User talk:Alex brollo

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Hello Alex brollo, welcome to Wikisource! Thanks for your interest in the project; we hope you'll enjoy the community and your work here.

You'll find an (incomplete) index of our works listed at Wikisource:Works, although for very broad categories like poetry you may wish to look at the categories like Category:Poems instead.

Please take a glance at our help pages (especially Adding texts and Wikisource's style guide). Most questions and discussions about the community are in the Scriptorium.

The Community Portal lists tasks you can help with if you wish. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page! John Vandenberg (chat) 06:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

p.s. I have created Author:John Solomon Rarey --John Vandenberg (chat) 06:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks! :-) --Alex brollo 07:04, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Works about The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses[edit]

I am currently uploading the text of Index:The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses.djvu, which will need to be formatted and proofread, if you are interested. The pages change colour to yellow, and then green, as additional people proofread the text. John Vandenberg (chat) 07:33, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Excellent! I've proofreaded copy of the English text, I used it for my Italian translation that I did with a friend and that has published and released under a CC licence:
Would you like to have a copy of fixed English text? How can I send it to you? Or is it better I directly work into your work-in-progress? --Alex brollo 08:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
If you could update the OCR text with your proofread text, that would be great. That will mean we have a good "physical" copy.
Once that is underway, we can start to create a "logical" copy, which displays the work as chapters without page breaks.
Then, your CC-BY translation can also be put onto Italian Wikisource, and then we can link the English and Italian chapters together, which will allow readers to see the original and translation side-by-side. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:35, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
OK... I slowly begin to understand... simply, my text is already a "logical copy". Since I'm far from experienced here, and the text is far from large, I could post it just as it is into Talk page of OCR text ... and some of you could use it at best. Perhaps, the whole OCR step could be overrun... but I'd not enough experienced to do this, nor I know if it's possible! Do you agree? --Alex brollo 08:46, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
To be honest, I dont have time to do it, but I will do what I can to help you learn the ropes. John Vandenberg (chat) 08:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm new here, so I have some questions for you...

1. Have I to remove what doesn't deal with the original text - see headings of individual pages with page number and chapter title? 2. What about first and last pages where there's no Rarey's text, but news and advertising by the editor?

I have a ready, proofreaded, English text of the whole booklet.... I used it as a source for my Italian translation of it. How can I use it? --Alex brollo 08:39, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

On each page there is a button "[+]", which displays a page header and footer, where you can move the parts of the page which are not "content". John Vandenberg (chat) 08:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I can't found any [+] button...(can you link a specific help page please?). Well, no matter, I'll study better. In the meantime, I began some simple validation of existing pages of Rarey's booklet. Thanks again. --Alex brollo 10:24, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Help:Djvu may be useful. This is the button that appears on the edit form: [1] John Vandenberg (chat) 10:27, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, understood! I'm at work. :-) --Alex brollo 11:36, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations on finishing the uploading process! I will put in some time sometime today to assist with the logical structure. If you want to try it yourself, see A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force, which is an excellent example to follow, using the pages on Index:A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force.djvu.

Are there any other works which would be good future projects for yourself. e.g. Would you be interested in Anatomy of the human body (1918)? John Vandenberg (chat) 23:54, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for appreciation. I took a look to your validated pages, a good opportunity to learn by example! And I'll take a look to both the texts you pointed out. --Alex brollo 04:38, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I took a look to A concise History... and I picked up a suggestion about the index pages with page links into Rarey's booklet. It roughly runs, but please edit just one of the entries if you can, then I'll "learn by example" from your edit (some subtle HTML customing is needed, besides my knowledge) and I'll go on with other entries. About Anatomy project: yes, I'm interested... but it's a HUGE work, a big challenge! :-( --Alex brollo 07:33, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I have started setting up The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses, including the two table of contents pages. I have improved p8 (however the chapter numbering is wrong), and p7 needs similar changes. I hope this hasnt confused you further; if it has, I will finish setting up The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses. Cheers, John Vandenberg (chat) 02:04, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I catched the "transclusion" idea (I explored it in my past wiki experiments!). I edited p7, and I fixed p8. Now I feel myself ready to try to work into the logical building of some chapters of The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses; I could follow the model of A Concise History of the U.S. Air Force, the index page being the title, perhaps the picture of the original cover, and a contents table. To do this, I've to re-write wholly your first index page of The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses, but I imagine that if I'm going to do some major mistake, you can revert my changes easily from history!
It's really a fascinating environment!--Alex brollo 04:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
OK. I have set up c1, which required a little extra voodoo at p21. Enjoy. John Vandenberg (chat) 04:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I saw the section trick. :-) --Alex brollo 05:14, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
I added a "Horsemanship authors" Category and a "Horsemanship" Category. I began my work about index page of The Modern Art of Taming Wild Horses, I added contents table and p1 (title) contents. Note that the title is different... I can't explain this. --Alex brollo 06:24, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
H1 and H2 and other elements have special rendering in certain contexts. If you are familiar with CSS, see MediaWiki:Common.css for the site wide CSS code. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)


Your progress is very good. I've proofread a few pages of the djvu, and changed the way that the images are placed on Equitation/Chapter 9, so that the "[page]" links only appear for each new page - i.e. transcluding the same page twice using the the "section" parameter has the undesirable effect of having two "[page]" links on the page. My changes are all just ideas; feel free to restore your previous method. It is your work, so you get to make the style choices. We are all learning best practise. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:39, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks John, very interesting, I'm going to deeply review the images code to use the new code. I wrote three simple templates: Template:Equitation style, Template:Equitation image, Template:Equitation image large, to go faster and to change general rendering of pages/of images if anyone likes.--Alex brollo 06:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I was going to suggest that you mention this at Talk:Equitation, but you already have! The intention of the {{use page image}} and {{page contains image}} tags are to allow one person to proofread the page and record the image manipulation work that still needs to be done, and for someone else who cares more about images to do the image work, perhaps at a much later stage. As you are also doing the image work, those templates are probably not so useful in this case. The {{ex libris}} tag is not only to record that image work is required, it also indicates the type of page, so if you do replace the tag with an extracted image, a category like "Ex libris pagescans" should be added to that page. John Vandenberg (chat) 13:27, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm very happy about the Image:Equitation_images.djvu idea, that runs very well; the only problem is that I can't find how to use <gallery> tag with images from djvu files (I'd like a gallery of relevant images embedded into the file; I'll build up a "pseudo-gallery" with usual image syntax)). Thanks to the djvu file, the syntax of Template:Equitation image is really simple and elegant in my opinion. I'm going to review all pages to introduce it into proofread pages. --Alex brollo 14:04, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Venetian literature[edit]

Any chance you could assist translating w:Venetian literature from the Italian article, and perhaps opining regarding meta:Requests for new languages/Wikisource Venetian. Feel free to decline if this isnt a topic you are interesting in or wish to be involved in. John Vandenberg (chat) 16:54, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

a topical index[edit]

I think you are about ready to set up a topical index for Equestrianism, probably named "Wikisource:Equestrianism" or something of the sort. See Wikisource:Chess and more at Wikisource:Works. John Vandenberg (chat) 02:03, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

OK! It will be a pleasure! Thanks once more. I'd like more the term "Wikisource:Horsemanship" just because it covers a larger range of interesting horse-related topics, IMO. --Alex brollo 06:39, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
It Looks great! John Vandenberg (chat) 10:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Testing Tex engine[edit]

I wonder about TeX engine. Here some tests.

Two identical formulae, with forced png rendering. How the TeX engine will manage them? They would be converted in two different png images, or they would be linked to a single image? And the URL of both images will be build up dynamically, or it would be static? Ok, let's save and take a look to resulting html code...

First question answered: they have been linked to a single png image. Here the html code:

<img class="tex" alt="x,y,z\,\!" 
<img class="tex" alt="x,y,z\,\!" 

I presume that the source text has been used as an index pointing to the static URL of the png file. Let's try to save now the edited page and see if the URL is really static....

Yes it is. Page has been edited and saved, and the URL is the same. So if I write now again the TeX code I should get the same url for the same formula:

And - if there is a "normalizing" routine - perhaps some unrelevant variants of the code (as blank spaces) should be ignored:

Let's save and see what happens...

Yes! The URL of png image is the same for both images... and spaces have been removed from alt text.


Now, the file name seems an exadecimal number. It could be casual or not... is it linked somehow to the text of the formula with an algorithm? Let's we try a slight editing of the formula:

The resulting URL is completely different and this means that if an algorithm exists, this is a complex one (could be, one of the algorithms that give an unique key of fixed lenght from a string).

Ok, this can be sufficient so far. Time will say if the URL is really static.

All is crystal clear...

"The MD5 hash of x,y,z\,\! is 450ef3d1ba1f5f00dadf4b6b706516e7"

This is the output generated by: MD5 Hash Generator]. Therefore: the name of png file is merely the MD5 hash of normalized TeX code.--Alex brollo 10:25, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


Hi Alex, I have been helping proofread Equitation. Horses are one of my great loves also. (I recently purchased a new filly.) I just wanted to welcome you and say Hello. - Epousesquecido 21:22, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

It's probably worth creating a sub-section of Wikisource:Sports for equestrian texts; and if/when we get enough of them, they can form their own index. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Isaac Brock 08:43, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
Equitation and horsemanship are very difficult to categorize, because the are much more than sports... the best heading would be w:Anthrozoology: "Anthrozoology is the study of human-animal interaction ("animal" referring to all non-human animals), also described as the science focusing on all aspects of the human-animal bond and a bridge between the natural and social sciences.". So, unexpectedly, equitation (as I see it) comes out to be a branch of anthropology - social sciences. --Alex brollo (talk) 09:26, 30 September 2008 (UTC)


Hi Alex, I hope you rested well, and thanks for the Spanish ¿ reminder. I was looking for the \rbrace for formulas. :-)

The {{graphic rule}} needs a small modification and I am afraid to touch it. Is it possible to make the background transparent? You can see an example at the bottom of this page: Popular Science Monthly/Volume 1/May 1872/The Causes of Dyspepsia.

I was almost sure I misunderstood your question. About ruler: I can't do it, I posted a request into our Graphic Lab into it.wikipedia. I guess, it's a very simple job... for fellows who can do it. ;-) --Alex brollo (talk) 10:57, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Done! by it:w:User:Luigi Chiesa. --Alex brollo (talk) 12:19, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

We, who are about to be embarrassed to death, salute you. :) — Ineuw (talk) 14:36, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

The (hi)story of indents[edit]

Hi Alex, I just read your post and thanks for the info on {{Indentura}}, and I am studying the implications. However, please be careful on how the word "indent" is used.

There are at least three different templates (that I know of) on en.wikisource, containing 'indent' in their name. Please note the differences.

  1. The original {{indent}} was misnamed and impossible to correct because it's used by a lot of pages in different ways. The original intent was to indent the first word of the paragraph. This is known in typography as leadin indent, or to those who grew up with typewriters, as a tab. For this I use {{gap}} which works very well.
  2. {{para indent}} or {{pi}} used for indenting a paragraph and,
  3. {{hanging indent}} or {{hi}} [hanging as in a Sergio Leone film :-)], which indents the paragraph, with the exception of the first line, which you so kindly provided.— Ineuw (talk) 16:44, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Indents continued[edit]

I see we're both on line simultaneously. The idea of a global closing template is wonderful, like {{DivClose}} or {{SpanClose}} etc. Here is an example that User:billinghurst provided for my work with The Popular Science Monthly Project {{PSMLayoutTop}}{{PSMLayoutBottom}}

I can't thank you enough for all your help and information. — Ineuw (talk) 15:11, 19 January 2010 (UTC)


Good morning Alex. I am more than happy to hear from you, communicate and have you "bounce" (licenziare?) your ideas off of me. Everyone here has different and fascinating interests. Mine can ultimately be summed up as being interested in, and fascinated by, the diversity of human endeavours, whatever they may be.— Ineuw (talk) 14:44, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


You have new messages
Hello, Alex brollo. You have new messages at Billinghurst's talk page.
Message added 17:02, 21 January 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

billinghurst sDrewth 17:02, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Something of interest[edit]

Hi Alex, I found this during my wanderings and I thought you might like it. Popular Science Monthly/Volume 6/December 1874/The Paces of the Horse. Enjoy. — Ineuw (talk) 03:21, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Pixel ruler.[edit]

Hi Alex, how are you?

You may find this ruler very neat for measuring the screen in a hurry. Pixel ruler. — Ineuw (talk) 19:03, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Bot for OCR[edit]


I was wondering if you could run that bot (pt:User:Alebot) which creates wikisources pages from the OCR again, this time for the text Index:An introduction to linear drawing.djvu? =) Helder (talk) 20:39, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Hmm... I understand. How many steps would it need? I would be happy with the good OCR, even if I need to copy the text to Wikisource manually afterwards... =D
Good night for you! :-) Helder (talk) 01:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Cool! \o/ Helder (talk) 01:12, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Thank you a lot for your help! I hope you have not spent much time doing that... Now it is up to me!
You are welcome when I find something else for you to learn =P Helder (talk) 15:01, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

JavaScript for "scannos"[edit]

I saw your question for Zocky, and my suggestion is to use the meta:User:Pathoschild/Scripts/Regex menu framework, which is available as a Gadget here.

It is very easy to use and to add new patterns... but it's good to know Regular Expressions (REGEX)...

Helder (talk) 01:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Question: how do you study the "typical scannos"?
And if it doesn't take you much time, I would like the bot to do that too...
By the way, it seems possible to simplify some of the replaces in your postOCR:
This code... Could be...
//Is this to have exactly ONE space after "e’"?
	.replace(/e’/g, 'e’ ')
        .replace(/e’  /g, 'e’ ')
//If so, this could be done with only one regex:
	.replace(/e’\s+/g, 'e’ ')
	.replace(/v’ /g, 'v’')
	.replace(/n’ /g, 'n’')
	.replace(/s’ /g, 's’')
	.replace(/t’ /g, 't’')
	.replace(/m’ /g, 'm’')
	.replace(/l’ /g, 'l’')
//Together with this
        .replace(/([dlznt])’ /g, "$1’")
	.replace(/([dlmnstvz])’ /g, '$1’')
	.replace(/ :/g, ': ')
        .replace(/ ,/g, ", ")
        .replace(/ ;/g, "; ")
        .replace(/ !/g, "! ")
        .replace(/ \?/g, "? ")
        .replace(/ \./g, ". ")
        .replace(/ :/g, ": ")
        .replace(/ ([:,;!\?\.])/g, "$1 ")

But it is better to make some tests to see if they are really equivalent (and if I didn't do any typos above :-))... Helder (talk) 17:38, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! As you can guess, I just know what Regex is... I tried to study Regex, but then I alwais go back to the dear, clear replace of python. My brain refuses to "think in Regex". This comes from my age: the first (and unique) programming course I got is... about FORTRAN, 1976-77 ;-). Ten years after, I got a PC at workplace, and I used dBase3 for years, with a BASIC like language. Old uses are difficult to change.
About your question: "typical scannos" come out simply by lots of manual edits and try-and-learn. The list of replaces into my js routine is the js translation of a python Regex-free routine. Really I wrote a powerful tool to find and fix mistakes, but it's devoted to manage another class of mistake: the infrequent ones. Its engine is a "word parser", t.i. a very simple python script to build a dictionary of all words used into a long text (as a whole book); fastly reviewing the sorted dictionary of words is a good trick to find such mistakes. But used it only once. --Alex brollo (talk) 23:04, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
I just know the basics of regex... And my first programming language was BASIC :-)
The main reason I have for trying to learn regex is because it is a powerful tool that can do a lot of things easier if we know it... Helder (talk) 17:55, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

Horses, horses, and more horses[edit]

Hi Alex, it's been a long time since we connected. In the meantime, I came across three horse related articles while in the PSM project and immediately thought of your interest. They are not proofread (as yet) because I decided to proofread articles on demand. Will gladly do so, if you tell me which articles (any or all) you are interested in. - Ineuw (talk) 02:15, 17 June 2010 (UTC)


Another horses related article[edit]

Hi Alex, I hope you're having a nice summer. Here is another article to be added to your list Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_16/December_1879/Many-Toed_Horses. It's not yet proofread but the related images are already on the commons: commons:Category:Popular_Science_Monthly_illustrations/Volume_16. Enjoy. :-) - Ineuw (talk) 02:17, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Just noticed that I already notified you in June. :-) - Ineuw (talk) 02:19, 24 August 2010 (UTC)


I deleted the redirect from your page move, I assumed that was okay. You can use the {{dated soft redirect}} or {{sdelete}} when you want them tidied up. cygnis insignis 22:06, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! Next time I'll use my bot (even if unflagged) that can move pages without leaving a redirect, OR I'll use {{sdelete}}.
Today no proofreading.... only try-and-fix of templates and data. I never used before such a high degree of "nested sections" as in {{HAR/Data}}, but logically it should run... and it does. --Alex brollo (talk) 22:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Horses and roads[edit]

Hi, I have been validating your article Horses and roads. Hope you don’t mind as I have no technical expertise but I am very good at old fashioned copy editing. I find the article fascinating and had no idea about the hooves of horses. I am wondering what the standards of shoeing horses is today in "modern" times. Have shoeing practices and the care of the horse hoof evolved? Best wishes, Another editor (talk) 22:05, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

The book is very important. About 1990, dr. Strasser, a german vet, re-riscovered Clark Bracy and its ideas. Now a large barefoot horse movement is spreading all over the world. But, most horse howners, fatteries, and vets too, simply are exactly at the point illustrated by Free Lance. They strongly believe that hooves MUST be shod, and that shoe is a "necessary evil".

I personally worked about w:Barefoot horse, I've to edit that article quoting Horses and roads as a unknown source.

Thanks for you work of validation! I've to come beck to that book, I've to refine details as internal links. But... you don't matter about exotic/exoteric code; to fix words text would be largely sufficient. Thanks!--Alex brollo (talk) 05:31, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

I never realized that horses were so interesting and complicated. You have turned me on to that. Mattisse (talk) 01:35, 23 September 2010 (UTC) (By the way, I have changed my name from Another editor to User:Mattisse.)

Horse articles in Vol 37 & 38 of PSM[edit]

Hi, and welcome back. Thanks for the additions for the vector.js. The articles I mentioned on your it. talk page were proofread already. :-)[1] Just thought you wanted to add to your collection about horses. About the shoeing of horses I have the identical interest - and concern, about their rationale. - Ineuw (talk) 20:12, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

  1. P.S: Eventually they will be in the main namespace.

{{Dotted summary row no image}}[edit]

I responded to you at Wikisource:Scriptorium#Dotted_summary_rows. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 07:52, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Happy to know that my idea turned out inspiring! Conside a point (I'll study your html but I'm sure I'll got troubles.... ): just adding other dotted classes (dotted1, dotted2...) into css, you could point to a variety of different background images (any kind of "dotting" you can imagine!) just adding a parameter to Dotted summary rows template. Unluckily, I didn't find a trick to call for a specific background-image using style parameter, since wiki code doesn't likes a direct link to image URLs nor there's access to header section of xhtml page (but... perhaps the header style section could be edited "on the fly" by js at uploading adding any needed class without changing Common.css... well, I will not try this.) --Alex brollo (talk) 08:56, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
But that would lose the other benefits of not using an image... when you zoom in, the dots would get pixellated for example. You also wouldn't be able to use relative sizes such as ems.
(And of course, until someone actually changes the CSS files for Wikisource, the image that goes with your template only shows up for people who have manually added the styles. That would be quickly remedied by an admin, of course, but for right now the pages where I'm using my code show up properly to any visitor.) --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 19:53, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, I've to study your code. It's a little discouraging at a first look, I guess I will not understand it fully, but perhaps at second, or third look... Thanks for your comments.--Alex brollo (talk) 21:03, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Ah! Well, by way of explanation, it's all done with a nested table inside the row. (Nested tables are a big no-no, aesthetically of course, but nothing else worked.) The nested table has three columns: a left one with the text in it, a middle one containing only a div with border-bottom-style=dotted, and a right column with the page number in it. All of the rest of the code, the floats and width=100% et cetera, is stuff that's necessary to make sure that everything lines up and that the dotted div expands and contracts properly. --❨Ṩtruthious ℬandersnatch❩ 21:40, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
I tested your template into my last upload, it runs perfectly (there was no need for wrapping at all!) Thanks. --Alex brollo (talk) 00:02, 27 January 2011 (UTC)


Hi, It was my pleasure to modify, as I know how, and validate the page Page:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu/42. I hope it’s OK with you. — Ineuw talk 17:38, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Ineuw! So I learnt that beautiful, simple, intelligent template Gap! :-) I'll import it as soon as possible into it.source. In the meantime: I'm in touch with Hesperian to learn something about djvu text editing... this is why my edits dropped to zero... but first results are very interesting, since we are working about two different, and perhaps complementary, ideas. Merging them should give good results! --Alex brollo (talk) 23:59, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Index:Black Beauty (1877).djvu[edit]

Hi Alex: I've seen that you are interested in horses, so I thought you might want to be aware of a text I uploaded awhile ago and am just now starting: Black Beauty. —Spangineer (háblame) 19:46, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Spangineer... but there's a big WANTED poster into it.source, and I'm already working into another small book here! ;-) What's a pity.... --Alex brollo (talk) 20:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)
No problem =). There's always so much to do! —Spangineer (háblame) 14:05, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Index:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu[edit]

Hi, what have you decided to do with Index:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu, as it seems like most if not all of the non proofed pages as "off base"? Did you decide to delete them and start over? I tried to work on them but the bot seems to have screwed the pages up. The "red" pages are not possible to be validated, it seems to me.

Regards, Mattisse (talk) 13:50, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

I asked Billinghurst for the best strategy. I uploaded a new, different and very good djvu file and I re-aligned proofread + validated pages manually. Considering that not-proofread pages are merely the djvu layer of previous, bad djvu file (pages missing - pages doubled - and so on), his suggestion has been to delete them in block and to create them again while proofreading them. I asked for a mass bot deletion, and I put a notice into Index page: Wikisource:Bot_requests#Mass_deletion_of_not-proofread_pages, the deleting script will be run tomorrow by User:GrafZahl. So I learnt "by example" that uploading OCR layer text from djvu files by bot is a very bad idea. :-( --Alex brollo (talk) 14:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Ok. I'll wait for your new version. Mattisse (talk) 14:56, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
You missed a page Page:Horse_shoes_and_horse_shoeing.djvu/429 --kathleen wright5 (talk) 12:23, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
How come you use <noinclude>de-</noinclude> instead of hws and hwe (as in {{hws|rep|representing}} etc? It seems to work ok but I've not seen it before. Mattisse (talk) 00:27, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
It's the italian style for hyphenated words, but for a long, long list of other applications too! It's one of the most powerful and most frequently used templates into it.source. I'm waiting that en.source discover its features. When used for hyphenated words at the end of the page, there's no need to use it both in the page 1 and in the page 2; one instance is sufficient. It works simply following this rule: "Show parameter 1 into nsPage and nsIndex, but show param 2 into ns0 transclusion". Very simple! But… it allows to selectively show/transclude selectively anything. I.e. see how it allows a complex, but pretty good solution of the issue: "long annotations splitted into two pages", here: Page:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu/77: the code is:
{{ShowTransclude||{{#section:Page:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu/78|note}}}}

. Can you follow its mechanism? It states: "don't show anything here, but show the transclusion of section note of page 78 into ns0" --Alex brollo (talk) 01:15, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

No, I understand only very simple css code. I don't understand much of what is done at Wikisource, and what I do use I copy. Mattisse (talk) 12:57, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Hi, can you explain to me the addition of "noinclude" on pages such as Page:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu/199 so that I may proof the pages correctly? I am trying to copy what you do. Thanks! Mattisse (talk) 18:23, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Also, this one Page:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu/300 needs a fix for dots. (I couldn't figure out how to do that!) Mattisse (talk) 18:41, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

File:Toolbar at the bottom of edit screen.jpg[edit]

Hi Alex. I installed your vector.css script for the toolbar and the result is found at the image I uploaded. Can you please check what I am doing wrong. Also, my toolbar is mostly customized in the Vector.js file. Perhaps that’s why your script is not working? Please let me know whenever you can. It’s certainly NOT urgent. Thanks.— Ineuw talk 01:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong - simply it runs effectively with side by side view, that's my default visualization when I proofread texts. If you prefer top-down visualization, probably you'll find more useful to fix toolbar into a lateral column; I never tried to do this, but I can take a look to result. I'll upload a screenshot of my working window, and I'll put a note into Scriptorium. Thanks for your remark. --Alex brollo (talk) 07:26, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Unluckily, it's possible to move the toolbar as a right-sided column, but it doesn't runs, since it "covers" scrolling bars. S, may suggestion is simply… to ignore my trick, if you are used to edit pages with a top-down view. :-( --Alex brollo (talk) 07:58, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

A few little questions[edit]

Hi, what does "nsPage: namespace" and "ns0" mean? I have been using your notes at Index talk:Horse shoes and horse shoeing.djvu as much as I can. But I barely understand anything about the coding of these pages. I am trying to learn and to implement your suggestions. Thanks! Mattisse (talk) 19:38, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Please be patient with my orrible slang. I'll fix it. nsPage: namespace: simply Page: ; ns0: simply the main namespace, where text are transcluded from Page:. --Alex brollo (talk) 19:43, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Debugger needed[edit]

Caro Alex,

sei desiderato qui... - εΔω 18:17, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Who are you searching for? Perhaps there's a mistake. I can't understand you! :-P
Forse è inutile che mi camuffi… in realtà mi hai preso troppo in parola, intanto che tu eri qua, io ero ancora là… risolto. --Alex brollo (talk) 18:33, 9 April 2011 (UTC)


Some of it is a bit boring in places. That formatting is OK with me—I'm more interested in formatting that can be seen e.g center. Page Index:339 needs an image and Page Index:479 has part of the image missing—the paring tool. If you're interested could you validate and provide images for Index:Horsemanship for Women.djvu. I've done what I can with it. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 23:43, 12 April 2011 (UTC)


Right, time to stop bugging Kathleen with my wittering. The problem with File:Horsemanship for women 021.jpg is not blurriness - it is because the "black" in the image is actually "grey". You can adjust this with the "levels" tool in GIMP or Photoshop, or, presumably, IrfanView. What you do is move the "black" level up a bit, which translates the grey in the image down, closer to true black. You can do the same for white, if you have light grey bits that should be white. You do need to be careful with this as if you over-do it, you can lose detail.

I have taken the liberty of tweaking File:Horsemanship for women 021.jpg for you, to show what can be done with just adjusting the levels.

AS for Imagemagick and jp2, you may need to compile it with special libraries, I'm not sure. This is probably not so easy on a non-Linux system, but I am guessing at that. Inductiveloadtalk/contribs 16:15, 14 April 2011 (UTC)


The two I have not validated you must do, as I proofed them! Mattisse (talk) 19:31, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

It will be a pleasure! :-) --Alex brollo (talk) 19:46, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Template:Notes on equitation style‎[edit]

Hey Alex,

while updating, I found this template. I see it is only used for one work as a margin. I put it up for deletion; personally, I did not feel the margin was necessary in the work, and some other layouts, its use has become cumbersome in viewability for the work. - Theornamentalist (talk) 14:32, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

No problem. My edits/uploads here are mainly opportunities to learn. Feel free to change/update/delete anything! --Alex brollo (talk) 16:29, 6 May 2011 (UTC)



I was poking around after reading your latest in Scriptorium and saw something about someone actually using the DjVuLibre XML and parser.

I was curious if you ran into the same issue with an incorrect default folder path for the DjVuXML-s.dtd file....

  • coded default path "pubtext/DjVuXML-s.dtd"
  • actual installed path "share/djvu/pubtext/DjVuXML-s.dtd"

... screwing up conversion to XML in your testing too. -- George Orwell III (talk) 23:51, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

All my present work is going on into a dropbox/grab folder; can I invite you inside? If you like, send me your email; I'll be happy to get some help, comments and suggestions into it.
I work under windows and using python and DjvuLibre routines (a copy of djvulibre routines is inside that dropbox/grab folder too). No, I never get that issue. I'm trying too xml, parsing it with elementTree, but presently I feelmyself much more comfortable with a DIY ad hoc python parser of .dsed files. The conversion from dsed LISP-like structure into a list-and-dict python structure is running; now I0m thinking about routines to use such a structure. Don't presume so a deep informatics skill from me; only presume lots of boldness and curiosity. :-) --Alex brollo (talk) 11:54, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
I don't know about all that. All I needed was for somebody to modify line 295 of DjVuImage.php to the correct file path and see if anything improves but i see today that file is gone/moved.
<sigh> I so hate it here. Found it. Prost. -- George Orwell III (talk) 00:19, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

DRM index[edit]

Hi Alex, I would strongly advise against the approach you're taking with this index. Think about how it will work in transclusion—particularly on a small screen. The double columns on each index page will result in the alphabetic flow jumping up and down at every page break and column break. In other words it will look this schema (where each cell is a column from a page):

A1 A2
A3 B1
B2 B3

Remember, we're making the text available and not slavishly reproducing the pages. A single column will be just fine. If you add anchors for the beginning of each alphabet letter, then at the time of transclusion you can add a {{TOC}} with links to the anchors, you'll improve the usability of the work. Cheers, Beeswaxcandle (talk) 21:40, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks but... I came from it.source, where this kind of issues have been solved (thanks to User:Candalua, it's a genius!). Columns are not transcluded (the trick being into template:DRM-column and template:DRM-nextColumn, two Candalua's templates), a single column appears into ns0: De re metallica (1912)/Index I. I'm just here to learn how much our tricks run into a different environment. A hard, but very interesting experience!
OK, but as the Page namespace is intended to be a servant to the mainspace and actually seen by readers (as opposed to proofreaders), why bother with reproducing the columns at all? I find that the more templates there are on a page, the harder it is to validate. I also find it very difficult to work out which template wasn't terminated properly when there's something wrong. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:04, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Good question; nevertheless I respectful disagree. I imagine that in future nsPage will increase in consideration, since it is a real digitalization of the book structure - pagination being an important element of [TEI. In the meantime, my opinion is: any effort to have a good and detailed rendering into nsPage is not a bad idea; but I know that it's a personal point of view.
I have to chime in here... the Page namespace's purpose is first and foremost to forever separate the various types of layers found in the common complex docs [File:.DjVu, File:.pdf, etc.] for side-by-side comparison in the proofreading transcription process.

Any future semantic markup of the content transcribed will most likely remain true to the specs and little else. Either way, its up to you. -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:48, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

In the meantime: do you like {{Pag}}? --Alex brollo (talk) 23:06, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
What does {{Pag}} do that the pre-existing {{TOC link}} doesn't do already? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:04, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
It converts the number of the page into a "double-faced" link: from nsPage to nsPage and - when transluded - from ns0 into ns0 (with an anchor to jump to the transluded page; just implemented with some pain, thanks to George efforts)). If you like, I discussed it into Scriptorium (and I got the help of George Orwell III (see his recent talk page) to install this Lua-based template here. It reads data from a "data page" (by now, Module:Data/De re metallica (1912).djvu where it finds relationships (for any djvu page) between djvu page number and book page number (as stated by pagelist tag) and between djvu page and ns0 pages (as stated by transclusion tags, summaryzed into Table of contents into index page). If you are "database-minded", I think you could be interested about its engine; from the user point of view, it's mostly simple, since there's no need to do other than applying the template to page numbers, as they are into the text. --Alex brollo (talk) 06:37, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
Look, unless you find a way to store that data directly under the File: Index: or Page:/0 associated with a specific source file, Not Many folks here, if any, will ever give PAG or CONTENT and similar a try nevermind actually move to adopt it as a formal practice or policy - no matter how nifty you think double-sided links are (the regular contributor just subtracts or adds the offset as needed without all that Lua jazz getting involved).

Right now, the source file specific Module data partially mirrors the application/function of the <pagelist> tag's function by applying an offset (or delta) to convert file positions to page numbering. Find a way to replace the <pagelist> with your method without it "looking" any different in its rendering, make it just a simple to use and I bet most everyone would gladly adopt your approach. But until then (& based on prior history) you're going to have a hard time getting anything across around here. -- Alex brollo (talk) 11:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

(wrong signature, since self-expanding tag didn't expand in the right time from a pagelist open tag; I presume, this was a contribution of Beeswaxcandle) Not me, check the page history before deciding these things. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
I know that "experiments" can hurt communities, and I asked community first: Wikisource:Scriptorium#Question.2Fproposal_1. I got an encouragement. Nevertheless, it.source Lua script id a proposal only; just to give a running example. I can't learn into a brief time en.source philosophy and uses; feel free to discuss my proposal with George Orwell III and anyone, then - if needed - tl|Pag can be very easily removed by a regex shot, since they are "naked" and have no parameter. But.... by now please, let me test a little more: it is my forst experience of "internationalization" of our it.source tools. --Alex brollo (talk) 11:02, 20 July 2013 (UTC)
There is nothing stopping you working on a proof of concept. However, before it can be adopted more widely it will need to be completely generic and not work-specific. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:46, 21 July 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. Presently, on the basis of experience gained here, I'm trying to export the tl|Pag mechanism (and what is needed to run it effectively) into la.source; since generalization needs not only to proof that the project can run into any work, but that it can run decently into any project. Column layout is a minor issue and IMHO it can be disregarded (I killed it). As soon as I tested tl|Pag into la.source, workin on la:Liber:Agricola De re metallica.djvu, I'll come back here to import new experience and to document the whole thing a little better. --Alex brollo (talk) 04:23, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for doing work on De re Metallica[edit]

Herbert Hoover did a lot of interesting work on standardization and I am interested in that topic. I cleaned a little in that book he translated and that you are working on, De re Metallica. Thanks for doing this. Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:41, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Import from to[edit]

Hi , I am from Bengali wikisource ( We need to import all PD Unicoded text to wikiformat from Could you please help us to create bot. Jayantanth (talk) 05:51, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Sadly to say, you are largely overestimating my skill... I can't browse the source website and study the html code that would be wikified and imported. How deep automation do you want into import process? Can you link some texts to be imported into the source website? --Alex brollo (talk) 08:06, 22 October 2013 (UTC)


Hey, inspired by your ideas, I've made a simple little fullscreeny thing: User:Samwilson/FullScreenEditing.js. Would love your opinion. :-) Sam Wilson 08:25, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

@Samwilson: Excellent! At my first test, it is too compatible with two of my "fuzzy tools", LivePreview and "BAT" (Big Anonymous Tool ;-) ), while eis.js doesn't run here any more, I've to rwview it.
Just a suggestion: I'd like to have a little bit of left span for edit box, it's unusual to have a text that touches the screen left border while editing.
Can I test it into it.source too? --Alex brollo (talk) 12:01, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Cool! I'm glad it works okay with some other tools. That's my idea: that FullScreenEditing.js should just handle the fullscreening but and not worry about any other functionality.
Good idea about the left-margin; I've fixed it up. Do the top tab links work okay for you? I've just noticed that sometimes they're a bit odd.
Yep, should be fine to test in; I'll be interested how things are different! Sam Wilson 23:44, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
FullScreenEdit and other tools.jpg
@Samwilson: Just to "whep your appetite" here's a screenshot of FullScreenEditing coupled with my beloved tools: top left, "diacritics", to add/change diacritics to any character by a click (based on .normalize("NFC") and .normalize("NFD"); top right, "Find & replace", a regex tool that can save and share work-specific sets of regex substitutions; bottom, "personal buttons", a highly and easily customable set of edit tools. --Alex brollo (talk) 07:26, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
PS: diacritic box is draggable, presently regex box isn't; bottom buttons are fixed. --Alex brollo (talk) 08:24, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
By now, eis too runs into FullScreenEditing, I'll refresh the screenshot. --Alex brollo (talk) 09:29, 3 November 2016 (UTC)