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Warning Please do not post any new comments on this page. This is a discussion archive first created on 01 April 2017, although the comments contained were likely posted before and after this date.
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Bot approval requests[edit]

Repairs (and moves)[edit]

Other discussions[edit]

Author's names[edit]

Do we have a policy for how to name Author pages when the author changes name? The most common would be when a woman author marries, but I have come across a man who changed his name by adoption. I understand WP now lists articles about women by their maiden name … I am looking at Author:Emily Gosse whose WP article is w:Emily Bowes. Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 04:33, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikisource:Naming conventions We have generally taken through to the last name (married) and use redirects for the variations. It is an inexact science. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:00, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

Linguistic Report 1961[edit]

appear to be a Somali government typescript.[1] would people be amenable to uploading here, since commons is talking about crown copyright? Slowking4SvG's revenge 00:42, 2 April 2017 (UTC)

The reference is to [2], and I see no reason not to at least let that run its course.--Prosfilaes (talk) 07:07, 2 April 2017 (UTC)
There seems to be agreement that it is okay to upload it to Commons.--Prosfilaes (talk) 08:11, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Template:Dotted summary row[edit]

I was investigating to see if I could use {{Dotted summary row}}, or at least the underlying CSS classes, on a page. I think the related {{Dotted summary row no image}} is too heavyweight (the nested tables didn't work). The template is being used in a few places, but it looks like the corresponding CSS classes are not part of MediaWiki.css (if they ever were), and so the intended display is not happening. The Italian Wikisource has them (s:it:MediaWiki:Common.css). Seems like either the template should be removed, or the CSS classes added. Did they exist at one point? Carl Lindberg (talk) 00:46, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Geez, how many dotted row templates do we have? I think we can add them to the common CSS, but is it possible to merge this template into {{Dotted TOC row}} or something instead? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:08, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
I would think that we would be better to await the new implementation of styles in templates. We should be looking to avoid burgeoning common.css with occasional formatting. Every component added to common.js, and common.css adds load time. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:23, 3 April 2017 (UTC)
I think {{Dotted summary row no image}} takes the same approach as {{Dotted TOC line}}, but the TOC template is not quite as flexible. I think both assume a basic two-column table (though the TOC template has parameters for TOC-specific situations which is not my case), and any deviation (like I had) meant they were unusable. The same might be true of the Dotted summary row template, which is a completely different approach to the problem, but the CSS classes defined in it would be much more flexible as other templates could be defined which use them for other situations. If CSS is going to be allowed in templates though, then great -- that may be enough. A possible problem though is the style uses a "url()" component, to a very specific Commons image, which is stripped out by MediaWiki's security sanitizer if you try to use it inline. If the template CSS style feature will also strip that out, then we also can't use it, and it would have to go into common.css . The no-image approach may also be made more flexible... the code is dense enough I didn't want to spend time figuring out if it was possible. Carl Lindberg (talk) 15:21, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

Tech News: 2017-14[edit]

17:53, 3 April 2017 (UTC)

New Wiki Project page[edit]

I have created a new Wiki Project page

It is a copy of WS:EB1911 text with modifications -- PBS (talk) 09:51, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

300,000 pages now validated[edit]

At 21:22 on 5 April, 2017 @AnotherAnonymous: set Page:Essays of Francis Bacon 1908 Scott.djvu/125 to validated, which was the 300,000th page to be validated. Interestingly, I made a similar announcement on 4 April, 2016 for the 250,000th page. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:40, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Start of the 2017 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees elections[edit]

Please accept our apologies for cross-posting this message. This message is available for translation on Meta-Wiki.

Wikimedia-logo black.svg

On behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee, I am pleased to announce that self-nominations are being accepted for the 2017 Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees Elections.

The Board of Trustees (Board) is the decision-making body that is ultimately responsible for the long-term sustainability of the Wikimedia Foundation, so we value wide input into its selection. More information about this role can be found on Meta-Wiki. Please read the letter from the Board of Trustees calling for candidates.

The candidacy submission phase will last from April 7 (00:00 UTC) to April 20 (23:59 UTC).

We will also be accepting questions to ask the candidates from April 7 to April 20. You can submit your questions on Meta-Wiki.

Once the questions submission period has ended on April 20, the Elections Committee will then collate the questions for the candidates to respond to beginning on April 21.

The goal of this process is to fill the three community-selected seats on the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees. The election results will be used by the Board itself to select its new members.

The full schedule for the Board elections is as follows. All dates are inclusive, that is, from the beginning of the first day (UTC) to the end of the last.

  • April 7 (00:00 UTC) – April 20 (23:59 UTC) – Board nominations
  • April 7 – April 20 – Board candidates questions submission period
  • April 21 – April 30 – Board candidates answer questions
  • May 1 – May 14 – Board voting period
  • May 15–19 – Board vote checking
  • May 20 – Board result announcement goal

In addition to the Board elections, we will also soon be holding elections for the following roles:

  • Funds Dissemination Committee (FDC)
    • There are five positions being filled. More information about this election will be available on Meta-Wiki.
  • Funds Dissemination Committee Ombudsperson (Ombuds)
    • One position is being filled. More information about this election will be available on Meta-Wiki.

Please note that this year the Board of Trustees elections will be held before the FDC and Ombuds elections. Candidates who are not elected to the Board are explicitly permitted and encouraged to submit themselves as candidates to the FDC or Ombuds positions after the results of the Board elections are announced.

More information on this year's elections can be found on Meta-Wiki. Any questions related to the election can be posted on the election talk page on Meta-Wiki, or sent to the election committee's mailing list, board-elections(at)

On behalf of the Election Committee,
Katie Chan, Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee
Joe Sutherland, Community Advocate, Wikimedia Foundation

Posted by MediaWiki message delivery on behalf of the Wikimedia Foundation Elections Committee, 03:37, 7 April 2017 (UTC) • Please help translate to your languageGet help

Yankee in Canada (1866) Thoreau[edit]

Surely there is no need to disambiguate this title. Suggest moving to A Yankee in Canada or A Yankee in Canada, with Anti-Slavery and Reform Papers. BethNaught (talk) 07:07, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

I would agree with you. I will defer to someone with greater knowledge which is preferable. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:38, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
It will need to be disambiguated, because this volume exists in several copies, including copies in two multi-volume collections of Thoreau's writings that people have begun transcribing here. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:26, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for clarifying. BethNaught (talk) 16:31, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Am I correct to understand this is a specific edition of a specific anthology which nearly shares the name with one of its constituent parts unless we rename it to A Yankee in Canada, with Anti-Slavery and Reform Papers, and that the specific anthology arrangement with its title may have multiple editions? Including as part of a yet larger anthology? Or is it just the constituent parts are included in a larger anthology? Excursions (1863) Thoreau may have the same issue also.
To what degree do we preemptively disambiguate things? I can see that it is a problem to move texts if there are external web links to internal chapters or what have you. On the other hand it sounds very difficult to do 'right', certainly a great deal of our main namespace isn't there. Prosody (talk) 17:29, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
The edition in question is a specific edition of a collection of papers, originally published individually, the "Yankee in Canada" then collected and published, then this edition published as a book with additional papers, which subsequently was published at least three more times as the same collected volume in a larger collected set.
Yes, preëmptive disambiguation is a Good Thing, and yes, it is often difficult to get right without doing research. I've spent the better part of the past two days doing research on published editions of Seneca's tragedies (and other works with the same titles) just to be sure I'm disambiguating them correctly. I did similar research for the tragedies and comedies from ancient Greece. These works were a bit more challenging because the titles are short (usually naming a single character or group), and were often recycled or re-interpreted by later Roman and French dramatists, so the titles pop up over and over. "A Yankee in Canada" is less likely to have additional writers using the same title, but for a popular writer like Thoreau, there will almost certainly be multiple editions of his works. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:12, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Tech News: 2017-15[edit]

18:34, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

Additional snippets[edit]

mw:Wikistats 2.0 Design Project/RequestforFeedback/Round2

  • Preparing to deploy sister wiki search results display - posted notice at multiple wiki's village pumps (phabricator:T162064#3161941)

Read-only mode for 20 to 30 minutes on 19 April and 3 May[edit]

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:34, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Searchability of Indexes not-proofread[edit]

According to Category:Index Not-Proofread, we currently have about 6500 Indexes needing to be proofread. How might someone who comes along wanting to proofread a work on gardening, for example, access a list of Indexes available needing to be proofread on that particular subject? Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:06, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

OCR text is not searchable. But if the word gardening is present in the index name or any created page of that index, that would be searchable, e.g. Index:Australian enquiry book of household and general information.djvu, Index:Gardening for Ladies and Companion to the Flower-Garden.djvu, Index:Boots and Saddles.djvu. All such works would not be on gardening; may only contain a passing reference to the topic; this will need to be manually checked. Hrishikes (talk) 14:22, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Would it be possible to add top-level categories to Indexes, such as can be found at Library of Congress Classification? Or would this be opening up a can of worms? Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:33, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Some sort of categorisation is desirable, as given in Portal:Index. But it would be a huge work. Hrishikes (talk) 14:46, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
if you had an OCLC number, you could import the categories from library of congress. (although they have problems as well). Slowking4SvG's revenge 17:08, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
  • Pictogram voting comment.svg Comment categorising index pages is going to be a lot of work for temporary benefit. [Noting that wee are pretty garbage at categorising main namespace works for presentation and they have long term benefit for readers (which are our bulk).] How about we look to define specifically you would be looking to achieve (what output might you be expecting?), ie. from index ns: works, looking to show works that are not proofread by an author? by a keyword? by a year of publication? We have numerous means to isolate and to identify Index: ns, so it is the innovation of getting something prepared, and then getting potential editors to find what we have prepared. Do we even know the numbers around potential transcribers, or how to interest them in the next steps? — billinghurst sDrewth 04:46, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Actually, for finding a suitable work to proofread, index categorisation is not essential. An editor would not give a lot of time and labour for any random work. He/she will first find out the name of a suitable work by launching a general search in Google etc., or proceed from a pre-acquired knowledge. Then the editor will see whether it is available here, and if available, whether proofread or otherwise. If not available, then the editor can add it here. This is the general procedure by which I work, and it is likely that, other editors also choose the work first and then find it here or add it and start proofreading. Index category is helpful and desirable, but not essential. Hrishikes (talk) 05:43, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Forgive my unstructured thought process... Wikipedia's Citation Hunt tool came to mind, and prompted my question. I too, generally speaking, search for works with "pre-acquired knowledge", but I presume it is not the same for all. The end I am looking at is to chip away at the 6500 works needing to be proofread. I could work on making sure that project links are available on author pages for those works; that would take care of one aspect...
Question: How does one separate (list) categories using this search engine? For example, for Project:Wikisource, I type in "Political science" in Categories, and a result appears. But if I type in "Index Not-Proofread, Political science" or "Index Not-Proofread; Political science", no results show. How can multiple cats be listed to generate results? Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:53, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Londonjackbooks: For Petscan: write one category, click enter, write another category. If you want the work to be present in both categories, choose "Subset". If you want works of either category, choose "Union". Hrishikes (talk) 12:13, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Great. Thanks. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:30, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
@Londonjackbooks: We are going to need a little bit of curation, it comes down to how much, and where. A number of ways to proceed. 1) have a wikiproject where you can load and list works; 2) utilise the keyword feature of Special:IndexPages to present a subset of works; 3) other pre-prepared searches that present a set of works, be it through petscan, or an internally constructed set of criteria; 4) We look to better populate our works at Wikidata, and run searches and categorisation from there to point at our works here. It is my belief that the best way to get people to find works, especially theme-based is a well-constructed WikipProject especially as that is something that we can advertise/promote/push. The DNB project worked as it was coordinated and promoted. Our use of PotM has clearly been one of our most successful, again coordinated and promoted.

And an aside about good petscan searches, note that you can use the interwiki of petscan: with your search number. Check my little list on my user page. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:35, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Would you be averse to my adding top-level categories—derived from the list at Library of Congress Classification—to Index pages? Would it even be possible to add a parameter (if that's the right word) to the Index template where a user can select a Category from a drop-down list of top-level LC subjects (there are 'only' 20)? That way, when an Index is created, Users can opt to add Category info as they do other template parameters (and this way, Categories entered would be uniform and case-correct).
I have created a sandbox with a table that links to Petscan searches for specific categories based on LC Classification. "Political Science" is the only subject/category that generates a result at the moment. As far as a WikiProject is concerned, it could consist in part of such a table linking to works by category as used in my sandbox. Please let me know if any of this is desirable. I am not averse to adding [single, top-level] Categories to 6500 Indexes if the community is not against my doing so. Of course, others may have better insight into the realistic aspect of doing so. My insight into/knowledge about such things is often limited. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:01, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
If we wanted to categorize Index pages, we could modify MediaWiki:Proofreadpage index template to automatically include categories based on their 'main subject' (P921) and 'genre' (P136) properties on Wikidata (or any others that are desired). For example, Gardening for Ladies and Companion to the Flower-Garden (d:Q29354298) has subject 'gardening' and this could be turned into Category:Works about about gardening that require proofreading or similar. These categories would then of course need to be added to parent categories, which would be a bit of a pain if not done by bot. Sam Wilson 03:47, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Instead of using categories (serves completed works better), can we not use the portal system, especially as this solution has been hiding in plain sight on the main page? If there are no objections, I could pick away at adding the "To Be Proofread" and the "To Be Validated" works to applicable portals, using the {{small scan link}} (Transcription project) to indicate which are available to be worked on. @Londonjackbooks: For your example The American Democrat: does Portal:Political theory work? Humbug26 (talk) 17:53, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
@Humbug26: Would your idea not take more manual maintenance and oversight? If I understand correctly, one would manually add (from the existing 6500) a to-be-proofread work to a list at a Portal; once said work is proofread, it would need to be manually taken off the to-be-proofread list at the Portal. When what I was proposing, once said work is fully proofread, the work would automatically be removed from to-be-proofread PetScan search results, as that category would automatically disappear once the work is promoted to to-be-validated (i.e., less manual work/oversight). As for the Political theory portal recommendation, my thinking only went so far as to the use of categories (and I thought to keep those categories top-level), so unless some other system is adopted than one similar to what I have proposed, I don't have an answer for you at this moment. Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:42, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

The last week of the 1st cycle of Wikimedia strategy conversation[edit]

Hi, I'm Szymon, a MetaWiki Strategy Coordinator. 3 weeks ago, we invited you to join a broad discussion about Wikimedia's future role in the world. The discussion is divided into 3 cycles, and the first one ends on April, 15. So far, Wikimedians have been discussing mainly about technological improvements, multilingual support, friendly environment, cooperation with other organizations and networks.

I'm pinging a few recently active admins. I hope you'll help me with passing along the news, maybe even join the discussion. @Beeswaxcandle, @EncycloPetey, @Ineuw, @Beleg Tâl, @Charles Matthews:.

Looking forward to your input. Thank you in advance! SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 00:38, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

I have found the question "What role do we want to play in the world in 2030?" too remote. I can see the prospects for integration between Wikimedia sites over the next, say, five years very interesting. Charles Matthews (talk) 04:18, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
this is a prompt for the brainstorming which is more fun, than the five year implementation plan and resource loading. but yeah, if you are action-oriented, it is all a little woolly headed. and some folks say "execution beats strategy every day". Slowking4SvG's revenge 13:53, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
Well, I added my overall take to Wikisource talk:Wikimedia Strategy 2017. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:33, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
that’s good. now is the time to get your feedback in while they are listening. they have been responsive to our wish lists. Slowking4SvG's revenge 14:26, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Five Black Lives[edit]

I've been trying to find a scan of Five Black Lives: the autobiographies of Venture Smith, James Mars, William Grimes, the Rev. G. W. Offley, James L. Smith (1855), which includes the second edition of Life of William Grimes, the Runaway Slave, the first narrative of an American ex-slave.

However, I cannot find it at Hathi Trust or the Internet Archive, and the Google Books copy [12] seems to think it's still under copyright (!) so BUB won't touch it.

Can someone find a copy? Or does someone have contact with the person who runs the Book Uploader Bot? This work can't possibly still be under copyright. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:34, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Are you sure about the copyright date? I see Google's pub date states 1855, but info from a Worldcat search (scroll toward end of results page) details that of the five narratives, four of them are dated after 1855: Wm. Grimes' narrative is dated 1855, but the other narratives are dated (chronologically) 1860, 1864, 1881 & 1897. I tried used book search for 1855 copies, as well as ebay... but no luck. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:01, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
I know for certain only the date for the William Grimes autobiography edition. That date is given at the UNC library copy of the first edition. With a match at google.books, I assume that date is correct, but do not know the publication history and can't say for the other included works or for the collection.
If we can find any copy of William Grimes' autobiography, that would be a forward step. We are sorely lacking at Wikisource when it comes to 19th-century works by African-American authors. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:09, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
I'll keep looking for Grimes' autobiography... I found more confirmation that it is unlikely that Five Black Lives -- as a collection -- was published in 1855. It is listed as a 1st edition being published by Wesleyan University Press, [1971] in several search results. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:12, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

Individual narratives[edit]

  1. Venture Smith @ Hathi trust
  2. James Mars @ Hathi trust
  3. G. W. Offley @ Hathi trust
  4. James L. Smith @ IA

Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:31, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

The story of w:Charles Ball is present here, however: Index:Fifty Years in Chains, or the Life of an American Slave.djvu. The story of Grimes is available for online reading: Hrishikes (talk) 19:48, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
the compilation appears to be copyright 1971 [13] ; OCLC 2680663 - we could organize a project to start the originals, would make a good effort for black history month. Slowking4SvG's revenge 23:14, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
That's a good idea, but collecting African-American biographies might be a bigger collaboration than we could accomplish in a single month. It might even make for a suitable community collaboration to follow on sometime after Thoreau. I envision Thoreau continuing as our Community Collaboration until the end of July (when we celebrate his 200th birthday), then following with a shorter collaboration for someone from England (I have a person in mind). But then starting around December, or early next year, we then could collect African-American biographies. It would be great timing too, since this February will be the 200th birthday of Frederick Douglass. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:36, 16 April 2017 (UTC)

Wikimania 2017 in Montréal[edit]

Wikimania 2017

This year, Wikimania is happening in Montréal! You want to give us a hand? We need YOU as a volunteer!

Contact Antoine2711 at

Come make a difference with a great team of passionate Wiki people.

--Antoine2711 (talk) 18:24, 15 April 2017 (UTC)