User talk:Esme Shepherd

From Wikisource
Jump to navigation Jump to search


Hello, Esme Shepherd, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Carl Spitzweg 021-detail.jpg

You may be interested in participating in

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{CotW}} to your page for current wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your IP address (or username if you're logged in) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:45, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion of Index:Landon in Literary Gazette 1822.pdf[edit]

Hi Esme, do you have plans to transclude this work to the main namespace? If you are wanting assistance for tranclusion, then please ask. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:37, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi - I've had a look at this but it instructs me to add a new page and I cannot find how to do this. Where, and how should I name it? Esme Shepherd (talk) 11:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I have added the title used on the scan that you have, though feel welcome to amend it. From there you can add. Actually I may get one of our resident poetry experts to assist, she is way better on this stuff than me.

@Londonjackbooks: Can you please assist. My looking at the work it looks like individual works as subpages with a created table of contents utilising {{auxiliary Table of Contents}} on the root page. The edition detail that is on the top of each page may be better poked into the header and then utilised in the notes field of each subpage. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:50, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: I am giving it a look-through... There might be another option with subpage-creation. I'll get back on this soon... Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:44, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

The "Index" is actually a TOC, and is labeled "Contents". Most of the "work" is divided up into a series of sketches &c., with occasional poems peppering certain "sections". An alt option for subpages would be to divide/title subpages thusly:

/Song [single poem] @p1
/Poetic Sketches - Series 1 [6 sketches & 4 poems] @p2
/Poetic Sketches - Series 2 [6 sketches] @p19
/Songs [3 poems] @p33
/Sketches ... Dagley [3 sketches] @p36
/Poetical Sketches - Series 3 [6 sketches & 1 poem] @p42
/Dramatic Scenes [2 scenes] @p70
/Fragments in Rhyme [11 fragments & 1 sonnet] @p78

But then we would lose the ability to add edition details for each individual piece in the notes sections. For this reason, I am leaning toward Billinghurst's method, but would like to solicit a third opinion... @Beeswaxcandle:? Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:01, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Esme, I see you have already begun transclusion... For a Mainspace title, I would follow the title used in the scan as Billinghurst suggested above (Poems in The London Gazette during the year 1822 by Letitia Elizabeth Landon (L. E. L.) the poet everyone is talking about)... modifying that as you see fit, as it is rather long... But ".pdf" need not be in the title for a Mainspace page. I have further opinions, but am reticent to offer them currently. I will leave it to you to seek further inquiry as you see fit. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I am playing it by ear and will post again if I get stuck Esme Shepherd (talk) 17:19, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Gotcha. Sometimes we learn better that way. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:20, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 16:30, 14 March 2017 (UTC) I have transcluded Landon in The Literary Gazette 1822/Poetic Sketches - Sketch Third but the second page is left aligned even though both pages are centred using center block/s and center block/e in Pages and appear correctly centred there. Why is this?

Poem tag needed to be inside {{center block/s}} template on this page. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:47, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Also, subpages should have the same base title as the title page Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 17:10, 14 March 2017 (UTC) Oh dear - it might be easier to make new header pages at this stage

Move pages rather than convert to a redirect[edit]

As each Wikisource page ha an underlying identifier AND is linked at Wikidata, we would encourage you to move the page, then convert the created redirect into a disambiguation page. Converting an existing page into a redirect causes issues. Also to think about pages on watchlists, etc. Knowledge for next time. :-) Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:25, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

  • Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:24, 23 April 2017 (UTC) I was a little worried about this but surely only one page can have any particular name. It would be better if you discouraged editors from using page titles that are NOT UNIQUE to the work they are posting. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by moving a page. Can you explain, please?
    Let me start with the reading material
    • Help:Disambiguation about how we manage works with the same title. Unfortunately it is not possible to preclude any title, so we plan for how we manage this.
    • w:Help:Move WP's nice text on how to do a move ... using the dropdown More > Move.
    Please ping me with questions. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:49, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 09:46, 24 April 2017 (UTC) Thanks, I noticed that disambiguation pages state "If an article link referred you here, please consider editing it to point directly to the intended page." and I was hoping that would solve the issue. I will try your recommended route if the issue arises again. I wasn't expecting to find common titles usurped so frequently.

Yes, we do have legacy issues, and there was an earlier conversation (years ago) about pushing harder for extended titles to a nomenclature, however, it was just going to be doomed to failure, especially when putting in wikilinks in something like DNB. The reference on the disambig page is meant to indicate that you should put the link to where the work is (or might be) hence why we will set up "Dawn (Smith)" and play loose with redirects. There is no perfect way to do this. <shrug> — billinghurst sDrewth 16:16, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Image issues[edit]

Esme Shepherd (talk) 10:16, 28 April 2017 (UTC) I am in the process of proofreading "Improvisatrice. pdf", which I picked up at page 91 this morning. When I reached page 95, I found no image. The images up to 94 are all present and correct but after that, all the pages show the following message:
Error generating thumbnail:
Error creating thumbnail: Reading profile /etc/firejail/mediawiki-converters.profile Reading profile /etc/firejail/mediawiki-converters.profile �]0;firejail /usr/bin/convert -depth 8 -quality 95 -resize 1240 - /tmp/transform_66e513481da5.jpg �convert: no decode delegate for this image format `' @ error/constitute.c/ReadImage/501. convert: no images defined `/tmp/transform_66e513481da5.jpg' @ error/convert.c/ConvertImageCommand/3210. Parent pid 3374, child pid 3376 Parent is shutting down, bye...
Esme Shepherd (talk) 10:37, 28 April 2017 (UTC) P.S. This has only happened today. Yesterday, all the images were visible. Therefore, it must be some kind of glitch, which hopefully can be resolved.

@Hesperian, @Samwilson: either of you have an opinion worth sharing? Noting that it is Index:Improvisatrice.pdf. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:14, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@Beleg Tâl: and another — billinghurst sDrewth 16:59, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello, @Billinghurst: the problem is already known, I also see it in the yesterday's evening, and Beleg Tâl as well. See the topic on the Scriptorium/Help: Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help#Problems_with_File:Special_301_Report_2014.pdf. And Beleg Tâl kindly assisted with the problem and registered an issue on the Phabricator (as marked on the Scriptorium's Help). Now waiting the solution (maybe it'll come soon). Regards, Nigmont (talk) 17:46, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, tracked at task T164045. I just put a note at WS:S as well to make sure people know about it. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Resolved. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:49, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Improvisatrice transclusion[edit]

Hi, I was going through your transclusion. It seems that it does not conform to the convention here. You can compare with other works. For example:

  1. The name of the work, as per title page, is The Improvisatrice and Other Poems; but you have named it Improvisatrice (L. E. L.). I could not understand the reason.
  2. Title, printers, frontispiece, front, title page, advertisement, contents 1, contents 2 — this whole lot should be transcluded together. Is there any reason for separate transclusion, contrary to the custom here?
  3. There is no serial number of the items in the contents portion. Wherefrom did you get those serial numbers?
  4. Was there any reason to split the last stanza (after the rule) of Hindoo Girl's Song and shift it to Indian Bride?
  5. The pdf file itself seems to be artificially created, and not the 1824 version. An 1825 version is available at

Hrishikes (talk) 16:10, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 19:20, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

  • My compilation is based on the 1824 edition but to avoid duplication and to direct readers to actual sources, I have not duplicated the poems that are already transcluded from The Literary Gazette. That is why I avoided the actual title. There are, I know, other works entitled The Improvisatrice.
  • I am happy to put all the lead pages together. I wasn't sure about this but I would prefer it anyway.
  • The contents are linked to this volume or to the Literary Gazette collections, as dated.
  • The passage after Hindoo Girl's Song is a linking section, a part of the Improvisatrice's monologue that seems too short to require a separate page. It leads into and announces The Indian Bride, so it surely ought to be included there.

Esme Shepherd (talk) 20:27, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

  • Would you like me to add an explanatory header. I have provisionally prepared one in Category: Letitia Landon's Poetry.
Duplication of works are found in plenty in this site. They are normally treated as different versions or editions of the same work. Portions are not to be removed from the file. If there is some copyright problem for a particular page, that page can be blackened, but not removed. Even blank pages are not to be removed. As for the name, there may be other works named The Improvisatrice, but is there another work named The Improvisatrice and Other Poems? (the "other poems" portion is not to be ignored). The name in the title page should match the name of the work in the main namespace, except in exceptional cases, where contrary justification exists. Please pick some random works here and go through them, as well as the help pages, for a better understanding of the procedure here. Hrishikes (talk) 14:25, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Complete source works[edit]

Esme Shepherd (talk) 18:43, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

  • I have one in hand but have some issues before uploading - The title is incidentally 'The Troubadour; Catalogue of Pictures, and Historical Sketches' and the file will so be named if that is what is required.
  • There are issues with Tables of Contents - try as I will I can find no way of reproducing the columnar format of these tables in Wikisource. I have examined quite a number of cases but none help to reproduce the requisite format in cases such as this. The whole thing seems to be a nightmare.
  • The other issue with the Table of Contents is that the original, which it appears I am required somehow to reproduce, is designed for an in the hand book and is utterly useless as an aid to navigating an electronic book in Wikisource. Have you given any thought to this? Item one - page 1; item two - page 257. Really?
No one has said that you need to reproduce the TOC exactly. But the file should be uploaded as is, without editing the contents of the pages (except in special and justifiable circumstances), so that the original can be verified by any reader from the side-by-side display of scan and transcription. This verifiability is the whole point of our exercise of scan-backed proofreading. Hrishikes (talk) 00:21, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


Esme Shepherd (talk) 10:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC) I am a little frustrated to find that when using dropinitial decorated capitals in poetry, center block does not work. Lines are split prematurely and the right hand side of the page is never reached. I am therefore forced to inset all lines using gaps and this can go on for pages!

Usually you will get better response at Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help, and it would be useful if you can give examples of pages where you have tried something so others can look directly what you have tried. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

More Image Issues[edit]

Of the 99 images in Fisher's drawing room scrap book Plates, 15 are not showing on the Category page. At first they were also not appearing on pages, but now they are. They do appear when clicked to view. At first, one of the Fisher's drawing room scrap book Signatures was acting in the same way, but this has corrected. Esme Shepherd (talk) 14:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC) I should add that this problem arose sometime yesterday.

I am not sure how anyone would be expected to address such a statement, the information is incomplete, and there are no links. People are unlikely to do the legwork to interpret your question rather than answer it. And again, your user talk page is not the ideal place for the community to respond to questions. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:02, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
Sorry but this error clearly must relate to the change made in the media viewer and it is hardly likely to be confined to my images alone. Esme Shepherd (talk) 11:51, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


Thought that I would point you to {{fqm}}. It may be useful for some of the poetry type work that you have been doing. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:09, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 16:58, 22 January 2018 (UTC) Thanks, I think I have used it once, although inset quotes seem to be most usual in the period in which I am working.

Share your experience and feedback as a Wikimedian in this global survey[edit]

WMF Surveys, 18:36, 29 March 2018 (UTC)

Reminder: Share your feedback in this Wikimedia survey[edit]

WMF Surveys, 01:34, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Your feedback matters: Final reminder to take the global Wikimedia survey[edit]

WMF Surveys, 00:44, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

LEL excerpted works[edit]

Hello! In Wikisource:What Wikisource includes (with regard to excerpts), it states that "selected selections ... are generally not accepted." I came across this Index and noted that the poems contained within the work were excerpted/compiled from a larger work. I further wondered about the compilation/compiler, and whether they had placed the work of selected poems itself into the public domain. There is no external link to any such claim at the Index talk page or elsewhere (that I noted). I am not well versed on copyright, but remembering a past issue where a contributor asserted that there may be possible protections on compilations (with regard to order, etc.), I was curious. Not concerned, just curious. Thanks for any input :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:40, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:46, 6 May 2018 (UTC) Firstly, the compiler is myself and I am quite happy to have my compilations in the public domain. The reason for the excerpts is that the whole volume (in this case The Casket) contains numerous works by a number of authors, none of which are relevant to this particular Category, namely Letitia Elizabeth Landon. Indeed, some of my compilations have had to be garnered from a variety of other sources where the original volume is just not available. My aim by these means is to maximise the usefulness of Wikisource.

I understand. Using myself as an example, I have transcribed many fugitive pieces by Florence Earle Coates that were parts of other works containing various authors. If the complete work was not available at Wikisource, or if it was unlikely that it ever would be in one's lifetime, I transcribed the work as in the original (or as close as possible) and supplied a link in the Mainspace notes or on the Talk page to any reference available online. Then list the work on the Author page. I am sympathetic to being willing to have one's compilations in the public domain, for that was my introduction to Wikisource, and I was met with my compilation being a candidate for proposed deletion :) Not saying that will be the case with any of your efforts, but my uninformed instinct is that works hosted here need be handled 'differently'. I am just at a loss as to how to explain how exactly. I will think on it further. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:07, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:35, 6 May 2018 (UTC) I can say that the vast majority of my sources are scanned from originals found on line. I did have one issue with a small number of poems that could not be traced anywhere but in a modern 'hard' source, namely Sypher's Landon. Poems from Annuals. I enquired whether or not I could transcribe these and was told that would be okay. Of course I have credited that source, which is a book I do have in my possession.

Ok. I may be misunderstanding inclusion guidance, etc. As for the compilations, they seem to me to present a more nuanced issue. I don't have any clarity of thought about this at present, however. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:50, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

More image problems[edit]

Esme Shepherd (talk) 08:57, 2 June 2018 (UTC) I am experiencing image distortions when editing. These correct if I select 'show preview' but are nevertheless annoying. The issues are: 1. Image appears very squashed horizontally thus rendering it unreadable. 2. Image appears extremely enlarged, so that only a little of it can be seen.

Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC) This problem continues. Is everyone else having the same distortions or is it just me? If it is just me, why?

Poem about L. E. L.[edit]

Wondering if this poem by @Peteforsyth:'s Author:Frances Fuller Victor is not about 'your' Author:Letitia Elizabeth Landon? Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:30, 23 June 2018 (UTC) Thank you, I sure you are right although the 'clang of armor' is a bit fanciful! Cape Coast Castle was merely a trading station by that time. The opening quote is from 'Claribel' by Tennyson, who was clearly (although this is rarely acknowledged) influenced by L. E. L..

Nice to see more connections made, thanks for the ping Londonjackbooks! -Pete (talk) 00:02, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Duplicate file[edit]

Esme, are you aware the indexes Index:Landon in The New Monthly 1837.pdf and Index:New Monthly 1837.pdf are duplicates of each other? Which one would you like to be deleted? --kathleen wright5 (talk) 10:53, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 14:30, 18 June 2019 (UTC) Index:Landon in The New Monthly 1837.pdf is the one in use in Wikisource. I have since lost my file 'Landon in The New Monthly 1837.pdf' due to a computer crash, so I don't want it lost. I don't remember why there exists Index:New Monthly 1837.pdf but it does seem to be surplus to requirements. Thanks.

Esme Shepherd (talk) 14:37, 18 June 2019 (UTC)P.S. I think I abandoned titles like 'New Monthly' because obviously there is far more material in a magazine than selected poems by one author.

Blank pages[edit]

We don't proofread and validate blank pages. The grey button No Text should be used instead.--kathleen wright5 (talk) 00:22, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 20:20, 19 June 2019 (UTC) Thanks, I only discovered this a little while ago, and I'll try to remember in future.

Textual differences in Hymns for Childhood[edit]

I happened across this book and noticed quite a few discrepancies between the scan and the transcription. For example, the errors on this on page. These go beyond scannos or typos with some significant differences not only in spelling and capitalisation but also word choice. Or this page with two comma errors. Or here? That's a high error density for some short poems. How did this happen? And how did @Kathleen.wright5: not pick up on this while doing her proofreading—which was very fast? Were you copying in another digital text and not checking? BethNaught (talk) 12:35, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 13:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC) Sorry about this. I haven't checked yet but thought I had my text from this Dublin edition. It was originally published in America and I have another edition from there of 1840 with illustrations. It is possible I posted the wrong text but I was intent on proofreading through it and correcting in due course, as with all my other postings.

Esme Shepherd (talk) 14:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC) The text looks like the 1840 text. I have a separate text file for this and I can't remember how the two texts have become confused. I wasn't able to find the 1827 American edition although the Dublin edition does say it is a reprint. Again I apologise for the mix-up and I will check through it all carefully - I have made a start on this but it is unwise to rush.

It didn't click with me early enough that you hadn't proofread them yet—I'm very sorry for jumping at you! So the issue is with the proofreader, not you. Sorry again. BethNaught (talk) 14:55, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
I've now been through all the text and I'm happy to regard it as proofread. Strangely, the poem Birthday lines on p.58 does not appear in the 1840 edition! One question, if I may:the printer's page markings in the footers were all taken out by Kathleen.wright. I know they don't show in the final product but I always but them in, so that the page appears as shown. Do I need to add them, or not? Esme Shepherd (talk) 11:15, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
To the best of my knowledge, consensus is that printer's marks, not being part of the author's work, are not required, but also not forbidden. In my opinion Kathleen.wright removing them was pointless. In the future feel free to choose whether to add them. BethNaught (talk) 16:11, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for that. My texts are all scanned. I format them and try to remove all spaces before punctuation etc. but there are bound to be the odd corruptions that I have missed. Sometimes my word-processor adds to these (I ought to have turned auto-correct off!). Anyway, making them perfect! is what proofreading is for! Esme Shepherd (talk) 12:56, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Community Insights Survey[edit]

RMaung (WMF) 14:34, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Reminder: Community Insights Survey[edit]

RMaung (WMF) 19:13, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 20:38, 20 September 2019 (UTC) Noted. Will deal with soon. Been on holiday.

Reminder: Community Insights Survey[edit]

RMaung (WMF) 17:04, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

Missed transcluding a page[edit]

Hi. When transcluding a work you missed Page:Italian Literature.pdf/56. Can I please leave that with you to remedy. Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:03, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

  • Esme Shepherd (talk) 12:53, 10 October 2019 (UTC) Sorry about that. I don't know how but I suppose these things happen from time to time. My template has 56, but it shows as 55, so we had page 55 twice! Now corrected.
No issue, at all, we all do it. That is why we added the check tool to the Index: page template and it appears on each Index: page. Plus why we do the categorisation to mark the works we have checked, and those to be checked. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:15, 10 October 2019 (UTC)

Transcluding files[edit]

For 'Adelaide Contents.pdf' see 'The Fate of Adelaide. Table of Contents' in Wikisource (19.5.2017). I will deal with the two Felicia Hemans files shortly. Esme Shepherd (talk) 14:46, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

  • New Monthly 1832 Volume 34 and The Christmas Box, 1829 are now done, as far as I can see, all my validated files are now transcluded. Esme Shepherd (talk) 10:37, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Relative links[edit]

Hi. You can use relative links as in here. They are future-proof in case subpages need to be moved in future. And it is also less typing ... Mpaa (talk) 21:28, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. I've noticed these recently and will give them a go. My entries are all from templates where I use copy and paste, so the typing is not much of a problem but I occasionally run into problems with minor errors in page names (most often from TOCs): for instance, the inclusion of an unwanted comma. This leads to dead pages and I'm not sure how to deal with these-they just get abandoned. Is there a proper course of action? Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:31, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Relative links reduce a lot maintenance burden. Please use them as much as possible. If the page with wrong title has already been created, just move it to the right name. If it is just a link in a page, just fix the typo, I guess. I am not sure I fully got your question, so an example would help in case my answer is not satisfactory. Mpaa (talk) 16:20, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks again. I ought to have known that but the problem first arose long ago before I knew how to rename and somehow I've never put two and two together! Esme Shepherd (talk) 20:38, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

3 pages missed transcluding[edit]

Hi. I was checking transclusion and noticed that 3 pages were missedin a work Page:Hemans in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine 34 1833.pdf/20, Page:Hemans in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine 34 1833.pdf/21] and Page:Hemans in Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine 34 1833.pdf/22billinghurst sDrewth 11:39, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

  • Esme Shepherd (talk) 16:36, 5 January 2020 (UTC) Okay, thanks - this was work in progress that has now been completed. I am working on the other versions of these poems at the same time (in this case in National Lyrics, 1834).