User talk:Esme Shepherd

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Hello, Esme Shepherd, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Again, welcome! Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:45, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion of Index:Landon in Literary Gazette 1822.pdf[edit]

Hi Esme, do you have plans to transclude this work to the main namespace? If you are wanting assistance for tranclusion, then please ask. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:37, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi - I've had a look at this but it instructs me to add a new page and I cannot find how to do this. Where, and how should I name it? Esme Shepherd (talk) 11:38, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

I have added the title used on the scan that you have, though feel welcome to amend it. From there you can add. Actually I may get one of our resident poetry experts to assist, she is way better on this stuff than me.

@Londonjackbooks: Can you please assist. My looking at the work it looks like individual works as subpages with a created table of contents utilising {{auxiliary Table of Contents}} on the root page. The edition detail that is on the top of each page may be better poked into the header and then utilised in the notes field of each subpage. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:50, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: I am giving it a look-through... There might be another option with subpage-creation. I'll get back on this soon... Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:44, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

The "Index" is actually a TOC, and is labeled "Contents". Most of the "work" is divided up into a series of sketches &c., with occasional poems peppering certain "sections". An alt option for subpages would be to divide/title subpages thusly:

/Song [single poem] @p1
/Poetic Sketches - Series 1 [6 sketches & 4 poems] @p2
/Poetic Sketches - Series 2 [6 sketches] @p19
/Songs [3 poems] @p33
/Sketches ... Dagley [3 sketches] @p36
/Poetical Sketches - Series 3 [6 sketches & 1 poem] @p42
/Dramatic Scenes [2 scenes] @p70
/Fragments in Rhyme [11 fragments & 1 sonnet] @p78

But then we would lose the ability to add edition details for each individual piece in the notes sections. For this reason, I am leaning toward Billinghurst's method, but would like to solicit a third opinion... @Beeswaxcandle:? Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:01, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Esme, I see you have already begun transclusion... For a Mainspace title, I would follow the title used in the scan as Billinghurst suggested above (Poems in The London Gazette during the year 1822 by Letitia Elizabeth Landon (L. E. L.) the poet everyone is talking about)... modifying that as you see fit, as it is rather long... But ".pdf" need not be in the title for a Mainspace page. I have further opinions, but am reticent to offer them currently. I will leave it to you to seek further inquiry as you see fit. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:16, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I am playing it by ear and will post again if I get stuck Esme Shepherd (talk) 17:19, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Gotcha. Sometimes we learn better that way. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:20, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 16:30, 14 March 2017 (UTC) I have transcluded Landon in The Literary Gazette 1822/Poetic Sketches - Sketch Third but the second page is left aligned even though both pages are centred using center block/s and center block/e in Pages and appear correctly centred there. Why is this?

Poem tag needed to be inside {{center block/s}} template on this page. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:47, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Also, subpages should have the same base title as the title page Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:59, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 17:10, 14 March 2017 (UTC) Oh dear - it might be easier to make new header pages at this stage

Move pages rather than convert to a redirect[edit]

As each Wikisource page ha an underlying identifier AND is linked at Wikidata, we would encourage you to move the page, then convert the created redirect into a disambiguation page. Converting an existing page into a redirect causes issues. Also to think about pages on watchlists, etc. Knowledge for next time. :-) Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:25, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

  • Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:24, 23 April 2017 (UTC) I was a little worried about this but surely only one page can have any particular name. It would be better if you discouraged editors from using page titles that are NOT UNIQUE to the work they are posting. I'm not sure I understand what you mean by moving a page. Can you explain, please?
    Let me start with the reading material
    • Help:Disambiguation about how we manage works with the same title. Unfortunately it is not possible to preclude any title, so we plan for how we manage this.
    • w:Help:Move WP's nice text on how to do a move ... using the dropdown More > Move.
    Please ping me with questions. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:49, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 09:46, 24 April 2017 (UTC) Thanks, I noticed that disambiguation pages state "If an article link referred you here, please consider editing it to point directly to the intended page." and I was hoping that would solve the issue. I will try your recommended route if the issue arises again. I wasn't expecting to find common titles usurped so frequently.

Yes, we do have legacy issues, and there was an earlier conversation (years ago) about pushing harder for extended titles to a nomenclature, however, it was just going to be doomed to failure, especially when putting in wikilinks in something like DNB. The reference on the disambig page is meant to indicate that you should put the link to where the work is (or might be) hence why we will set up "Dawn (Smith)" and play loose with redirects. There is no perfect way to do this. <shrug> — billinghurst sDrewth 16:16, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Image issues[edit]

Esme Shepherd (talk) 10:16, 28 April 2017 (UTC) I am in the process of proofreading "Improvisatrice. pdf", which I picked up at page 91 this morning. When I reached page 95, I found no image. The images up to 94 are all present and correct but after that, all the pages show the following message:
Error generating thumbnail:
Error creating thumbnail: Reading profile /etc/firejail/mediawiki-converters.profile Reading profile /etc/firejail/mediawiki-converters.profile �]0;firejail /usr/bin/convert -depth 8 -quality 95 -resize 1240 - /tmp/transform_66e513481da5.jpg �convert: no decode delegate for this image format `' @ error/constitute.c/ReadImage/501. convert: no images defined `/tmp/transform_66e513481da5.jpg' @ error/convert.c/ConvertImageCommand/3210. Parent pid 3374, child pid 3376 Parent is shutting down, bye...
Esme Shepherd (talk) 10:37, 28 April 2017 (UTC) P.S. This has only happened today. Yesterday, all the images were visible. Therefore, it must be some kind of glitch, which hopefully can be resolved.

@Hesperian, @Samwilson: either of you have an opinion worth sharing? Noting that it is Index:Improvisatrice.pdf. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:14, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
@Beleg Tâl: and another — billinghurst sDrewth 16:59, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Hello, @Billinghurst: the problem is already known, I also see it in the yesterday's evening, and Beleg Tâl as well. See the topic on the Scriptorium/Help: Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help#Problems_with_File:Special_301_Report_2014.pdf. And Beleg Tâl kindly assisted with the problem and registered an issue on the Phabricator (as marked on the Scriptorium's Help). Now waiting the solution (maybe it'll come soon). Regards, Nigmont (talk) 17:46, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Yes, tracked at task T164045. I just put a note at WS:S as well to make sure people know about it. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:29, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
Resolved. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:49, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Improvisatrice transclusion[edit]

Hi, I was going through your transclusion. It seems that it does not conform to the convention here. You can compare with other works. For example:

  1. The name of the work, as per title page, is The Improvisatrice and Other Poems; but you have named it Improvisatrice (L. E. L.). I could not understand the reason.
  2. Title, printers, frontispiece, front, title page, advertisement, contents 1, contents 2 — this whole lot should be transcluded together. Is there any reason for separate transclusion, contrary to the custom here?
  3. There is no serial number of the items in the contents portion. Wherefrom did you get those serial numbers?
  4. Was there any reason to split the last stanza (after the rule) of Hindoo Girl's Song and shift it to Indian Bride?
  5. The pdf file itself seems to be artificially created, and not the 1824 version. An 1825 version is available at

Hrishikes (talk) 16:10, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 19:20, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

  • My compilation is based on the 1824 edition but to avoid duplication and to direct readers to actual sources, I have not duplicated the poems that are already transcluded from The Literary Gazette. That is why I avoided the actual title. There are, I know, other works entitled The Improvisatrice.
  • I am happy to put all the lead pages together. I wasn't sure about this but I would prefer it anyway.
  • The contents are linked to this volume or to the Literary Gazette collections, as dated.
  • The passage after Hindoo Girl's Song is a linking section, a part of the Improvisatrice's monologue that seems too short to require a separate page. It leads into and announces The Indian Bride, so it surely ought to be included there.

Esme Shepherd (talk) 20:27, 1 May 2017 (UTC)

  • Would you like me to add an explanatory header. I have provisionally prepared one in Category: Letitia Landon's Poetry.
Duplication of works are found in plenty in this site. They are normally treated as different versions or editions of the same work. Portions are not to be removed from the file. If there is some copyright problem for a particular page, that page can be blackened, but not removed. Even blank pages are not to be removed. As for the name, there may be other works named The Improvisatrice, but is there another work named The Improvisatrice and Other Poems? (the "other poems" portion is not to be ignored). The name in the title page should match the name of the work in the main namespace, except in exceptional cases, where contrary justification exists. Please pick some random works here and go through them, as well as the help pages, for a better understanding of the procedure here. Hrishikes (talk) 14:25, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

Complete source works[edit]

Esme Shepherd (talk) 18:43, 2 May 2017 (UTC)

  • I have one in hand but have some issues before uploading - The title is incidentally 'The Troubadour; Catalogue of Pictures, and Historical Sketches' and the file will so be named if that is what is required.
  • There are issues with Tables of Contents - try as I will I can find no way of reproducing the columnar format of these tables in Wikisource. I have examined quite a number of cases but none help to reproduce the requisite format in cases such as this. The whole thing seems to be a nightmare.
  • The other issue with the Table of Contents is that the original, which it appears I am required somehow to reproduce, is designed for an in the hand book and is utterly useless as an aid to navigating an electronic book in Wikisource. Have you given any thought to this? Item one - page 1; item two - page 257. Really?
No one has said that you need to reproduce the TOC exactly. But the file should be uploaded as is, without editing the contents of the pages (except in special and justifiable circumstances), so that the original can be verified by any reader from the side-by-side display of scan and transcription. This verifiability is the whole point of our exercise of scan-backed proofreading. Hrishikes (talk) 00:21, 3 May 2017 (UTC)


Esme Shepherd (talk) 10:43, 29 August 2017 (UTC) I am a little frustrated to find that when using dropinitial decorated capitals in poetry, center block does not work. Lines are split prematurely and the right hand side of the page is never reached. I am therefore forced to inset all lines using gaps and this can go on for pages!

Usually you will get better response at Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help, and it would be useful if you can give examples of pages where you have tried something so others can look directly what you have tried. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:39, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

More Image Issues[edit]

Of the 99 images in Fisher's drawing room scrap book Plates, 15 are not showing on the Category page. At first they were also not appearing on pages, but now they are. They do appear when clicked to view. At first, one of the Fisher's drawing room scrap book Signatures was acting in the same way, but this has corrected. Esme Shepherd (talk) 14:46, 30 August 2017 (UTC) I should add that this problem arose sometime yesterday.

I am not sure how anyone would be expected to address such a statement, the information is incomplete, and there are no links. People are unlikely to do the legwork to interpret your question rather than answer it. And again, your user talk page is not the ideal place for the community to respond to questions. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:02, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
Sorry but this error clearly must relate to the change made in the media viewer and it is hardly likely to be confined to my images alone. Esme Shepherd (talk) 11:51, 31 August 2017 (UTC)


Thought that I would point you to {{fqm}}. It may be useful for some of the poetry type work that you have been doing. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:09, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 16:58, 22 January 2018 (UTC) Thanks, I think I have used it once, although inset quotes seem to be most usual in the period in which I am working.

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LEL excerpted works[edit]

Hello! In Wikisource:What Wikisource includes (with regard to excerpts), it states that "selected selections ... are generally not accepted." I came across this Index and noted that the poems contained within the work were excerpted/compiled from a larger work. I further wondered about the compilation/compiler, and whether they had placed the work of selected poems itself into the public domain. There is no external link to any such claim at the Index talk page or elsewhere (that I noted). I am not well versed on copyright, but remembering a past issue where a contributor asserted that there may be possible protections on compilations (with regard to order, etc.), I was curious. Not concerned, just curious. Thanks for any input :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:40, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:46, 6 May 2018 (UTC) Firstly, the compiler is myself and I am quite happy to have my compilations in the public domain. The reason for the excerpts is that the whole volume (in this case The Casket) contains numerous works by a number of authors, none of which are relevant to this particular Category, namely Letitia Elizabeth Landon. Indeed, some of my compilations have had to be garnered from a variety of other sources where the original volume is just not available. My aim by these means is to maximise the usefulness of Wikisource.

I understand. Using myself as an example, I have transcribed many fugitive pieces by Florence Earle Coates that were parts of other works containing various authors. If the complete work was not available at Wikisource, or if it was unlikely that it ever would be in one's lifetime, I transcribed the work as in the original (or as close as possible) and supplied a link in the Mainspace notes or on the Talk page to any reference available online. Then list the work on the Author page. I am sympathetic to being willing to have one's compilations in the public domain, for that was my introduction to Wikisource, and I was met with my compilation being a candidate for proposed deletion :) Not saying that will be the case with any of your efforts, but my uninformed instinct is that works hosted here need be handled 'differently'. I am just at a loss as to how to explain how exactly. I will think on it further. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:07, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:35, 6 May 2018 (UTC) I can say that the vast majority of my sources are scanned from originals found on line. I did have one issue with a small number of poems that could not be traced anywhere but in a modern 'hard' source, namely Sypher's Landon. Poems from Annuals. I enquired whether or not I could transcribe these and was told that would be okay. Of course I have credited that source, which is a book I do have in my possession.

Ok. I may be misunderstanding inclusion guidance, etc. As for the compilations, they seem to me to present a more nuanced issue. I don't have any clarity of thought about this at present, however. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:50, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

More image problems[edit]

Esme Shepherd (talk) 08:57, 2 June 2018 (UTC) I am experiencing image distortions when editing. These correct if I select 'show preview' but are nevertheless annoying. The issues are: 1. Image appears very squashed horizontally thus rendering it unreadable. 2. Image appears extremely enlarged, so that only a little of it can be seen.

Esme Shepherd (talk) 15:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC) This problem continues. Is everyone else having the same distortions or is it just me? If it is just me, why?

Poem about L. E. L.[edit]

Wondering if this poem by @Peteforsyth:'s Author:Frances Fuller Victor is not about 'your' Author:Letitia Elizabeth Landon? Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:53, 23 June 2018 (UTC)

Esme Shepherd (talk) 21:30, 23 June 2018 (UTC) Thank you, I sure you are right although the 'clang of armor' is a bit fanciful! Cape Coast Castle was merely a trading station by that time. The opening quote is from 'Claribel' by Tennyson, who was clearly (although this is rarely acknowledged) influenced by L. E. L..

Nice to see more connections made, thanks for the ping Londonjackbooks! -Pete (talk) 00:02, 24 June 2018 (UTC)