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When a book's table of contents is not sufficient[edit]

Page:Handbook_of_the_Swatow_vernacular.djvu/15 omits Lesson V and does not note the Preface that comes before it. What do I do when transcluding it? Suzukaze-c (talk) 04:27, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

The preface can be included on the work's primary page, if you like. As for missing items in the Contents, they can be set inside <includeonly> so that the information shows up when transcluded, but not when proofreading the page. It's not an ideal solution, but for something like a table of contents, the only alternative would be to create a separate ToC and not transclude the original, which is even less satisfactory. I've set up Lesson V in the ToC, though the title for the lesson might need to be changed. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:40, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
That makes sense, thank you! Suzukaze-c (talk) 04:46, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Download from HathiTrust[edit]

Can anybody help in getting the book from https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100323430 ? It is U.S. access only. Hrishikes (talk) 13:57, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm downloading it. Do you want it uploaded to here? Is it suitable for Commons? (Hathitrust doesn't have death years for most of the authors.)--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:52, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
@Prosfilaes: Thanks. Already added by @Mahir256:. Hrishikes (talk) 01:51, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

I'm working on adding this The Basic English Bible without a scan, but it exists here hathitrust and her google books maybe it can be added in the same way? I don't have access to it as above. It is not copyright protected because it was published without a copyright notice. It would be nice to have a scan. Jpez (talk) 06:44, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

If Hathitrust and Google Books consider it copyrighted, there's no easy way to download it.--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:57, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Sections (that end on a different page)[edit]

I have been doing proofreading and also some validation on Matthew Henry's An Exposition of the Old and New Testament (1828) - Volume 1. I notice in Page:An Exposition of the Old and New Testament (1828) vol 1.djvu/54 that a section end has been put at the bottom of the page. Should this be moved to the end of the chapter, which is on a different page? The same will apply to the other 15 or so chapters that have been worked on, though I suspect I haven't put any section ends in at all on some of them. --PeterR2 (talk) 08:11, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

Section tags are used to mark off portions of a page when you don't want to transclude the whole page at once. So if you have Chapter 4 ending on a page, and Chapter 5 beginning on the same page, and want to transclude the two chapters on different pages later, there'll be a section for each part of that page, which you could call "ch4" and "ch5", or just "s1" and "s2". The details are explained in Help:Transclusion. The page you link to is all Chapter 1, so unless there's some strange reason I'm not aware of, the section tags are not needed on the page. Mudbringer (talk) 15:33, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
An Exposition of the Old and New Testament (1828)#Pentateuch has links to the different chapters, which are presumably generated by those tags? But whether the section *end* tags perform any function, I don't know; i.e. whether anything will be broken if they are not put in at all or put somewhere other than the actual end of the section? Would I be better to move that Section end tag to the end of the section, even though it's on a subsequent page? Or does it have to be on the same page as the section started on? Sorry I haven't really understood what the concept of transclusion is all about.PeterR2 (talk) 08:28, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
First of all, the short answer is, you don't have to do anything in this case with the section tags: they aren't hurting anything. Also, putting in section tags isn't really part of the proofreading or validation process, so you usually can just ignore them, unless you're the main person organizing the presentation of a particular book.
The links to the chapters point to anchors in the text. For example the link to chapter 14 is produced by this wikicode:

[[An Exposition of the Old and New Testament (1828)/Genesis#ch14|14]]

The last 14 is what you see on the finished page, everything before the | is the actual link, and the "ch14" following the # points to the anchor. The anchor itself is not produced by the section tag, rather in this case there's a tag <span id="ch14">, and the use of the id attribute in an html tag produces an anchor. The more common way to do it in wikisource, is to use an anchor template: {{anchor|c14}}. You can read about that here: {{anchor}}.
Here is a typical example of transclusion: Grimm's Household Tales, Volume 1/Little Snow-White. If you click edit on that page, you'll see almost none of the text of the story is visible, it's all transcluded from pages in the Page namespace (pages beginning with "Page:"). The tag that does the transclusion is this:

<pages index="Grimm's Household Tales, vol.1.djvu" from=289 to=297 fromsection=s2 tosection=s1 />

What this tag does is pull in the text from Page:Grimm's Household Tales, vol.1.djvu/289 to Page:Grimm's Household Tales, vol.1.djvu/297. That's what transclusion is. Now the first and last of those pages have sections that don't belong to Snow White, so they have to be left out of the transclusion. This is achieved by fromsection=s2, which means, only transclude starting from the <section begin=s2 /> tag on the first page, and tosection=s1, which means, only transclude up to the <section end=s1 /> tag on the last page. That's the most typical example, but there are variations.
One thing that's really confusing at first, is that a particular section is only a part of a single page; it never extends from one page to another. So you'll almost never need to move a section tag from one page to different one. The begin and end tags are always on the same page, although the last section on the page doesn't usually need an end tag.
I hope this was comprehensible, but please let me know if some of it still doesn't make sense. Mudbringer (talk) 15:16, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Thank you. Since I had not understood what was going on I just copied all the markup from the beginning of one chapter to the next (changing the numbers of course). But I hadn't put in any section ends at all in the chapters I have worked on, which means there are sections with no ends. I've also been validating some of the earlier pages that I didn't proofread myself, and this was when I realised there was something fishy about these "sections".PeterR2 (talk) 21:09, 23 September 2017 (UTC)

Disappearing icons between yesterday and today[edit]

I do most of my Wiki editing at this site, so I'll ask here.

Yesterday everything was fine. When I signed in today, the first thing I noticed was that the head-and-shoulders icon before my userid was missing; so was the bell for Your Alerts and the tray for Your Notices. Also missing is icon for Add Page to Watchlist. When I access Recent Changes, the icon in front of Atom is missing. More disconcerting is when I go into Index ns and Page ns. In Page ns the icons for Previous Page, Next Page, and Index are missing. The spaces where the icons should be displayed are there and I can move about but this is not right. Also in the default paragraph at the bottom starting "By saving changes ..." there are spaces after the three links, making it seem that there is something missing there as well.

Now, I have checked all Wiki sites listed on the left-hand side and all are the same, except Wikipedia This site has retained all icons, and there are no spaces after the 3 links in the "By saving changes" paragraph.. [Now same as rest of sites. Grrrr.]

This occurs when I'm logged in or out. I even logged out and shut down my computer (I turn it off every night) and started over again. No change. FYI, I use Win10 with IE11. Hey, it's what I'm used to.

Any ideas? Suggestions? What changed between yesterday and today? Humbug26 (talk) 18:00, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

@Humbug26: I haven't noticed any changes at my end. Has the problem persisted? If so, it could be a change to your skin of choice. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:27, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
I cannot talk to your specific differences. I can talk to Tuesdays which is the day that we (enWS) get the local update of the new version of Mediawiki. The announcement of the release is at WS:S each week. The Wikipedias get the update later in the same week. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:02, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
@EncycloPetey: @Billinghurst: Thanks to you both for your answers. The head-and-shoulders, bell and tray icons came back a couple of days ago. I just checked the page namespace. The arrows for next, previous and index page just showed up today; as well as the arrows in the "By saving changes ..." paragraph. Wikipedia is still missing everything. Maybe someone reported elsewhere and adjustments have been quietly made in the background or it's just a quirk for Win10 IE11. For this site, my concern has been resolved. Humbug26 (talk) 15:49, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

copyright question[edit]

I'd like to add this work The Old Testament, an American Translation but I'm not sure if it's in the public domain. It seems it's copyright was renewed but whats weird is that it's been added to archive.org by a reliable contributor. Am I missing something? Jpez (talk) 04:34, 3 October 2017 (UTC)

I agree with your assessment that the work is not PD due to the renewal. I've found that IA hosting is not a good indicator that a work is public domain, having found several works over the past couple of years that are still under copyright. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:24, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
Yeah me too, I've seen many such works, some even published in the 2000's or late 1900's. Upon further investigation I've found each book in this bible was translated by different authors and it seems the child of one of the translators has made the renewal. I'm thinking of adding this work on the basis that it was added to IA by the w:Million Book Project According to the wikipedia article "Most of the books are in the public domain, but permission has been acquired to include over 60,000 copyrighted books (roughly 53,000 in English and 7,000 in Indian languages)." Jpez (talk) 04:16, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
"Free-to-read" does not grant permission to copy or host the work elsewhere. The Project may have been granted permission to host, but that doesn't mean that hosting is transferable to other organizations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:25, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Ok I see, best leave it alone then. Jpez (talk) 04:28, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

Question at {{TOCstyle}} about transclusion[edit]

[1] Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 10:07, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

As discussed there the interaction between <pages> and HTML structures created by {{TOCstyle}} confuse the mediawiki parser (yes I know this should not happen.) In particular the pages tag always adds a new enclosing DIV tag. But this is now inside of a TABLE structure. Weirdly mediawiki tries to compensate by introducing a new and entirely irrational UL tag (as far as I can figure solely to protect the SPANs introduced by PageNumber.js and support services…)
If you are feeling confused by the above it is only because it really is that messy (and I am simplifying at that!)
Unfortunately the truth is that there probably is no solution which is likely to remain stable over the next mediawiki software update (I expect the current problems are an artefact of TIDY being phased out and cannot offer any useful prediction as to future behaviour.
All I can recommend is to try to restructure your use of <section> tags to always enclose "full" {{TOCstyle}} structures (i.e. not involving header or footer exclusions of |header=yes or |footer=yes clauses) wherever possible. 121.216.214.26 22:46, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Okay. I think I understand at a certain level. Thanks much for the input. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:31, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
Yah. {{TOCstyle}} was only ever a compromise solution assuming the mediawiki parser would be stable. Sadly it (slightly) pre-dated VisualEditor, which fundamentally undermined those very assumptions (as did so-called mobile support.) This may indicate it has passed its use-by date already. 121.216.214.26 00:11, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
Bummer. It made TOC construction a bit more bearable for me. Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:33, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
Well - being cruel and unsympathetic - you are an administrator and as such presumably have the contacts available who would update and maintain the beast in an appropriate and "official" manner? Or is your influence somewhat less than you wish to publicly admit? 121.217.31.231 01:07, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
You got me! The Reluctant Administrator. I'll think on it. Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:09, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
All one could ask for. 121.217.31.231 02:36, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
(ec) Nope. Seems I am already in contact with someone familiar with the beast, but one who is presumably unwilling to update and maintain it in an official manner. I have already asked for help above and at the appropriate talk page. Anyone with an interest is free to read the threads and tinker. No influence required; as if I would try to exert any :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:39, 21 October 2017 (UTC)

Adding a translation that I have written[edit]

Hi everyone,

I'm brand new to Wikisource and would like to make a contribution.

I'm a professional translator and I have a number of my own English translations of Charles Baudelaire poems (specifically those in "Fleurs du Mal") which are not published anywhere else. I would like to add these to Wikisource, which I believe is permitted as per the site's T&Cs.

However, I'm unsure how to create a new page for each poem; I think this would be the process as the main "Fleurs du Mal" page links to subpages.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I did familiarise myself with the upload process for images etc, but this didn't seem relevant.

Apologies for asking such a basic question!

Here's the page I've since created: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Fountains_of_blood unsigned comment by RoryMelough (talk) .

Hello. I am not well versed on the matter, but in the absence of other direction thus far, have you yet read over Wikisource:Translations guidance? Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:21, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
@RoryMelough: Very happy to have you here. We welcome original translations and this is a very valuable contribution. Please let me know if the page that Londonjackbooks linked above leaves you with questions. Also, please sign your posts with four tildes at the end, like so: ~~~~ —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:01, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
@RoryMelough: I've modified "The Fountain of Blood" according to our user-translation practices. You can use it as an example of how to proceed.
A couple of tips: 1. Ignore The Flowers of Evil (1857) and The Flowers of Evil (1861). They have nothing to do with your user translation. 2. Use Translation:The Flowers of Evil as a table of contents. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 00:38, 22 October 2017 (UTC)