User talk:Dovi

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My talk archives: Archive 1 (to April 2006) | Archive 2 (to March 2008)

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hebrew text[edit]

Hi, could you add the Hebrew text at the top of Page:JPS1917-Torah.djvu/7. Thanks, --John Vandenberg (chat) 06:07, 29 September 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Done. Dovi (talk) 02:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:23, 2 October 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I see you had a user page made at fy: Wikibooks. Do you understand Frisian? If not, do you mind if I put a babel box on your page saying so? (Please be so kind to answer at my fy: Wikibooks talk page; it may be a while before I come here again.) Aliter (talk) 17:18, 4 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Thanks for noticing and improving Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar!

  1. Any contribution is good, but please take note of the comments at the main project page: Index:Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar (1910 Kautzsch-Cowley edition).djvu. In a word: I want to mark this book up semantically, for convenient future indexing and cross-referencing. Ambitious, i know, but quite possible. I am still building the templates for it, but they are already becoming stable.
  2. Maybe you will have an idea about the technical problem that we have here: MediaWiki talk:Edittools#Hebrew cursor problem. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:33, 21 December 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]


I created a new template: {{CGJ}}. You may find it interesting. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 17:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

proofreadpage rtl[edit]

Hi Dovi,

I have finally fixed the proofreadpage extension for RTL languages; only the zoom was not working well. I believe the rest is ok.

In addition, you can choose to split the page horizontally during edition (like on , if you set the following variable :

var proofreadpage_default_layout='horizontal';

this setting can be activated by single users, or for all users if it set in common.js

I hope you enjoy it!

ThomasV (talk) 13:21, 22 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Thomas, thanks for your efforts!
I gave it a try at the only sample page we have for that, namely he:עמוד:Bavli Ber 02a.jpg. Before the magnification didn't work so well, but no clicking gives no magnification at all (?). Tried in both Firefox and Explorer.
In the meantime we've gotten rather lazy, incorporating pages images in this way: he:כלכלת השבת. That may be the simplest solution for some texts, but there others that proofreadpage is perfectly designed for, such as the "page" example above (a major text that is classically published with standardized pages). It is a great tool, and you deserve a lot of credit for it. Dovi (talk) 17:56, 23 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I removed the zoom except in edit mode (see scriptorium) ThomasV (talk) 08:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Gday. The work Mikraot Gedolot is currently moribund, greatly incomplete, and in need of headers, etc. I am wondering whether there are plans to continue the work or whether it is now no longer of priority/importance. Thx. billinghurst (talk) 07:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi. The Hebrew version is huge. The question is when someone will want to take up translation to English and do links; I suspect that here and there people will contribute, as they do to Mishnah. Dovi (talk) 07:16, 28 April 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]


An English translation of the entire text of Rashi is available at Would it be possible to obtain permission to copy it from there? How? And would we need to provide written proof that we received permission? --Y'hoshia (talk) 04:35, 6 October 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

typos in Aru"ch HaShulchan[edit]

Dear Dovi,

Great work you are doing -- thanx!

B"H, I go through bits and pieces of the printed Aruch HaShulchan, on a daily basis. When I see a typo, I note it to myself.

Today I saw one in a self-reference, and found the typo in Wikisource as well: Siman 69, Síf 11, the reference to Siman 105, should be to Siman 55. And might I add that I easily found the correct location, due to your hard work, so, thanx again.

And about the other scores of typos in the text version -- any suggestion?


Aharon (

Hi Aharon. First of all thanks for the correction, which I implemented.
Second of all, it is fantastic that you have been noting typos in the printed edition. It would be totally amazing if you could create a user page for yourself at Hebrew Wikisource (you would need to sign in) and make a list of all the errors that you have found on your user page, so that we can all make use of your work and fix the online text.
In general, since the printed text is our source, I think it is prudent that when we find an error we leave it in the wikitext version in parenthesis (), and add the correction in square brackets [] as is customary. I have made such corrections here and there as I edited the digital text. However, in the case of a reference with a link that is hard to do, and it is probably OK to simply change it as I just did.
Also, if you find mistakes, you can also correct them yourself directly. Others will check and verify your work.
Thanks! Dovi (talk) 20:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Orach Chaim: Hanukkah stuff[edit]

Thanks for all of your work on the AH. Do you think that we could try to work on one particular group in Orach Chaim, and try to get that done, and have a more concentrated effort on something, such as one part of Orach Chaim? (I saw the new editions to Choshen Mishpat, which I also liked). Have a good shabbat. (Goldmanboys)

a new day[edit]

Hi Dovi, a message for when you return. With some sober reflection I can see how I could have done things better. It is not always possible to advance a view without offending some, but I should always make a greater to avoid it. I arrived at the introduction after attempting to make associated Help:pages more useful and felt that removing something that was an exception to a simple principle, that I recognise as controversial, was more helpful than a potential distraction to a new user. I now concede that you were correct with your comment, later in the piece, that I should challenge the 'policy' at that page. I believe that making firm policies at the early stages of the site's development lacked enough input and views to justify the term 'consensus', I still doubt whether we have enough regular users to create one now. I am surprised that there are so few regulars, though I know how difficult it is to find useful ways to contribute and imagine that barriers remain for new and ip user's contributions. It is the latter who may think it is appropriate to grab a translation from their shelf and add it here, detecting when this has occurred could be extremely difficult, so these users should be provided with clear guidelines on how they can easily get started and introduce themselves to the site. I am very appreciative of the early efforts to get the site up and running, because I love the place, you had a part in that. Cygnis insignis (talk) 03:10, 30 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I made some more comments, by intersecting yours, let me know if you want a neater version to post elsewhere. 'ave a good one translates as "I hope you have a nice day" Cygnis insignis (talk) 17:22, 25 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Arukh haShulchan[edit]


Thanks for your comments. I know you're referring to my edit summary here. I agree that it was thoughtless of me, and I do appreciate the efforts of people like Goldmanboys who give of their time for the public good. I actually thought better of the comment after I wrote it. I think I might be able to remove it with admin tools, but I'd rather let it be to remind myself to be less cranky and more thoughtful in the future.

As to the source text, you are of course right. Hebrew Wikisource has copies of many classic Jewish texts, and I should have realized they would have the Arukh haShulchan.

I appreciate your contributions here as well. I know you are a long-time contributor, and you have much good work to your name. That Mishneh Torah index is beautiful. (and well-sourced!)

As far as translation quality goes, I think it would be appropriate to make use of the text quality markers as has been done in the Mishnah project. Thus, an incomplete translation is "25%", a complete one is "50%", a reviewed one is "75%" and a doubly-reviewed one is "100%" Notes are nice, too.

I wish you continued good health and success in your work. --Eliyak T·C 03:11, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The possible lack in the percentage markers (25%, 50%, etc.) is that they really seem to deal with quantity, not quality: How much of the text exists? Or how much of it has been proofread (for English-language texts)?
It would seem that we need to mark quality and quantity separately: Even if a chapter has been fully translated, that may still be a very rough draft. The "Flagged revisions" extensions has a built-in rating system for three layers: Completeness (i.e. quantity), Accuracy (in Wikisource this might mean proofreading or validating a translation), and aesthetics (page formatting, illustrations, etc.). It would seem to me that we could create a fairly simple template tailored to translations that would facilitate ratings for at least the first two elements. What do you think? Dovi (talk) 07:28, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

I still feel that the {{TextQuality}} markers are sufficient. Nevertheless, I have created {{translation}}, What do you think? --Eliyak T·C 14:49, 2 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Gesenius - the real proofreading begins[edit]


I finished the painstaking work of basic formatting for the table of contents and all of the paragraphs of Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar. Now most inter-paragraph links are supposed to work, which should save the students of Biblical Hebrew a lot of page-turning time :)

You are welcome to proof-read it. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:05, 26 February 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]



{{GHGbible-ref}} still links the chapter numbers to King James Bible. Now that i applied it almost on every page where it was needed, it's about time to make it link to something more useful: a Tanakh in Hebrew.

Currently a link to the chapter is enough, although it would be nice to link directly to a verse or maybe to highlight the needed verse(s).

Notice also that it links to apocryphal and New Testament books in a few places, but if it's too hard to use the same template for this, i can just replace it with a different template.

Do you have ideas about doing it?

Thanks in advance. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:38, 5 March 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Dovi. This work is askew, and I think that it needs to be moved to Likutey Halakhot but I cannot work it out, nor who is the author. etc. Is this anything close to something that you think you could fix? Thanks. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:55, 8 April 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I answered on my discussion page in[edit]

Greetings --Jmb1982 (talk) 21:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

New Project: Open Breslev Project[edit]

Shalom aleikhem!

Chazaq we'ematz on the Open Mishnah Project. Looks good and should be matzliach!

B"h after your project I've modeled the Wikisource:WikiProject_Open_Breslev

There is a [Hebrew Breslev Books] project that has been in progress, and I'm not quite sure how to get our project organized and also coordinated with the Hebrew one, in a nice and efficient manner.

And help or ideas you can offer for organizing Breslev would be much appreciated!

If people in the Mishnah project or other Judaica projects might be interested maybe you or I can announce this project to them?

Best, Nissim

How should translators be attributed? For example at different people may translate different chapters. If I put a header with translator=... by one chapter, it displays some blank fields. Nissimnanach (talk) 01:46, 19 April 2010 (UTC)NissimnanachReply[reply]

Regarding licensing: I followed your example and made pages GFDL. Billinghurst indicated this license is less prefered User_talk:Billinghurst#Breslev. What is your opinion on licensing? In line with the goal of free publication of Breslev works, I want to make them as free as possible but want to preclude things like people taking them and making them copyrighted, or publishing works for profit and leaving translators out of a cut, etc. I'm not so knowledgable regarding these issues so any thoughts are appreciated. Also, he said there that all works should have their own licenses but I don't see licenses on your mishnah pages.? Chazaq w'ematz. 19:49, 21 April 2010 (UTC)NissimnanachReply[reply]

Arukh ha-Shulchan Doublewiki Test[edit]

Hi Dovi,

I am trying get Doublewiki to display the Hebrew correctly on the English side (see here). I think the Hebrew header is forcing it to appear centered. I have been trying to experiment with html alignments in the first sif of Choshen Mishpat on the Hebrew side but the changes have to be approved, I assume by you. Perhaps you already know the answer to this problem so that there is no need to experiment. Is there a solution?

Thanks, Shemindex (talk) 03:17, 27 June 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Kapitel" styling, and Wrap with Hebrewtop/bottom[edit]

Shalom Dovi,

I've used the "{{Hebrewtop}}" and "{{Hebrewbottom}}" formatting such as on

It seems to give a nice face to the otiyot however the lines do not wrap, so long lines just run off the page. Any ideas for this?

Also, is there an automatic way to add "kapitel" styping to a whole text, i.e. making the first word in each paragraph large and bold as done in traditional printings.

Thank you, Nissimnanach (talk) 01:11, 15 June 2011 (UTC)NissimnanachReply[reply]

Sound file[edit]

You uploaded this sound file in 2005. I am wondering if you remember what the values are for the empty fields. cheers w:en:user:Guerillero --Guerillero (talk) 22:25, 26 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi, both the author and the source for the file are User:Nahum who is still very active at the Hebrew Wikisource, though at the time he used a different username at the Commons. Dovi (talk) 18:46, 27 August 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you --Guerillero (talk) 01:51, 1 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Jeremiah 28[edit]

I was wondering if you could point me to the page where Jeremiah 28 begins in this text (if it is in that text). Thanks :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:09, 19 September 2011 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Dear Dovi,

Can you oblige and clarify for me whether I have the right, under copyright law, to cut and paste from wikisource's Haggadah Shel Pesach (Ashkenazi menukad)? I have just translated/rendered the Haggadah into English rhymed verse, and before each stanza I wish to have the corresponding opening Hebrew phrase as a heading. I intend to have my book marketed so would not want it placed on wikisource.

Could you oblige and reply to

Kol tuv,

(Rabbi) Jeffrey M Cohen

Re: Index:Philip Birnbaum - ha Siddur ha-Shalem (The Daily Prayer Book,1949).pdf[edit]

I can't edit some of the English pages because of Hebrew characters on the page. Could you please do those pages, then I can validate them. kathleen wright5 (talk) 11:21, 19 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, I'll do that but not at the moment -- It's late at night here in Australia, so I'll do it sometime tomorrow. kathleen wright5 (talk) 12:10, 19 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I tried doing page 6 (page 31 in Index) from scratch, but I've done something wrong. There's a small [1] that when clicked cites note 1. If you're wondering how I did this it's because I have a 27" iMac computer, where two pages can be on screen. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 12:16, 20 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Could you please insert the Hebrew text and format the text on this page Page:Philip_Birnbaum_-_ha-Siddur_ha-Shalem_(The Daily_Prayer_Book,1949).pdf/51 The text is from the previous Hebrew page. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 10:26, 21 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Sorry, Contents is one thing I can't do unless it's very simple -- with colon and space. I don't know anyone who could help you. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 07:25, 22 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Billinghurst (talk) might be able to help you. He's the Chief Administrator here. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 08:31, 22 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks kathleen wright5! Dovi (talk) 09:02, 22 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Restarting WS:NEWS?[edit]

Hey Dovi!

I figured you have the most institutional knowledge on this subject, so I am asking you. At User:MJL/sandbox, I am planning a draft post for an April edition of WS:NEWS. I don't mind writing it all myself, but I am apprehensive about not at least asking someone first. I would like to know from one of the most experienced contributors here (meaning you) whether people would be upset if I just jumped right into it. I've contributed to the Signpost before, but that one is obviously more established. There's some newsworthy stuff happening, so I have no end to the things I could write.

Please let me know what you think. Regards, –MJLTalk 01:07, 24 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi MJL, and thanks for turning to me. The truth is that although I was heavily involved in English Wikisource some years ago, in more recent years I've hardly been active at all and don't really know what's going on (or what news there is). Only recently have I begun a new project here. The only website that I've been active at continually is Hebrew Wikisource. So I don't know if I am the person to turn to...
In terms of yourself, the very best thing to do in the wiki world is to "just jump right into it", and I hope that you will do so. Often, this leads to other people joining in, but somebody needs to take the first step! :-) I doubt that anyone would be upset. It would be great to have you go for it! Dovi (talk) 12:18, 24 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thank you Dovi!! It means a lot coming from you! :) Would you want to review this draft for me?MJLTalk 23:53, 24 March 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Open vs. closed section breaks in Leningrad Codex (Gen 5:3)[edit]

Hello Dovi--Thank you for this wonderful resource, which I just discovered yesterday! I am currently working on a translation of Genesis and in my work am regularly consulting the Leningrad Codex. I just noticed an error in your master spreadsheet. You indicate a parashah petuhah before 5ː3, when in fact the section break there is closed (parashah setumah). As I go back and check my translation against the Masoretic text, I will let you know if I find any other errors. Kind regards, --William Whitt (talk) 15:53, 14 April 2019 (UTC)William WhittReply[reply]

Thank you so much William! I made the correction in the Wikitext and in the spreadsheet. Note the text which actually appears in Hebrew Wikisource shows no parashah break there at all, as there wasn't one in the Aleppo Codex. Any further corrections would be much appreciated. Dovi (talk) 05:17, 15 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You might like to edit the Hebrew pages on this index when you've finished with Birnbaum in Hebrew. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 13:43, 20 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Kathleen and thanks for your note. :-) I think that once the Hebrew for the Birnbaum prayer book is done, it will become easier to supply the Hebrew text for other similar prayer books like this one too.
I feel bad that in the meantime I haven't been able to keep up with the English side of the Birnbaum prayer book, and go over the pages that you so graciously proofread. I do hope to do so in the future. It is just that there is only so much time available each day... At this point two pages in Hebrew is the most I can do on a normal day. If the English pages simply involved checking I might be able to keep up with them even now, but formatting the Hebrew in the commentary at the bottom of the pages involves more than that. I still do hope to get back to them in the future when the Hebrew is done. Or maybe in the meantime someone else will pop up who understands how to do it :-) Dovi (talk) 16:37, 28 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Questions about נוסח[edit]

Hi Dovi,

Thanks so much for all the amazing work. I've been benefiting from the מקרא על פי המסורה for a long time but only recently became aware of all the background when researching some different נוסחאות of the text.

I'd greatly appreciate if you could help me with the following 2 questions:

1. There are some codes used in the נוסח template that I don't understand. For example, מסורת-א and מסורת-ל and את. I tried looking in the spreadsheet readme, the template tab, the מידע\נספחים page and others but couldn't figure it out. Is there a list of all the codes and their meanings? (Sorry to trouble you if this has been answered somewhere and I missed it.)

2. Is there a comprehensive list of just the variations in the text? For example if I want all the words in a particular sefer or perek for which there are multiple נוסחאות, is such a list available? I imagine such a list can be created from the occurrences of the נוסח template, but wondering if this already exists. Preferably the list would be sorted by type (differences in text, טעמים, ניקוד, פיסוק etc...)

Thank you very much!

Hi Chaim, and thanks for your interest. :-)
1. Regarding the abbreviations within the נוסח tags, see here for a list. You will see there that א means the Aleppo Codex, and ת means Cambridge Add. 1753. Thus, את means a shared reading in both those manuscripts. Also, מסורת-א means the reading indicated by masoretic note(s) in the Aleppo Codex, while מסורת-ל means the same thing for notes in the Leningrad Codex.
2. I think a list like that would be a great idea, and planned to do it (although I don't know if I actually will). In the meantime, there is a model list for Isaiah, which classifies every single questionable reading in the Aleppo Codex for that book according to type, down to the smallest dot. I never did it fully for other books, but in Chapter 5 of the introduction you can find pretty full lists for Psalms, Job, and Proverbs. In chapter three you can find a good organized information about the Torah, including full lists for spelling and some other matters, but not absolutely everything.
One thing that might be easier that going to the edit pages one-by-one (for each individual chapter), is to search for נוסח tags in the spreadsheet. That is the most effective means I can think of for now. Dovi (talk) 20:57, 28 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks so much for the quick response and valuable info. I was looking at that page but didn't realize the letters could be put together as in את = א&ת. Also wasn't aware of the concept of the masoretic notes within the codices. Is there more info available regarding the function of those?
I was already using the spreadsheet, it's a great resource and I think I may be able to filter based on those נוסח tags. Thanks again!

אסתר ו ט[edit]

In אסתר פרק ו פסוק ט you have (I believe correctly) והלבישו with a י but many others including Koren and I believe most Ashkenazi Megilas have והלבשו without a י. Wouldn't a נוסח tag be appropriate?


Hi Chaim. Formally it doesn't need a tag, because any place in Nevi'im and Ketuvim where A and L and the Tiberian mesorah all match, there is no documentation. When it comes to malei and haser in these books there is lttle value to the printed versions (including Koren). However, Megillat Esther is indeed a special case, an exception to the rule because it received masoretic attention and pesak to a greater extent than the other books. So yes, I would like to document these kinds of things in Esther. I added a נוסח tag in the Wikitext and the spreadsheet, and if you find anything else like that please let me know.
You asked above about function of masoretic notes: I think for what interests you and has practical value, the best thing to read would be Breuer's book, כתר ארם צובה והנוסח המקובל של המקרא. Dovi (talk) 07:16, 29 April 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Something to look at later[edit]

You might look to look at this after everything else has been done. Wikisource:WikiProject Jewish Texts --kathleen wright5 (talk) 00:45, 25 May 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply]

שוא and חטף פתח[edit]

Hi again Dovi,

This morning when reading בראשית ה' כ"ט our בעל קורא pronounced אררה with a חטף פתח under the first ר. He was corrected by many people whose חומשים had a שוא. But some (such as Koren) do indeed have a חטף פתח.

I thought to compare this to the similar but more well-known צללו (in אז ישיר). I know there are a number of other instances of a similar question. (Incidentally, in most of these cases in my edition of the מקראות גדולות המאור, the חטף פתח appears handwritten, apparently "correcting" an earlier edition. In this case they handwrote the חטף פתח under the א (!) instead of the ר, presumably an error.)

I checked Leningrad which only has the חטף פתח on צללו but not here. Your spreadsheet likewise only brings the alternate נוסח there.

I'd appreciate any further insight you may have on the question of שוא vs. חטף פתח in general, as well as how you determine whether to include both נוסחאות in your spreadsheet. I know Koren is not very authoritative but presumably they were coming from somewhere, any idea where?

Thanks so much.


Hi Chaim, do you read Hebrew? If so, the issue is explained fully here in the introduction to my edition. Dovi (talk) 11:40, 21 October 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

This is amazing, thank you very much. Sorry for delayed response. All the best

I’ve finished off the English pages of the above work. Would you like to do the Hebrew section? Happy Hanukkah. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 02:41, 8 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks so much Kathleen! You have made an extremely useful text available to the public. The Hebrew part of that edition is both less critical and more difficult (because of the critical apparatus on the page). A basic version of the Hebrew text already appears at Hebrew Wiksource. Dovi (talk) 19:19, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]