User talk:Moondyne/Archive 1

From Wikisource
Jump to: navigation, search


Re: History of West Australia[edit]

Thank you for your contributions. If you like to use scanning and OCR, you may consider the namespace "Page" (see Help:Side by side image view for proofreading). And as for the table of contents, I think that it may be better to placed at the main page History of West Australia, not just a subpage History of West Australia/Contents. Thanks for your consideration. --Neo-Jay 07:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. Happy New Year!--Neo-Jay 08:02, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

If you scan and upload the images onto commons, we have a bot that can automatically OCR the pages (depending on the page layout, typeface, etc, etc). John Vandenberg 08:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Cool. I need a larger flatbed scanner than the one I have here, so it'll take a few days. I wonder if the bot is able to manage two columns? Moondyne 08:45, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
I've asked the bot operator whether it can handle two columns: User talk:ThomasV#OCR bot; two columns. John Vandenberg 09:03, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. You guys are outstanding. Moondyne 09:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
hello, I transcluded 3 pages and I created the index page (Index:History of West Australia) for your project.ThomasV 16:08, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Thomas but I've rem'd pages9-11 transclusions as they haven't been proofread yet and the OCR quality is so awful they are virtually unintelligible (esp as the two column thig isn't working). I'm going to have to rescan these and try another tack.
My little desktop scanner at home seems to manage the OCR better, except it struggles with the page size. But I will overcome! Moondyne 07:36, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

hello Moondyne.

You should not create two pages when there is a chapter end (Page:History of West Australia p11a.jpg and Page:History of West Australia p11.jpg). it is better to use the labeled section transclusion (lst) ThomasV 16:35, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I finished the draft, the author finally gets around to mentioning the subject. Thanks for your quick response to my request, let me know me know if more becomes available. OCR would be nice, and, I'm guessing, fairly accurate from the more sophisticated online services. I didn't try to get the image either. I imagine that the publisher had to order more commas for this work, he would have used up every one in the state :p
You will need to decide how to structure the document, with regard to sections and page name and so on. I not completely up to date with the emerging solutions to these problems, if you are the same, have a long think about, look at what others have done, read the guidelines, and test some models of two columns wrapping the image, and so on.
Or just ask H. Cygnis insignis (talk) 14:35, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Copyright tags[edit]

I'll ask here as I'm unsure the correct discussion forum.

Category:License templates doesn't have a tag specifically for Australia, but the work is certainly PD, per w:Template:PD-AUS. Shouldn't there be a similar Template:PD-Australia here? Or shall I just use Template:PD-old-50?

Thanks. Moondyne 09:16, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Believe it or not, the Wikisource equivalent of the Village Pump, known as the Wikisource:Scriptorium, actually functions as a useful discussion board! Hesperian 10:35, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

I see that you initially created the enWP and Commons template for Australia; please do create our PD-Australia template as well. Our templates are applied to both Author: pages and works, and the wording needs to be slightly different in each case. Also the license needs to indicate that it is PD in Australia, without necessarily saying it is PD in the United States, as we have other templates like {{PD-1996}} to cover that.
Note that we have started using the naming convention PD-<ISO COUNTRY CODE>Gov for works of various governments that are in the public domain. e.g. {{PD-UKGov}}, {{PD-INGov}} and {{PD-CAGov}}. This is so that our templates are shorter and more specific. As a result, a {{PD-AUGov}} is also required.
in addition to the Scriptorium, most of us watch RC. John Vandenberg 11:40, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
A copyright query you might be interested in. John Vandenberg 04:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)


Standards are less, um, standardised, here, so you have heaps of latitude in how you do things. So take this merely as a suggestion: personally, I never link to Wikipedia from within documents. The only things I link to is other documents, and authors; e.g.:

"In Mr. Fraser's collection, the principal genera of this order are Petrophila, Isopogon, Hakea, and Banksia; and these are also the most abundant in the districts of King George's Sound and of Lucky Bay. The number of pieces of the two first-mentioned genera confirms the remark made in the Botanical Appendix to Captain Flinder's Voyage—namely, that in New Holland, at the western extremity of the parallel of latitude in which the great mass of this order of plants is found, a closer resemblance is observable to the South African portion of the order than on the east coast, where those allied to the American part chiefly occur."

I try to link the first occurrence of every author or document, even if it is a red link. This elegantly fits my own notion of this project being a web of documents, just as Wikipedia is a web of articles. But of course one can argue that a blue link to Wikipedia is more useful than a red internal link. I shall leave it up to you, and shall say no more on the subject. Hesperian 11:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

P.S. Can I get a sneak preview of "The Abrolhos" section of Chapter One? Hesperian 11:25, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a googolplex. Hesperian 12:43, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


Flag of Australia.svg I'm not sure if you're interested in helping out - but FloNight and I have been trying to keep {{New texts}} updated for upcoming holidays. January 26th is both India and Australia Day - since Australia Day predates India Day (and frankly, will attract more interest, since we have more Australian users than Indian...), I thought it would be a wise choice and have started The Voyage of Governor Phillip to Botany Bay which details the voyage which Australia Day commemorates. If you can find any other eTexts related to historical Australia, or better yet - Australia Day (also called Republic Day), please feel free to add them and make a note on our talk pages - once we have eight new texts, we'll update the template on the front page! :) (Since I believe you are also Australian yourself, please consider adding Wikisource:Australia to your watched pages, and help us improve that index! Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Wikisource:Sheet music 21:51, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Ramping up?[edit]

It took you over two years to get to 31 edits here, and now we've had four times that in three weeks. What gives, man? Ramping up to become a serious contributor, or just flirting? Hesperian 11:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC)


Cheers mate. Hesperian 12:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Australian poetry[edit]

Hey, as I believe you are an Australian, I thought I would direct you to Wikisource:Australian poetry both to help fill out the collection, maintain and clean up the index, and for your own possible interest. Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Honoré de Balzac 01:01, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Fremantle Journal[edit]

I've finished the other three pages. Feel like in validating them for me? Hesperian 03:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

No. For your information, I spent about an hour the other day transcribing page 1 and when I hit save got an edit conflict with you. That was how I knew it was OK and was able to tag it as proofread so quickly. I didn't say anything at the time as it would only have been words starting with the letter "f". If it makes you feel any better, you did a much better job than me as I had a lot of unrecognised words, and your formatting was also nicer. I am still trying to get over this shocking waste of my time and hence cannot say when I'll manage to face up to the risk of it happening again. moondyne (talk) 04:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Well shit, that sucks. I do most humbly apologise. Hesperian 04:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Not to mock your pain, but you were asking for it. Consider:
  1. Hesperian writes Wikipedia article on newspaper;
  2. Hesperian obtains images of newspaper;
  3. Hesperian crops and balances images of newspaper;
  4. Hesperian uploads images of newspaper to Commons;
  5. Hesperian add image of newspaper to Wikipedia article;
  6. Hesperian creates Wikisource index for newspaper;
What were you thinking I would do next? :-)
Hesperian 05:11, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Yeah I know, rub it in. I thought you may have wanted a break and I was just trying to be helpful. moondyne (talk) 05:20, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
The help would have been very welcome; if I had known, I certainly should have stayed out of your way. Hesperian 05:30, 17 October 2008 (UTC)


I created Index:The climate of Western Australia, from meteorological observations made during the years 1876-1899.djvu for you. The others are left as an exercise for the readerwriter.

Page:The climate of Western Australia, from meteorological observations made during the years 1876-1899.djvu/7 is a bit of a problem... and Mr Battye doesn't own a copy; the only libraries in Australia that can help you are the National Meteorological Library, the State Library of Victoria, and the National Library of Australia.

Hesperian 02:01, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks muchly. When you say p.7 is a problem are you referring to the image quality and the OCR result? The PDF (and presumably the jp2 files) seems to be fine.  ;) Moondyne (talk) 02:58, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
The errata is on a sleeve that obscures the contents page behind it. Hesperian 03:04, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
The contents page without the Errata sleeve is at /9. Moondyne (talk) 04:11, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Well f**k me; I didn't notice that. I think I may have to pull those duplicates out, crop the errata, and put it at the end of the book.... Hesperian 04:36, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Page 7 is just the errata now. Hesperian 06:01, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Thankyou for all that. It seems you just scraped in under the 20mb limit also. Moondyne (talk) 10:13, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
You can tell the djvu encoder what the output file size should be. I usually aim for whatever is smaller: 1% of the uncompressed images, or 20Mb. In this case it was the latter. Hesperian 11:51, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
The djvu is still quite fuzzy, compared to the png I cut out of a pdf. Compare:
Moondyne (talk) 13:31, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, I looked at the above images at 750px, and there are dreadful compression artefacts in the djvu. That's the price you pay for 99.6% compression. Your 1.1Mb png shits all over it, but 1.1 x 186 pages > 200Mb!
When I said that you can tell the djvu encoder what the output file size should be, I rather oversimplified the situation. Firstly, you convert each page to a single page djvu, at which time you can tell the encoder how big the output file should be. Then, you collate all the single page djvu files into a multi page djvu. The obvious way to figure out how big the single page djvu files should be is to divide 20Mb by 186 pages. The result is a little over 100kb. So I told the encoder to encode each individual page into a 100kb file. But the information content varies from page to page, so by locking in 100kb for all pages, I end up with very high fidelity blank pages, and lower-than-average fidelity graphics. Whereas we want the opposite. If I could be bothered (and I suspect that I can), I would go back and play around with various decibel quality target values until I hit on a value that yields the best quality in a sub-20Mb file. But in the end, no matter what I do, your lossless PNG image will still shit all over it. Its entropy maaate!
Hesperian 14:21, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
I regenerated all pages at 33 decibels, which is the highest fidelity I could get and still fit under 20Mb. Featureless pages shrunk e.g. page 8 went from 100Kb to 2Kb. Complex pages grew e.g. page 40 went from 100Kb to 283Kb. Your beloved page 15 is very average when it comes to information content, and it went from 100Kb to 104Kb, which means you're not going to see any improvement. Sorry, I did my best, and I failed; the only remaining option is at Overall, though, this upload is indisputably better than the previous, so I'm glad I went to the trouble. Learned something too. Hesperian 02:07, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
As long as you got some value out of it I'm happy. I certainly didn't expect you to go to so much trouble over what to me was a triviality. Moondyne (talk) 02:10, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
It's all part of the fun. I'm currently working up a DjVu of Diary of ten years, because the one is watermarked. I dread to imagine the crap quality I'll get out trying to jam 582 pages into 20Mb :-( Hesperian 02:30, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Keep me posted and sing out if there's any proofing needed or mundane copy-pasting you want to delegate. Moondyne (talk) 02:43, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Diary of ten years[edit]

Page 97: discovery of the fertile Avon Valley: '"Worcestershire," cried one; "Shropshire," cried another; "Kilkenny for ever," roared out Sheridan.'

The DjVu is now at Image:Diary of ten years.djvu. In the course of trying to get this under 20Mb, and dismally failing to achieve a file as readable as the one, I discovered that the DjVu of Climate is far more readable than mine is. I wonder if you were trying to politely tell me this in the thread above?

After spending a goodly amount of time investigating the cause of my incompetence, I discovered that DjVu supports a few different encodings. The one with which it is usually identified is the DjVuDocument encoding, which is absolutely spiffing at compressing images of text inked onto a page. In my ignorance, I had assumed that was what I was encoding to, but in fact the encoder I was using encodes to DjVuPhoto, a much simpler, more general, less tailored, compression scheme, which treats pages as photographs, much the same way jpeg does. It turns out that there is no DjVuDocument encoder that is both spiffing and free; all the decent ones are proprietary. The only DjVuDocument encoder I have is a simple one intended for "images containing few colors. It performs best on images containing large solid color areas such as screen dumps. "

But I ain't licked yet. One option, which I took with Diary of ten years, is to segment out the text, put it on a white background, and encode to DjVuBitonal. That allowed me to fit 580 pages into 16Mb, while retaining sharp text, which rates as a "spiffing" outcome in my book. I'd be interested to hear your opinion of it: do you think the loss of the brown background is a positive or a negative? Another option is to quantize down to a two (or a few) colours and try out my crappy DjVuDocument encoder.

Hesperian 13:05, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't specifically, but did wonder how/why sometimes the raw OCR text is embedded in the djvu file, and sometime it is not (I suspect that that's what you're talking about above, but 99% of this is over my head), and how do you (or can you) access that text from the Wiki interface. (OTOH, maybe a little knowledge is dangerous and I should continue to plod along in blissful ignorance) Which free reader do you recommend? To me, the background is of no value, except say the cover page like Diary of ten years.djvu. As you say, the benefit of clumping the whole 580 pages into less that 20mb is great. Moondyne (talk) 16:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
PS. I have another related question which I'll address via email. Moondyne (talk) 16:41, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
No, embedded OCR is entirely another matter. I reckon it is still possible to embed OCR, even in a DjVuPhoto encoding, but I'm not really interested in going there. I don't think it can be accessed from the MediaWiki interface, but there is a button you can use to request OCR for a page. Those requests are handled by ThomasV's OCR bot, which I believe checks for embedded OCR before it attempts an OCR itself.
The only reader I've used is djview, which comes with djvulibre, which is what I've been using to encode.
Yes, as you can see I fiddled with the pages, but kept the covers as is. If you're happy with that I will try something similar with Climate. Hesperian 05:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Hesperian 13:57, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
No worries. Just reading your 'Primary sources'. Fascinating. Moondyne (talk) 14:01, 4 January 2009 (UTC)


I did the same thing with the new artikel at w: - which I only noticed when it redlinked at that famous fella Y— I don't see a problem, unless google doesn't scrape our redirects, which may be the case, because it wasn't appearing in the ghit list, at least the last time I checked, which was this arvo ...[pant!] Thanks for noting it, 'autopatroller Moondyne' ;-) — Cygnis insignis (talk) 11:39, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

G'day mate. I moved it back. Though title case is used in most real world contexts, and on Wikipedia, repositories of documents (i.e. libraries) invariably (that may be a slight exaggeration) use sentence case. There is not yet consensus on this point here on Wikisource, so I do what is best in my own eyes, which is use sentence case. Hesperian 11:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)
I'll take your word for it. We now have a redirect so initial problem is solved anyway. Good work. Moondyne (talk) 12:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)


It isn't obvious from the labels, but the usual modus operandi here is to use "not proofread" for OCR text that hasn't been fully read over and corrected, "proofread" for text that has been corrected from OCR, and "validated" for text that has been proofed by another party. So once you're satisfied with the pages you're posting, you should be promoting them to "proofread".

As an added bonus, I am in the longstanding habit of stalking Cygnis, by tracking the pages that he has proofed which are awaiting validation, and following along behind him validating them. I would be happy to extend the same service to your good self, but it ain't gonna work if you leave a trail of "not proofread" pages behind you instead of a trail of "proofread" pages.

Hesperian 04:07, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Ah, understood. Will do. After doing a handful more, I was planning on revisiting them all from the start and so will promote to proofread then. And yes, offer gratefully accepted. Moondyne (talk) 04:16, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Another thing, is it bad practise to transclude not proofread pages into the chapter pages (ie before they're proofread), or doesn't anyone care? Moondyne (talk) 04:20, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I prefer not to, personally; but I doubt if there is community consensus on that point. Do what thou wilt. Hesperian 04:22, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


Page:History of West Australia.djvu/37 clearly has paragraphs (2 c/r's), but when transcluded into History of West Australia/Chapter 3 they disappear. What have I done wrong? Moondyne (talk) 00:53, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

I've seen this quite a few times before; it can be a bugger to track down. Leave it with me for a little while. Hesperian 00:56, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Surprisingly, this didn't fix it. But this did; I'm not sure why. Hesperian 01:05, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Blockquote was probably inappropriate there anyway. Thanks. Moondyne (talk) 01:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

When the mood takes you, can you validate /1, /9, and /10 please? These are the three that I yellowed, so someone else has to green them. I'll probably start validating yours today. Hesperian 01:38, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Done. Moondyne (talk) 01:47, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Ta. Hesperian 02:10, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

you'll be sorry[edit]

I gave up preserving indentation using {{text-indent}} because you can't make that template work across page boundaries. Because paragraph indentation is a block level operation, closing the template implies the end of a paragraph. That means you'll get unwanted paragraph breaks when you transclude. Have a look at what you've done to History of West Australia/Chapter 1.

If you really want to preserve indentation, you can do it raw by wrapping paragrpahs in a <div style="text-indent:2em">and </div>. For paragraphs that cross page boundaries, you put the </div> at the end of the first page into the noinclude footer (click on the [+] button); and a <div style="text-indent:0em"> or just <div> into the noinclude header of the second page. Then, when you transclude, the bits that close the paragraph on one page and reopen it on the next are omitted, and the paragraph flows nicely.

Is it worth it?

Hesperian 04:17, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Which is why I stopped after doing /13. Point taken. I was trying to find a fix but you beat me to it. I'll let it go. Moondyne (talk) 04:23, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Been there; done that; have the scars to prove it. Hesperian 04:45, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
It does look better though doesn't it. Moondyne (talk) 05:20, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Indeed; but is it worth it?. You do the work, and I'll validate it. ;-) Hesperian 05:31, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
Meh. Moondyne (talk) 05:34, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I try so hard not to get ahead of myself, but most of the time I just can't resist: Index:The Visit of Charles Fraser to the Swan River in 1827.djvu. Hesperian 01:40, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Cool. The photo on /32 must be the convict hulk-yes? A bit of poetic license perhaps. Moondyne (talk) 01:53, 30 October 2009 (UTC) [1] Moondyne (talk) 01:56, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
Ha ha! Hesperian 02:00, 30 October 2009 (UTC)


When I look at a diff on a Page:, is there a way to temporarily hide the image? Moondyne (talk) 08:58, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Under "Misc" in your preferences.
Prefs|Misc has 2 options: Do not show page content below diffs and Omit diff after performing a rollback. Neither of these seems related to what I'm asking and changing them anyway doesn't help. Moondyne (talk) 08:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Ah, right, that's why I switched them off :P I want the same thing ... maybe suppress images in your browser settings. Cygnis insignis (talk) 08:21, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
The diffs display here is horrible with the image shown. Ah well. Moondyne (talk) 08:45, 2 November 2009 (UTC)


Looks great. Moondyne (talk) 08:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Which do you prefer? Cygnis insignis (talk) 08:22, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
You're asking me? The djvu is fine, IMO. Except that you'd lose that UCAL watermark, meh. I certainly don't want you to do something I wouldn't be stuffed doing. Moondyne (talk) 08:39, 2 November 2009 (UTC) Second thoughts, the png does look better. Moondyne (talk) 08:58, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, the question is: do you prefer the crop or the whole page? Great effort so far, btw
Crop. Moondyne (talk) 09:14, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Songsofsentimentalbloke (detail).pngHE initials could be worked in, like at Celtic Fairy Tales, If you want them. Cygnis insignis (talk) 09:06, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I was wondering about that! Moondyne (talk) 09:14, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I am muddling my way through the formatting. Fell free to improve anywhere so I can learn! Moondyne (talk) 09:25, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't recommend that! I make it up as I go along, for an example of this and a demonstration of what others have done: A Spring Song. Cygnis insignis (talk) 12:00, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
Nice. Moondyne (talk) 12:19, 2 November 2009 (UTC) I'd have thought it'd be at The Songs of a Sentimental Bloke/A Spring Song. Books with chapters seems to be placed as a subpage. {confused} Moondyne (talk) 12:23, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I knocked this up ... The Songs of a Sentimental Bloke Cygnis insignis (talk) 16:02, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
I put the main illos in, there is the odd bit of border :/ I don't mind changing them, or giving the crop outside the border. Let me know if you want the initials Cygnis insignis (talk) 02:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
I think the crop should be outside the border, a la File:Songs of a sentimental bloke, page 16 (crop).png. What intials? Moondyne (talk) 03:34, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Text replacement and regex[edit]

There is a mini-tutorial there, and a link to a slightly broader tutorial. Important thing is for funny characters you need precede with a backslash, eg. for forward slash \/ ; for parantheses \( and \) ; pipe \| . Another quick and dirty useful is \n is equivalent to 'hard return'. Though a little weird, one only needs to do regex in the top section, and standard replacement text. If a replacement goes to pot, Ctrl-Z (undo) works a treat. I KNOW! smiley -- billinghurst (talk) 14:36, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. Will check it out. Moondyne (talk) 09:05, 3 November 2009 (UTC)


FYI: Search and read about "Gilbert" here and here. Hesperian 05:41, 5 November 2009 (UTC)

I picked up on that the other day. Odd. Moondyne (talk) 06:04, 5 November 2009 (UTC)


You should be able to request a deletion like that using {{sdelete}}. Used like {{sdelete|Duplicate content see [link]}} and we will get it in passing. -- billinghurst (talk) 16:43, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

I quickly loooked for something like that and couldn't see it. Thnaks. Moondyne (talk) 23:36, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
As far as I know, I am the only CAT:SDD troll in this place—I check it twice a day on average, which makes it rather pointless and unrewarding for anyone else to bother with it. So sdelete probably won't be any quicker or more effective than dropping me a message. But by all means use it. Hesperian 05:04, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I thought it was polite to notify the creator in this case, despite there being no conceivable reason to object to deletion. Cygnis insignis (talk) 12:57, 7 November 2009 (UTC)


I'm not sure how or when, but I seem to have wiped the Diary off my watchlist. Probably had a cleanout at some point. Anyhow, I only just now noticed that you've been validating it. Ta. Hesperian 13:48, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

A bit here and there. The vocab is mind numbing stuff heh?. Whenever I start to feel dizzy I just remind myself that some poor bastard actually proofread all this ;) Moondyne (talk) 13:53, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
The same poor bastard who just linked all the page numbers at Makers of British botany/Index. Some of us are suckers for punishment. Apropos of nothing, I just discovered Index:Journals of Several Expeditions Made in Western Australia.djvu; or rather, re-discovered, since the page histories show edits I have no memory of making. Thought you might be interested. Hesperian 14:38, 15 November 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, interesting. Can Index: pages be categorised alongside books? Moondyne (talk) 02:18, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
That can, yes; just stick a category in the page list field. Whether they should is a question I'm not really across. My gut feeling is that Index: pages are internal i.e. meta- pages, intended for the editor rather than the reader. Hesperian 02:40, 16 November 2009 (UTC)


Sorry, I only just noticed you comment about pages 69 & 99. Can you email me your scan of 69 (in any format, but preferable lossless) and I'll fix the page? And I'll flip 99 while I'm at it. Hesperian 00:48, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

File:History of West Australia p69.png. Moondyne (talk) 01:40, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Ta; I've uploaded a repaired version. Do you want me to delete that png (and the 99)? Hesperian 04:51, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
Good idea, tks. Moondyne (talk) 06:07, 3 December 2009 (UTC)


[2] Now at last you understand the pledge. Hesperian 13:52, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Ha. 'nuff said. Moondyne (talk) 14:06, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

new text[edit]

I'm letting you something was added to the front page, you can just delete this note from this nice neat talk :-) Cygnis insignis (talk) 08:40, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Thanks and no - I enjoy friends dropping in for a chat. Moondyne (talk) 08:49, 21 December 2009 (UTC)


I saw that you used this template—what's the point of it? --Spangineerwp (háblame) 18:43, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

If I may interject: It does nothing—literally a w:NOP—but sometimes its mere presence helps to guide the renderer; e.g. ''{{nop}}' makes the renderer treat those three consecutive apostrophes as an italics tag followed by an apostrophe; rather than a boldface tag. One of the most common uses is where a Page: page begins or ends with carriage returns that need to be preserved. Transclusion eliminates leading and trailing whitespace, but if you put a {{nop}} at the beginning/end of the page then the whitespace is no longer leading/trailing and won't be stripped at transclusion; this makes {{nop}} a very lightweight replacement for {{blank line}}. Hesperian 22:37, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. For eg., I placed a nop at the end on Page:The Passenger Pigeon - Mershon.djvu/252. When /252 and /253 are transcluded, the line break at the end of /252 is preserved. Else it isn't. Moondyne (talk) 23:39, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
Gotcha. I've been using {{blankline}} for that purpose, but your way looks easier and just as good. --Spangineerwp (háblame) 00:51, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

So you rule?[edit]

I am going to tell Hesperian that you think that you can {{rule}} on his works. :-P billinghurst sDrewth 07:45, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

To do a footnote[edit]

Easiest way is to stick a footnote as <ref> in the body of the work, then to put <references /> or {{smallrefs}} after the transclusion and before the div tag. billinghurst sDrewth 07:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

I was trying to find a way to do the ref/note link with an "(a)" rather than a "[1]". Any ideas? If not the standard per above is fine. Moondyne (talk) 08:28, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Well, I have just got it a little closer <ref group="(a)"> though it will still add the number.<shrug> billinghurst sDrewth 09:51, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Reverted back to vanilla <ref>. Moondyne (talk) 12:14, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


[3][4] Glad you approve. It's a game-changer all right. Hesperian 03:17, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

You b@#$%^&s were going to keep it a secret weren't you? Moondyne (talk) 03:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
Just until I catch up. :-) Hesperian 04:20, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
I wont allow that. Moondyne (talk) 13:42, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
I edited your monobook, revert if its not an improvement (of course). Cygnis insignis (talk) 05:56, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. Moondyne (talk) 06:09, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
Hmm theres enough on mainspace en to keep me going 24/8, but hell I have just been photographing 100 year old books that I am going to either throw away or sell for a might as well join - here, commons, en are enough to keep me under the weather in every sense for a while i suppose :( SatuSuro (talk) 07:55, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


That threw me, "J B Wilson" at this page, surely this is Wilson, Thomas Braidwood (1792 - 1843) Cygnis insignis (talk) 08:11, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Dunno. ADB says he was accompanied by Collet Barker. The Journal only mentions Kent, a soldier, 2 prisoners and Mokare. Perhaps there was another expedition that this is being confused with. Moondyne (talk) 08:24, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Although your idea is more likely. Moondyne (talk) 08:28, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Remember that this is the same work that calls Robert Dale "Mr Richard Dale". Hesperian 11:30, 15 February 2010 (UTC)


(?= is a lookahead. You can only use it after the pattern you want to match. I had trouble with this the other day.

If your problem is anything like mine—the bit you want to replace not equalling the bit you want to match—the solution is backreferences. You write your regular expression to find the entire string you want to match, and then put () around the bits you want to "capture" for use in the replace term. Use $1, $2, etc in your replace term to use the bits you captured.

So if you want to change o to 0 whenever it is surrounded by numbers, you

  1. Match number-o-number: /[0-9]o[0-9]/g
  2. Capture the matched numbers so you can use them in the replace term: /([0-9])o([0-9])/g
  3. Replace what you matched with first_capture-0-second_capture: .replace/([0-9])o([0-9])/g, '$10$2');

I haven't tested the above, but it is right enough to give you an idea. As another example, I've compacted all that line break handling to a single line:

editbox.value = editbox.value.replace(/([^\n])\n([^\n])/g, '$1 $2');

which reads as "replace 'not-a-line-break, line-break, not-a-line-break' with 'whatever-the-first-not-a-line-break-was, space, whatever-the-second-not-a-line-break-was'.

Rock on.

Hesperian 02:22, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Was trying to do a lookbehind with (?=<whatever). Will now try to digest what you said above. Moondyne (talk) 02:25, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

I like this edit. :-) Hesperian 13:29, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I took a cue from Cyg. If I'm doing something wrong, let me know. Moondyne (talk) 14:07, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
You've identified your first mistake already :P Cygnis insignis (talk) 14:41, 17 February 2010 (UTC)


I've left Page:The moods of Ginger Mick.djvu/8 and pages like it alone, and am happy to continue doing so; but if I may be permitted to put my two cents in the coin slot, I reckon the text is a caption rather than an intrinsic part of the plate, and therefore ideally it should be cropped out of File:The moods of Ginger Mick (djvu4).png, inserted on the page as text, and the page marked as Proofread instead of Without text. Hesperian 05:19, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Aye, agreed. Will get to that in a wee while. Moondyne (talk) 00:49, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Is this the best way forward? Moondyne (talk) 07:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
Looks spot on to me. Hesperian 14:44, 22 February 2010 (UTC)


I don't think so, for two reasons. Firstly, I think it was published in England, not Australia. And secondly, even if it qualifies as an Australian work, it was still under copyright in its home country in 1996, the URAA cut-off date, so you have to use the US life+70 rule, which means wait until 2024. Hesperian 23:40, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Thats a shame. Moondyne (talk) 01:09, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes. But a correction is needed to the above. US is only life+70 for works published after 1977. For works before that, it is simply +95, so wait until 2019. Hesperian 01:53, 27 April 2010 (UTC)


That is the page with OCR, when you are done, please get back to me and I will delete the file. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:46, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Thankyou squire. I owes you one. Moondyne (talk) 08:29, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


You have one now? What does yours look like? Mine is almost a pamphlet: bound in cardboard and tied with string, with the cover plate literally glued onto the cardboard cover. There's no date given in the front matter, but one of the ads in the back is dated October 1917. I am thinking that I may have fluked a first edition.

If yours is different, we might need to give some thought about which one we ought to scan....

Hesperian 14:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

"It 'contains more married love to the square inch than anything I ever read,' wrote E. V. Lucas when Doreen was first published in 1917.

You may well have. I don't think it was a big seller so guess there weren't many reprints; Mine's a 1981 reprint in unused condition. No mention of other reprints in publishers notes. ISBN 0207142866. Size and similar binding to early Bloke and Mick editions. So I assume its a close facsimile. Moondyne (talk) 02:51, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Sounds like I had better scan mine then. Hesperian 05:15, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Yep. Moondyne (talk) 06:26, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

The new line, a paragraph, is usually shown by two returns, I use this to replace the indent and no line spacing that was the fashion of the time. There is a way to reproduce that formatting, though it still retains the line between the paragraphs; it seems redundant to have both. Okay with you to continue removing that? Cygnis insignis (talk) 15:23, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Think the rest is done now. You should put it up for FT: I seem to recall someone writing the pitch. Cygnis insignis (talk) 23:52, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, you really should. :-) I've come to the considered view that Bloke is the greatest book ever written; it definitely ought to be featured. Hesperian 05:02, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

We made short work of that, didn't we? Nine days ago we were discussing which copy to scan; and now it's finished! Thanks for the validation. :-) Hesperian 04:46, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Could you look at Page:Digger Smith (C.J. Dennis, 1918).djvu/16 and see what I'm doing wrong the ns page shows the 2 toc page links one immediately below the other. Moondyne (talk) 04:52, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
How bizarre. Sorry, I have no idea. Hesperian 05:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
No worries, glad it wasn't anything obviously or stupid on my part. Cosmetic, so I won't be worrying about it. Moondyne (talk) 07:30, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Little request[edit]

Notice modeled after [6]

As Template:New texts is monitored in IRC, and many users have it in their Watchlists, I was wondering whether you would consider adding the name of the text being added to the edit summary, rather than solely +1,-1. Even if it is just have +Name of work, -1 that would be most helpful. Thanks. -- Cirt (talk) 00:57, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

I will try my hardest, but not sure I'll remember. Cheers. Moondyne (talk) 01:29, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. ;) Cheers. -- Cirt (talk) 17:40, 19 May 2010 (UTC)


G'day mate,

Have been fooling around with doing OCR fixes to djvu-embedded text. Just uploaded a new djvu of Kimberly with 2231 OCR errors corrected. It should make the job of proofing easier, though probably not so you'd notice.

Hesperian 04:44, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Just had a quick look at some new pages and it doesn't seem a whole lot different but as you say I'd probably not notice anyway. With Part1 complete, and barring pressure from the proofeader, I'm not planning going back there too much if at all. But we'll see. Moondyne (talk) 07:20, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Essays on Early Ornithology and Kindred Subjects/Australian Birds in 1697[edit]

For no particular reason this struck me as something you might like to read and validate. Hesperian 07:06, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Cool. Moondyne (talk) 15:09, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
That was quick; glad you enjoyed it. :-) Hesperian 22:54, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Index:History of Western Australia[edit]

The reason for changing pages to Problematic is that I am learning to be a Copyeditor and Proofreader, and my tutor says a document is not properly proofread unless it has images etc. in the right places. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 07:51, 24 March 2011 (UTC)

No, that's OK I've been validating some of the pages without images. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 08:12, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Re your bot[edit]

You may wish to consider putting the talk page info on the bot's user page, and then redirecting the talk page here. Also might be worth a quick look at Wikisource:Alternate accounts. Billinghurst (talk) 23:18, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Moondyne (talk) 00:21, 28 March 2011 (UTC)


{{helpme}} Any watchers: why am I getting "Error: no such file" att Index:Letters of Junius, volume 1 (Woodfall, 1772)? Moondyne (talk) 04:30, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

You're missing the .djvu in the file name. I'll move it for you in a moment. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:41, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Derr! Thanks mate. Moondyne (talk) 04:44, 27 May 2011 (UTC)


You have lots of pages tied up there, and to the system all the pages show up as transcluded. Do you have plans to move the page over completely, or do you plan to split them out and transclude each? — billinghurst sDrewth 02:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

Hey mate. I blanked the page while billinghurst is looking for problems. This text is a big job, and you have done an impressive amount of work, I don't suppose there will be a problem with reverting me when you feel like working on it again. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 02:31, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Or can we help to transclude them to the main namespace. I didn't want to interfere if there was a plan. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:08, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
Thanks both: blanking is fine. I think I created the page just to get a word count of the whole shebang and forgot to delete it. This albatross has been going for 3.5 years and I have run out of steam to finish it off. If anyone would like help by transcluding the individual biographies, please feel free. I'm super busy in RL and dont see me spending much time here in the short to medium term anyways. Cheers to youse all! Moondyne (talk) 09:02, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
All transcluded, and I blanked the page again. It would be great if you would be able to add it to {{new texts}}. Do I presume that these are to be linked to WP articles? Do you have a template there ready, or do is the need to build one from one of the existing cite templates. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:30, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
I am very grateful for your hard work, Sir. I owe you a beer. No plans, no template, but a good idea. {{new texts}} is updated. Cheers. Moondyne (talk) 00:50, 2 August 2011 (UTC)
Mmmmm BEER! Little Creatures … Fremantle beer house! Great bad experience. :-) — billinghurst sDrewth 04:54, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Congrats on completing Junius[edit]

Hi, I see you've just completed Junius. Well done! It's been a long haul and it must be a good feeling to have "knocked the bugger off" as we say on this side of the Tasman. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 01:36, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Thats exactly how I felt as of about 5 minutes ago! Thanks!. Moondyne (talk) 01:39, 28 February 2012 (UTC)


Awesome! I've been distracted by shiny things lately but I'll try and turn some of those yellow pages to green ones in the next few days. Lankiveil (talk) 12:50, 28 February 2012 (UTC).

Thanks mate. Moondyne (talk) 13:26, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

Woohoo Davis's work![edit]

What a great job and in a fraction over two weeks! Thanks for your enthusiastic participation and your work on the images. [I have done some forensics, and just need to research the drawing artist a little more and then get that info into Commons, and finish the image categorisation.]. You went with the flow with me over <blockquote> and if you think that it doesn't look good when transcluded then let me know, and I can run the bot through and convert to {{tl|smaller block}. [It is easier to go from blockquote → small block by bot, than the reverse; which is why I go that way and look at the finished product for a final decision.] For me, I just find Firefox makes the small a fraction too small, the fontsize don't play well for me. I also had a hack at the index display and just made it continuous, stuck anchors on it, and a targetted TOC at the top. I have asked Phe if he could do his linking magic on the Index, so that the page numbers become active links.

As you are far more the enWP specialist than I, are you going to find juicy places to link onwards? — billinghurst sDrewth 15:06, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Bill, what a great collaboration! I much preferred your use <blockquote which I'd not known of previously and will surely use this occasionally from now on. I'm not fussed about text size here-the indents provide sufficient emphasis. My coding on the index was crap, so any improvement is welcome. Cheers. P.S. those guys sure liked eating horses didn't they? Moondyne (talk) 00:18, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
To note that you can always apply css style and classes to a blockquote <blockquote style="font-weight:900; font-variant:small-caps;">{{lorem ipsum}}</blockquote> …

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Not that I have done much, just know that we can. And yes, I have found that having the point of difference has been what has been useful — billinghurst sDrewth 12:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
Sweet. Moondyne (talk) 12:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
I have brashly nominated it onto WS:FTC, a sesquicentennial gift for Davis. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

"Wikisource: E-Book "[edit]

Hello, Moondyne. Where did you conjure up a nom de plume like that, dining out under the Moonshine? Well, let us proceed; I found this and thought you should take a look at it. It seems to be very important and I know you and Jeepday are working in that area for Wikisource from my watchlist that shows new messages.

Too, there is an app for the PC (personal Computers) that can be used instead of Kindle for book downloads that I downloaded for FREE long ago and again today.

I use a PC and I use the app they supply for free. I also have and use the EPUBReader of my Firefox Browser version 17.0.1

Have a wonderful day friend and the best of Holidays to you and your family. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 19:40, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

G'day Maury.
w:Moondyne Joe was a well known rogue and escape-artist from earlier times in these parts. I just like the sound of his name ;)
I've never used a Kindle, and after reading that link as well as Jeepday's instructions, I don't think I ever will. I recently started using an iPad which I know is the antithesis of "open", but dummies like me can work it, getting a WS book onto it is a cinch, and books (especially with images) look great on it.
All the best to you too my friend. Moondyne (talk) 00:41, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Fascinating! I have always wondered and sought out names and names of places to see where they come from. I like Erik Weisz aka Harry Houdini as an escape artist and fraud finder of so-called professional Spiritualists of his day (due initially to seeking his dead mother through mediums). I kept seeing Moondyne and wondering until I had to finally ask and I thank you for the reply. It seemed a bit fishy to me as in fantasy, a fish story of a name, or like the 1960's musicians "Quicksilver Messenger Service" or more like "Country Joe and the Fish" -- but it also reminded me of musician Frank Zappa who named his daughter "Moon". One of these days I will get the nerve to ask "Jim" where "Jeepday" comes from and ask him if he intends on it becoming another National Holiday. wink Meanwhile, because of the massive amounts of e-books for sale, and the constant many e-book reader updates, I think I will just keep Wikisource for homeport editing and reading as I edit and hardcopy illustrated books that are also portable and less expensive over time and technology advances. After all, I can only read one book at a time! Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 01:39, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Page maked problematic[edit]

It's not clear to me why you altered Page:The Early English Organ Builders and their work.djvu/81 and marked it as "Problematic". --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:59, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

The table in /81 and /82 aren't joining properly into The Early English Organ Builders and their work/Appendix I. Can you see what's wrong? Moondyne (talk) 23:08, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
The {{nop}} was on the wrong page. It goes at the top of each following page in a multi-page table. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks. I still fail to see why it makes a difference but it obviously does. Cheers. Moondyne (talk) 01:24, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Australian Sunshine[edit]

Moondyne, thank you so much for what you have done with the "The Clipper Ships Era" book. I wanted to do it but I was -- I don't know, either too stupid or too sleepy -- or some of both. I knew I didn't have the patience at the time to play around with any codes. I came to edit and save books but not to learn even as much as I have learned about codes. I have been working with some of my own old books that are not on all of Internet and that too takes time and patience. Initially there are three books (three school levels) on _Geography_ with beautiful color illustrations by Matthew Fontaine Maury I hate to take them apart but it has to be done to make new books from these originals. Well, again, I thank you and if ever I can do you some favor in return let me know. If you needed some validations just let me know where. Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 01:54, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Its my pleasure. Clipper Ships is an interesting book. Moondyne (talk) 01:56, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
quote: |(Undo revision 4249970 by William Maury Morris II (talk) rvt. watchoo doin maury?)
_With the specific process of transclusion you refer to I never really know._ Too, you and I were online and in the same area at the same time. I thought I had corrected something. My sincere apologies. Aside from that I was reading about Australia and Joe Moondyne who was famous for escapes but he kept getting caught again. He was a Welshman as is my surname, Morris. Fantastic reading in the history of Australia. I am glad some escaped and became bushmen. It reminds me of John Singleton Mosby, a Confederate American. Respectfully, —Maury (talk) 17:39, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Jan 26, 1788: Australia Day. (Video: ) —Maury (talk) 13:05, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Vanity Fair edit clash[edit]

Hello Moondyne.

My turn to accidentally clash with your edit session! I overwrote your edit of Page:Vanity_Fair_1848.djvu/131 because I think I had corrected every item you had touched―and a few extras. Please check me while you are still fresh on page. I shall do something else for a while (actually going back to Macquarie as I haven't been editing there for a while now...)

Cheers, MODCHK (talk) 05:04, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Hi. its all good. It was a complete fluke because that was a random page selected by me. I'm off to work on my bbq for a while - slow roast lamb for Sunday dinner. Yum. Moondyne (talk) 05:14, 3 March 2013 (UTC)


noice — billinghurst sDrewth 09:46, 11 March 2013 (UTC)


Sorry to be a pain but that header is "Gathering Clouds" not "Darkening Clouds". By the way you can mark that font up with {{blackletter}} if you wish. Hesperian 14:34, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Cheers. :) Moondyne (talk) 14:37, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
On reflection, I wont be using blackletter in headers. Plain text will do. Moondyne (talk) 14:56, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Roger that. Hesperian 00:24, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

gadget for distinguishing your proofread pages[edit]

Down the bottom in the trial section there is a template that marks them differently from when you have edited the. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:01, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Following on here from conversation at billinghurst's talk page: I've made it "on demand", but not in the gadget itself, as I don't know if everyone who uses it would want it to be on-demand. I spent hours trying to add it as a "top icon", and couldn't make it work. I've now given up and added it as a toolbox item:
  1. Untick the gadget in your preferences
  2. Edit your common.js and append
  3. Clear your cache
  4. Load an index page and look for "Mark pages I can promote" in your sidebar toolbox.
Hesperian 06:50, 23 March 2013 (UTC)
Fantastic, works a treat. I had another useful idea (I'm full of ideas for other people to do!) here. Moondyne (talk) 07:08, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

The Dictionary of Australasian Biography, three more pages to validate[edit]

Hi Moondyne, if you get a chance, would you be able to validate the final three pages? Index:The Dictionary of Australasian Biography.djvu. 539 pages validated and three to go. I mentioned it to billinghurst a little while ago, but he's kinda busy I guess. Thanks! Diverman (talk) 11:57, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

All done - nice work Diverman. Moondyne (talk) 12:24, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

Vanity Fair[edit]

You misvalidated two wrong capital letters on page 535. You should spend more time validating each page to make sure they are correct. ResScholar (talk) 08:21, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Willdo. Moondyne (talk) 09:32, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

block text and font size[edit]

In validating a page you formatted, it appears to me that you were not aware that {{block center}} accommodates a font style option. That is, you can set an adjustment to the font size as part of that template, without invoking a separate template. See the change I made in this edit for an example of how this is done. And note that, if you forget the syntax, I've previously added the relevant documentation to the template so you can always look it up again (which is what I do). --EncycloPetey (talk) 07:00, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

You are correct. I was not aware of that until only a couple of weeks ago. I've since been using the style= parameter quite a bit. eg. [7]. Thanks. Moondyne (talk) 07:06, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Romance of Nature images[edit]

Moondyne, I won't be able to do those images after-all. Also, there is now a color image beside the gray scale image. —Maury (talk) 11:36, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

I'll get back to them in the next couple of days. Moondyne (talk) 14:44, 2 April 2013 (UTC)


I sent you an email nearly a week ago. Not sure if you haven't seen it, or you're treating it with the contempt it deserves. ;-) Hesperian 14:18, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Was missed somehow. So sorry. Replied. Moondyne (talk) 00:08, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Heads up at WS:AN Hesperian 11:23, 27 April 2013 (UTC)


You have new messages
Hello, Moondyne. You have new messages at Wylve's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Wylve (talk) 07:02, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Wikisource User Group[edit]

Wikisource, the free digital library is moving towards better implementation of book management, proofreading and uploading. All language communities are very important in Wikisource. We would like to propose a Wikisource User Group, which would be a loose, volunteer organization to facilitate outreach and foster technical development, join if you feel like helping out. This would also give a better way to share and improve the tools used in the local Wikisources. You are invited to join the mailing list 'wikisource-l' (English), the IRC channel #wikisource, the facebook page or the Wikisource twitter. As a part of the Google Summer of Code 2013, there are four projects related to Wikisource. To get the best results out of these projects, we would like your comments about them. The projects are listed at Wikisource across projects. You can find the midpoint report for developmental work done during the IEG on Wikisource here.

Global message delivery, 23:22, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Tenth Anniversary Contest runner up[edit]

WS:10 runner up

Congratulations, you were the runner up in the first week of the Tenth Anniversary Contest. I will be contacting Wikimedia UK regarding the prize, a £10 (GBP) voucher, soon to see how they want to handle that. The contest stated that this was an Amazon voucher but it you would prefer a different company that might be possible. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 00:07, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello Moondyne. If you could drop me an email on richard.nevell at we can set about getting the prize sorted. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:58, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Madame Butterfly[edit]

I have been thinking over your statement and I agree that it is a deeply sad story of a devoted wife but still, I think it cannot possibly be the most tragic story. There are so many to choose from I haven't any idea what would be the saddest. Too, I would rather go to the happiest of operas. I myself have never seen an opera. I had (now deceased} an elderly kins-lady, Mrs. Mary Waller Shepard Soper who had a ranch and raised purebred horses and also who went to many operas. She told me that the "German operas are the best." She would not hesitate to travel to other nations just to see a "good opera". I thought she was a tad nuts at first from things she said but learned she was just very rich. —Maury (talk) 03:51, 23 December 2013 (UTC)


I only just noticed you've been validating some of my Henry James work. Thankyou very much! Hesperian 01:01, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Cheers. Happy new year! Moondyne (talk) 13:40, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
And you :-) Hesperian 13:55, 2 January 2014 (UTC)


Template:right can take a right indent parameter {{right|lotsa text to the right|2em}}

lotsa text to the right

{{right|lotsa text to the right|4em}}

lotsa text to the right

billinghurst sDrewth 11:14, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Noted. Probably mostly unnecessary there anyway, but thanks. Moondyne (talk) 15:12, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

wikimania panel?[edit]

a bird was suggesting that you were interested in WikiSource activities ? how about a User:Charles Matthews panel, DNB success story. a reception would be nice to recruit, although there aren’t many pubs near the barbican, ? Slowking4Farmbrough's revenge 16:54, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Only a faint idea of what you’re talking about, however its highly unlikely I’ll be at Wikimania. Cheers. Moondyne (talk) 01:11, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Just asking ...[edit]

I look at this and the work you do around the place, the opinions that you have, the value you are to our site, and I wonder why we haven't donged you with a hat and more buttons. As you are mates with a fellow admin, I am guessing that you have been prodded elsewhere, but in case that hasn't happened, would you consider the role? — billinghurst sDrewth 22:32, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. Yes they have and at this time no thanks. I’m quite happy doing what I’m doing. Moondyne (talk) 01:35, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
PS. Nice tool. Moondyne (talk) 01:42, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
I presume you mean the link, not the contributor.winkbillinghurst sDrewth 10:36, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
 :). Moondyne (talk) 11:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Further to your recent email "Now if you had accepted the offer, and been successful, you could do it yourself … " — billinghurst sDrewth 12:17, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Irony noted! Moondyne (talk) 13:02, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

Progress Template Used on Wikidata Maintenance Page[edit]

Nice work, @Moondyne:! I really appreciate your efforts to make the progress bar dynamic. Amazing. I didn't realize we could pull in results from queries like you have demonstrated. Thanks for the lesson. Have a great day. -- DutchTreat (talk) 10:07, 26 March 2014 (UTC)


I do not know if you recall teaching me about Joe Moondyne in Australia but you did. Now, the book you mentioned about boxing shows the following. [also on Google]

by John Boyle O'Reilly

John Boyle O'Reilly (1844-1890) was an Irish-born poet and novelist. As a youth in Ireland he was a member of the Irish Republican Brotherhood, for which crime he was transported to Western Australia.

After escaping to the United States, he became a prominent spokesperson for Irish sentiment and culture, through his editorship of the Boston newspaper The Pilot, his prolific writing, and his lecture tours.

O'Reilly published his first book of poems, Songs from the Southern Seas, in 1873. Over the next fifteen years, he would publish another three collections of poetry, a novel, and a treatise on health and exercise. His poetry was extremely popular at the time, and he was often commissioned to write poems for important and commemorative occasions.

Most of his earlier work is nowadays dismissed as mere popular verse, but some of his later, more introspective poetry, such as his best known poem The Cry of the Dreamer, is still highly regarded.

Amongst his other works are: Moondyne (1879), Songs, Legends, and Ballads (1878) and The King's Men: A Tale of To-morrow (with others) (1884).

My Respects to such men fighting and suffering and writing for a good cause. —Maury (talk) 14:15, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. We have some of his works at Author:John Boyle O'Reilly. He had an amazing life. Cheers. Moondyne (talk) 15:50, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Good morning, thank you for the welcome.[edit]

I am interested and being an avid reader will read the instructions and then see if I can dedicate some time each week, thanks.

Paulette unsigned comment by Paula804 (talk) .

Moondyne, your Enterprise and Adventure book is ready now[edit]

Moondyne, your desired book is ready now. All watermarks were removed. - the name of the file will be Enterprise and Adventure.djvu Please re-check all pages before downloading from the source file. Kindest regards, —Maury (talk) 15:37, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Automated import of openly licensed scholarly articles[edit]

Hello Moondyne,

We are putting together a proposal about the automated import of openly licensed scholarly articles, and since you are an active Wikisourceror, we'd appreciate yourcomments on the Scriptorium. For convenience, I'm copying our proposal here:

The idea of systematically importing openly licensed scholarly articles into Wikisource has popped up from time to time. For instance, it formed the core of WikiProject Academic Papers and is mentioned in the Wikisource vision. However, the Wikiproject relied on human power, never reached its full potential, and eventually became inactive. The vision has yet to materialise.
We plan to bridge the gap through automation. We are a subset of WikiProject Open Access (user:Daniel Mietchen, user:Maximilanklein, user:MattSenate), and we have funding from the Open Society Foundations via Wikimedia Deutschland to demo suitable workflows at Wikimania (see project page).
Specifically, we plan to import Open Access journal articles into Wikisource when they are cited on Wikipedia. The import would be performed by a group of bots intended to make reference handling more interoperable across Wikimedia sites. Their main tasks are:
  • (on Wikipedia) signalling which references are openly licensed, and link them to the full text on Wikisource, the media on Commons and the metadata on Wikidata;
  • (on Commons) importing images and other media associated with the source article;
  • (on Wikisource) importing the full text of the source article and embedding the media in there;
  • (on Wikidata) handling the metadata associated with the source article, and signalling that the full text is on Wikisource and the media on Commons.
These Open Access imports on Wikisource will be linked to and from other Wikimedia sister sites. Our first priority though will be linking from English Wikipedia, focusing on the most cited Open Access papers, and the top-100 medical articles.
In order to move forward with this, we need
  • General community approval
  • Community feedback on workflows and scrutiny on our test imports in specific.
  • Bot permission. For more technical information read our bot spec on Github.

Maximilianklein (talk) 18:20, 20 June 2014 (UTC)


Moondyne (talk) 14:53, 17 July 2014 (UTC)


Toolbar and RegExp issues[edit]


I've made some changes to your common.js file based on the screen-grab you posted. It was troubling not to see any of the WikiEditor toolbar additions never mind the missing RegExp menu. See if that changes anything.

If not, are you sure you've disabled both 'Show edit toolbar' and 'Enable advanced wizards for inserting....' in your User: preferences and only have 'Enabled enhanced editing toolbar' enabled?

What about gadgets? Do you happen to have either 'use the old LST section labels' or 'add OCR button' enabled? -- George Orwell III (talk) 06:50, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

I have now disabled ’show edit toolbar’ [8]. Screen now shows pagetools sidebar options, but none do anything. [9]. TemplateScript regex editor does work. Gadgets, no: [10]. Moondyne (talk) 07:41, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Still - we made some progress regarding the toolbar buttons. My only question on that point is if you want the Char[acter]Insert bar back above the WikiEditor bar or leave it just above the edit Summary: field after the edit box. I've made that position a legit option since some folks seem to prefer it always reside there regardless of the namespace.

Moving on; how about the gadget labeled 'Add a sidebar menu of user-defined regex tools, with a dynamic form for instant one-use regex' (seems to me like that's the old tool that Pathoschild is replacing)? If that is enabled, try disabling it & then see if the other menu of options (Page tools) work then. You'll have to the cache clearing thing after every change btw.

If none that helped, you'd need to return to the other discussion started on Pathoschild's page & ask for further help there. Remember to mention that I made some changes/re-ordered stuff in your common.js file to help get the WikiEditor buttons back since the last time he edited it if you do. -- George Orwell III (talk) 07:55, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your help. Yes, I would prefer the Char[acter]Insert bar back above the WikiEditor bar. When I re-enable ’show edit toolbar’ this comes back - so all good in that dept. 'Add a sidebar menu of user-defined regex tools' is enabled. I’ve disabled and tested and re-enabled and tested but still the sidebar scrips she no work. Will post to Pathoschild's page as you suggest. Moondyne (talk) 08:14, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Uggg. You've missed the point - at least for the foreseeable future, you must ALWAYS keep 'show edit toolbar' OFF. I've made the change to legitimately load the CharInsert bar above the WikEditor toolbar through your .js file so don't worry about that.

You should then disable the RegEx gadget, clear your cache and re-test. If still no luck - back over on the Pathoschild discussion, make sure you still mention the previous about my change(s) to your .js file AND the fact you have now have the "old" RegEx gadget disabled as well to him. Good luck. -- George Orwell III (talk) 08:35, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

One more thing even before the above -- now that I've carefully looked over your gadget selections - please disable both 'Disable OCR button in the Page namespace' as well as 'Allow pages to override my dynamic layout preference on a case-by-case basis' gadgets. These are simple one-line overrides that should never have been gadgets in the first place. I've set the equivalents directly in your .js file instead so they will do as before but without the need to enable them in your preferences (which screws up the load of things or conflicts with the things in your .js - like the new menu of scripts for example). -- George Orwell III (talk) 08:55, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Everything disabled [11] [12] but sidebarscripts still not working. Moondyne (talk) 13:16, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

I read that you got it working - thats great. The reversion patch has been applied as well so you can enable/disable 'show edit toolbar' as you wish (supposedly). I still think enabling it only invites loading issues - your results may differ however, Prost. -- George Orwell III (talk) 01:00, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Many thanks for your help. Moondyne (talk) 06:13, 3 September 2014 (UTC)


Madras Journal... hmmm... Milligan? Hesperian 15:20, 31 October 2014 (UTC)

OK? The seed was def from your todo list, and that may be as far as it goes. Will see. Moondyne (talk) 13:58, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
Oh wow, I have a to-do list. I didn't know that was there. It must be years old. I saw Madras Journal and something in my brain said Milligan. A bit of poking around led me to this, which confirmed it. Hesperian 14:09, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
William Lane Milligan got a contemporary review here. Moondyne (talk) 14:53, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

December PotM[edit]

Hi, we seem to be motoring through the Baseball book and will need a second book. We could pick up Index:Athletics and Manly Sport (1890).djvu, or do you want to see that through yourself? Or, is there something else in the games/sport area that would be of interest? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:39, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi. I'd be very happy to have some help with that! The first section is mainly about boxing and ancient Irish games. Moondyne (talk) 09:00, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Cricketing Reminiscences and Personal Recollections would be nice too. Admittedly ghost-written, it is one of only 2 books (the other being Cricket) written under the name of the father of the sport and contains a wealth of important detail on its formative years. Good quality scans and images. Page 400 onwards is mostly statistical tables I think - these could be passed over. Moondyne (talk) 16:25, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

New Proposal Notification - Replacement of common main-space header template[edit]

Announcing the listing of a new formal proposal recently added to the Scriptorium community-discussion page, Proposals section, titled:

Switch header template foundation from table-based to division-based

The proposal entails the replacement of the current Header template familiar to most with a structurally redesigned new Header template. Replacement is a needed first step in series of steps needed to properly address the long time deficiencies behind several issues as well as enhance our mobile device presence.

There should be no significant operational or visual differences between the existing and proposed Header templates under normal usage (i.e. Desktop view). The change is entirely structural -- moving away from the existing HTML all Table make-up to an all Div[ision] based one.

Please examine the testcases where the current template is compared to the proposed replacement. Don't forget to also check Mobile Mode from the testcases page -- which is where the differences between current header template & proposed header template will be hard to miss.

For those who are concerned over the possible impact replacement might have on specific works, you can test the replacement on your own by entering edit mode, substituting the header tag {{header with {{header/sandbox and then previewing the work with the change in place. Saving the page with the change in place should not be needed but if you opt to save the page instead of just previewing it, please remember to revert the change soon after your done inspecting the results.

Your questions or comments are welcomed. At the same time I personally urge participants to support this proposed change. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:04, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

PSM V41 D310 J W Powell.jpg[edit]

@Moondyne: File:PSM V41 D310 J W Powell.jpg Here is the link to the image.— Ineuw talk 06:04, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Much appreciated. Moondyne (talk) 06:44, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Most welcome. I was quite surprised at the collection of images in commons:Category:John Wesley Powell In fact he appeared in PSM in three different volumes. Live and learn. :-)— Ineuw talk 18:42, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
I clearly didn’t look too hard—I would have borrowed one of those... Moondyne (talk) 23:57, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
There is another better copy of the same image also from another PSM volume, you can use that. No one will complain, I certainly won't.— Ineuw talk 05:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)