User talk:Londonjackbooks

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"To Mr. Murray or Mr. Davison.
"Do not omit words—it is quite enough to alter or mis-spell them.


Londonjackbooks talk

Page 19 illustration (greyscale) in The Game (London).jpg

"All I know is that you feel good
in the ring."The Game (1905) by Jack London

"All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest"

from "The Boxer" by Simon & Garfunkel

Seal of the United States Marine Corps.svg

This user is a
of 27 years.

Seal of the United States Marine Corps.svg

This user is a

September 11th, 2001

...It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
          And made forlorn
          The households born
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

And in despair I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said:
          "For hate is strong,
          And mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!"

Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
"God is not dead; nor doth he sleep!
          The Wrong shall fail,
          The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good-will to men!"

—from Christmas Bells by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Wikimedia DC edit-a-thon
Arlington, VA (2018)
"Awards for participation"
Featured article star - check.svg
Proofread of the Month
November 2011

Special: Validation month
Featured article star - check.svg
Proofread of the Month
November 2012

Special: Validation month
Featured star 8.png
Proofread of the Month
January 2013

Short works (8 completed)
26 validated works
Proofread of the Month
November 2014

Special: Validation month
26 works



Do you have any suggestions of poetic works for this year's Featured Texts? We're short on nominations (and comments / reviews), and poetry is something no one has nominated. As you work more with poetry than most others here, I thought I'd see if you knew of anything validated that might be worth featuring. It does not have to be something you've personally worked on, though you might have. Anyway, just looking for something to feature as early as April or May. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:24, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: No validated works that come to mind, but I will look around... Of proofread works, if it could get validated in time, there is Poems of Gerard Manley Hopkins (1918) that I would recommend. On another note, do you know when 1923 US works become public domain? In particular for an author who died in 1993. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:19, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
P.S. Fully validated is A treasury of war poetry, British and American poems of the world war, 1914-1919. BWC did most of the validating. Not sure what happened with TOC alignment in the Main, but it used to line up... Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:25, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Also fully validated is Trees and Other Poems by Joyce Kilmer, who died in 1918 during WW1. There is a detailed WP article on his poem "Trees". Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:01, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Trees &c sounds ideal, and it was published 100 years ago, and has a WP article related to part of it. Could you do a proper nomination, and maybe draft a blurb for the main page? Or would you rather I initiated all that? The other works look promising to, although the one is yet to be validated and the other has a suspicious publication date (the title includes the date 1919, yet the date of publication is 1917?) --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I can give it a go. Few things going on in RL today to be addressed, but I will work on it between today and tomorrow. Publication date of TWP always had me confused too. There are other versions; a First Series (1914-1917) published 'October 1917' ("To all those who fight for freedom"), and a Second Series (1914-1919) with a '1919' copyright date ("To all those who died for freedom"). I own the same '1917' edition (1914-1919) that we have hosted here ("To all those who have fought for freedom"). There is another version that likely predates all others (1914-1917) published October 1917 ("To all those who fight for freedom") (not part of a 'series')Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:16, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Hmmm. . . . Might be a stuation where we have a reprint that reaffirms the copyright date without specifying the print date of the copy. I've seen that happen a few times, where the front matter gives a date for the copyright, but there are advertisements in the same volume for books published long after that date. Most often the text was reprinted from the same plates, though not always. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:31, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
I have wanted to go through each to compare contents and make note of differences on our work's Talk page for anyone that might have interest, but have yet to do so. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:39, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: I'm going to run through Trees before nominating to check for uniformity, etc. A short work, so it shouldn't take too long. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:47, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Lucretia Mott[edit]

I never ceases to amaze me how Wikisource can be missing certain important and well-known writers after all this time. Thanks for noting and adding this one. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:35, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: No problem! I just received a copy of the book listed on her author page in the mail. Mott is poet Florence Earle Coates' first cousin twice removed (her grandmother's 1st cousin). I am reading the Life and letters to gain some insight into Coates' family's views on Quakers and abolitionism. It is also Mott's birthday today. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:40, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

WWI poetry books[edit]

Hi there. I was very pleased to come across For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war. It is excellent to see this on wikisource. I came across it because I was looking for a picture of one of the poets. Along similar lines, do you know if it would be possible to put w:en:The Muse in Arms on wikisource (I am guessing it would be possible, as it is on the Internet Archive site)? I wrote that article (a long time ago now), and I am also wondering if an article on For remembrance: soldier poets who have fallen in the war would be similarly possible? Carcharoth (talk) 01:32, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

@Carcharoth: I am glad you came across the work here! I hope you found the picture you were looking for. I created a gallery of images of the soldier poets listed in the work as a tribute. You can find it here if you have not already stumbled upon it. I do believe we can host The Muse in Arms as well. I will look into the scans available at IA. If I upload and begin working on it, you are free to join in and help edit if you'd like... It would also be nice to see a related article for Remembrance at Wikipedia. I would create one myself, but am none too confident in my ability nor my grasp of history :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:07, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Think I found an adequate scan here. I just have to go through to make sure there are no missing or damaged pages. It appears as though the 1918 Stokes Co. US reprint is an exact copy of the original with no additions or updates to the work, so I'd opt for uploading the first edition unless you recommend otherwise. Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:44, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
All pages appear to be present and accounted for. I will be calling it a day soon, so can upload the work tomorrow. Just FYI, it is not my site, but if you search the web for "Behind Their Lines", you will find a blog dedicated to "lesser known poetry of the First World War" and "lost voices and faded poems". Very insightful literary criticism. Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:59, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
Many thanks for the pointer to that website. I have a question about whether and how linking is done. For example, would a link be added to en:w:Bruce Lyttelton Richmond for Page:The Muse in Arms, Osborn (ed), 1917.djvu/9? Carcharoth (talk) 01:00, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Ideally, we link to internal (Wikisource) links for authors. If we do not have one, then it is best to create one.
Also, when proofreading pages, you may notice some extra information in the header and/or footer that does not necessarily apply to the page, such as if a page number does not appear at the bottom of the page, you can delete {{center|}} etc. Feel free to ask any other questions along the way! Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:14, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Minor changes[edit]

If I make minor changes like this, should I save it and let someone else validate it? Or can I also validate at the same time? Carcharoth (talk) 01:10, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Oh, thanks for catching my oversight!! You may validate... One tip: two gaps is the same as {{gap|4em}} &c. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:14, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Am calling it a night now. Please do ping me if I seem to have forgotten about proofreading. I will try and do some pages as well, though I will avoid the ones with difficult formatting unless I have an example from you to follow. If you have not read this book before (including the introduction), there are bits I think you will like (apologies if you have read it before!). Carcharoth (talk) 01:28, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Thank you. I have not read the work before, but am familiar with many of the poems from previous works proofread here. My favorite personal contribution to Wikisource was proofreading A treasury of war poetry, British and American poems of the world war, 1914-1919. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:33, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
P.S. There have likely been some changes to formatting practices since you were last here. My own practice has evolved over the years. There are different ways to format poetry, and each contributor will find what works best for them. Apologies if I have gone ahead and implemented my formatting preference on the work ahead of you. I am open to your opinion if you find that my practice is too tedious and you wish to use some other style. Never too late to change. Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:01, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

PS. Bottom left of page xvii is a stray '2'. Do you know what that is? I will validate the page, but maybe add that in? Carcharoth (talk) 22:27, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Some links for the introduction for The Muse in Arms[edit]

Shall I create an author page for Bruce Lyttelton Richmond? Also, while proofreading the first 10 pages of the introduction, I came across the following (I link to an en-Wikipedia article if no wikisource author page), and was wondering if they should be linked (the ballads are too obscure for them to be on wikisource, it seems)?

  • Page vii - the poem 'Into Battle' (link forward to page 19 of this book), Julian Grenfell, Rudyard Kipling
    To use 'Into Battle' as an example, we have 3 versions hosted at Wikisource, all listed at the versions page Into Battle. You would wikilink to that versions page in the Intro. IF only one other version exists at Wikisource, you would want to check for a redirect page which you would then convert into a versions page listing both versions. You would then link to the versions page in the Intro. Further, if the only version at Wikisource is from The Muse in Arms, then you wait until the poem is transcribed into the Main namespace, and then create a redirect page (which you would link to), if that makes sense? Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:07, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
  • page xi - The Ballad of Chevy Chase, Philip Sidney I had no idea what 'the men in blue and the men in grey, who wrought for the great Republic of the West a baptism of blood and tears' referred to, but now I see that it is a reference to the en:w:American Civil War! That is the sort of obscure reference that cries out for a link or explanation, but I'll need to restrain myself, I think.
    Yes to linking both. Being certain "Chevy Chase" refers to the poem you linked to... I am not familiar. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:18, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

That is only the first 10 pages... Carcharoth (talk) 21:35, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

@Carcharoth: I do appreciate your thoroughness! I was strictly proofreading the Intro for content (and my own edification), and was not focused on linking at the time. Generally, any author or work that we have hosted at Wikisource can (should?) be linked to. I refrain myself from linking to external sites—even wikilinks to sister sites such as Wikipedia. It is an annotation practice that has been debated here. Please feel free to create an author page if you like. Let me know if you need me to point you to which header template to use, etc. There may be some poems, etc. inherent to the work being proofread where you would want to link to the reference within the work itself (if I am explaining things correctly) as opposed to linking to another version at Wikisource (or version page). In which case, you might wait until that section of the work has been proofread and transcribed into the Main namespace before linking. Also to note, you need only link to an author's name or work once in any section or chapter of a work. If an author is listed more than once in the Intro, for example, just link the first instance. I will now more thoroughly read through your examples above. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:53, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
P.S. Redlinking to a work not yet hosted here may serve as an incentive for a reader or contributor to add the work to Wikisource. Linking to a Wikipedia article basically removes that incentive. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:57, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
Understood. Am going to carry on proofreading (validating) the next few pages. Am happy to follow your lead. Carcharoth (talk) 22:06, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
My thinking for this work is to create Mainspace pages for each section of the work (The Mother Land, Before Action, &c.), instead of a single Mainspace page for each poem. What are your thoughts? I did the same for Treasury of War Poetry that I mentioned in a previous section. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:18, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
That sounds good. Thanks for the guidance. As I said, am following your lead here. Carcharoth (talk) 22:24, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

The very next page (xvii) threw up another interesting cross-reference: have a look at this, which is a slightly different version of the microbe analogy set in verse ('battles lost' vs 'banners tost'). I think Osborn (whose style grates after a while) made that up himself, and is not quoting anything. So probably nothing really. The bit about "less than Zulu war chants" is a good example of the attitudes held by some (many?) at the time. The references only understandable to one who had a Classics education of the time are difficult to understand. The Greek ὕβρις (hubris - I had to look it up) - would you link to en:wiktionary:ὕβρις? Is there a place I can put notes like this as I go along? Carcharoth (talk) 22:24, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I'll take a closer look at your link in a bit. I would not personally link to Wiktionary. You are free to use the Index page's corresponding Talk page for that purpose! or even the Talk page for the Index—listing any interesting notes that others can come across. I don't see harm in that :) I have to step away for a few, but will check back soon. Feel free to proofread any poems you wish. Don't have to follow my lead there! Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:33, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Acknowledgments section of The Muse in Arms[edit]

Am currently proofreading the acknowledgments section, and have done this page. Just realised I should check with you, as you might have started that (and you mentioned poems). Sorry about that. What is the best way to avoid proof-conflicting? Carcharoth (talk) 00:34, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

No apologies! I have been adding links in the Introduction. Feel free to do the Acknowledgments section... When it comes to the poems, we could agree to work on certain sections separately...? Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:38, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
RE: "Hymn of Hate" referenced on p. xvi., Connie Ruzich at "Behind Their Lines" dedicates a post on the author/poem in case you are interested. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:46, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks! Along similar lines, I found the references on page xx to en:w:Houston Chamberlain fascinating. Someone I had not heard of before. Difficult to discern the propaganda from the rhetoric at this distance in time, but in the case of (Houston) Chamberlain it seems clear (and rather sad, though so awful in consequences). Carcharoth (talk) 00:52, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
I will look into that further. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:25, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
@Carcharoth: I have added a section to the Index Talk page where you can add any notes of interest on the work that you wish. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:20, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. I will add notes and link a bit more boldly as well, but feel free to change if I go too far. I would be interested in creating some of the red-linked author pages - is that simple or quite difficult? I may also try writing an article on en-Wikipedia for one of the more obscure poets: Arthur Lewis Jenkins. There may not be enough material for an article, but I have a bit of a soft spot there as I took the photo of his grave that is in the en:w:The Muse in Arms article, and there is an article on his brother at en:w:David Jenkins, Baron Jenkins. For now, I will make a start on the list of authors (the final three pages before the poems), as the acknowledgments are done. Might need help with the formatting! Carcharoth (talk) 01:32, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Feel free to be bold! I'll give my two cents if I feel compelled ;) Author pages are not too difficult. You can follow the guidelines at Template:Author, and if you have any questions, let me know. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:41, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
Calling it a night... Happy editing, Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:01, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
I may try my hand at author pages (sorry, btw, for butting in at Billinghurst's talk page - I am following your contribs to try and learn from the edits you are making to these pages of The Muse in Arms). I see from Portal:War poetry that Ivor Gurney (1890–1937) and Edmund Blunden (1896–1974) don't have pages. Gurney's works will be out of copyright, but not Blunden's? How does that work round here? Carcharoth (talk) 16:57, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
I am not sure exactly how copyright works when it gets down to the nitty-gritty. I just know that works published 1922 or earlier are public domain in the US.RE: butting in—no issues! You provided good info. I believe it is likely "our" H. S. Graham is the author we have hosted here. But I will leave that to you (and possibly Billinghurst)? Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:58, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
P.S. I will not be at the helm the next few hours, so feel free to do any poem pages that you wish and at your leisure! Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:35, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Another book by Osborn[edit]

I found another book by Osborn. While not wanting to be distracted from the other project, I thought I'd put a note here in case you were interested. It has more images. Plus it is not just poets. The new Elizabethans, a first selection of the lives of young men who have fallen in the great war (1919). I can't find evidence that the promised second volume ever materialised. Carcharoth (talk) 17:02, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

This does look like a work I would like to one day work on. I recall there was another book I came across where a "promised second volume never materialized", but I can't recall the title... (merely thinking out loud). Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:12, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Briefly, talking of other books, starting from en:w:George Harold Baker, I went to the memorial book to him, written by John William Cunliffe, and went from there to this index page to his work Poems of the Great War, and it was very touching to see his tribute to Baker at the end of the introduction. Another work to maybe work on in the future (I will try to get back to The Muse in Arms as soon as I can). Carcharoth (talk) 01:39, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

At your leisure when it comes to editing The Muse etc. I don't think I was aware of the Cunliffe project; I went ahead and added it as a project at Portal:War poetry (Collections). Thanks for the info! Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:49, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

You may be aware of these sites already, but as thanks for pointing me towards the Behind Their Lines blog, I wanted to point you towards a couple I've come across: Great War 100 Reads and Epitaphs of the Great War. There are quite a few of these sites out there! I keep coming across them in my researches and then losing them and then finding them again... I just used the Great War 100 Reads to help with what I've been doing at en:w:George Harold Baker, which I might keep on expanding. Carcharoth (talk) 22:17, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Thank you! I wasn't aware of the Great War 100 Reads, but I follow Epitaphs on Twitter. I'll take a look at the link! Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:24, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
P.S. I may be slow-going with proofreading The Muse for right now. I am trying to finish out a couple other things here, and then I'll try to get my head in the game. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:59, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Non-maintenance maintenance[edit]

Hearing your dislike of maintenance, here is a maintenance job that isn't (well not overly).

that report shows index pages that are marked as proofread or validated, though do not have the a transclusion check template, ie. {{index transcluded}} or {{index validated date}}. So there it is running the checker tool, and adding the appropriate template with transcluded=yes or "notadv" if they pass, or adding transcluded=no. Often you can find works that are not transcluded, or pages that have been accidentally missed, which will highlight some easy gets to transclude and {{new texts}}; or sometimes quick validation completions.

Anyway, if you don't, no issue; however, if you do, you will reduce the backlog which has grown as I haven't got around to it. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:55, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I will take a look! Heads up that I may have questions (I'll try not to). Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:13, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Q1: How does one identify pages within an Index that are not transcluded? Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:25, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

I made a tool to do this: User:Inductiveload/scan transcludes.js. Add it to your user JS and there should be a tool called "Check transclusions" in the sidebar on Index: pages. Let me know if it doesn't work as you expect. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 17:37, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: To clarify, do I create User:Londonjackbooks/scan transclude.js, copying the info from your js to mine? Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:47, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
You can do, but the easier way is to do it directly from my page (then If I make a change in future, you don't need to copy it manually):
mw.loader.load('// transcludes.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');
(N.b. if you did copy to a page of your own, you still need the above line in common.js, but change the title to match.) Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 18:06, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Apologies for beating a dead horse (and incessant pinging), but I am just not sure exactly what info and where to copy to. It is not intuitive to me. Could you possibly spell out directions for me? Of course, you likely assume you already have ;) Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:15, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
You should just need to add that code line to your common.js file. I'd put it around line 5. Then reload an index page and look in the "Tools" section of the left sidebar. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 18:20, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Magic. Thanks very much :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:24, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Glad it works, let me know if you have any problems :-) Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 18:31, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

Q2: @Billinghurst: So, for instance with Index:Bunny Brown on Grandpa's Farm.djvu—the "Copyright" page is not transcluded. Should I categorize it as such on the Index:page ([[Category:Not transcluded]])? and then, would I mark the Index with {{index transcluded|transcluded=notadv}} due to the red "Advert" Index pages at end? BTW, why—when applying @Inductiveload:'s scan transcludes script—are those red pages outlined in green if not transcluded? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:28, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

There was a bug with the recognition of page titles for non-existent pages. It should now indicate if any mainspace page is transcluding a non-existent page (it'll go green if so). Perviously it was always blue. Note: only transclusions from mainspace are counted. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:00, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
@Inductiveload: Looking at the Index for Bunny Brown (linked to above), the final Advert pages are not proofread (or marked in any way), yet they are outlined in green (indicating transclusion in the Main). But the Mainspace page transclusion does not include those pages as indicated (<pages index="Bunny Brown on Grandpa's Farm.djvu" from=251 to=258 />. Do I misunderstand? <sorry> Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:13, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
They're blue for me (i.e. not transcluded but that's not so critical as they don't exist). Are you sure they are green? Maybe there's not enough contrast in the colours? Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:16, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
You're right, they're blue. My poor eyesight :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:18, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
I've made them orange. I think that still conveys "not as important as un-transcluded proofread pages" and in fact better conveys "not transcluded" than blue. I think it stands out a bit more for "no-text" pages too. Let me know if you have a better colour in mind! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:26, 23 January 2018 (UTC)
Works for me :) Thank you! Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:33, 23 January 2018 (UTC)

@Inductiveload: We have the tool checker tool that sits on every index page ... this image -> Crystal man.png (top right). Or am I missing something. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:10, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

They do essentially the same thing but I liked the idea of seeing them visually in the page list on the index page. I find that checker tool not so easy to quickly see the state of transclusion for the whole work, as you can only fit a handful of rows on a screen. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 00:18, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
If the tool checker tool was a snake...
I never paid attention to those icons and knew not what they did! Personally, I do like the visual aspect of Inductiveload's tool. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:24, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
Using the tool checker tool, I noticed it is not 'working' on Sartor Resartus for some reason? No Index:pages are appearing. Should I report a bug using the link? Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:39, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
In addition to the above issue, @Inductiveload, @Billinghurst: —I might add that using both tools has its benefits. Inductiveload's tool gives you a good initial snapshot of the nature of an Index. Any pages outlined in red can easily be right-click-opened on the spot to investigate. Once any affected pages have been dealt with, you can use the tool checker tool to double-check the status of pages. With some works, this may even save time. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:41, 24 January 2018 (UTC);_and,_On_heroes,_hero-worship_and_the_heroic_in_history.djvu it occasionally chokes on apostrophes and semi-colons with its encoding. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:56, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: For works not transcluded, or not fully transcluded, I (on some occasions) either fixed issues or sought out those who had been proofreading the works to see what their status was. But is it alright to merely mark a work as "not transcluded" and move on? (I felt guilty about doing so after a point) or do you ideally prefer seeking a fix first before moving on? Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:30, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

That is exactly how I handle things. Push it out if I know someone likes to fix; fix if miniscule; throw to the community; or label it for later transclusion. Nothing goes backwards, and if you tag it, it flags to those who are watching Category:Transclusion check required. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:03, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: If pages are rendered thusly—"from=1 to=5 exclude=1"—I assumed that page 1 would render as "transcluded" (despite) when checking for transcluded pages at the Index. I guess I'm wrong? Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:08, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Never tried it, would have always just started at 2. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:55, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Alright. Thanks. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:03, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Facsimile image[edit]

Regarding this page: Thanks for clarifying in edit summary that you want an image rather than transcription. Given that, and since this is an source, there are almost certainly high-resolution JP2 file scans of each page. (It would take a little poking around to know for sure, since the original file seems to have an error in the source field.) The JPG you're currently using, if printed, would be very blocky (just 550×800px).

I'd be happy to get the original if you'd like, and upload a higher resolution version. Ordinarily, I do this by means of @Hesperian:'s bot, which they only run every few months, but which saves a bunch of human hassle...but it's possible to do it manually too. Let me know if you'd like me to do one or the other, happy to do so. -Pete (talk) 04:54, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Any improvements are always welcome! The facsimile images in the intro &c. can definitely be improved upon; but I would suggest keeping them the same scale as the original and not cropping white space (so they look like the pages of a book that they are); ideally, they all remain the same size for visual effect. I would recommend not setting a width, and keeping them "frameless".—Any user/reader is free to click on the image to enlarge. I have updated formatting at the Index pages using {{center}} for mobile viewing. Merely placing |center in the file line does not center in mobile view. If you can not get to them, let me know. Thanks for the heads up and offer! Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:39, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
OK, thanks for the guidance and the info about mobile centering. @Hesperian:, if you are listening, this brings me to a question I've had for a while: Is there a way to flag a page for your bot to extract the JP2 files, without putting it right on the page itself? Because as it is, the existing JPG is "good enough," and I don't want to mess up the canonical text with a {{raw image}} template. If, for instance, I created a Peteforsyth/example page, with the raw image template on it, would that trigger the bot to grab the image?
(Side point, it looks like the link to the IA page is broken, probably as a result of a brokaen template on Commons. Perhaps that will also interfere with your bot working on this particular file. I've asked @Inductiveload: over there about how it can be fixed.) -17:57, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
RE: Commons link: In case you don't already have it, although I'm sure you figured it out, the source file at IA for the text is: [1] Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:03, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Lisbon and Cintra[edit]

It looks as though you've been using macrons instead of tildes in this text. Portuguese uses tildes to indicate nasalized vowels, not macrons. I've corrected the ToC pages, but there are likely to be other instances throughout the work. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:15, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: Ah—there are more. Combination of needing a stronger pair of glasses and ignorance. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:30, 6 February 2018 (UTC)

Mrs. Inchbold is Ada Alice Cunnick[edit]

INCHBOLD Edward Stanley of 24 Elm-grove-road Littlehampton Sussex died 21 March 1934 at Chichester Probate Lewes 19 May to Ada Alice Inchbold widow. Effect £818 13s. 6d.

Calendar of the Grants of Probate, 1934, vol. H-K p. 413

INCHBOLD Ada Alice of 24 Elm-grove-road Littlehampton Sussex widow died 21 January 1939 Probate Lewes 22 February to Eleri Margaret Cunnick spinster. Effects £2379 2s 1d.

Calendar of the Grants of Probate, 1939, vol. H-K p. 474

noting FreeBMD death registration for 1939 gives age born in 1859

Name: Ada Alice Cunnick
Registration Year: 1858, Q.3
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Volume: 11a
Page: 378

  • 1881 census says b. 1859 - Aberdare, Glamorgan, Wales, shows her as a governess
  • 1861 census is very smudged, possibly says Aberdare too
  • No 1891 to 1911 census evident for the married couple
  • No evident marriage registration for Cunnick or Inchbold in FreeBMD.
  • He was showing as school teacher in 1881

billinghurst sDrewth 22:31, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Thank you. So it would seem Mr. Inchbold's death date of 1921 at [2] would be incorrect? Can you confirm his birth date is 1855? Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:41, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

  • FreeBMD birth[2]

Name: Edward Stanley Inchbold
Registration Year: 1855, Q2
Registration district: Greenwich
Volume: 1d
Page: 502

  • Baptism

Name: Edward Stanley Inchbold
Baptism Date: 21/08/1855
Baptism Place: Lewisham Hatcham St James England
Father: Thomas Mawson Inchbold
Mother: Anne Inchbold
Annotated born Dec. 21, 1855 an error, so presumably is March, April, May or June

  • FreeBMD death[3]

Deaths Mar 1934
Inchbold Stanley 78 Chichester 2b 651

Great! Thank you Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:09, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Over at WD, Mr. Stanley Inchbold seems to have many referenced but incorrect death dates, and birth date as well. Should I change to the correct dates citing FreeBMD info above? Is there a website to link to? I am creating his Author page, but want to wait until dates are corrected at WD first. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:22, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Had to dig deeper to find that, and can find him in postal directories in late 90s, and possibly
  1. 1="Index entry". FreeBMD. ONS. Retrieved 13 February 2018. 
  2. 1="Index entry". FreeBMD. ONS. Retrieved 13 February 2018. 
  3. 1="Index entry". FreeBMD. ONS. Retrieved 13 February 2018. 

To answer your question about WD. We would deprecate the 1921 death information (reason for deprecation = incorrect value Q41755623) and add 1934 and set to normal

Thank you. Will do. Tomorrow morning. Please don't do it for me! Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:26, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
/me stands to attention. "Yes ma'am" — billinghurst sDrewth 03:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: At ease, Cap'n. I don't rate :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:35, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
yeah right — billinghurst sDrewth 11:46, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
Need I explain? Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:52, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
I'm a civilian without rank who spends my days doing basically whatever I like—like editing wikis—and sometimes what I have to. Any contribution or sacrifice I have made is eclipsed by the sacrifice made by those who make it possible for me to lead this life of leisure. To them I owe my gratitude and respect.
@Billinghurst: I was perhaps a bit too serious and introspective this morning :) Thanks for all the info. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:30, 13 February 2018 (UTC)
Yeah, I think that you might have been, just a weeeeee tad. [I am laughing, if that is helping.] Life is too short to not go through it laughing at the inanity of it all. It may have helped if there was a goofy grin emotion that sits beside me standing at attention. <- apply goofy grin here too, or double raised eyebrows. 22:35, — billinghurst sDrewth 13 February 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: I'll visualize chooks on the hunt among the fringe lilies and find my happy place :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:32, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Hah! For the chooks, I was digging out a flax lily which for me have wicked root runners (rhizomes, or whatever they are) that spreads! Great plant, just needs boundaries. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:29, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Last(?) ping @Billinghurst: "I love best the flower I have not seen!" Mrs. Coates wrote nine poems mentioning the asphodel. Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:46, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Truth is that the flowers are okay, however, the fruit is deep purple and sits above the plant. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:43, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
Dianella – from the Greek Diana – goddess of the hunt &c. —apropos of your chooks. There is a poem there somewhere. Chooks among the flax lilies.
Right now I am watching a raccoon (one of two born and living under our deck) on the hunt for peanuts, but settling for the cracked corn left by the birds and squirrels. Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:02, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
oh, and for death, you can qualify with "stated age at event" — billinghurst sDrewth 03:57, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Not an entirely accurate depiction, and it may not qualify as having educational value at Commons, but for levity's sake,—

Chooks among the flax lilies.jpg

Chooks among the flax lilies

Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:23, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

<laughing> add a pair of legs in shorts and gumboots; mattock in hand, foot pushing to get the dumb chook's head out of the way, and some cursing and the picture is complete. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:19, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: Don't give me any more ideas. How would I even categorize that? Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:37, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Stray numbers[edit]

Do you know what the stray numbers on these pages are? Page:The Muse in Arms, Osborn (ed), 1917.djvu/21 - stray 2 at lower left. Page:The Muse in Arms, Osborn (ed), 1917.djvu/69 - stray 5 at lower left. Carcharoth (talk) 16:02, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

I forgot what they are called... Some kind of publishing markings that do not need to be transcribed. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:02, 14 February 2018 (UTC)
@Carcharoth: As an aside, as I came to Richard Dennys' work, I remembered we have an audio file on his "Better Far to Pass Away" (see his author page). It was recorded by Jannie Meisberger, who has read some of Florence Earle Coates' poems (a pet project of mine), and two by Rupert Brooke as well. I hired her to lend her voice to a poem I wrote for my daughter's graduation a few years back. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:34, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. I will listen to those some time soon. Just looked at the main page for The Muse in Arms and it is looking really good! Do you know how to get the Herbert Jenkins footnote to appear in a better place, more within the introduction rather than at the bottom of that page? Also, may I try doing the 'Battle Pieces' section when that is ready? Carcharoth (talk) 17:51, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
I'll look into the footnote question. I am not currently aware of a method. As far as working on "Battle Pieces", do you mean proofreading poems? or creating the Mainspace page once the poems have been proofread? If the former, please—have a go whenever you like! If the latter, also a "yes". Help yourself to any aspect of this work :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:56, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
P.S. I improvised for the footnote (see the Main page in edit mode). Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:05, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
@Carcharoth: Marginal marks of the printer to help following w:imposition. They are used so the imposed printed sheets (unfolded and uncut) can be checked to be present and in order prior to the binding process. So you will see them regularly appear in the page sets, so /21, /37, /53, ... binary pattern and think back to books being 64, 128, 192, 256 pp, especially old exercise books. [Yes, too much information I know! <eyeroll>]. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:49, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
@Carcharoth: (Read above from Billinghurst first if you haven't already) Beginning next week, I will not likely be editing regularly for a few days, so please feel free to help yourself to any aspect of editing this work. I'll check in on occasion to see if you have any questions, etc. and to keep an eye on my Watchlist, but no serious proofreading for me beginning Monday for a spell. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:58, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for the replies. I didn't get much (anything) done... But have a bit of time now to do a few pages. Carcharoth (talk) 12:50, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

What can you say about ...[edit]

these files that I see sitting tucked away

billinghurst sDrewth 04:35, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Remnants from a WS translation that has since been deleted due to inactivity with no likelihood of being worked on further. I wanted very much to find a PD translation somewhere, but none were available, so I gave the next best thing a shot, only I don't speak the language. I was willing to transcribe from the images and was hoping someone else would come along and translate, but it just sat there. :( They can be deleted as they serve no current purpose here. Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:54, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:15, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
Welcome. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:18, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

A couple of useful templates[edit]

Hi, these templates [{{nothanks-inapt}} and {{nothanks-drm}}] are useful for putting on user talk pages when deleting pages that don't meet WWI or our copyright rules respectively. If the edit was a test then use {{test}}. For the two nothanks templates, you should put the name of the page as the second parameter and the signature goes outside the template. For test, the pagename isn't put in, but the signature is as |sig=4tildes Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:01, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

@Beeswaxcandle: Thank you for the direction... I am not confident in this area—it is like pulling teeth for me! but no one else seemed to be around, and the initial deletion (noted at Noticeboard) seemed like it should be dealt with right away. Appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:10, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: Thanks for your 20c as well at the Noticeboard. I didn't place a welcome for reasons cited at the Noticeboard. It may have been the prudent thing to do, but you are more diplomatic than I am :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:59, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Welcome costs nothings so if there is any hope of redeemable I will put a welcome message. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:21, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Will do. Londonjackbooks (talk) 04:25, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
Note that the "nothanks" templates have a link to the "welcome" template. As a result, I don't usually use both together unless separated by a few days. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:20, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
A case where I perhaps need to learn to swallow my pride. This is more of a rhetorical question, but sincere,—What if I don't "appreciate [their] contribution" (re:Welcome)? I suppose I can leave it unsigned. Again, merely thinking out loud (and stubborn). Thanks both! Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:06, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Caught up[edit]

I have finished validating all the proofread pages at the index for The Muse in Arms. 16 pages left to proofread and validate for the 'Battle Pieces' section. Let me know if you will have time to return to this soon. Carcharoth (talk) 12:21, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

@Carcharoth: Great :) Did you want to give proofreading a shot? If you prefer to validate, I will try to be more vigilant about getting back to work on it. I should be "back" in a few hours. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:25, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
Could we continue with the current you proofreading and me validating setup until we finish the 'Battle Pieces' section, then I try setting it up on the main works page, and then I'll try formatting and proofreading some pages from the later sections. Would that work? Carcharoth (talk) 13:50, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
Of course! There may be an unexpected delay today, however. Will get to as soon as possible :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:27, 3 March 2018 (UTC)
@Carcharoth: 'Battle Pieces' is all set to be transcluded if you'd like to set it up in the Main. Just copy/paste the previous section's formatting, then adjust as necessary. I can do the redirects/versions pages & poem additions to author pages once the section has been transcluded. Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:09, 5 March 2018 (UTC)
Done. Is there a reason why the bit at the top of the main page is only saying "34 pages validated"? Is there some cache I need to purge somewhere to get that to display correctly? Carcharoth (talk) 18:05, 6 March 2018 (UTC)
I think it's displayed correctly... pp. 35-69 is 34 pgs. With respect to the bar not being completely green, I don't think it ever renders that way, even when fully validated. Dunno! Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question? I will get to adding redirects &c. for that section in just a bit. Just returned home. Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:12, 6 March 2018 (UTC)

Good to see you have been able to do more. I will try and add to what has been done soon. If at all possible, would I be able to do the initial page creations and proofreading (this is assuming no-one else turns up!) for the 'IN MEMORIAM' section (book pages 123 to 140, index pages 165 to 182)? I may not have time to do more proofreading than that, but will happily validate everything else as you get to it. Carcharoth (talk) 13:43, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

It's all yours :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:48, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Passport photos[edit]

For the purposes of what they are, I do not see how they could be considered works of art, or creative compositions. Here, any such variation outside of a specified size and posture would exclude it from the purpose. At Commons I would even be prepared to entertain that passport photos would fit under the provision of c:Com:de minimis and aligned with c:Commons:Threshold of originality‎. — billinghurst sDrewth 20:11, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Thanks. I'll explore those links. The guidance I was given elsewhere led me to create a file locally at Wikipedia with explanation supplied as to why I felt it should be marked as "fair use". I'm open to suggestions. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:29, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
Sure if we consider it is only fair use issue. Copyright is the law of the right to make a copy based on numbers of artistic criterias conceptually for intellectual property, all of which should be missing from passport photos, which have their own raison d'être. Interesting argument and one that would be fun to argue. How would you ever know who took it, the purpose of taking it, the derivative of a larger image, etc.  :-) — billinghurst sDrewth 00:17, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I have to admit that copyright is an issue that confuses me to where I just throw up my hands... Not the best approach, I know. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:48, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: Not wanting to seem dismissive of your comments... If you think there is something I would benefit from pursuing, I'll give it more consideration :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:31, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
If it is only something for enWP then not worth the fuss, if you also wanted the image here +++, then we can test the water. :-) — billinghurst sDrewth 04:05, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: Well, that had crossed my mind... Why should the licence used for this image not apply? Or for these? Londonjackbooks (talk) 08:19, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I have no idea who took the photo, and don't know the history of such. It may be the case that in the US that photographs were taken by the public servants. Give it a go and await any challenge, though I would not leave the field empty, more likely to say "not stated" as filled fields are less queriable than empty fields. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:53, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Separate file from the one at WP is okay? No issues with conflicting files/licenses? or we'll find out...? Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:13, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
If same image, then upload with the same name, local uploads always have precedence over Commons. The file at enWP will show up as being a duplicate of Commons, and likely be deleted, which is all fine. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:53, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
Okay, done. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:19, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
BTW, @Billinghurst:, last night I dreamed that you responded to a post of mine (subject not remembered) and began your response stating, "Despite your rigmarole..." Do I ramble much? :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:49, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
On the subject of copyright, it is looking more and more like an overseas move will be in the cards for us. Not sure how that will affect what I will be able to edit. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:57, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
<laughing> I love that word, and I am known to use it, though I would never use it with you. Sorry to have caused you nightmares. To life circumstance, one door opens, and sometimes a door closes, or maybe we can keep it ajar, maybe fully open. Whichever it is, the doors still exist, and the community will still be here building on your contributions. Hugs for your next journey, and here is hoping ... ! — billinghurst sDrewth 21:18, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I am hopeful, and thanks. Looking like early summerish. I'll post a wikibreak notice if/when the time comes, and then we'll see! :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:30, 9 March 2018 (UTC)