User talk:Erutuon

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Again, welcome! — billinghurst sDrewth 22:51, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

lang template

The {{lang}} template on Wikisource is not enabled to deal with Ancient Greek. We typically use {{polytonic}}. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:40, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: All right, I'll use that instead. Erutuon (talk) 19:56, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm not sure how much work you do on Wiktionary, but The Vocabulary of Menander might be of interest. It is a doctoral thesis which specifically looks at words or senses appearing in the works / fragments of Menander which do not appear in LSJ. All words are cited extensively. It is therefore value added to that voluminous work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:59, 22 December 2017 (UTC)

Do you think it would be possible to import Wiktionary templates such as "m" here? "[[wikt:Ἀθῆναι|{{polytonic|Ἀθῆναι}}]]" is heavy syntax, it would be much easier to only have to type "{{m|grc|Ἀθῆναι}}" and be redirected to the relevant wiktionary article. Pinging @EncycloPetey: as well. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 20:07, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

That's a rather over-complicated template for what we do here. A simpler version might be useful, but I'm not the person to ask. @Billinghurst: or @George Orwell III: would know better regarding the technical issues. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:13, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Yes, for one, the transliteration function would be unnecessary. --Per utramque cavernam (talk) 20:16, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

BTW, you do know we have a template {{wikt}}, so {{polytonic|{{wikt|Ἀθῆναι}}}}, giving Ἀθῆναι, is possible syntax. Alternatively, we could add optional functionality to the {{polytonic}} template to link to the appropriate grc section on Wiktionary. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:17, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: I like the idea of adding a parameter to {{polytonic}}. Maybe even the second parameter: {{polytonic|Ἀθήνας|Ἀθῆναι}} → <span ...>[[wikt:Ἀθῆναι#Ancient Greek|Ἀθήνας]]</span>. First it would be good to determine if that parameter is already used anywhere. (But that would not be convenient when the entry name is the same as the link text.) Erutuon (talk) 20:52, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

It could be simpler than that. Such as adding a dummy 2nd parameter whose presence triggers activation of the link. Of a definite value of a new parameter "wikt=1" or "3=y" or something. It need not be a duplicate of the entry word, unless we want a functionality to display one word and link to a different one (such as a lemma form). --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:00, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: It would work to use a Latin letter or a digit (y, 1) in the second parameter to trigger linking. There wouldn't be any ambiguity, because those character sets aren't used in Ancient Greek. So {{polytonic|Ἀθῆναι|y}} or {{polytonic|Ἀθῆναι|1}} for [[wikt:Ἀθῆναι#Ancient Greek|Ἀθῆναι]] and {{polytonic|Ἀθήνας|Ἀθῆναι}} for [[wikt:Ἀθῆναι#Ancient Greek|Ἀθήνας]] would work in the same implementation. (I'm omitting the HTML for the sake of conciseness.) But something like {{polytonic|Ἀθῆναι|wikt=1}} and {{polytonic|Ἀθήνας|wikt=Ἀθῆναι}} would be clearer, because it suggests "This will produce a link to Wiktionary". Unfortunately, that adds a few extra characters. Erutuon (talk) 06:57, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

@Per utramque cavernam: Importing the whole functionality of wikt:Template:m (which involves wikt:Module:links, wikt:Module:script utilities, wikt:Module:languages, wikt:Module:scripts, and other modules) would be a lot of work, and really much of it is not needed. I made a reduced version at w:Template:wikt-lang (w:Module:Language) some time ago. I imagine that a template that simply validates the Wiktionary language code and links to the appropriate section, while adding language tagging, might not be terribly hard, as it would just require a code-to-canonical-name module (or a huge "switch" template). But right-to-left script recognition, to avoid weird text direction problems, and generating the correct entry names, to allow automating linking of Latin or Greek words with macrons or breves, or Arabic words with diacritics, would add complexity. Erutuon (talk) 20:52, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

•  Comment I haven't seen the use case for the linking to wiktionary for this case, so just want to check where we are with respect to both Wikisource:Wikilinks and Wikisource:Annotations.

  wikt:template:m looks like a sizeable investment and complex in itself, so I wouldn't think that is the direction desired unless we are moving in a broader direction to that sort of implementation. If we do judge that there is value in wiktionary links in this case, then a parameter from within polytonic does seem the means to progress, though I would think that we should consider whether it should be {{wikt}}, or one of the variations {{wg}}, so that it is trackable. To also note that in other situations where we think that having the understanding local rather than following a link, that we have used {{tooltip}} to add that understanding. So we need to come back to the value for the reader proposition. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:24, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

  Addendum, do also note that we do have "Wiktionary Hover" gadget which gives functionality like what you desire. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:27, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

  @Billinghurst: See examples of links to Wiktionary on page 8 of the scan of The grammar of Dionysios Thrax, the text that Per utramque cavernam and I are entering Greek words into.

  I think what's being proposed is an approximation of the bare minimum of what wikt:Template:m generates: a language-tagged link to that language's section section of the word's Wiktionary entry. For Ancient Greek, it would look something like <span lang="grc">[[wikt:ἀνάγνωσις#Ancient Greek|ἀνάγνωσις]]</span> or [[wikt:ἀνάγνωσις#Ancient Greek|<span lang="grc">ἀνάγνωσις</span>]]. (Inline CSS, specifying fonts, could also be added.)

  The parenthesized annotations (transliteration, gloss, gender, etc.) that are often added by wikt:Template:m would not be appropriate for this text (there are no annotations in the scan), and I imagine they would usually not be on Wikisource. The script classes that are added by wikt:Template:m are also not applicable, since Wikisource doesn't use script classes. Erutuon (talk) 06:57, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

  With regard to font we generally don't push a font, we prefer to let the reader choose theirs, similarly for size you will see us use relative size. Noting that the template forces a font family per {{polytonic fonts}}. I have made the change to {{polytonic}} which now just requires some sort of second parameter, and anything will do, though suggest you do something like yes/y/wikt. It puts a link to the text in the first parameter, and it looks for the anchor Ancient Greek om the target page; documentation updated. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:46, 24 December 2017 (UTC)