?)
Londonjackbooks, there is usually an option to download a .PDF file in black and white in the area where the color download comes from. I have downloaded them and just used them from my computer when files are too yellow, dingy gray, brown or whatever other bad color. Kind regards, —William Maury Morris II Talk 23:45, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks. I wouldn't want the greyscale to take the place of the original coloration (or close to original)... I think it's important for people to have an accurate idea as to what the source texts looked like. I was just hoping that there was some "toolbox" option or preference option (or if one could be created) where you could switch it up during edit/proofread mode, but yet keep the original coloration when "browsing"... Heaven knows that I myself have edited/photoshopped a number of texts in which you probably can't tell the upload from the original [hmmm... this could be taken a couple different ways; what I meant was my rendering was so far from the original to render it unlikely that it had been edited from a particular original. Something like that anyway... AKA Londonjackbooks 22:52, 17 April 2012 (UTC)]... Mr. Earle, Jr.'s works to name a couple, and Pro Patria (although I kept the staples in!) being another. Where I have been careful to upload images in their original state, I'd point you to Hamilton's Men I Have Painted. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:04, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
No, I did not mean to touch the original (source) file. I meant to just transcribe text from a b/w or grayscale version. I wouldn't change the original either. You have Photoshop and I don't know what that can do. I use ACDSee Pro 5 and I can download all (copy) of the images and make them any color I want (all at once) and then type the text in, and next place text beside the source files online — just to make sure the entire work could be completed. I understand your question better now that you have written more about it. It would indeed be an excellent enhancement and although billinghurst may not be able to do it perhaps Inductiveload can. He enjoys javascripting like a kid with a new toy. I think it is a good idea. —William Maury Morris II Talk 01:39, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
I have tried to implement this, but Javascript security doesn't allow access to raw image data from another domain (, so it can't be manipulated client-side. One way I can see around it is to do it on the server with PHP/ImageMagick and add the functionality to the ProofreadPage extension. I'm afraid making changes to that stuff just causes too much strife, sorry. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:52, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Definitely not a priority... But I still learn in the process... Like I think I know what is meant by "client-side." :) It's all about context... Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:09, 14 April 2012 (UTC)
Inductiveload, I was looking at your contributions, and was considering asking you (not necessarily in that order) to get a Mainspace page started for The Corsair (Byron) that I've been working on... I decided I'd muddle through creating the page(s) myself instead of being lazy; then I noticed that you actually took a 10-minute chunk of your time to implement the above request (re: greyscale topic), and I thought I'd say thanks here. Thanks & goodbye! AKA Londonjackbooks 20:24, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
No problem. I'll let you know if I get it working one day. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:22, 20 April 2012 (UTC)
Note: this can be finished if and when gets CORS enabled: bugzilla:28700. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:10, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

My apologies[edit]

Look... I'm sorry if you think I'm being hostile towards you in particular. This is honestly not the case. What I do take issue with is the justification or rationalization for one thing or another being formalized somewhere else and then brought here to the English WS after the fact. You just happen to be the one, who, admirably, takes up the various causes or chats rooted elsewhere or by others and keeps responding to them en masse as if it was your own invention and based in a benefit for en.WS.

When you come up with something on your own, here on en.WS; I've tended to like & support the idea(s). Its when you "drag" something in here straight from what ever other Wiki you normally contribute to (or worse; IRC) is when the friction usually develops. "Borrowing" ideas from other sites or tandem development is fine - just as long the process is played out to the full where the chips land where they may here.

My stance is merely one where I personally don't care to "be developed" or handled by decisions reached elsewhere by almost strangers in comparison to the day-to-day contributors and the long established regulars on this domain. Again, its nothing personal but it is an observation that I have made and believe to be true. So in closing I apologize if I've been anything less than respectful towards you as an individual and as a valued contributor; any contention you may be precieving from me is soley with the manner in which these type of issues have transpired in relation to the en.WS community as I've percieved them to be to date (not that I speak for the community in any sense of the term). Prost. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:30, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Apology accepted. For the record, enWS is my only currently active wiki, other wikis are Commons and enWP, where I don't get involved in process or infrastructure. Any "development" (as far as local JS counts as dev work) off enWS is at oldWS, where I don't have rights to alter the code. I also am not able to alter the server code. 80% of what goes on in IRC is teaching or helping, and the rest is mostly offtopic. We're really, really not lounging in the channel discussing ways to ruin WS by secret programming changes. Honest. Drop in under a pseudonym and see for yourself!
As for the "justification" with the pagenumbers, I said it was a mistake right from the moment I saw the diff when it happened, as it is a classic mistake to leave commented code commented after testing other areas. I agreed that the change should have been reverted (and it has), since it was not dicussed, and the code was mis-labelled. I provided the CSS as a stopgap as you obviously had a problem with the situation. Server-side problems are slow to resolve and WS doesn't get much attention when it breaks. Again, I can't help here.
I am not trying to force anything through. Our infrastructure certainly is in need of help, not least in the areas of dynamic layouts, and pagenumbers (which are two related, but different, matters that are inconveniently coded into the same file). However, I was not involved in the design of either system, and have had nothing to do with its implementation. The user you might want to complain at is retired, having given us the PP extension, and the layouts work enough that we can and should aim to improve them to an excellent standard, rather than the half-baked effort we have. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:45, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Would this be possible?[edit]

Hi. Would it be possible to write a procedure for the Page: namespace, where I would be flipping the pages backwards and click a button where needed, to have the procedure:

  1. Open the next (in reverse mode) page in edit mode. (e.g: if I look at the top of page 120, it would open page 119 in edit mode.
  2. Insert an empty line and {{nop}} at the end of the page.)
  3. Save the page and close it.

This would really help as I keep missing adding this template. — Ineuw talk 21:56, 22 April 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that would be possible. In fact, I learned how to do that neatly just yesterday! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:04, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
It must have been atheistically providential. . . . . Now the next issue is negotiating for the contract. :-). — Ineuw talk 22:14, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
You got any more livestock? Check your preferences under "development" and tick "NopInserter". A button should appear in the toolbox in the sidebar. :-D Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
This truly is a great help!!!! Please accept this as a small downpayment. If I may make a small suggestion. Is it possible to eliminate the messages except a message if it fails? Many thanks. P.S: oooops . . . I forgot the feed which is included. — Ineuw talk 02:03, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
There you go, it flashes the "previous" button instead to indicate success. Thanks for the cows, they'll keep the others company! Any more tweaks, feel free to ask. Also, if you have similar ideas for gadgets, please mention them, and they are feasible I'll try to knock them together. As William Maury Morris II said, I'm like a kid with a new toy (and it's not even new)! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
Feed for a decade. What an amazing gadget!!! Thanks again. — Ineuw talk 08:14, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I was wondering if it's possible to reverse "advance" one step (to the examined page) at the completion of the procedure. I know that this comes under heading of gadgets for the lazy. :-) — Ineuw talk 22:08, 24 April 2012 (UTC) By appointment to her majesty as the premier marketer of bovines to wikisource.

Sure it is! Add the following to your common.js:
I have made it so it advances if a nop is found, or none is found but one is added. Nothing happens if it doesn't find one and you don't add one (i.e. you click cancel). Is this the behaviour you want/expect? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:19, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
Thanks again, let me work with it later tonight and will let you know.— Ineuw talk 02:28, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Show header/footer [+] button missing[edit]

Inductiveload, can I please have my + button back permanetly that shows the header and footer fields? Presently, I have to click the Plus button each time. It was a good function. —William Maury Morris II Talk 02:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Inductiveload, nevermind, I found and re-set it after posting here but I was using it and never changed it. So, let me think o something different..ok, remember the EYE-STRAIN script I asked you for. Well, it is still wonderful! However, I have the background set to grey which is fine but that only works in the Narrow view and not in the Wider (double column) view. Can you, would you please, fix the script so it also works in the Wider view when editing. I use both. I really do hope that you know how to fix it because it would then be perfect. Respectfully, —William Maury Morris II Talk 02:34, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
Please excuse the rejig of the request. Hello! I have this issue too. What is it you reset to fix it? The gadget? I will take a look at the eye-strain script. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:38, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
OK, that should do it for the eyestrain script. I have learnt how do do it better since then, it should load more reliably now, and the colours should say put when the element is fiddled with by the PP extension. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 03:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
  • I went to preferences where it shows numbers for column and width and far below that is the + button I needed but somehow there was no check in that spot. It was blank and I didn't blank it out. I simply clicked there and saved and now the "Show header and footer fields" is working as it had been for a long time without clicking on the + every time. I do not know how it got unchecked. Respectfully, —William Maury Morris II Talk 03:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
Eyestrain script == nothing has changed for the horizontal layout aka where is the script?
Sorry, I though you were importing the script from my userspace. You have a copy in your local JS. Delete everything above "// == IMPORT REGEX MENU FRAMEWORK ==" at User:William_Maury_Morris_II/common.js. I made it a gadget so you can toggle it more easily. Look under "Interface" in the gadget section of your preferences. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 03:28, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Thank you. wmm2 (WmMM2 wmmmii)—William Maury Morris II Talk 03:20, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Inew, you have a wonderful sense of humor. (Taurus) —William Maury Morris II Talk 02:22, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

On a related topic[edit]

How did you get the colors for the pages to show here? Did you do something special or is that a result of the templates used or what? Thanks.--Doug.(talk contribs) 08:28, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't see any colours in the mainspace. If you see them you may have some sort of cache hold-over from 1.19. What happened was a programming error in the ProofreadPage server code caused the HTML classes that indicate proofread status were added to every link to the Page: NS, not just the ones on the Index: pages. This caused the colours to show up everywhere because the CSS at MediaWiki:common.css wasn't written to expect them anywhere but the Index pages. There is CSS code at WS:S to correct it, but it was never used.
The programming error has been corrected. You seem to have found proposal to add them back in (on purpose and in a documented and stable way) so that the information is available in the page source code, so that gadgets and subdomain-site-level CSS are free to interpret the classes how they want (a gadgetised add-on to add colours to, say, the page numbers, is trivial once the classes are in the page code, and, as a gadget, wholly optional). Hope this didn't confuddle you as much as my WS:S ramblings have been confuddling everyone else. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 15:50, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

BTW, try downloading the page as a pdf, is that a known bug? I thought the major download as pdf bugs had been addressed recently.--Doug.(talk contribs) 10:51, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

The PediaPress extension is still not happy with sectional transclusion. The ePub version works better, though. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 15:50, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

How are they doing this?[edit]

Do you see what's going on here with the sidebar interwikis here? I think has my js but Tpt doesn't appear to be using it?--Doug.(talk contribs) 11:10, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

mw 1.19+ Page namespace editing layout - not broken, but redesigned[edit]

Wikimedia software release v1.19+ changes to the editing buttons' load order were made which cause a delay because I am constantly looking for the old button order and I was wondering if this can be restored.

By doing a simple analysis of the source document, I discovered that the user defined .js toolbar splits the built-in legacy editing toolbar buttons in the Page namespace as follows:

Prior to mw version 1.19, the toolbar buttons were loaded as:

show/hide header & footer
zoom out
original size
zoom in
vertical horizontal
ext link

. . . . followed by the user defined buttons.

With version mw1.19 & greater, the load order was split in which the first five buttons are integral with the Page: namespace and are not visibly listed when one views the Page Source. The universal text editing buttons are loaded last according the View Page Source of Firefox.

show/hide header/footer
zoom out
original size
zoom in
vertical horizontal

. . . . followed by my user defined buttons, with the standard buttons loaded at the end of the source document. Thus, the function delaying the loading of the user defined toolbar buttons has no effect:


Is it possible to get the old order reinstated to save me some editing time? Would it help if I post this on the Mediawiki site? Thanks. — Ineuw talk 06:20, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

P.S: I edited this post to better clarify the issue. — Ineuw talk 18:14, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay, I have been gallivanting in the real world. Take a look at User:Inductiveload/Custom toolbar buttons.js for the "new" way to add buttons (mw.toolbar.insertButton). You'll need a bit of conversion to the new style, but it's straight forward enough. Let me know if that is enough to fix your problem. If not, I have one more idea. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:51, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
WELCOME BACK. (and I don't say this because of my "toolbar button" issues.) Gallivanting is very good! Thanks for the link to the buttons, and will let you know. — Ineuw talk 03:32, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I tried the new syntax in User:Ineuw/vector.js and that didn't work, so I removed it from Vector.js and created a new subfolder User:Ineuw/Custom toolbar buttons.js and that didn't work either. As stupid as this may look, I now placed the code in both folders - since it didn't matter. I also cleared all caches, page, Firefox (13) etc., etc.
Aside and related, I checked the View Page source and sure enough, it properly reads my User:Ineuw/vector.css negations. — Ineuw talk 05:17, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I returned to the View Page source and copied the sections relevant to toolbars and pasted it in User:Ineuw/Sandbox4. There is an empty function there. Perhaps this will help. Thanks .— Ineuw talk 05:35, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
In order to get some work done, I reverted to the old vector.js, which still works as before: split up and the page source view still shows the empty function.
I am now convinced that it's a programming bug when the page is built. I say this because on a rare occasion the button layout reverts to what is should be, but only once in a rare while and not in the same session. Unfortunately, I didn't look at the page source to see what has changed.
At this point, it's unfair to demand more of your precious time, and will rather wait for another recurrence when the buttons revert to their expected layout. I will then copy the source page and alert you to the issue. Thanks again for all your help, and happy gallivanting. — Ineuw talk 19:19, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Commons text upload request[edit]

Inductiveload, would you mind uploading this edition (1896) of The Seven Seas to Commons? I can create the Index. I have been proofreading what we have of the text already in the Main, but have been lukewarm about finishing until we get an Index. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:10, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Here you go: File:The Seven Seas (Kipling, 1896).djvu. This DjVu is under 4MB, so it wouldn't be too hard for you to do ones like it in future and get your stuff done when you need it (I've been away for weeks, so this request could have sat here for a long time). From the Internet Archive details page (the one you linked), click "HTTP" and then download the DjVu file with right-click-save-as. The book template at Commons is pretty self-explanatory, and you can always come and ask for help filling it in, or for re-categorisation or renaming. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:53, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks again. One of these days I'll get it right & not be afraid to get it wrong! Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:59, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
No problem. :-) The advantage of a wiki is that if you get it wrong, it can be fixed. You can always ask for a double-check. I certainly would be happy to cast an eye over anything you aren't sure about. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

forking Chinese KaiShu font templates[edit]

Hi Inductiveload!

Thanks for your contrubutions in the Three Character Classic Chinese text. I noticed that you created a new template for the triplets, which is nice, thank you for that! However until we have replaced all triplets I will still need the old template Template:Kai, in which I am using a disproportionate ruby font, that is the reason that I adjusted the font and line heights. I need this to double check the pinyin/wade-giles transcription accents. So I forked the original Template:Kai template and rolled it back to the version I left it, and created a new one (Template:STCKai) the way you are using it in your template.

I hope it is not a disturbance for you in your work. thanks one more time

Daniel (Csörföly D (talk) 19:15, 7 June 2012 (UTC))

No, that is absolutely fine. I wasn't really sure what {{Kai}} was, I assumed it was for those occurrences. Could you just make a quick note {{Kai}}'s doc subpage what the template is intended for, as that will stop people (like me) coming and messing it up. Also, apologies for the wrong characters on some pages, I now know where they came from, I'll be more careful! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 19:37, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Quest to standardize PSM[edit]

Hi. As my understanding and experience increases with templates & HTML, I've been replacing occurrences of double line spacing of \n\n, or rather two carriage returns, with {{Dhr}}, which works well everywhere, including preceding the {{PSM rule}}. But, there is one exception . . . above and below {{rule}}. My template relies on the natural line height or padding of the preceding and following lines, and since 'rule' doesn't have any, it only appears as a single line. I've done some experimentation in the sandbox, but couldn't pad 'rule'. Would you have a suggestion? Thanks.— Ineuw talk 18:49, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Hmm, I'll have to have a think about it. Could you link to the sandbox you've been experimenting in? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 20:31, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
Here is what I've been experimenting with. — Ineuw talk 21:03, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

3 char classic appendix links[edit]


I noticed that you divided the text of the Appendices of the Three Characters Classic into separate pages. It is nice, however the line links pointing to the lines in the appendices do not work this way, since the template with the line links (STCline) uniformly points to the page San Tzu Ching/San Tzu Ching instead of the separate Appendices accordingly. E.g. see _line 256E_ points to San Tzu Ching/San Tzu Ching#256E instead of San Tzu Ching/Appendix1#256E. My solution for this problem (which is kind of simle) was that I merged all the appendices into the main text, thus all the links were functional. But since you put them into separate pages, please make sure that all the links are working somehow.



OK, meanwhile I checked and realized that you already made this work, but only on the pages that you had proofread. Sorry, for reproaching, and thanks for your work!


That's OK. I understand why you just put them all in one page, and it is a valid way to do it. However, by splitting into "chapters", one per wiki page, it makes it much easier to link and arrange as a book-shaped work. For example, EPUB export tools automatically put a chapter link in for each wiki page (and also anchor links don't appear to work, whereas inter-page/chapter links to, but I'll verify that and try to fix if I can). Unfortunately, it makes the template syntax a little more complex, but I have done all the links in the appendix, and once they are all done, they don't need to be touched again (I also added to the template docs). I will endeavour to proofread some more of it. As it is basically proofread (with just a little bit of formatting to go), I also placed it on the front page's "new text" section, as that might draw in a few new eyes. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:27, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Thank you, one more time. I respect your work done. It is going to be awesome once completely proofread. Csörföly D (talk) 09:44, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

{{ts}} shortcuts[edit]

Regarding the {{ts}} template, I was wondering if shortcuts can be found, whether they were used at all? — Ineuw talk 01:03, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

If you mean a way to count the usages of each style, there is no simple on-wiki way as far as I know, unless you do something ugly and temporary with categories:
{{#ifeq:{{{style}}}|ac|[[Category:Table style - ac]]}}
I wouldn't recommend this way. I will look into ways to do it with a database query. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:41, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Again, it's nice to touch base with you, but don't spend any time on this. My knee jerk reaction was based on the realization that early on, I declared four useless shortcuts and I must correct them. But, whoever used them, would immediately see that they are useless since there is no such thing as a 0px border:
btt = border-top:0px solid transparent;
bbt = border-bottom:0px solid transparent;
blt = border-left:0px solid transparent;
brt = border-right:0px solid transparent;
Yesterday, I created four new ones to correct the error (btt1, bbt1, blt1, brt1). For PSM purposes, their advantage is that there are some oddly bordered tables and these shortcut codes would lessen the number of parameters per cell by simply declaring border=1 in the table definition and then hiding them as needed. — Ineuw talk 15:55, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Report of the Secretary of the Interior[edit]

Hi, I've been told that Tannertsf is unlikely to return to enWS in the medium term. As a result I've been doing some clean up of pages that were transcluded before much, if anything, was proofread. I see that you uploaded the original DjVu files for these. Are any of the mainspace pages worth keeping in their current state? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:35, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

I would say that the main page could be kept with the links to the indexes, but all the subpages are basically useless in the current state. Would you like me to bot them into Tannertsf's user space? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:48, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
I've been deleting the subpages for other works when they're in this state, or just full of redlinks to the page namespace. However, I've no objection to pushing them across into user space (actually, it didn't cross my mind to do that). Up to you. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:47, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, they're not much use. If Tannertsf doesn't mind, I don't mind them being deleted. If he would rather hold on to them, a move is fine too. I have slimmed down the the formatting of the front page, as we don't need a big table for just subpage redlinks and index links. I think we can keep that, as it is a mainspace entry point to a fairly complete set of indexes. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 21:11, 28 June 2012 (UTC)

TUSC token 918678eb806b340b1408614584aaa822[edit]

I am now proud owner of a TUSC account!

The TUSC number and other matters[edit]

Hi. Re the TUSC number: If your intention was to move images to the Commons, would you be so kind as to let me know if you succeeded? If you did, then it means that the developer/maintainer (Jan Luca) still restricts use to admins. I filed a bug report with him HERE a long time ago, but never heard back.

The TUSC number was for a different tool I'm afraid. TUSC is a general Toolserver authentication scheme. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

The other "matter" refers to my custom .js toolbar problem. Just wanted your opinion and to keep you updated to this issue because it has become worse, in that the bar increasingly changes position in consecutive edits. To this end, I copied the source codes of the same page when the changes occur, also checked the my text editor preferences on the Commons and Wikipedia (same problem on both), made screenshots and posted the bug with the files and image on bugzilla. If you can think of anything I missed in the bug report filing, please let me know. Thanks. — Ineuw talk 21:07, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

It's most likely to with an unstable load order of your Javascript bits and bobs. I often see my tools rearranging themselves from page to page, but I have not yet bothered to really nail them down. There's nothing to really report except that your custom JS doesn't have a way to force the order. It is non-trivial to add this capability, since you never know if there are other buttons that will load later. I did suggest a delay to allow the "basic" page to load first and then then custom buttons to load afterwards. It might be easier one day if you come on IRC and we can have a real-time crack at fixing it. Back-and-forth on talk pages takes a very long time and is very frustrating when debugging another user's interface, since I can't see what is going on, am guessing at the problem, and can't get instant feedback. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:40, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Many thanks for your reply. I did try the load delay code but it didn't work for me. Ditto for the new button code style. The IRC is a great idea and will log in and work with you at the first mutually convenient moment. — Ineuw talk 05:04, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Page Triage[edit]

Have you looked over the new patrolling feature I proposed us enabling at the Scriptorium? It does not interfere with the current method of patrolling so no one would be forced to switch if it were brought in. --BirgitteSB 01:22, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Re: Template:Bar and Template:twoem[edit]

Hi, I wasn't aware of {{Bar}} until I saw your edit just now. As a result, I've been using {{twoem}}, which does the same thing. Is it worth making the same change to "twoem" or should we just deprecate it and get a bot to run through the 600-odd uses (they're mostly mine)? Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:14, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Well, "bar" is now able to copy-paste nicely and is resistant to CSS breakage (which can occur in ebooks and the like), which it previously could not do. I would say let's see if bar works nicely first before we do anything drastic. Converting "{{twoem}}" to "{{bar|2}}" is a simple enough bot job, but if there are 600 instances of it, it would be good to be sure before we pull the trigger. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Fair enough. In the meantime I'll start using {{bar|2}} so as not to add more. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:07, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

The Folk-Lore Journal[edit]

Thank you for moving The Folk-Lore Journal to a hierarchical format. I moved its successor publication in February, but I was so exhausted after doing so, that I never got around to doing the ’Journal. Which reminds me, could I beg a favour please? Could you move Folklore (journal) to Folk-Lore over the redirect. It has a history, so it has to be done by an Admin. Thanks in advance, and regards, — Iain Bell (talk) 10:32, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Yes check.svg Done I also moved all the incoming links to Folk-Lore and made the old page a soft redirect, which is now queued for deletion. I had a bit of a surprise when I say there were dozens of subpages, but they were all soft redirects! Phew! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:27, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Well, it took the best part of a month to move them all. It would have been a lot quicker if we had a page-moving ’bot similar to the Commons’ category-moving ’bot. Again, thank you! — Iain Bell (talk) 16:01, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
I do run a bot (see below for a problem it caused by moving pages between indexes!), but the primary use in this case is for replacing redirects with soft redirects. The moves themselves are more easily done manually in one go by moving the "parent" page along with any subpages (it is best to do it before you get to 100 subpages or you run into limits) and then checking all the pages for inbound links. It is this check and the changing of the incoming links that took me the longest. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:49, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

Last year your bot's move created a page with broken navigation[edit]

Please see the talk page (edit. moved here) for more information. IMHO the move(s) should just be undone, but I'm not really enough of a Wikisource editor to be sure. Mark Hurd (talk) 16:03, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

This was actually caused by a link to the page from the contents section of "Volume VIII", which I didn't know could happen. In trying to work out the problem, I moved the page back anyway and recreated it at "Volume 8". These are different editions as well, and I have moved all the pages back to where they were. I'm not sure why the pages were moved and why just these three pages were moved: it looks like an error. Sorry for any confusion and inconvenience and thanks for bringing it to my attention. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:45, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, I think I found evidence of three editions in total: the "Volume VIII" edition and two different dates for the "Volume 8" (second) edition. Anyway, the two existing uploads now seem to be navigating OK. Mark Hurd (talk) 18:16, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

w:en:Wikipedia:Authority control integration proposal[edit]

FYI and I dobbed you in, so expect a reaming some questions about your lovely tool. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:51, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

FWIW, I think that we should be looking to do start categorising those without VIAF data. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:55, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
G'day! The intrepid explorer returns from his arduous struggle in the real world! Looks like they managed without me, though I will keep an eye on it. How goes things in the world of the sources? I agree we could categorise those without AC, and tracking VIAF specifically could also be a part of that. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 09:00, 20 September 2012 (UTC)


Hi. For some reason your eye-strainer stopped working in the Page ns, while still working in the others. Any idea? Thanks--Mpaa (talk) 19:58, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Now fixed. It was nothing dependent on your script. One more request though :-)
When toggling headers/footers on-off with the "+" button, the background goes back to white. Is there any way to have the background staying grey after such toggling? Thanks.--Mpaa (talk) 08:45, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Go to My Preferences/Editing/check "Show header and footer fields when editing in the Page namespace" I think that'll do it. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:01, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm back on-wiki (though with less time for a few weeks at least) from my real-life things. Is this still an issue? I don't have my hacking machine here right now, but I might be able to have a go tonight. Cheers, sorry for the delay, and thanks for your patience. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 08:55, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Rule segments[edit]

Hi, and welcome back! Before posting here, I tried creating additional .SVG rule straight line segments of various lengths using Inkscape, but the effort was a complete failure. Can I ask for some line segments of 20px and 40px when the chance presents itself? Thanks in advance. — Ineuw talk 07:19, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Hello Ineuw! Sorry to be a stranger, but real life is hard! 20px existed already but I have added 40px and 50px spans:
Feel free to ask for more! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 15:15, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
Nice to her from you, and hope all is well. These will do just fine. Thank s lot.— Ineuw talk 00:10, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Another request[edit]

Would it be possible to create segments for a "wavy" rule (see for example Page:Scientific American - Series 1 - Volume 001 - Issue 01.pdf/3), and for the "squigly" rule on the same page above "Late News from Europe"?--T. Mazzei (talk) 05:42, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes and yes. The "wavy" rule is in {{custom rule}} with shortcut "w" (only a 40px variant so far, shout if you need more):
The squiggle is an image: SciAm Wavy Text Divider.svg. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:06, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Microformat data[edit]

Your attention at Template talk:Header#Microformat data would be appreciated, please. Pigsonthewing (talk) 21:20, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Lua scripting implementation (+ templates conversion/rewrite)[edit]

You have new messages
Hello, Inductiveload. You have new messages at WS:S.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

billinghurst sDrewth 08:25, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

AutoHotKey on Linux[edit]

All I want to do is wrap wiki markup around selected text, but now I have to learn how to use a new tool for that. I'm having trouble installing IronAHK on Ubuntu, and I don't know if AutoKey is all that good. Do you know what the current state of gui automation is on Linux? Heyzeuss (talk) 20:50, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Removal of anchors from the page break template[edit]

I saw that you edited {{page break}} a few years ago to remove the anchors from the template. I'm hoping to use the template, but feel that it would benefit from the anchors. I was just hoping to follow up on why they were removed—your edit summary suggests it had something to do with spans disappearing? GorillaWarfare (talk) 12:09, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

VIAF authority control lookup tool failing[edit]

Gday Inductiveload. I hope that you are somewhere close by. The VIAF authority control look has stopped looking up, and sits in a pool of nothingness twiddling its electronic thumbs. I am hoping that you wil be able to give it a poke and a prod and make it feel useful again. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:08, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Billinghurst, it seems to be be working for me, both when served from Wikisource and from my local machine. Could you be a little more specific where it is failing? Long weekend here, so I should have time to take a look today (Sunday) or tomorrow. All the best Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:20, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
I tried it on the two pages you linked: Author:Edward Heath Crouch and Author:Joseph Chamberlain. It worked both times. However, I did later notice that when I tried to access the results page directly, I was told that the request failed because I was making too many (more than one) simultaneous requests. Could it be that? Cheers, Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 20:42, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Project Longshot[edit]


I validated the pages. Thanks, Yann (talk) 19:59, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:25, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

dynamic_layout_overrider and {{default layout}}[edit]

Hey Bloke,

Would you mind coming back for a short period to resolve an issue around the non-working of {{default layout}}. Don't know when or why it stopped working, all I know is that it isn't today. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:10, 10 January 2014 (UTC)



I thought phasing out the old gadget by mirroring the one on commons would be easy -NOT.

Can you go through the .js files and gear them away from creator & institution and towards our author & portal namespaces instead? -- George Orwell III (talk) 04:25, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

We probably able to rely on WD fields and their tool, rather than having the data directly. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:30, 19 March 2014 (UTC)


Over a year ago Portal:Book Industries and Trade was moved to Portal:Book industries and trade. The what links here feature shows that your user sub-page still has a link to the old version. I don't want to delete the unneeded redirect to your page was repaired, but it said it was something do with a script. I didn't want to mess anything up. Can you repair the link on your script page so the unneeded redirect page can be deleted?--BirgitteSB 02:12, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Also Portal:General Literature -> Portal:General literature--BirgitteSB 02:18, 6 June 2014 (UTC)

Portal:Philology and Linguistics -> Portal:Philology and linguistics and Portal:Political Institutions and Public Administration of the United States -> Portal:Political institutions and public administration of the United StatesBirgitteSB 02:46, 6 June 2014 (UTC)


Hello Inductiveload. I updated your common.js page to the latest version of TemplateScript. This is just to enable automatic updates, so you shouldn't see much difference. If you notice any problems or have questions, let me know! :) —Pathoschild 02:44, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

admin confirmation unsuccessful[edit]

Hi Inductiveload,

Just a quick note to let you know I have closed your latest admin confirmation as unsuccessful due to inactivity, and requested removal of your admin access. I hope to see you back her some time, and if/when that occurs there should be no obstacle to you getting the admin tools back.

Cheers, Hesperian 02:33, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Test edits to Hoyt's New Cyclopedia Of Practical Quotations[edit]

Hi Inductiveload,
I added a horizontal rule and three-column formatting with vertical rule separation to two pages near the beginning of this work. I haven't done a lot of Wikisource editing, so I wanted to know if this was considered a useful improvement or not before I continued with additional pages. It has the advantage of making an extremely long single-column page more compact, but it may not scale well for users with mobile devices; I'm not sure. Also, although the column breaks are inserted in the same places as in the original source, the three columns are not vertically justified, although the source page image is. The two pages affected are xvi and xvii
Kind regards,
Objectivesea (talk) 19:27, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

He lives[edit]

smileybillinghurst sDrewth 02:03, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I did wonder how long I could skulk in the shadows! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 02:05, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
You came skulking out of the shadows. If you had stayed in the shadowlands ((Page: Index:), probably a good while longer. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:41, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
I just failed my stealth check. Not a critical failure, that would be adding to {{New texts}}, but not much hope of that for QOK until I learn Persian, or co-opt a friendly speaker! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:49, 25 July 2017 (UTC)
Maybe, @Yoosef Pooranvary: can help. Hrishikes (talk) 15:13, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi @Inductiveload: How can I help? --Yousef (talk) 16:13, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi, @Yoosef Pooranvary:. I've got a work, Quatrains of Omar Khayyam (tr. Whinfield, 1883), that has 500 side-by-side English/Persian quatrains, which I started years ago. The English recently is all proofread, and about about 35 of the Persian sides were very kindly done by User:Pedram.salehpoor a long time ago. It's a lot of work, but perhaps you'd be interested in adding a few of the Persian versed? Obviously, no pressure to do any! I have tried to do a little bit in the errata, but I'm am almost entirely unfamiliar with Persian as a language/alphabet, and I haven't quite got around to learning enough letters to be able to accurately type it or compare against pre-typed online versions. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:26, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Regarding wikiheaders and anchors[edit]

Hi! I saw your recent edit to Author:Guangxu, and thought you might benefit from knowing that wiki-headers inside equal signs (e.g. "===Imperial Decrees===") can already automatically be used as anchors, so you don't need to also add an {{anchor}} after it. Just FYI :) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:34, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the attention and the info. My thinking was it's easy for someone to change (or remove) a ===header=== without knowing they'll break an anchored link (especially as What links here] doesn't show the anchor on any incoming links, in this case, Author:Cixi. (I hope) it's less likely anyone will change an explicit {{anchor}} without a second thought about breaking incoming links. Probably it's less of an issue in the Page/Main namespaces, where the works generally "freeze" on completion and have few authors who set it up "just so", compared to Portal/Author, where the pages are in a state of continuous flux. Or, perhaps, I'm just paranoid! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 14:44, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Welcome back[edit]

The title says it all. — Ineuw talk 09:33, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

PDF to djvu[edit]

Hi, do you know what the best PDF to djvu converter is, one that will preserve the OCR text? Thanks. Samiur Rahman 2017 (talk) 21:02, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

What are you trying to achieve with PDF->DjVu conversion? PDFs are already compressed - you're unlikely to get better compression by re-compressing already-compressed data with a different algorithm. I tried pdf2djvu - it inflated a Google Books scan by around 3 times. You can use PDFs and their text layers at Wikisource just the same as DjVu. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 22:18, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Collected Papers on Analytical Psychology as new text?[edit]

Hello. I noticed Jung's Collected Papers on Analytical Psychology was added to New texts, but it isn't yet completely proofread. Merely wondering. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:41, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

The non-proofread bits do actually appear to be proofread, including italics and even author links, but the original contributor left a lot of it red. I'm going to go through it again, but as far as I'm aware, it's "complete". Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:46, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
The Index is still redlinked, and looks like it needs a Mainspace page. If the pages have been 'proofread', should they not then all be advanced to yellow so it can be marked as a proofread index? IMO it is not yet complete otherwise, despite appearances. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:50, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
To be quite honest, I wasn't planning on the index at all, as I just don't see the point of transcribing hundreds of lines of index when we have a search engine. I'll advance the red pages. Feel free to remove from new texts if you're not happy with it being there now. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:55, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Also IMO, I believe an index to be an integral part of the original text and should be proofread in order to advance a work. I will inquire to see if there are any express WS guidelines to the contrary. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:08, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Never mind, I'll just remove it from new texts. I only wanted to fix the images originally anyway! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:13, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
No problem. Sorry to be a busy-body about it! Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:22, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Well, you're the admin these days, not me! ;-) Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:24, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for reminding me ;) Wasn't really acting in that capacity :) Came across it for other reasons. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:31, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Congratulations, by the way, I wasn't around when it happened! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 01:33, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
Thanks. It may take me another 7 years before I am comfortable/confident as such. I perform basic tasks. Welcome back, by the way! Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:37, 12 November 2017 (UTC)