User talk:Jimregan

From Wikisource
Jump to: navigation, search

Welcome[edit]

Welcome

Hello, Jimregan, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Carl Spitzweg 021-detail.jpg

You may be interested in participating in

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{CotW}} to your page for current wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your IP address (or username if you're logged in) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 05:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Nice work[edit]

Hi Jimreagan. I noticed your work on Konrad Wallenrod and I must say you seem to have picked the Wikisource way up very quickly indeed! Very neat-looking!

I have taken the liberty of block-centring the first two pages of the poem, as this makes it easier when transcluding (notice how the "end" template is in the page footer, so it isn't transcluded - this means it will all go in the same block and the left margin will line up nicely). You can also apply the block-centre from the main namespace if you prefer. I prefer to do it in the Page: namespace, as it provides separation between formatting and display, but in the end it is up to you as the main editor on the work.

You can find some useful helper scripts at User:Inductiveload/Regexp toolbar.js. Particularly helpful should you decide to do it that way is the "blockcentermid()" function which will put a black centre start and end in your header and footer in one click. Additionally, the "cleanup()" script will sort out the spaces before punctuation and a few common OCR errors. You can see more about how that script is pulled in at User:Inductiveload/common.js.

If you want help with anything, just leave a message here, or come to my talk page. Welcome to Wikisource! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 05:45, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Sonnets from the Crimea[edit]

Hi, I've just validated this work for you. I've simplified a few things and thought I'd drop you a brief note about them.

  • The {{Center}} template covers multiple lines and so doesn't need to be repeated for each line unlike the italics.
  • The block center /s and /e templates only need to be used when a poem goes over a page break. I've simplified them all to just using {{block center}} around each sonnet. This also means that we don't need to use the block center templates on the transclusion pages.
  • The {{}} template is one of my bugbears. The spaces it puts in on either side of the em-dash do not show up consistently on various browsers/computers as hairspaces (on the laptop I'm using at the moment they're showing up as em-spaces). Also the spaces act as 'breaking spaces'. This means that a line of text could potentially begin with an em-dash—something that should never happen in books (newspapers get away with it because of their narrow columns).

Now that the work is finished please feel free to put it up on the list of newly added works on the Mainpage. You do this by editing {{New texts}} and adding {{new texts/item|Sonnets from the Crimea|Adam Mickiewicz|1917}} to the top section and moving the oldest one in that section to the top of the second section. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 00:13, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Fantastic work of completing a book already! One more thing is that a "direct" transclusion such as {{Page:Sonnets.djvu/34}} is better done by the special "pages" tag (not template), as this allows multiple page ranges, section transcluding, add page links (edit: with automatic page numbering based on the index page numbering) in the left margin, permits dynamic layouts and adds a progress par to the top of the mainspace page to show the proofreading status. This would be done here by: <pages index="Sonnets.djvu" from=34 to=34/>. You can read more at H:SIDE. Cheers, Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 18:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I was kind of cheating with that one - I had already proofread it for Project Gutenberg - but I figured it would be easier than Wallenrod was, so it'd be better to practice with. I think I used 'pages' on Wallenrod, or at least most of it. -- Jimregan (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
Hi. Yep, it was really fast. Sorry if I jump in … I noticed that these Sonnets are also listed as individual works in Author:Adam Mickiewicz, either as blue links (I redirected one from an already existing page to avoid duplication) or as redlinks. It would be worthwhile to take a further step in improving the author's page, maybe creating redirects for now, to be converted to disambig pages if further translations will arrive in the future. Bye --Mpaa (talk) 19:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I was thinking more of removing those links, actually. There's something lacking about those sonnets as translations, but (IIRC) there is no other translation that's in the public domain. -- Jimregan (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I am not an expert in the field. I just noticed that 1) they map to the work you have worked on and 2) they were already present there (also as stand alone page, see the history of The Ackerman Steppe). Just do what you think is best then :-) --Mpaa (talk) 20:36, 30 January 2012 (UTC)
I'm not an expert either, I just happen to have read the originals and disliked the translation :) As it happens, a lot of results turn up for this translation (which may be a direct result of having posted it to Project Gutenberg, because I remember it being difficult to track down before that) so maybe it's best to use it. -- Jimregan (talk) 01:45, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Translation[edit]

I note you worked on some machine translation software.

For my next project I was considering transcribing an old collection of Statutes relating to Wales.

The work is in English, but there is no theoretical reason why it couldn't be translated.

This got me thinking. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:38, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I work on Apertium (which is being used in trials for the translation extension for Wikipedia), which is rule-based, but I'm also familiar with statistical MT. In general, MT would work better for statutes than it would for literature -- the language tends to be more regular, and for SMT in particular, the majority of existing (commonly available) bilingual corpora come from the legal domain (various Hansards, the EU data, etc.), so it would be a good fit. Is Welsh your target language? -- Jimregan (talk) 00:15, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Welsh would be the target., the work in question being :- Index:The statutes of Wales (1908).djvu when transcribed.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:59, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
Longer term it would be nice (with the asisstance of actual Cymraeg (Welsh) speakers, and Welsh contributors to Wikipedia.) extant British legislation with specfic application to Wales, but which was passed prior to the Act which required bilingual versions (sometime around 1981 or so I think)ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:59, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
I took a look. Some of the text is in an older variant of English, so there would be some adaptation required ("doth" for "does" and the like); on the other hand, older variants of English are probably easier to translate from ("from which to translate" is much easier to render in most other European languages than "to translate from" :). Apertium has a Welsh to English translator, so the majority of the data is in place. At the most abstract level, Welsh grammar is very similar to Irish (en: adjective + noun = cy: noun + adjective), so I think I could get the basics covered unaided.
Domain adaption in Apertium is something I'm very interested in, and something that will be more and more important if it's used in Wikimedia projects. This would make a good practical exercise in adding Apertium data in Mediawiki, which is something I've spent some time on, though there are still details to iron out (though enough that I had written quite a long braindump before thinking it better not to inundate you with the details :) -- Jimregan (talk) 22:55, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Plodding along behind[edit]

I plan to step through and validate the Kosciusko work, while I do other things, and won't be as quick as you, with it. When we get things validated, remind to ping User:Phe, and we will ask him to run his index conversion tool through and make the page number links active to the respective chapters/pages.

With the index, it is worthwhile adding invisible A-Z {{anchor}}s at each heading stage, and then we can add something like {{TOC}} or one of the other TOC templates into the notes section of the Index,to provide section links. I would also suggest that we don't use multiple columns in the index, and instead just do a singular column. We need it to be useful on tablet devices, and other things without large screens, and columns unfortunately fail miserably, especially with a longer scroll page. This is definitely not the case of follow the book religiously, and it is what I have done with many indices.

Finally, congrats on the work, a job well done. Do not forget to add it to Template:New texts, so it displays on the main page. If any questions, you can {{ping}} me here, or knock at my talk page. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Addendum. Generally we would name chapters 1, 2, 3, ... n, rather than by title and we decided on this pattern as generally this is the way that works are referenced, by chapter or page, it allows for future-proofing of wikilinks. There is some guidance at Wikisource:Naming conventions. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: - thanks for the feedback! I've moved the chapters, and updated the links, and dumped the columns. The index is a little more difficult, because they aren't references to sections or headings, just to pages where each individual is mentioned. Also, one of the items (for Kościuszko himself) spans several pages - should I just leave the '...continued' parts, or is there something else I can do there? -- Jimregan (talk) 08:39, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Worse, it lists places where people are merely alluded to; e.g., p.71 is listed in the index for Rzewuski, Branicki, and Potocki, and the only part of the text that would seem to apply is "She had in her hand a minority of Polish nobles who had no mind to part with their inordinate..." -- Jimregan (talk) 08:56, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
smiley That a work was indexed is actually enough for us to do the effort. They are good for google searches, and lead people quite well, that it is an alluded reference is not an issue for us, we just fixed up the work. I can have a go at the index pages when I validate, or if you want to give it a hack, you can look to judicious use of <noinclude> tags to that you can get a nice join and hide what are typographer's remnants due to pagination. It is a trick that I use to join pages in ToC and in index pages. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:34, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Ok, sold. I wanted to put in Wikipedia links anyway, now I guess they'll be more extensive :) I tried using <noinclude>, but because I've got {{outdent}} on individual paragraphs, they didn't join in the index page. -- Jimregan (talk) 10:56, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Try {{hanging indent inherit}} which is pretty flexible, if it becomes a pain, I can use our regex gadget to undertake the replacement easily — billinghurst sDrewth 12:25, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Or you take a moment and build {{outdent/s}} {{outdent/e}} pair along the lines of the {{smaller block/s}} {{smaller block/e}} pair. Thee are open and close templates, rather than complete in themselves. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:32, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: I took the latter option. Should I copy {{smaller block/span}} to {{outblock/span}}, or would a redirect work? -- Jimregan (talk) 13:18, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
No need to copy it. That is just help text, which you can transclude 'as is' into documentation due to its use of magic words and it should work as required. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:53, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Oh dear, I didn't explain myself well re index pages. I had meant that we put anchors onto the pages of the index pages {{anchor|A}} {{anchor|B}} {{anchor|C}} so someone can quick navigate that page. Apologies for being insufficiently clear. When we transclude, each left margin page number in a chapter is already an anchor which we can reference from the index pages. So Phe's tool will wikilink the index pages to link to the page refs in each chapter. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

An example of what I have done previously The Life of Captain Matthew Flinders, R.N./Index, and I should have provided that earlier. billinghurst sDrewth 23:55, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: No, my bad. I had it in mind to have page-level links from the index, I just didn't know if there was a better way of doing it (than adding <a name> everwhere). Will the anchors I've added interfere with the tool? -- Jimregan (talk) 00:10, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
No, anchors won't impact unless they are duplicate, then it will find the first. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Does it involve more than just {{CompactTOCalpha}}? (i.e., the anchors won't interfere?) -- Jimregan (talk) 00:12, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Up to 26 anchors (A-Z) in Page:ns, (and note that the template can take multiple parameters (so I always do A-Z)). Then the template in the notes field in main ns:, and 'voila!' done. Re our help pages, which you may or may not have read, if the did read them, then suggestions or edits of what we missed are helpful. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:21, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: I removed all the anchors and links, aside from the page links in the index, the alphabet anchors, and the "X: see Y" style parts of the index. I hadn't seen the policy on links, and though there doesn't seem to be clear consensus, a few items do seem to be set, which I hadn't followed, and it was simpler to remove everything than to waste time sorting through them. -- Jimregan (talk) 13:17, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

I am nearly through. Something that I have seen through parts of the book is where other books are quoted, and it can be a little harder to identify these when just reading through. What I have done with some other works, is to considered using {{quote}} (or {{quote/s}} pair) to wrap the quoted components. While it is not used in the initial typography, it can be useful in a web output. It is your work, so I mention it, and leave you to think about it. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:41, 10 October 2014 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

Thanks for your formatting help with 2007 Testimony by Jimmy Wales to United States Senate, much appreciated. -- Cirt (talk) 17:19, 7 October 2014 (UTC)