User talk:Londonjackbooks/Archive 2010

Archive 2010

html

Saw your comment at Billinghurst's page. I've noticed later Gutenberg has richly formatted pages, you can also look at the source code there for some ideas. Regards, Cygnis insignis (talk) 17:28, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Great, I'll take a look! So far I have found this, but have not played around with it yet... Apparently it seems to be more difficult for IE? Thanks for the Gutenberg tip! Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:53, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

George H Earle, Jr

Thanks very much for the drive-by assistance at Aspen Hill Maryland Wiki!

I did find some refs for you and linked them in, so the page may be fairly well completed in terms of references. However, the reference I added shows that my source for the deeds was at "Maryland Land Records" (a Maryland State Archive project) and that direct links won't work; the researcher needs a (free) account at that site. So, I just point them at that site; individual pages regaring Mr Earle's properties in Aspen Hill all have Liber/Folio deed references associated with them and the MLR site will call them directly with book/page data input on entry forms. You have to work with two browser windows but it will get what you need. Many thanks, [1]. 173.66.162.14 14:23, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thank YOU! I recently started researching Mr. Earle (whose sister is my favorite poet), and have become quite fascinated by his "business sense"! We could use a man like him these days to work out all our present economic difficulties! :) I was glad to find some added information about him on the Aspen Hill Maryland Wiki site! Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:32, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

A book completed

I just completed Florence Earle Coates' book of poetry, Poems (1898), here on Wikisource, and was wondering if I might be able to turn it into a "project." I have not worked on any WS projects before, but I thought I might be able to get my feet wet with my own "pet project." I have downloaded page images from the book that I scanned from my first edition copy/reference to Wiki Commons. Any suggestions for a beginner are welcomed! Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Anything can potentially be a project, and when we get into Wikisource:WikiProjects generally we are looking to share it with others with similar interests. So yes, is the answer. We have a rotation of active projects, and if you were looking to be part of that little promotional activity, then add something to that talk page will help me construct a banner. If you were looking for help with DjVu files, then I would recommend knocking on Matt's talk page as he loves the back of house activities of image building.

Re the book, if you have completed a work, then please look to the instructions at {{new texts}} as you should be announcing the work. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:31, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Populated the index file

Index:Florence Earle Coates Poems (1898)

Generally we would take the jpg files and convert them to a .djvu. — billinghurst sDrewth 16:13, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I actually know how to do that online! I'll look into it in a bit... Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

formatting and the page ns

I fiddled with the pages transcluded at Poems (1898)/Combatants, this stops the empty line appearing in the middle of stanza. There may be a better way (I don't use the poem tag), the 'noinclude' header and footer is the trick. These are accessible with the [+] button, the continuing page heading can also go there. Suggested only, changing or reverting my edits is okay, esp. as you are being so conscientious.

Btw, the categories would go at the main page, I put them at the redirect or versions page to give a shorter title.

I'm very impressed with your careful attention to the poet, you have come up wtih some interesting solutions. Regards, Cygnis insignis (talk) 18:37, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

P.S. Oh!, and I used to put full spaces before punctuation, I've been convinced to do otherwise and never looked back. Cygnis insignis (talk) 18:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Why would they have formatted it like that back then? In my opinion, it looks nicer... Convince ME, and I may heed your recommendation! ;)

After reading miles of text online, I've arrived at the widely held opinion. There is a space, in older printed pages, before ; " — characters, greater than that before , . ', etc., but a smaller space than those defining word-boundaries. This is more evident in regular text, full spaces are not so sparse looking at the end of lines in stanzas. Wiki pages, and most digital transcriptions, cannot easily render these spaces, and how the text is reproduced is a concern. If a browser renders a curly quote as a straight one, the beginning and end of the quoted text doesn't parse well. The tendency in modern formats is to make everything snug, it assists legibility, just as 19C print disposed of earlier conventions in their type facsimiles. If people want that format on their screen, or in print, the scan of each page is a click away. Cygnis insignis (talk) 19:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

That's why you're the expert! I'll make the fixes (glad I haven't gotten too far into the game)! Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I will stop my current editing rampage to look over your recommendations and apply them to the pages. Much appreciated! Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:42, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Hope it helps you to rampage on :-) Cygnis insignis (talk) 18:45, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Expert!? brrr, that sent a chill: "for every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert". ;-) I've just spent a lot of time considering best practice.

You seem to have grasped the float center format, or nearly so. The template uses the same table code we've been using, but it can't work when more than one page is transcluded; it does work when we take the table elements out of the template and 'noinclude' some bits. This is the biggest hurdle to getting poems aligned our scan and transcript Page: namespace, once you get it you will become the expert :)

Don't get distracted if something isn't working, the solution is around and others are happy to provide them. We don't paid, so showing off is one of the few rewards. Enjoy, Cygnis insignis (talk) 13:52, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I found that when I use float center on the main page, i.e.:

{{float center|
{{Page|Florence Earle Coates Poems 1898 14.jpg|num=14}}
{{Page|Florence Earle Coates Poems 1898 15.jpg|num=15}}
}}

...it messes up the license alignment... So on single-page poems that don't continue on to another page, I used float center on the Page instead...

Does this:

{|align="center"
|-
|
<poem>. . .
</poem>
|} [BTW: Why is this ("|}") placed in the footer on the first page of a poem that continues to
another page, but placed in the body at the end of the poem text in subsequent pages?) 

accomplish the same thing as this:

{{float center|<poem>. . .
</poem>}}

 ? Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:07, 11 June 2010 (UTC) [OK--Rereading your input above again for the third time or so, I think you answered this question already... I just didn't "see" it the first time...]

Alright... Tell me if I'm wrong: 1. On single-page poems, I can use float center in the body of the poem; then on the main page, I would merely render:

{{Page|Florence Earle Coates Poems 1898 03.jpg|num=1}}

2. On multiple-page poems, I can use:

{|align="center"
|-
|
<poem>. . .
</poem>
|} 

and on the main page, I can write:

{{float center|{{Page|Florence Earle Coates Poems 1898 04.jpg|num=4}}
{{Page|Florence Earle Coates Poems 1898 05.jpg|num=5}}}}

So, apparently, the double use of float center is what messes up the alignment of the license info. on the main page?? Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:35, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

(1) is correct. For (2), multiple transclusions, put the format in the Page: namespace or the main-page. The effect on the main page was probably stray code. I will do an example a bit later. Cygnis insignis (talk) 15:41, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

this is an example of what I do: Poems (1898)/Alexander III. If you can make the spacing between stanzas work with the poem tag I will be impressed, I should warn you that I wasted a lot of time last year making it work. It is an elaborate and unstable bunch of work-arounds! I was strongly urged to use it, when I finally got it working the coding for it was changed and it broke everything. I went round and fixed all that and then they changed it again, I gave up and now do what I did here. Cygnis insignis (talk) 17:02, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Yikes!... Take a look at what I did with Veiled (in edit mode)... The poem breaks pages between stanzas, and all I had to do to render it that way on the main page was to place a single "break" in the body of the poem on the Page: (page) like this:

   . . . Nor guess whereunto he must go?
</br>
</poem>

It renders correctly on the Main page... Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:13, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Two more questions before I take a break:

1. If a poem has three or more pages,-- on the "middle" pages, do I continue to place the

|}

in the footer until I reach the last page (where I would then place it in the body section immediately following the text of the poem)?

2. Funny you should use "Alexander III" as an example, because I had an historical question about the poem that you might be able to answer... The last stanza of the poem in this 1898 collection is completely eliminated in the 1916 rendering of the poem. Do you have any insight (historically) as to why Mrs. Coates may have decided to leave out that last stanza in 1916?

Its ironic that the solution was some of the code <pome> was intended to replace, I'm surprised that it doesn't break it. The brightest user I know reckons its a nightmare from a coding pov.

(1) is correct, and the start of the table in the Page-header.

(2) I'd be guessing, I suppose american attitudes to the revolution complicates the sentiment expressed there. Turns out to be prophetic, Cygnis insignis (talk) 18:17, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I restored your format. Let me know when your done and, if you wish, I can mark them as 'validated' —Cygnis insignis (talk) 18:28, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I think Alexander may now be validated and laid to rest...hopefully in peace? Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:50, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

In some circumstances it may be better to apply {{smaller}} for uppercase, rather than using lowercase and the smallcaps format. cygnis insignis 16:41, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Definitely MUCH better when numbers are involved...

{{center|ALEXANDER III </br>
({{smaller|LIVADIA, NOVEMBER 1, 1894}})}}

Under normal conditions, do you recommend…

{{c|{{smaller|FABLE VIII.}} </br>
{{larger|THE GARDENER AND THE AGED TREE.}}}}

Or

{{c|{{sc|fable viii.}} </br>
{{larger|THE GARDENER AND THE AGED TREE.}}}}

Or

{{c|<small>FABLE VIII.</small> </br>
{{larger|THE GARDENER AND THE AGED TREE.}}}}

Or something else? Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:32, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

The first I think. I recommend using templates, not a mix, wherever possible; for example, our font sizing no longer accords with scaling of html and css. When using "smallcaps", very often the start of new section, one 'test' is 'does it matter that it will copy/paste as lower case'.

I think the guideline might be: If there is a mix of case in the string of letters use smallcaps, if they are all upper case use smaller.

{{center|8.

To {{small-caps|William Hayley.}}<ref>See note 2, p. 51.</ref>

{{small-caps|Lambeth}}, 6''th May'' 1800.}}

I inferred that "To" is normal text from style used elsewhere.

I once applied 'small caps' to AD in the text, but someone pointed out this would sometimes render as "ad", so I make the 'capitals smaller' instead. There are other more curious examples, let me know if you find them because this is probably worth documenting somewhere. cygnis insignis 03:38, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Conceptually

Don't get too worried about the formatting as it is just a play, but have a look at [2] and I hope that no one plays with the other template in the meanwhile. See if there is benefit in doing something with ToCs through the body of that page. If the concept is right, we might be able to think of some basis of building some options like this for long lists. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:48, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Forgive my poor terminology...but is it possible to float text on a WS page so that when you scroll down a page the text follows or "floats" along with you...? Sort of like what you can do within a Works spreadsheet for title text, e.g., that you need to remain visible for easy reference as you continue working down the spreadsheet... I copied the sandbox text (in edit mode) in case it is overwritten before I get to playing with the formatting. Thank you for doing that. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:22, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Probably doable, though always the issue is the browser interoperability (none of which is my knowledge area).

Don't get too hung up on copying that text, the reference that I gave is a permanent link to that code, and anyway it is contingent on what is in {{sandbox}} and that would always be grabbable, and nothing complex there anyway. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:16, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Take a look at this and if you think it's too crazy, I can undo it... Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:55, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

Not against the concept of the tables present the ToC, though would people know what is behind a "show"? If you are going to do it, it is probably just worth showing them, and not hiding them, especially as it is not the reproduction of a work and space is not at a premium. All that said, if you like it that way, no issue for me, my initial thought was more ToC pointers, and that seems to be a p+ve thought. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:39, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I see your point... I will work with it some more later, for I am now weary from reworking the author page (which has its own issues I'm trying to figure out)! Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:12, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Coates' Poems Vol I. (1916)

I would like to apply space-and-a-half line-height spacing for this work, but am not sure how to... or whether I should just keep lines single-spaced. Thoughts? See here for comparison. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:39, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Rename Commons file

If anyone is willing, I need a file renamed on Wikimedia Commons. I accidentally saved it with the name it is saved to on my computer, but I would like it renamed to: Coates, Florence Earle, platinum 2.jpg Thank you, Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:26, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I do that all the time. An option is for you to re-upload this small file to "new name" and add {{Bad name|new name}} to the old file. This creates a link to the better name, someone will get around to deleting it, and you can immediately make use of the file. There are commons admins here, they may notice and do it immediately, I'm too embarrassed to ask with all the mistakes I make there. cygnis insignis 15:57, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

I think I got it... If not, I may join you in the ranks of the embarrassed! Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:40, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Ha! What you've done seems right, and I see you remembered to use the better title. Usage on other wikis turns at the bottom of the files page, so that is how I double check I haven't messed that up too. cygnis insignis 19:38, 12 December 2010 (UTC)