User talk:Londonjackbooks

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Please do not be too censorious of non-historical sentences. Draw your pencil through them and go on.

—from The Litany of Washington Street by Vachel Lindsay.

Londonjackbooks talk

Page 19 illustration (greyscale) in The Game (London).jpg

"All I know is that you feel good
in the ring."The Game (1905) by Jack London

"All lies and jest
Still, a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest"

from "The Boxer" by Simon & Garfunkel

USMC logo.svg

This user is a
of 25 years.

September 11th, 2001

...It was as if an earthquake rent
The hearth-stones of a continent,
          And made forlorn
          The households born
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!

And in despair I bowed my head;
"There is no peace on earth," I said:
          "For hate is strong,
          And mocks the song
Of peace on earth, good-will to men!"

Then pealed the bells more loud and deep:
"God is not dead; nor doth he sleep!
          The Wrong shall fail,
          The Right prevail,
With peace on earth, good-will to men!"

—from Christmas Bells by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
"Awards for participation"


Image files of missing toolbars[edit]

Hi. If you no longer need them, can I delete the image files left over from the missing toolbar affair listed here? Just cleaning up.— Ineuw talk 05:32, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Sure! All of these images can be deleted. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:41, 24 September 2015 (UTC)


Hi London :) It seems I see your edits on almost every page history I visit, and that you updated my contributions page (knowing that I would be fine with that). For all this and more I am very grateful, cheers. Hope all is well with you, regards CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:02, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Doing well, thanks! Some of your uploaded/proofread texts were of interest to me, so I validated, and took the liberty to promote them on your page. Good to see you back editing again. Your contribution and wit have been missed. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:15, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Surfeit of Wilkinsons[edit]

Can it be the same person: E. F. Wilkinson and Eric Fitzwalter Wilkinson? Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 03:44, 27 September 2015 (UTC).

Yes—I believe it is the same person. Thanks for pointing that out. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:58, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
I just happened to notice this in passing. This is not the victim of the famously "hushed-up" "mutiny" is he? Sort of ties up with this Commonwealth War Graves Commission entry. (Small world: I recently attended a history lecture where this matter was raised. According to some sources the records are sealed until 2017; according to others they were destroyed after ten years: in 1927.) AuFCL (talk) 04:20, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Probably the same. "Captain, West Yorkshires" in More Songs—aside from the mis-spelling of Fitzwalter on the casualty page. He was reportedly "killed in action [during the battle of Passchendaele], October 9, 1917" (More Songs...)—five days after Short was executed. more Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:58, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
Looking into it—"Fitzwalter" might be incorrect... Billinghurst, can you verify whether it be Capt. "Eric Fitzwalter Wilkinson" or "Eric Fitzwater Wilkinson"? I am now leaning toward the latter... Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:59, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Is this of any use? If the picture caption is genuinely period then "Fitzwater" is a shoo-in but is your eye good enough to detect if it is a later addition? AuFCL (talk) 21:17, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Don't trust my eyes. But this adds to the evidence. Thanks to you and Capt Nemo for the prompting. I'll make the changes & SIC's.
I consider my submission utterly trumped. Yours is much better, and besides WorlCat seems to have made its choice as well. (On a personal note I also stumbled across another researcher looking for connections with the mutiny...casting around for a good, threatenee?) AuFCL (talk) 21:50, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
Do you know how to add a book from Hathi Trust to or directly to Commons as djvu? Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:13, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
I think that one of @Ineuw, William Maury Morris II: was able to do this if it was needed. I am unsure of who else had the access. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:37, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
I wish I knew how to import whole books from Hathi Trust rather than page by page, and being outside US also limits the number of books I can access. Captain Nemo (talk) 23:05, 28 September 2015 (UTC)
No problem, thanks... I still have much on my plate. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:27, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Births Mar 1891
Wilkinson Eric Fitzwater Rochdale 8e 29 Scan

billinghurst sDrewth 01:26, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
It would be useful to put this research and links onto the author's talk page. It is how I have been recording such information, and then transferring to WD as required, and becomes my reference point if there are any questions or contesting of ideas. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:38, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Some done, thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:36, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, I really tried. Although I am registered with Hathi Trust, they gave me no access to this book and the book doesn't exist in a Canadian Library connected with Hathi Trust/Worldcat, and neither does Internet Archive. However, I am hoping that @William Maury Morris II: has better luck. — Ineuw talk 12:20, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for trying! Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:25, 29 September 2015 (UTC)
A few moments ago I was alerted about this conversation via my "Brother Officer" AOL account. I can download and am willing to get that book for you Londonjackbooks It is on Hathi Trust. It is about 90 pages long and will need some work done on it to remove all "Google" and "University of" watermarks which I have done on very large works. I did one for dear ole Hesperian in parts and another (plates) I sent to Ineuw page by page via private e-mail specially for good ole Beeswaxcandle re: illustrated color Flowers. Ineuw, "ping" I don't hear nor am I notified by it. Please let me know something via here or AOL. My brother officer email page shows on Wikisource. Kind regards to all, William Maury Morris II. —Maury (talk) 07:39, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Appreciated. At your leisure. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:52, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Londonjackbooks, I learned that Hathi Trust no longer allows .pdf downloads, whole books or individual pages in PDF format as they once did. Kind regards, —Maury (talk) 22:44, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
No problem; thanks for trying, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:46, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
Londonjackbooks, I found that I can download every page in an image format (PNG). Then all watermarks will have to be cleaned to remove those markings & Adobe Photoshop can do that. They next can be combined into a .PDF file, and next that would need OCR'ed to get a text layer. I recall that you scanned your own hardcopy of a book and would have (I guess) OCR'ed that book. There is also an image of an army officer facing front vs side. So, do you want the book images? The book is, I think, a fiction book. Can a person just upload images and then transcribe them on Wikisource? Will that text "transclude"? In any case I can download each page image. —Maury (talk) 23:22, 2 October 2015 (UTC)
I have created several books page-by-page as you said, and it is very tedious. My heart is not in this particular text as it was the others to be so ambitious as to work with individual pages again, but thank you for being willing to help! Perhaps it will pop up on in the future. I'll keep watching... To answer your question, Yes—you can upload individual images to make up an Index. Transclusion is a little different, however. An example is Index:Earle, Does Price Fixing Destroy Liberty, 1920 ... It was a lot of work, but well worth it. Appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:38, 2 October 2015 (UTC)

Validating Images[edit]

Londonjackbooks, if you will alert me to images you want validated I am willing. Collect a handful and then let me know the pages. I work with images and know how difficult it is sometimes to get works validated. Post them here. I'll check back to see if you have listed any. —Maury (talk) 12:25, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Mr. Morris. I added images for User:Akme for this text. I believe they will eventually want to resize the images (I have only left them as thumbnails), but the pages will at least be more easily identifiable as image pages if they are validated. Appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:38, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

Stevenson's poetry[edit]

Thanks again for your work on RLS' poetry. Just wanted to ask why do you want to add a poetry volume from (the second) Vailima's edition. As RLS collected works go, both Vailimas is not among the best available. Even Biographic edition is of more interest. Any poetry there which is not in collections already here? Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 04:07, 7 October 2015 (UTC).

@Captain Nemo: I am open to suggestions, but yes—if you take a look at Stevenson's Index of Poem Titles, many of the poems that aren't yet linked to (in black, other than the Ballads) are available in the Vailima edition. There are around 40 or so, and I haven't found them elsewhere online. If you are aware of any other source that is available/more desirable, that would be great! I'll suspend proofreading until I hear from you. Also, we do not yet have Ballads hosted. If you know of any good editions available online, could you point me to it/them? I am not well versed on Stevenson, but I have come thus far, and would like to see it through... Any input would be great! Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:47, 7 October 2015 (UTC)
I am slowly digesting my humble pie:) The 2nd Vailima supposed to "suffer from Lloyd Osbourne's careless transcriptions". That may well be so (and Fanny's intro is lifted from biographical edition) but it seems that its poetry volume is extremely good in terms of hitherto unpublished pieces. So your choice was excellent after all! I cannot find the 1st edition of Ballads (by Chatto and Windus) anywhere, but Scribner's reprint (seem to be the same plates as C&W) has two good copies in internet archive: [1] and [2]. Cheers, Captain Nemo (talk) 01:33, 9 October 2015 (UTC).
Great! Thanks much for looking into it! Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:40, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

2nd opinion[edit]

Hi. I replaced the text at The Happy Prince and Other Tales/The Happy Prince with pages you validated (cheers!), and the rest of that work. Your opinion on the display and my explanation on the talk-page would be welcome. Tak, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:48, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Yesterday I noticed the double-hyphens in the Index pagelist which looks odd in the Main. I would reduce it to one. In the past, I have chosen not to transclude some matter (actual page 1, for example) if it is redundant in the Mainspace. In my opinion, it is more pleasing to the eye without it there, but that might go against "faithful rendering". Other than that, maybe more spacing between text/images at the MS title/toc page using [double space] {{nop}} at the end of the Index:Pages. I read the story first time in 2006, and gave it to one of my children to read. Liked it the second time around too. Thanks for uploading. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:13, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
I didn't think of that, I added double hyphens for my own convenience (a bigger target). I can remove them now, thanks for noting that. I have read some of it before, will do a smooth-read to catch any other errors. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:01, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Missed the Talk page bit... Will read now. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:15, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
To add, I generally don't like {{page break}}s, but if you keep the redundant titles, it is logical to keep them. With regard to the Talk page, I think it was acceptable to replace versions considering edition choices. Your wording on the talk page ("The text for this work currently consists of the following: Some front matter from Index:The_happy_prince_and_other_tales.djvu...") makes it sound (to me) like you have incorporated some of the 1920 version into the 1888 version (which you have not), but I might be reading it wrong. Your use of the words "currently consists" might have thrown me, but you update yourself when you state "I am going to replace the above with..." Maybe substitute the words "originally consisted"? or am I reading things wrong? Also, you want to correct your wording: "I would have done simply done that." That's all I noticed. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:44, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
P.S. I notice you are uploading Chesterton's work on Blake... [Bought] read [sold] and enjoyed that one as well. If I remember correctly, there are no chapters, just one long piece to transclude into the Main. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:55, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for that. I find hard to leave out redundant titles, front matter, ads and so on. In the pre-scan days contributors threw away everything, now we add too much of the original. However, I said, the advert I saw for the Crane ed. of Happy Prince worked on me. I fretted over that past and present tense for a few seconds, then found something else to worry about ...
I saw the quote here and have been busy ever since, I love bios on Blake, wanted to read Chesterton, and had forgotten about the index. Thanks for all the comments. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:01, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and I'll think about page breaks when I look again. I stopped using them at one stage. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:06, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
Now wishing I hadn't sold (somewhat recently) my Chesterton copy. It had all the images which I could have scanned & contributed. A very small book in its proportions. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:11, 29 October 2015 (UTC)
You should take the credit for this Chesterson text, I wince when I see the things I missed. You caught on, it seems, that the double line and smallcaps are used for larger pauses in the text, but you say that needs two lines (return key x 3) between the full stop and the nop. I haven't been doing that, in this index and somewhere else recently. Have I forgotten how to do something else? CYGNIS INSIGNIS 12:39, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
Won't take credit. That's what validation is for. I always hesitate to make note of corrections, not wanting it to be "in your face". Sometimes I make note, sometimes I don't. I wince too, when it is my work, but appreciate finding repeated mistakes so as not to be a repeat offender. But nobody's perfect. Sometime after I worked on the TWP, you had to start leaving two spaces (return key x 3) before an {{nop}} to arrive at the desired spacing in the Main. I went back through that entire text and converted nops to breaks. You can also check out {{Dhr}}, but I don't usually use that template between pages in my work. You haven't forgotten anything, things just change. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:02, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
Well, I will mark this down as another successful collaboration. This is the second time we've transcluded a completed and checked index, I'm willing to bet that has never happened before. I'm going to have to go over my earliest transclusions and check the spacing, a good opportunity to update the coding and reflect on how my own approach changed. I took break from Carlyle because of end of line hyphens, he is very playful with language and it is not always clear whether it should be retained. If a search of the index doesn't work (realising as I type this that I should have been noting them somewhere), I compare what other editors have done by googling it. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 14:43, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
It was a good re-read. I like Chesterton's humor/take on things. Looking around, I noted he wrote a piece on Carlyle as well, mentioning hero worship. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Marlborough and other poems TOC[edit]

(Please pardon a minor piece of advertisement.) In case you are interested I made a trial reformatting of the troublesome Contents table "main-space equivalent here. To see the "Page:"-space equivalents scroll upwards from that point. Any thoughts/criticisms welcome. AuFCL (talk) 03:46, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

Some thoughts (I may not be the right person to offer criticism): I can really only speak to output, which looks good to me (with one comment regarding width below). I went to the {{TOCstyle}} template to try to get my head around the input aspect. I would need to play around with variables (right word use?) to get a grasp on how all the parameters (right word again?) behave as they are changed. I have an inkling that I would still be requiring help with construction (much as I do now), and some of the terminology (in the descriptions) also escapes me. I would love to not keep asking for help, and I realize this would require some serious schooling on my part, and time in a sandbox. We all have different gifts in this "body" of Users. I certainly desire the "greater gifts" (if I can misuse the phrase) and don't ever want to take for granted the help/gifts of others... but... Am I being selfish/lazy by remaining in my comfort zone and not delving into the matter more seriously? Probably.
Formatting thought: It would be desirable (for me) to have a width: auto option, if I understand its nature correctly. I don't like to set width, but 100% width is often too wide for me visually. If {{TOCstyle}} is the way of the future, I just might create a sandbox to give it some study. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:47, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Please do not feel I have "put you on the spot." The whole thing was at heart an idea of George Orwell III's and {{TOCstyle}} is simply the result of my guessing what he had in mind (before he got too busy on other matters for me to annoy him too frequently for guidance.) I just thought you might be interested in what I was rabbiting on about earlier and yes the emphasis was on output as I know the input format is a bit esoteric at present. My intention had been that the various "model" parameters select styles to apply to various groups of fields—an approach that is only simple when the entire table of contents is so bland that a table would probably work better anyway… Bit of a Catch-22 there?

As to whether this is the "way of the future," the reality is probably not; but I would like to think it might be on the way to "the way of the future?"

P.S. You are quite right about the "width" option. I keep thinking I should put it in but ironically because it is relatively easy to do I always seem to get bogged down in something harder which somehow seems more important! Oh well, next task in line then. AuFCL (talk) 12:13, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

I do appreciate the effort at making tables more user-friendly. If harder = greater, then press on!—but always keep an eye toward us simple folk! Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:59, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Two-three points:
  1. Added and tested class/style/width parameters. Sorry it took so long.
  2. If I don't solicit/get feedback then this exercise is going to remain only of use to a tiny circle of people.
  3. "Simple folk" don't unerringly uncover such interesting cases as regularly turn up under your hands. Don't put yourself down!
AuFCL (talk) 22:57, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
  1. It is always at your leisure. Questions: So for "width", would you write "auto"? And, in the assembled TOC in your sandbox, what parameters did you use to make the subtitles render italic? Interestingly, when I change the class parameter to "center", the italic goes away...
  2. I'll always give feedback an honest shot.
  3. Not trying to be self-deprecating. No uncovering or discovering involved, really... The cases merely exist. What is uncovered is my lack of understanding how to solve them, and so I ask for help. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:33, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Maybe I don't understand auto width. I assumed it would "set" the width to the longest line. Is that correct, or not quite? Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:52, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
Tweaking in your sandbox, I noted the following:
renders "correctly" (with my understanding of auto width—which may be incorrect), but with italic subtitles
renders 100% width with no italic subtitles
renders "correctly", but with italic subtitles

Going to eat dinner, and will probably not be available until tomorrow (if then, but will likely be able to check in); then I will wikibreak until some time next week. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:20, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

Pardon me I stepped away for a while (also a meal.) So here are some late answers:
  • "width" HOWTO: I envisage mostly you'd do things like specify |width=250px or |width=50%. Whilst |width=auto is perfectly acceptable you really would not see much of a (indeed any) difference due to the fact that each "row" still strives to be as wide as possible within the "auto" constraint... which in turn feeds back and expands that "auto" into an effective "100%" which is probably not what was intended.

    On the other hand, scrapping |width altogether and substituting something like |style=margin-left:auto;margin-right:auto;min-width:300px;max-width:400px results in a display which never gets too wide and equally cannot be squeezed down—e.g. in a small window—such that more lines wrap around than would (more or less) appear in the scanned page.

  • the italics issue: It took a bit of digging, but insane as it seems there is a bit of CSS code hidden away in the so-called "skin" code common to all of the wikis (WP etc.) the relevant portion of which I shall reproduce below (the best link I could find was this one but despite that the actual filename ought to be something like .../core/skins/common/commonContent.css):
    div.floatright p { font-style: italic; }
    So in short you are quite correct: it is an accidental consequence of using class=floatright.
Hope these help. AuFCL (talk) 02:39, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
Whoops! I just realised I owe you a huge apology. I just re-read your earlier comments and realised I had blithely gone off and implemented what I had assumed you meant rather than what you had actually asked for. Unfortunately buried quite deeply inside {{TOCstyle}} are some assumptions which more or less rule out |width:auto as you requested: the primary one being the "table of contents" as constructed is in fact a "list" of tables (one per line)—and as a consequence the choices of having lines wrap around automatically (with justification etc.); and being able to determine the "narrowest overall width capable of accommodating all lines" are currently totally mutually exclusive choices. I shall have to think on this some more... AuFCL (talk) 04:24, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
O.K. The above apology still stands...but (you knew that was coming of course!)

After going around in circles quite a lot I realised that I actually had bumbled into an answer of sorts for your issue. Now please bear with me because there is a complicated technical solution and that is to apply |style=display:table;margin:0 auto 0 auto. Neat, works but pretty inscrutable.

However do not despair: simply surrounding {{TOCstyle}} with a simple {{center block/s}}{{center block/e}} pairing works just as well and also results in a self-sizing TOC, with very little extra baggage: an extra internal <div> layer, a bit more complicated CSS and that is about all.

The choice is now yours. AuFCL (talk) 01:12, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

There would appear no "official" means of propagating thanks, but I believe this (User:George_Orwell_III thanked you for your edit on MediaWiki_talk:Coltest.css.) is every bit as much yours as mine. AuFCL (talk) 07:59, 8 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for finding solutions for self-sizing a TOC. I have made note in a sandbox. I'll give {{TOCstyle}} a shot next text I transcribe. Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:17, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

TOCstyle experiments[edit]

Hello. I hope you don't mind my interference. I noticed your experiment at Page:Sandbox.djvu/3. I am actually quite shocked that leaving |completing=yes in a standalone block like that even worked. (In fact the parse very neatly sheared away everything that did not "fit" and produced HTML quite different to what I would have expected. I may have mentioned previously the output was normally intended to be a list of short(ish) tables. In fact this removed all of the list directives resulting in a (language fails me!) list of tables... Umm. let me start again: instead of:


you actually got:


which just happens to work in this instance.

For future reference the trio |starting=yes, |continuing=yes and |completing=yes were intended to mark TOC segments which crossed from page to page to page; analogous to combinations of {{block center/s}} and {{block center/e}}. In particular |completing=yes assumes there is some kind of initilising code going on in the Page: header area (typically something like {{TOCstyle|header=yes}}).

Anyway nice you are trying things out. I am sure extra bits will be needed from time to time so if you get too stuck please just ask. Probably as you did at template talk:TOCstyle is as good a place as any. AuFCL (talk) 10:08, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

I have permission to use the TOC for this work as a guinea pig. I thought I understood the use of starting, continuing, completing—but evidently not. I am sure I will have questions along the way. Just because what I produce may "work", it doesn't mean it is correct, so I'll likely be asking you to look things over when done. Thanks for looking into/creating the new models. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:21, 10 November 2015 (UTC)