Template talk:EB1911 Fine Print

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@DivermanAU: @Billinghurst: I am thinking of changing the setting of font-size to "smaller" rather than "90%". On some platforms, "90%" may be approximated by "100%". In any case, I don't think we are looking to make things look the same as in EB1911, but analagous, so people can easily differentiate the regular from the fine-print passages, and I think the "smaller" setting is more likely to do this reliably. I don't think the "line-height" setting is effective anymore. Setting "display: inline-block" may be needed, but this can result in linefeeds between adjacent invocations of this template, which is undesirable. So I don't think the display setting should be used in this context. Library Guy (talk) 17:19, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Hi @Library Guy: and @Billinghurst:, thanks for creating a discussion on this. My thoughts are that the current 90% is small enough, (I measured the actual size of Fine Print to about 92% on a scanned image of the EB1911). If it's smaller than 90%, the text can become hard to read, particularly with subscripts etc. which is not uncommon in the References in Fine Print at end of article (I've included XVIIle in the samples below - which is the French method displaying 17th which I've seen a few times in Fine Print. I recently saw “part 2a” in Fine Print on Page:EB1911 - Volume 05.djvu/303.
This is a test line of text - The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. XVIIle part 2a - standard size
This is a test line of text - The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. XVIIle part 2a - Fine Print size (currently 90%)
This is a test line of text - The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog. XVIIle part 2a - smaller size
My vote would be to keep the Fine Print size as it currently stands; I feel if it's any smaller it is harder to read (particularly for the ever-increasing ageing population) and becomes too different from the printed version. — DivermanAU (talk) 02:13, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
It would be my opinion that the word font size chosen should align with the templates (fine/smaller/x-smaller/larger) and the same variations with line height in (smaller/larger/... block) as these are what the community has chosen through experimentation/discussion, see the results at template:smaller/doc. Consistency is important. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:56, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
@DivermanAU: @Billinghurst: The discussion at {{smaller}} was helpful. So I think we could align this with the "fine" setting at 92%. It seems we could just redirect this template to {{fine}}. Library Guy (talk) 15:59, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Wondering whether {{fine block}} may be more appropriate as it has line space, and it is for a div. OR we can just get a bot to go through and to replace. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:41, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
As a further point of reference the DNB project uses {{smaller block}} at the end of articles, eg. Darwin, Charles Robert (DNB00) 22:52, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

There is no EB1911 fine print/c[edit]

For text which is split across two pages, the template documentation recommends using {{EB1911 Fine Print/s}} and {{EB1911 Fine Print/e}}. But without a corresponding {{EB1911 Fine Print/c}}, how do I use them? --Siddhant (talk) 04:06, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Should this be a block template[edit]

This is a span-based template, which means it:

  • Can't change the line height as advertised
  • Should not contain any block-based content, including other block-formatting templates like {{block center}} or paragraph breaks, which is not documented (except incorrectly to say you can "sometimes" run paragraph together in one template call: this throws linter errors, though it does at least render out, edit: for now, this will break when the parser changes)

The /s and /e variants are block-based (they use divs) and they do change the line height as advertised. It seems a bit strange that this is the case as /s/e variants generally don't have different rendering to the "plain" variant.

Is there any use of this template in-line? I've only seen pages where it is applied to a whole paragraph, where a div can be used. I'm not quite sure how to check, short of downloading the wikitext for each page it's used on and making sure this template is at a line start. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 23:33, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

I agree. If this template is really needed, I would create a div based version and substitute it, as I guess it is mostly used with paragraph breaks. And if cases are found where this is really needed, they can be handled as they happen. — Mpaa (talk) 20:53, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
There appear to be a few places where this template is used in a non-block way:
I'm trying to generate a list of these usages, but it's a bit of a faff! Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 11:48, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
Here is a first shot at such a list, taken from nearly 20000 just over 15000 template usages, there are only about 250 "suspicious" usages, mostly from titles and page-continuations: User:Inductiveload/Maintenance/Suspicious EB911 Fine Print usages. It's still not clear to me that there are any valid uses of this template as a span, though there are certainly places where, due to template misuse, converting to div will break things currently. Fixing usages in these pages should make it possible to replace with a div-based one. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 13:14, 17 April 2018 (UTC)

Please change span to div[edit]

This template is used with paragraph breaks and note that once Tidy is replaced with RemexHtml by end of June, the styling will no longer apply to anything beyond the first paragraph and your rendering will break. You can see this here. On the left, you see the current rendering. On the right, you see the new rendering.

To address this, you should replace the span tag with a div tag. I would have done this myself but I see that User:JustinCB's edits to do this were reverted by User:EncycloPetey.

SSastry (WMF) (talk) 19:24, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

See discussion in previous section on this issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:27, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
I see. Looks like you don't want editors to use this template where multiple paragraphs are involved. Anyway, I suppose when Tidy is removed and the rendering breaks, editors will fix those uses? But, Special:LintErrors/html5-mesnesting gives you the list of pages affected. There are a fair number of entries against this and against Template:Fine which is affected similarly. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 19:50, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
The template {{fine}} is supposed to be a span template, and does not need to be fixed. We have {{fine block}} which is a div template. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:03, 16 April 2018 (UTC)
Got it. I am mostly pointing out that there are several pages which seem to be using these templates incorrectly and will need to be fixed - otherwise their rendering will be different than intended once Tidy is replaced. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 03:52, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
Perhaps it should have "display:inline-block;" added to the style="", though, so it could still change the line height(but still it wouldn't work across paragraphs). JustinCB (talk) 14:48, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
I'm not going to make that change though because I got a real stern warning about changing templates. JustinCB (talk) 14:50, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
@SSastry (WMF): What do you think about making it inline-block ? JustinCB (talk) 17:54, 25 April 2018 (UTC)
@JustinCB: User:EncycloPetey is suggesting that all those individual pages that use these templates incorrectly should be fixed instead to use the right block-based template. So, either a bot or editors would have to do that fix. Or, this will happen post-June after Tidy is replaced everywhere and editors see the change in rendering. SSastry (WMF) (talk) 18:38, 25 April 2018 (UTC)