User talk:Shenme

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Hello, Shenme, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for joining the project. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Carl Spitzweg 021-detail.jpg

You may be interested in participating in

Add the code {{active projects}}, {{PotM}} or {{CotW}} to your page for current wikisource projects.

You can put a brief description of your interests on your user page and contributions to another Wikimedia project, such as Wikipedia and Commons.

Have questions? Then please ask them at either

I hope you enjoy contributing to Wikisource, the library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please "sign" your comments using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your IP address (or username if you're logged in) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click edit) and place {{helpme}} before your question.

Again, welcome! Beeswaxcandle (talk) 05:55, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Reference markers, etc.[edit]

Hi, in answer to your question about replicating the * † etc. reference markers used in some printed works. It was a decision made many years ago here to use only wikirefs and thereby to standardise the presentation of references, footnotes and endnotes. For more info see Help:Footnotes and endnotes.

With respect to your other ponders on Page:Natural History, Fishes.djvu/231, the Style guide gives information on ellipses and dashes. The strong preference is to use the characters.

For typographical errors that require noting to the reader use {{SIC|wrong spelling|correct spelling}}. The wrong spelling will display with a light grey underline. Hovering the mouse will reveal the correct spelling. e.g. leearn

Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:57, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Caption formatting[edit]

Hello. Stumbled across your edit summary question, and I tweaked the formatting for the missing image caption at this page. Hope you are enjoying editing Wikisource. Lots of contributors available to help/give suggestions, etc. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:00, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

P.S. I noticed you have been formatting using {{smaller|{{smaller in captions. If it is your intention to make the lettering smaller than {{smaller}}, then we have {{x-smaller}} &c. I used {{smaller block}} in my edit to the page linked to above in order to achieve the single line space you were looking for, among other reasons. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:13, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. And thanks for the explanation about block. I had seen something like that done by Jasonanaggie and didn’t know why they’d done that. I’ll look again.
Drat, edit conflict wiped my earlier reply, but that’s exactly what I was asking, about the smaller&smaller. Thanks.
But it’s small bits like this, that make me wish there were suggestions or standards under the index talk page, to allow newbies to conform comfortably. After all, each project/book has its subtle oddities… :-) Shenme (talk) 20:20, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
Each work certainly does have its own oddities! Good insight. The ideal is to match the original as faithfully as possible, keeping in mind we do not have the same limitations found in physical copies of books (where typesetting, etc. is concerned). Much is learned "on the job" here, but there is good guidance to be found. You are always welcome to begin establishing formatting guidelines yourself at the Index talk page. If others come along to edit, it would be good for them to have such guidance so formatting can be uniform throughout the text. Consistency is key. Often, you will find different ways to format the same text. Sometimes there are good technical justifications for certain methods of formatting, and sometimes the choice is merely a matter of opinion as to what formatting is "best" to use... Look/ask around... Find what works, and works for you. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:33, 23 September 2018 (UTC)


On Wikisource, we mark pages as "Validated" only when all aspects of the page have been corrected. If a page is missing an image, we mark the page as "Problematic", even though we might make corrections to the text. We work this way so that people who edit images can find those pages the require the addition of an image. If a page is "Validated", we assume the image has already been put into place. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:09, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Ahhh… I thought I’d been diverted/elated by finding a separate problem on /37, but I did that goof twice. So, thanks for looking out for mistakes. Shenme (talk) 03:07, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

Index lines with multiple page refs[edit]

Thanks for pointing this out. It seems that the line breaks (which I introduced) caused problems with the index formatting. I have reverted them to spaces.--Keith Edkins (talk) 16:58, 8 October 2018 (UTC)


Hi, I see you're getting involved in A Dictionary of Music and Musicians. The only style guide I've been following for the past 9 years while slowly working on this is detailed at WS:WikiProject DMM.

To answer some of your questions/ponders on User:Shenme/admmv1:

  • List of contributors is already transcluded at A Dictionary of Music and Musicians/List of Contributors
  • {{larger}} is very rare for me to have used in the Dictionary
  • My intention for populating author pages with the articles is once all article pages are proofread and then transcluded, I will then proofread the last few pages in Vol. 4 (The Catalogue) and then transclude the sections from that into the author pages. The reason for waiting is that I'm still not sure what all the articles will actually be called.
  • We don't use "curly quotes" at enWS by policy
  • For the variations in {{rh}} formatting—this is very minor as these are never seen by the general reader after transclusion. If the same word is at the top of both columns, I haven't bothered typing it twice. However, the option with the page number centred is wrong.
  • Collapse all linebreaks within paragraphs immediately. I use a cleanup script that deals with them in one go.
  • Column breaks are not required to be marked—they are a printer's artefact and aren't reproduced in the electronic medium.
  • Section markers. I see from your notes that you're using the so-called "Easy LST" gadget. I think it's turned on by default. I don't use it because it adds complexities to what Help:Transclude calls Advanced Transclusion. As a result I use the <section begin=XXX />Blah<section end=XXX /> structure rather than strewing double-# markers around.
  • In terms of what to use in a section name, the simple answer is: as much as is necessary to be unique for the page(s) on which an article is found. A more complex answer for DMM is that I've been using enough to make sense for whoever is coming behind me to validate.
  • Smallcaps should be used whenever and only whenever the article prints them. This is pretty much restricted to Christian names and internal references to other articles.
  • On the whole misspellings are rare in the DMM. I have only marked with {{{1}}} those that would change the meaning of a sentence.
  • With respect to scores, I would prefer them all to be Lilypond, but there are a few (in Category:DMM pages with score problems) that are defying me at present and we may have to resort to image files in the end.

When transcluding articles, I've set up a special version of the header template called {{DMM}}. Documentation is there on what the fields mean.

That's probably enough to be going on with. I'm watching this page, so feel free to ask me further questions here (or ask for clarifications where I've been too brief in my comments). Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:56, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your attention. My motivation comes from wishing others avoid the confused search for simple truths, or worse for the project, the need to repair their wrong assumptions. I took up fun here at another project with no style guidelines, and now I see the post-processors undoing various attempts at fidelity. And they’re even jamming in curlies. Confounding that…
A combined master list of contributors all in one page is exactly the kind of greasing the ways that is appreciated by the passing editor. But then, it should be easily locatable/identifiable by that occasional editor.
As a non-expert in most everything, I bring few biases and, more wonderfully, many confusions. Thus I will come up stupid questions which answers might help others. For instance, in the attributions, should the initials be formatted by their sometimes appearance as "R.H.M.B." or, as I suspect, as "R. H. M. B.", and always the latter, for readability. In fact, I’d want to make it so easy for newcomers/occasionals that I’d want to have a list somewhere for the editors like:
{{right|[ [[Author:Addison_F._Andrews|A. F. A.]] ]}}
{{right|[ [[Author:Carl_Armbruster|C. A.]] ]}}
{{right|[ [[Author:David_Baptie|D. B.]] ]}}
usw. so they could just copy-n-paste. Make it so brains are used little for ’how to’ and more for the text.
Being stupid, insane, and sometimes energetic can be useful to others, if directed well. Let’s hope the energy holds out - the rest is incurable. Shenme (talk) 19:28, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
My intention was to put spaces between all the initials in the contributor attributions, regardless of how any individual article might display them. Consistency is important here. Having said that, it's quite likely that I've missed a few and left them unspaced. And I'm happy for the Esq. to be moved out of the links for E. D. et al.
I'm a firm believer when training/mentoring that the only stupid questions are the ones that aren't asked. Having lived and breathed DMM for 9 years means that at times I'm too close to the details to see the inconsistencies. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:04, 10 October 2018 (UTC)


Best place is to look elsewhere in the same work to see what the editor has done: A Dictionary of Music and Musicians/Pianoforte --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:36, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Yes, well in doing that I had found the other variations, "Piano-Forte" and "Piano-forte", though in vol 3, and perhaps in a topic referencing the revolutionary ’new’ instrument. I opted for the much more numerous version minus hyphen. I restrict search to just ’page’ and add intitle:"A Dictionary of …" and the keywords searched for. In another project this was useful as the terminology was rather idiosyncratic. Shenme (talk) 04:58, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Thank you[edit]

I thank you for notifying me of the error in the Preface to the bee treatise. I do not know why the {{bl}} does not call correctly in the transclusion; I hope that someone who has more knowledge on the matter would go through the index pages and correct the errors. TE(æ)A,ea. (talk) 18:11, 30 November 2018 (UTC).

@TE(æ)A,ea.: your attempt to use a single {{bl}} template across multiple pages is not going to work. Attempting to use <noinclude> on the closing braces is clever but will not fool the parser. You will need to simply split the text into two sections, ending one instance of {{bl}} at the end of one page and opening a new one at the start of the next page. See my fixes on page 43 and page 44. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:41, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

the score[edit]

You did a nice job, at a quick glance. You should move it into place. If I move it into place, it will give the appearance that I know how to use the software and I don't want to leave a wrong message like that.

One of my biggest fears, since becoming involved with the world of software and its people and culture is that I show up unable to do what I have claimed or even guessed I could do. Asking me to move that is asking me to add fire to the stack of kindling which are my worse fears.--RaboKarbakian (talk) 14:09, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

links that work in some places....[edit]


I don't know if linking this way is helpful here, but it was really helpful with the Plates in the Botany of the Antarctic where separate publications were linked together.

I can provide a better example if you need it.

You are very thorough, especially compared to me. :) --RaboKarbakian (talk) 18:19, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Antony and Cleopatra[edit]

The title should display simply as "Antony and Cleopatra". The additional "(1921) Yale" in the pagename is to distinguish it from other works of the same or similar title, but is not part of the title itself and should not be displayed in the header. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:03, 8 January 2019 (UTC)