Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help

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 The Scriptorium is Wikisource's community discussion page. This subpage is especially designated for requests for help from more experienced Wikisourcers. Feel free to ask questions or leave comments. You may join any current discussion or a new one. Project members can often be found in the #wikisource IRC channel webclient. This page is automatically archived by Wikisource-bot Have you seen our help pages and FAQs?

Martha j. Lamb

"the Christmas owl"--I'm looking for a picture of this book and value

Thanks Walker

Merchants of Venice

I would like to find out if there were any famous merchants of Venice during 15th and 16th Centuries. Ben Shishi

(moved from Main Scriptorium page) Behvaiour on preview and save is widely inconsistent to say the least. Please can you advise as to why seeminlgy on the pahse of the moon the transcluded portions from la.wikisource will or will not show up in preview and or on the page as dispayled in my userspace? Thanks ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:34, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

OK something seems to be really f***d up with LST. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:23, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
Things appear to be stabalising a little but the transclusion is still random. It's there on load and not the next.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)
(Update) - I'm still seeing this issue, EVEN after I thought I'd resolved the pagelist gotchas noted elsewhere.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:16, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

Laws and Acts of the Parliament of Scotland

I found this: - https://archive.org/details/lawsactsofparlia00scot

Ia-Upload won't allow upload of it on Commons as it's fairly big, so I was wondering if someone here had the djvu skills to get uploaded onto commons in a sensible manner.

There are some other works mentioned here- http://www.rps.ac.uk/static/editorialintro.html but I couldn't find scans of them, It's a shame the site concerned being academic isn't under CC-BY-SA:( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:22, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Update- Yannf was kind enough to upload this, but in checking the pagelist I found some missing pages as detailed, any takers for inserting blank placeholders?.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:32, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
The relevant Index being - Index:The Laws and Acts of Parliament of Scotland.djvuShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC)
I'll have a go at it. Jpez (talk) 05:37, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
I've added the placeholders, page numbering has to be redone though. Jpez (talk) 07:19, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. Next task, tracking down the missing pages, St Andrews University maybe (given they did a major projects on Scottish Statutes a couple of years ago)?. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:24, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Mrs Beeton (1907) Bulk move/merge request.

• [[Index:Mrs. Beeton's Book of Household Management (Part 1).djvu]] contains pages 1-1267
• [[Index:Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management (Part 2).djvu]] contains page 1268, onward

It would be appreciated if someone with the relevant script or AWB did a bulk move and merge to Index:Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management.djvu which contains the entire work. Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:31, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Bot requests belong where? Oh ... Wikisource:Bot requests. I am presuming that we have evidence that it is the same edition for both parts. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC) — billinghurst sDrewth
We do. That's why I got the combined version. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:33, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Help needed with the named ref tag

I searched Mediawiki manpages for information, but unfortunately it lacks the info on how to refer to a named tag that extends to more than two pages

Page 1 <ref name="ABC"></ref>
Page 2 <ref follow="ABC"></ref>
Page 3 ???

Thanks in advance. — Ineuw talk 02:59, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I think that you just repeat "follow=" on page 3 as you did for page 2, but I can't seem to locate right now one of the examples where I've had to deal with this before. . . --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:03, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. It is so. I checked the transclusion and it joins correctly.— Ineuw talk 03:14, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Good. If something should go strangely, then I think you can also do this:
Page 1 <ref name="ABC"></ref>
Page 2 <ref follow="ABC" name="XYZ"></ref>
Page 3 <ref follow="XYZ"></ref>
But I still haven't been able to find a definitive statement. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:25, 2 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes, first is "name" and anything subsequent are all "follow=...", as every subsequent reference gets treated the same, and will be concatenated to the primary "name=..." tag. The code that ThomasV did basically means that all "follow" components don't have the leading visual marker for a ref, and allows concatenation and inserts a space between concatenations (as I remember from the code review back in the dark ages). — billinghurst sDrewth 05:47, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Noting that ThomasV did the follow tag specifically for the Wikisources (after much hassle getting that code reviewed) and I believe that we hold the primary help text at Help:Footnotes and endnotes and we probably should put that to Mediawiki:billinghurst sDrewth 07:02, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

I really would not bother as mw:Extension:Cite#Merging_two_texts_into_a_single_reference pretty much covers it at least as well. AuFCL (talk) 07:08, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
My concern was whether they are concatenated in page order? — Ineuw talk 07:18, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes they are concatenated in order that they are specified, and here that comes from the <pages> command. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:19, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
To save you following the link provided the relevant text is A typical wikisource issue is, how to merge into one reference texts split into different pages. This can be done using a <ref name="name"> tag for the first part of the reference, and tagging the following parts into different pages with a tag <ref follow="name">. Now maybe it could be more explicitly worded regarding the 2+ pages usage case but to my eyes that indicates choice of "name" or "follow" is an either/or-but-presumably-not-both one? AuFCL (talk) 07:24, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the info. — Ineuw talk 09:43, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Index page no longer correct

The index page for Index:Tacitus Histories Fyfe (1912) Vol1.djvu used to display correctly, but now the page sequence is all jumbled. It seems to be displaying the page sections in reverse order! --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:19, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Temporarily fixed. The actual culprit is this edit and perhaps you had best raise the matter with the author thereof? AuFCL (talk) 03:06, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Additional: Index:Tacitus Histories Fyfe (1912) Vol2.djvu was similarly affected and I have applied an even simpler form of the palliative there. AuFCL (talk) 03:11, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks! I knew the second volume's index page was also suffering, and suspected that finding one solution would solve both. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:28, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
Darn it! And I thought I was onto something but didn't consider that type of scenario until seeing it in practice. Reverted.

will continue to look for a "better" index: page template layout on test2.wikipedia.org however if anybody is interested. -- George Orwell III (talk) 13:02, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Need a way to make TOC page list to flow around an image

Page:On Our Selection.djvu/12. Any ideas? Moondyne (talk) 03:27, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

The TOC templates rely on tables, which won't be able to flow in this way. You will probably need to build the table explicitly without relying on TOC templates, or just put the image outside the TOC (float it before the TOC begins) and don't worry about the margins. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:42, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
You could create an extra column for the image, and the span columns below the image if you really think it is worth the effort. That would presumably mean ditching the dashed ToC template. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:07, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Moondyne (talk) 05:06, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Greek language template?

I am looking for a "missing language" template like (Greek characters)?unsigned comment by Ineuw (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2016‎ (UTC).

You can use {{language characters}} (Your own language characters)Mpaa (talk) 18:50, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
{{Greek missing}} is the template and it is based on the template that Mpaa mentions, and others can be created to meet the need of other languages. We created the master template to try and align of these help templates and categorisation. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:47, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
This template is sufficient. Thanks — Ineuw talk 01:23, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Just a question: What should a proofreader put if she doesn't know what language is missing? Is there a WTF missing template? Zoeannl (talk) 04:30, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I use {{symbol missing}} for characters I either don't recognise or know how to produce. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:40, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Verse numbering

Hi can someone please advise me how to go about verse numbering here. Page:The Holy Bible Vol 1 (Thomson).djvu/11 and also here Page:The Iliad of Homer (Butler).djvu/22. Thanks for any help. Jpez (talk) 07:57, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Well there is {{pline}}. Does it matter about the font size and colour being distinct from normal text, or is that an advantage to you? AuFCL (talk) 08:24, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks @AuFCL: I just tested pline and it looks perfect for the Iliad. For the bible there is a problem, for example

IIN the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was invisible and unfurnished and there was darkness over this abyss;

The verse numbers overlap each other if they are on the same line. If only the first verse number to come up in each line would be displayed it will be perfect. Thanks. Jpez (talk) 08:52, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
Good point. Well that puts paid to my alternate suggestions which were either {{float left}} or {{overfloat left}}—for much the same reasons. AuFCL (talk) 09:48, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
For translations of the Bible we're using {{verse}}. This contains an anchor for Chapter and Verse, so that we can directly link to the verses. For the Iliad {{pline}} is the best option. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:06, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Subject of poem

Does anyone know who the subject of this poem is? Thank you, Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:35, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

I am going to hazard Archpriest Bartolomeo Aragazzi. My Italian is not much chop but w:it:Monumento funebre di Bartolomeo Aragazzi might be useful? AuFCL (talk) 21:06, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
"...eminent for his vanity as for his poetry and learning"—having commissioned Donatello and Michelozzo to construct his monument twelve years before his death... Although Coates does not necessarily characterize him as vain, she writes that he sought "lasting fame"... There are "forms angelic" that are part of the monument. Close as I have yet come. Wish I could tie her "quotation" (re: lordly palaces, etc.) with corresponding text. Thanks for looking into it! I'll look into it closer. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:43, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Side notes

I have sidenotes in A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin. I find sidenotes problematic—ungainly and awkward—at present. I would be happy to transcribe these as refs. Any updates on sidenotes? Any comments or alternatives? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 04:36, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:Zoeannl. Moondyne (talk) 12:49, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Images

I quite like adding images—the help pages are pretty good— but not so sure of the final result. So questions:

1. I am assuming that any efforts are welcome as someone following can touch up or replace an image if they want to make better. Yes?
1. Is there a way to dictate greyscale as somehow my ultra-basic editing (to create white background) seems to colour the result e.g. on Page:A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin (1853).djvu/144
2. I am using the {{FIS}} template as I find it less intimidating and much easier to understand especially with the commentary from the PS PR guide. But it says DRAFT. Can I use it indiscriminately? I am technically indescriminate; I do not understand any ramifications of its use. If Draft just means that we're still tweeking things, I can cope with that. I am hoping that I am learning to use a template with a FUTURE. Is FIS the future?
1. Evidence as to Man's Place in Nature p. 104 has a caption spanning 2 pages. How to cope with this? (using FIS?)
3. These are two efforts: p. 2 and p. 9. Are they good enough?
1. Why is the caption not centered on p. 2?
2. First assumption—We always proofread captions so they are searchable. Yes?
3. Second assumption (from observation)—We always rotate images that are sideways in a book. Yes?
4. Third assumption—I am following [www.pgdp.org Distributed Proofreaders] practises as much as possible because they are obviously a lot more successful at proofreading; the assumption being their experience is worth transferring to facilitate proofreading. DP moves images to between paragraphs or to the top or bottom of the page. I use this rule if I can, where there are suitable paragraph returns available. As a rule, I retain hard returns at the end of the lines to facilitate proofreading, also DP practise; I am assuming these can be removed as the last stage of Validation. With a script? I remove them to see how the page would look with the text wrapping around the image.
4. I timourously ask for suggestions for image processing improvement at the risk of feeling totally overwhelmed by technicalities (it doesn't take much). At the moment I am using a web based editor on my Chromebook which I acknowledge isn't good. I have used image editing programs before but until I get another working computer, I am stuck with web-based options. But a recommendation of programs, downloaded or web-based would be followed with interest. And guidelines for minimum standards? I fully expect you haven't realised how necessary these are until you see how basic my efforts are…

Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 06:47, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Note about the "color" effects: I use basic image software as well. To eliminate color, you want to drag the saturation down to zero. Doing so will eliminate any color, and render the image entirely in shades of white, grey, and black. If your software is sophisticated enough, you can then adjust the contrast and brightness to ensure the background is white without losing image information. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Missing the djvu pages

This book which I just uploaded is missing the djvu pages, but has the text layer. What am I missing? — Ineuw talk 07:32, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Done , see now. Hrishikes (talk) 07:42, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks. I completely forgot about the resolution setting. This is was a fluid issue, like so many others in Wikisource. Previously, (years ago), I was told to set it to either 999 or 1001, which worked. Now, even when it's blank, the page also doesn't appear unless I click on edit 2-3 times. I will post here as I am playing with the settings because some setting got to work normally. — Ineuw talk 20:01, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
@Ineuw: I am not encountering the issue. The pages appear fine in my browser. Perhaps you need to purge? Hrishikes (talk) 01:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, the last time I looked it was OK. This only happened after I created the page. I played with several of the old resolution values and they didn't work, but after blanking all values as before, it seems to work for now. I will post again if I am running into problem. — Ineuw talk 02:13, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

header for The Master Thief" from the Red Book of fairy tales. cannot figure out how to add the dumb header? :}

This is the header for The Master Thief which I added to the Red Book of fairy tales. How in the heck do I get it into the page. I cannot find out how, just what a header is. thanks much Feralblue (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

| title      = "The Master Thief"
| author     =  P. C. Asbjornsen
| translator = Andrew Lang
| section    = "The Master Thief" tale
| previous   = "“The Black Thief Ana Knight of The Glen"
| next       = "Brother and Sister"
| year       =  1890
| notes      = from the Gutenberg.org
| categories = Fairy Tales
| portal     = www.gutenberg.org ›

I have fixed the page. Please note that you need to complete red links in the page, by copying the missing text there.— Mpaa (talk) 21:49, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Greek double-check request

Five pages of this work contain Greek text. Just wondering if someone would like to double-check my proofreading to make sure I have used correct symbols. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:03, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Done . There were a couple of instances of incorrect breathing (ἀ vs. ἁ) and one place where you capitalized θ, but it was well done. I just want to add that I changed the template from {{Greek}} to {{Polytonic}}, as it is my understanding that the latter is preferred when polytonic spelling is used (as in this case). Furthermore, I assumed that the rest of the page was proofread already and so marked the page as proofread. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:31, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks much! And yes, you assumed correctly with regard to being proofread. Thanks for correcting the templates. I would not know how to spot the difference. Appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
The difference is mostly to do with placement of accents - in polytonic Greek, most words have exactly one accent, and every word starting with a vowel also has a breathing indicator on that vowel. There is an example at w:Greek diacritics#Example. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:56, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Thank you. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
I'm unclear; monotonic Greek is a modern thing, but Ancient Greek historically didn't use accents. It also, however, didn't use lowercase. All the Greek we see, except for archaeological books, are going to be polytonic, no?--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
No. Modern texts containing words or passages from Modern Greek will be in the modern script and will be monotonic. However, modern texts containing words or passages of Ancient Greek text will be polytonic, using the system of breathing marks, varying accents, etc. which are not found in the Modern Greek language. It is not a question of the date of publication of the work in which the Greek quote appears, but the age of the quoted text itself. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:32, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Modern Greek only started being taught in monotonic in 1982. I don't know when the unofficial use started, but even the very rare pre-1923 English texts with Modern Greek in them are likely to be polytonic.
The Greek template should really be Polytonic. Greek in our texts that is monotonic is incredibly rare.--Prosfilaes (talk) 11:28, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

A cell sizing problem

I created This Morse code table, a copy of which is also available here

The problem is that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th columns are not the same width as the first, even though the column widths are declared to be identical (20px). The empty cells are now padded with {{gap|1.0em}} and also tried &nbsp, but nothing seems to work. Can someone look at it please? — Ineuw talk 20:06, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

You've only set the width of the table columns on the first "column" of the table (A–I). You'll have to set them on the rest of the table also to make them the same:
 A ‐ — ﻿ ﻿ ﻿ ﻿ J ‐ — — — ﻿ ﻿ T — ﻿ ﻿ ﻿ ﻿ ﻿ 1 ‐ — — — — ﻿ etc
Or go with a more natural structuring to the table:
 A ‐ — J ‐ — — — T — 1 ‐ — — — — etc
Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:53, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Slow to the party. I modified your sandbox but with pretty much exactly Beleg Tâl's suggestions above so nothing really to add. All of those {{gap|1.0em}}s are dispensable. AuFCL (talk) 21:06, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
Amusing to note "your" table is of "International" Morse, without strong annotation as such (in a U.S. publication); whereas Page:Handbook_for_Boys.djvu/223 is "Railway" or "American" Morse, without any indication at all of that fact either. AuFCL (talk) 21:13, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
My thanks to you both for your sharp eyes. Too many columns, and I was lost, and in a hurry to leave the abode. — Ineuw talk 01:23, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Spacing before paragraph

Hi,

how do I add spacing before the paragraph?--Juandev (talk) 23:00, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

@Juandev: This is one of those questions with a lot of answers, ranging from CSS (e.g. style="padding-top:1em;") through to specialised templates for just this purpose (e.g. {{dhr}}).

Might it be better to please point out the item/page which is giving you trouble and maybe the best solution might emerge from that context? AuFCL (talk) 23:44, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Or, if you are meaning the indent at the beginning of a paragraph, then those we do not reproduce, and is explained in the Wikisource:Style guidebillinghurst sDrewth 01:47, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Script check

Can anyone please check the second line of the verse on this page and confirm whether my proofreading of Daśabaloऽnyaś is correct or not? I have never seen juxtaposition of two scripts in the same word, so would prefer a second opinion. Hrishikes (talk) 07:12, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion seems to inhibit a MediaWiki TOC

Hi there,

I put my question at Help talk:Transclusion#Table of contents? ; thanks for your time ? --Jerome Charles Potts (talk) 03:01, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Answered there. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:23, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

move of Author:Guy Lewis Steele, Jr.

Please fix my typo and move Author:Author:Author:Guy L. Steele, Jr. back to Author:Guy Lewis Steele, Jr.. Thank you! --Neo-Jay (talk) 10:17, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

We don't and shouldn't do "Jr." anything. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:18, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
oops! Should I move to Author:George Howard Earle (1856–1928) instead? His son (III.) was Penna governor, and may some day have a place here as well, although not necessarily a published author... Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:34, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Really? But why has Author:Martin Luther King, Jr. not been moved to Author:Martin Luther King? Could you please give me a link for the policy you described?--Neo-Jay (talk) 14:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)
Why hasn't it been moved? <shrug> No one has got around to it, noticed it, or been brave enough.

Why we disambiguate with years rather than Sr/Jr/III? Because it is not a sustainable means to disambiguate. It may work well within a family line, however, it doesn't work particularly well in the broader world. Wikisource:naming conventions is based around our practical experience of naming and renaming people, and the issues faced when we had duplicated people. Prior to the naming conventions there were issues, and these have been pretty well remedied, though where the full solutions expressed at that page are not followed, we can have issues to unentangle. The disambiguation process, as used at enWP, wasn't effective here. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:44, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

en-dash between years or regular hyphen? Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:10, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Hyphen. We determined early on that simpler was easier, many cannot do en dashes. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:47, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Oh, sorry. I just moved several pages to en dash before seeing your message. I really hope this rule can be found at a naming convention page to avoid future mistakes done by new editors like me. --Neo-Jay (talk) 12:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
I tried searching using regular hyphens and it still directs users to the correct page. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:00, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Does this mean that we can use en dash for disambiguation? Using hyphen in Template:Header for author's link will generate red link if the author's page uses en dash. Anyway it will be great if the hyphen/en-dash issue can be clarified in a naming convention page. --Neo-Jay (talk) 13:21, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Not my call. I would ask , although I believe he has already spoken on the matter. Perhaps it means we can let well enough alone, but use hyphens in the future? unless uniformity is preferred and add'l moves should be made? Some technical aspects are above my pay grade. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:37, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
We all have a call on the community's consensus … I thought that we had the instruction in the pages, clearly not, so please feel welcome to add it to the naming conventions. I have just added it to Help:Disambiguation. My preference is for pages to be updated when able, as that reduces means for future confusion, and leaving redirects for the en dash pages to the hyphenated (redirects are system cheap). People usually go past the double redirects page, so if you miss fixing any of those links, not to worry too much, we will fix. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:50, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
@Neo-Jay: I will go ahead and make moves for Earle, Jr. and his kin—updating to hyphens vice en-dash and adjusting associated links. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for billinghurst's clarifying this issue at Wikisource:Style guide. I also added it to Help:Disambiguation. And also thank Londonjackbooks for your contributions! --Neo-Jay (talk) 14:15, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
Very well. Since I have noticed it, I just moved Author:Martin Luther King, Jr. to Author:Martin Luther King, and also moved Author:George Howard Earle, Jr. to Author:George Howard Earle (1856–1928) and Author:Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. to Author:Oliver Wendell Holmes (1841–1935). Thank you for your guidance.--Neo-Jay (talk) 11:05, 18 January 2016 (UTC)
We've done Author:Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., or does that need to be corrected as well? --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Missing pages in Index

? @Mpaa:? I have placed two page images in Category:User images to tip into Index:Ideas of Good and Evil, Yeats, 1903.djvu. They are actual pages 244 & 245, to be placed between current DJVU pages 253 & 254. Thanks to anyone who can assist! Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:11, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

DoneMpaa (talk) 21:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
Wonderful! Thanks again :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:30, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Could someone with appropriate permissions move O Canada (Weir) back to O Canada? I moved it for disambiguation, then decided to disambiguate differently. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Done -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:53, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

A combined Latin character begs to be identified.

On THIS PAGE, the word "collected" contains a character which I don't know where to find (although I think someone used it before elsewhere). The word is highlighted with red. — Ineuw talk 02:08, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

That's just a ligature of c and t. You should ignore it, as it signifies nothing except the printer's choice of typeface. The Wikisource community decided not to represent this feature in its reproductions, and you can read about that decision on the deprecated Template:Ligature Latin ct lowercase. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, will be ignored.— Ineuw talk 03:01, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Table spanning pages (again)

See Page:The Hambledon Men (1907).djvu/150. I feel That I have followed the instructions at Help:Page breaks#Tables across page breaks to the letter, and have done this many times before, but top row ar /150 and /151 are still missing at The Hambledon Men/John Nyren. Moondyne (talk) 02:13, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I've tweaked by moving the new table-line marker to the top of /151. Seems to be OK now. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:19, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes, thankyou. All good now. Moondyne (talk) 05:11, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

The Czar, A Tale of the Time of the First Napleon

I decided recently to validate this older project when I noticed that the chapter numbers in the validated TOC, especially the second page, scrunch into the chapter headings. After a couple of hours of searching the system on the dotted TOC page listing template, I've determined I should update the TOC with chapter-width to be greater than the default 2.5em, or is it because I use IE11? If it looks okay on a different browser, then it's just on my end.

In case you think Why bother?, chapter XXVII and chapter XXVIII both appear to read as XXVII, even on the transcluded page. This is not a good commentary of the time and effort put forth here. Opinions, please. Humbug26 (talk) 17:25, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

This defect/effect is not limited to IE11.

The issue is that the longest "chapter" title is "XXXVIII." (against "A ROSEBUD," on the second page) which requires at least a chapter-width of 4.5em to accommodate. You may wish to round this up to 5em.

If you are going to update this (and please remember, in order to keep the columns aligned, to make any change to each and every {{dotted TOC page listing}} on both content pages) then may I additionally recommend more closely matching the leader layout to the scanned page as well (i.e. by adding |chapter-width=4.5em|symbol=&hellip;|spaces=10 to each)? AuFCL (talk) 18:28, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Update done. Thank you for the exact wording to use. Much better looking TOC. Humbug26 (talk) 02:51, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Wikimedia error

I can't seem to access the first few text pages for this month's PotM at Index:Fountains Abbey.djvu. Specifically, I can't access pages 1–22 (dvju pages 27–48), and get an error message when I try. However, I don't seem to have trouble with any other pages or any other Index file, and can access those pages of the DjVu file via Commons.. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:41, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

What do you see when you click on this page: Page:The complete poetical works of Percy Bysshe Shelley, including materials never before printed in any edition of the poems.djvu/547? I get a Wikimedia server error notification page. There are a number of pages in the index this happens with, but not all. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:53, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

That link works for me. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:55, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Works for me now too... as do yours. Hunh! Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
None of your error-inducing links failed for me when I tried them earlier. However I have since had a single instance of said Wikimedia server error when saving an edit of an unrelated page. This did not recur when retried. May I venture this might be random/unrelated to any particular page? AuFCL (talk) 23:26, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Unicode for divergent semicircles

Does anyone know any unicode glyph representing the symbol on the lower part of this page? Hrishikes (talk) 06:17, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Maybe "Equivalent to" (0x224d)? Not really the right semantics I guess though. — Sam Wilson ( ) … 06:23, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Or you could use {{sfrac nobar|◡|◠}}:

Hesperian 06:28, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Was that 0x25E1 and 0x25E0 paired? i.e. {{sfrac nobar|◡|◠}} giving ?

How about overlaying in similar fashion the top (0x23DC) and bottom (0x23DD) parentheses i.e. {{sfrac nobar|⏝|⏜}} giving , or even $\asymp$ giving $\asymp$ (probably entirely equivalent to Sam's suggestion above? In context "mensa diverging" is suggestive of asymptotic, so the semantics are not so bad after all?) AuFCL (talk) 06:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Curious side-note: many (not all) $entities of the above form have a pseudo-HTML &entity; equivalent form (e.g. [itex]\pi$ ($\pi$) may also be written &pi; (π). Asymp does not obey this rule: $\asymp$ gives $\asymp$; but &asymp; gives ≈ which is much more suggestive of "equivalent to"? AuFCL (talk) 07:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Noting that &#x25E1; and &#x25E0; are characters that may not display effectively and instead give the unknown symbol character. — billinghurst sDrewth
The same can be said for most "unusual" characters that may appear in a hosted work, depending on the user's installed fonts. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:01, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
Weirdly, the characters do not display in the page, though they display in the edit summary. My reason for mentioning is that sometimes the unicode methodology is not the best outcome (implicitly meaning that sometimes we may need to use an image.)
Both will work nicely, I think. Many thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 06:34, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
http://shapecatcher.com/ is a good tool for finding unicode characters. — Sam Wilson ( ) … 23:50, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
Postscript: Both Samwilson and Hesperian's options are browser-compatible in Windows (even XP), but not in Android, without installing extra fonts. So I have gone for AuFCL's math option. Another option may be  )(  , by using the rotate template. Hrishikes (talk) 05:07, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Page numbers

A few hours ago, the display of page numbers (in the main namespace, for transcluded works) ceased to function properly. Instead of a sequence of page numbers down the left margin (beside the content of each transcluded page), I now see a single bold page number at the top left for the entire chapter / section.

Subsequent page numbers now appear in-line with the text as if they were footnotes, even appearing mid-sentence.

I've also found some pages (such as this one) where the page numbering ceases to display altogether partway down the page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 11:19, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Addendum: This does not seem to be a problem on PCs, where I can still see the page numbers displayed in the margin as I should, but only on Macs. I have run no software updates on my computer that would produce this result. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:23, 28 January 2016 (UTC)
A partial solution: removing the full-stop from all the "Img" <pagelist/> references within Index:Benois - The Russian School of Painting (1916).djvu addresses the appearance of "undefined" (a.k.a. 'disappearing') page numbers within The Russian School of Painting/Chapter I. (I believe this part was an issue touched upon—but not resolved—in this recent discussion.)

The rest you will have to address yourself but the symptoms you describe are pretty much the result of selecting "Page links within text" under the "Display Options" menu. (I'm not suggesting that is what you did do but—I believe—this state is held in a browser cookie so it is conceivable your PC commands one state and the Mac the other.) May I suggest selecting the alternate option under "Display Options" viz. "Page links beside text" and see if normal operation resumes? AuFCL (talk) 19:47, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. That seems to have sorted it, though I still have no idea how that Option was activated. Frankly, I never knew it existed. But then again, my display options at Wiktionary frequently change without my selecting anything either. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:04, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
@AuFCL: Remaining question: So, why is it that my default "Display Options" setting on a PC (using Firefox) is with page numbers to the side, but my default setting on the Mac (also using Firefox) is now page numbers in the text? I have not changed any Preferences or selections, but now on a Mac, I have to select the "Display Option" individually for EVERY new work that I view. Previously, I didn't have to do that, and I NEVER want the page numbers to display within the text.
I can't find anything under Preferences (and haven't changed anything in a long time). So (a) is there something I can do at my end? and (b) Did something happen at the MW end to cause this? --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:11, 29 January 2016 (UTC)
(extended local electricity failure here; thus v. tardy response) The fact that one device (the PC) behaves as expected and the Mac does not indicates this is not at root a Preferences or a MW software issue. I lean toward this likely being a stored cookie issue. Does clearing cookies on the Mac restore operation (and remember your choices thereafter?) Some browser/browser extensions "restore" a standard cookie set each new session; if you are using one of these options perhaps a refresh/restart of its store might help? This pretty much exhausts my ideas, short of installing custom overrides in your (as yet non-existent) special:mypage/common.js) and for that I am not a reliable source anyway. AuFCL (talk) 20:42, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Span style color

I would like to color the text on this page (I am partial to using #cf421e for red), but I can't get span style to work within a template. Can someone please apply the correct formatting? Thanks much, Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:35, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I would rather you didn't because red text = a link that has nothing at the other end. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:18, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
I hadn't thought of that... Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:13, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
There are also the {{red}} and {{color}} templates. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:06, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
While tempting, I respect Beeswaxcandle's opinion... Although I would prefer to overlook some user confusion in favor of true-to-text 'beautification,' it's not about me :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:27, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
On that sort of page it has been done previously, though on the occasions that I have done it, I have deepened the intensity of the red. Maybe we should do that to the template. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:24, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
I do dislike the current {{red}} color. I have proofread a couple of works with red titling as well (Mine and Thine and Stops of Various Quills )... but I had not considered the problematic aspect of doing so. Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:37, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
It's a similar problem with the {{blue}} template; neither of them should create colours that are too close to the normal link colors (of which there are three, I think: link, externa-link, and redlink?). — Sam Wilson ( ) … 03:51, 1 February 2016 (UTC)
Just a comment on "the current {{red}} colour"—"red" is a standard CSS colour name (#ff0000) and {{red}} is essentially shorthand for {{red|color|red}}; if you have reason to believe that the source colour is not this standard red, there are other shades with defined names such as "crimson", "orangered", "tomato", etc. (see http://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_hex.asp ) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:24, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

While I dithered about my druthers, formatting was added to the page. I will leave it for now (while removing border/background color) in the absence of policy/guidelines against the use of red to replicate original title coloring. I believe user confusion will be minimal. I wouldn't mind further arguments against doing so, however. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:29, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Guilty. Yes the background was more a demonstration than intended to be taken as final.

Despite the "redlink" name there is absolutely nothing sacred about any given link colour (and it is a simple exercise in CSS to personalise it arbitrarily.) In addition current active CSS set applies text-decoration:underline; when the mouse if "hovered" over any valid link. Up until the point where this sort of level level of deception is applied my personal view is that users should not be inappropriately coddled. AuFCL (talk) 13:04, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I agree. In my personal opinion, replicating the coloring of the original text is more important than avoiding the coloring of the Wikimedia links. Especially with regard to red, as this colour can be important in the work itself. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:24, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Duplicate pages section seemingly ignored.

Traffic_Signs_Manual_:_Chapter_3- Suggestions? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:45, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Doh. My error in forgetting a terminating slash. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:19, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Why are these chapters not subpages of Traffic Signs Manual? And even if they should not be subpages, it seems to me that there should not be a space after before colon. For example, Traffic Signs Manual : Chapter 3 should be Traffic Signs Manual: Chapter 3, etc.. --Neo-Jay (talk) 17:50, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
For reasons to do with how the hyperlinking was set up... If you want to change the overall structure feel free, but you'll have to fix up a LOT of internal links. 19:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
I don't understand. It seems that you have not given the reason why you name these works in that way, especially why you add a space before colon. Do you mean that you use those titles because you set up hyperlinking that way? Then why was hyperlinking set up that way? If you agree that there should not be a space before colon, could you please remove that space when you create new pages in the future? --Neo-Jay (talk) 20:18, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
I see that you have created Traffic Signs Manual and moved the chapters to its subpages. Many thanks. --Neo-Jay (talk) 20:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
I do not see these many hyperlinks ... I would kill the redirects.— Mpaa (talk) 20:42, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Mpaa- If you want to kill all the redirects, feel free. The new structure is more logical in any event.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:55, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Sophocles - notice removals

Could someone [ maybe ] please remove the Google notice from the front of

File:Sophocles (Classical Writers).djvu and
File:Agamemnon, Choephori, and Eumenides of Aeschylus.djvu? Thanks. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:38, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

(Trying here, since the Rebinding page doesn't seem to be monitored) --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

DoneBeleg Tâl (talk) 21:54, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
There is a rebinding page? Where? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:33, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
It's here in the Scriptorium, located next to this "Help" page, but its contents aren't actually displayed in the Scriptorium. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Request for help with a problem on Dutch Wikisource.

It's a problem with OCR-layer of the text of this book: s:nl:Index:Het_Koninkrijk_Deel_01_Voorspel_(1969).djvu

This pdf was uploaded to IA (cf. this procedure).

https://archive.org/details/L.DeJongHetKoninkrijkDerNederlandenInDeTweedeWereldoorlog19391945Deel1Voorspel

The djvu thus created was uploaded to commons again: commons:File:Het_Koninkrijk_Deel_01_Voorspel_(1969).djvu

This djvu is used in Dutch Wikisource.

The problem is this: from (djvu-)page 25 onward (page 14) there is a page missing in ocr: so the ocr is not corresponding to the scanned image, but to the next page. Further up there are more pages missing. I don't exactly know which ones. I suppose a total of 24 pages is missing: djvu page 744 is the last one with an ocr. After that there are 24 more scanned pages in the book.

Can anyone explain what's gone wrong here? And how could I solve this problem?

ps. After the moment I discovered this problem, I uploaded a new version (directly from NIOD) to IA. And again to Commons. And made this s:nl:Index:De_Jong_-_Koninkrijk_Deel_01_Voorspel_(1969).djvu. This file shows exactly the same problem. So it looks like there's something corrupt in the original pdf.

Thanks in advance, --Dick Bos (talk) 20:17, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

tl;dr: get IA to reprocess the file to generate the djvu.
@Dick Bos: It is an OCR problem at Internet Archive, and one that I saw there several years back, though not one I have seen recently. You need to ask them to reprocess the file, explaining that it seems to be inserting blank pages, (well that is what I was told back then by Hank). I had an email address for him back then for a direct fix, though suspect that things have progressed to a better alerting/reporting process. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:52, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
https://archive.org/about/faqs.php#Report_Item and the forums look to be the best way to progress matters. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:58, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your response. I mailed to IA. But to be honest, I'm not sure that the problem is with IA. See my "ps". The second upload had exactly the same mistake. For now I'll wait for the answer of IA. Greetings, --Dick Bos (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
My understanding is that it needs a tweak to the method of derivation. Differences in the PDF original that the derivation has not accounted for in their switches. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Requesting guidance on importing a .pdf file created from the original page layout software and containing formatting and images.

I recently worked with author Richard D. Jarrard to have him release his book "SCIENTIFIC METHODS" under CC SA 3.0 license. He then transmitted to me a .pdf file created from the original page layout software. This .pdf file is an original digital file containing the text, formatting, and images; it is not a scanned image. I uploaded this to Wikisource, see: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Sm_all_cc.pdf At this point the system is directing that each page be scanned and proofread. No accommodation is (automatically) being made to preserve the formatting and images. This is unfortunate because the starting point for the upload is a .pdf file in camera ready form which includes the text, formatting, and images.

Is there a way to use Wikisource as a transparent repository so the book can be captured and made available in its original and complete form?

Thanks! --Lbeaumont (talk) 00:24, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

You are correct that the proofreading system has not been designed for native digital works, and that is due to the documents not needing proofreading. If the work is needing formatting, then we should be able to quickly apply the formatting, and we can take it through the proofreading system, or it can be put straight to a page, and linked back to the PDF. Much depends on the document itself. Unless someone replies more quickly, I will have a look when I have adequate time. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
I've had some luck with using online PDF-to-HTML converters and then wikifying from there; that's what I did for The Book of Common Prayer (ECUSA). It's still a pain to wikify and then copy-paste into each page (although you may be able to do something with MS Word's wikimedia extendion) but at least then it fits into WS's system of scan-backed hosted works. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
I also have the text in html form. Is there a way to work directly from the html? Thanks --Lbeaumont (talk) 18:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)