# User talk:Beeswaxcandle

 Beeswaxcandle (talk page)
 Note: Please use informative section titles that give some indication of the message.

Archive to 30 November 2012

Archive to 31 May 2013

## Magic (Ellis Stanyon)

Bees, could you please write a description of Magic (Ellis Stanyon) in {{Featured text/June}}? Since you contributed to the text, you probably know how to present it. Thanks in advance.--Erasmo Barresi (talk) 18:57, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for doing this; I've been offline for a few days. Before that, I was considering displacing Magic with Laura Secord (per Wikisource:Featured text candidates, this covers an event in June 1813). Do you think this is OK and, if so, do mind if I do so? Especially since Magic has been featured for two days already. (I'll prepare the next few featured texts with a little more time to spare.) - AdamBMorgan (talk) 00:09, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
No problems. Aniversaries with 00 on the end are important for us to match (regardless of the controversies). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:12, 2 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 00:40, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

## Thank You

Thank you for adding me to the Wikisource project. Gregeiselein (talk) 16:16, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

## DMM type

Hi. If you already had the time to classify (some) articles per type offline, you can send me a list (also by mail if you wish), so I can add them directly during article creation. Section tag vs. type is enough.--Mpaa (talk) 15:24, 3 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, but I don't have such a list and it gives me a chance to check all the articles for my errors before announcing the completion of the volume. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:46, 3 June 2013 (UTC)
OK. As you can see, I have generated up to Cardon, Louis. I will pause for today. In case you spot something wrong, let me know. BTW, there are a couple of pages listed in the alphabetical list but not present in text. Maybe they are from Appendix?--Mpaa (talk) 21:54, 4 June 2013 (UTC)
Vol.1 done. In the alphabetical list there are red pages taht probably belong to Appendix, and some blue pages marked as Appendix. Probably something to be fixed.--Mpaa (talk) 18:41, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
Thanks heaps! I'll work through the pages and sort out the red/blue problem. It's quite possible that I messed up a spreadsheet that I was using to create the links. Best, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:58, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
sorted Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:48, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
Vol. 4 done. One red here.--Mpaa (talk) 19:12, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

## Transclusion

I'm reading through the help pages on transclusion, and I have found some questions. This page is listed as an example:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_25/June_1884/The_Sins_of_Legislators_II

But this doesn't look like a good example to me. For example, at the end of the first page, we see a major break with the name of the next page. The third line of page 146 has this word: "causa- tion", and there are more like it. I see that this is in Not Proofread status, but why is this then a good example?

But I have a much bigger question. I can see how to create labels for each section (whether it be a chapter, letter, or other type of section). I can see where the labels and the end mark (####) go in the pages. But how do I then create the section itself? I see how the format of the header for the page works. For example, I can see the way you prepared one of the letters in the Letters of Jonathan Swift that I've been working on. Here is the link again:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Works_of_Rev._Jonathan_Swift/Volume_13/From_Mr._Gay_and_the_duchess_of_Queensberry

So I looked at the Edit version of the page, to see what you did:

http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=The_Works_of_Rev._Jonathan_Swift/Volume_13/From_Mr._Gay_and_the_duchess_of_Queensberry&action=edit

But how did you get there? Do I start in the Index for the volume? Or is there a link on one of these screens to "Create a Section" that I'm just not seeing? I see the syntax: Error: Index expected -- but I don't see where to put it.

Also, will I need to have different labels for each letter? For example, there are multiple letters from Swift to different people. Should I label them something like "From Swift to Whiteway 3"?

Thank you greatly for your help! Susanarb (talk) 18:23, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Susan, you're quite right that the example from PSM is not currently a good one. I'll have a hunt around and see if I can find something better.

There's a couple of things we need to do to make this easier. The first is to go back to the table of contents at the beginning of the volume and create links to the mainspace sub-pages in there. An example of this from a work I'm part way through is Page:A Sailor Boy with Dewey.djvu/11 and the continuation on Page:A Sailor Boy with Dewey.djvu/12. When I've finished proofreading one of the chapters I click on the relevant red link, which takes me to the correct mainspace subpage. Part of doing this will be making the decision as to what the various letters will be titled. We can only use each name once in the mainspace, so yes, we'll need different titles. If there is more than one letter from X to Y, then the first point of disambiguation would be the date of inscription. If more than one on the same date, then as primary editor you get to decide what to do further. I would probably do an APA style with minuscule letters, but that's over to you.

With respect adding the < pages index > command, this is usually just typed out. Although, once it's there on one page, I tend to copy and paste from page to page and just update the fields I need to. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:33, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

After I added the section begin and end tags to

Thank you! Starting with the Contents page makes sense -- I think. :-) I think I'll start that fresh tomorrow.

More questions: I'm working on what appears to be 19 volumes of works written by and about Jonathan Swift. I've checked the author page for him in Wikisource, and find that many of his works already exist. Is there any point in transcribing Gulliver's Travels, or others, if they are already there? I'm guessing that the footnotes are different. Is that enough reason to continue? Or should I just search the various tables of contents for works that do not exist in Wikisource?

Also, the letters in these volumes are to, from, and about Swift. For example, Alexander Pope wrote a letter to a woman named Mrs. Whitelaw who often stayed with Swift when he was dying. It makes sense to include it in the group of letters to and from Swift, but should it also be on the Alexander Pope page? Do we need to create author pages for people not usually sought, such as Mrs. Whitelaw, because she is the author of letters to and about Swift?

Finally, I had started working on a work that was the life of Jonathan Swift. (It was pretty boring, so I've left it for now.) This is clearly not by Swift, as it was written after Swift died. It's probably worth transcribing, but in the vast scheme of things, is it less important than or equally as important as the works that Swift wrote? In other words, should I work on things Swift wrote first, and then turn to works about Swift?

Thank you again for your patience! Susanarb (talk) 23:49, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

I'll see if I can find a bit of time away from A Dictionary of Music and Musicians, which is swallowing most of my attention at the moment, and do the first page of the Vol 13 Contents for you. That will give you a starting point.

Now, your questions. The copy of Gulliver's Travels we have isn't backed by a scan, so transcribing this copy is worth it for that reason alone. I suspect the other works are in a similar position. However, focusing initially on the works we don't hold is a way to fill in the gaps and we/you can always return to the others later. Just depends on what you want to work on. I recently proofread Great Expectations even though we already had a copy, because I wanted to read it. Through my reading it here, I made it available. (I'm working through Trollope's Barchester Chronicles now.)

Yes, while the letters from other authors are in the works of Swift, they need to be on the relevant author pages. In the Dictionary, I've got an author who wrote one small article about his father, and he'll have an author page.

This is a group of volunteers who are working on things that interest us as indiviudals. If you "have" to work on something that you find boring, then you won't stay and we don't want that. Sure, at some point it would be nice to have the "life" (if only because it will complete the 19 volume set), but someone will come along at some point and deal with it. Alternatively, you could do what I do with this sort of thing and just chip away at it a few pages a day or a week in amongst the interesting stuff. I usually have 4 or 5 works actively on the go at once and try to do a few pages on each most days. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:11, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Now I'm envious -- I want to work on the Dictionary of Music and Musicians! There just isn't enough time in a day.

The work wasn't that boring, and I don't mind finishing it. I just wanted to make sure that I'm doing something that is desirable. So thank you, not just for your information and help, but also for your inspiration!

Susan Susanarb (talk) 00:17, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

## Date of Work

It's me again! In reading the history of Swift, I learned that he wrote The Conduct of the Allies in 1711, and mentioned in his Journal on Feb. 4, 1711. However, the Wikisource listing of Swift's works indicate the year 1713. That must have been a later edition of the essay. Should something be done about it?

Also, I have another question. (You didn't think I could ask only one, did you?) This particular publisher/editor sometimes uses an "f" for an "s", such as paffed instead of passed. I've been using the SIC code to mark those. Is that the preferred method? Or should I just correct it to "s"?

Also, I have another -- this one about punctuation. On occasion, there will be an obvious typo regarding punctuation, such as a comma at the end of a paragraph. I've been leaving them as is, and the SIC code doesn't really fit. Should I be correcting those punctuation marks, or using SIC, or doing nothing?

Thank you again! Susanarb (talk) 03:16, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

The wikipedia article agrees with 1711, so as we don't have the work already, just change the date to 1711.

That's not a 'f', it's actually a long-s {{ls}}. The long-s was mostly in use in the Tudor and Stuart periods, but by the end of the 17th Century it was falling into disfavour and by the end of the 18th was only used by publishers who wanted to pretend antiquity, which situation still persists today. There have been long debates here about how to transcribe the long-s (particularly as it doesn't display for everyone depending on the font and browser) and we are pretty much settled on it being a matter of choice for the original editor. We just ask that it be consistent throughout a work and that the decision is noted on the Index Talk: page for the work. It's not a SIC situation as it's not a printing error. As a rough guideline my personal preference is to use {{ls}} in works written and printed in the period up to and including the First Commonwealth. From the Restoration onwards I just use s.

For the punctuation errors, just leave them as they are without noting them. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:42, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks -- these are post-Restoration works, so I'll switch them to s. Susanarb (talk) 04:47, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

## No Running Headers or Page Numbers

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Origin_of_Species_1859_facsimile.djvu/263

Beeswaxcandle, I have posted several "alerts" on this that show on the watchlist. Have we ceased using running headers and page numbers in the proofreading boxes?

Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 04:37, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Maury, see Help:Formatting conventions. No, we haven't stopped using running headers. However, that is "only" a convention and they are not compulsory. I see them as being helpful to future validators and proofreaders and as such I see adding them as a courtesy. But having them missing from a page is not a reason to demote the page's status. I note that the work was proofread a couple of years' back, so I'm not sure it's worth pursuing at this time. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:50, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Beez, I have always thought running headers were compulsory. What a waste of time and effort over the years where I myself have used them as well as others here. I demoted page status (easily changed back, or upgraded to validated) to catch an administrator's attention and not only because of missing running headers that were never needed (unknown to me) but because there are no page numbers. Perhaps page numbers in the headers are not needed either. Perhaps future proofreaders & validators won't need page numbers. Imagine, books without page numbers and I recall that we were once supposed to "copy" the book images as exact as possible which would require running headers as well as page numbers. I think it best to just avoid works without these once supposed necessary things when "copying" a book's image. All in all, it presents no problem for me one way or another aside from my previous beliefs and extra, (hundreds) of validations on other people's works. I'll not bother them. We have validation month to cover works that are "a couple of years back" and less so the importance must exist somewhere. Rules should exist or not exist and either way they should be noted as you have pointed out in Help:Formatting conventions. My own interest is in how to transclude 2 books I have completed. Anyhow, thank you kindly for the explanation. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 15:35, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

## Like the Cheshire Cat

Beeswaxcandle, you have been a good helper-administrator here and a friend in private mail. But like the Cheshire Cat in Alice in Wonderland, or was it Through the Looking Glass? -- I am slowly working on leaving wikisource due to problems with transclusions. For some reason I cannot figure out how they are done and I detest my works being unfinished that are not transcluded. Kindest regards ole fellow and my best to you and your loved ones on health issues. —Maury (talk) 00:25, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Maury, if you never learn to transclude, that's OK. If one day you decide you'd like some coaching on it, then that's OK as well. In the meantime just let me know which of your projects are proofread through and I can transclude them for you.

This community would be a poorer place without your desire for the perfect image and work on various aspects of the history of the southern states. This is along with your willingness to chip away at various validations, even if the topic doesn't really interest you. The projects that I believe you should be proudest of are The Clipper Ship Era and Mexico, as it was and as it is. Yes, they were both co-operative ventures, but you were the driving force behind both of them. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:52, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

## Gunpowder & Grits

1. M F Maury address before the Philodemic Society.pdf less than 16 pgs] Done
1. Face to Face With the Mexicans.djvu

My work with Raul on several books about Mexico has been my greatest pleasure here since I arrived from wikipedia in 2006 and landed here in 2009. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 22:00, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Done the first three. If anything needs tweaking or is completely wrong, just let me know and I'll fix it.

I'll do the Mexican book tomorrow as I need to understand the structure of the work first. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:33, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

## Beatles Song for July 4th, 2013 - "It was Twenty-years Ago Today.."

WOW! You do transclusions as if it were only child's play. Thank you many times over!! The works look so much better, so pleasing to the eye, so perfect when transcluded as opposed to many proofread but unvalidated yellow squares to stare at for ever so long. Beez, come this July 4th, I will have been placing books and websites on internet for 20 years and almost on a daily basis. Websites are gone when one stops paying an ISP but here work gets archived and hopefully for many generations. Thank you for all that you have done in the years here on en.WS The following was done on July 4th, 1993 and shows the date within but will show a date of 1994 on the outside of the files because a West Virginia ISP site closed and the files and books were moved to Carolina thereby showing 1994 which was transferred files of 1994.

The book I used was found in an attic trunk, the heat over years dried the pages to a brittleness that every page had to be carefully taped together and then typed into a computer. This was how I learned to type, by struggling and a one-handed painful wrist with pains, covered with a liquid pain killer, wrapped up as in football wraps, and pain pills 20 years ago. I had no left hand to help in typing. It got to a point where I could barely type one letter very slowly, almost not at all. This remains a true victory over several problems. This book is the 1st non-fiction book of its type on all of Internet. Look inside of any one of the pages and you will see the date of 1993 and my old email address wmm@itc.Virginia.Edu & wmm@Hopper.itc.Virginia.Edu (Hopper- Rear Admiral Grace Hopper USN) (itc= "Internet Technology Committee" working on a Unix system )

20 years of typing books and articles for websites + image editing! Wayback wasn't even around until later and that went through stages and name changes, so it only has small parts of my websites--almost nothing left after 20 years except for my work on WP and WS.

Thus the value of Wikipedia and Wikisource for the preservation of history, science, religion, poetry, and anything else! —Maury (talk) 06:14, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

## Split Footnote

Good morning! (Or Good whatever-it-is-for-you.)

I have a footnote that is split over 3 pages, not just two. I've put the <ref name="p246"> code on the first page, and <ref follow="p246"> on the second. But do I then put <ref follow="p246"> or <ref follow="p247"> on the third page? And should I also put <ref name="p247"> on the second page footnote? Here is a link to the page with the first part of the footnote for your review: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_1.djvu/246

Thank you again for your help! Susan Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Hi Susan, I think my record is a footnote that went over four pages, but one of the other editors had a multi-page footnote within another multipage footnote, so I think ended up with something like seven pages! Anyway, just continue with the <ref follow="p246"> until you reach the end. Don't need to name the intervening pages, just carry on following. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks!!! Susanarb (talk) 22:19, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

## Moving books to Commons

Hello Beeswaxcandle, just to let you know that moving books from WS to Commons is not always a good idea. Commons are most oftenly blocked in China, so I have to use VPN. The VPN I only have very briefly during the day. And there is more of these stupid problems: while on VPN I cannot use US proxies because they are blocked for editing on all wikis for alleged use by spam bots. Which leaves me with slow Scandinavian proxies. Surprisingly though, the particular book "Chinese Life in Tibetan Foothills" is visible to me now with VPN switched off. I hope it lasts. I mean, I have no objections to a copy of the book on Commons but if there is no copy on WS (which is seldom blocked in my province) it might be a problem for me to continue working. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

I understand this problem but it will have to be moved to Commons at some point. Our policy is that all files are uploaded to Commons with the exception of those that can't be hosted on Commons because of copyright issues in the country of origin. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:39, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

## Butterfly Award

Beeswaxcandle, I would like to make a request for a special award. Kathleen.wright5 flits from place to place, and for years now, while always validating other people's pages. I would like to suggest an image of a beautiful butterfly be used as a special word for validators who accumulate x/# of validations in any given month. I believe this will get more of our unvalidated works validated. People like the awards for proofread of the month and they will like a "special" award for validators of the month. Warm wishes for you, your family, and especially for everyone's health there in your beloved NZ. —Maury (talk) 00:45, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

## Score: Trying too hard?

Hello. My turn to admit defeat/befuddlement.

If you have a moment free, would you please be so kind as to case an eye over the <score/> imbedded herein? I have given it my best attempt, but would like to know if you can spot anything I have been grossly amiss with. In particular, am I expecting too much that the result renders so wide, and (apparently) resists all attempts to squeeze below (say) 400px wide?

I did briefly achieve this by use of an additional (\layout { ragged-right = ##t }) clause; but at the cost of the entire score rendering twice, once in each of the desirable and undesirable forms. (Go ahead and laugh―maybe I got the syntax entirely wrong?)

Any recommendations gratefully received. MODCHK (talk) 03:29, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

I haven't delved into it yet, but the section of the lilypond manual that will help is this one. I need to get into it myself as I'm having spacing problems with various snippets in the Dictionary. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:09, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
and (apparently) resists all attempts to squeeze below (say) 400px wide?
Take another look at that page now. A dedicated template based on the FreedImg core could easily handle such misbehavin' scores with some modification/customization. -- George Orwell III (talk) 05:06, 30 June 2013 (UTC)
'Ere I am, learnin' to drive a car, an' thinkin' I'm not making too much of a fist of it; an' George comes along, blinks the turnin' indicators on the local tectonic plate, and just to prove the point lowers the flaps and does a barrel-roll in it before casually handing over the keys. I--am--in-shock--MODCHK (talk) 10:47, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

## Blocked from Editing?

Would you please look at my Usertalk Page: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Susanarb? There is an entry at the bottom about Blocked from Editing that I don't understand. Did someone leave me an offensive message that was deleted and the message was put in its place? Or have I been blocked from editing?

Thanks for making sense of the confusion. I'm going back to the poetry of Jonathan Swift, with the expectation that I'm still okay. Susan Susanarb (talk) 23:26, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

No, you are definitely not blocked. It was a vandal who put the template there. Adam has already reverted it along with all the other stuff it spread around. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:01, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
Good news. I saw an email alert that one of the pages I had just proofread was changed by the same user, but fortunately, that has been reversed also.Susanarb (talk) 00:09, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

## v

Beeswaxcandle,

I have completed validating all of the following. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 15:08, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

## Numbered Poetry

Here's a poetry page that I've been working on: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_7.djvu/94. As you can see, it puts a number on the right margin of every fifth line. I've used the running header code, but it adds an extra space between lines that ruins the effect of the poetry. Is there another option that will not add that extra space? Susan Susanarb (talk) 21:35, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, use {{pline}} for this. An example of it in use is Page:Poems and extracts - Wordsworth.djvu/29. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:44, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you!

Susanarb (talk) 21:57, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

## Score cres.

Hi, Beeswaxcandle. Good-day.

On your advice, I've made a start on the scores in this index with diligent use of the help pages, and where it doesn't work, by copy-pasting from your scores. :) Could you please add the italicised cres. at the bottom of the first score on this page? I've tried it many ways, but most of them show up as a Lilypond formatting error box. TIA—Clockery Fairfield (talk) 13:06, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello folks.
I hope you don't mind my interfering (too much), but I stumbled across the answer to this very issue here in the Lilypond manual. I made these changes to add the missing "cres." and to swing the slur across the last bar boundary under the stave. (As my music theory is rather rusty I hope I'm making at least some sense!)
Note, I have made absolutely no attempt to convert the other two staves on this page; I did not want to clutter up the “sample change.”
Regards, MODCHK (talk) 17:19, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
It's not the usual way to do dynamics in lilypond, but it works and looks just fine, so ... Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:53, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Oh. I was attempting to follow (as I understood it) the recipe as identified above in the Lilypond manual. Just in case I'm inadvertently leading everybody astray, please set me straight as to the "usual way."
And while I'm thinking about it, doesn't it strike anybody else as strange that the {{FI}} wrapper around score (implying variable image sizing) is being crippled by fixing width=350px? I would have thought perhaps a percentage value might be a little more appropriate/logical? MODCHK (talk) 05:17, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
For dynamics see the documentation here. This enables them to be done over a range. wrt to FI, I don't understand what you mean as I've never used the template before and just dropped the score in to replace the image. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks, both. Re. the {{FI}} wrapper, well, I saw that all the other scores which BWC has done use it, and the width was too large, so I used the width as well. As I've absolutely no idea how to use it, I did it as best as I could. I've removed it now. Sincerely—Clockery Fairfield (talk) 12:35, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
Ah well, learning all around! I now understand what you meant by the "usual way of expressing dynamics." The obvious problem being dual: the standard Lilypond annotation \cresc generates the text "cresc." (whereas the scanned page reads "cres."), and furthermore the standard method uses a lighter (i.e. non-bolded) font.
My personal choice is to match the scan, but the trade-off results in much simpler and standard Lilypond code and if Clockery chooses to do it this way (i.e. replace «\markup { \bold \italic cres. }» with «\cresc») I am certainly happy.
With regard to use of {{FI}}, Clockery has got it exactly right. In this particular case it isn't strictly necessary, but for scores which generate very wide results it is a rather neat way of restricting the image size (see my earlier entreaty to you, above.) MODCHK (talk) 14:10, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

## r

Beeswaxcandle, [[1]] can a rh be used in a table in this manner? —Maury (talk) 14:01, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

While it's not the way I would have done it, if it works, then fine. However, it would be better done as a proper table instead of using various templates to imitate a table. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:40, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
My concern was that if it is erroneous as seen in "edit" mode (and again now), which isn't identical to the difficult book, I didn't want that person to continue wasting his time and effort. It would be disheartening to do so much work only to get it destroyed. There are several pages that require a proper table that are very similar to what he is working on. Personally, I think it looks good but I wouldn't want to see anyone new working hard with all of that complicated editing only to have it overwritten and a new table in place of each he is working on. I myself am pleased that anyone would have the bravado to take on the complicated pages in that book. Even many of the image pages are complicated and with text. His work is excellent work and perhaps nobody else would have ever touched those complicated pages he has done. We are blessed to have excellent editors like this person—and all the others that we have. kind regards, —Maury (talk) 03:20, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

## Treaty of Mundisore

Hi I reverted your edit. Unless I am missing something the text of this treaty can in no way be copyrighted because it happened 200 years ago. Since there are no online sources I can't understand the problem of using a book as a source. Solomon7968 (talk) 17:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree that the treaty text itself can't be under copyright anymore, but our policies still require a license tag to indicate this. We also need a source that does not claim copyright. The book you have linked to as a source has a copyright statement that implies that all of the contents are covered. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:36, 7 July 2013 (UTC)
Isn't this just a matter of locating the treaty in the UK/British archives??? And BWC is right about proper sourcing - most of the modern day sources refer to blogs or worse. -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:15, 9 July 2013 (UTC)

Currently there is an article in wikipedia Articles of Sugauli which needs to be transwikied to wikisource. There is now a tag on it since 2000. Is there any way to import it to wikisource preserving the page history? Solomon7968 (talk) 14:27, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

## Brackets in Poetry

Occasionally, Swift's publisher used brackets to indicate where Swift used a triplet or a 4-line rhyme (a quartet?) instead of a couplet in a poem. Here is an example: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_7.djvu/168. I've been including the bracket in the transcription, mainly because I bothered to learn how. :-) However, I am not satisfied with the look (I don't like the space between the body and the tail -- and the 4-line bracket is worse), and I'm not sure that it's really necessary or desired in the final version. What do you think? Leave the brackets in? Can you improve my coding so that the bracket is smooth?

Thanks again, as always. Susan Susanarb (talk) 22:55, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

I've taken the liberty of editing the page to demonstrate an alternative that makes a smoother brace. I've also used <poem> to reduce the amount of coding that needs to be added. You may find both features useful. Feel free to revert anything that doesn't work for you. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:21, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! But that leads me to another question (as always!): Can I use the same <poem> code when the poem continues to the next page? Or does it mess up transcluding somehow? Susan Susanarb (talk) 23:39, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

You have to end the poem tag on each page, but if you start it on the next page, they'll run continuously. See T. S. Eliot's "The Waste Land", which I formatted in this way, if you need an example. There's a lot of additional formatting tricks in there you probably won't need (it's a very modern poem). --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:10, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
That said, there has been a move away from using poem tags here to direct formatting per Help:Poetry. I know Londonjackbooks was having problems with the tags for some poems and has pretty much given up on them. (Susan, LJB is our poetry expert.) Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:47, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
In other words, when the software is updated, but someone got it wrong, we have temporary disruption of formatting. This can happen with any tag or template as the software is updated. Right now, page numbers that float in the transclusion of works do not link back to the source page, as they should and as they used to do. Right now, more often than not, they lead to the Main Page. Or, not so long ago, our entire proofreading system went wonky for a day. We're always going to have bugginess whenever something gets updated. I don't see that as a reason to avoid using tags. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:21, 9 July 2013 (UTC)
I've found that the poem tag doesn't work with outdents and some other formatting codes, so I returned to using direct formatting for those poems. I'm fixing all of the poems I've done. (And thanks all for the references and help!) Susanarb (talk) 19:15, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

## &

[[2]] Beeswaxcandle, the bottom of this page is incorrect and I don't know how to properly fix it. Best Regards, —Maury (talk) 02:22, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Looks like MODCHK's got to it already. What happened was that when you used the Cleanup script, the line-breaks before the colons got collapsed so that the lines ran on instead. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:04, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I see what you mean. But if those two lines had been spaced as I think the book shows them as separate lines, then they would not have collapsed and run together. I don't think the use of colons served a good purpose in that situation. There are other ways to do the same thing but do it so the two lines won't run together when I used shift+alt+x to make sure that page was formatted. Best regards, —Maury (talk) 04:38, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

## Congrats!

Beez, I enjoyed completing the book together. Remember to add the Done date to it. I will continue working on the Rover Boys with Dewey and then I will perhaps look back for the one on the "Ocean" since I prefer nautical works. —Maury (talk) 04:36, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Maury. Given your interest in nautical works, have a look at Index:Fighting in Cuban Waters.djvu and Index:Under Dewey at Manila.djvu, both set in the Spanish-American war. Also, the next Stratemeyer work in my list is Index:Last Cruise of the Spitfire.djvu, which I plan to start tomorrow. Es un exceso de calidad. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:09, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
You are always welcome my friend. Besides, I find the Rover Boys series interesting. It is interesting, easy, relaxing reading, and the topics are numerous. The Ocean work is already fully proofread by you and I am almost done with the Dewey work (maybe tonight) The spitfire is a great USA plane but as for just design I have always liked the German Messerschmitt. I put together a lot of model planes and ships when I was about age 7-10 yrs of age. When I first got out of the military I wanted to take more flying lessons at a civilian airport. But my G.I.Bill (government issue bill) would only pay for me to take lessons on a commercial airliner. I still flew a twin engine Cessna though. My best to you and your family. —Maury (talk) 05:28, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Ah, but this Spitfire is a sailing ship in the mid-1890's—a few years before Richard Pearse made the first sustained powered flight in March 1903. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:38, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
Great, I prefer ships over planes in my old age. The 1830s-60 are my preferred works. That is when Matthew Fontaine Maury was in the USN and internationally famous. Just tracking that man through those years and reading what he encountered and the many different works he took on almost at the same time is amazing. He had the drive, the imagination, and it was important that he had a love and understanding for math. Tables and charts was his "cup of tea". Matthew loved creating tables on many different things--on land and on charting the seas--even the bottom of the oceans. He is one of my several heroes in history and science. P.S. I am almost done with the Dewey book. About 10 Index pages to validate and that will be ready for you to do your thing with it. —Maury (talk) 05:58, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
A Sailor Boy with Dewey DONE & Dated—Maury (talk) 06:13, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Hello Beeswaxcandle, your change to John Smith was correct information. It states in Wikipedia. Do you mean his birth and death date? --Raninghai (talk) 17:05, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Reverted again. We just aren't sure its the same John Smith without a.) his birth and death dates (whenever possible) in relation to b) any number of works titled Virginia also without a publication date & Publisher's name & city for it.
What on Wikipedia are you talking about? Can you provide a link? -- George Orwell III (talk) 19:27, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
@Raninghai, you put his dates as 1580 to 1631. However, this John Smith was alive and working in 1890–1904. He also contributed entries to the 1911 Encylcopaedia Britannica. Therefore, he simply cannot be the same John Smith as the dates you added. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:09, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Ooops. I did not look that close at the previous revision(s) otherwise I would have spotted that imposibility too (my bad).

Nevertheless mr./ms. Raninghai, the premise is the same - the more dates & details we can add to the author's header template as well any of the individual works being listed there, the more certain we can be that a specific title is indeed authored by the same person being attributed. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:27, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

## another Done and Dated

Index:The Rover Boys on the Ocean.djvu —Maury (talk) 01:31, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

## One Footnote - Two References

How do I make one footnote work for two references? Here is the page where this happens: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_11.djvu/67. I put the same footnote down twice, but that's not tidy. Do you have a different solution? Thanks, as always! Susan Susanarb (talk) 22:10, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Susan, this uses the named reference technique. For the first mention use <ref name="name">content</ref> and then for each other mention on the page use <ref name="name" /> Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:07, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Does it matter what "name" I use? Should I use the number that the footnote will have? Or use the page number, as I do when the footnote goes to the next page? Susanarb (talk) 23:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
It doesn't really matter as long as it makes sense to you. If it happens more than once in a section or chapter that will be transcluded, each name will need to be different. I wouldn't use the page number as you have that meaning a split footnote and you don't want to confuse yourself if you go back to a page. You could use FN1, FN2, etc. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:35, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! Susanarb (talk) 23:52, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

## Cleanup of small works

Hi. After looking at the lists of works in various states of completion, I lost all envy. . . . meaning that I am not envious of your management responsibilities. As you know, my primary interest is the completion of the PSM project - volumes 1 to 87. Beyond that I have no interest because the content changed from that of an academic focus to a semi sensational format, which we are familiar with today. Since PSM is a multi-year project, sometimes I need to take an occasional break, so I am looking for small incomplete works, focusing on works with missing images, (but not exclusively). I can find them by searching the missing image template links, but how can I tell which are the oldest outstanding works? Thanks. — Ineuw talk 16:45, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Dates that works arrived in categories are not the easiest to work out. I believe it requires querying the API in some way that I don't understand. I sometimes use User:Hesperian/Indices to look for works to work on as the list gives me some idea of how many pages I'm up for without opening several indices. For works with missing images there's always Category:Pages with missing images. I'm not sure what else to suggest at the moment. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 10:08, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
This is fine. The date was just a thought - They are all old. I will bookmark both links. Thanks.— Ineuw talk 01:08, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

## Nowiki

Hello! I have decided to switch between Swift and Austen (because I love her novels). I found that someone has transcluded Pride and Prejudice, although few of the pages have been proofread, and many have not been reviewed at all. I'm seeing some odd codes, though, and wondered if they have a purpose.

For example, on page http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Austen_-_Pride_and_Prejudice,_third_edition,_1817.djvu/25, I have found a nowiki code placed in one paragraph for no apparent purpose. Why would they be there? Is there a purpose? Should I remove them, or leave them be?

On another page, http://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page:Austen_-_Pride_and_Prejudice,_third_edition,_1817.djvu/15&action=edit, there are other codes that I've never seen before. I have assumed that they are present for transclusion purposes (no, I haven't bothered to learn all about transclusion yet), but is that a fair assumption? Should I leave them?

Finally, at the top of some pages, I am seeing a nowiki code. I've left them alone, as I didn't see a nop code at the bottom of the previous page (although I have since added the nop code). Are those also supposed to be there?

Thank you for your help! Susan Susanarb (talk) 18:29, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

A bot has created these pages from text that we already had without scans in the mainspace. Someone has found a matching edition and triggered the bot to it's work. What you are seeing is formatting that was required in the old version of the mainspace pages. It's not required with the scans and transclusion, so feel free to get rid of them. I've done so for the pages you flagged above. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 10:00, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Wonderful news -- thank you. Now I won't feel bad that I'm stepping on someone else's work. Susanarb (talk) 14:54, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

## Validation

Hello! For once, I don't have a problem! (Okay, so sometimes I take pleasure in small things.) I've finished proof-reading Volume I of Pride and Prejudice by Jane Austin. It had already been transcluded, but in a strange way. All of the text was in the transclusion space (if you look at Volume 2, or any chapter from 34 on, you'll see what I mean -- I think it was text from a different edition: similar, but not exactly the same). I removed all of the text that was there, and replaced it with the pages as I have seen in the Wind in the Willows example. So I think it is all good. Very few of the pages have been validated though -- and mostly they are the ones you did to fix my problems. Is there something I should do, such as posting a message somewhere, to alert others that the pages need to be validated? Or will it eventually be found? Thank you for your help and time, as always! Susan Susanarb (talk) 03:31, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Susan, wait until all the pages are proofread, then list the work at Wikisource:Proofread of the Month/validation works#Queued. This will alert me and anyone else watching this page that the work is ready for validating. I try to keep a fiction work in the "running" list at all times (along with a science work, a short work and something else). For the number of pages, just give a rough approximation of how many pages need to be validated. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:53, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Will do, and thank you. Susanarb (talk) 18:40, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

## una problema

Beeswaxcandle, kind sir, helper of the ignorant, [[4]] would you please look at this page and fix it? There is a space at the top that will not go away and in the transclusion area we see the text running way off the page. It's befuddling to me. As always, respectfully, —Maury (talk) 18:56, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Done - You had a space or two after the NOP on the page before that one and that additional spacing was "landing" in front of the page in question when transcluded. -- George Orwell III (talk) 21:02, 24 July 2013 (UTC)
Thank you so much George! That thing was annoying me and I couldn't figure out what was wrong with the page. I didn't think of the previous page. It seems you always know how to solve any problem whether it be this one or another far more complex. I respect you, your abilities, and the fact you are so often helping the rest of us. —Maury (talk) 21:16, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

## Wikisource User Group

Global message delivery, 23:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

## PSM volumes

Hi. I think that you’re playing "favorites" by placing PSM V14 ahead of the queue. :-) But I don’t think I can keep up proofreading at the speed of validations. — Ineuw talk 13:09, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I try to keep a science-related work in "running" at all times and PSM is always more interesting than the more technical works in the "Queued" list. I had noticed that it seemed to have given you the impetus to consolidate the proofreading in those earlier volumes. I suggest you invite Marie to assist with proofreading a later volume (maybe in the 20s, while you finish off the teens). She must have worked out the required PSM style(s) by now. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:23, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. As usual and several day late, I remembered my post and check for a reply. - I always get distracted with other topics on my watchlist. I will contact Marie as you suggested.— Ineuw talk 18:59, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

## Hi

Hi Bees, you (rightly) deleted this user page, but I would like to know who had created it in the first place (was it Cirt?), and if he had placed a false sock tag there (even though it was a public rename, and quite obviously not a sock, and had zero edits). I'm considering asking that he be desyopped, depending on your answer. Thanks. ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:26, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Daniel, it was one of a series of IP addresses that were adding screeds of garbage with an edit summary including the words "Midsummer event". I'm happy to protect the page if you would like that—I've done it with a couple of others that were hit twice in the same chain. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
Ah, funny, the "Midsummer" spam. You can protect the page if you like, although it doesn't seem necessary at this point. The reason I asked is that Cirt has been harassing me for a while, on several wikis, so I thought he had done the same thing here. (Proof I'm not delusional: [5] — created a page for me on a wiki where I have zero edits! And of course the tag is absolutely ridiculous... I wonder how this sort of abuse is tolerated there?) Interesting how some people take advantage of their positions of power to harass and attack other peoples' real names. Anyway, false alarm on this wiki, so my apologies. Take care, DanielTom (talk) 20:34, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

## Maury Page 141

Even using the slightly better resolution on archive.org, there were still many cases where I had to use my prejudices on pronuncication to decide what the diacritics should be, especially ī ǐ ï . And some of those which seemed clear I would dispute. I mean, the second "o" and the "a" in Cŏ-lōm'bï-ā, the "a" in Cŏl-ō-rā'dō - really? I comfort myself that nobody is seriously going to base their pronunciation on this page. Or their view of the world in general on the rest of the book, come to that:

"Many of them (African natives) used to be constantly fighting and making slaves of one another. European nations are stopping this."
"Turkey is, perhaps, the worst governed country in the world ... in fact, scarcely anything is well done in all the country."

Laverock ( Talk ) 07:55, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

In reference to pronunciation and diacritics it should be remembered in these modern times we see with 20-20 hindsight. Too, M F Maury did not print the book. It has to pass by a typesetter and a proofreader. Also, letters and symbols got smashed from use in those days and the symbols are small just as we find smashed letters in regular text which OCR cannot read.

The point about Africans in the book is true. The book was published after the American Civil War and before that war England and the USA had squadrons hunting down slave ships. It was also true that Africans made slaves of other tribes, held them until a slave ship arrived, and sold those slaves thereby making an African king wealthier and more powerful. Regarding Turkey, the time period must be considered. Once an Empire it became an empire no longer as do most empires. Further, a publishing company will alter as desired. I do not believe that every book we get to work on is totally accurate. —Maury (talk) 08:28, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Hi Bees. I have the 1822 edition of Mickle's translation of The Lusiads, at home, so I can check it word by word, but its Wikisource page is of the 1877 edition, and I note that some words (plurals) and punctuation are slightly different. The talk page gives sacred-texts as the source, and I have also found its full text online at archive.org and gutenberg. So here is my question: If I just take that text, copy/paste it to Wikisource, and format it adequately, would that constitute copyvio? (Or is that standard procedure here?) Thanks for helping out a newbie ~ DanielTom (talk) 09:21, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

We're dealing with several different editions of the Mickle translation now. The Internet Archive edition you note is volume 3 of the 1809 edition. The Gutenberg text is the 1877 Fifth edition, as is the sacred-texts text. The edition we have in the scans is the 1791 Third edition. I've just looked for a First or Second edition, but can't find one. I assume that Inductiveload did the same and ended up with the Third edition as the earliest they could find. There is no problem with adding another edition—as long as it is substantially different to the main scan-backed edition—but it will need to be disambiguated in the title.
With respect to your copy/paste question: we always prefer scan-backed text. If there is no scan available, then a copy/paste from Project Gutenberg is acceptable. In this case, though, there are several scans available from several editions, which means that a copy/paste is likely to be over-written or deleted as redundant. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
Okay, I will see the scans, and try to work it out. Thanks ~ DanielTom (talk) 09:59, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
Very interesting system you have here. Thanks for the heads-up. I'm beginning to realize that this will take forever, but as Horace wrote somewhere, "He who has begun has half done. Dare to be wise; begin!" ~ DanielTom (talk) 11:54, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Quick question, if I may: why the mess at the bottom of the page when I update the page numbers? (Can you see it? It used to work, I don't understand the problem now.) Thanks ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:58, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I have no idea why it did that. It's working fine now. The extra stuff usually appears when the page range goes into pages that haven't yet been created. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:12, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Thanks (yes, working again). ~ DanielTom (talk) 12:12, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

## Transcluding Letters

I have many questions for you about how to transclude the letters of Jonathan Swift. However, rather than take up a lot of space on your User talk page, I've moved them to mine. Would you please visit my talk page to answer the questions? Thank you! Susan Susanarb (talk) 23:23, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for all of your answers -- now to work! Susan Susanarb (talk) 14:38, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Another question! What do I do with sections that are not in the TOC? For example, Volume 1 has a dedication page by the editor, a page of quotations about Swift, and a formal 3-page advertisement, all before and none of which are mentioned in the TOC. Do I put them in our TOC so people can read them when they go to the volume, or just leave them out? Susan Susanarb (talk) 16:39, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
Since writing that, I've found that all of the introductory sections not in the TOC are combined in the Title Page. But here's a question: The author is listed as Jonathan Swift. However, the real author of most of volume 1 is Thomas Sheridan, and the author of all of the sections combined in the Title Page section is the editor of the work, John Nichols. Shouldn't we identify the author connected to the Title Page sections as John Nichols and/or Thomas Sheridan instead of Jonathan Swift? Later, when I transclude the letters in volumes 11-13, I'll have the same questions, as there are many authors of the various letters included. Susan Susanarb (talk) 16:53, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

## re: Question raised at AN

Done , account unblocked, per request by Billinghurst (talkcontribs). For any further admin actions in this matter, I'll respectfully defer to the judgment of other admins. Have a great day! Cheers, -- Cirt (talk) 15:47, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for your attention to this matter. Just to restate clearly again: I'll be refraining from any further admin activity related to this issue, and will instead defer to other local admins. :) Hope you're doing well, -- Cirt (talk) 02:21, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

## Template:Short-title

Hi, I've attempted to document this, but would appreciate a second par of eyes, and some cleanup efforts.

Ideally what that template also needs is a re-write (along with the higher level ones) into something like LUA code, because the template syantax used is sufficently complex that it's become too complex to maintain easily.

Some thoughts on possible Test Cases would be appreciated. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:03, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

## R B Series

Beeswaxcandle,

I intend to keep helping with your Rover Boys series if you do not mind and if I don't become exhausted or suddenly sidetracked by something I prefer to do. <smile>

—Maury (talk) 11:02, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

## Bot flag

Hi Bees. Is it possible for a user to request a temporary bot flag for himself? I want to correct "--" with dashes, on some poems, but I don't want to flood the Recent Changes. Thanks ~ DanielTom (talk) 22:22, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Daniel, sorry but it's not available to non-sysops. If there are a lot poems in a series that need changing you could put in a bot request at WS:BOTR. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
No problem. I didn't know that it was only available for admins. Thanks for the link, though. ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:13, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
In any case, I now realize that replacing "--" with "–" could ruin wiki formatting (e.g., "<!--"), so doing it manually should be best. Okay, DanielTom (talk) 22:32, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

## Page Numbering Problem

Please take a look at Volume 6 of the Jonathan Swift works: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_6.djvu. This one is Gulliver's Travels. I'm transcluding it now, but have run into a problem. There were two drawings inserted in the middle of the work -- you'll see one at page 195 and the other after page 214. Unfortunately, the page numbers are not matching up anymore, and it's messing up transclusion also. For the first drawing, the page before is page 194. The drawing is given page number 195, and the next page, a blank page, is given page number 196. The next page of text is given page number 197 in the index, but the page itself is page number 195. Each page number for the next section is two more in the index than the page number on the page. Then we get to the second drawing, preceded by pages 213 and 214, which are pages 211 and 212 on the pages themselves. The drawing is the next page, without a page number, followed by a blank page without a page number. Then the page numbers resume in the index at page 213, followed by page 214. The page numbers in the index are now matching the page numbers on the pages, but there are two each of pages 213 and 214 in the index.

I thought that this wouldn't cause a problem with transclusion, since that is based on the file number, not the page number or the index page number. But I'm finding that the first few chapters of the Voyage to Laputa require an earlier page number to make the chapter appear properly. For example, Chapter 1 should be file numbers 196 to 203, but instead it must be 195 to 203 to include the first page of the chapter. So, the chapters are appearing correctly, but it's a work-around. Can you fix all of this, or is it okay as it is?

I've noticed a quirk too. Take a look at http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift/Volume_6/A_Voyage_to_the_Country_of_the_Houyhnhnms/Chapter_7. There is a break in the middle of a paragraph at page 312-313. The word "defence" was a hyphenated word, so there should not be a break before the word, right?

While I'm writing, I have a question about something that is more a curiosity than a problem. I notice that sometimes when I've transcluded a chapter, the original page numbers appear on the left, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes I see them only after editing, and sometimes only when returning to a chapter that I've already done, but I haven't been able to detect a pattern of what causes them to appear or disappear. What is causing this?

Thank you again for all of your help! Susan Susanarb (talk) 18:34, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

The displayed page numbers in the Mainspace after transclusion are based on the label given them on the Index: page in the pagelist tag. So what I've done to fix it is to add image placeholders to the list and adjust the numbers accordingly. Have a look at my last edit [6] to see what I've done.
The break in the middle of the paragraph is caused by the blank line before the ref follow tag on djvu page 338. I haven't fixed it because I want you to see it and see how changing it makes the difference. (I'm a trainer in RL.)
With respect to the random appearance of the page numbers, I can only quote Mr. Henslowe (Geoffrey Rush's character in Shakespeare in Love) "it's a mystery." I suspect it's a combination of browser, operating system, server speeds and your ISP. It happens to me sometimes as well. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:51, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! I'm mired in Northanger Abbey (having figured out how to fix the pagelist, I'm proud to say!), but I'll look at everything you have done and what you have left for me tomorrow, and load the work on the validation website. Thank you, thank you, thank you! You are, I'm grateful to say, a good trainer! Susan Susanarb (talk) 01:24, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi. In reference to your comment about my page loading problem, can you please tell me which OS, browser and version you're using? My problem hasn't gone away - it's gotten worse - This would further my effort to isolate the source of the issue.— Ineuw talk 20:21, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Windows XP Service Pack 3; Firefox 22.0 It's still happening to me from time to time. For me it partly depends on what else is happening on our wireless LAN; along with where the neighbour's kids are up to with their homework. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:24, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Your software setup is identical to mine, (Windows XP Service Pack 3; Firefox 22.0) but my neighbours don't use computers, especially my ISP, and I am hooked up to the router with an Ethernet cable.
To get to the bottom of things since I lost my usual productivity, after this initial post I also installed Safari and Google Chrome browsers, and tested Google Chrome alongside FF 22.0 in Linux/XUbuntu as well. While both Safari and Google Chrome are faster than FF, the delay or no loading happens with them as well. In addition, also created a new profile in FF, also tried without any add-ons, as well as with and without cache. Yet there was no improvement to the problem.
The only way I can get it working (with a delay), is to click on the clock gadget to clear the page cache before opening in edit mode.
It seems that the delay or no load is related to the latest Mediawiki version and it only happens when working with large files like the ~900 page PSM volumes. When proofreading smaller works, this is not a problem.
Finally, I apologize for this long and exhausting post. :-) — Ineuw talk 00:42, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

## Switched Pages

I'm working on Northanger Abbey, and found that two of the pages have been switched. Here is what we have:
Page:Austen_-_Northanger_Abbey._Persuasion,_vol._I,_1818.djvu/217 is page 189.
Page:Austen_-_Northanger_Abbey._Persuasion,_vol._I,_1818.djvu/218 is page 191.
Page:Austen_-_Northanger_Abbey._Persuasion,_vol._I,_1818.djvu/219 is page 190.
Page:Austen_-_Northanger_Abbey._Persuasion,_vol._I,_1818.djvu/220 is page 192.
I've checked the pages (by reading the story, of course!), and the page numbers on the page are correct, so file numbers 218 and 219 need to be switched. Can you show me how to switch them, or is it something you need to do?

Thank you again! Susan Susanarb (talk) 21:59, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

This is something I get one of the other editors to deal with as he's an expert in this area. But before I do, are there any other page problems in this file? It's easier to deal with them all at once. Also, you should stop working on the file until it's fixed. This is because often changes will trigger the need to move pages later in the file and it's easier to move them if they haven't been created yet. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:11, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Maybe I should have stopped -- but I have now finished proofreading all of the pages. That's okay -- I don't mind repeating this book if necessary, as it's a good one. Thank you. Susan Susanarb (talk) 01:56, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I've just had a look at the pages. It looks like a printer's error to me rather than a scanning error. I think that only the page numbers are swapped, but the content is correct. The run-on words are tangled, but that's minor. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:29, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

I thought that too, but then I was convinced by the words in the footer. I've just compared the text to my paperback copy, and found you are right: the text itself is in the correct order. I'll just SIC the page numbers and leave them. Thank you! Susan Susanarb (talk) 03:47, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

## Template:C,‎

Umm... what is the advantage of this template, and how would a user code for the capital letter version (which could appear in titles, e.g.)? --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:19, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

As a windows user on a laptop I don't have direct access to typing diacritics so I use the contents of Category:Diacritic templates a lot when transcribing footnotes in History of England (Froude) and the various articles in DMM. c-cedilla was the most common of the missing ones, so in frustration (and laziness) I've just created it. All template names start with a capital letter, so I have no choice but to call it C, and have it represent a lower case. Also, diacritics on upper case letters happen rarely enough that I don't mind using the drop-down symbols menu to fish those out. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:30, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Wouldn't it be easier to create shortcuts in your laptop? That's what I did when I had to use Windows on a laptop, partly because (a) I was using a lot of them typing Eastern European text, and (b) I was not working on a Wiki, but in Word. Or does the system of setting up Word charatcer shortcuts not transfer to your browser of choice? --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Word for Windows has character shortcuts built in in an imitation of the way Apple have always done it, so typing the characters in there and copy/pasting is an alternative method (and is the way I dealt with one of the glossary pages in Maury's Geography). The templates are easier to use. It's also easy enough to get a bot to run through a work and substitute them all. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:12, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, subst'ing works. It's just a shame Wikisource doesn't have a personally customizable Edittools like we have on Wiktionary. There, I can set a special, personal set of one-click-to-insert items to show up in the edit window for me. I usually set my personal symbol needs (IPA chars & long-S) as well as my mostly frequently used templates. But here, as on Wikipedia, users are stuck with a fixed list of items they almost never use, accompanied by a supplementary list too expansive so that they have to sort through numerous undesired options to get to the items they want. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:17, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

## {{TOC_row_1-r-1}}

Hello. Thank you for creating this template. (Much better solution to LJB's problem than mine!) However, a quick query for discussion as I genuinely don't know which way to call it: with in the new template this style line appears twice:

align=right style="padding-left:1em"


To my way of thinking, if the field contents are already right-aligned (and should "text-align" be used in any case?), then what useful effect is left-padding the field really achieving? Any thoughts? Regards, MODCHK (talk) 06:37, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

You're being very kind in assuming that I know what I'm doing. All I did was copy the contents of the 2-1-1 template and fiddle a little by changing the alignment for the second parameter. I think the padding is needed on the last parameter so that a long page number doesn't butt up against the end of the author name, but whether it's needed on the middle parameter I don't know. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:47, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
Umm. That was the very issue which had me confused. With exactly the same conclusions—sorry I didn't word the query so well. Oh well, at least we are both thinking about it! MODCHK (talk) 07:02, 9 August 2013 (UTC)
In case it matters - a single Page: built with those templates produces 41 errors in compliance with the current HTML 5 standards for markup (see HERE).

The point being the current application of those templates might be producing what you want today but all that can change as soon as in couple of hours from now to maybe as far as never. In light of that unknown possibility, we should avoid using those deprecated parameters whenever possible to insure the most uniform performance & rendering aross time as well as the various agents in use today or still yet to come (agents=browsers and their versions). -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:36, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

So, this set of templates (TOC_row_...) should all be changed from "align=..." to "text-align:..."? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:48, 10 August 2013 (UTC)
Without inspecting the entire christmas tree of templates of that family to be sure the change did not affect the final layouts somehow, I'd say yes. I'd be glad to address this when I get enough free time to do them all properly but you can take a stab at it in the interim with no worries from me if you like. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:08, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

## Validation on POM Work

I've validated one of the works on the Proofread of the Month website, the Library of Congress Classification Outline -- well, I validated most of the pages, anyway. Should I do something with it, like move it from the Queued list to the Finished list? Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:01, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Uncanny. I logged in just as you posted this message. The "Finished" list is for works that have been done through the main WS:POTM page, so for works done independently of that I've just been quietly removing them from the Queued list with postive thoughts of grateful thanks. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:13, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

It's good to know that someone is watching! Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:46, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Ah, yes, I should have thought of that. Thanks for pointing it out. I haven't done a whole lot yet -- what's your suggestion? Should I dump the work I've put in and upload a new version on Commons from IA? -Pete (talk) 05:52, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

You've two options. a) Upload a djvu file from IA and ask an admin to move the done pages across, then delete the pdf on Commons; b) Replace the pdf on Commons with another pdf and move the pages to match the new pagination that will result. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:00, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
OK, thanks! I don't think I'll take either on just now, but will try to get to it in the next day or two. -Pete (talk) 06:03, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
So, I went with option (a), and uploaded the DJVU file here: File:Centennial History of Oregon 1811-1912, Volume 1.djvu If it's easy, please do move those pages; but like I said, I haven't done a lot, so I don't mind doing it manually. -Pete (talk) 18:56, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
Done for WS. You'll need to make the Commons request. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:05, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
Fabulous. Will do. Thanks! -Pete (talk) 23:10, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

## Gregory of Nyssa

Much thanks on the fix for the Gregory of Nyssa author page. What did I do incorrectly in my setting that up? unsigned comment by Timothyjchambers (talk) .

Main issue was the namespace. Because this is an author page it needs to be in the Author: namespace. By leaving off the prefix, you had it in the Main: namespace, which is where we put the works of the authors. I hadn't realised that he was missing, so I'm grateful for your work in creating his page. My focus in this area at the moment is on the Ante-Nicene fathers, so the Post-Nicene fathers are neglected as there's not many here with an interest in this area. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:53, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

## The red and the black by Stendhal

I uploaded an IA scan to Index:The red and the black (1916).djvu. You expressed interest in working on this piece with me. I welcome your thoughts on scan page 8 which shows a copyright which concerns me. Can we use this work even though it says only for non-commercial and fair use it on WS? - DutchTreat (talk) 15:19, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

It's fine. This isn't a copyright notice. The work's copyright has expired and this is not a derivative work. It's just a copy. I look forward to reading it as we go. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:34, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Perfect! Thanks for the clarification. I'm also looking forward to the project. I read the first book on paper a few years ago, but never finished the second. - DutchTreat (talk) 22:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

## Author Page & HTTPS

I have a couple of questions about the Author page for Jane Austen: Author:Jane_Austen. Several of the books which indicate "transcription project" have been proofread, although they have not been validated yet. Should/May I remove the "transcription project" entry? Also, I see that there are a couple of green symbols beside several of the books. There is no explanation of the symbols on the page, and clicking on them takes me only to the page about the symbols themselves. Do you know what they are for?

Finally, I have questions about the HTTPS notice that is at the top of my pages. It is now August 21st, and I see nothing changed, and everything seems to work as it did. Should I be changing all of my links to https? Or is this something only for those of you who make this entire system work properly.

Thanks, as always, for your help! Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:39, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi Susan, by all means remove the "transcription project" tag for the proofread & transcluded works. It's really there to encourage people to do a little proofreading. Once a work has been transcluded, then the link to the source is available more logically from the work. The green symbol (and any of the companions , , in the series) are an old way to indicate how complete a work is. Now that we've got the Proofread extension, they're being phased out here. You can get rid of these as well. The other green icon (a stylised paper-clip) indicates that the book can be downloaded as an ePub file and read on one of the multiplicity of eReaders available. Best to keep those.

The HTTPS notice needs updating as there's been a delay of a week. See WS:S#HTTPS for users with an account for more info. This change will only affect logging in. All other use of the site won't change as a result. If you want to get rid of the notice, there should be a small "dismiss" in blue over to the top-right corner of the notice area. Just click on that and you won't see it again. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:23, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! I had thought about dismissing the HTTPS notice, but kept it as a reminder to keep looking for changes. I'll remove all but the paper-clip today. Susan Susanarb (talk) 15:16, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

## Face to Face With the Mexicans

• re: 98 Music and Index:Face to Face With the Mexicans.djvu
Beeswaxcandle, I replied on my talk page. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 02:16, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

## The Charterhouse of Parma and La Chartreuse de Parma

I welcome your opinion on wikilinking for La Chartreuse de Parma on Page:The_red_and_the_black_(1916).djvu/12. Wikisource only has the France version fr:La Chartreuse de Parme not the English. However, there is a page w:en:The Charterhouse of Parma on the English Wikipedia about the title. Is it true that your preference would be to redlink to the future (but currently missing) English Wikisource title rather than the existing English Wikipedia or the French Wikisource original? The question in my mind is the priority scholarship or readability? Would we try to keep all wikilinks within English sources, within the same project or to the closest original source? - DutchTreat (talk) 10:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

If there is a possibility of having the work in English evenutally, then our preference is to link to where it will be. Links to other languages and wikipedia should happen at our page for the work. Our main concern about linking directly to the French edition from the middle of an English work is that the casual reader will suddenly find themselves surrounded by French and may have no idea what to do next. Whereas if they choose the French interwiki link from the work's mainpage, they know exactly what they can expect. I'll get on to doing the main page for The Red and the Black today and you can see what I mean about how we do the links. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:36, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
There is some potential merit in taking advantage of linking to Wikipedia content, so I'm curious to learn how we can leverage that angle when appropriate. I appreciate the guidance as I learn the rules of the road. Thanks again. - DutchTreat (talk) 01:08, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
OK, I've created The Red and the Black. There's a WP link in the header and a link to Le Rouge et le Noir in the left hand column somewhere (exact location is browser and skin dependent). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:29, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

## The Traffic Signs (Welsh and English Language Provisions) Regulations and General Directions 1985

Thanks, The page can be restored if and when clean scans are located. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:03, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Following on from the above Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Copyright Act, 1956 (United Kingdom).djvu and others.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:49, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

## Brief Sketch of Work . . .

Beeswaxcandle, I got that U.S.Navy math book (Treatise on Navigation.pdf) deleted through Billinghurst's kindness. Here is a work that is, on recall, about 29 pages long. Most pages need to be validated. I tried to Transclude this work and all of the book pages I had proofread disappeared! I looked at the previous edits and got them restored. Would you please transclude (a wretched phase!) this "Brief Sketch..."? Index:Brief Sketch of Work of Matthew Fontaine Maury 1861-65.pdf —Maury (talk) 20:00, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Done with pleasure. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:18, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
You are a very good person. Your personality here would be the same as in the real and kind life you live. I tried working with the danged transclusion. WS states, "Be Bold", but for a moment I thought I had lost all of that work! May God Bless you and yours, my friend from afar. —Maury (talk) 04:34, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
WOW!!! This is Beautiful! I have never had my own transcluded pages to work with! I can see what needs adjusting and I can see the whole book! My Heavens what a difference like working in the dark and suddenly the sunshine breaks through. I have another ship book I am working on and I have been working (my computer hard drive) on many images of ships--trying to get them as perfect as possible and I can imagine what that will look like--similiar to an earlier book on ships I completed. What a difference! Now I love transclusions as opposed to always working with those squares of yellow for proofread and green for validated.... —Maury (talk) 05:25, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

## Deletion of a page

Hello, why did you delete the link I mentioned in the section "The Meaning of the Glorious Koran" because the link goes to the site where there is much explanations. Regards Veyselperu (talk) 08:08, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

The page was deleted because it had no textual content. Wikisource is a collection of texts, rather than a collection of links. Please see What Wikisource is for more details. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:16, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

## Du Faur - Mount Cook

Hi, welcome back. I've just seen your new work. I hope you don't mind, but I plan to follow you along through this work as it will be a great addition to the NZ collection. (No pressure though as I've plenty of other projects on hand.) Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:59, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm quite slow and from time to time, I stop and restart later... So don't put too much expectation on "my work"... But you're most welcome to give advice and help me. Best regards. Zil (talk) 08:06, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
Hello, as you told me that you would be interested to follow "my work", I've got two questions. First, I tag page 147 as problematic because I used another djvu to get a part of the text. Is it the normal way? Also, on page 319, I'm not sure I would get a good rendering if I split in two images. I'm not really sure how to do that... Do you know a solution? Best regards, Zil (talk) 20:40, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
For page 319, should I split in two files and try to adjust or should I keep on file? Zil (talk) 20:59, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
For page 147 note the source of the additional text on the Talk page and then mark as Proofread. For pages like 319, I usually split into two image files and then use a table to align the images. I find one of the best programs around for cleaning up and splitting a page image is IrfanView. The standard version is a free download and is fairly full-featured. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:41, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
For the binder's mark, you remove in the preface, here, you added it. There you remove it... What would be the most appropriate choice? Zil (talk) 17:13, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Hmm. The one in the preface is a page number in very small text (vii). Looking again at the one on the first chapter, the "2" is a binder's mark, but the tiny "17" is a page number. I'll put the 17 back (which I think is how you originally had it). Thanks, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:15, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

## /* Botany -- Flowers of New Zealand */

Beeswaxcandle, do you have any interest in the flowers of New Zealand? Not long ago I was looking at them since they are unusual to me. Do you have access to HathiTrust? (please answer that!) —Maury (talk) 10:12, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/ls?field1=ocr;q1=new%20zealand%20AND%20illustrated;a=srchls;lmt=ft

The native flowers of New Zealand. Illustrated in colours in the best style of modern chromo-litho art, from drawings coloured to nature, by Mrs. Charles Hetley. by Hetley, G B "Mrs. Charles Hetley." Published 1888

The native flowers of New Zealand. Illustrated in colours in the best style of modern chromo-litho art, from drawings coloured to nature, by Mrs. Charles Hetley. Main Author: Hetley, G B "Mrs. Charles Hetley." Language(s): English Published: London, S. Low, Marston, Searle, and Rivington (limited) 1888. Subjects: Flowers > New Zealand. Botany > New Zealand. Physical Description: 2 p. l., 8 p., 1 l., 36 numb. 1., 3 l. illus., 36 col. pl. 37 1/2cm. Original Format: Book

Definitely interested. This is not a book we have in our library and the household botanist can't recall having ever seen a copy. I only have limited access to HathiTrust and I can't even find this book in there despite using the above link. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:02, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I just now tried the above link and it takes me to the book. The flowers are in color and are beautiful. Many of them are new to me, I don't recall ever seeing them, and I once roamed the oceans and put into strange ports. With the book on HathiTrust I can download one .pdf at a time until all are collected. Then I can place them into one file--the Book. Then there are the regular Google and University marks to remove -- or leave them on each page? Then I can upload to Internet Archives for "cooking" into various formats. But I do not know how to download and then upload any .DJVU file. I get a "Lizard" company image and can read those djvu files but that's all. .PDFs are very easy for me. Would you like to have this book on New Zealand botany -- "Flowers"? The thought came to me when I saw the above posted "work" on a woman author of a NZ Mountain. That is a good book and it too has illustrations but those illustrations are not in good shape. So, I went looking for a book I thought you would like for the NZ collection. Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 05:21, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Yes, please. But only when and as you have time. I've just looked and the NZ Govt. Library website doesn't have a on-line copy yet, so this would be an advantage for enWS. It would also give me something to go back to them with as an example of what we can do and maybe start up a relationship like the Queensland State Library are doing. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:53, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
Okay, friend. It seems even better now that you stated those other options. I had been wondering if you had a local library or a university nearby that would have the same book just in case some pages are torn. I am wondering if I should download the pages as .jpg images, which is faster and place those in order to make a .PDF file (which I can do) and then upload it to IA to "cook" into various formats? BTW, if you can make a good connection with Queensland State Library then you would be able to download an entire book all at once on HathiTrust! Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 06:24, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
To me image rich = images as good as we can before distilling to pdf. IA can only work with what we give them, so I like the idea of high-quality .jpg first. As long as it doesn't increase your workload in pulling it together. Does doing it in .jpg first make it easier to get rid of any google watermarks? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:30, 30 August 2013 (UTC)
I use Adobe Acrobat Pro which allows me to remove watermarks from the .PDF files but my preference with images is always to edit those to look as best as I can get them to look. Since .JPGs are images one still has to edit out those watermarks. They all take about the same time so I will work on the flower images first. They will need to be placed on Commons anyhow so cleaned images are best to work with first. Too, an ugly <filename.pdf> can be placed on commons and then on en.WS via File to Index. Then the cleaned images already on Commons would show a contrast of before and after just as all of our works do. This shows out work best. Ugly FILE but changed to clean file which is what we do here. imho, the uglier the FILE we re-work, the more the contrast what was and what we can do to better all WS books. Anyhow, I want to get started tonight so I will log off now to do this project. No watermarks will be on the cleaned images if that is what you are asking! Our projects are often a "beauty(beautiful images) and the beast(ugly Google watermarks)" situation. I will work on this tomorrow and however long it takes. I won't be working on other works here including SHSP and yachts until this is done. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 06:59, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

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—Maury (talk) 06:39, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

So many books, so little time!! Some of these are already on my to do list from IA copies. But they have to fight for attention with music, Stratemeyer, and all the other works I want to read. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:00, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

## One Way or Another

An updated report on "The native flowers of New Zealand. Illustrated in colours in the best style of modern chromo-litho art, from drawings coloured to nature, by Mrs. Charles Hetley." There is one page of all text that has 1/4 on the left side missing text. I can find no other book like this with a replacement page. What should I do? Kindest thoughts, —Maury (talk) 07:25, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
I can't find an alternative copy either (short of paying 650). Better to have it with a damaged page than to go without. There's a copy of the book in the Auckland Central Library in the restricted special collections area. According to the catalogue it's quite badly foxed, so I'll have to make a pre-arranged trip in once I know what I'm looking for. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:33, 2 September 2013 (UTC) There is only 1 page partly damaged in the Preface. I will look back for that page number. The rest of this book is in excellent condition including the color flowers. So, once I get that page and post it here all you have to do is scan, or write on paper as to what the few missing words are. Don't pay any money! We can get this one way or another. When I first started working on the Southern Historical Society Pages, I often spent time in the University Rare Books collection with pen and paper and a person wearing white gloves turning the pages as I wrote the text out on paper with their pencil. They were very strict but it was do-able. There was no scanning machine allowed either. I need to remove Google and University of Michigan watermarks. (2) I also thought of getting that same book from inter-library loan via my local library. After all, what's a part of the Preface when the book itself is intact? (3)I think I will upload that injured page to Commons today so you can see it. I suspect your email could not handle it even as a .jpg but I don't know. -- "One way or another....." Kindest thoughts good friend from afar, —Maury (talk) 21:56, 2 September 2013 (UTC) ## You're awesome! Hey Beeswaxcandle, I saw your fantastic work with "score" (Help:Score), especially A Dictionary of Music and Musicians and The Child's Own Music Book! And the other pages. Awesome. --Atlasowa (talk) 16:27, 31 August 2013 (UTC) ## Dick Hamilton's Cadet Days Beeswaxcandle, I have completed another full validation of your many books. Dick Hamilton's Cadet Days. I marked it done and dated September 2013.—Maury (talk) 07:17, 2 September 2013 (UTC) ## Flowers of NZ Beeswaxcandle, this is the only way I could think of to get this image to you quickly so that it can be scanned, or typed in, or written on paper, to complete the book on the Flowers of New Zealand. It is part of the Preface. It is page #2 File:Page-002.png on WikiSource. Please delete it off WikiSource after you see or download it ASAP. Also page 4 has a small amount of missing text on the left side.—Maury (talk) 19:57, 4 September 2013 (UTC) ## It's great! Thanks a lot for this. I'll proofread it later—maybe tomorrow? (There's a strike then, i.e. no school.) :) — 12:03, 3 September 2013 (UTC) Hello, Beeswaxcandle. You have new messages at Clockery's talk page. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. ## Columns Hello again! I'm now brave enough to attempt columns, but I'm not quite doing it correctly. I've reviewed your example at Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_13.djvu/114, and have reviewed the Help section on tables and columns. I think I understand the basics now, but still have a few problems. I'm working now on Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_10.djvu/292. The three columns of numbers weren't lining up correctly when I tried to leave them in one column (as you did on the other page). For example, the 5 lined up under the 4 instead of the 1 above. What do you think about my solution? Was there an easier way? The bigger problem was the following paragraph. Until I added all of the breaks, it jumped up to the empty space to the left of the table. I checked and double-checked the table end code, and it looks right to me. I shouldn't have to add breaks, right? What did I do wrong? Thank you as always for your help! Susan Susanarb (talk) 17:01, 4 September 2013 (UTC) OK. I've had a play in User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox4. The first problem is to do with the space used and the fact that the shillings column only had one digit in the total. I've set it with a special space called Figure space. This quite an arcane way of fixing it, and your three columns is fine. For me though the line is broken up into the three columns. See the second table for a workaround for that. The following paragraph problem is because a right (or left) aligned table is "floated" to allow text to wrap around it. The solution is to either centre tables or allow them to default left without floating. On a different matter, I note that for McCulla you've been using M'Culla. The easy way to get the Mc to behave is to use template {{Mc}}. Have fun, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:18, 5 September 2013 (UTC) Thank you! I'll start playing with columns again. I've been concerned about the M'Culla thing. The problem is that the printer of the Swift volume used that character many times, and it so looked more like an apostrophe than a C to me, that I went with the apostrophe. That's a long way of saying that the apostrophe will appear throughout not only this section of this volume, but in other volumes as well. Is there a way to quickly search through a volume for a word or character to find all of those instances? I'm happy to fix them all, but I really don't want to read through thousands of pages to find them. Susan Susanarb (talk) 15:04, 5 September 2013 (UTC) ## Page:Ante-Nicene Fathers volume 1.djvu/115 The Epistle of Barnabas Just a short note to say that you forgot to insert the Greek characters on this page and could you do so ASAP. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 12:53, 6 September 2013 (UTC) I did so, added δικαίωμα (not sure why it has to be done by Bees). ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:14, 6 September 2013 (UTC) ## Table of Contents Problem Twice in one week -- do I have a limit on how often I can ask for help? I'm working on the transclusion of volume 13 of Swift: Index:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_13.djvu. This volume (as are volumes 11 and 12) is a collection of letters, each listed in the 6-page table of contents. When I edit the Volume 13 page to add the table of contents pages, it shows an error that we have exceeded the limit. I have added in pages 7-10 of the TOC, but when I try to add the next two pages (pages 11 and 12), I get the error. What do we do now? Since sending the above, I've done the volume 12 page, and it had no trouble accepting all 6 pages of the TOC. I still don't know why the volume 13 page has a problem. Thank you for helping, as always! Susan Susanarb (talk) 18:47, 6 September 2013 (UTC) You can ask as many questions as you like. I got side-tracked today into music, so am only now looking at this. The TOC for vol 13 is behaving for me. Did you sort it out? Or is this a browser difference? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:06, 7 September 2013 (UTC) Susanarb and Beeswaxcandle, just to let you two know, as a backup answer, I also looked and Susanarb's TOCS look perfect. I use a Firefox browers on Windows XP. —Maury (talk) 07:17, 7 September 2013 (UTC) Yep, that's what I'm using too, but Susan is using Internet Explorer and it may have a different template expansion limit. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:19, 7 September 2013 (UTC) I wish I could see what you are both seeing. I am using IE, but when I visited that page just now, it was fine, but it only had the first four pages listed in the TOC section. I entered the last two pages and saved it (neither of you added the pages and saved it that way?), and got the error again. This keeps me from seeing any of the pages that need proofreading, in addition to not seeing the TOC on the right of the page. I guess I'll switch to Firefox for this volume. Susan Susanarb (talk) 01:41, 8 September 2013 (UTC) I did just switch to Firefox, and still have the same error. Here is the page again: Index:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_13.djvu -- maybe this time you two will see the error too. I'll work on another volume until you see this one. Susan Susanarb (talk) 01:44, 8 September 2013 (UTC) Ah-ha! I was looking at the TOC in the Mainspace where it's OK. It's just on the Index page where there is an overflow of the number of templates needing to be rendered. Vols. 11 & 12 are fine because the templated links to the individual letters haven't been created yet. The only way around this for Vol 13 is to convert the templates to an explicit table rather than the implicit one hiding behind the TOC templates. I'll have a play shortly. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:18, 8 September 2013 (UTC) Thank you! After you have figured it out for volume 13, I can fix 11 and 12 in the same way. Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:32, 8 September 2013 (UTC) All done. Although you still need to do the disambiguation for the multiple letters "from" or "to" the same people. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:30, 8 September 2013 (UTC) I'm not sure what you did to fix it. I saw that you moved some of the codes from the Mainspace to the header and footer -- is that all that was needed? I'm going to need to do it the same way for the other two volumes. And yes, I've been trying to figure out what will be necessary for the transclusion of all of these letters. Not only are there duplicates of sender-recipient combinations, but sometimes they appear on the same page. Can you think of another similar work that has already been done so I have an example to follow? Finally, I sometimes look at the Swift Author page for information. I see that some of his works have already been added through other means. Some of the works listed show that they are not created yet, although they do exist in the volumes that I'm reading. For example, all of his sermons are in volume 10. Should I link the works on the Author page to the works in the volumes, or will someone else worry about all of that? And should I be creating Author pages for those in these volumes where needed, or will someone else do that too? Perhaps after everything is validated? Thank you again! Susan Susanarb (talk) 04:33, 8 September 2013 (UTC) ## /* La Musica es muy bonita */ "Face To Face With The Mexicans" 2. My fatherland is dear, but I too left it; Far am I from the spot where I was born; Cheerless is life, fierce storms of joy bereft it; Made me an exile lifelong and forlorn. Come then to me, sweet feathered pilgrim stranger; Oh! let me clasp thee to my loving breast, And list thy warbling low, secure from danger. Unwonted tears bringing relief and rest. 2. Dejé tambien mi patria idolatrada, Esa mansion que me miró nacer; Mi Vida es hoy errante y angustiada, Y ya no puedo á mi mansion volver. Ah! ven, querida amable peregrina; Mi corazon al tuyo estrechare, Oiré tu canto tierna golondrina, Recordaré mi patria, y luego lloraré. Two. Sweet moments Parsaron already. . . . ! And the Orange witness our There are still Who like them could say Evidence provided always record To the death! Adela mia! From your scorn, From your fickleness, No more rush The bitter gall. With your touch, With your love, With your tenderness, Make me happy, Make me happy. 3 But if the contempt Your face beautiful No sweet tables And passionate What I saw before: A los Naranjos And its blossoms, tender complaint the heart Will sing. Adela. Adela! Come back to me You know you love Adela. Adela! Come back to me You know you love my heart With frenzy. Mine is always What am your And with your love Make me happy, Make me happy. —Maury (talk) 06:13, 7 September 2013 (UTC) ## Custom edit toolbar Hi. I remembered that you have/had issues with the user defined edit toolbar buttons. My need is the quick insertion of some extended ANSI covering English ligatures and French & German accented characters. However, it's very possible that our needs are different but if you have this issue, I found an acceptable solution to the problem. I posted a note in the Scriptorium and you may have missed it and if you need the solution, I am happy to oblige. — Ineuw talk 22:14, 7 September 2013 (UTC) ## Page:How to Write Music.djvu/23 In an attempt to understand at least the rudiments of the Score extension, I've begun a little work on the easier bits in Index:How to Write Music.djvu. But, for some reason, this page doesn't look quite right to me. Could you please check it? Thanks— 16:48, 8 September 2013 (UTC) I'm discovering that things that look nice and easy aren't always. Because this snippet starts with an up-beat we need to add in a \partial command. To make the last note have the beginning of a tie, we need a spacer note in the next bar. The portato sign is set here over the bar line. There are a couple ways of managing this, the easiest is to use the rehearsal mark command \mark. How does all this translate? <score> { \time 3/4 \key d \major \partial 4 \relative e'' { e4 ~ \mark \markup { \musicglyph #"scripts.dportato" } | e2 e,4 ~ \mark \markup { \musicglyph #"scripts.dportato" } | e2 a4( | s4) } }</score>  Or: Have fun, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:47, 8 September 2013 (UTC) I didn't see this till today, it was buried under others in my watchlist. I don't say I understood all the commands you used, but that will come with practice (hopefully :). Thanks a lot… :) — 10:57, 15 September 2013 (UTC) ## British Ships ( illustrated ) The Clipper Ship Era & The History of Yachting by the same author. Beeswaxcandle, I was wondering if you know that the same author, Author:Arthur Hamilton Clark, did both books, The Clipper Ship Era and The History of Yachting. I was wondering if you would transclude The History of Yachting. I think that perhaps, this second is better than the The Clipper Ship Era and is almost done--or certainly ready for transclusion so we can navigate at least navigate the oldest of the British ships better than a row-boat in the dark until transclusion. Don't let the word "Yachting" fool you. Those are grand British ships starting around the 1600s and the book, like The Clipper Ship Era is heavily illustrated. Cheerio, --Maury (talk) 05:07, 9 September 2013 (UTC) The Clipper Ship Era The Witch of the Waves {{shift left|"Then here's a health to the hands that wrought her, And three times three to the mind that thought her For thought's the impulse, work's the way That brings all Salem here to-day. Two {{shift left| are showing. One above the other. —Maury (talk) 05:44, 9 September 2013 (UTC) Whoops. That's worth 100 lines of "I must terminate all my templates" or maybe "If a template is started, it must be ended". Any way fixed. I'm just looking at the TOC for Yachting so that I can understand the structure of it before transcluding. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:51, 9 September 2013 (UTC) In the book, the author writes a good amount about Matthew Fontaine Maury and "all [nations] co-operating and assisting this great scientist in his noble work." He mentioned Hamburg, Germany. There was a bust of Matthew Fontaine Maury in Hamburg long ago. I have an image of that bust (and of MFM after his death placed in a coffin and covered with his medals in the Virginia Military Institute's Library) Anyhow, a USN Captain and kinsman was in Hamburg after World War II. He asked about that particular bust of MFM and was told that the "American's had bombed it along with the rest of Hamburg." Well, that makes the original photo more valuable. Life is indeed ironic and often amusing. —Maury (talk) 06:59, 9 September 2013 (UTC) All transcluded (except the list of illustrations as that's not ready yet), my friend. A question arising from The Clipper Ship Era: When a ship's dimensions are given as "length 190 feet, breadth 39 feet, depth 22 feet with 30 inches dead-rise at half floor", what does "dead-rise at half floor" mean? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:58, 9 September 2013 (UTC) http://www.answers.com/topic/dead-rise (naval architecture) The vertical distance between the bottom of a vessel's keel and the intersection of a line drawn along the bottom of a vessel's midship section with a vertical line tangent to the widest part of the underwater body. Also known as rise of bottom; rise of ["floor"? "deck"!]. —Maury (talk) 09:41, 9 September 2013 (UTC) ## Transcluding Letters I've been looking for examples of letters to see how others have handled the indexing and naming. I have yet to find a large collection of letters such as we have with the multiple volumes of Swift's letters. So I'm guessing that I'm free to figure it out for myself. Is that a good guess? Or do you have any ideas or suggestions on how to do it? Also, I'm wondering how works get connected to Author pages. It seems to me that it would be logical to create such a link at the same time that I'm transcluding each letter. Does someone else do those links to Author pages? I've read a bit in the Help files, but I'm not sure that I have enough knowledge to do it on my own yet. But, I can figure it out eventually, I'm sure, if I need to. Should I, and do you have any suggestions for me? Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:22, 11 September 2013 (UTC) I can't think of any other similar project, so you get to set the direction. For the links from the letters to the Author pages, just put the Author's name in the Author field of the header. If the Author is a redlink, then the Author page will need to be created. This sometimes takes a little research for dates (birth and death years) (see WS:STYLE#Author pages for guidance), but the Wikipedia articles often help with this information. The format I suggest for the letters is to do something similar to the Tracts for the Times section on Author:John Henry Newman. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC) Thank you! Let the fun begin! Susan Susanarb (talk) 18:19, 11 September 2013 (UTC) ## /* Native Flowers Of New Zealand (1888) */ Beeswaxcandle, remember the650 book we communicated about so long ago?

"The native flowers of New Zealand. Illustrated in colours in the best style of modern chromo-litho art, from drawings coloured to nature, by Mrs. Charles Hetley."

Well, it is in the Internet Archives oven cooking as of moments ago. I know that it took a long time but there was much to do. Removing all watermarks was the least of it. We'll have the entire book with images as soon as it is finished cooking. Cheer up, man, rations will be issued again in a few days. —Maury (talk) 13:29, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Beeswaxcandle. You have new messages at Ineuw's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Done Hi. Your project Index:Native Flowers of New Zealand.djvu has been uploaded and linked. While the idea of eliminating the blank pages was a worthy idea, in practice it wasn't a good one. It would have required me to recalculate the page number positions some 170 times, after each page removal, something I wasn't going to spend time on since they won't show on the main namespace. The images will be uploaded by tomorrow. Good luck. — Ineuw talk 04:11, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Beeswaxcandle, the flower images uploaded to Commons are not good. It is nobody's fault. Internet Archives processed them that way. Ineuw cannot work with what Ineuw does not have. He does not have quality images from the .PDF file processed on Internet Archives. I have stated to you that they look like they have skid-marks, or aberrations of some sort. The original files do not have them and are clean as far as that aberration goes. The files were all kept in .pdf format to keep any text layer. I did not know Ineuw was going to upload the images of the flowers to Commons. He did so too fast and ended up with all gray-scale images. He then corrected with the color images that he had. I e-mailed Ineuw with the "missing images". Notice the difference in their clarity. Those are now placed in the project but the rest remain with aberrations. If you want that book to look like the original with beautiful flowers and no aberrations then all other previous images will need to be replaced. They need to be the original flower images such as those I e-mailed to Ineuw. I see the differences but perhaps you fellows don't or can't but you can compare what was placed on the project before the "missing images" were placed there. Please look at the difference in the images. There is also a very ornate front cover that I have e-mailed to Ineuw. I had thought I would be uploading all images but Ineuw is very fast in what he does and had declared where he would place the flower images on Commons. I do not care to work with the images but I do want to see better than what we have because it can be better. Ineuw is a perfectionist and he knows what I am talking about - as do you when it comes to doing better because we can do and have better. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 08:06, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
I'm very appreciative of all the work done so far. I do agree that some of the images as they currently stand could do with some adjustment. There's been some colour shift in a few of them through the IA processing too. For example, plate 8 is too pink compared with the flowers on the trees outside our windows, which are more the lilac that Hetley describes in her paragraph. Also plate 3 has lost all its colour.

I wonder if the best way forward would be to upload the images as you currently have them to the same Commons folder that Ineuw set up and then we can all get at them to make any adjustments required. The copy of Acrobat I have is v6 so probably too old to do serious image work from a pdf, so I would need jpg format, but I'm more than happy to help where I can. Is this practical? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:57, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

You want all images in .jpg uploaded to the Commons Category Ineuw created? I assume you mean all "Flower" images and not the blank pages. Correct? You would not need Adobe Acrobat when all images are in .jpg format. I have them on my computer hard drive now in several forms -- as FILE.pdf, individual pages.pdf, and as .jpg images. I think it would be best to e-mail Ineuw every flower image, one-by-one as we did earlier and let him handle what he wants to do. The images themselves have to be cleaned and straightened in some cases. Background garbage needs to be removed. Or I can upload the images and they are already named. Whatever the choice, I think this is a fun project. It's colorful and worthy of doing. I am enjoying this project. You're familiar with most of these flowers? I don't know what plate 8 is as I am typing here but I will look. Like you say, a shift in color but also other problems are in those present images.

Uploading the entire .pdf file seems to be the fastest way to handle this. We already have the former "missing images".

Hmm, Ineuw just now e-mailed me. First, I need to send him the Front Cover which at one time must have been very beautiful. It's good for the front cover of the project. It's flowers on a blue cover and gold lettering and the edges are ornate. It's almost 4:30 AM here and I need to sleep now. —Maury (talk) 09:30, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

I sent my cleaned but unfinished version of the Front cover to Ineuw and he uploaded it as is, File:Nfnz d001 cover page.jpg, but there is no cover page for the cover on the project page. —Maury (talk) 21:31, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
Beeswaxcandle, instead of uploading and downloading I decided to send all images directly to Ineuw . I have cleaned what I send, rotated when needed, &c. Ineuw will make any further changes if needed and then upload them to Commons. Therefore, Commons will end up with better images for use. I also sent the Cover and that has been uploaded and placed into the project and validated. Take a look. Later I might take the top of that image, copy it, and rotate it, and then overlay it at the bottom so that the bottom won't be truncated. It was truncated in the original and was very dirty--almost black in color. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 00:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Received all the images from Maury and will replace them later tonight & tomorrow. I was correct in that it's done by the same artists:
Leighton Brothers "Lith"
. — Ineuw talk 00:28, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
Thanks to you both. Ineuw, attributing the lithographer is quite important when dealing with 18th and 19th Century prints. Some of them used quite limited colour ranges and thus didn't faithfully reproduce the artist's intention. Also, the a combination of the date and the lithographer will also tell print experts what the chemical composition of the inks was and therefore the best of preserving and treating the prints. As a result some of ours are under UV-glass and for others the expense of such wasn't warranted. Obviously, for this electronic reproduction some of this is less important, but it will help future users assess the colour accuracy on their monitors in comparison to how it would have originally looked like on paper. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────┘
Completed whatever I could - added and verified the index links to the plate numbers. Enjoy. :-)— Ineuw talk 00:06, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

• Beeswaxcandle, I checked the Index and it looks good. All flowers are as correct as they were on HaitiTrust except one. One is white flowers on a white background which isn't a good idea to start with because they blend together. However, the image for that is still the image that came from IA but should not exist because there is a far better image with no dirty/busy background. I refer to to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Native_Flowers_of_New_Zealand.djvu/157 —Maury (talk) 03:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
• The above image (link) is now corrected. All flowers look proper. I wonder if you think this project was worth it? Will you be able to get the rest of the text on pages 2 and 4 and type it in? —Maury (talk) 19:07, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

## Governor of New Zealand

Beez, can you please give me the date on the following? "...present Governor of New Zealand, Lord Onslow..." Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 22:47, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

w:William Onslow, 4th Earl of Onslow was Governor from 2 May 1889 to 25 February 1892. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:31, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

## More Transcluding Questions

I've found that there are about 1000 letters in 6 of the Swift volumes. Obviously, I want to go through the transclusion just once. I need more answers before I can really get started. So here goes:

1. I have quite a few authors who don't have Author Pages. I think I understand how to create the pages -- at least I have enough info to get them started after reading the Help pages. However, I don't see any way to start the process: to create a new Edit page where I can create the page. Is there a Create an Author Page button somewhere?

2. Some of the authors do not have entries in Wikipedia, and are not mentioned in the letters, footnotes, or Life of Swift contained in the Swift volumes. Is it okay to create an Author Page with just the first name, last name, and era?

3. I have found that transclusion sometimes needs to be done in the correct order -- generally from the volume index instead of clicking on the Next Work button while looking at the previous work -- or the works do not register as being complete from the volume index. Now I'm concerned that the work isn't recognized in the Autor page unless the work is created from the Author page link to the work. For example, all of Swift's sermons (volume 10) have been transcluded, but I can't access the scanned versions from the Swift author page now matter how I edit anything. So now I'm wondering if we have to create the Author Page, including all works, before transcluding the from the Author page. Or is there some way to link completed works to the Author Pages?

4. Many of these letters start in the middle of a page, and sometimes parts of 3 letters are on a page. Obviously, I have to create sections to use in the transclusions. I've had help from others, some who use section names as simple as "S1", and some who use complex names like "From John Gay 1719-05-01". As I said, there are about 1000 letters, so I'd like to use just S1 and S2 for each page. Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea?

5. While most authors will have just a few letters, and therefore the list of works in the Author Page will be short, others will have dozens, and Swift will have hundreds. When there are so many, do we still want them all to show on the Author Page? Or should a separate page be created to contain the list? And if so, how do I create that separate page?

6. I have been thinking about the copyright notice. For Swift, it's pretty easy, as it is PD-old. Obviously, I should put it on the Volume page. Should it also go on the page for each section within each volume? Should it be attached to the Index page for the major works, like Gulliver's Travels, and each letter, sermon, and essay?

I must confess that there are times when I wish I had found a very simple novel the day I clicked on the Random Transcription link. Sigh. Thank you for helping me with all of my questions. Susan Susanarb (talk) 00:41, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Just think, at the end of this you'll have a lot of knowledge about how WS works and be ready to tackle almost anything else with insouciance. Taking your questions in order:
1. After creating the first transclusion page for a letter from a new author, you should have a redlink on the author's name in the header. Clicking on the redlink will take you to a blank edit page in the Author: namespace. If you've got the preload header gadget turned on (the first in the Editing Tools section of Gadgets in Preferences), you'll get a partly filled in header including dates from Wikipedia if the name is the same as the article there.
2. It is better to have the Author: page with only a few facts on it, than to have a redlink. As other editors come across the page, they'll add the information that they know or can find. Remember, this is a wiki, you don't have to do it all yourself.
3. There's very little automation in creating links. We have to do most of it ourselves, including adding them to the Author: pages.
4. I sometimes use the "s1" method and sometimes use the more descriptive method. It depends on the work and its complexity. In a simple novel like Barchester Towers, I just use S1 & S2 when chapter change in the middle of a page. In other works, such as A Dictionary of Music and Musicians when there are several articles on each page, I'm using quite detailed section names (that are also the name of the article in the mainspace) so that other editors who come along behind me will be able to determine exactly what belongs with what. Ultimately, it's your choice, but for the letters' volumes I would recommend that the letters that go across page-breaks have the same section name on both sides.
5. For Swift's Author page I recommend that subpages be set up for the Sermons and Letters and linked to from the main Author page. An example of this sort of thing is Author:Barack Obama. There are subpages for Letters, Proclamations, Weekly addresses, &c.
6. The copyright notice only needs to go on the mainpage for the whole work. If you want to add it to the main page for each of the 19 volumes, then fine. But you don't need to go any lower in the tree. You certainly don't need to add it to the Index or Page namespaces.
Have I missed anything? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:35, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you for all of that, but yes, I need more information about #3. I suspected that we have to do it, but HOW? Nothing I did worked to link the entry on the Author Page to the work I have transcluded. Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:15, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
We need to link to the full pathway, so for the sermon The Difficulty of Knowing one's Self. It will be [[The Works of the Rev. Jonathan Swift/Volume 10/The Difficulty of Knowing one's Self. A Sermon]]. But, because we don't necessarily want to show this complete pathway we "pipe" the link, so: [[The Works of the Rev. Jonathan Swift/Volume 10/The Difficulty of Knowing one's Self. A Sermon|The Difficulty of Knowing one's Self]], which will look like: The Difficulty of Knowing one's Self. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:28, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! That leads to one more question. Some of the works are already there -- someone put them in without a scanned text for validation. Should I replace those with the one that have scanned texts to back them up, or put in a second version, with a note that it came from a scanned text? Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:37, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Some of Swift's sermons were celebrated enough to need their own page. This is particularly so when the sermon has been linked to from other works. But, if the page we have has no scanned text, then change the page to a Redirect and point it to the copy that you're transcluding (see Help:Redirects). If the page we have does have scanned text from somewhere else, then we'll need a Versions page. See Help:Disambiguation for this. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:45, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you, thank you, thank you! At some point, I'll tell you that I'm all done and will ask you to fix everything! Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:57, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

## Missing text from images

Noticed your changing images to problematic because they are missing the artist's name. Will pull it from a legible copy and add it to the captions. I believe it's the same artist.— Ineuw talk 21:53, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

## Chapter44

Beeswaxcandle, I sent you a note about Chapter44. —Maury (talk) 20:25, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Received and responded to. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
The other book is on its way.—Maury (talk) 04:34, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

## Diving for "Coppers"

Beeswaxcandle, what is a "copper"? I have been looking through eBay at books and postcards &c regarding New Zealand and also looking at more New Zealand books on on HathiTrust. On eBay I saw an old postcard showing what appeared to kids diving from a frightful height in water that would be too shallow until I understood they were just standing in a stream and "Diving For Coppers", while the bridge above was loaded with people, adults and kids, watching them. I assume it must be similar to the American penny. A "copper" in England was called "copper" due to his copper badge and from that Americans got the word "Cop". —Maury (talk) 07:10, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Coppers were copper coins ranging in denomination from farthing to twopence. Some of the adults would have thrown them off the bridge into the stream for the kids to "dive" for. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

## Ulysses

Hallo Beeswaxcandle,

Maybe it will be better to put I, II, III here Ulysses (1922), because it is a same edition, but presented without episode divisions and titles as original stands. It is important to have original edition and it's primal contents. Vila Velebita (talk) 07:32, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Hmm. I didn't know we had this one as well as Ulysses (novel). I absolutely agree that we need a copy exactly as published. Is the text you've placed the Paris edition? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:40, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I believe it is, I have this edition for a long time, however if you think it needs cheeking or correcting please do, or if you know someone who can verify please do so. We should definitively have original editions (word by word). Thanks ahead... Vila Velebita (talk) 07:52, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
OK. At some stage we'll need to find scans that we can proofread against, but a quick look in the usual places doesn't show any that are currently available. I'll fix up the page names shortly to match our "style". Thanks, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:02, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

http://natlib.govt.nz/records/23021727?search[il][atl_free_download]=true&search[page]=2&search[path]=photos Perhaps some of these color images can be used as external links in books on en.ws like the one I am presently working on (Notes On New Zealand) which is all text and no illustrations. It would enhance the book greatly. There are images of all areas of life including sheep-shearing. What do you think? —Maury (talk) 08:06, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

While the NatLib has many interesting images, I'm reluctant to include them into works that aren't illustrated with those particular images. I believe that doing so would go against our policy on annotations. Unless, of course, we want to host a second annotated copy with notes and images that explain things. I have to say that, to me, it would be odd to need an illustration of sheep-shearing as it's such a routine thing. But then, NZ does hold the Golden Shears competition every year and I spent time on a high-country sheep station in my younger days. Mustering the woolly things with no brains from the back of a horse that just wanted to go home and not go between that cliff and that particular thorn bush was an "interesting" way to spend a week of holiday several summers in a row. Particularly as I also had charge of some younger teenagers riding horses for the first time. Inevitably, someone would get on the wrong side of the mob, the sheep would scatter in several directions, lambs would lose their mothers, and we'd have to start again. Ah, happy memories. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:44, 21 September 2013 (UTC)
The book, Notes On New Zealand covers many things with sheep-sheering being only one of many short subjects -- a brief "Note" as the book title indicates. While sheep-shearing may be a common thing there it certainly isn't here. I have never seen sheep-shearing except once on television much less chasing them on horseback which I have never seen nor even heard of. These items on rabbits, horses and many things of New Zealand are about a far away place for the people of the world which is what we are dealing with. I would just use them as links not download them and insert them into the book although you do have an intriguing idea there. I have never heard of "Golden Shears" either. My mother's people were farmers going back to the American Revolutionary war and Four brothers in that war were given vast acres of land as payment for military service. They all settled close and worked together. Down through the generations including me and some cousins who inherited parcels of that land none of them or us ever had any sheep. They raised many farm animals but beef was raised instead of sheep, crops were grown, a steam engine at one of the streams was used to make boards of trees they cut down and the logs were "snaked" through the woods bu chains and horses. Then they worked as carpenters building mostly churches and bridges. Farmers have to know many trades. Children old enough actually tended to the crops. Sheep eat the grass to the roots as I understand the "range wars" of the Old West" whereas cattle don't destroy the grass by eating it down to the roots. There was hatred between cattle men and sheep herders and barbed wire fences. To see sheep here in Texas, well, I have seen none, we have longhorn steers and beef cattle. But more so to see sheep in Virginia in 50 years I have never seen sheep-sheering much less a contest on it--except on television. All places have their means of survival and not all are the same and those who are destitute do not have a good means of survival. Angus beef, red or black are popular in Virginia and my kin are heavily into that--the raising and selling and genetics of it. These beeves are worth a small fortune each. Hamburger is popular in the USA but it is beef and not ham. Ham is popular too. Hamburger is so named because it came to the USA from Hamburg Germany. Frankfurters (hot dogs) came from Frankfort, Germany. But sheep, although it exists as food here, is not as commonly eaten by us commoners even though we do have veal. Some of my Saudi Arabia friends that I ate with would even cook the head, crack the skull of the sheep open, and eat the brain. They waste nothing having been poor and nomadic in their past before the finding of crude oil. Ah, happy memories. —Maury (talk) 09:42, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

## Transcluding Swift Letters

Hello! I've been away for a few days, and am now returning to the letters of Jonathan Swift. I believe that I have a good plan for the letters, and will be working on them steadily until they are done. Would you mind taking a look at how I did the index for volume 11? It's at Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_11.djvu/7. The real question I have, though, is something that I've noticed when transcluding the first letter: The_Works_of_Rev._Jonathan_Swift/Volume_11/From_Jonathan_Swift_to_John_Kendall_-_1. Even though the coding for the Works of Swift is identical to the coding I used for transclusion in volumes 1, 2, 6, and 10, it doesn't work. Also, the coding for Volume 11 is the same (with the number changed) as the coding I used in the other volumes. Why won't it point to the Volume 11 page like it does for the other volumes? I am stumped (I know, that's easy to do -- but not as easy as it used to be!). Thank you again for your help. Susan Susanarb (talk) 17:43, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for delay, real life keeps getting in the way. I've validated page 7. Looks good to me. I've amended the links as they were causing your other problem. You'd missed "the" in the middle of the name of the work and, of course, copied to all the others on the page. Not sure if the other pages of the TOC need fixing as well, but I'll leave that to you. I've moved the five letters you've already created to the fuller name and they seem to be behaving now. Have fun, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:26, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! I will fix the links, and continue on! Susan Susanarb (talk) 14:44, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

## A barnstar for you!

 The Bees Barnstar I hereby award you the Bees Barnstar for your tireless help and encouragement to new editors. Virgil writes of bees: "Their little bodies lodge a mighty soul." (Georgics, IV, l. 83.) (I don't know what he wrote about wax or candles.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 14:18, 23 September 2013 (UTC) Thanks for this --SajjadF (talk) 22:22, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Uh. "SajjadF" added this barnstar to his WP userpage. And I don't think he is you. ~ DanielTom (talk) 20:52, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

## text-indent question

Hi Bees. I tried using the {{text-indent}} template (and the {{PageLayout}} as well) to indent the first line of every paragraph here, but without success. I'm probably missing something very basic. I used "non-breaking space" to achieve the same effect, but could you perhaps show me how to properly format the page? Thanks ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:20, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

(I see now User:Clockery helping to edit the page, so my question remains merely as a curiosity.) ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:23, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
Hi Daniel, Help:Beginner's guide to typography tells us not to routinely indent the first line of paragraphs. On the odd occasion that you need to do it, you'll need to use a CSS style of "text-indent:" in a div (not a span). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:55, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
I see, that's clear enough. Thanks ~ DanielTom (talk) 12:53, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

## Notes On New Zealand

Beeswaxcandle, I hope that you have some time to transclude the book, Notes On New Zealand. I got this book and brought it here and transcribed it solely for you and that is the only reason it exists as it does now. The Flowers of New Zealand was part of the same idea. I found both books at the same time and en.ws had nothing completed on "New Zealand". However, it does now. They both were my way of showing you appreciation for the work you do. Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 03:56, 25 September 2013 (UTC)

Done . I note that the chapter headings and some of the sub-headings have been variously set. I don't expect to have time to get to fixing these before Sunday afternoon, so if someone else gets to them before then, I'd appreciate it. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:58, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
Well done, Beeswaxcandle. Also, I do not presently plan to bring any more books here and cause you or anyone else to do the transclusions or any other work. I feel guilty about it and I dislike begging. It's very depressing. I love transcribing and especially working with images and helping others but that's about it for me if I even do much more of that. I am losing my inspiration and drive on en.ws after many years. Vaya con Dios, mi amigo. —Maury (talk) 19:57, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Hi, Beeswaxcandle. Could you please format these two pages (A History of Mathematics (1893).djvu/12 and A History of Mathematics (1893).djvu/13)? I'd have done it myself, but my knowledge of formatting tables is practically non-existent, and these two pages look very complicated (indented text, &c.). Thanks,— 15:19, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Sure. However, I need some idea of how the work will be structured in the mainspace. What will be on subpages? Will there be sub-subpages (or even sub-sub-subpages)? e.g. will the section on The Greeks be split to Geometry and Arithmetic, or will these just be sections on the Greek page? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:46, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
We-e-ll, the subpages might be "Antiquity", "Middle Ages", etc. and the sub-subpages might be "The Babylonians", "The Egyptians", etc. I don't think sub-sub-subpages are required (or are they?). Anchors might be enough. Thanks,— 10:36, 28 September 2013 (UTC)
The sub-pages are "Introduction", "Antiquity", "Middle Ages", etc., as Clockery says. The rest of the text flows from these, but even if the sub-section titles are in the middle of the text, there should be a way to wikilink to them in the Index. ~ DanielTom (talk) 16:08, 5 October 2013 (UTC) P.S. There should be a wider space between the chapters and the page numbers in the index.
Just letting you guys know I've had a stab at making the changes DanielTom has suggested (at lease as I understand them.) I may have gone a bit "over the top", as I've assumed every section expands into its own individual chapter, e.g. A History of Mathematics/MODERN EUROPE/Euler, Lagrange, and Laplace/The Origin of Modern Geometry. If this is too much, please feel free to (re)amalgamate chunks. 101.161.175.157 22:01, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I completely forgot about this request. It looks good to me. Thanks, 101... for sorting it. My personal instinct suggests that 3 levels is enough and you don't need the fourth level, but if four levels is needed, then that's fine. We try to not go beyond four if we can avoid it. I would also suggest that the sections in allcaps are changed to title case. This makes it easier for links from outside this work to link to it.

Daniel, with respect to wikilinking from the index to a title partway through a page, Clockery is on the mark with anchors. Check out A treasury of war poetry, British and American poems of the world war, 1914-1919, where anchors have been extensively used. Each of the sections (England, Scotland, …) has its own sub-page, with all the poems in the section running one after the other. However, clicking on any of the poem titles will take you to the beginning of the poem. In the Page: namespace each poem title is marked with {{anchor|poem_name}}. Then, in the TOC the link is to the section and anchor, with a # sign between the section and anchor. So [[A History of Mathematics/Modern Europe/Euler, Lagrange, and Laplace#The Origin of Modern Geometry]] would link to an anchor called {{anchor|The Origin of Modern Geometry}}, that would be transcluded to [[A History of Mathematics/Modern Europe/Euler, Lagrange, and Laplace]] from the Page that has the heading "The Origin of Modern Geometry" on it.

If I haven't made sense nudge me and I'll set it up for you. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:38, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

@Bees: Thanks for the explanation; the example you gave is very good (and clear). DanielTom (talk) 10:48, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

## Multiple Authors

There sure are a lot of details involved in transclusion! I've found another small problem that I cannot see how to solve. I have several letters that were written by more than one person. I tried just putting two author lines in the Create screen, but only the second one shows up. Here is a sample: The Works of the Rev. Jonathan Swift/Volume 11/From Narcissus Marsh and William King to John Hartstonge - 1. How do I insert more than one author?

A side issue to that question is demonstrated here. I found Wikipedia articles for the first two authors of this letter, Marsh and King. I cannot positively identify the other four signers of the letter. The names they used are simply the names of their cathedrals. For example, Narcissus Marsh was the Bishop of Armagh. I've searched Wikipedia for the identities of the other four signers, but with no results. Is it okay to attribute this letter to only the two authors I can identify?

Thank you as always for your help. Susan Susanarb (talk) 01:53, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

We use the override_author = field in these circumstances. I've done this one to show you how it works. I've also taken the liberty of not linking the authors, but just lumping them together. However, W. Cassel is w:William Palliser (bishop), W. Meath is w:William Moreton, W. Kildare is w:Wellbore Ellis (bishop), and WM. Killala is w:William Lloyd (bishop). I found them by looking at the articles for the bishoprics and then working out who was bishop at the time of the letter. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:16, 29 September 2013 (UTC)
Thank you! Susan Susanarb (talk) 13:33, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

## Anonymous Author

Hello again! Just when I start to think that I've learned all there is to know about proofreading and transclusion, I find something new. Here is the latest: unknown authorship. One of the letters included in the Swift volumes (Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_12.djvu/413) is a letter supposedly signed by Jonathan Swift and sent to Queen Caroline, the wife of George II of Great Britain. It is clear that Alexander Pope sent it to Swift, so at first I assumed that Pope wrote it as a joke or satire. But further letters make it clear that Pope did not write it, and that it was one of three letters presented to the Queen on the same topic. The editor of the biography in volume 1 assumes that the letter was written by Sir Robert Walpole or someone else at his request.

I've looked through the Help topics, and don't find any reference to anonymous works. Should I create an author page for this letter? If so, what name should I use -- something like Swift Counterfeiter? Or is there already created for such works? I don't see an author page for Anonymous or Unknown. I guess if someone wants to read all of the letters, they will find it by reading the volume, but it is the start of an interesting string of letters, so I don't want to leave it there if there is a good alternative.

Thank you for your help, as always. Susan Susanarb (talk) 03:07, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

You are venturing into areas that I haven't had to think about. We do have Portal:Anonymous texts and its associated Category:Anonymous texts. However, I'm not sure that these really cover what needs to happen here. I'll check with Hesperian and ResidentScholar and see what they think. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:17, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
Author:Anonymous links to Portal:Anonymous texts. But we don't have a category for ghost-written texts. Albert Einstein to Franklin D. Roosevelt - August 2, 1939 is an example of a ghost-written text. U. S. Presidential speeches are often ghost-written, but we usually don't know by whom. But in both cases they are placed on the author page of the person who requests the ghost-writing. If Susan wants to go the extra mile she can place it on Portal:Anonymous texts as well. ResScholar (talk) 22:19, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
I would feel better about putting this on Swift's author page if he had wanted this letter to be written. On the contrary, this letter was written to embarrass him, and almost led to his arrest and imprisonment for treason. (This was the early 18th century, and the times were not that far removed from the overthrow of the King.) May I add to the link a statement that this letter was written in Swift's name, but was not authorized or approved by him? Susan Susanarb (talk) 23:00, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
I think I would put it on Swift's page as a subsection "Falsely attributed to Swift" under section "Works about Swift". Or something like that. And perhaps the anonymous texts portal and category too. Hesperian 02:14, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
Good idea. Thanks. Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:33, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

## Source Tab

Hello! Here's something that is suddenly odd -- the Source tab has been disappearing in the transcluded work. I can adjust by opening another tab in Internet Explorer, but why has it disappeared? I checked in another work that was transcluded weeks ago. When I opened one of the chapters, the Source tab appeared. But after I clicked on the Edit tab, and then canceled the edit to return to the chapter, the Source tab disappeared again. Do you know what's happening? Susan Susanarb (talk) 17:24, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

It seems to be back again -- odd. Susan Susanarb (talk) 18:49, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

## I am old but may learn quickly

I must apologize because I am old and am the only person I know of my age who uses a computer for anything besides email. I love to write and began editing Wikipedia articles. I am writing the biography of a Dead Poet and wanted to add to his Wikipedia entry in case I die before I finish his story. It has taken much work locating his poetry and I would like to put more poems in this Wikisource place. But the directions are written in Elvish or Klingon, it seems to me. I can figure some things out, but after spending a couple hours not navigating the FireSwamp correctly, I need help. But pretty much everything you said to me in your greeting blew right past me, and I don't know any ten year olds to consult. I have been to "the teahouse" and learned there are many who wish to contribute to the Wikipedia and associated projects who have obviously never read a Wikipedia entry (or a book), but they'd probably be able to upload a poem. If I have a template with which to work, I can do it. If there are fifteen steps, I will be eaten by the Rodents of Unusual Size along the way. And I don't know if I'm posting in the right place, and it may take me a couple days to find your answer. :) KathrynHKlos2 (talk) 02:55, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

## Translations

Hello! Here's another interesting situation. Volume 13 of Swift's works contains several English translations of letters written in French, all of which appear in volumes 11 and 12. The translations each have a footnote containing the location of the original letter, so I can easily make links of those references. However, none of the original French texts have links to the translations, and I'd like to add them somehow. I've read the Help sections on translations and multilanguage texts, and I don't see one that covers this topic. Do you have any suggestions?

There's something else that may complicate the links. There are 6 translations of letters in the earlier volumes. However, they are indexed in one group as "Translations of the French letters in this work." I've created a separate section for each of the 6 letters anyway, so I can still link to the section, right? I'm still working on the coding for the transclusions (I do all the work in Excel and Word, then paste the finished product into Wikisource -- this lets me copy, paste, and sort easily), so you won't see any of the work there yet. But do you see any problems with this?

Also, I have seen how to add the translator to the transclusion header, so the translated letter will appear on the author pages for both the letter writer and the translator. I'm not entirely sure who the translator is, though: least two different editors could be involved. There is an excellent summary of the various editions of the collected works in this chapter: The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift/Volume_2/General_Preface. I'm not sure this helps though. First, it's not clear that the volume numbers remain the same from edition to edition. I tend to think that Thomas Sheridan was the editor who included the translations in the 13th volume, but it could be John Nichols or some other editor instead. Second, the editor was not necessarily the translator of the letters, and nothing documents the name of the translator anywhere in the translations. With this uncertainty, should I even include the translator in the transclusion header? If I do, should I indicate the translator to be Thomas Sheridan, John Nichols, or Unknown?

Thank you again for being there for the tough questions! Susan Susanarb (talk) 21:00, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you! Susan Susanarb (talk) 18:26, 17 October 2013 (UTC)
I wish I could say I had some insight, but I am afraid it is beyond my ken as well. I'll keep an eye on the situation though, if only to learn myself. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:16, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
Do you have an example of one of these letters (both English and French, if possible)? In the meantime: You should be able to put the link in the notes field of the header template. Entering the translator as "unknown" seems the best choice in this case. It can always be changed later when or if more information is found (there is also an "editor" field in the header template, if you want to use that). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 12:49, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
Thank you all. I've finished with the seven translations. The first starts here: From Jean le Clerc to Joseph Addison - 1 (Translation). Five more follow (use the Next links), then a letter in French, then the last of the translations. I hope you all like what I've done. Susan Susanarb (talk) 03:12, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

## Works Missing From Index

Here's another thorny situation: works in the volume that are missing from the index. Here is a link to the problem index page: Swift Volume 13, Page 12. Everything is fine until we get to the last three entries. The first, the Translation of Letters, is a group of six letters written by four different authors to five recipients. Obviously, I want to create a separate work for each.

The next entry to the last entry in the index is the letter from Lady Bolingbroke (Marie St. John). That one is actually two letters, the original in French followed by the English translation. Following the example of the others, I want to make this two separate works, although this particular group would be easy enough to treat as one work because it has the same author (putting aside for the moment the issue of the unknown translator).

The last entry is the Advertisement. While it is odd that this is included in the volume with letters (it appears to have been published as a pamphlet or in a newspaper, and it doesn't relate to matters included in any of the letters), that is not the problem. The problem is that between the letters from Lady Bolingbroke and the Advertisement is an unlisted letter from Voltaire to Charles Jean-Baptiste Fleuriau, the Comte de Morville. The letter is in English, and discusses Swift. It is a brief letter, starting on page 470 and ending on page 471 of the volume.

So, I have three questions:

1. How do I ungroup the six translations into six individual works? Just through the various author pages, and not worry about trying to get them into the volume index?
2. Should I combine the two Lady Bolingbroke letters into one, or separate them using the same method you will recommend for the first question?
3. How do I include the letter missing from the index with the volume contents? Again, I can create the letter through Voltaire's author page, but that doesn't get the letter into the volume contents where it belongs.

Thank you again for your help! I'm confident that if you don't know the answers, you will know someone who does, and that is just as good! Susan Susanarb (talk) 18:45, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Here's what I did: I separated all of these letters into different sections. Then I transcluded each letter separately, linking them together with the Next and Previous links. Each of the letters is also referenced through the Author pages.
I did not try to include the missing works in the Index. The three final works in the Index point to the group of six translations, the French letter of Marie St. John (Lady Bolingbroke), and the Swift Advertisement. The English translation of St. John's letter and the new Voltaire letter don't exist in the Index. That still troubles me, although, those can be found through the author pages and following the Next and Previous links. If you have another idea for putting them into the index so they will appear on the Volume page (The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift/Volume_13), I'd love to hear it. Susan Susanarb (talk) 03:22, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
Sorry for delay. Real life is paying me too much attention and I keep forgetting to respond when I do have a chance. A way to include the Voltaire letter on the Volume 13 page would be to use {{Auxiliary Table of Contents}} after the transcluded list. I know I've seen them both used together on a mainspace page recently, but I can't remember which one so that you can see an example. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:32, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
But what about the contract that requires you to offer me immediate help? Oh, that's right -- there isn't one! Your help is always worth waiting for. Thank you for the info about the Auxiliary TOC -- I'll add it right away! Susan Susanarb (talk) 16:45, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

## Index:The Solar System - Six Lectures - Lowell.djvu

I've noted a few issues as I'd given this a second pass.

I'd appreciate a third set of eyes on this ( particularly for catching things like mismatched sidenotes tags and so on) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:07, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

## Scriptorium 5.8

Quoted: Its a result of a recent "drop-out" related to caching & css the best that I can figure. A purge or two (maybe three) of your various browser/page caches should restore the status colors back to normal. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:32, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, Beeswaxcandle, for pointing out the solution to my Colors question. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 03:40, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

## International Guide to Greater Lansing

Hi Beeswaxcandle,

You recently left a message on my talk page (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/User_talk:Kches16414). I realize that you mentioned to reply on my own talk page, but I'm extremely new to editing Wikipedia/Wikisource and don't know how to complete this function correctly.

Anyway, in regard to the "International Guide to Greater Lansing" being copyrighted, I'm actually one of the guidebook developers. This document is an interesting testament to the internationalization of Lansing, and I was trying to cite it in the Wikipedia page for Lansing, but it's not hosted anywhere on the web.

Does the branch director of the Red Cross need to reach out to Wikipedia or something of that nature? It's copyrighted so that people correctly attribute the work, but it is a resource document meant for broad, free distribution.

If Wikipedia/Wikisource simply doesn't work with any document bearing a copyright, that's fine; I just wanted to clarify on this issue.

Thank you,

-Kches16414

There is a way around our copyright restrictions. The commons:OTRS process needs to be followed. I know it looks a bit daunting, but it's the best way. The best person to contact the OTRS team is the copyright holder, which would probably be the branch director as you suggest. However, do check with the state office or the national head office as there may already be a policy in place. Because they are a team of volunteers the process does take time with quite a long queue of files waiting to be dealt with. In the submission to the queue state that the file will be used on English Wikisource. Once the permission is processed, the file can be hosted on Commons, which is our preferred state. With respect to citing on Wikipedia, I personally see no problem with cites to works that are only in print copies. However, do be careful about the conflict of interest policy. Editors citing themselves is a grey area. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:53, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the info - it was helpful and informative! -Kches16414

## More Policy Questions

Hello again! I have more questions that are choices to be made, and I'm not sure what the official policy is.

1. Many of the letters and poems in the Swift volumes are undated. Sometimes I can figure out the year the work was written from surrounding works, but sometimes not. However, I can always determine a range of dates. For example, poems and letters written by Jonathan Swift must be written between the dates of his birth and death. Is it preferred to have Year: Unknown, or to give an approximate range of years? And, if I should give a range, how? I have seen and used c. for a single date, as when a person's year of birth is not known for sure. Is it okay to use it for a range?
2. Some of the works in the Swift volumes are written by persons identified only by a last name. I have created author pages for them, and in the Description, mentioned that the person wrote a letter to Jonathan Swift. I also list the person in the alphabetic author lists with just the last name and an inital if known, or a Mr. or Dr. if not. Is there a better way to do this?
3. A related issue is what to do with a clear alias. One of the letters was written by Pickle Herring, clearly intended to hide the identity of the author, and the editor did not offer even a suggestion as to who it was. I created an author page for Pickle Herring, as I did not want to simply put the work in the Anonymous list, because someone may have heard about the letter by Pickle Herring. Do you agree, or is there a better way of handling it?
4. Some of the poems are in a definite series of 2-5 poems. For example, one will be called Paulus, and Epigram, and the next will be called The Answer. These poems are usually written by different people. I can refer to the related poems in the header Note -- is that enough? Is there a convention for gathering all of the poems on one page?
5. Should entries on an Author's Works be alphabetical? Or should they be roughly chronological? Or does it depend on the type of work? I left all of the letters to and from Swift in chronological order. However, I can see that an alphabetical arrangement might be helpful too. But with the poetry, it seems to me that an alphabetical order makes more sense. I have looked at quite a few author pages now, and I don't see a definite pattern.

Thank you again for all of your help! Susan Susanarb (talk) 03:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Hmm, interesting questions. I'll do my best.
1. Check out the documentation for {{header}}. Adam's programmed a few ways of dealing with approximate dates into the header. If you need something else, check with him to see what he's able to do. (It's to do with the works getting into the right date categories.)
2. Your approach to part names is just fine. If, and when, someone finds more detail the Author: page gets moved to the name with more detail and a redirect is left from the shorter version.
3. Similarly with the pseudonymous works. An author page should be created for the pseudonym. It will either be a redirect to the author's real name (if known), or will be the pseudonym itself.
4. Check with Londonjackbooks on what she's done with situations like this. My own instincts suggest that separate but linked pages would be the best. However, there may well be good reasons to transclude them to a single page.
5. Currently the style guide suggests that alphabetic order is preferred. However, I agree that for a correspondence section date order would be the most appropriate, while the poetry section of an author's page is best arranged alphabetically. For authors who have substantial poetry contributions that have been published in various collections have been handled in various ways. Check out LJB's opus magnum Author:Florence Earle Coates for one example. As a couple of counter examples have a look at Author:Emily Dickinson and Author:Howard Phillips Lovecraft.
Whatever you decide on, keep having fun, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:05, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
4. In this case, I too would opt for keeping the pages separate. Brief notes and pointers can be made in the header, and the poems will naturally follow one another in Mainspace navigation as visitors read. Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:55, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Thank you both! I'm glad to have my instincts confirmed. Susan Susanarb (talk) 16:37, 25 October 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Beeswaxcandle, I was hoping to show the author the location of the text I was using. My apologies if that was not conveyed. Will leave the topic unanswered.

## Odd Change

I just received an email alert that one of the pages I proofread has been changed by an anonymous user. That seemed odd, since most of the users changing my work have names, so I investigated. I found that the person created a link of the word "avocation". Is this something that should be kept? Here is a link to the changed page: Page:The_Works_of_the_Rev._Jonathan_Swift,_Volume_11.djvu/204 Thank you for your help. Susan Susanarb (talk) 01:36, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you for fixing it! Susan Susanarb (talk) 02:24, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
I should ask -- is this the sort of thing that I should be reporting? I could have easily removed the change, but I wasn't sure if there was a purpose for it. It seemed pretty random though. Susan Susanarb (talk) 03:01, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
In this case, it was part of a wider issue. But, this is a wiki, feel free to poke, prod or adjust as you see fit (within the bounds of our guidelines). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:10, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
What I meant was -- does someone in charge want to know about this sort of thing? Or is it something that the someone in charge will discover without my help? Susanarb (talk) 04:00, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
Umm, there's no-one "in charge" here. There are some community members who are trusted by the community to be given a few extra tools that help with maintenance. We get called "Administrators", but none of us are in charge. There's a few of us (admins and non-admins) who patrol the Recent changes and we pick up most oddities. However, some of them we'll just leave as they don't do any harm and don't break the established convetions of enWS. If you find vandalism that you can't revert, then let the administrators know by posting at the Administrators' Noticeboard. It's on our watchlists. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:12, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
Perfect -- thank you! Susanarb (talk) 04:23, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

## Wikisource:Proofread of the Month ||| Oct.= All Hallow's Eve & Nov.= Thanksgiving & Dec. = Christmas

Beeswaxcandle, where are the hand-out and earned icons for "Proofread of the Month" of October 2013? October has always been Spooky Halloween Special. November is for Thanksgiving. You are leaving out two of the year's best holidays. (I hope there is a Christmas this year, Christ & Santa.) —Maury (talk) 03:56, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

I've been pre-occupied with re-validating a stack of pages from all over the place. I find manipulation of money spooky enough with the need for extra ghouls and poltergeists. November is the month for celebrating Guy Fawkes and his attempt to blow up the houses of parliament with King James I/V in them. Having missed Christmas last year through being ill, I hope to be able to fully celebrate it this year. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:15, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
I also hope that you are well this Christmas good fellow. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 12:49, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

## More Questions!

Just when I think I've seen everything . . . .

Please take a look at this page: Page:The Works of the Rev. Jonathan Swift, Volume 8.djvu/413. The footnote contains a footnote. I tried putting the <ref></ref> within the footnote, but got an error message. I decided to just put the second within brackets. Do you have a better solution?

There is a second page soon after with a different problem: Page:The Works of the Rev. Jonathan Swift, Volume 8.djvu/419. In the last paragraph are several words in italics. Most are no problem, but a couple start with an apostrophe. When I leave the apostrophe in, everything turns bold. In the end, I put the nowiki code around the apostrophe, but that seems a bit clunky. Is that the best way to do it?

Thank you again for your help. Susan Susanarb (talk) 06:48, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

These ones I know what to do with. Wikiware doesn't let us have ordinary footnotes within footnotes, but we can use the old way of doing footnotes, using Ref and Note templates. I've done this one for you so you can see how it works. There are a few examples in The History of England (Froude) but I don't remember which chapters.

For the apostrophe I use the template {{'}} in just this situation.

Have fun, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:35, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Perfect, thanks! Susan Susanarb (talk) 17:08, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

## Autopatroller: Thank you for this!

<cue characterisation="Sgt. Wilson/Dad's Army">Ah, Do you really feel that was wise, Sir?</cue>

Whee! Some poor sod thinks I've got a clue. Now whatever shall I do?

I wish I always shared such optimism.

Thank you. I hope not to betray your trust.

Regards, Viewer2 (talk) 11:44, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

## Idea for Wikisource - Partnership with Google Cultural Institute to create virtual museums for documents on Wikisource

I've just received an idea for Wikisource from an Admin I know at wikia:Biblicalapedia by the name of User:Superdadsuper. He says 'Wikisource, perhaps can partner with Google (this might need input from the Wikimedia board) with the Google Cultural Institute to create virtual museums pertaining to documents on Wikisource. This can allow multiple museums to be created or even better Wikimedia with the help of donations or sponsors can start actual museums on various topics using information from Wikipedia, Wikisource, Commons and all the Wikimedia projects'. He would like to be involved as much as possible and can be contacted on his Message Wall at Biblicalapedia or Superdadsuper@gmail.com. This has also been posted on Billinghurst talk page and Scriptorium. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 06:46, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

## Talkback

Hello, Beeswaxcandle. You have new messages at Clockery's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Clockery Fairfeld (talk) 06:47, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

## Wikisource:Scriptorium#Idea for Wikisource - Partnership with Google Cultural Institute to create virtual museums for documents on Wikisource

Could you please bring the above to the attention of User_talk:Billinghurst and User_talk:Beeswaxcandle. I've also put the above on their talk pages. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 20:01, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

—Maury (talk) 20:11, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

## welcome

Thank you for the welcome! I'm afraid I need quite a bit of help if I am to contribute anything. I have attempted to proof the "Dictionary of Slang" (p.12), but I'm sure I did not use the "smaller" text template correctly. Can you instruct me?

I am not Beeswaxcandle but here is a tip for running headers.
• (1) You can use rh instead of typing in or using that long "Running Header" which leaves you more space to place a long page title in.

## aspect Q

Most of the time, when I load this page, the text appears centralized, but other times it is formatted all on the left. How does it appear to you? (How is it supposed to appear?) ~ DanielTom (talk) 09:26, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

It's all on the left for me (and in a san-serif font) because I have Layout 1 by default. If you see it centered in a serif font, then you're seeing it with Layout 2. The layout you're presented with is based on the last one you had. See the discussion at WS:S#Fixed page width. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:17, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Most interesting, thanks. ~ DanielTom (talk) 13:07, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

## Publisher of Divorce of Catherine of Aragon

Why does the publisher and city of publication listed at Index:Divorce of Catherine of Aragon.djvu not match the title page? ResScholar (talk) 15:25, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

I hadn't noticed I'd done that. The main series which this is a supplement to is the London edition, and I think I just copied that stuff across when I uploaded to Commons. I've fixed it in both places. Thanks for picking it up. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:11, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

## POTM on Main Page needs updating

POTM on the Main Page needs updating as it's now December and the Index:Association Football and How to Play It (1908) by John Cameron.djvu has not been Proofread. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 13:34, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

I already know how to play football - including in the snow. :0) —Maury (talk) 15:43, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

## Combining Works

Another question (it's been a while, and I've left you in peace for far too long): I going back through the Swift volumes to add links to the various works mentioned (not all of which have been transcluded or proofread yet) and Wikipedia articles. Some of the references in the history of Swift in Volume 1 are to letters which are quoted, but have very few other hints as to which letter is meant. Other letters are identified by the send or recipient, and sometimes by date, but that can still leave multiple letters to review before finding the correct letter. Because I have a quote, I can easily search each letter to identify the right one, but there hundreds of letters already done, and many more still to be done. I'd like to create a temporary work which combines all of the letters in a volume, such as volume 13, into one large work. This would definitely make searching for the right letter much quicker. Is there a process for creating such temporary compliations? I have great hopes. Susan Susanarb (talk) 00:29, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Hi Susan, the best way to create temporary pages is in your user space. Then you can try things out and see if they work, &c. A standard naming is User:Susanarb/Sandbox. You can replace the "Sandbox" part with anything that's meaningful to you. I've got a series of these currently called Sandbox1 through to Sandbox5, that I use to try things out in. When I've done with them, I just overwrite with the next thing I need to play with. I've got a couple of others that are intended to be a little more permanent, so I've use more meaningful names such as /Works & /End of page notes. If you just want to use sandbox then click on the redlink in this paragraph and create it. Once you've created it then transclude the whole volume into that page (or at least the pages of interest). Don't worry about the section markers as you don't want those. So from=13 to=484 for Vol. 13 should do it. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:10, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

## Mexico of the Mexicans

Beeswaxcandle, in this book that I recently started, Mexico of the Mexicans, there are side notes that I have seen when validating one or more of your books. Therefore you obviously know how to handle these things but I don't. I have done some of them but differently by placing [Them within brackets] at the beginning of the text. I think that either way they can be transcluded. Would you tale a look, please, and let me know what to do with the situation. I like the book a lot but these sidenotes are very annoying as I don't know what to do with them which is why I am doing different. Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 10:01, 6 December 2013 (UTC)