Wikisource:Administrators/Archives/Poetlister

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Warning Please do not post any new comments on this page. This is a discussion archive collecting requests for restricted access by Poetlister. See current discussion or the archives index.

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[edit] Poetlister

[edit] 2008-05 admin

Poetlister (talk • contribs) Analysis

Poetlister has been working on Wikisource since early December 2007, and has amassed 1400 edits. Poetlister's user page lists a number of the larger projects completed and in progress, but most importantly the contribs show a broad application of skills required to administrator Wikisource, inc. adding license tags, patrolling (around ~600 changes marked as patrolled), welcoming users, participating in WS:CotW, etc. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:03, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I am delighted to accept.--Poetlister 11:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Note to closing bureaucrat: In view of discussions going on elsewhere, I stress that I am the same user as Poetlister on WP and elsewhere, and accept no responsibility for any other Wikimedia account.--Poetlister 11:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support as nom :-) Poetlister has been very active in a short time, and the only controversy I've seen being The Bell-Buoy : I think the outcome of that was very good - strong opinions are a good thing. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:02, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support, a quick look over Poetlister's recent contributions show good judgement and an attitude suitable for an administrator. In my very newbie opinion, I think Wikisource will benefit from having people like Poetlister as administrators. Cheers, Daniel (talk) 12:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support, was very surprised when I found out that Poetlister was not already an admin. I trust them with the tools. Suicidalhamster 12:28, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Yann 13:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support Poetlister is a very good editor, admin and bureaucrat on Wikiquote. If she brings the same conscientiousness and attention to detail here, she will be a fine admin.--Cato 21:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support. Absolutely, a good guy. giggy (:O) 10:59, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Support, CotW = fastest route to adminship. Take note newbies! Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: William Lyon Mackenzie King 01:49, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support I trust Poetlister, and I recognize the good work she has done here. For the bureaucrat's advisement, Poetlister informed me of this RFA in an email but did not ask me to comment. Shalom 01:54, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support --Jusjih 02:26, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support.--GrafZahl (talk) 13:27, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Support per consensus above and having seen contributions. --Kelsington 11:12, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
    • Thank you all very much.--Poetlister 21:25, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2008-09 vote of confidence (failed)

status administrator since 05 May 2008 (unanimous)
activity active (Quillercouch: contributions,logs; Cato: contributions, logs)
discussions

Due to recent information that has been disclosed at meta:Requests for comments/Poetlister and Cato, it is now common knowledge that the person behind the Wikisource accounts Poetlister (recently renamed to Quillercouch), Cato, Yehudi and Bedivere are presumed to be the same person, and there may be more accounts.

There has not been a lot of abuse by these accounts on Wikisource, however as one is an admin, there is the matter of trust to be re-evaluated.

Per our policy for votes on confidence, three people have supported the need for this recall at Wikisource:Scriptorium#Poetlister, where more information and a more general discussion is ongoing. Until this matter has been decided by 'crat Zhaladshar, the admin account Quillercouch is required to not use the tools.

Voting on this matter should be delayed for a reasonable period in order to give the named accounts sufficient time to respond at Wikisource:Scriptorium#Poetlister and/or meta:Requests for comments/Poetlister and Cato. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

  • Comment, an administrator may or may not have multiple accounts; but is not alleged to have abused them in any meaningful fashion (once responded to their own query to bolster "support", nothing else?). Either way, I don't see how this is relevant to Wikisource; where only one account is an administrator. (I see the issue where a user has two admin accounts, but an admin and a regular or three? I don't see any loss of my trust in their actions). Am I missing a large piece of the puzzle? Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Charles Spurgeon 05:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
    I have provided more details at Wikisource:Scriptorium#Poetlister; please comment there, as this is a proper recall request. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:02, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I don't feel comfortable with this person having the admin tools. Giggy (talk) 07:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I echo the above, for now. While there hasn't strictly been abuse here, new evidence suggests that this user is not trustworthy as a person, negating their separate user: records on individual wikis. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 08:56, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment — John's last on ws:s about the photo, here, is a clincher. This seems to be a photo of some young woman used without her consent to perpetuate a fraud; here, Commons, all over the wiki-verse. I have read the meta discussions — at least as of a hour ago. It is damning and it wends its way into many wikis. And I've not seen a peep out of this user about people's concerns. I believe the Quillercouch account should be immediately de-sysoped and the others blocked for good. And if a response is not presented soon, block Q, too. No trust, here. I'm all for second chances, and this one was squandered. Jack Merridew 10:19, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
    amended the above to be a 'comment' per John's comments below. Jack Merridew 08:55, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
    striking the 'comment' — consider this a de-sysop opinion. Jack Merridew 14:40, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I supported the candidacies of Poetlister and of Cato elsewhere (although I did not support Poetlister here) out of an assumption of good faith. That good faith was apparently misplaced. Until and unless this is satisfactorily resolved in a way that demonstrates that the multiple identities correspond to multiple real people who are genuinely participants, and who genuinely want to be participants (an outcome that on the face of the evidence so far given seems exceedingly unlikely) in WMF projects, it is time to withdraw that assumption, that sanction. Therefore I support this recall. As with Giggy, I don't feel comfortable with this person having the admin tools here. Or anywhere, for that matter. Although John asked that voting be delayed, I instead suggest that if there is a change in circumstances, (a satisfactory explanation being offered) I will change my vote. Until then, this vote stands. ++Lar: t/c 12:12, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
    • Make that "change my prospective vote" per John's reiterated request. ++Lar: t/c 18:01, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I don't know Poetlister, but from the overwhelming evidence I cannot trust them. If the actions were contained to one or two names, that would be one thing, but this.... it really makes me feel sick. Ottava Rima (talk) 12:43, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Comment I think we need to give Poetlister a week to respond to all this. I strongly believe that when anyone does not offer an explanation for something like this a message needs to be sent that stonewalling will not be tolerated. However the flip side of this is that in order to encourage people to explain themselves we should withold judging them while we are ignorant of their response. So please give this a little time, and make it as easy as possible for Poetlister to feel comfortable sharing their thoughts on this. The best outcome is that we can learn something as project from this situation, and that requires knowing not only what happened but why it happened.--BirgitteSB 13:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
    • I would agree with the above. There's no rush here, and it seems only fair Poetlister is given a good chance to respond and explain themselves. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 14:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
    • I agree; I set up this section so it was plain the recall vote will happen, due to having three established members who have called for it, but I would like people to refrain from voting here until we have a statement from Poetlister, and I have good reason to believe a proper reply will come from Poetlister if given a little time. John Vandenberg (chat) 14:06, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
      • For the record, I don't wish for my initial comment to be considered a vote, but rather a statement of my belief that this forum and this discussion is something that needs to take place and that there is a problem that needs solving here. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 14:16, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
        • Sure, happy to hear from them. My initial comment can be taken as a vote unless something convincing comes up. Giggy (talk) 00:45, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Given the evidence, I don't trust this person to so much as edit a page, much less to be an administrator. I will, of course, revisit this opinion once Poetlister speaks up, but until then, I have no confidence in Poetlister as an administrator. EVula // talk // 19:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
    • Follow-up Poetlister/Cato has spoken. My belief that he/she/it/they/whatever should be stripped of all additional user rights is as strong as ever. EVula // talk // 22:09, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desyssop. I was involved in the investigation and this evidence is very convincing. If you're interested in links ask me or check my meta contribs. That this user got so far for so long doing this stuff and so high in the wiki hierarchy is scary. — Rlevse • Talk • 21:51, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop. The sysop tools are but one bit, are given to trusted users, and are intended to help the project. When users approach admins, they should expect to be dealing with someone in whom the community has expressed their trust. The questions of misleading conduct and other behaviour concern me. Per John, this discussion should not be closed until after Poetlister has provided their own version of events, unless they specifically/unambiguously decline to. Orderinchaos (talk) 07:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Warn and Watch Closely, I haven't seen any evidence of WS sysop tools being misused - he vote-stacked, which merits a stern warning. However, his actions on outside projects are irrelevant to his actions on this project where he is a great help, and a fine administrator. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Albert Schweitzer 20:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
  • After all that's gone on, all over the place, I don't think I would trust this user with the tools. SQLQuery me! 07:29, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop. The person behind these accounts started the many different accounts with different personas with the intent to deceive and manipulate other users. This is absolutely not compatible with a position of trust. Aware that sockpupperty happened in the past, but hoping that PL had turned over a new leaf, last April the Wikipedi-en ArbCom unblocked the PL account on WP-en with restrictions and the understanding that monitoring would occur. Through this monitoring and with collaboration with checkusers across multiple wikis, the massive deception was revealed. Given that this user was given a chance to reform once before and abused this trust, I do not think retaining the tools is an option here or any other wiki. I also recommend at minimum a 90 day ban so that the checkusers do not immediately need to look for socks, something that they must do if regularly if this user is allow to contribute here. After 90 days, the decision can be made about whether the editor is welcome back and if any other restrictions are needed. FloNight (talk) 21:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop (per FloNight). Hesperian 23:30, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I have no confidence in this adminship. In the past week I have seen no explanation offered from Poerlister/Quillercouch or anyone else than can satisfy my concerns over the situation on Wikisource combined with the pattern of behavior behind very similar situations outside of Wikisource and the history of outright falsehoods told to members of the Wikisource community. Whatever the purpose of gaining adminship here was, I cannot be confident it was simple or benevolent. I understand why some people here do not feel a betrayal of confidence that others might. But I can't have confidence in Poetlister/Quillercouch. I can't support their continued adminship.--BirgitteSB 00:23, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Remove with no prejudice - Take it away from him. However, I am willing to start afresh, if he is too. Should he prove himself to be able to rise up and stop this abuse, I'd be willing to review him as effectively a new user following continued good behaviour. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 05:54, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop. Poetlister has created a network of accounts[1] and used some of them to cast multiple ballots (for example [2], [3]). Furthermore, it appears they have lost overview over their own account network[4][5]. Therefore I do not trust this sysop any more.--GrafZahl (talk) 09:04, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop and block indefinitely. See my comments here. This is not a question of deciding whether the improvements he made to the site are more important than a few rules that he broke. This is someone who used Wikimedia sites to hurt real people - stealing the identities of innocent women, uploading their photos under a "free" licence without their consent, linking at least one of these identities to an interest in sexual fetishes, using Wikiquote and Wikisource as a means of gaining respectability on Wikipedia, and of gaining access to sensitive information. As I said on Scriptorium, if Matthew Arnold's poems (or Shelley's or whoever's) are so important to Wikisource that we need to slap his victims in the face by saying that the content he was adding is more important than what he did to them right here at these sites, just give me a list of poems we're missing, and I'll start adding them myself - today! If someone is edit warring and being disruptive on talk pages, reaching the level of inviting a ban, we can take the risk of taking them back without compelling evidence of reformation, because it's not such a big deal if they continue, and they can be re-banned. This IS a big deal - so where is the compelling evidence that he has changed? And evidence shows that the abuse would be continued in a sneaky way, so we wouldn't be as aware of it as in the case of an edit warrior or a vandal. He was given a chance to reform before. Given the the type of conduct he engaged in, it would be irresponsible to give him a third chance. Stratford490 (talk) 10:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop I find it hard to trust a user who who has abused multiple accounts with admin rights. I do not. however, support a block as Poetlister has contributed constructively to Wikimedia project. Anonymous101 (talk) 15:18, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop for activities directly related to adminship. No to a general block or ban. Ask that he restrict himself to one account for the near future until it is clear that his "lost overview" (to use Graf Zahl's term) has been recovered. Eclecticology (talk) 16:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop. He lied to me about the license of those image, which is against the most fundamental core content policy here, and did it unnecessarily in order to continue to use his fraudulent identity, which by this time was abusing multiple rights on Wikiquote in disregard to the social frabric of a WMF wiki. Only after Wikimedians from across many projects invested a disproportionate amount of time to bring this to a head did he admit it. The corrective action we are seeing is the culmination of immense amount of work and persistence by many people. In this process, he has also lied to English Wikipedia Arbcom, and lied to the English Wikipedia and English Wikiquote community on a scale rarely seen. I will not discount the importance of his actions on other WMF projects just because they did not occur on Wikisource, as it was only a matter of time based on the prior path and my bent on nominating users that appear to know what they are doing. John Vandenberg (chat) 18:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop and block the abandoned sock Special:Contributions/Cato and Special:Contributions/Quillercouch, show that user appears to have abandoned this admin sock, the editor has admitted to using socks Diff and apologized for their behavior, with no indication of usage that is acceptable by wiki culture (other then qualities edits, that are a product of the individual, who has chosen to edit as User:Cato after abandoning the socks). Jeepday (talk) 00:12, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop User:Quillercouch and indefinitely block User:Cato as the newer and less-used persona. Also indefinitely block User:Yehudi and User:Bedivere and any of the other names listed at [6] that may exist at Wikisource. The lack of overt abuse here at Wikisource is the only reason not to ban this user in all his incarnations completely. There's no reason he shouldn't be allowed to keep uploading poetry, but I am not comfortable allowing him to, say, view deleted versions of user pages that may contain personal information. And although there are legitimate reasons for multiple accounts, this user has shown across Wikimedia Projects that he can't be trusted with them. Angr 21:59, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
  • Desysop User:Quillercouch. This last discovery of him requested whitelist status for his sock makes it quite clear that He seems that he intented to play with here too. I also think that his socks should be blocked too, after he says which account he wants to keep. Yann (talk) 22:29, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
  • I am closing this vote and requesting on Meta for having admin rights removed from Quillercouch.—Zhaladshar (Talk) 01:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


Comments
I'd like to make it clear that someone of high access is going to have to eventually bring conclusion to this discussion. I'm assuming we want a bureaucrat to do this, and nothing short? If so, since we have so few bureaucrats in this community, it seems logical that the closing bureaucrat is going to have to remove themselves from the proceedings here for this to be partial closure. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 10:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Furthermore, the request will need to be forwarded after closre to Meta here, if the consensus does in fact turn out to be "desysop". —Anonymous DissidentTalk 10:39, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
I request Z to act as b'crat here during my first comment in the Scriptorium discussion.--BirgitteSB 13:52, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I saw that you did, and John makes note that Z will close the vote in his above opening comment. The numerical way the confidence vote is set up here makes the decision clear. I applaud this leadership of this community for putting this clear system in place. FloNight (talk) 14:05, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
(ec) re removal: While Z has made some comments on the issue he has been less involved than I have (and I promoted the first adminship also). But it is not unusual to have b'crats speaking up during an important issue that they then must close. We don't have so many community memebers that the thoughts of anyone of them are unneeded in the hearing of important discussions.--BirgitteSB 14:09, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm! This is not a point that I addressed; there must be some mistake in seeming to respond to me. I have not been critical of the way you have handled this issue. Eclecticology (talk) 16:03, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
"(ec)" means "edit conflict". John Vandenberg (chat) 17:37, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
Ah! "Ec" Eclecticology (talk)
I'm willing to close this vote when it is needed, which leads me to the following question: since this is the first time we've had a non-automatic confidence vote, how long should it last? I don't think it should go the whole month, just because of the nature of this discussion. How would one or two weeks be?—Zhaladshar (Talk) 17:40, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
A week should be enough. As per Birgitte's suggestion the vote started on the 15th, but it had a long lead-up. There seems to be a strong trend about the syssop bit, even if the other proposals are more divided. Eclecticology (talk) 22:42, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
I would also support a week as long enough, as Eclecticology say's there has been long lead up. Jeepday (talk) 00:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
FYI some Wikiquotians suggested even an early close based on w:WP:SNOW, which I mildly resisted. On sysop bits the trend looks obvious here as well as on ours. One week sounds long enough. --Aphaia (talk) 01:25, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Just an FYI - I stumbled across this edit [7] where Quillercouch while he was Poetlister, requested whitelist status for his sock Cato. Jeepday (talk) 12:26, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
It was denied by John, however. Giggy (talk) 01:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
I had forgotten about this. At the time, I was aware that Cato was a sock, and that played a part my decision. John Vandenberg (chat) 05:16, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
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