Wikisource:Scriptorium/Help/Archives/2016

Please do not post any new comments on this page. This is a discussion archive first created in 2016, although the comments contained were likely posted before and after this date. See current discussion or the archives index.

Laws and Acts of the Parliament of Scotland

I found this: - https://archive.org/details/lawsactsofparlia00scot

Ia-Upload won't allow upload of it on Commons as it's fairly big, so I was wondering if someone here had the djvu skills to get uploaded onto commons in a sensible manner.

There are some other works mentioned here- http://www.rps.ac.uk/static/editorialintro.html but I couldn't find scans of them, It's a shame the site concerned being academic isn't under CC-BY-SA:( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:22, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

Update- Yannf was kind enough to upload this, but in checking the pagelist I found some missing pages as detailed, any takers for inserting blank placeholders?.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:32, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

The relevant Index being - Index:The Laws and Acts of Parliament of Scotland.djvuShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I'll have a go at it. Jpez (talk) 05:37, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I've added the placeholders, page numbering has to be redone though. Jpez (talk) 07:19, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Next task, tracking down the missing pages, St Andrews University maybe (given they did a major projects on Scottish Statutes a couple of years ago)?. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:24, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Mrs Beeton (1907) Bulk move/merge request.

• [[Index:Mrs. Beeton's Book of Household Management (Part 1).djvu]] contains pages 1-1267
• [[Index:Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management (Part 2).djvu]] contains page 1268, onward

It would be appreciated if someone with the relevant script or AWB did a bulk move and merge to Index:Mrs Beeton's Book of Household Management.djvu which contains the entire work. Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:31, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Bot requests belong where? Oh ... Wikisource:Bot requests. I am presuming that we have evidence that it is the same edition for both parts. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:51, 1 January 2016 (UTC) — billinghurst sDrewth

We do. That's why I got the combined version. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:33, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

Help needed with the named ref tag

I searched Mediawiki manpages for information, but unfortunately it lacks the info on how to refer to a named tag that extends to more than two pages

Page 1 <ref name="ABC"></ref>
Page 2 <ref follow="ABC"></ref>
Page 3 ???

Thanks in advance. — Ineuw talk 02:59, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I think that you just repeat "follow=" on page 3 as you did for page 2, but I can't seem to locate right now one of the examples where I've had to deal with this before. . . --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:03, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. It is so. I checked the transclusion and it joins correctly.— Ineuw talk 03:14, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Good. If something should go strangely, then I think you can also do this:

Page 1 <ref name="ABC"></ref>

Page 2 <ref follow="ABC" name="XYZ"></ref>

Page 3 <ref follow="XYZ"></ref>

But I still haven't been able to find a definitive statement. --EncycloPetey (talk) 03:25, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, first is "name" and anything subsequent are all "follow=...", as every subsequent reference gets treated the same, and will be concatenated to the primary "name=..." tag. The code that ThomasV did basically means that all "follow" components don't have the leading visual marker for a ref, and allows concatenation and inserts a space between concatenations (as I remember from the code review back in the dark ages). — billinghurst sDrewth 05:47, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Noting that ThomasV did the follow tag specifically for the Wikisources (after much hassle getting that code reviewed) and I believe that we hold the primary help text at Help:Footnotes and endnotes and we probably should put that to Mediawiki: — billinghurst sDrewth 07:02, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

I really would not bother as mw:Extension:Cite#Merging_two_texts_into_a_single_reference pretty much covers it at least as well. AuFCL (talk) 07:08, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

My concern was whether they are concatenated in page order? — Ineuw talk 07:18, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes they are concatenated in order that they are specified, and here that comes from the <pages> command. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:19, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

To save you following the link provided the relevant text is A typical wikisource issue is, how to merge into one reference texts split into different pages. This can be done using a <ref name="name"> tag for the first part of the reference, and tagging the following parts into different pages with a tag <ref follow="name">. Now maybe it could be more explicitly worded regarding the 2+ pages usage case but to my eyes that indicates choice of "name" or "follow" is an either/or-but-presumably-not-both one? AuFCL (talk) 07:24, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. — Ineuw talk 09:43, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Index page no longer correct

The index page for Index:Tacitus Histories Fyfe (1912) Vol1.djvu used to display correctly, but now the page sequence is all jumbled. It seems to be displaying the page sections in reverse order! --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:19, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Temporarily fixed. The actual culprit is this edit and perhaps you had best raise the matter with the author thereof? AuFCL (talk) 03:06, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Additional: Index:Tacitus Histories Fyfe (1912) Vol2.djvu was similarly affected and I have applied an even simpler form of the palliative there. AuFCL (talk) 03:11, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks! I knew the second volume's index page was also suffering, and suspected that finding one solution would solve both. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:28, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Darn it! And I thought I was onto something but didn't consider that type of scenario until seeing it in practice. Reverted.

will continue to look for a "better" index: page template layout on test2.wikipedia.org however if anybody is interested. -- George Orwell III (talk) 13:02, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Need a way to make TOC page list to flow around an image

Page:On Our Selection.djvu/12. Any ideas? Moondyne (talk) 03:27, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

The TOC templates rely on tables, which won't be able to flow in this way. You will probably need to build the table explicitly without relying on TOC templates, or just put the image outside the TOC (float it before the TOC begins) and don't worry about the margins. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:42, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

You could create an extra column for the image, and the span columns below the image if you really think it is worth the effort. That would presumably mean ditching the dashed ToC template. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:07, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the help. Moondyne (talk) 05:06, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Verse numbering

Hi can someone please advise me how to go about verse numbering here. Page:The Holy Bible Vol 1 (Thomson).djvu/11 and also here Page:The Iliad of Homer (Butler).djvu/22. Thanks for any help. Jpez (talk) 07:57, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Well there is {{pline}}. Does it matter about the font size and colour being distinct from normal text, or is that an advantage to you? AuFCL (talk) 08:24, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @AuFCL: I just tested pline and it looks perfect for the Iliad. For the bible there is a problem, for example

IIN the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. 2And the earth was invisible and unfurnished and there was darkness over this abyss;

The verse numbers overlap each other if they are on the same line. If only the first verse number to come up in each line would be displayed it will be perfect. Thanks. Jpez (talk) 08:52, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Good point. Well that puts paid to my alternate suggestions which were either {{float left}} or {{overfloat left}}—for much the same reasons. AuFCL (talk) 09:48, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

For translations of the Bible we're using {{verse}}. This contains an anchor for Chapter and Verse, so that we can directly link to the verses. For the Iliad {{pline}} is the best option. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:06, 7 January 2016 (UTC)

Subject of poem

Does anyone know who the subject of this poem is? Thank you, Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:35, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

I am going to hazard Archpriest Bartolomeo Aragazzi. My Italian is not much chop but w:it:Monumento funebre di Bartolomeo Aragazzi might be useful? AuFCL (talk) 21:06, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

"...eminent for his vanity as for his poetry and learning"—having commissioned Donatello and Michelozzo to construct his monument twelve years before his death... Although Coates does not necessarily characterize him as vain, she writes that he sought "lasting fame"... There are "forms angelic" that are part of the monument. Close as I have yet come. Wish I could tie her "quotation" (re: lordly palaces, etc.) with corresponding text. Thanks for looking into it! I'll look into it closer. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:43, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

Greek language template?

I am looking for a "missing language" template like ^{(Greek characters)}?—unsigned comment by Ineuw (talk) 18:40, 4 January 2016‎ (UTC).

You can use {{language characters}} ^{(Your own language characters)}— Mpaa (talk) 18:50, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

{{Greek missing}} is the template and it is based on the template that Mpaa mentions, and others can be created to meet the need of other languages. We created the master template to try and align of these help templates and categorisation. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:47, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

This template is sufficient. Thanks — Ineuw talk 01:23, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Just a question: What should a proofreader put if she doesn't know what language is missing? Is there a WTF missing template? Zoeannl (talk) 04:30, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

I use {{symbol missing}} for characters I either don't recognise or know how to produce. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:40, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Side notes

I have sidenotes in A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin. I find sidenotes problematic—ungainly and awkward—at present. I would be happy to transcribe these as refs. Any updates on sidenotes? Any comments or alternatives? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 04:36, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Replied at User talk:Zoeannl. Moondyne (talk) 12:49, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Images

I quite like adding images—the help pages are pretty good— but not so sure of the final result. So questions:

1. I am assuming that any efforts are welcome as someone following can touch up or replace an image if they want to make better. Yes?
   1. Is there a way to dictate greyscale as somehow my ultra-basic editing (to create white background) seems to colour the result e.g. on Page:A Key to Uncle Tom's Cabin (1853).djvu/144
2. I am using the {{FIS}} template as I find it less intimidating and much easier to understand especially with the commentary from the PS PR guide. But it says DRAFT. Can I use it indiscriminately? I am technically indescriminate; I do not understand any ramifications of its use. If Draft just means that we're still tweeking things, I can cope with that. I am hoping that I am learning to use a template with a FUTURE. Is FIS the future?
   1. Evidence as to Man's Place in Nature p. 104 has a caption spanning 2 pages. How to cope with this? (using FIS?)
3. These are two efforts: p. 2 and p. 9. Are they good enough?
   1. Why is the caption not centered on p. 2?
   2. First assumption—We always proofread captions so they are searchable. Yes?
   3. Second assumption (from observation)—We always rotate images that are sideways in a book. Yes?
   4. Third assumption—I am following [www.pgdp.org Distributed Proofreaders] practises as much as possible because they are obviously a lot more successful at proofreading; the assumption being their experience is worth transferring to facilitate proofreading. DP moves images to between paragraphs or to the top or bottom of the page. I use this rule if I can, where there are suitable paragraph returns available. As a rule, I retain hard returns at the end of the lines to facilitate proofreading, also DP practise; I am assuming these can be removed as the last stage of Validation. With a script? I remove them to see how the page would look with the text wrapping around the image.
4. I timourously ask for suggestions for image processing improvement at the risk of feeling totally overwhelmed by technicalities (it doesn't take much). At the moment I am using a web based editor on my Chromebook which I acknowledge isn't good. I have used image editing programs before but until I get another working computer, I am stuck with web-based options. But a recommendation of programs, downloaded or web-based would be followed with interest. And guidelines for minimum standards? I fully expect you haven't realised how necessary these are until you see how basic my efforts are…

Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 06:47, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Note about the "color" effects: I use basic image software as well. To eliminate color, you want to drag the saturation down to zero. Doing so will eliminate any color, and render the image entirely in shades of white, grey, and black. If your software is sophisticated enough, you can then adjust the contrast and brightness to ensure the background is white without losing image information. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:53, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Missing the djvu pages

This book which I just uploaded is missing the djvu pages, but has the text layer. What am I missing? — Ineuw talk 07:32, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

Done, see now. Hrishikes (talk) 07:42, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

@Hrishikes: Thanks. I completely forgot about the resolution setting. This is was a fluid issue, like so many others in Wikisource. Previously, (years ago), I was told to set it to either 999 or 1001, which worked. Now, even when it's blank, the page also doesn't appear unless I click on edit 2-3 times. I will post here as I am playing with the settings because some setting got to work normally. — Ineuw talk 20:01, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

@Ineuw: I am not encountering the issue. The pages appear fine in my browser. Perhaps you need to purge? Hrishikes (talk) 01:32, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, the last time I looked it was OK. This only happened after I created the page. I played with several of the old resolution values and they didn't work, but after blanking all values as before, it seems to work for now. I will post again if I am running into problem. — Ineuw talk 02:13, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

header for The Master Thief" from the Red Book of fairy tales. cannot figure out how to add the dumb header? :}

This is the header for The Master Thief which I added to the Red Book of fairy tales. How in the heck do I get it into the page. I cannot find out how, just what a header is. thanks much Feralblue (talk) 21:22, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

| title      = "The Master Thief"
| author     =  P. C. Asbjornsen
| translator = Andrew Lang
| section    = "The Master Thief" tale
| previous   = "“The Black Thief Ana Knight of The Glen"
| next       = "Brother and Sister"
| year       =  1890
| notes      = from the Gutenberg.org 
| categories = Fairy Tales
| portal     = www.gutenberg.org ›

I have fixed the page. Please note that you need to complete red links in the page, by copying the missing text there.— Mpaa (talk) 21:49, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Greek double-check request

Five pages of this work contain Greek text. Just wondering if someone would like to double-check my proofreading to make sure I have used correct symbols. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:03, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Done. There were a couple of instances of incorrect breathing (ἀ vs. ἁ) and one place where you capitalized θ, but it was well done. I just want to add that I changed the template from {{Greek}} to {{Polytonic}}, as it is my understanding that the latter is preferred when polytonic spelling is used (as in this case). Furthermore, I assumed that the rest of the page was proofread already and so marked the page as proofread. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:31, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks much! And yes, you assumed correctly with regard to being proofread. Thanks for correcting the templates. I would not know how to spot the difference. Appreciated, Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

The difference is mostly to do with placement of accents - in polytonic Greek, most words have exactly one accent, and every word starting with a vowel also has a breathing indicator on that vowel. There is an example at w:Greek diacritics#Example. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:56, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. Londonjackbooks (talk) 15:42, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

I'm unclear; monotonic Greek is a modern thing, but Ancient Greek historically didn't use accents. It also, however, didn't use lowercase. All the Greek we see, except for archaeological books, are going to be polytonic, no?--Prosfilaes (talk) 00:21, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

No. Modern texts containing words or passages from Modern Greek will be in the modern script and will be monotonic. However, modern texts containing words or passages of Ancient Greek text will be polytonic, using the system of breathing marks, varying accents, etc. which are not found in the Modern Greek language. It is not a question of the date of publication of the work in which the Greek quote appears, but the age of the quoted text itself. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:32, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Modern Greek only started being taught in monotonic in 1982. I don't know when the unofficial use started, but even the very rare pre-1923 English texts with Modern Greek in them are likely to be polytonic.

The Greek template should really be Polytonic. Greek in our texts that is monotonic is incredibly rare.--Prosfilaes (talk) 11:28, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

A cell sizing problem

I created This Morse code table, a copy of which is also available here

The problem is that the 2nd, 3rd and 4th columns are not the same width as the first, even though the column widths are declared to be identical (20px). The empty cells are now padded with {{gap|1.0em}} and also tried &nbsp, but nothing seems to work. Can someone look at it please? — Ineuw talk 20:06, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

You've only set the width of the table columns on the first "column" of the table (A–I). You'll have to set them on the rest of the table also to make them the same:

A	‐	—					J	‐	—	—	—			T	—						1	‐	—	—	—	—
etc

Or go with a more natural structuring to the table:

A ‐ —	J ‐ — — —	T —	1 ‐ — — — —
etc

—Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:53, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Slow to the party. I modified your sandbox but with pretty much exactly Beleg Tâl's suggestions above so nothing really to add. All of those {{gap|1.0em}}s are dispensable. AuFCL (talk) 21:06, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Amusing to note "your" table is of "International" Morse, without strong annotation as such (in a U.S. publication); whereas Page:Handbook_for_Boys.djvu/223 is "Railway" or "American" Morse, without any indication at all of that fact either. AuFCL (talk) 21:13, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

My thanks to you both for your sharp eyes. Too many columns, and I was lost, and in a hurry to leave the abode. — Ineuw talk 01:23, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Spacing before paragraph

Hi,

how do I add spacing before the paragraph?--Juandev (talk) 23:00, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

@Juandev: This is one of those questions with a lot of answers, ranging from CSS (e.g. style="padding-top:1em;") through to specialised templates for just this purpose (e.g. {{dhr}}).

Might it be better to please point out the item/page which is giving you trouble and maybe the best solution might emerge from that context? AuFCL (talk) 23:44, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Or, if you are meaning the indent at the beginning of a paragraph, then those we do not reproduce, and is explained in the Wikisource:Style guide — billinghurst sDrewth 01:47, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Script check

Can anyone please check the second line of the verse on this page and confirm whether my proofreading of Daśabaloऽnyaś is correct or not? I have never seen juxtaposition of two scripts in the same word, so would prefer a second opinion. Hrishikes (talk) 07:12, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion seems to inhibit a MediaWiki TOC

Hi there,

I put my question at Help talk:Transclusion#Table of contents? ; thanks for your time ? --Jerome Charles Potts (talk) 03:01, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Answered there. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:23, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

move of Author:Guy Lewis Steele, Jr.

Please fix my typo and move Author:Author:Author:Guy L. Steele, Jr. back to Author:Guy Lewis Steele, Jr.. Thank you! --Neo-Jay (talk) 10:17, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

We don't and shouldn't do "Jr." anything. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:18, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

oops! Should I move to Author:George Howard Earle (1856–1928) instead? His son (III.) was Penna governor, and may some day have a place here as well, although not necessarily a published author... Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:34, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Really? But why has Author:Martin Luther King, Jr. not been moved to Author:Martin Luther King? Could you please give me a link for the policy you described?--Neo-Jay (talk) 14:36, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Why hasn't it been moved? <shrug> No one has got around to it, noticed it, or been brave enough.

Why we disambiguate with years rather than Sr/Jr/III? Because it is not a sustainable means to disambiguate. It may work well within a family line, however, it doesn't work particularly well in the broader world. Wikisource:naming conventions is based around our practical experience of naming and renaming people, and the issues faced when we had duplicated people. Prior to the naming conventions there were issues, and these have been pretty well remedied, though where the full solutions expressed at that page are not followed, we can have issues to unentangle. The disambiguation process, as used at enWP, wasn't effective here. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:44, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

en-dash between years or regular hyphen? Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:10, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

@Londonjackbooks: Hyphen. We determined early on that simpler was easier, many cannot do en dashes. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:47, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Oh, sorry. I just moved several pages to en dash before seeing your message. I really hope this rule can be found at a naming convention page to avoid future mistakes done by new editors like me. --Neo-Jay (talk) 12:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

I tried searching using regular hyphens and it still directs users to the correct page. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:00, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

@Londonjackbooks: Does this mean that we can use en dash for disambiguation? Using hyphen in Template:Header for author's link will generate red link if the author's page uses en dash. Anyway it will be great if the hyphen/en-dash issue can be clarified in a naming convention page. --Neo-Jay (talk) 13:21, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Not my call. I would ask @Billinghurst:, although I believe he has already spoken on the matter. Perhaps it means we can let well enough alone, but use hyphens in the future? unless uniformity is preferred and add'l moves should be made? Some technical aspects are above my pay grade. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:37, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

We all have a call on the community's consensus … I thought that we had the instruction in the pages, clearly not, so please feel welcome to add it to the naming conventions. I have just added it to Help:Disambiguation. My preference is for pages to be updated when able, as that reduces means for future confusion, and leaving redirects for the en dash pages to the hyphenated (redirects are system cheap). People usually go past the double redirects page, so if you miss fixing any of those links, not to worry too much, we will fix. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:50, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

@Neo-Jay: I will go ahead and make moves for Earle, Jr. and his kin—updating to hyphens vice en-dash and adjusting associated links. Londonjackbooks (talk) 13:56, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for billinghurst's clarifying this issue at Wikisource:Style guide. I also added it to Help:Disambiguation. And also thank Londonjackbooks for your contributions! --Neo-Jay (talk) 14:15, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Very well. Since I have noticed it, I just moved Author:Martin Luther King, Jr. to Author:Martin Luther King, and also moved Author:George Howard Earle, Jr. to Author:George Howard Earle (1856–1928) and Author:Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. to Author:Oliver Wendell Holmes (1841–1935). Thank you for your guidance.--Neo-Jay (talk) 11:05, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

We've done Author:Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., or does that need to be corrected as well? --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:14, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

Missing pages in Index

@George Orwell III:? @Mpaa:? I have placed two page images in Category:User images to tip into Index:Ideas of Good and Evil, Yeats, 1903.djvu. They are actual pages 244 & 245, to be placed between current DJVU pages 253 & 254. Thanks to anyone who can assist! Londonjackbooks (talk) 19:11, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Done— Mpaa (talk) 21:18, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Wonderful! Thanks again :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:30, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

O Canada

Could someone with appropriate permissions move O Canada (Weir) back to O Canada? I moved it for disambiguation, then decided to disambiguate differently. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:58, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Done -- George Orwell III (talk) 03:53, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

A combined Latin character begs to be identified.

On THIS PAGE, the word "collected" contains a character which I don't know where to find (although I think someone used it before elsewhere). The word is highlighted with red. — Ineuw talk 02:08, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

That's just a ligature of c and t. You should ignore it, as it signifies nothing except the printer's choice of typeface. The Wikisource community decided not to represent this feature in its reproductions, and you can read about that decision on the deprecated Template:Ligature Latin ct lowercase. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:50, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, will be ignored.— Ineuw talk 03:01, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

Table spanning pages (again)

See Page:The Hambledon Men (1907).djvu/150. I feel That I have followed the instructions at Help:Page breaks#Tables across page breaks to the letter, and have done this many times before, but top row ar /150 and /151 are still missing at The Hambledon Men/John Nyren. Moondyne (talk) 02:13, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

I've tweaked by moving the new table-line marker to the top of /151. Seems to be OK now. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 02:19, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, thankyou. All good now. Moondyne (talk) 05:11, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Martha j. Lamb

"the Christmas owl"--I'm looking for a picture of this book and value

Thanks Walker

Merchants of Venice

I would like to find out if there were any famous merchants of Venice during 15th and 16th Centuries. Ben Shishi

The Czar, A Tale of the Time of the First Napleon

I decided recently to validate this older project when I noticed that the chapter numbers in the validated TOC, especially the second page, scrunch into the chapter headings. After a couple of hours of searching the system on the dotted TOC page listing template, I've determined I should update the TOC with chapter-width to be greater than the default 2.5em, or is it because I use IE11? If it looks okay on a different browser, then it's just on my end.

In case you think Why bother?, chapter XXVII and chapter XXVIII both appear to read as XXVII, even on the transcluded page. This is not a good commentary of the time and effort put forth here. Opinions, please. Humbug26 (talk) 17:25, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

This defect/effect is not limited to IE11.

The issue is that the longest "chapter" title is "XXXVIII." (against "A ROSEBUD," on the second page) which requires at least a chapter-width of 4.5em to accommodate. You may wish to round this up to 5em.

If you are going to update this (and please remember, in order to keep the columns aligned, to make any change to each and every {{dotted TOC page listing}} on both content pages) then may I additionally recommend more closely matching the leader layout to the scanned page as well (i.e. by adding |chapter-width=4.5em|symbol=…|spaces=10 to each)? AuFCL (talk) 18:28, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Update done. Thank you for the exact wording to use. Much better looking TOC. Humbug26 (talk) 02:51, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Wikimedia error

I can't seem to access the first few text pages for this month's PotM at Index:Fountains Abbey.djvu. Specifically, I can't access pages 1–22 (dvju pages 27–48), and get an error message when I try. However, I don't seem to have trouble with any other pages or any other Index file, and can access those pages of the DjVu file via Commons.. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:41, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

What do you see when you click on this page: Page:The complete poetical works of Percy Bysshe Shelley, including materials never before printed in any edition of the poems.djvu/547? I get a Wikimedia server error notification page. There are a number of pages in the index this happens with, but not all. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:53, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

That link works for me. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:55, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Works for me now too... as do yours. Hunh! Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:01, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

None of your error-inducing links failed for me when I tried them earlier. However I have since had a single instance of said Wikimedia server error when saving an edit of an unrelated page. This did not recur when retried. May I venture this might be random/unrelated to any particular page? AuFCL (talk) 23:26, 25 January 2016 (UTC)

Unicode for divergent semicircles

Does anyone know any unicode glyph representing the symbol on the lower part of this page? Hrishikes (talk) 06:17, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Maybe "Equivalent to" (0x224d)? ≍ Not really the right semantics I guess though. — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 06:23, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Or you could use {{sfrac nobar|◡|◠}}:

◡/◠

Hesperian 06:28, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Was that 0x25E1 and 0x25E0 paired? i.e. {{sfrac nobar|◡|◠}} giving ◡/◠?

How about overlaying in similar fashion the top (0x23DC) and bottom (0x23DD) parentheses i.e. {{sfrac nobar|⏝|⏜}} giving ⏝/⏜, or even <math>\asymp</math> giving $\asymp$ (probably entirely equivalent to Sam's suggestion above? In context "mensa diverging" is suggestive of asymptotic, so the semantics are not so bad after all?) AuFCL (talk) 06:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Curious side-note: many (not all) <math> entities of the above form have a pseudo-HTML &entity; equivalent form (e.g. <math>\pi</math> ($\pi$) may also be written &pi; (π). Asymp does not obey this rule: <math>\asymp</math> gives $\asymp$; but &asymp; gives ≈ which is much more suggestive of "equivalent to"? AuFCL (talk) 07:59, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Noting that ◡ and ◠ are characters that may not display effectively and instead give the unknown symbol character. — billinghurst sDrewth

The same can be said for most "unusual" characters that may appear in a hosted work, depending on the user's installed fonts. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:01, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Weirdly, the characters do not display in the page, though they display in the edit summary. My reason for mentioning is that sometimes the unicode methodology is not the best outcome (implicitly meaning that sometimes we may need to use an image.)

@Samwilson, @Hesperian: Both will work nicely, I think. Many thanks. Hrishikes (talk) 06:34, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

http://shapecatcher.com/ is a good tool for finding unicode characters. — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 23:50, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Postscript: Both Samwilson and Hesperian's options are browser-compatible in Windows (even XP), but not in Android, without installing extra fonts. So I have gone for AuFCL's math option. Another option may be  )/(  , by using the rotate template. Hrishikes (talk) 05:07, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Page numbers

A few hours ago, the display of page numbers (in the main namespace, for transcluded works) ceased to function properly. Instead of a sequence of page numbers down the left margin (beside the content of each transcluded page), I now see a single bold page number at the top left for the entire chapter / section.

Subsequent page numbers now appear in-line with the text as if they were footnotes, even appearing mid-sentence.

I've also found some pages (such as this one) where the page numbering ceases to display altogether partway down the page. --EncycloPetey (talk) 11:19, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Addendum: This does not seem to be a problem on PCs, where I can still see the page numbers displayed in the margin as I should, but only on Macs. I have run no software updates on my computer that would produce this result. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:23, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

A partial solution: removing the full-stop from all the "Img" <pagelist/> references within Index:Benois - The Russian School of Painting (1916).djvu addresses the appearance of "undefined" (a.k.a. 'disappearing') page numbers within The Russian School of Painting/Chapter I. (I believe this part was an issue touched upon—but not resolved—in this recent discussion.)

The rest you will have to address yourself but the symptoms you describe are pretty much the result of selecting "Page links within text" under the "Display Options" menu. (I'm not suggesting that is what you did do but—I believe—this state is held in a browser cookie so it is conceivable your PC commands one state and the Mac the other.) May I suggest selecting the alternate option under "Display Options" viz. "Page links beside text" and see if normal operation resumes? AuFCL (talk) 19:47, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. That seems to have sorted it, though I still have no idea how that Option was activated. Frankly, I never knew it existed. But then again, my display options at Wiktionary frequently change without my selecting anything either. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:04, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@AuFCL: Remaining question: So, why is it that my default "Display Options" setting on a PC (using Firefox) is with page numbers to the side, but my default setting on the Mac (also using Firefox) is now page numbers in the text? I have not changed any Preferences or selections, but now on a Mac, I have to select the "Display Option" individually for EVERY new work that I view. Previously, I didn't have to do that, and I NEVER want the page numbers to display within the text.

I can't find anything under Preferences (and haven't changed anything in a long time). So (a) is there something I can do at my end? and (b) Did something happen at the MW end to cause this? --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:11, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: (extended local electricity failure here; thus v. tardy response) The fact that one device (the PC) behaves as expected and the Mac does not indicates this is not at root a Preferences or a MW software issue. I lean toward this likely being a stored cookie issue. Does clearing cookies on the Mac restore operation (and remember your choices thereafter?) Some browser/browser extensions "restore" a standard cookie set each new session; if you are using one of these options perhaps a refresh/restart of its store might help? This pretty much exhausts my ideas, short of installing custom overrides in your (as yet non-existent) special:mypage/common.js) and for that I am not a reliable source anyway. AuFCL (talk) 20:42, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

Span style color

I would like to color the text on this page (I am partial to using #cf421e for red), but I can't get span style to work within a template. Can someone please apply the correct formatting? Thanks much, Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:35, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I would rather you didn't because red text = a link that has nothing at the other end. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:18, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

I hadn't thought of that... Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:13, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

There are also the {{red}} and {{color}} templates. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:06, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

While tempting, I respect Beeswaxcandle's opinion... Although I would prefer to overlook some user confusion in favor of true-to-text 'beautification,' it's not about me :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 01:27, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

On that sort of page it has been done previously, though on the occasions that I have done it, I have deepened the intensity of the red. Maybe we should do that to the template. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:24, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I do dislike the current {{red}} color. I have proofread a couple of works with red titling as well (Mine and Thine and Stops of Various Quills )... but I had not considered the problematic aspect of doing so. Londonjackbooks (talk) 02:37, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

It's a similar problem with the {{blue}} template; neither of them should create colours that are too close to the normal link colors (of which there are three, I think: link, externa-link, and redlink?). — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 03:51, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Just a comment on "the current {{red}} colour"—"red" is a standard CSS colour name (#ff0000) and {{red}} is essentially shorthand for {{red|color|red}}; if you have reason to believe that the source colour is not this standard red, there are other shades with defined names such as "crimson", "orangered", "tomato", etc. (see http://www.w3schools.com/colors/colors_hex.asp ) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:24, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

While I dithered about my druthers, formatting was added to the page. I will leave it for now (while removing border/background color) in the absence of policy/guidelines against the use of red to replicate original title coloring. I believe user confusion will be minimal. I wouldn't mind further arguments against doing so, however. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:29, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Guilty. Yes the background was more a demonstration than intended to be taken as final.

Despite the "redlink" name there is absolutely nothing sacred about any given link colour (and it is a simple exercise in CSS to personalise it arbitrarily.) In addition current active CSS set applies text-decoration:underline; when the mouse if "hovered" over any valid link. Up until the point where this sort of level level of deception is applied my personal view is that users should not be inappropriately coddled. AuFCL (talk) 13:04, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

I agree. In my personal opinion, replicating the coloring of the original text is more important than avoiding the coloring of the Wikimedia links. Especially with regard to red, as this colour can be important in the work itself. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:24, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Duplicate pages section seemingly ignored.

Traffic_Signs_Manual_:_Chapter_3- Suggestions? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:45, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Doh. My error in forgetting a terminating slash. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:19, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: Why are these chapters not subpages of Traffic Signs Manual? And even if they should not be subpages, it seems to me that there should not be a space after before colon. For example, Traffic Signs Manual : Chapter 3 should be Traffic Signs Manual: Chapter 3, etc.. --Neo-Jay (talk) 17:50, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

For reasons to do with how the hyperlinking was set up... If you want to change the overall structure feel free, but you'll have to fix up a LOT of internal links. 19:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:17, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I don't understand. It seems that you have not given the reason why you name these works in that way, especially why you add a space before colon. Do you mean that you use those titles because you set up hyperlinking that way? Then why was hyperlinking set up that way? If you agree that there should not be a space before colon, could you please remove that space when you create new pages in the future? --Neo-Jay (talk) 20:18, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

@ShakespeareFan00: I see that you have created Traffic Signs Manual and moved the chapters to its subpages. Many thanks. --Neo-Jay (talk) 20:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

I do not see these many hyperlinks ... I would kill the redirects.— Mpaa (talk) 20:42, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Mpaa- If you want to kill all the redirects, feel free. The new structure is more logical in any event.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:55, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

Sophocles - notice removals

Could someone [ maybe @George Orwell III: ] please remove the Google notice from the front of

File:Sophocles (Classical Writers).djvu and

File:Agamemnon, Choephori, and Eumenides of Aeschylus.djvu? Thanks. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:38, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

(Trying here, since the Rebinding page doesn't seem to be monitored) --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Done —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:54, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

There is a rebinding page? Where? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:33, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

It's here in the Scriptorium, located next to this "Help" page, but its contents aren't actually displayed in the Scriptorium. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:55, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Request for help with a problem on Dutch Wikisource.

Please help me with a problem on Dutch Wikisource.

It's a problem with OCR-layer of the text of this book: s:nl:Index:Het_Koninkrijk_Deel_01_Voorspel_(1969).djvu

The pdf is on Commons: commons:File:L._de_Jong_-_Het_Koninkrijk_der_Nederlanden_in_de_Tweede_Wereldoorlog_1939-1945_Deel_1_Voorspel.pdf

This pdf was uploaded to IA (cf. this procedure).

https://archive.org/details/L.DeJongHetKoninkrijkDerNederlandenInDeTweedeWereldoorlog19391945Deel1Voorspel

The djvu thus created was uploaded to commons again: commons:File:Het_Koninkrijk_Deel_01_Voorspel_(1969).djvu

This djvu is used in Dutch Wikisource.

The problem is this: from (djvu-)page 25 onward (page 14) there is a page missing in ocr: so the ocr is not corresponding to the scanned image, but to the next page. Further up there are more pages missing. I don't exactly know which ones. I suppose a total of 24 pages is missing: djvu page 744 is the last one with an ocr. After that there are 24 more scanned pages in the book.

Can anyone explain what's gone wrong here? And how could I solve this problem?

ps. After the moment I discovered this problem, I uploaded a new version (directly from NIOD) to IA. And again to Commons. And made this s:nl:Index:De_Jong_-_Koninkrijk_Deel_01_Voorspel_(1969).djvu. This file shows exactly the same problem. So it looks like there's something corrupt in the original pdf.

Thanks in advance, --Dick Bos (talk) 20:17, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

tl;dr: get IA to reprocess the file to generate the djvu.
@Dick Bos: It is an OCR problem at Internet Archive, and one that I saw there several years back, though not one I have seen recently. You need to ask them to reprocess the file, explaining that it seems to be inserting blank pages, (well that is what I was told back then by Hank). I had an email address for him back then for a direct fix, though suspect that things have progressed to a better alerting/reporting process. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:52, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

https://archive.org/about/faqs.php#Report_Item and the forums look to be the best way to progress matters. — billinghurst sDrewth 21:58, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Thanks for your response. I mailed to IA. But to be honest, I'm not sure that the problem is with IA. See my "ps". The second upload had exactly the same mistake. For now I'll wait for the answer of IA. Greetings, --Dick Bos (talk) 17:10, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

My understanding is that it needs a tweak to the method of derivation. Differences in the PDF original that the derivation has not accounted for in their switches. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:17, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Requesting guidance on importing a .pdf file created from the original page layout software and containing formatting and images.

I recently worked with author Richard D. Jarrard to have him release his book "SCIENTIFIC METHODS" under CC SA 3.0 license. He then transmitted to me a .pdf file created from the original page layout software. This .pdf file is an original digital file containing the text, formatting, and images; it is not a scanned image. I uploaded this to Wikisource, see: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:Sm_all_cc.pdf At this point the system is directing that each page be scanned and proofread. No accommodation is (automatically) being made to preserve the formatting and images. This is unfortunate because the starting point for the upload is a .pdf file in camera ready form which includes the text, formatting, and images.

Is there a way to use Wikisource as a transparent repository so the book can be captured and made available in its original and complete form?

Thanks! --Lbeaumont (talk) 00:24, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

You are correct that the proofreading system has not been designed for native digital works, and that is due to the documents not needing proofreading. If the work is needing formatting, then we should be able to quickly apply the formatting, and we can take it through the proofreading system, or it can be put straight to a page, and linked back to the PDF. Much depends on the document itself. Unless someone replies more quickly, I will have a look when I have adequate time. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:22, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I've had some luck with using online PDF-to-HTML converters and then wikifying from there; that's what I did for The Book of Common Prayer (ECUSA). It's still a pain to wikify and then copy-paste into each page (although you may be able to do something with MS Word's wikimedia extendion) but at least then it fits into WS's system of scan-backed hosted works. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

I also have the text in html form. Is there a way to work directly from the html? Thanks --Lbeaumont (talk) 18:45, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Table of Contents for The Voyage of Nearchus and the Periplus of the Erythrean Sea

The table of contents needs some attention. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 15:04, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Done —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:33, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, now I'm wondering if we should give the table of contents the long ess letters and "ct" ligatures. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:08, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

We don't do the ct ligatures, that was decided a while ago. For long s, use {{ls}} which will allow users to choose whether to see 's' or 'ſ'. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:16, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

babies books

There is a page where I can find list of babies books? 5.102.229.242 10:53, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

For Wikisource texts: probably not exhaustive, but we have Portal:Children's literature... or a broader portal at Portal:Children. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:08, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

The books in this cat. are for older . I need for babies...--5.102.229.242 11:15, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

There is A Book of Nursery Rhymes (with b/w images) that might serve a sing-song purpose for babies... Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:35, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

A new flora of Northumberland and Durham with sketches of its climate and physical geography

I wonder if anyone can help me finish off the "New flora of Northumberland and Durham with sketches of its climate and physical geography" (Index:Transactions_of_the_Natural_History_Society_of_Northumberland,_Durham,_and_Newcastle-upon-Tyne_(1867).djvu).

I've been working on it for many months and could use some help with the final validations and making it into a nicely formatted book.

Qgroom (talk) 10:56, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Adding author to Index

I found the page en.wikisource.org/wiki/Salvin,_Francis_Henry_(DNB12) and noticed that this author was not in the index. But when I tried to put the link in, I couldn't get it to work though I tried to imitate existing links. Maybe someone with a bit of experience could add it for me and then I could look at it and see what I hadn't known to do. Wnholmes (talk) 01:35, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you're asking for. Are you trying to link to an author page of Francis Henry Salvin here on wikisource? Jpez (talk) 04:50, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

The redlink in the header, and the one I added here, is to an index entry that has not been created: Author:Francis Henry Salvin. There are no works by this author here, just the work about him that is mentioned above.CYGNIS INSIGNIS 15:16, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

Author page is now created and has been linked at Wikidata. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:47, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Pages not part of text

DJVU pages 293 to 296 (labeled as "ERR") in Index:Poems by William Wordsworth (1815) Volume 1.djvu are not part of the text. The first two pages are part of a work entitled A Walk Through Wales. I am not actually sure where the image of Tintern Abbey originates from. It is not present in two other 1815 versions of Wordsworth's Poems online, nor does it follow the pages in versions of A Walk Through Wales that I have viewed. Can the pages be deleted from the Index? Londonjackbooks (talk) 03:02, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Looks like an original binder's error. The page numbers are in sequence, and if you look at the index into Volume II page 73 is about—well just guess! AuFCL (talk) 03:24, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

I noted the poem about Tintern Abbey in Volume II. But the abbey is also mentioned in the pages from A Walk Through Wales. Image caption font styles also differ between the Tinturn Abbey image and the two frontispieces of Poems. Should I leave the pages, only not transclude them? Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:01, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Confirmed that the Tintern Abbey image/caption is the frontispiece to an edition of A Walk Through Wales (1798) as per an IA version. Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:45, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

I suppose the real question remaining is, is "Laodamia" complete (i.e. is printed page 232—DJVU/292) really it's final page. If in fact that is the case then everything is "recoverable" when transcluded. Does that seem reasonable? AuFCL (talk) 21:17, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

"Laodamia" is complete in the text. I checked against two other 1815 editions at Google books, as well as other versions of the poem. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:43, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Luther's Small Catechism generate PDF link

I was trying to generate a PDF for Luther's Small Catechism using the link on the sidebar, but it seems something is off in the source code of this text. I get the error message:

Generation of the document file has failed.

Status: ! Argument of \@sect has an extra }.

Thanks. Internoob (talk) 05:52, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

@Internoob: Is it still happening for you? Also can you try to see if you get the same or a different result from https://tools.wmflabs.org/wsexport/tool/book.php when you plug in the data for the book and create the file as a pdf. — billinghurst sDrewth 13:17, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Yes it is still happening. The wmflabs tool works perfectly though. Thanks! Internoob (talk) 03:01, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Fine in Preview; fine in transclusion; disaster in Page: space?

(—)

This page Page:Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire_(1827)_Vol_1.djvu/85 looks a complete mess, except when transcluded, or when Previewed in Edit mode. Presumably this is a gadget or general javascript issue (when viewing in Page: space the page "redraws": correct momentarily ⇒ final mess.) Any reasonable suggestions, please? AuFCL (talk) 06:02, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

It's been happening with any pages that have sidenotes on the right. I suspect it has to do with a change to the way the side-by-side pages are rendered in the Page namespace, and limitations on display area. But it's been this way for quite a while now, so it isn't the result of a recent change. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:06, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Looks like my antipathy for side-noted pages has finally caught up with me.

Now that you have pointed this out upon further checking in mobile mode the Page: view is almost acceptable.

Oh stability, thou art a cruel mistress! AuFCL (talk) 06:13, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Our Sidenotes are treacherous. The formatting in Page: ns is due to {{sidenotes begin}}, which is not used in main ns, and instead has other formatting applied through the common.css. Sidenotes also behave differently in the different layouts available, and we truly need someone to assist us to fix up sidenotes so they behave nicely (talking about {{left sidenote}} and right, {{outside L}} and RL). If we can get something happening at Wikimania, it would be good to organise to get some of the WMF's css experts to give us some assistance during the hackathon preceding the main conference. We also need to address whether right sidenote is functional for us with our floating right margin, or the use of left and right sidenote as a combination is helpful. [If we are truly replicating a work that uses left and right sidenotes would occur, however, our webpage production then looks beastly]. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:42, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

This is an interesting topic. Seems there's possibly some compromises to be made, especially if we're to also look at how these things render in epub! :( I'm hopefully going to be at Wikimania; would love to help with it if possibly I can (not that my CSSfu is all that great). — Sam Wilson ( Talk • Contribs ) … 07:46, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

For what it is worth, here are some observations resulting from a bit of a wild goose-chase. I hope sombody can join the dots missing from the following:

1. Deleting cookies—quite specifically the "layout" cookie under the "en.wikisource.org" domain—restores normal operation; at least until "Layout 2" is reselected in main space view.
2. It appears that the self.ws_layouts['Layout 2'] parameter values from MediaWiki:Common.js are being propagated in into Page: space. Certainly the line reading

   '.sidenote-right':"position:absolute; left:37em; width:16em; text-indent:0em; text-align:left;",
   

—appears to be providing the style content which is being propagated into non-edit-mode Page: displays. I have not isolated the code which is doing this, but whatever it is it is apparently forcing the cookie-delivered last main space Display Option settings inappropriately onto Page: views. Preview of page: is unaffected as only CSS class="sidenote-right" appears in the Preview box, without the additional style=… appended to non-edit Page: sidenote displays.

All in all I rather suspect this is a rogue piece of javascript rather than a CSS issue (standalone sidenote-left and sidenote-right appear to work fine.) Of course I hope this leads somewhere usable. AuFCL (talk) 08:43, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Here are a few more dots to add to above. I can now completely control this situation by manipulating browser cookie values. This code in MediaWiki:PageNumbers.js is the agency responsible for transferring the cookie-selected layout CSS into Page:

	function set_by_name ( name, persist ) {
		var selected_layout = self.ws_layouts[ name ];
		if ( !selected_layout ) return;		//does not exist

		$.each( selected_layout, function ( selector, style ) {
			$( selector ).attr( "style", style );
		} );

		$( "#d-textLayout" ).children( "a" ).html( name );

		self.layout_name = name;
		if ( persist ) $.cookie( "layout", name );

		pagenumbers.refresh_offsets();
	}

I have not found where the cookie is being set (I assume it should never be set at all for Page: name space pages) but now know its full specification [name="layout"; domain="en.wikisource.org"; path=(e.g.) "/wiki/Page:Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire_(1827)_Vol_1.djvu/85"), content="Layout%202"]. AuFCL (talk) 11:01, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Dispose of the right alignment and reiteration of the chapter number. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 08:48, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Quite true. Good point but somewhat irrelevant to the structural collapse which is the current state of dynamic layouts w.r.t. side-nodes. In short I agree, but this consideration comes later. AuFCL (talk) 10:09, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

It appears that this topic has split between my issue of inappropriate cookie-driven influence on Page: space by PageNumbers.js (and perhaps other) javascript; and a semi-related CSS design issue affecting main space. How about the two issues be kept decently at arm's length (except where proven to interact) otherwise no assisting developer is going to take either issue seriously? AuFCL (talk) 01:35, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry about that; rectified by making a new sub-section below.

Same answer though - inline template css vs site css vs pagenumber.js realted css all defined under the same class label is more of a mess now after some unnoticed change in load order or something I'm guessing. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:25, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I believe I have the dynamics if not the details worked out for this fault. Starting from a clean-cookie state:

1. First view an item in Page: name space which contains sidenotes and verify the sidenote display is acceptable.
2. Simply browsing a transcluding article defaults to "Layout 1" with no cookie being set.
3. "Layout 1" does not handle sidenotes particularly well so select "Layout 2". The display changes and a cookie is incidentally set and stored on your browser. The details of the cookie are: {domain: "en.wikisource.org", name: "layout", value: "Layout%202" (i.e. encoding of "Layout 2"), path: "/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire_(Oxford)/"}. Now a subtle but ultimately important point. The article path which was being viewed is in fact "//en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_History_of_the_Decline_and_Fall_of_the_Roman_Empire_(Oxford)/II". Note that the final level of the path has been truncated.
4. Lets repeat the above two steps on a completely different article chosen such that there is no subpage, e.g. Silas Marner. Switching to "Layout 2" on that article creates a new cookie with attributes {domain: "en.wikisource.org", name: "layout", value: "Layout%202", path: "/wiki/"}…
5. And now the real trouble begins: path: /wiki/ happens to match Page: space. So now returning to view the item which was formerly O.K. now contains corrupted sidenotes. More confusingly still an earlier version of that page displays correctly! for example.
6. But that too can be damaged. Simply choosing Display Option (for variety: "Layout 3") on a permanent link of any main space transcluding article special:permalink/6043855 creates a third cookie (details: {domain: "en.wikisource.org", name: "layout", value: "Layout%203", path: "/w/"}.)
7. And now your troubles with respect the Page: space victim are complete. Its sidenote display is corrupted in two different ways irrespective of whether it is viewed as the latest or an historic revision.

The only way an end-user can restore sane operation in this state is to clear cookies and start again. The only fixes I currently can envisage for this bug are either to locate and fix the cookie path-storage problem; or to modify the invocation sequence so that PageNumbers.js does not ever run against Page:/114 name space viewing sessions. (I do not think there is any adverse impact in the latter and it is likely the far easier solution to effect. Opinions/options anyone?) AuFCL (talk) 05:17, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Umm. Use mediawiki.cookie instead of jquery.cookie in MediaWiki-specific scripts and Add mediawiki.cookie module to allow reading and writing cookies with correct settings: Maybe this is an old issue after all? AuFCL (talk) 06:33, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

The deal with side-notes (again)

In a nutshell - there have always been issues with properly implementing "side-notes" especially after the implementation of Dynamic Layouts and more so now with the advent of mobile mode (which did not "exist" at all at the time the current "approach" was developed). As a result, the solutions for proper Page: namespace rendering and main namespace rendering are far from simple template trickery anymore -- though forcing all-right or all-left main space rendering of 'alternating' side-notes dramatically helped us at one point, that too became a moot endeavor (again) with the ever-increasing rise of mobile mode on the scene. The problem boils down to "margin-management".

The universal challenge to "margin-management" in desktop mode in generic terms is the ever present left side-bar (and site logo) eating up 10 to 11 ems of total usable screen width by default. This makes managing the actual content space problematic but not impossible under the currently available skins afforded to us in desktop view. Mobile mode, however, hides that left sidebar by design until selected by the User: so managing the content and it's margins is a matter of 'responsive design' (e.g. shrink your browser window's width and [eventually] the left and right margins shrink accordingly while the content remains centered 'on the fly').

Wikisource's desktop view has an additional challenge to the universal one for "margin-management" and, in specific terms, its Dynamic Layouts themselves. Having the content & margins "set" by fixed css values in a three tiered, inter-wrapped, div box-container foundation is seemingly the exact opposite of the sought after 'responsive design' approach needed today to bridge the two views never mind the two namespaces in question. All the other considerations to making side-notes and making many other long desired facets for WS a reality are secondary to one galactic first step.

in my most humble of humble opinions - all avenues for true solutions boil down to one unavoidable reality - to obtain the needed level of "margin-management" while moving forward, Dynamic Layouts must be scrapped and replaced with a comparable 'responsive layout' design akin to the one being developed in the current mobile mode skin (called Minerva). -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:04, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

@George Orwell III:. Thanks. So in a nutshell, what do you see as the next required steps. If it is a systemic CSS architecture issue it would seem that we need the involvement of staff of WMF, or at least the decision makers. This is clearly a x-Wikisource issue, and getting these major problematic agenda items for Wikimania identified ahead of time is of vital importance. [Getting them in phabricator/Getting resources/Allocating time] —unsigned comment by Billinghurst (talk) 00:57, 20 February 2016 (UTC).

Not everyone used Dynamic Layouts so its really not a 'high level' problem but a local one. The basic premise is sound but the current approach is has become flawed over time is all. Reverting back to a 'straight n' simple' transclusion using only the MW pagenum template (no dynamic layout and related) template "works" for desktop as well as mobile views; its just a matter of building "up" from a somewhat-similar foundation as found in those linked examples. -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:25, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Though you are saying that works with sidenotes do not work well in mobile, which I would see as problematic. Similarly the translation to en EPUB should be neater. It sounds as though we need to having a new look at what we believe is reasonable for sidenotes, and that has the complexity of sidenotes display if possible on monitors, and some other alternative for mobile/epub. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:02, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for not being more clear -- side-notes in mobile mode is untested at best and let us leave it at that; but since the Minerva skin (mobile mode) already does a good job of 'managing-margins' compared to our current desktop view (e.g. has an inconsequential site logo; no left hand sidebar unless called upon & browser window margins shrink & expand according to a foundation based on a rudimentary responsive design by default), creating a side-notes regime would be rather 'simplistic' to implement in some form or another in mobile mode. The key for that side of the rendering coin all depends on if and when the HTML5 <aside> element is finally whitelisted for wiki mark-up acceptance and usage.

Fwiw.... I've seen side-notes in action on some of the pay-for legal document repositories and they prove to be rather pointless on every phablet type of device I've come across unless at least viewed in "landscape mode". In "portrait view", side-notes are either hidden by default, overflowed/scrolled/hidden off beyond the margin(s) or have the option of becoming pop-ups if the User ticks on the marker text within the content the side-note is referring to. In general, side-notes on anything smaller than a laptop caused more clutter than clarity in my experience.

As for EPUB, PDF and similar docs overall, I can only assume they would also be better "served" with a less ridgid foundation than the one found with our current "dynamic layout" approach. The closer we come to mirroring a more traditional semantic document outline, the better chance for improved conversion/publication results is the way I understand things. Since we are only seeking to improve 'margin management' through some form of responsive web design, the mere "removal" of the 3-wrapping div container scheme used for dynamic layouts and all it's .js driven settings should be a step closer to that parity without much difference in the dynamic-ness of the rendered content if at all.

And both of these avenues of [re]development need not interfere with current operations here if "we" can come together on a regular basis on test2.wikipedia.org to work on this btw. -- George Orwell III (talk) 22:55, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Herbert John Giraud

I have a portrait of Herbert John Giraud that I would like to upload to his page. Could you help me do this, please. It is from the Illustrated London News of Feb. 11 1988.—unsigned comment by ASGV (talk) 14:12, 17 February 2016 (UTC).

Directions on how to do this are at Help:Adding images, specifically steps #Upload steps and #Adding to Wikisource. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:14, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

@ASGV: Generally public domain images would be loaded at Commons (see c:Commons:FAQ and c:Special:UploadWizard), rather than here; noting that images at Commons can be used here and at any of the WMF wikis.

Also, Our images of a specific person here is for when the images exist as part of the work that we are reproducing, or we are using it illustratively for an author page. As we don't have an author page for Giraud at this point, can you identify the use of the image? As a little point of clarity too, you said 1988 published, for someone dying in 1888. There are checks that we will need to undertake for a 1988 image to ensure that it is in the public domain, it cannot be automatically assumed that it is. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:35, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your feedback. The etched portrait is from The Illustrated London News, Feb. 11, 1888..sorry, my error. I have discovered several examples of Giraud's published research. Should I compile a list and perhaps put these forward for consideration so that an author page can be created for him?--86.159.203.41 09:50, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi there. You are encouraged to be bold and have a go yourself. The page would be located at Author:Herbert John Giraud. Just click that red link and make a start. No-one will mind if your first few efforts are imperfect or incomplete. To ensure you get the format roughly right, it might be helpful to copy-paste from the edit window of another author, such as Author:Nehemiah Grew, and then update. Hesperian 11:44, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh, I have started the page, so feel free to follow Hesp's example and add works, anything published can be added to the bibliography. 1888 is perfect, and please do upload it to Commons. Once done, please either load the data image to Wikidata, or tell us the filename here and we can add it to have the author page have the image. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:07, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion error of a template {{PSM rule}}

At the bottom of this transcluded page the above mentioned template has gone haywire, although it's properly displayed in the Page: namespace. "Why oh why"? — Ineuw talk 22:41, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

I can only assume you have fixed this already as no flaw apparent here. AuFCL (talk) 23:31, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Not really. Here is an uploaded image of what I see. But it is OK on other pages. — Ineuw talk 01:15, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

I see now. That might be considered to be a a self-inflicted injury: typoscan standalone hyphens and mixed alphabetic and digit sequences. Choose one: you cannot have this cake and eat it too. AuFCL (talk) 01:30, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I thought so the last time I looked at it that it was the typoscan, and I won't argue that it's OK on the other pages, but let me think about it, since both are important. — Ineuw talk 01:38, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Actually, the error is not in the template, but another page of that transcluded articlege. Just had the opportunity to see that when two typos showed close to each other, and I knew that was not a typo. (It was the braces {{ of a correctly defined template) but the second was a legit error. When I fixed the legit error the typo errors disappeared. I consider this a a bonus feature of the script, not to be touched. I think I know where the error came from and let you know. — Ineuw talk 02:03, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Please don't touch anything. I fixed the typos that created the mess and the PSM rule is fine. — Ineuw talk 02:10, 18 February 2016 (UTC)

Three Thousand Selected Quotations from Brilliant Writers

Some guidance, please. After searching the system for clues, I'm not certain of any procedures/protocols regarding setting up links to authors in this kind of project; especially if there is currently not an author file, causing redlinks. I'm just getting started and already there are quite a few redlinks. Is there any consensus: link everything (in case, something is set up), or link just those that are currently present? With EB and DNB (and others) being processed continually, author files appear quite frequently. Thoughts, please. Humbug26 (talk) 23:21, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Definitely set up author links for all the authors, whether we currently have pages for them or not. They will (eventually) all get created. It's much easier to do it at the time of proofreading, than to go back to find them later. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 23:44, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Phe created a javascript tool that does a somewhat check of WP for the person. If you would like the tool, I can add it to your configuration. If you need a hand with author pages, then let the community know. We can chip in if they are summarised on a small number of pages. There is also plenty of tracking on these pages due, so we will be able to come along and tidy if they are missing aspects. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:20, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Creating author pages is way beyond my skill-level at this time. I was concerned about the number of redlinks was all. Maybe a maintenance project for another day (?) Humbug26 (talk) 02:20, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Author-page-creation specialists: Is there anyone interested in a not-in-a-hurry kind of project? I have gone through the Index of Authors for this project and linked where files exist. Most redlinked have clues provided. I do intend to proofread this project. This is not just a make-work project. Listing is here. Humbug26 (talk) 19:01, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Unrelated note. For some reasons, pages are already marked as Proofread even if just uploaded via bot. So technically, if you mark them as validated, they will go through one single proofreading step only. So either you keep them as Proofread, or we should demote those pages to Not proofread.— Mpaa (talk) 19:11, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

I did wonder about that strangeness: that a bot set the page as proofread. Guess I should have mentioned it before I started. If there is a magic way to reset those to red-background "not proofread" AND wipe out my 13 pages of edits, that would probably be best. I was not super-happy with the direction I was taking this project and would prefer this to be in a better shape to start over. Can these adjustments be done? I'll wait until either status changes or further comments are forthcoming. Humbug26 (talk) 02:20, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

I fixed the "not proofread" status. I did not do anything regarding your 13 pages. I did not see anything wrong in them besides you can always improve them.— Mpaa (talk) 20:57, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Thank you, much appreciated. I'll continue on. Humbug26 (talk) 22:12, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

@Mpaa: that bot additions by John looks purposeful, so all I can suspect is that it came from a proofread source (Gutenberg?) prior to enWS. It was 2008, somewhat advanced colonial days with the proofread tool and practice, so measuring by our learnings since is probably a reflective exercise. Ask John to see if he remembers — billinghurst sDrewth 04:36, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: If it means anything, there is a version (appears to be the same) from IA, showing an upload date of Oct 28, 2006. Humbug26 (talk) 19:42, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Images offset with the {{FIS}} do not print properly.

This image is an example of what happens when printing a page with an offset image wrapped with the {{FIS}}. I tried every printing possibility from the sidebar menu. Print as PDF, prints only the text in two columns and I can't find where to override the two column printing. Is there anything can be done about this? Or is there any other solution? — Ineuw talk 04:20, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Is that a dynamic layout issue? You haven't given the actual page, so cannot be replicated or easily investigated. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:15, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Got it Popular Science Monthly/Volume 12/February 1878/Geysers and How They are Explained. Printable version looks fine for me (Ff 44.0.2), epub fine, pdf loses images <grr>. Is the printing issue a new occurrence, in that you haven't printed it out previously? Or is it other pages print fine, and it is just this page?

The community never addressed the defaults (such as one or two column output) but it can be done as proved by concept with {{GenPDF}} (NOT FOR GENERAL USAGE WITHOUT FURTHER DEVELOPMENT). In a nutshell, the defaults have been brought more inline with what Users: wanted....

{{GenPDF|title=Popular Science Monthly/Volume 12/February 1878/Geysers and How They are Explained}}

Q: Do images using {{FI}} produce the same lack of rendering in PDFS? -- George Orwell III (talk) 02:29, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

Condensed line height

Hi all! Is there a way to simulate the condensed line height found in all the quoted text of a book I worked on in the past, as in this page here Page:The Doctrines of the New Church Briefly Explained.djvu/32

Thanks for any help Jpez (talk) 06:42, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Either {{fine block}} or {{smaller block}} might be appropriate. (In detail try {{fine block/s}}/{{fine block/e}}
{{smaller block/s}}/{{smaller block/e}} to handle page-crossing.) AuFCL (talk) 07:12, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

So I went ahead and made my own templates for the first time, basically a copy paste of the {{fine block}} /s /e templates without the change in font size, and I called them {{condense}} which is exactly what I wanted. Thanks to AuFCL. Jpez (talk) 18:19, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

@Jpez: Before you use the new template, we already have we already have several templates which reduce the line heights we have {{fs90}}, {{fs85}}, {{fs75}} for single paragraphs, and {{fs90/s}} paired with {{fs90/e}}, and {{fs85/s}},paired with {{fs85/e}} for spanning multiple paragraphs and pages. — Ineuw talk 18:33, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

P.S. I looked at the template, and strongly urge you to change the <div> to <span> before its use proliferates because it cannot used inline, and at times one may be need it. — Ineuw talk 18:44, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

In fact there is already a SPAN-based version of this: {{line-height}} AuFCL (talk) 08:40, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I don't think that we need yet another span or paragraph formatting. Suggest replacement with an existing template, and removal of template. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:47, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

I couldn't get the required effect with any of the above templates. If anyone can make it work I have no problem using an existing template. Here is the effect I want with the template I'm using

This is {{fs90}} which is nowhere near I want

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

and I don't have a clue how I can get the required effect with {{line-height}}.

@Jpez: I assume that you want to compress/reduce the line-height of the standard size font. The templates above are for reduced font-size and matching line heights. They won't do the job and the {{line-height}} doesn't work because it's using <span> instead of <div>. This means that I must eat my words written above. One cannot reduce line height using <span>.

So, look at THIS PAGE page for examples of 100% and reduced line heights of the standard font size, and adjust the line height as you wish. Forget about templates and wrap the text in tags. — Ineuw talk 16:23, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Ineuw: To be fair I wasn't very clear with asking what I wanted to do. I thought the prefered way of doing things here was to use templates rather than tags thats why I thought I'd try to create a template for what I wanted to do. If it's preferable to wrap the text in tags, I'll do that, no problem. Jpez (talk) 17:53, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Jpez: As User:Billinghurst mentioned, we really have a lot of font templates (too many in fact), and none of them are versatile enough satisfy all requirements. There were attempts to address the issue but they didn't work. I did my homework on the line-height subject, and the list of effort is too long to list here. Templates would be the way to go but if it doesn't meet the desired effect, use tags. I learned to use them as well for the same reason, with the difference. that I use a keyboard macro program (AutoHotkey in Windows) instead of typing or copy and paste.

I will create a copy of the {{line-height}} in a sandbox and if it works, I will propose to the community to change the existing template from <span> to <div>, after checking the changed effect on currently existing text where it was used. — Ineuw talk 18:40, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

The sample template is set up in User:Ineuw/Sandbox5 and applied in User:Ineuw/Sandbox6. — Ineuw talk 18:58, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

@Jpez: We cannot change {{line-height}} to <div> because (and as crazy as this sounds) wherever it's already used, it is for increasing the space between rows. So, I tested my copy with the following results.

<span> only works TO INCREASE line height but CANNOT DECREASE it.

while

<div> only works TO DECREASE line height but CANNOT INCREASE it.

. . . and so ends my contribution to this topic. Go with my blessings and just use HTML tags with <div> to reduce the line height. — Ineuw talk 20:37, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

ok I will replace the template with html tags then and then propose a speedy deletion for it when finished. Thanks for all the help! Jpez (talk) 04:37, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

Pagelist shortcut?

Every other page of this work is blank. Is there an easier way to create a pagelist than 15=1 16="-" 17=2, 18="-" ...? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:00, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

The short answer regrettably is no. The long answer is that others have inquired about this before and there is even an open Phabricator request for a change quite similar to your requirements. AuFCL (talk) 00:24, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

The way I cope with this sort of thing is to create the list in a Spreadsheet program external to WS and then copy/paste the result in. Some formulas for the various parts and then Concantenation gets me pretty close to what I need. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:46, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

Cute. Is "Concantenation" perhaps a portmanteau of "concatenation" and "cantana"? AuFCL (talk) 05:27, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

I think he's just putting the "can't" in concatenation. :) --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:09, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

How to Assist

What is the most needed and easiest way to assist people on this forum?—unsigned comment by Csalberg (talk) 17:52, 3 March 2016 (UTC).

Keep an eye on the discussions, and if you know the answer to a question or how to solve a problem, go for it. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:58, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

math formulas are broken when inline

The math formulas on this page and the page proofread nearly two years ago, with the formula inline, but this no longer works, the formulas only show up properly if I separate them into paragraphs. Has something changed? — Ineuw talk 03:58, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

In fact the new <math chem> component does appear currently to be broken here and on wikipedia but that does not appear to be the problem on this page. I have re-proofread it to try to get the validation process restarted. AuFCL (talk) 07:23, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

The Grammar of Heraldry

This scan is missing pages 54, 55. Can someone fix this please? — Zoeannl (talk) 10:52, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

If you can find and locally upload the missing images, someone will take care of adjusting the djvu.— Mpaa (talk) 10:55, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Like this? [[File:P 54 Heraldry.pdf|missing page]] from File:The Grammar of Heraldry, Cussans, 1866.djvu, [[File:P55 Heraldry.pdf|missing page]] from File:The Grammar of Heraldry, Cussans, 1866.djvu from Hathi trust. The scan on Archive.org and Google both have the pages missing. Zoeannl (talk) 11:56, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

A different title, "Handbook of heraldry : with instructions for tracing pedigrees and deciphering ancient mss., rules for the appointment of liveries, &c" 1893 (4th ed.), which appears to be a greatly expanded and much revised version of the "Grammar of heraldry". Good copies of that work are available at archive.org, I would pick handbookofherald00cussuoft as a trusted source. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 14:31, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I tried to find another scanned source for the "Grammar", hope someone else has more success. There is a record of a physical copy at freelibrary.org (Philadelphia) and WorldCat mentions copies elsewhere, an email or visit might find a librarian who is willing to scan the pages. NYPL has uploaded lots of stuff in their archives, they may eventually produce one of their excellent scans. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 16:02, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

I’ve found the right book on Hathi. Are the above downloads alright? Shall I just replace them with the right pages?— Zoeannl (talk) 10:12, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

That is the right book. No, the downloads above are not the same pages. Download the file at the link you just found, if you can, I am not able to. CYGNIS INSIGNIS 11:19, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Done— Mpaa (talk) 17:42, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Unable to display properly the {{brace2}} in a table

There is a {{brace2|3|r}} to be displayed in this table. It is defined properly but just won't work display properly. Could someone please look at it and tell me what is wrong? Thanks — Ineuw talk 07:17, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

It looks as though Zoeannl has corrected the problem. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:08, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Unfortunately, on my display it looks as if nothing changed. If anyone sees this differently please let me know. — Ineuw talk 16:42, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

I pasted the table into this sandbox where the brace displays properly. Also, when I refresh the page Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 22.djvu/399 the correct brace flashes by, but then reverts to a regular typed brace. — Ineuw talk 16:50, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Have you tried purging? It sounds as though your browser cache is trying to hold on to old data. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:59, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Very weird. It looks fine to me, I did wonder what the problem was… Zoeannl (talk) 22:54, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you for looking into it. It's seems to be some sort of a Firefox problem with the edit page. I checked it in Chrome and it's looks OK there. — Ineuw talk 02:54, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe a cache issue. It is fine for me in Firefox. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:27, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

Aligning poetry with marginal additions

I'm stumped on what to do at Page:The Dramas of Aeschylus (Swanwick).djvu/247 to get the poetry to align correctly. The text is part of a play, and the numbers are speaking roles. I can get the numbers to the margin where I want them, but the text readjusts, and I don't want it to do that. Help? --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:58, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

This seems to do the trick: https://en.wikisource.org/w/index.php?title=Page%3AThe_Dramas_of_Aeschylus_%28Swanwick%29.djvu%2F247&type=revision&diff=6140534&oldid=6140522 —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:05, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Verse numbering before each line

I've been trying to come up with a way to emulate the way verses are numbered here Page:The Holy Bible Vol 1 (Thomson).djvu/11. The problem was that when verses were floated left, when two verses were on the same line they would overlap. While I had no clue how html works I did some searching and learning on the way and I found this works. By adding a white background the overlapping was solved and by using z-index I could place in order which verse should be displayed before the other. Now I would like to ask if this code is acceptable and if there is any reason I shouldn't use it, and if I can use it I would like help to create a template where the z-index and verse number could be assigned.

Here is an example of how the verse number is displayed

<span style="color:#2E8B57; background-color:#FFFFFF; position:relative; z-index:99; font-size:small; float:left; text-align:right; margin-left:-3em; width:2.5em;">Verse Number</span>

And here is an example of it being used in the first paragraph of Genesis Page:The Holy Bible Vol 1 (Thomson).djvu/11.

I. IN the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was invisible and unfurnished and there was darkness over this abyss; and a breath of God was brought on above the water. 3 And God said, "Let there be Light;" and there was light. 4 And God saw the light that it was good. And God made a separation between the light and the darkness. 5 And God called the light day; and the darkness he called night. And there was an evening and there was a morning. The first day.—unsigned comment by Jpez (talk) 19:28, 7 March 2016‎ (UTC).

I personally think this is fantastic, well done! I may use this myself on some of my projects. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:42, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Beleg Tâl! I had a look at how other templates look and thought I'd have a go at creating one. I created {{Verseline}} which seems to be working here Page:The Holy Bible Vol 1 (Thomson).djvu/11. I'm sure the id field contained in {{verse}} could be also implemented so we could link to verses but I have no clue how to add it. Also the z-index number has to be manually entered, is there a way this could be automatically added? I start with 99 for the first verse in each chapter and count down for each succeeding verse since the verse preferred to be displayed must have a higher value than the succeeding verses. Jpez (talk) 05:12, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

z-index values do not have to be positive so why not set them to z-index:{{{2|-{{{1}}}}}}; instead? That way no calculation is required and the second parameter need only be entered (say) if the verse number were expressed in Roman numerals? In similar vein anchors ala {{verse}} may be added like this id="verse:{{{1}}}" and referred to e.g. as [[link#verse:5]].AuFCL (talk) 08:00, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Perfect, it works like a charm, thanks @AuFCL:! About the id, I'd also like to add the chapter id as {{verse}} does, so it can be inline with all the other translations. Jpez (talk) 08:51, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I've added the id with chapter. Note that my changes have shifted the verse number and z-index down one parameter, so instead of {{verseline|1}} you will use {{verseline||1}} if no chapter is specified. —[[User:|Beleg Tâl]] (talk) 14:22, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @Beleg Tâl:. Now I think I can start using the template. Thanks for all the help. Jpez (talk) 15:55, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

@Jpez, @Beleg Tâl, @AuFCL: Has anyone checked how it works when exported to EPUB, PDF, and how it looks on mobile devices? — billinghurst sDrewth 20:23, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: I know this is not-quite answering your question but I have checked PDF export (in-lines all the verse references) and "mobile view" and both of those are low-key "O.K." I have not checked EPUB myself. However even if that does something strange there is a case for fixing the conversion process if the desktop view is correct so I am not sure that ought to be considered a show-stopper for the template. In short this whole area has been left "in limbo" for (this little bunny at least considers) rather too long? AuFCL (talk) 21:51, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: I created a quick transclution here The Holy Bible Vol 1 (Thomson). I had a look at the pdf export and it is displaying the verse numbers inline instead of floating them left. I also had a look at the epub export on my nook simple touch. It was displaying the verse numbers offscreen, so I tried adding a 3em left margin and it looked pretty good after that. The verse numbers start off fine on each paragraph but the following verses seem to be one line lower than they should be. I couldn't see what would happen if two verse numbers overlap though because the ereader has a small display and it's very unlikeley two verses would ever overlap. Jpez (talk) 21:46, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. None of it was meant to be a showstopper, more a reminder to ourselves that we need to do these things. It has been an area where we have forgotten (at times) to do that review, especially on the more substantive changes. And yes, some robustness/rigour/direction/... to our processes would be lovely. (rather than cat/chook/… herding) — billinghurst sDrewth 00:19, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Speaking entirely for myself I did not intend to provoke the situation further (and your reminder is apposite) but nonetheless the circumstance of continued uncertainty as to the "rules" of mobile/ereader is intolerable. Until such time as that basic issue is bedded down unfortunately any (no matter how kindly meant) reminder of that metastable state is likely to meet with an angst-ridden response. Until that euphoric day is attained the only bedrock case which truly counts is "does it work in HTML—in desktop mode?" And in this particular instance Jpez' solution meets with my wholehearted approval. Thereendeth the rant. AuFCL (talk) 00:31, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Copyright status of work

The Hounds of Tindalos, short story by Frank Belknap Long Originally published in Weird Tales magazine in March 1929; the copyright for this issue was not renewed. It was then reprinted in the July 1937 issue of that magazine; the copyright for this issue was not renewed. Then reprinted in 1946 in a collection of stories called "The Hounds of Tindalos"; copyright for this book (not story) was renewed. Question: is this short story still under copyright? If so then the etext for it here on Wikisource needs to be deleted. —unsigned comment by Strangenight (talk) .

For that period in the US, if a work is not copyrighted on its first edition, then that version and its editions are never under copyright. Subsequent versions would only be copyrightable if there was a literary difference to the version. — billinghurst sDrewth 20:17, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

Not Proofread to Proofread status not updating

Has there been a system hiccup somewhere? I was working on Three Thousand Selected Quotations from Brilliant Writers and noticed that three of the last four pages I processed did not change on the index page. The status on each page shows proofread as does my contributions list. Pages in question are djvu 66, 68, 69. Going in a doing a "resave" on djuv 66 did not update the status. Humbug26 (talk) 19:16, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

@Humbug26: try purging the index page, otherwise a null edit. The issue is the Index: page, not the Page: page, and it has been happening in regular random way, and not one I have been able to understand. — billinghurst sDrewth 20:20, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

I've noticed it happening for the last few months, totally randomly. It does persist, staying marked as not proofread despite purges etc and then updating for no apparent reason, sometimes after weeks have gone by… Zoeannl (talk) 06:29, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

My workaround is to remove an empty line in the footer, or anything that will create a new revision (just opening and saving a page wont do that, though that is another way of 'purging') CYGNIS INSIGNIS 06:57, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

The Clock/Purge Gadget helps most of the time, but not always. — Ineuw talk 18:12, 2 April 2016 (UTC)

Sanskrit Wikisource does not have epub and mobi download links

How do we get the cool ebug and mobi download links I see in en.wikisource in sa.wikisource.org books? Vishvas vasuki (talk) 02:21, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

MediaWiki:Gadget-WSexport.js and ensure that you have things working at toollabs:wsexport — billinghurst sDrewth 04:00, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Thank you! How can the JS be used so that the download options automatically appear to every visitor to the site? Does one need to be an administrator to make it happen? Vishvas vasuki (talk) 16:41, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Ping, please help sanskrit wikisource users have the same wonderful epub experience you have! Vishvas vasuki (talk) 05:56, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Yes. Any Mediawiki: namespace file needs someone with admin privileges. If you don't have anyone local, then ask at m:Steward requests/Miscellaneous — billinghurst sDrewth 12:45, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

New line or not?

Hi. Could someone explain why a missing new line (after template in TOC field) is making a difference, when one template is actually built on top of the other?

1. see the * in "* Extract of a Letter from Geneva"
2. Index:English_as_She_is_Spoke.djvu, see the bullet here.

Thanks— Mpaa (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

That's wiki syntax. The bulleted list is initiated when the line starts with an asterisk. If it's not on a separate line at the start of the line, then it's not rendered the same way. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:11, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

But it the same in both cases:

{{index validated date|January 2013|transcluded=yes}}* [[English As She Is Spoke/Introduction|Introduction]]

{{index transcluded|transcluded=yes}}* [[The Vampyre/Extract of a Letter from Geneva|Extract of a Letter from Geneva]]

Why the rendering is different?— Mpaa (talk) 21:15, 24 March 2016 (UTC)

No, it is not the same at all. This is a comparing "apples to oranges" situation.

The two templates differ in an important fashion internally: {{index transcluded}} has no new-line following its internal [[Category:]] coding, but {{index validated date}} always generates a free new-line after its [[Category:]] codings.

For my money I would recommend fixing {{index transcluded}} by adding an empty line just before </includeonly> AuFCL (talk) 00:09, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. @AuFCL:, what puzzles me is that {{index validated date}} is based on {{index transcluded}} (at the end of it). So the reason why there is no problem when {{index transcluded}} is used as "tail" part of another template, is still a mystery to me ... But NVM ... :-) I would appreciate if capable hands could fix it, so the two templates can be used in a consistent way wrt wikisyntax..— Mpaa (talk) 17:33, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

@Mpaa: (Overdone theatrical patience) Here are the final two lines of {{index validated date}}:

   }}{{index transcluded|transcluded={{{transcluded}}}}}
}}</includeonly><noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude>

Note the blank line between the final block of five-close-braces and the final two close-braces. That is what is saving you grief from {{index transcluded}} in this instance. AuFCL (talk) 21:18, 25 March 2016 (UTC)

Done behold —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, but the problem is not solved (try to remove the new line from Index:John_William_Polidori_-_The_Vampyre.djvu). Cheers.— Mpaa (talk) 16:58, 28 March 2016 (UTC)

Hm, weird. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:18, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Done carriage return needed to be outside of the #if statement. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:34, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Pages are displayed as thumbnails in edit mode

When opening pages for editing on this page, they are displayed as tiny icons in the upper left corner. Is there any way to correct this? — Ineuw talk 23:26, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

@Ineuw: I see external-style full url wikilinks on the page, that point to internal pages. No thumbs, no images. All appears as expected, and the links work as expected. Not seeing what you are reporting seeing. — billinghurst sDrewth 03:17, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Apologies for not clarifying those links. They were for Vol 45 images to be checked by me. When I opened them the first time, the .djvu image showed as a tiny thumbnail in the upper left corner. If opened now and display the .djvu normally, it means that I already opened them previously.

But no matter, I came across many pages like these while proofreading, and will upload a screen print when coming across them again. Also believe that this is related to User talk:Ineuw#Clearing the cache of an index page problem. The djvu Index display looses the pages' status colours. It is mentioned in that post by User:Mpaa with the paragraph beginning with: There is something weird in en.wikisource and at this point I think also more specifically to PSM. I hope it's not too confusing. — Ineuw talk 04:07, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

Main Namespace formatting v. formatting for Download as PDF

1. Header information seen on Main Namespace does not transfer to Download as PDF. PDF print version does not include author, year, publisher or location data.
2. Download as PDF ignores line spacing produced with br / tag and Enter key.

I've tried to get white space made in Namespace to transfer to Download as PDF with poor results. Download as PDF seems to honor white space that follows {{}} curly brackets or <> less-than greater-than tags but ignores that which is produced as in item #2 above. For an example of what I mean see The Free Encyclopaedia that Anyone can Edit： The Shifting Values of Wikipedia Editors, push Download as PDF and check out the differences. Any advice? calebjbaker (talk) 10:23, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

3. math tags don't render in Download as PDF. Apparently, PDF function does not reed TeX markup. For an example, see The World Within Wikipedia： An Ecology of Mind. calebjbaker (talk) 10:05, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Virginibus Puerisque and Other Papers

The table of contents is not displaying.—unsigned comment by Cygnis insignis (talk) 7:32, 9 April 2016.

To put it bluntly, the single transcluded page was simply blowing your template-expansion limits all to pieces. I have made some modifications there which I hope do not affect the cosmetics of display too much, whilst reducing the template post-expansion size from a hefty 1655424 to a more manageable 77532 bytes, and now the beast transcludes again. Build it back towards the older layout by all means, but keep an eye on just how much of a resource hog it becomes, O.K.? Theoretically the upper limit is currently 2097152 bytes. AuFCL (talk) 08:11, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

[1] —unsigned comment by Cygnis insignis (talk) 8:41, 9 April 2016‎.

Regrettably I have no idea what point you think you are making, unless it was my use of "simplify" rather than "put the overly-obese patient on severe lap-band therapy…" as a change comment? AuFCL (talk) 08:55, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

[2] —unsigned comment by Cygnis insignis (talk) 11:46, 9 April 2016.

With respect this act has become old. Either explain your point or forever forego any semblance of future assistance from this party. And how about signing your posts? AuFCL (talk) 05:52, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

not missing, just disappeared

Worked on this last night, and on some other pages but today the scans disappeared, Is this happening to anyone else. Proof that I am not dreaming — Ineuw talk 16:28, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Not disappeared, but did have instance of djvu scans showing up as thumbnails about the same time as your problem. I'm okay now. Very strange. Humbug26 (talk) 16:47, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the confirmation. For weeks I also had thumbnails, but no one believed me. :-( I suspect that it was due to the purging and compressing(?) of data on the server. Here, AuFCL (one of our minor major gods), can jump in anytime and provide us with some enlightenment. — Ineuw talk 03:21, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

P.S: Now the problem is gone, for the time being. — Ineuw talk 03:21, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

Line spacing using {{TOC row...}} template

Wondering how to create a line space between TOC entries using the {{TOC row}} template (see here). Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:01, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

The only way I know to do this is to add a blank line, like {{TOC row c|3|&nbsp;}} —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:45, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. Also, I think "Sonnets" ... "Bellinglise" entries, etc. (see here) should be inline with the "I Have a Rendezvous with Death" entry on the previous page, but it is not. I am not sure how to fix that. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:43, 17 April 2016 (UTC)

Lastly, maths at Science and Hypothesis

Could someone fix the maths formula here please? It is the last page to be validated, other than the ads. It is already transcluded. Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 11:49, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Done. ShakespeareFan has put in the formatting. --EncycloPetey (talk) 06:02, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Lastly the ads: How to insert vertical lines of text here? Zoeannl (talk) 11:41, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

It can't be done nicely. The closest would be to use {{rotate}} but this has some bugs (apparently) and also will take up the same horizontal space as if it had been regular text. I definitely recommend that you put the text at the bottom wherever it seems most reasonable. That's what I do for this situation. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:11, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

I concur with (most of) Beleg Tâl's comments above. I've left the page tagged Problematic, but consider it now proofread and format acceptable in Firefox and Chromium. AuFCL (talk) 23:15, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

More TOC help

Requesting help with the sonnets section on this page. I can't figure out how to align the text correctly. Thank you, Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:10, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

Just a small military muddle? AuFCL (talk) 03:09, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Soup sandwich. Londonjackbooks (talk) 09:45, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Maybe a variant: soap sandwich? Apologies: I completely misunderstood. Second try? AuFCL (talk) 10:48, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

My explanation may have been vague. Thanks! Londonjackbooks (talk) 11:01, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

TOC rendering in the Main is askew. Thanks ahead of time! Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:33, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Fixed—you need to use {{nop}} —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:37, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Great! Thank you. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:43, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Just a small note for future. Ironically the empty new line at the end of your comment previously would have served the same purpose as does BT's {{nop}} does now. Mediawiki keyword—I refer here to the initial | buried inside {{TOC row 1-1-1}}—behaviour can be strange like that. AuFCL (talk) 21:57, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Traffics Signs

Index:The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 (UKSI 2016-0362).pdf

Some of the PDF pages need rotating, and the OCR layer is Junk in places :(

Anyone up for doing some fixes? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:47, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

I've now got the text for page 92 onward at User:ShakespeareFan00/Sandbox/TSGRD2016, anyone want to run a Match and split=script? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:29, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

maths

Am working on my maths skills on Mechanism of the heavens. Open to critical comment. How to do the equivalent of {{pline}} on numbered equations on pg 15 and p 12? — Zoeannl (talk) 05:48, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

What is your strategy? Do you want all equation numbers to align (after the final pages are transcluded):

1. vertically (one above the other), or
2. a fixed margin from the edge of the page, or
3. centre the entire expression and let things otherwise "run ragged"?

Your various choices will affect the best answer to give to you. AuFCL (talk) 06:20, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I would like it inset from the margin, but I know nothing about the conventions of such things. Presumably there is some typographical standard for maths? — Zoeannl (talk) 06:54, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

w:Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Mathematics neatly skirts making a recommendation (more or less as if the issue is poison?) and there is always {{equation}} which lies in glorious disuse—so that I cannot even show you an example of what the output looks like on a "real" page, as opposed to its own documentation. You might do worse than that last one, enclosed in, say, <blockquote>? AuFCL (talk) 07:13, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

I think the usual way, closest to a "typographical standard", is to use the equation environment in LaTeX; see b:LaTeX/Advanced_Mathematics#Equation_numbering. Unfortunately the <math> plugin doesn't appear to support this construction so anything that works should be fine. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:31, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

Jack London story

Hi, I recently had to make a change to the Jack London article on Wikipedia, because the wrong version of a story by London had been linked to here on Wikisource. The story is "To Build a Fire" and, as may be known, there are two versions, 1902 and 1908, of this story. A listening copy of the 1908 version may be found here, and there is another copy of the 1908 version here within the Lost Face book. Since the listening copy was mistakenly linked to as a copy of the 1902 version, maybe Wikisource could acquire a 1902 version? A copy may be found at the following link: To Build a Fire (1902).  Stick to sources! Paine  07:59, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

I have moved the ogg {{listen}} to the correct version per your advice. Sounds like we need to create a {{versions}} page for the two works. Personally I know nothing about the works and for that I will ping @Londonjackbooks: who may wish to comment. Thanks for letting us know about the issue. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:46, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Yup. "To Build a Fire" (1902) first appeared in Youth's Companion (29 May 1902), and "To Build a Fire" (1908) appeared in The Century Magazine (August 1908) and subsequently in Lost Face (1910). Coincidentally, I recently read in Jack London: An American Life (2013) that Century editor Richard Watson Gilder wrote London concerning the possibility of having received "soiled goods" (biographer Earle Labor's words). London replied in part, "I am absolutely confident, that beyond the motif itself, there is no similarity of treatment whatever." I will create a versions page. Londonjackbooks (talk) 12:17, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

Thank you both very much!  Stick to sources! Paine  00:04, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Uploading IA files to Commons

Since IA seems to no longer generate djvu files, do we opt instead to save the pdf files to our computer and upload the files to Commons? Is the process of creating a pdf Index here the same as creating a djvu index? Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:58, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

IA still makes ocred pdf which can be shifted to Commons using the IA upload tool. Index creating is same, but source option has to be given as pdf instead of djvu. Hrishikes (talk) 00:02, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I've never used the IA Upload tool, but visiting the upload page, it looks like it will only upload .djvu files. I usually save the IA djvu file to my computer, and then upload to Commons. Can we not do the same with pdf files from IA? Are there any other considerations when working with pdf files? Londonjackbooks (talk) 00:53, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

The tool is for djvu by default; if djvu is absent, the tool will automatically pick up the pdf. Yes, pdf also can be downloaded and re-uploaded. But it only wastes bandwidth. Hrishikes (talk) 01:01, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the direction. Londonjackbooks (talk) 14:30, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

{{mfrac}} breaks Wikisource

Navigating to {{mfrac/doc}} (which is transcribed on the template page) or the talk page give MediaWiki internal errors, due to an "[e]xception caught inside exception handler". Can this be fixed by a more knowledgeable contributor? -Einstein95 (talk) 20:17, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

I was the last editor back in August 2015, so this is definitely not a result of a local change. N.B. This "fault" is limited to MathML mode. Setting your Preferences/Appearance/Math to "PNG images" will restore normal function again (Yes I am well aware this is probably not the answer people want to hear.)

I copied the latest version to template:mfrac on test2: where it similarly fails but at least with more detailed diagnostics (I can but guess their significance.) AuFCL (talk) 00:18, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Some general background for anybody who does not already know: {{mfrac}} was always more of an experiment in alternate—rather than ever serious standalone—template implementation. In fact every effort was made to make it as similar to the then (and still) existing {{sfrac}} in both behaviour and output.

The upshot of this is that in desperate need a bulk global substitution of mfrac→sfrac should be entirely safe if circumstances so demand.

Nevertheless if this incident turns out to the canary in the coal-mine regarding ongoing <math> developments (whoever heard of the radical idea of testing in a non-live environment? Surely the developers are aware that these changes impact the public view?) I would encourage keeping the template if only as a show-piece: "This worked once upon a time—why does it not do so any more?" AuFCL (talk) 01:53, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for saying about the fault lying with MathML mode. I have since found that the problem is limited to the use of {{mfrac}} with no parameters. -Einstein95 (talk) 11:55, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

@Einstein95: Somewhat grinding my teeth over the inappropriateness of "hiding" rather than addressing what I consider is a bug in MathML-mode-<math>, I have modified {{mfrac}} so as not to generate the error condition when called with no parameters set. For the record I consider <math>\any-style-operator{}</math> is and used-to-be legal, though perhaps degenerate code (any-operator can be any of the variants of scriptstyle, displaystyle, textstyle etc.) At worst some kind of error should be generated (as is done so for say \text{}) but not an apparent full-on application crash as is the result of encountering these. AuFCL (talk) 08:15, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Calligraphy and French

Can someone please help with the lower portion of the title page and the French part of the image captions in this work? Hrishikes (talk) 01:33, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

I would/could help, but it's unclear what it is you need to be done. — Ineuw talk 19:34, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

The blurry smudges in the image are actually writing. I found a legible scan at http://www.bobins.splrarebooks.com/collection/view/twenty-four-plates-illustrative-of-hindoo-and-european-manners-in-bengal —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:32, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

@Hrishikes: Sorry but I failed (again). I was able to read exactly what you already have, but I think that the missing text looks like the arrondissement (district), a street name and number. I also searched the web all over for another copy but found none except what you already have. In the past, I had some success when contacted a publisher by email for information or clarification. The publishing house still exists in Paris. — Ineuw talk 03:39, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

@Beleg Tâl: That was the source I used. @Ineuw: You are probably referring to Armand Colin. That publishing house was established in 1870. This book is of 1832. So A. Colin probably refers to the lithographer, Alexandre Colin. Moreover, if not the title page, at least the image captions in French should be legible to someone knowing the language. Hrishikes (talk) 14:08, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I've had a look, but the scan just doesn't have the resolution I'd need to read it. It's still too blurry. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:12, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

I know enough French to understand what is printed. My problem is exactly the same as EncycloPetey's. . . . poor resolution with insufficient highlight. As for A. Colin, it is still the same publishing house as it was in 1830 - 1832 and the chances are that they will help. Just don't mention Wikipedia or Wikisource, because I found out to my regret that commercial enterprises don't like to help free sources for free when I contacted them. — Ineuw talk 18:48, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

It seems that Beleg Tâl has already taken care of the French captions, so thanks. Would it be Rue de Montparnasse, the old address of A. Colin, in the title page? Hrishikes (talk) 15:36, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I would certainly agree "rue de ???? 35" (might be 33?) but think the missing word is too short to be "Montparnasse". I am fairly certain "rue" is all lower-case. AuFCL (talk) 17:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I got through most of it, but I couldn't figure out the word for 'gossip' used on plate 12 (it looks like 'comonites' to me but this doesn't appear to be a real word in French). I also may have missed some accents that ought to be present but are too fine to show up in the scan; someone with better French knowledge than I can probably correct this without reference to the scan. No idea about the title page though; looks like it might be "rue d' ?u(p/f)er No. 35". FOUND IT —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:31, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Brilliant! Care to share how you located that page, please? AuFCL (talk) 17:59, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

I searched for "A. Colin" "rue" in Google Books, thinking maybe another of his publications would show up. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:04, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
For what it's worth, I am (very) impressed. — Ineuw talk 19:32, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@Beleg Tâl: Filled up the village gossips plate. Can u pse confirm? Hrishikes (talk) 02:10, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion help for Cassell's Illustrated History of England/Volume 1/Chapter I

This book has chapters start and end inside pages, so I need to use section transclusion, but I cannot figure it out. Can someone help me with Chapter 1, that way I know how to do the rest of the book? If you could describe what I need to put in the pages of the index that would be great to. - Tannertsf (talk) 18:26, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

@Tannertsf: I prepared for you chapter 1 transclusion. But some words of advice:

• Don't use "names with spaces" for section references.
• Organize by creating a list of the chapters numbers with their .djvu numbers to be used for the section codes.
• Section codes without spaces don't need to be enclosed in "".
• This list is also valuable as a TOC for chapter access.
• In my scheme of things, the characters prefix of E for end of the old chapter section and B for beginning of the new chapter section as in:

  <section begin=E34 /> top of a split chapter page
  <section end=E34 /><section begin=B34 /> placed between the end of the old and new chapters.
  <section end=B34 /> bottom of split chapter page.

• One doesn't need a section code on a chapter which begins on the top of the page.
• Section codes must begin with a letter. (check out any of PSM transclusions).

Ask and you shall receive. — Ineuw talk 19:31, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much! It's very nice to have something I can go off of now. - Tannertsf (talk) 20:36, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

@Tannertsf: Personally I prefer to use section tags that align with chapter names <section begin="Chapter 1" />, and I always use tags with quotation marks wrapping the label, as it is my understanding that it more aligns with the standards and other practices. My reasoning for descriptive names is that for pages with multiple sections it is more productive. [Well, that and the fact that aligning a section name with a subpage name allows for automating transclusion.] So I disagree with Ineuw's absolutism in his advice, they are his preferences, and that is okay. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:03, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@Tannertsf: If I may add yet another detail to Ineuw and Billinghurst's points above, may I also suggest you bring up your Preference options and locate the "Editing tools for Page: namespace" section. Consider turning off (unchecking) option "Easy LST: Enable the easy section labeling syntax in the Page: namespace," unless you are already used to and rely upon using the "## section name ##" syntax. This will not affect I & B's instructions above and may reduce future potential problems to boot. This gadget has some nasty behaviour on occasion. AuFCL (talk) 00:20, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the extra input. I always wondered what that preference did, so I will disable that. I consider myself a veteran Wikisource guy but this is really hitting me hard today! :) I have always found transclusion easy, but in this case, not so much. So the advice helps. - Tannertsf (talk) 00:25, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

@Tannertsf: Whichever system you use, consistency is the key. My advise is to prepare the necessary tags beforehand. A very handy tool is a spreadsheet with which you can multiply the common elements, and use a separate column alongside for each tag value. Then, export it as a text file and just copy and paste as you create the main namespace headers. Also, add spredsheet columns for the .djvu numbers and the page numbers and record them on the spreadsheet as you go along. From this we can generate a table of contents. — Ineuw talk 03:21, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

So, @Ineuw:, I guess I can go ahead and make a spreadsheet marking when the chapters start and end and such? Would that be the next logical step for me to take? - Tannertsf (talk) 11:59, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok I have figured it out now! Thanks for all the help. - Tannertsf (talk) 14:35, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

It was my pleasure. If you need more help, let me know. — Ineuw talk 16:05, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

File upload template: obsolete copyright templates and category selection bug.

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T134463

• The public domain license selection of the file upload is no longer valid. It should be "PD-release".
• After upload, when the {{PD-release}} is saved and its category is inserted automatically, it deletes the manually selected category of Category:Instructional. — Ineuw talk 20:48, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

If someone has the user right, the knowledge, and the time, to update the Wikisource file upload template, it would be greatly appreciated. Our template is an outdated and buggy derivative of this mediawiki template. — Ineuw talk 19:54, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Issues fixed. — Ineuw talk 19:41, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

Move of an author?

Not comfortable attempting this. Note Author:Friedrich August Gotttreu Tholuck has too many "t"s in third name. Of the four WMF sites, we are the only one showing "Gotttreu" instead of "Gottreu. Humbug26 (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

I moved it, but then I noticed that Gotttreau is actually not incorrect, so I moved it back.

• Das Leben Friedrich August Gotttreu Tholuck's
• de:ADB:Tholuck, August
• w:Biographisch-Bibliographisches Kirchenlexikon has an entry called "THOLUCK, Friedrich August Gott(t)reu"
• German Wikipedia uses Gotttreau: de:w:August Tholuck
• Autorität und Glaube. Edward Bouverie Pusey und Friedrich August Gotttreu Tholuck im Briefwechsel (1825–1865) listed in dewiki bibliography

—Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:49, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts on this. My links work and it appears Wikidata is showing both versions. Humbug26 (talk) 19:37, 12 May 2016 (UTC)

Nontrivial request: Recovering unclear pdf document

(also cross-posted to Wikipedia talk:Graphics Lab)

Hello, I don't know if this is the correct forum etc. so apologies.

I'm working on a complete rewrite of w:Bengal famine of 1943 in my personal sandbox. The central document for this topic (though it's biased) is the Woodhead Commission Famine report. It's a available in pdf format here. I can save that into .txt format (hurray!), and have written a little Python program that finds keywords from a large number of similar text files and stores quotes into separate files.. however, the scan quality or the Famine Commission report is so poor that extended stretches are simply gobbledygook.

This is a nontrivial request: Is there a PhotoShop guru (or similar) who could sharpen the MANY pages into significantly better & more scannable pdfs? Not all pages could be fixed, because some show the curvature of the book pages etc., but I think many many could be improved.

I have downloaded an evaluation copy of PhotoShop etc and tried to use Sharpen and Levels or Layers whatever to make each page more machine readable, but I don't know how to do it for an entire (large!) report, and I don't know how to scan them or save them to text instead of image (printing every page and scanning each manually is obviously much too much work). I also have a family life and work etc. and learning how to do all these things would just take too much time.

Does anyone have suggestions?

In theory, this service might be valuable for other old documents scanned to pdf, but i dunno how much demand there would be for such a service.

Thanks!Lingzhi (talk) 13:37, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

• Update: User:MjolnirPants supplied a detailed answer at Wikipedia talk:Graphics Lab which suggests that my request may be prohibitively impractical... I won't delete this thread (just in case), but it is probably a closed matter. Thanks!Lingzhi (talk) 22:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

@Lingzhi: Another copy here. However, this is the report on Bengal, not the final report. The final report is here. I have added them at Wikisource: 1, 2. OCR text layer is OK. Hrishikes (talk) 03:58, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

@Hrishikes: Thanks for the info! I'm mildly embarrassed to admit that I don't know what you wrote means, and I don't know what's going on on the Wikisource pages you linked... I may ask GabrielF for his opinion some time in the next few days, since another editor said GabrielF seems to be The Man... thanks again!Lingzhi (talk) 14:33, 15 April 2016 (UTC)

• I want to point out to anyone interested (likely about two people over the whole project) that I just got the ping from the link to my userpage today, 35 days later. Hence my late response. Also, I wanted to clarify what Lingzhi said about my answer: The problem was that the original document was a high resolution, bitonal bitmap. That means every pixel was either pure black or pure white. That's why contrast, levels and such made no difference. My longer answer, for anyone who's curious, can be found here. MjolnirPants (talk) 14:06, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Three Thousand Selected Quotations from Brilliant Writers

After three months (and a little bit), I finally finished proofing this project. I have attempted transclusion: got the first part, index of authors, and index of subjects done; however, there is too much for the "Burning Words..." part. I got the dreaded template limit notice, which crashes somewhere in the "Ministers" subject. Methinks, the unknown-to-me part needed is sections. I have read and studied and still can't figure it out. Not yet. Can someone go into this and fix? I'll go back and check in a few days how this should've been done. Then I'll know for any possible next time for this kind of project. Humbug26 (talk) 22:12, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

What was your plan, to include the entire work from A-Z in the Burning Words part? In that case, I think the book would be especially good with a page for each subject since then you can have easy tight sections. I am happy to do the transclusion for you. - Tannertsf (talk) 22:52, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

I wasn't sure just what the ultimate plan should have been; alphabetical breaks or subject breaks. There are two letters not included, and a couple of subjects have only a couple of quotes. If you are willing to take on the transclusion of this part of the project, however you think appropriate, I'll be grateful. Thank you. Humbug26 (talk) 02:10, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Most definitely break it down to component parts … work of that length as 600 scrollable web pages, <shudder> readability alone! You will know the work best, though a quick look at the ToC would seem that an A-Z breakdown may be suitable. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:47, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

I think either letter sections or subject sections would both be good options. But, with 600 pages, that would be around 20-25 pages of content on each page. Subject would have more links, but we could make it look nice and work nice. So, Humbug26, I'll leave it up to you to pick out what type of transclusion to do since you know the book more than anyone else. Then I will start on it! - Tannertsf (talk) 09:34, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Two things. First, Billinghurst: I agree that it seems to make perfect sense to go with alphabetic breakout; second, Tannertsf, you did offer your help. As I have put "anchor+" against the alpha-letter AND we can use "compactTOCalpha" to go to an alphabet area, my decision, reluctant as it is, is to ask for a subject breakout. We currently have no way of getting to say the subject of "Meekness" or "Merit", both of which have 2 quotes each versus the subject "Christ" which has 48 pages of quotes. I did put in DJVU page links but see it doesn't transfer to transclusion, which is not a good thing. (There must be a reason why it doesn't; then why have it? Is there not something that does work?) Tannertsf, I'm sure you have your game plan in place for subjects, as you spoke for that decision in a nice way. Humbug26 (talk) 17:15, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Alphabetical is fine to me as well. I am happy to start it if you give the go ahead. - Tannertsf (talk) 17:20, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Alphabetical is okay with me as well. Go ahead. Humbug26 (talk) 19:22, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok I have done the first few letters and set up a rudimentary TOC. This would be a perfect way to learn sectional transclusion: if you take a look at the pages which switch into different letters, you will notice that those pages have a section tag marking the part of per se "B", and the other tag is marking the second part, which would be "C". These tags are truly handy, and if you follow what I have done with the first few letters you should be able to go through the rest on your own. Feel free to ask for help if you try and don't succeed, but I want you to take this as a learning opportunity. - Tannertsf (talk) 00:41, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll take a look at this maybe tomorrow or the next day. I just spent the last 3+ hours upgrading from Win8.1 to Win10. I'm still trying to figure out my way around. Humbug26 (talk) 04:29, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

Much better. Thank you, Tannertsf, for your help on this. And no, I don't want to do any more like this; there's just so much fun a person can handle at one time. Humbug26 (talk) 18:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

Table over page break won't transclude correctly.

Having reworked the template to what I THOUGHT was now the correct approach, I went to review the transclusion using <pages> and found it had busted completely. Short Titles Act 1896/First Schedule/6 Ann. Can someone explain in very simple terms what went wrong, as I am getting frustrated at having to work around a pedantic parser. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:21, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

The current revision looks fine to me. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:21, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

The only problem I see is that each page is identified as [page] instead of by its page number. The table itself looks OK. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:17, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

And when I attempted to fix it (see the history) It refused to behave, making me wonder if there's something more seriously wrong with the underlying templates, which only manifests when <pages> is used vs direct transclusion of each page. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:55, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

This would of course be academic if there was a SANE way to run tables across page boundaries...ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:55, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

What's even more puzzling is that on a previous set of pages trancluded elsewhere , the issue of the table formationg goin haywire doesn't occur. - The problem template seems to be {{Statute table/titles/entry}} which should probably be re-written because it's quite intensive on the parser currently. In the process of documentating at the momentShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:59, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm also of the view that {{Short-title}}} should be re-built as Lua, as it's reaching the limit of what can be done in template markup. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:07, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

This is what you get for presenting—as having a problem—an item in which you have subsequently attempted to mask the very problem you ought to be demonstrating—hoping for general assistance.

The prior version using <pages> was attempting to build a table from the output produced by:

{{statute table/titles/header}}
<pages index="Public General Statutes 1896.djvu" from=36 to=37 />
{{statute table/titles/footer}}

—which fails due to the resulting table consisting of only one row of three cells (you clearly expected it to produce many more rows but in fact the entire <pages> transclusion populates the rightmost cell due to LST enclosing its output in <div> </div> tags. The solution is to take a lesson from the prior chapter and rearrange your transclusion such that <pages> delivers only entire table structures (i.e. including table header, content and footer) as a unit.

Also, should not "6 Anne, c. 11." be included under both chapters, as it equally suits both banners "6 Ann" as well as "Pre Union"?

Finally, EncycloPetey's point above regarding page numbers may be partially addressed (if you want to persist in the current path) by substituting each, for example {{page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/36}}, with {{page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/36|num=16}} etc. AuFCL (talk) 15:33, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

I did that here - The_Public_General_Statutes_(1896)/Table_VI (which has a simmilar issue) and nothing happened, I.E no page numbers. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:48, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Really? No, you didn't. I recommended use of the {{page}} template. What you did was to directly transclude individual Page: space pages. Either of the following approaches works in this situation and both generate the structures necessary for mediawiki:PageNumbers.js to do its magic and generate the page number displays:

Method 1

{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/516|num=496}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/517|num=497}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/518|num=498}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/519|num=499}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/520|num=500}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/521|num=501}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/522|num=502}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/523|num=503}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/524|num=504}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/525|num=505}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/526|num=506}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/527|num=507}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/528|num=508}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/529|num=509}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/530|num=510}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/531|num=511}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/532|num=512}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/533|num=513}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/534|num=514}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/535|num=515}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/536|num=516}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/537|num=517}}
{{Page|Public General Statutes 1896.djvu/538|num=518}}

Method 2

<pages
 index="Public General Statutes 1896.djvu"
 from ="516"
 to   ="538"
/>

For I hope obvious reasons I recommend use of Method 2. AuFCL (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Can you give the exact differences, because the idiot I am I having a hard time seeing the issue, is it because the Pre union pages have the header in the 'body' rather than seperate? Also do we need an option on <pages> to supress the div generation so that this is not an issue in the future? BTW I've got NO objections to someone re-working the templates or the pages so they work consistently in line with what's SUPPOSED to happen. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:38, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

I tested something... Pages 35 and 36 in structural terms should be identical, (the entry template embeds the |- row, marker. So it would seem to solely be about how <pages> works. Is there an easy way to suppress the div so that what pages generates isn't as pre-baked, raw=yes param maybe?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:44, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

A side issue is that the current approach overloads the transclusion limits a bit.. There's probably a better way of doing it :(, if someone wants to write a script to re-work the formatting to something simpler, I don't have any objections. It's a shame there isn't a subst function that gives you the 'output' (like Lua does) over a direct substitution, because for a large number of the table based works I've done it would be rather helpful, in that in quite a few instances what the template is nominaly parsing only needs to be parsed once and intelligently subst, rather than what the the current direct subst does. for all the scripting possible Wikitext is still remarkably static.16:00, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Another aside Template:Statute table/entry and some of it's relations have reached the limits of maintainability in their complexity. They really need an overhaul :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:00, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

Index:Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes.djvu Tables again

I'm now rather dissapointed. For performance reasons I was reworking the formatting on the efforts I'd made in terms of the index portion of this work, so that it wasn't calling a template for each row of the table which would eventually hit the transclusion limits. However in re-working the formatting, I seem to hit the SAME issues with spanned tables that I've come up against on previous efforts.

Comparing Page:Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes.djvu/365 and Page:Chronological Table and Index of the Statutes.djvu/366, the latter seems to include some undesired whitespace, even though structurally the pages should be simmilar.

Can someone that's more experienced please come up with a "long-term" fix? Whilst there are workarounds such as using <includeonly> portions vs actual headers, this doesn't seem to behave consistently.—unsigned comment by ShakespeareFan00 (talk) .

Without more specifics, I don't notice any problems with whitespace on page 366. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:33, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Need a short, left aligned heavy line in table

The fourth row from the bottom of the table of this page Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 51.djvu/780 starts with a heavy line. Tried using {{bar|2}}, but I couldn't bold it so, I am looking for help for any acceptable solution. — Ineuw talk 01:25, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Unicode? AuFCL (talk) 02:13, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Went through hundreds of Unicode characters of BabelMap, and there is a thick "minus" sign ➖➖ but they are too short, and there would be a gap with two side by side. Perhaps, I should leave it as is? — Ineuw talk 06:28, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks AuFCL, didn't realize that you already corrected it. — Ineuw talk 06:30, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Unicode block (hexadecimal) 2500 through 259F has a very useful line-drawing/block-graphic set which largely "fit together." I simply looked through that until I found some likely matches. AuFCL (talk) 06:50, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Directly Trannscluded pages in mainspace

Following on from a previous concern, How do we find pages that are directly transcluded, as opposed to using {{page}}? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:44, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

This works. AuFCL (talk) 12:12, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Not as many as I thought. Anyone want to consider adding them to a to-do list?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:31, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

I have transcluded pages that way in the past. Made a note in one work that "other [transclusion] methods render 'blank' pages in PDF conversion." Not sure if that still applies? Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:54, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Transclusion of tables on several pages

I just made the index of Pekinese Rhymes/Index as a long table spanning several pages (is it the correct way? Should I have used the TOC templates?)

Each page is individually OK, but when I look at the end result on the link above, there are two problems:

• The first line of each page is not shown in the transclusion
• The page shortcut does not work and links to https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/ , apart for the first page

Could someone with more experience on transclusion look at what I did wrong?

Koxinga (talk) 18:30, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

You were so close! Unfortunately the Help: page for this is slightly misleading and so I won't refer you there. To address your issues in order:

• To display the first line of each page (in transclusion) requires a little sleight-of-hand: add |- after the {{nop}} at the start of the page content proper. This fixes the "first line" problem but wipes out the insertion point where mediawiki:PageNumbers.js inserts the page links (which kind of addresses your second point.)
• To reestablish a structure PageNumbers.js above can work with, rearrange the last line and footer of each transcluded table page (except the last) from:

  |-
  <!-- content end/footer start -->
  |}
  <!-- footer end -->
  

to instead:

{{nop}}
<!-- content end/footer start -->
|-
|}
<!-- footer end -->

Mad as it might seem the {{nop}} marks the point (in the transcluded result) at which the "next page" link will eventually be established. Yes it is a confusing mess of compromises!

Please check if the current result is per your expectations. AuFCL (talk) 02:03, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks a lot! The page link is one line above the actual first line, but that's ok. I did try to follow Help:Page_breaks#Tables_across_page_breaks, but without really understanding the {{nop}} template usage, and as you said, it does not really work. It would be a good idea to update it.

Koxinga (talk) 06:19, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

The "page link is one line above the actual first line" is the result of the compromise I tried to describe before. If you choose a page link and hover your mouse pointer over it the secret is revealed. Note the start of the greyed area indicating the extent of the sub-page starts at the end of the prior page...now where did that second {{nop}} go? Same spot!

To forestall the question "why does the page link not start at the other {{nop}}, the one at the top of the actual page?" sadly you will find that by the time the final HTML has been prepared the parser has completely eliminated all trace of it. In effect that is the base problem (remember those page shortcuts back to Main page?) all over again in another form. (Yes this explanation is slightly glib. The proper answer is even messier and might even involve impolitic language.) AuFCL (talk) 07:03, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

@AUFcl- That may help explain why some of my table code wasn't rendering right, however confusingly the above tail-nopping is NOT what the current help says you are supposed to do with tables over multiple pages. As I've said elsewhere it's very confuding for new users and needs a long term soloution.  :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:45, 29 May 2016 (UTC)

O.K. Might as well lay out the full horror. In the most general case all "intermediate" pages in a long-spaning-table-transclusion require three insertions of {{nop}}:

1. one just at the top of the content section (really protecting the necessary but invisible new-line which everybody forgets is essential for wikitable (|-, |+ or | etc.) recognition;
2. one just at the end of the content section (provides a break in table flow where the next page's link will be later rendered); and
3. one just at the top of the footer section (new-line protection as above.) This last can frequently be omitted if no visible footer content (e.g. page number) is present. A real empty line works here as well but as some "clean-up" scripts remove this I personally dislike that approach.

The first and third cases above "disappear" having served their marker purpose to the parser and leave no remnant in the final HTML. Case 2 usually transforms (processed via MediaWiki:Proofreadpage_pagenum_template) into a special hidden span carrying sufficient information for MediaWiki:PageNumbers.js to later construct the page number link.

Note that none of the above usages correspond precisely to that of "normal" {{nop}} usage at the bottom of a page ending with a complete paragraph, and so could be viewed as technical abuses of the spirit of that template. AuFCL (talk) 00:20, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Based on the above I boldy updated - Help:Page_breaks but would appreciate you reviewing BEFORE stuff breaks further.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:37, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

I don't agree with the assessment that there are three requirements for {{nop}} in tables. I believe there is only case (1), and in my experience with tables, (2) and (3) are not of value, and may in fact be problematic. Noting that for your example 3, a hard return suffices, it is just a requirement for the table close to be on a new line. {{nop}} is a "no operation" that basically holds the shape of the page. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:01, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

I agree with every step of this logic—except the very conclusion. The remaining problem is that that hard return is invisible to most editors; both on "real" pages and in Help:. Even a dummy HTML comment (or if you prefer, a self-closing <wiki/>) would provide the necessary visibility. However, lets not change anything for now and see if the current instructions are still misread (as I expect they will be.) AuFCL (talk) 08:08, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Also, as the Help: pages currently stand I predict that accurately following the instructions laid down will result in PageNumbers.js creating a page link for the first, and only the first page in each full-table sequence, due to the resulting table structure leaving no suitable hooks (</td></tr><span>...</span><tr> worketh not—yes that is meta sarcasm) in which to insert the all-essential-but-invisible page-link-spans I (tried but evidently failed to) describe above. AuFCL (talk) 09:38, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

What you've said in the Help , doesn't accord with what you told me, and others have updated some of my efforts to, namely to put a |- directly after the {{nop}} on intermediate pages. Can we have ONE consistent approach please? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:41, 1 June 2016 (UTC)

Tables

Is there anyone that knows how to create the remaining tables for this book: Index:South African Geology - Schwarz - 1912.djvu. I am not sure if I should just to Wikitables or find a way to make them more similar to the book. Any help would be appreciated. --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:39, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

ae ligature with Umlaut/diaeresis

On this page and the following pages, the word 'Faroe' is written using an ae-ligature (æ) with diaeresises. Is it possible that the printer was using this instead of ǣ? I can't find this character and am wondering if it is even part of Unicode. --Tobias1984 (talk) 17:24, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

I don't know what the intent of the printer was, but the character is æ̈. Unicode provides for arbitrary combinations of base character with diacritic through combining characters.--Prosfilaes (talk) 18:47, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

@Prosfilaes: Thanks! I really couldn't find the character anywhere. Where or how did you find it? --Tobias1984 (talk) 18:50, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

It's æ plus a combining diaeresis (U+0308). I'm afraid I don't have a user-friendly explanation of how I produced it.--Prosfilaes (talk) 19:02, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Timm vogt

If anyone can help me find anything on Timm Vogt born 1789 in Schleswig-Holstein Germany. He marryed Margaretha Thodt--they both left Germany (Departure was Aug. 31 1856 and Arrival Sept.16 1856 New York.They were Residence of Davenport Iowa on March 3 1858..Timm died Oct. 15 1861----I;m trying to find Timm Vogts parents and noth9ing comes up--and the same on Margaretha Thodt...There childre who were born in Schleswig-Holstein Germany MArie Katharina Vogt 1816-1901--------son John Christan Vogt 1822-1905---Anna Vogt 1829-1887----Magdalena Helena (Lena) Oct 2 1831. Thank you so much---Yvonne Vogt----I hope I can find someone to help me---someone told me about this site and I;m trying so hard to find my family-Thanks again Yvonne72.169.80.133 16:20, 7 June 2016 (UTC)Y

No intention to offend, just clarify. Schleswig-Holstein was Danish until 1864. Perhaps the information should be searched for in Copenhagen. — Ineuw talk 17:17, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Templatescript gadget OCR cleanup

Two minor adjustments are needed in the User:Pathoschild/templatescript.js. The script does not eliminate the spaces surrounding hyphens and mdashes. Is this adjustment can be made locally? — Ineuw talk 08:19, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Umm. Want to try for local MediaWiki:TemplateScript/proofreading.js (see variable pageCleanup: line 198 and following…)? AuFCL (talk) 08:33, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I am already negotiating with Pathoschild to check why my changes are not working. — Ineuw talk 05:26, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Moved from Scriptorium and merged with related issues

Proofread tools gone from edit menu

Did some change go through in the past half hour?

When editing in the Page namespace, I can no longer access the "Proofread" option, which includes the much needed button to enlarge the source file image. Also, the special characters menu and associated items are all showing up inside the left-hand edit window instead of across the top. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:14, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

It seems to be back now, but was gone for quite a while. Anyone have a guess why? Or had the same issue? --EncycloPetey (talk) 07:58, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Nope. Tools are gone again. --EncycloPetey (talk) 08:11, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

The Proofread Tools in my left sidebar weren't working for me for a while this morning. They vanished when I clicked "Show changes" at the bottom of my screen. Then they came back. Weird. Outlier59 (talk) 11:11, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Gone again. Guess I'll go do something else for awhile. Outlier59 (talk) 11:18, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Also having page editing problems and posted about it HERE Perhaps if we post the circumstances, this may help to troubleshoot the issue quicker. — Ineuw talk 17:58, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

For bug issues it is probably worth talking about which skin you are using, and which tool bar you are utilising. I see no issues with old toolbar, and in monobook. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:30, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: Thanks for the reminder. Unfortunately, changing the skin to monobook, did not change the behaviour. — Ineuw talk 05:16, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘

I use vector and the enhanced toolbar. The problem does not always appear. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:44, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Never mind the last update to mediawiki software, the previous release required me to (re)enable option "Show edit toolbar" in Preferences/Editing/Editor to restore proper operation under the Vector skin in Firefox. Thus far I have not observed any of the complaints above (#invoke superstition of choice.) To clarify: I currently have both "Show edit toolbar" and "Enable enhanced editing toolbar" enabled; but "Enable wizards for inserting links, tables as well as the search and replace function" disabled. AuFCL (talk) 04:53, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi! I don't manage to reproduce these issues. Could you please follow the steps described in this procedure and put the result here (or better in the phabricator ticket). Tpt (talk) 09:13, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

The MediaWiki update was on June 21st. I don't think any of us had problems that day. @Ineuw: could your edits in this series -- [3] have anything to do with this? Outlier59 (talk) 12:21, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

The overall proofreading.js module was disconnected/disabled when I made the changes. Also, each of the edits refer to separate modules. More importantly for everyone who has a particular problem, the bug report site wants each issue to be reported separately with pertinent details, OS, browser, etc. — Ineuw talk 15:04, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

Strange happenings when using 'Show preview'

Whenever I click to preview in edit mode, my layout changes from over/under to side by by side, with the enhanced editing toolbar disappearing. I wonder if this is happening to others as well? — Ineuw talk 05:30, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Uploaded this image to show what's happening File:Change of edit layout.jpg. — Ineuw talk 05:36, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

I haven't had that particular problem, but was having a similar looking issue today, as described in Wikisource:Scriptorium#‎Proofread tools gone from edit menu. --EncycloPetey (talk) 08:01, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the link (may I use EP?). I suspected that it may have been caused by a newly activated script, but I was wrong. This happens only after proofreading, and then previewing a page. It seems that it is related to a change on a page. It does not happen if the page is not disturbed. Not that this info helps any of us to resolve the issue. — Ineuw talk 17:53, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

It also happens to me with Show changes after making a change. Normally I have a list of Page tools in my sidebar (Add header, Add footer, Clean up OCR, etc.) when I'm editing page space. That list comes from User:Outlier59/common.js -- which is obviously a javascript file link, but I have no idea what it does or means. I don't know javascript. I was told to add that page soon after I started editing here. In my Preferences (Appearance tab) it applies to all skins I use. It looks like something MediaWiki manages. EncycloPetey has a .css page (no .js page) and Ineuw has a .js page and a .css page. So it doesn't seem like something in our own local settings. The skins are coming from MediaWiki. Should I post a question at mw:Project:Support_Desk? Frankly, I probably wouldn't understand the answer.... Outlier59 (talk) 23:24, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

@Mpaa: Do you have any idea what's causing this problem? Outlier59 (talk) 23:50, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

@Outlier59: It's definitely not local! The periodic changes in the core software and the extensions that support the needs of various wikis, do have hiccups from time to time, and it's not the first or the last time. I do have some familiarity with the process to report the issue, and the more people report problems in this post, the more it helps our javascript deities at Wikimedia. (Tlaloc of the Aztecs excluded). THIS PAGE indicates that there was a new version installed on June 21. — Ineuw talk 23:53, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

OK, I'll try editing again tomorrow. Mpaa, very sorry to bother you needlessly. Outlier59 (talk) 00:22, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘

Hi! I don't manage to reproduce these issues. Could you please follow the steps described in this procedure and put the result here (or better in the phabricator ticket). Tpt (talk) 09:13, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

@Tpt: I updated the bug report with info about the OS and the browsers. A separate report is needed for each issue specifying the OS and the Browser & version. — Ineuw talk 15:58, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

@Outlier59: Just to be helpful. Your installation of the proofreading tool in common.js and your assumption about the tool's main code location are both correct. Currently, the tool doesn't appear in my sidebar either, and common.css has nothing to do with the sidebar tools. — Ineuw talk 16:16, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

It would be important to all who experience problems to specify the OS and the browser + version. In my case all of these problems come from Firefox. I tried the same with Chrome and everything works. If anyone has problems, please list the OS and browser + version here, or create a new bug report if the problem is not the same as task T138554. This bug report was only in relation to page layout changes in Firefox 48.01b and 48.02b. Now, I will have to file another bug report about the missing Pathoschild Page tools. — Ineuw talk 21:27, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

layout change when previewing in Firefox

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T138554

missing side bar proofreading tools in Firefox.

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T138632

@Ineuw: I think you're right about this coming from the MediaWiki update. See [4] and [5]. Someone "made some edit stashing changes in the wikitext editor, which does stashing in the middle of editing." That's where we're seeing problems -- in the middle of editing. So it'll probably just sort itself out in a week or so. Outlier59 (talk) 15:53, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Douay Rheims Bible

I'd like to revive work on https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(Douay-Rheims) Firstly, from what I gather, it hasn't been worked on since 2009, but is in some kind of archive state, is that correct?

I want to delete what's there and start again. I have reasons for this, which I can explain.

Also, a project like this, I haven't worked on anything mediawiki ever before, and I need a really simple beginner's guide. "Editing wikisource for dummies", teaching from scratch, no prior knowledge assumed.

It's hard to know where to start. —unsigned comment by User:DavidPorter65 (talk) .

Your first stop if you want to learn how to edit Wikisource should be Help:Beginner's guide to Wikisource, and especially if you want to start fresh, Help:Beginner's guide to adding texts.

I'd discourage the idea of "delete what's there and start again". A better way would be to start the proofreading process separately, and if your added version is similar enough to the version we've started on, we can merge them. On the other hand, if you have a good reason to get rid of what we've got so far, we can have a discussion. There are a couple of us (me and User:Outlier59 for example) who are slowly trying to improve WS's Bible translation collection and I'd be happy to hear your rationale and help you out. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 22:35, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

@Beleg Tâl: I'll put some comments on User talk:DavidPorter65. -- Outlier59 (talk) 23:27, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Inter-wiki help needed

Hello! I am from ta.wikisource and contributing for the past 6 months. You people having vast experiences and i hope you will guide me. I created nearly 3 lakh index pages with google OCR method.Now iam focusing on proofreading. Forthat, i am asking aa question. How can i move the first line of OCRed text as a Header of a proofread page?--Info-farmer (talk) 17:09, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

Can you identify a particular page that needs to have a header? I looked at several pages of your text, and none of them has content to go into a header. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:29, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

the page which contains its first line(212 அகத்திணைக் கோள்கைகள்) to be moved as header.(kindly press + at proofread tools)--Info-farmer (talk) 02:09, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

You can enable showing header and footer fields at ta:சிறப்பு:Preferences. Once you have done that, you can add text to the header field. I have already done so at ta:Page:அகத்திணைக் கொள்கைகள்.pdf/230 so that you can see. (You can also wrap the header text with <noinclude>these tags</noinclude> to accomplish the same effect.) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:49, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

That page also has footnotes. If you need help with those as well, please ask. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:42, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks indeed. Is it possible to do the work (Header and footer) by automation or is there any tools (gadgets) available to do proofreading works? --Info-farmer (talk) 15:58, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

There should be a header and footer field if you edit ta:Index:அகத்திணைக் கொள்கைகள்.pdf; this can auto-populate the headers and footers of pages when you create them. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:13, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

I tried at ta:Index:அகத்திணைக் கொள்கைகள்.pdf. But i am unable to understand the method of auto-population. Will you please give a model index page of your book.--Info-farmer (talk) 16:33, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

It auto-populates when a page is created. Unfortunately, it looks like all the pages in this particular index are already created, so it won't work for this one. An example where you can try creating a page to see how it works would be Index:Gilbert Original Plays.djvu. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:39, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

I checked with many of our indexes that auto-populate is not working. There are many hurdles like this in our emerging community which can be rectified by you and all. If possible please make screencasts to improve our Indian language wikisource projects. I checked with other Indian language wikisources.Thanks and bye--Info-farmer (talk) 17:15, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Translated Letters

I’m working on the Jonathan Swift 19-volume set, which was printed in 1801. The volumes include a number of letters, some of which appear in both the original language (French) and an English version. The editor of the set is identified, as are the several editors who proceeded him. No translator of the letters is identified. Thus, the person who did the translations of the letters could be one of the editors, or someone now unknown. These letters are appearing with a big warning that there may be a copyright violation because the translator isn't identified. I tried adding the translation codes to the letters, but that didn't solve the problem. I tried making the name of the translator "Unknown (translation was completed before 1801)," but all that did was create a new author page for this poor person whose name we do not know. What else can be done to satisfy the copyright monitor? Here is one of the letters, and the following letter shows the violation warning. If you show me what to do with the first letter, I will change them all to comply with the requirements. Thank you! Susanarb (talk) 04:29, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

@Susanarb: This did the trick although it is ugly. Let me search for something a little better... —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:32, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

@Susanarb: Convert those translators to override_translators and we can get rid of those ugly redlinks. Does that help? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:34, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Well, I think so - the nasty warning message is gone and there's no more redlink. If there is another preferred method, please let me know, but this will work for now. Thank you! Susanarb (talk) 04:43, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

Section transclusion not working as expected

Hi, I'm learning how to transclude sections, and I can't see what I'm doing wrong. In accordance with the instructions at Help:Transclusion, I have a section tag at Page:Copley 1844 A History of Slavery and its Abolition 2nd Ed.djvu/30 marking out the start of section III of the book. Then at A History of Slavery and its Abolition/Section 2 I've inserted the tosection="Section III" attribute. Yet on Section 2 I get the whole page transcluded, including the beginning of Section 3. Thanks in advance for any help, MartinPoulter (talk) 19:42, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

The parameter tosection indicates the last section that you want to transclude, not the first section you want to not transclude. The way you have it currently, it will transclude the contents of page 30 up to and including "Section III". Instead, you will want to create a section before that and use that as the tosection. For example, I will usually take the last paragraph of section 2 and call it "Section II end" or something, and then transclude tosection="Section II end". —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:15, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. Thanks a lot. MartinPoulter (talk) 21:14, 5 July 2016 (UTC)

Question about adding a work

Hi I'd like to ask if it is possible to add this online book to wikisource. The author has added a permissions note which is this. The link to the work is also below.

Permissions Note
Permission to reproduce or copy this book in whole or in part for personal or educational purposes, including book review articles, is hereby given on the condition that (1) this entire Permissions Note be included with the copied text; (2) that the text or diagrams not be altered in any way or added to; and (3) that it be clearly identified as follows: Reproduced from Moses, Paul, and Swedenborg: Three Steps in Rational Spirituality by Leon James, an online textbook published on the Web in 1999 at this address and updated in 2007: https://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/leonj/leonpsy/instructor/gloss/moses.html


The book may be used for educational purposes, but may not be placed in the public domain. Any commercial reproduction, redistribution, publication or other use by electronic means or otherwise, is prohibited without written permission from the author.

Jpez (talk) 05:44, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

No. meta:Resolution:Licensing policy does not allow us to include works that can not be edited or can only be used for limited ("personal or educational", in this case) purposes.--Prosfilaes (talk) 08:23, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

Line of text with two stacked words

I'm pretty sure there's a template to deal with this situation -- and probably a blurb in some help section somewhere -- but I can't find it.

I'm working on this page: Page:Aircraft Accident Report for 1972 Sacramento Canadair Sabre accident.pdf/26.

This particular page is a government form; 3/4 of the way down the page, there's a section talking about the effective date of the form, and there's two sets of dates in there, stacked vertically. It looks a bit like this:

                                      12:30 9-23-72    15:30 9-23-72
   This certificate is effective from 12:30 9-24-72 to 15:30 9-24-72 inclusive and is subject to cancellation at any time [....]

How do I transcribe these "stacked" values? They're really in-line with the rest of the text, and I'd like to retain that. Technically I could probably do something like 12:30 9-23-72/12:30 9-24-72 but that's not entirely legible and more ambiguous than the original.

Thanks. Mukkakukaku (talk) 13:30, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

It would probably be best to put them in a table. For example, see what I did with this page to get the names stacking appropriately. Simon Burchell (talk) 14:00, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

I kind of tried that, but the values are in the middle of a sentence that is part of a paragraph. The whole thing is a government form. The original read This certificate is effective from ____ to ____ inclusive and is subject to cancellation at any time.... and the person who filled out the form happened to put two dates in each blank. I'm trying to represent this, but it really doesn't lend itself to tables. I tried using CSS to "float" the tables and then decided that there was probably an easier solution that I was overlooking.

I did use tables as you suggested elsewhere in the page, at the "signature" section on the bottom to get the fields to align, but I don't think it'll work for these dates. Thanks, Mukkakukaku (talk) 14:58, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

I think {{Dual line}} is probably the template you're looking for. Alternatively, {{Sfrac nobar}}. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:07, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Yep. {{Dual line}} did the trick! Thanks! Mukkakukaku (talk) 15:15, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Handling reprints

I am nearly at the point of transcluding Index:The Rainbow, Lawrence, 1921 reprint.djvu. That is a scan of a 1921 reprint of a 1915 edition. Which of those years should I put in the year= parameter of the {{header}} template? BethNaught (talk) 15:45, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Edition year counts, not reprint year. Hrishikes (talk) 16:12, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. BethNaught (talk) 17:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Page:The_Adventures_of_Tom_Sawyer.djvu/27 And others.

I've test formatted this, using an overfloat and it just well, to put bluntly, looks awful.

Suggestions on how to get a good layout would be appreciated, as I'm not sure you can do DTP style 'wraping' around an image in HTML5/CSS. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:35, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

So if you cut the image in half horizontally, right under the word "Tom!", you can put the top half of the image as a regular image on the page, and then the bottom "half" floated left, which will allow the words to wrap around it on the right. It will also allow the words to wrap as needed around the bottom of the image once they exceed the height of the illustration on transclusion. (I'd attempt it myself, but my tablet doesn't have any image manipulation programs other than Paint on it.) --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:50, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Old issue; been solved before. Try {{flow under}} and related. AuFCL (talk) 23:19, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Best way to format hanging indent?

I'm trying to figure out the best way to format a hanging indent for this page: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:Relief_Society_Magazine_1.1.djvu/7. I tried using the {{gap}} template, but it left more spaces than regular paragraphs. Is there a good way to do this? Thanks. Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:20, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Maybe the hanging indent template? {{hi}}? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 18:24, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I also don't see any hanging indent on that page. Do you mean the indented section? For that I would use {{left margin}}. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 18:25, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, you're correct, it's not an hanging indent, it's a margin. Thank you! Rachel Helps (BYU) (talk) 18:38, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

@Rachel Helps (BYU): we don't indent paragraphs. Instead we have a double hard return to create a paragraph space. Explained in Wikisource:Style guide. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:44, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Special:Import stops working

I wonder why I keep getting the message "Import failed: Could not open import file". when attempting to import something from Old Wikisource. Need someone to fix it.--Jusjih (talk) 01:45, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Several points:

1. Are you sure this should be posted here, rather than at (say) WS:AN? Most readers of this discussion lack the higher authorisation to be at all familiar with importation and thus any answers (including this one) are likely to be guesswork at best (or meaningless to the other consumers.)
2. What did you actually do? If special:export/save/import cycle, have you viewed the XML dump and verified it is (reasonably) valid? How many revisions were involved? Too many at once? If another utility was used, which? Is that working elsewhere?
3. When did this last work, and on what wikis? Have your rights changed since then? Do you need to enable a right or rights group (e.g. transwiki importers) you normally leave dormant?
4. Finally recall that the current version of mediawiki (1.28.0-wmf.13) was only installed here a couple of days ago. Whilst not mentioned amongst the core changes, undiscovered bugs rarely are… technically even ancient bugs like phab:T8646 are still "open"… AuFCL (talk) 04:45, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Plus giving the live example would be helpful to see if it can be reproduced. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:30, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

And it will need to be a fix through a phabricator: request, as there is nothing that we can do to resolve. — billinghurst sDrewth 07:41, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Drawing a very long bow: phab:T140206? AuFCL (talk) 07:51, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Framley_Parsonage/Chapter_25

I need some help here. I'm still a bit fuzzy on section transclusions. I was trying to follow the setup as in previous proofreading efforts in this book, but somehow I'm still not being quite successful. Before I go any further into this, will someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong. Humbug26 (talk) 18:18, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Cannot see anything wrong.— Mpaa (talk) 20:14, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

It's weird. When I first when to the page, I saw a bit of chapter 26 transcluded in with 25. But then I refreshed and it worked fine. I don't understand what's going on so I'm going to not touch it. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 20:40, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you both for looking at this. The original problem was that the first little bit of Chapter 26 was showing at the bottom of Chapter 25. Even though I clock-purged the index page several times, over more than one day, it didn't seem to clear. Then I thought that because I hadn't "finished" section begins/ends for Chapter 26 (today) that it would show the first bit. But when I sectioned for Chapter 27, it still didn't clear the problem, even again clock-purging the index page. So, whatever happened in the meantime, cleared my concern. Again, thanks. Humbug26 (talk) 20:54, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned page(s)?

Just tripped over this by accident: Page:John F. Kennedy Choate Studies Letter - NARA - 192825.tif

It looks like a regular page transcription... but it has no Index associated with it. It's got an image, so clearly it's associated with something over in commons. What's going on?

-- Mukkakukaku (talk) 20:39, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Just made an Index. But I am not even sure what the standard practise is in this case, as you can transclude directly in Main ns even without an index. Others might explain better.— Mpaa (talk) 08:40, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Create the index as to use <pages> needs an index page. It is a manual creation rather than with <pagelist>. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:49, 7 August 2016 (UTC)

Page:The New Church - What, How, Why .djvu/13

Hi, anyway to emulate the double lines and dots after the heading on this page. I had a go but they're too far apart, any way to bring them closer? Jpez (talk) 17:02, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

How about this: {{center block|style=border-style:double none; line-height:0;|•{{em}}•{{em}}•{{em}}•{{em}}•}}

•••••

—Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:07, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Edit conflict ... I gave a try with line height. See page.— Mpaa (talk) 18:09, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

I used your first suggestion. Thanks!Jpez (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2016 (UTC)

Page:Groton In The Witchcraft Times.djvu/13

On the first page someone transcribed as per scan, including all the sups and word shortenings. However on this page linked these have been expanded.

So a question, match scan exactly or expand words as in the Text layer provided? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:02, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Amended as the first page scan was by someone else it seems.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:53, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Translations of original texts

It is mentioned that Translations of original texts can be edited. I want to translate a book of poem in English language written by Rabindra Nath Tagore, the Nobel prize winner, which is already there in Wikisource into Odia language. Is it permissible? --Subas Chandra Rout (talk) 11:52, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Provided the original and translation is copyright-free (some are only free in the US) or under a 'free-license' translations should be permissible. Do you have a local Wikisource for Odia? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:55, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

All original works of Tagore are copyright-free under PD-India-URAA. If you want to translate as WS translation, no problem. But most of his well-known poems are already present in English translation; many are present in this site, either in main or index name space. Please confirm from the author page. However, translation of Bengali poems into English via Odia will certainly offer a new flavor. However, as you are going to translate a translation, please ensure that the Odia translation is copyright-free. In such a case, it is desirable that the original should be present in orWS, so that text can be compared. Hrishikes (talk) 13:36, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

I think this is a request to do en -> or . ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:02, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, I had misunderstood. Even then, there is no apparent problem. Hrishikes (talk) 00:44, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

New user, please help

I'm a new user here, and I don't know what to do. Please help! Queen Laura (talk) 00:51, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

For starters you can have a look at the Help pages Jpez (talk) 05:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Who is this author?

I'm planning on moving this work over and I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out who this author actually is. It's a minor thing, but it's really bothering me now.

It goes like this:

• The work is called "The Filipino Martyrs" (subtitle: "a story of the crime of February 4, 1899".)
• It was published in 1900, for the first time as far as I can tell.
• The author is a fellow named Richard Brinsley Sheridan.
• Every archived version on the internet -- be it Google Books, IA, or elsewhere -- wrongly attributes it to this Richard Brinsley Sheridan, who lived 1751 to 1816.
• As far as I can tell it's an actual eyewitness account of something that happened in 1899 (during the Spanish-American War, I think, but I could be wrong); I don't think it's speculative fiction, but maybe that's what's going on.

Wikipedia lists three different Richard Brinsley Sheridans. One is the same as the author (d. 1816). Another died 1888. Another is an Australian politican who also died in the 1880's. None of them could have been an eyewitness to something that happened in 1899.

So can someone help me in figuring out who exactly this "Richard Brinsley Sheridan" is? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 15:44, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

So this VIAF page. It shows he also wrote "Club men of Philadelphia", 1894, which is a start. Charles Matthews (talk) 15:59, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

which would then be 6 June 1867- 18 December 1919, son of Owen and Clara Sheridan. Shown as a publisher in 1897. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:07, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Ditto Marks

Depeding on the work and OCR, I've encountered various forms of marking for 'ditto' , some of which use a dual comma symbol or dual quotes. Do we have a style note on what to use when transcribing because, I've tended to use and Ascii double comma ,,? If there is a Unicode ditto mark I should be using instead it would be nice to agree on that with other contributors. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Usually I use &bdquo; comes out as „ — billinghurst sDrewth 16:32, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I will continue to use the ,, on current efforts, but will note the above for future ones. I won't be changing any existing works, unless there is a consensus. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I've been using what the printer preferred. Eg. if the printing used regular double quotes, I just use regular double quotes: ". And, since I wasn't aware of the „ html entity, I've just been using two commas as well. So, do we prefer a consistent enWS style (eg. a {{ditto}} template) or match the printed material?

Oh look, we do already have a {{ditto}} template that does this: {{{1}}}„ --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:13, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, I am however cautious about using that template on a page with a table that has a lot of them for reasons to do with limitations in how many templates can be included, on some complex tables it can hit limit fairly easily.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

I was just surprised that we even had that template. It's useful for errata pages, if nothing else. (I don't entirely understand the point about tables since I make them by hand, but I'll take your word for it.) Mukkakukaku (talk) 14:18, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

re-adding scripts/tools

Hi, I've (once again) lost the super convenient tools in the lefthand navigation bar. The most significant to me is the one that tidies up line breaks and hyphenation, but there were several I used. Can somebody help me restore them? -Pete (talk) 17:57, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

Of course I am just guessing here but I note your javascript startup script both directly loads Pathoschild's templatescript, and indirectly (via User:Peteforsyth/Regexp toolbar.js) loads it again using a different technique. This sort of thing has got to be some kind of a recipe for unpredictable behaviour. May I suggest simplifying this (i.e. making sure only one load path is chosen) as a first step? AuFCL (talk) 01:21, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Thanks @AuFCL:! I'm kind of a dunce when it comes to JS and MW, I don't really understand how all this stuff fits together. That probably results from me having requested help from different people at different times. I don't really know how to do what you suggest. I tried commenting out the older one; I loaded up a few more pages, I refreshed and purged, but the tools aren't coming back. Did I do the wrong thing? Could you suggest something more specific? Sorry, I realize you don't fully know the answer...but you might know how the pieces fit together a bit better than I do! Regardless, thank you for looking into it -- much appreciated. -Pete (talk) 02:24, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

O.K. I agree with what you have done so far…except I feel you were a little too enthusiastic with the pruning! May I suggest instead restoring Regexp toolbar.js to its prior contents and instead commenting out the mw.loader.load('//tools-static.wmflabs.org/meta/scripts/pathoschild.templatescript.js'); line in your User:Peteforsyth/common.js? Although it indeed may be "newer" it does not contain the linkage logic required for many of your "convenient tools". I hope this helps. AuFCL (talk) 03:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Well...I think I tried what you suggested, not sure if I got it exactly right, but I'm still not seeing "Clean Up &Lines" in my sidebar. (To be simple, that's really the only one I miss on a daily basis -- if there's a way to get that one working, without also restoring the others, I'd be fine with that.) -Pete (talk) 01:30, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@Peteforsyth: Don't entirely despair. Little by little I think there is progress. If I try to load your current environment I receive this error: TypeError: pathoschild.TemplateScript.Add is not a function (c.f. User:Peteforsyth/Regexp toolbar.js) However, there is code for pathoschild.TemplateScript.add. Could your problem be as simple as incorrect case? Try (carefully) modifying all three occurrences of .TemplateScript.Add in Regexp toolbar.js with .TemplateScript.add and try that. (As this process is a bit like peeling an onion I guess expecting another layer of problems to then pop out is reasonable.) AuFCL (talk) 03:44, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@AuFCL: That worked! Commence the happy dance, and the warp-speed Wikisourcery! Many thanks. (I wonder how it got broken...but I won't waste my time wondering too hard.) -Pete (talk) 05:38, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

@Peteforsyth: Delighted to hear it! Whilst not proof Pathoschild's TemplateScript documentation changed 10th May last year indicating—well, you've probably guessed already… AuFCL (talk) 06:34, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Well, surprise surprise :) Thanks again. -Pete (talk) 06:58, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Index:Public General Statutes 1896.djvu

Was attempting to solve the long standing issue of this potentially overloading the transclusion limits by brute forcing the table formatting, at which point the previous (and known issue with page numbers) not appearing when a table is over multiple pages came back.

I will now go back and revert my attempted solution, but having spent far too many hours on trying to work around a parser that seems to be inconsistent and pedantic about just WHAT constitutes white space, paragraph breaks etc and precisely HOW and WHY they behave differently depending on how something is transcluded, is starting to convince me it isn't worth the hassle, which is a shame, because I put a lot of effort into getting the Short Titles portion of this onto Wikisource. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:51, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

It would be helpful and hence the posting here if someone could fully document once and for all exactly what the one correct approach for multi-page tables is (including those generated by templates) so that this argument isn't rehashed very 6 months or so. This (as I have said previously) needs a long term and permanent soloution. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:03, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Index:A History of Mathematics (1893).djvu -- request for two replacement pages

Images for page 256 (djvu 276) and page 281 (djvu 300) have hands blocking scanned text. Clear page scans are available from Internet Archive identifier: historyofmathema001062mbp page 257 and page 281. Outlier59 (talk) 00:29, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

User:ShakespeareFan00/Sandbox/Short-titles

Won't format correctly, despite when I put the same page content manually into Special:ExpandTemplates it did. It seems the parser is being highly pedantic about just exactly how it handles <pages> vs directly. I also checked the underlying templates for a mismatch of HTML tags and could not find any. Perhaps someone here can actually explain WHY the formatting is breaking for what should be otherwise valid markup? I am now slightly frustrated givenn that this issue has been raised repeatedly in the past without a satisfactory solution being reached. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:24, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

Page purge

Was there a recent change that required purges to be confirmed? Until a few days ago the purge script used to do it automatically.

Also I'm seeing a significant lag between a page being validated and it's showing up as such in an index, Sometimes I've had to manual purges to force an update to the relevant Index: page. (I'm assuming there a slight replication delay, but it wasn't there a few days ago. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:23, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

You should just see the storm of acrimony this issue is currently causing on Phabricator. Whilst not canonical I think this gives the best overall summary I have seen so far. There is even a subgroup who want purge eliminated altogether as having been the red-headed step child of MediaWiki actions. You cannot make this stuff up. AuFCL (talk) 22:41, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Well technically, if there was a proper way of forcing updates to linked pages, I wouldn't need to manually purge as such.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:15, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

To my understanding purge becomes a system job as it replicates onwards.YOu used to be able to see the job queue at Special:Statistics though now you have to use the api. See detail at mw:Manual:Job queue — billinghurst sDrewth 00:39, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

There is more than one "kind" of purge. Certainly the "forcerecursivelinkupdate" variant (so-called "Hard Purge" here) populates the job queue. I am not sure sure about normal purges—I think they simply invalidate the host-end-cache (not related to browser-side-caching) and await page regeneration upon the (usually immediate) next browser request for display. There also is an intermediate kind of purge (forecelinkupdate) which is effectively one-level-limited recursive (see: the API documentation.) AuFCL (talk) 01:31, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

The {{quote}} template and page breaks

I just completed a transcription of Address at Oregon Bar Association annual meeting. The original has extensive quotations from legal rulings, for which I used {{quote}}. However, I can't seem to make it work properly across page breaks (for instance, between pages 5 and 6). I tried both explicitly using the "noinclude" HTML tag, and placing parts of the template invocation into the header and footer, but neither works as expected. Any ideas? -Pete (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

{{quote/s}} and {{quote/e}} help? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:05, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Perfecto, thanks! -Pete (talk) 17:13, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Aaron's Rod: scan choice

I'm looking to upload a scan for Aaron's Rod by D.H. Lawrence. The one linked on the author page is the British first edition. However IA also has the first American edition. As with other Lawrence works, Aaron's Rod was censored. Can I have advice on which would be better to transcribe – less censored – please? This Google book looks useful but it won't show me enough pages: [6]. Thanks, BethNaught (talk) 15:33, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

If they're both public domain, then the ideal scenario would be to get both... but if you have to pick one, I'd say go with the one you would prefer to work on, or with the one that is more notable, whichever is more important to you. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)

Both Seltzer (American editor) and Secker (English editor) made extensive cuts without consulting Lawrence, who was visiting Ceylon at the time. They did so independently but most of the cuts are the more-or-less the same. The biggest differences are that Secker cut an extra passage from Chapter 10 (critical of the Royal family) and another from Chapter 17 (discussion about friendship and love). So though neither edition can possibly be considered authoritative, I'd be inclined to consider the American edition that little bit more intact. Hesperian 03:18, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for the useful information, Hesperian. The American edition is now at Index:Aaron's Rod, Lawrence, New York 1922.djvu. BethNaught (talk) 13:43, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Template:Nd/GPO and relations

Nominally taking a break from editing here, but spotted a mistake in how this handles alternate/additional styles. Would appreciate someone reviewing this with a view to fixing a logical error on my part. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:35, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I didn't see anything specifically wrong with it, but I simplified it so if it still doesn't work it should be easier to address. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:22, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Source does not appear

Hello. On the following pages Page:Coubertin - France since 1814, 1900.djvu/7 Page:Coubertin - France since 1814, 1900.djvu/11, the source does not appear on my screen. Is it an issue with the Source file ? Thanks. Hektor (talk) 16:57, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

It appears correct to me; it may be your browser or your user preferences. Does it work in another browser? Does it work if you are logged out? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:16, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@Hektor: Are you looking for a tab /source\? The source file is accessed through following the /index\ tab as it is the Index: namespace file. I am seeing it there. The source tab is from main namespace to index page, and I cannot even remember why they are different ... "hysterical" reasons (?) — billinghurst sDrewth 22:52, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

Prefatory note

Hello. Other question. The PREFATORY NOTE of France since 1814 does not appear in the table of contents. What are the rules relative to adding sections which are not listed in the original Table of Contents ? Thanks. Hektor (talk) 17:04, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

If the prefatory note is short, I would put it on the main page with the TOC and so forth, as I did with the foreword to The Venerable Don Bosco, the Apostle of Youth. If it is too long for this, I would just leave it out of the TOC and use only the "next" and "previous" fields of the header, as I did with the introduction to 10 of Woody Guthrie's Songs. Finally, if there were many such pages that do not appear in the TOC, I would probably make use of {{AuxTOC}} to list them on the main page just above the TOC. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:15, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

These days we have usually included other preliminary pages onto the root page of a work. It is usual for (nearly) all pages to be transcluded, rather than just have the ToC alone on the root page. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:59, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Mass reset of status

I added the following, cleaning up the OCR scans: Index:Zodiac stories by Blanche Mary Channing.pdf

Having read every single line a concern was expressed that I was still missing scan glitches, and that it shouldn't have been marked as proofread until it was 100% clean.

So can someone reset the status of this, until someone that can meet the standard now required reviews it?

I'm considering if I carry on contributing, if I apparently lack the capability to spot scan glitches. 21:47, 22 August 2016 (UTC) previous comment by ShakespeareFan00

I never said it should be 100% clean, and I have never done so. I know that would be hypocritical. Also, please don't do anything rash. It's clear from your talk page that you have ongoing projects which are valued (such as Cassell). BethNaught (talk) 21:52, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Cassel Vol1 is another one of concern, I was finding typographical errors, all over the place, which given that I read this line by line in places when validating, gives me some concerns about how many other pages got "speed-read" for obvious errors and not more subtle ones..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:30, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Listening to advice about our proofreading and our rate of proofreading may cause us to reflect and internally wince. We should be aware of our foibles and reflect on the required accuracy and thoroughness, rather than churn. I know that I will read the text, then "read" for the formatting (italics, emdashes, fractions, pound signs, spaces around quotes, para breaks, ...), then save it and review for the things that I missed — the typeface difference will often show extra bits (ie. letter l versus number 1). Of course with ocr/djvu processing if an error happens once, it will often happen multiple times in the same work, so for long works a post-it note of a mini-checklist per work is valuable. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:31, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

PS. it is possible to have a bot run through and reset the page status, though only really possible back to non-proofread as the proofreader needs to match the editor in the higher page status. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:33, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I was a few years ago, doing what I termed OCR cleanup when creating a new page, and was more than happy with this, but someone left me talk page comments suggesting that I should be marking them as proofread. I was slightly unhappy about doing that for precisely the reasons raised most recently (unspotted scan glitches.).

I've commented elsewhere that I see transcription as a 3 stage process.

1. 1 Clean up pages -> Text entered (marked as non-proofread or problem accordingly) -> On completion text is at 99% correct
2. 2 Proofreading -> Text is checked -> On completion text is 100% non-printer errors, all images formatting etc. -> Page that can be validated
3. 3 Validation -> Page that can be transcluded and needs no further obvious corrections.

I'd prefer to concentrate on Stage 1, rather than on a combined Stage 1&2 as most people consider it.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:57, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Personally, when I validate, I expect to find and fix an error around about every one to three pages. When I find fewer than that, I'm very impressed. When I find multiple errors per page, I am unimpressed with the proofreading, and may be inclined to give the proofreader some feedback on their performance. It's hard to give that feedback well i.e. constructively and without giving needless offence. I've had a look at the discussion, and in my opinion BethNaught gave it well enough. S/he has raised a reasonable concern in a manner that was assertive, but not aggressive or rude. Hesperian 02:50, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Having read part of several discussions on ShakespeareFan00's talkpage, I see a lot of expectations of near perfection, and lack of good faith. Maybe warranted, maybe not, but it appears that (the royal) you are near to driving away an active contributor. As far as the level of errors on a "proofread" page, it would depend on the work. For short pages (1-3 kb or so per page) starting from relatively good OCR, with little formatting other than titles and the odd italic, 1 per 1-3 pages is fine. I tend to work on works with longer pages (3-25kb+) starting from very poor OCR, with dozens of corrections per page (occasionally a complete retype), lots of formatting, columned text and/or sidenotes. I try to keep it to less than 3 errors per page, but I may or may not be successful. I don't worry too much about it, since that is the whole point of validation. Heck, I get bored if I'm validating a work and the proofreader has done too good of a job. --T. Mazzei (talk) 16:48, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

I think that we are asking for a little more investment of time per page. The rate of proofreading has an impact on accuracy, and some users should slow their rate. I believe that we are only trying to apply the same rigour that we apply to ourselves. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:42, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Sidenotes

(Nominally on break) but querying something...

Why do {{left sidenote}} and {{Right sidenote}} exist alongside {{Outside L}}{{outside R}} which use a different approach?

It would be nice to have one approach to recommend on new efforts. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:55, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

I was under the impression (based mostly on discussions I have read between you and User:George Orwell III) that sidenotes do not work well in general and therefore a one-size-fits-all approach would be both futile and unwise. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:18, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

I set up "outside L" and "outside RL", to stop the presentation of the saw tooth effect of L/R/L/R sidenotes. Also to note that templates have to behave differently in main ns to page ns, and they have different wrapping methods.

The sidenotes templates have morphed in their development, and we truly have a mess that needs to be fixed as it is all still problematic, especially where the bleeding mongrels overlap due to page width. Sidnotes are ugly ugly ugly to try and reproduce though they are very useful tool for long works where different points get raised. We need someone really css savvy to help us, and that is a long-standing issue. — billinghurst sDrewth 02:05, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

The problem with sidenotes started when the flexible template implementation was rolled into the relatively inflexible dynamic layouts. The solution is not to try to come up with a "one size fits all solution" as that presupposes there is only one proper way of displaying sidenotes. The proper solution is to allow (sophisticated) users to override the dynamic template css definitions. I.e., within the dynamic_layout_overrider tag you should be able to define a custom css definition specifically for that page per Help:Layout#How_to_write_dynamic_layouts. When navigating to the page, dynamic layouts would add the custom layout for that page, and set it as default. Navigating away from the page, dynamic layouts should return your original layout 1/2/3 default. In this way, we would only need 2 "sidenote" templates (left & right), editors could set up the css to display as makes sense for the work, users visiting the page would see the work laid out as intended, but could still switch to a different layout if desired.--T. Mazzei (talk) 17:43, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

Small formatting error

Centering For some reason when Page:Pulchrism - Championing Beauty as the Purpose of Art.pdf/17 is transcluded into Pulchrism: Championing Beauty as the Purpose of Art, the image is not centered. Every other page is fine except this one... Thoughts? Also, this is a very short work--is anyone willing to validate it? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:41, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

May I suggest Page:Pulchrism - Championing Beauty as the Purpose of Art.pdf/16 is lacking a {{nop}}? AuFCL (talk) 04:04, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

@AuFCL: That didn't do the trick but thanks. Any other ideas? —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 04:59, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Well all looks good—now—from my point of view; so unless you made further edits, perhaps it was merely a caching issue? AuFCL (talk) 05:05, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

@AuFCL: Yes! I tried to Ctrl+Shift+R to refresh but maybe that didn't do it. Thanks again. Would you like to validate a page or two? If so, I can happily take a look at a few pages of something you are working on now. (For what it's worth, I have also asked the author to give me a scan of the cover image without copy so I can use that for the cover.) —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:23, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

... Is the license on this thing OK? I don't have access to OTRS, but the description just says that the relicensing as CC-BY-4.0 has been forwarded to OTRS, and nothing as to whether it was vetted, accepted, etc.

Then again I guess that's a question for commons and not for here. I'll finish the validation in the next hour. Mukkakukaku (talk) 16:13, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku: Thanks a lot. As I mentioned on Commons, he has declared the work re-licensed on his site. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 19:35, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Transcribing sections, 'tosection' doesn't seem to work?

So this is something I've noticed before. I'm not sure if it's a caching issue or what, but generally if I use a "fromsection" in the pages widget, it works, and then using the same label in the subsequent "tosection", it doesn't.

See, for example, this chapter which seems to be ignoring the "tosection" (the bottom part starting with 'Case Study of Another Artist in Practice' and beyond). And then the subsequent chapter, which uses the identical label in the "fromsection" and works perfectly.

I had the exact same thing happen on another set of chapters in this same work -- the fromsection worked fine, and the tosection didn't.

Anybody know what's going on? Am I using this widget wrong, is it caching, or what? I tried renaming the section and that didn't help -- the fromsection picked up the new name immediately and the tosection stubbornly refused to work. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 19:19, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Fixed (I hope): Page: edit, mainspace edit. The tosection parameter doesn't take you up to the ## label; it transcludes up to and including the section said label defines. Hence you need to put two ## labels on your page, so you can put the first one in your tosection parameter. BethNaught (talk) 19:33, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

... So Help:Transclusion is wrong? Mukkakukaku (talk) 07:52, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

What is missing is the section name at the beginning of the Chapter 3. When using EasyLST even sections that start at the top of page require a section marker. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:46, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

A word with a nonexistent (Swedish) character

THIS PAGE has the word Swedish "Osar" with a ring on top of the O, but it isn't in the Swedish character set. I know that Unicode symbols can be combined, but I was unsuccessful. Otherwise, the page is proofread. — Ineuw talk 07:43, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

According to the Wikipedia page on the ring diacritic, the O with ring is this letter: O̊. Depending on the font, the ring renders either above the O or slightly to the right (like a degree symbol.) Mukkakukaku--(talk) 07:57, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

I was unable to find any information on if the diacritic exists, but I think I’m able to mimic it: O̊ Marjoleinkl (talk) 08:10, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Ah, Mukkakukaku ’s comment wasn’t here when I added mine I promise! Marjoleinkl (talk) 08:38, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you both. — Ineuw talk 04:33, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

(Yet more) <poem> tag goofiness

There's a multi-page poem transcribed here. The second page renders fine, but the first page actually shows the <poem> tag and the formatting's all goofy. I poked it, and now it works right in page namespace, but it still doesn't work in main namespace. What gives? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 16:44, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

I brought the poem tag into the body as opposed to the footer, and added a break for stanza break rendering in the Main. There may be a better solution; I rarely use the poem tag any more. Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:01, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

It almost seems like it's more trouble than it's worth. Poems transcribed across pages with the closing </poem> in the footer used to work, but apparently it broke at some point so there's probably others of these goofy transclusions in other places. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:05, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Umm, <poem> has never worked broken between body and <noinclude> (ie. footer or header) tags in my time here, so I think that you are mistaken. You simply need to close a poem and reopen a poem on the next page, there is no value or need to leave it open. It should continue along fine. If you need a stanza break, you should put in a couple of hard returns and poke in a {{nop}} inside the poem close. Has worked well for me for years now. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:36, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

It worked like that a looong time ago. Like maybe 2008? Ish? Anyway, it's not important.

Stanza break on a page break only works if you put a nop before the closing poem tag on the first page, and another nop after the opening poem tag on the subsequent page. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 07:00, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

It is not my experience that there is a nop needed on the subsequent page, though whatever works for the works to get them to display appropriately. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:57, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

French handwritten text

Could someone help to understand the handwritten test in Page:Pierre and Jean - Clara Bell - 1902.djvu/306? Thanks— Mpaa (talk) 20:41, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mpaa: oeuvres appartiennent means "work belongs", or something like that, from memory. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:26, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

"I've made myself an abolute law to never allow my portrait to be published at any time, if I can help it. Exceptions have not taken place except by surprise. Our works belong to the public, but not our images." —Beleg Tâl (talk) 22:33, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks.— Mpaa (talk) 17:51, 6 September 2016 (UTC)

A minor correction, 'nos figures' in this context means "our [private] lives". — Ineuw talk 05:01, 8 September 2016 (UTC)

Translating Classical Text

I have read the style guides and quite a bit of help, but much of it is beyond my understanding. I only just discovered Wikisource and went directly to the translation of the Roman poet Catullus. I have been translating his poems from Latin for some time and commented in the talk area. When there was no response I jumped in with a translation of one of his poems (23) which hadn't been translated in Wikisource previously.

Having now read proposed policy on translations, I realise that my translation is an attempt to create a modern English version that is faithful to his meaning, but not literal, whereas the existing translation apparently tries to be literal (although not too successfully). In my ignorance I completely rewrote the existing version of Poem 1, instead of trying to correct the literal version.

I'd like to know how to start a new translation version of Catullus into English which might be enjoyable to readers today, but don't understand the instructions of how to do it. In fact my translation of poem 23 came out as prose, even though I tried to break the lines appropriately. Is there any chance I can still contribute usefully?

Don Martin 19 (talk) 22:42, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

@Don Martin 19: you have done well. I would advise you, if you wish, to continue to correct the ones that are wrong, and to fill in the ones that are missing. You will see that there are many red links at Translation:The poems of Catullus, which are ones yet to be created. And don't worry if your translation isn't perfect! Someone else can always come in and correct it later :)

Regarding breaking lines properly in poetry: the easiest way to do it is to surround the text with <poem>text goes here</poem> tags. This will automatically put a line break at the end of every line. Alternatively, you can manually put <br> at the end of each line to cause the new line. The latter option gives you more control, especially if the poem is more complex, but is probably not necessary in this case.

Thanks for your contributions, and have fun! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Journal of Peer Production

Hello! I am wondering if the Journal of Peer Production is appropriate to include in Wikisource. It is a public domain compilation of academic, peer-reviewed journal articles published in Issues set around individual themes. Q2Pz (talk) 02:02, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

@Q2Pz: Our policy on What Wikisource includes states the following: "Scientific research is acceptable to include in Wikisource if the work has verifiable scholarly peer review from a trusted entity. The work must be free or released under a free license, which precludes most works already commercially published under an agreement that prohibits republishing." Based on a perusal of the Journal of Peer Production, it would appear to have verifiable peer review, and the articles are public domain, so I see no objection to hosting them here. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:42, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Scans don't display or appear in miniature

What process prevents the scan from being displayed when I open a page for editing? In case of if they appear as a miniature, I click on <Edit> and it corrects itself, but if the screen of the original scan is empty, I am unable to bring it up. I purged the index page on several occasions, but that doesn't help. — Ineuw talk 18:58, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Has the "Scan resolution in edit mode" been set to a value on the Index page? It should be blank except for some very few edge cases; I find that if I can't see the page scans this is usually the culprit -- the value needs to be completely blank, not just a 0. What work(s) do you see this problem on? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 20:27, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Mukkakukaku, First, I also looked there and it was empty, then I changed it 0 and that didn't work, so I cleared out again. I do remember that at one time it was 999 (am I correct?). — Ineuw talk 21:32, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

P.S: The problem is on the commons. I can't refresh the volume there. — Ineuw talk 21:44, 11 September 2016 (UTC)

That property is supposed to be blank by default. In very rare cases it's set to address zoom/display issues. If it's accidentally set when it shouldn't be, it causes all sorts of weird display problems.

What file is it that you're having problems with? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 15:12, 12 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku: Sorry, missed this post, but I know what you mean, I've had this problem before and the I checked the field which is empty Index:Popular_Science_Monthly_Volume_54.djvu it may be OK today?, Just open the un-proofread pages sequentially in edit mode. If you encounter a problem, then check the same on the commons, that how I saw that the problem is not here. — Ineuw talk 05:14, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

I have this same problem sporadically, and none of the proposed solutions accounts for the instances I've experienced. Today, for example, while editing in Index:Four Plays of Aeschylus (Cookson).djvu, I could not bring up page 114 (djvu page 126). Other pages from the same text have been fine, so it is not a file or resolution issue. Going to the file itself at Commons, I could get the page to show if I refreshed, but the page image was lost again when I came back here. I am not experiencing that problem with that page at the moment, but I am on a different computer than before. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I have the identical problem, some pages work and some don't. Also it took ages to refresh the page on the Commons. — Ineuw talk 05:48, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Custom code for enhanced toolbar buttons no longer work

User:Londonjackbooks/common.js has some custom code which places buttons for various wiki tools but they no longer work. This was created by User:George Orwell III some time ago. I ask anyone who is familiar with this code to take a look at it. Perhaps User:Hesperian would be so kind? Thanks. — Ineuw talk 19:37, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

To recap my issue, please refer to Nutshell. Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:58, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

I should have the headspace on the weekend to look at this. Hesperian 05:45, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Weird error

This error: Expression error: Unrecognized punctuation character "{". appears to have been introduced with this edit. Any ideas what's causing it? -Pete (talk) 19:51, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

PD-1923 vice PD/1923 Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:02, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Yep. {{PD/1923}} requires a parameter, the year of author's death. If it's this J. J. Walton then you may as well use {{PD-old}} instead. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:14, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Got it, thanks. Seems quite likely that's the same JJ Walton, thanks for finding that. -Pete (talk) 20:56, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Help with sidenotes

Page:Douay_Rheims_Bible_1635_edition.pdf/4 has sidenotes, but I hate how it looks and it seems like too much markup to control it. I know my css and everything, but do I have to repeat it for each {{{{sidenote}}}}?, and I'm not even sure exactly where it goes. Please compare this with Page:Douay_Rheims_Bible_1635_edition.pdf/3 where I've used a table to try and copy the way the page looks. I don't know if the {{{{rule}}}} at bottom and top is the right way to go. So two main questions: 1) Should I try the table method, or the sidenotes, or do you have a better idea? Secondly, if table or sidenotes, what can I do to get it formatted better? DavidPorter65 (talk) 06:02, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Because this is just one page of the forward and you will want the text to be continuous, I suggest that "To the English Reader" needs to in the header field and the run-on word should be in the footer field. The notes on the right hand side look like the kind of thing that's usually done in footnotes today, so I suggest you do those that way. That would just leave the real sidenotes on the left. At present we have no better way of doing sidenotes, particularly as we can't predict what size screen readers will view the text on. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 06:17, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

User images

I unearthed an image from my childhood that I would like to use on my WS User page in place of Jack London's image. It was taken by one of my parents (you see the back of my head, with the city of Segovia in the background) back in the 70's. I was wondering what kind of permission I would need, licensing info, etc. Preferably keep it local (WS only). Thanks, Londonjackbooks (talk) 22:56, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

nvm... I have inquired at Commons, and will need to go through the consent process. Londonjackbooks (talk) 23:27, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

About URAA restoration of works having unclear status on the URAA date

Hi to all! I am again asking about URAA restoration issues. From Uruguay_Round_Agreements_Act/Title_V, SEC. 514. RESTORED WORKS:

"(h) DEFINITIONS.-For purposes of this section and section 109(a): 
...
"(6) The term restored work means an original work of authorship that

    "(A) is protected under subsection (a);
    "(B) is not in the public domain in its source country through expiration of term of protection;
...

I am wondering: how the point (B) is applied to a case when some foreign work has unclear copyright status on its URAA date? That is, because of some incompleteness of the copyright laws of the source country which were in force on that date, the work fell into some "grey zone" which was not covered by the copyright laws of that time, and accordingly it is unclear and undefined whether the work was copyrighted on the URAA date or not. How the point (B) should be treated in this case? Are such works restored and become considered copyrighted in the US; or not restored and get into PD in the US; or their copyright status in the US, similarly to the source country, becomes undefined as well? --Nigmont (talk) 12:09, 17 September 2016 (UTC)

Ultimately, a court in the source nation, if given the question, would conclude that the work is or isn't copyrighted in that nation, and if the case had never been litigated in the source nation, a US court would basically have to rule on that issue first. If we can't clearly say that it was PD in the original country, we can't clearly say that it is PD in the US.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:04, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for your clarifying (and I bring my apologizes for the mistakes in the text of my post above). --Nigmont (talk) 22:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Encyclopædia questions

Where's the best place to ask a question regarding one of the encyclopedias or dictionaries? Like Encyclopædia Brittanica, or the Dictionary of National Biography? Would it be on Scriptorium, or somewhere specific to those projects? --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:42, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

I'd ask on the index talk page and on the Wikiproject if one exists; if there's no response I'd bring it to the Scriptorium. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:37, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku: Those projects each have project pages, so if it is specific to a project and belongs in the archives of those pages, then ask there. Or if it is more general then asking here is fine (I don't think that we have ever been that perturbed on that formality). I wouldn't be asking on the index talk pages, too many volumes, too hard. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:24, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

Help! scan page in over/under editing mode is broken.

Tracked in PhabricatorTask T145923

The scan page window in over/under edit mode displays the full page size . . . hundreds of pixels high, and no scrolling possible. Could this be the unintended result of work done on the "mediawiki/extensions/ProofreadPage/modules/page/ext.proofreadpage.page.edit.js?"

Side by side mode works properly. Problem is the same in both Firefox and Google Chrome/Chromium, in Windows and Linux. — Ineuw talk 00:31, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm getting this error also. I don't think the recent change (task T145365 you mean?) to ext.proofreadpage.page.edit.js has been put into production yet. Do you regularly use the top/bottom view? Has it just broken? Sam Wilson 03:26, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Ditto here [Ff 48.0,2, W10, monobook]. I use it occasionally, and last I remember using it (and without this bug) was 2-3 weeks ago. — billinghurst sDrewth 04:08, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Samwilson: & @Billinghurst: I always use over under editing, can't edit otherwise. It was OK last night. Spent the day replacing the browsers, completely new installs, but my problem exists in both the French and the Spanish Wikisources. Wikipedia is OK. So, I am lost. — Ineuw talk 04:36, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Just tried monobook, and it's the same problem. I am using the standard FF version 49, Windiws 7. — Ineuw talk 05:03, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

And wmf software was updated 09:52, 19 September 2016. — Ineuw talk 05:07, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst, @Ineuw: I'm confused! :) (Nobody panic, it's not unusual.) The last update to proofreadpage here was 06:24, September 4, 2016, so why's it all kaput now? Anyway, I'm seeing the same issue with vertical layout when using proofreadpage master. So that's strange. Still, seems like the fix is simple: to set the image height after ensureImageZoomInitialization() rather than before. Related is phab:T145923 which is about changing the height of the text box when in vertical mode; I've got a patch you can look at. Sam Wilson 06:49, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

It also doesn't seem to remember horizontal/vertical mode between pages. Has that broken too? Sam Wilson 07:06, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Clearly I'm a special snowflake (again), but it works fine for me. Scan resolution is OK, zoom in/out works, can scroll around.... Firefox 48.0.2 on Windows 10. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 13:20, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Samwilson: Beg to differ. "ext.proofreadpage.page.edit.js" has been rolled out and is most likely the source of the problem. — Ineuw talk 16:52, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Interestingly, the correct layout flashes by before it flies away. — Ineuw talk 17:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku: are you referring to over/under proofreading mode, using which skin? — Ineuw talk 18:07, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Yes. I use default monobook skin with no modifications/customization. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 18:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: It seems that I am blocked from phabricator/maniphest is this so? — Ineuw talk 18:07, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

@Ineuw: I figured that file must've been updated. But how did you determine that? Where does one look? Maybe it was a manual fix just for ENWS? Also, that the layout flashes first is probably correct, as the smaller height of the image is being set, and then immediately increased again by the zooming tool. I've got a patch in that fixes it. Sam Wilson 23:56, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

This post is split between two different issues. Zooming and over/under editing. The patch to correct one problem may be related, but I am more interested in comments by those who use over/under editing. Zooming has never been a problem for me. — Ineuw talk 16:14, 23 September 2016 (UTC)

You're right, there are two issues:

# Phabricator:T145365 Zoom and image move commands not loading properly: "Uncaught Error: cannot call methods on prpZoom prior to initialization"

# Phabricator:T145923 Need to reduce nsPage body edit box height in horizontal view

I sort of think that fixing the first caused the second. I've added the 'tracked' template above to link to the second, because although that's about the height of the editing box, the height of the image is related and I think we can reasonably fix the two in one fell swoop. (Although, let's also take to mind what @Alex brollo said in the latter ticket about more thorough testing of changes prior to rollout!) Sam Wilson 02:03, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

@Samwilson:, Thanks for the links to Phabricator. I am following the conversations. — Ineuw talk 06:30, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

Missing pages & new scan

I am currently proofreading the book Yorkshire Oddities, Incidents and Strange Events. The available scan is missing pages 12 and 13. I found a new scan on the Internet Archive (same edition and with both missing pages) and uploaded it to Commons (here). As far as I know the next step would be to modify/update the Index page with the new scan, but that task is at the moment beyond my knowledge, so I'd like to request help with it. Also I'd like to know if I can continue proofreading with the existing scan or rather wait for the "new" one. Tromaster (talk) 20:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)

If it's the same book, edition etc. you should upload it over the original existing file on commons. You click on Upload a new version of this file under File History. Jpez (talk) 05:42, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

As Jpez says, upload the new version over the old one at Commons. Because the pages in the current version are doubles of 10 and 11, the new version's pages should slot in neatly into the structure we have at the Index: file. If it doesn't let us know here and one of the Administrators will be able to fix any problems quite easily. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:18, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Done here (thanks to both for your help), but for some reason the Index: page of the book still shows the missing/duplicate pages of the "old" scan. Any clues?

I've purged the Commons cache for this file. Try it now. If it's still not right, purge your cache. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:29, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Also, the scan I uploaded previously is now duplicated on Commons (here); could somebody please delete it? (if that's the way it works). Tromaster (talk) 22:19, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

There should be a link in the toolbox on the left hand side of the screen "Nominate for deletion". Click that and then type the reason into the first box that appears. If you're able to, include a link to the used version so that the admins at Commons can verify what you are telling them. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:29, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Done and done, and it works! :) TYVM, Beeswaxcandle. Tromaster (talk) 22:45, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

How to include a cover image

See Pulchrism I now have a scan of the cover image itself--a painting uploaded to Commons as c:Jesse Waugh - Beauty Sublime Still.jpg. As you can see in Page 1 the image is underneath the text of the title and author. What is the best way that I can realize this on Wikisource? I know that I can use a z-index to make the text above the image in three dimensions but I don't want to insert a lot of raw CSS/HTML into the page if a template will work just fine. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:55, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

{{overfloat image}} is the template you want. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:01, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Umm, why aren't you just transcluding the cover image by calling the file with an explicit page=1 parameter? See A Sailor Boy with Dewey for an example where I've done this. If you want the text of the cover to be searchable then use an alt= parameter. i.e. use the KISS principle. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:23, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

I always transclude the text in these cases; it's a bit more work but I feel it better fits the idea of transcluding the text. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:25, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

@Beleg Tâl: Thanks for the guidance and thanks also for including the text. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:02, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Sheet music

Can someone who is better than me at LilyPond notation see what I goofed up on the bass clef on this page: Page:Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs.djvu/26? I'm thinking that the notes that are throwing it off aren't actually quarter notes, but I can't tell what they're supposed to be otherwise.

Thanks, Mukkakukaku (talk) 21:10, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku: See here for \autoBeamOff. More documentation is here. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:50, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

@Koavf: actually I was talking about the two measures associated with the lyrics "blue and green/gold and white". In the original sheet music, on the bass clef, each measure appears to be a quarter-eighth-quarter-eighth series of notes, but that's clearly wrong -- the time is 2/4 and a 4-8-4-8 measure is 4 beats too many. I could try to force the bars into the bass clef notation but I think I'm misreading the original sheet music.

(The autoBeamOff is helpful for the lyrics, but I'm more concerned about my bass clef issue....) Thanks, Mukkakukaku (talk) 18:37, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

The rhythm is separated into two voices: one 4-4 and the other 8-8-8-8. If I recall correctly this is a pain to encode but I'll see if I can make any headway. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:41, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Have a look at User:Beeswaxcandle/Sandbox3 where I've done this bit and simplified some of your coding. Also, the grace notes are acciaccatura rather than appogiatura. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 19:05, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Cannot float image properly

There is something wrong with the image at the bottom of this page Page:Popular Science Monthly Volume 54.djvu/735 that it won't display properly in the container. Can someone please look at it? Thanks. — Ineuw talk 02:08, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. — Ineuw talk 06:09, 8 October 2016 (UTC)

reflist liststyle lower-alpha

my page is Page:The Holy Bible faithfvlly translated into English ovt of the authentical Latin, diligently conferred with the Hebrew, Greek, & other Editions in diuers languages.pdf/69 There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to get the footnote references to be in alphabetical characters. According to the help page on {{reflist}}, I think this should work: {{reflist|liststyle=lower-alpha}}. But it doesn't. I've tried dozens of variations to see what might work but I can't get anything other than the default numbers. Could someone have a look and see if I'm doing anything wrong with the templates? I suspect it might be a bug in the wikisource software, because I feel like I've tried every possible combination. DavidPorter65 (talk) 11:41, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@DavidPorter65: Because we do not try to replicate referencing in that style, instead we have a standard referencing across the site. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:46, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@Billinghurst: It's in the template documentation. Are you saying it's a design decision for it not to work, in spite of it being in the template documentation? https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Template:Reflist#List_styles DavidPorter65 (talk) 11:52, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

That documentation was imported from enWP and hasn't been updated. :-( Generally you are more likely to find {{smallrefs}} used than "reflist". It is one of those ugly beasts that has been reimported from enWP and nobody has had the inclination to shake that cage. We have one referencing style. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:22, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

@DavidPorter65: I agree with you, but if you follow the links to the articles which are linked to the template, they are all main namespace standalone works (not transcluded from the Page namespace), or the Author namespace. We don't have Wikipedia's abundance of programmers who would be able to give you a definitive answer if it's possible to do, or not, let alone undertake to adapt the template. The only thing I can do for now, is place a note on the template page to this effect. — Ineuw talk 04:49, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

The problem is that your default browser styling uses decimal styling by default. They worked around this in enWP by adding the following rule to ... load.php I think:

div.reflist ol.references {
    /* removed some other rules not relevant to this example */
    list-style-type:inherit
 }

The list-style-type:inherit effectively tells the html ordered list element within the reflist to use the list style that its parent is using (the parent being which is the block you configure using the {{reflist}} template.) If someone were to update the site's CSS to include the rule above and then it'll magically start working again. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 09:11, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku: Did you somewhere miss the comment that this is not a style that we wish used at Wikisource? So do you think that anyone would add it to our common style? The previous discussion wherever/whenever it was addressed the fact that 1) we convert works from footnotes to endnotes in transclusion, and 2) in many cases we will end up with more than 26 references. There is no need to replicate or have alphabetical referencing, and this would align with the guidance at Wikisource:Style guide and Help:References. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:35, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

No, I was ignoring it. I got curious as to why it would work in one place and not the other even though the template was -- and still is -- exactly the same on both enWS and enWP.

Also we do use something similar. See Page:Hamlet - The Arden Shakespeare - 1899.djvu/36. Using two sets of reflists, one with alpha and the other with decimal, or one with decimal and the other with lower roman, would be much less confusing than this mess. There's other places too where we have "grouped" reflists, but this is the only one I can remember off the top of my head. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:03, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Another example is Bible (Webster's)/Obadiah —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:28, 14 October 2016 (UTC)

Index pages missing in special:IndexPages

I am from the sanskrit wikisource. There we observe that several index pages (181 present in here) do not appear in special:IndexPages. This leads to people being misled. Can you help us understand and rectify this problem? Vishvas vasuki (talk) 14:52, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

@Vishvas vasuki: The tool was developed by our colleagues in French Wikisource, so it may be more worthwhile asking them. — billinghurst sDrewth 22:26, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the lead! I've asked there. Vishvas vasuki (talk) 00:40, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

This is an item that has concerned me since I've been here (over a year now). I really like this list but noted that not all index pages showed. I've now got a partial solution, if anyone is interested in sharing going forward. On Nov 1, 2016 Baseball Joe Around the World was created, Nov 5, 2016 Dave Porter and his Rivals was created. The first one still did not appear today, yet the second one did. It appears that a page needs to be processed before it shows up on the List. Instead of proofing a page, I clicked on the clock-purge gadget (good gadget!), and now Baseball Joe shows up on the list. If other Wikisources don't have this gadget, maybe some help their way could be in order. Humbug26 (talk) 17:55, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

@Humbug26: Please describe process ... do you mean start working on the transcription process, ie. transcribe a page? Do you mean that you needed to purge the index page? If there is an issue that can fixed with a purge, then we can have a bot touch/purge the (newly create) index pages. If we have a xwiki issue with a tool then the issue should be lodged in Phabricator: for a better resolution. Personally I rarely use Special:IndexPages as I (personally) find little use for it. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:03, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

As I see it, index page is created, no transcription, does not show up on Special:List of Index Pages. If index page is purged, with no action on any page, then the project shows on the List. Doing a quick check of Category:Index, there would appear to be 10,053 indexes; yet List of Index Pages shows 9,766, leaving 287 unaccounted for. I tend to like this list as the wiki category pages are not the easiest to read when looking for something to work on; probably accounts for the various userpage indices pages. The only other thing that I would find useful is the index-creation year but that is another thought for some other time. Humbug26 (talk) 16:30, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Is this text in the public domain?

I am considering doing some transcribing, but how can I tell if a particular text is in the public domain in the United States?

Specifically, I'm interested in Arthur Waley's translation of The Tale of Genji.

More generally, is there a way I can easily look up whether copyright still applies to this or that work?

Hijiri88 (talk) 12:47, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

@Hijiri88: If your text isn't in the public domain in the States, in this instance, it is in Canada and so you can post it to wikilivres:. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:10, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

This question might be better posted to Wikisource:Copyright discussions. This "Help" page is usually focused on technical issues, and the copyright specialists don't always drop in here. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:42, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Also, regarding the more general question, you will find Help:Public domain a good guide. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 02:43, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

@Hijiri88: We usually point users to http://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm as the best descriptive page. In short, any non-US book published after 1922 is unlikely to be out of copyright in the US as there was 95 year copyright. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:09, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Cassell's Illustrated History of England/Volume 2/Chapter 10

Could someone help me figure out this transclusion? I have checked and re-checked but cannot seem to get this to only include the part of page 298 (djvu page 312) before the start of the next chapter. - Tannertsf (talk) 18:47, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Fixed.— Mpaa (talk) 19:43, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you - Tannertsf (talk) 19:52, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

@Tannertsf: For what it's worth, I never enclose values with double quotes where it is not required . . . like when there is no space in the tag value, only it must begin with an alpha character. This applies to section tags, named ref tags, and measurements like 15px, 3em, etc. It reduces the clutter. — Ineuw talk 20:08, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Thank you. - Tannertsf (talk) 20:32, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

How do you stylize this?

Greetings Wikisource community (CC:EncycloPetey). I'm currently working on this page where a quote is written in a quite peculiar way, see the original here:

"The House resumed the consideration of the re-

" port of the Committee, to whom was referred the

" memorial of Andrew G. Faunces: whereupon,

" Resolved, That the reasons assigned by the secre-

" tary of the treasury for refusing payments of the

" warrants referred to in the memorial, are fully

" sufficient to justify his conduct; and that in the

" whole course of this transaction, the secretary and

" other officers of the treasury, have acted a meritori-

" ous part towards the public."

As you can see every line that is part of the quote has a " in front of it. How should this be stylized? Should it just be a quotation mark at the start & end of the whole section, should I use {{quote}} or something else entirely? What is the general practice on this? Respectfully, InsaneHacker (💬) 18:40, 9 November 2016 (UTC) - Minor corrections made 18:44

Normally we'd just simply put a quotation at the beginning and the end. There isn't even a good way to replicate that formatting style in HTML/CSS without manually specifying line breaks anyway. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:26, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

@Beleg Tâl. Thanks for the help. I have another question if you don't mind. I have another page which contains footnotes. I'm going to use a ref-tag to make them, but should I put a reflist at the bottom of the individual page or just let it appear "naturally" so that if the whole thing is viewed at once it'll all go to the bottom of the work? Respectfully, InsaneHacker (💬) 19:58, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

You can put <references /> or {{smallrefs}} in the footer of the individual page; this will not transclude to mainspace so you can put <references /> again at the bottom of the mainspace page once you've transcluded it. I've put it on on the page in question. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:05, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Beg to differ with Beleg Tâl, line breaks can be handled by the poem tag. Also, as far as I know, a colon should not be used to indent in this context because of printing problems. I struggled for a long time with poem tags and center block, which creates uneven top and bottom margins. Finally, I figured out which styles are accepted by the poem tag, so I use the method below. — Ineuw talk 20:10, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

"The House resumed the consideration of the re-
" port of the Committee, to whom was referred the
" memorial of Andrew G. Faunces: whereupon,
" Resolved, That the reasons assigned by the secre-
" tary of the treasury for refusing payments of the
" warrants referred to in the memorial, are fully
" sufficient to justify his conduct; and that in the
" whole course of this transaction, the secretary and
" other officers of the treasury, have acted a meritori-
" ous part towards the public."

The problem with that is that we don't want to preserve line breaks in flowing paragraphs. Like I said, it can be done if you include the line breaks. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:14, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

Got it, I misunderstood your post. I never seen such issue coming up before. My example is for poems in PSM which are all set with smaller characters and how I resolved their appearance. — Ineuw talk 21:38, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

This discussion has come up once or twice and I ended up experimenting with it extensively the last time. I think it's different for poems since the line breaks are definitely to be preserved in that case :) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:53, 9 November 2016 (UTC)

It's incredibly common in earlier printing that instead of one pair of quotation marks, a quotation mark starts each line of the quotation.--Prosfilaes (talk) 09:14, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

The parts of this I've wrestled with are: (a) Do we indent the margin of such quotes? (b) Do we place quote marks at the start of each paragraph, or just the leading one?

As far as (a) goes, the quotation marks are definitely visible in the original when this is done, and those definitely inset the text by about 1em. So, while I agree that we shouldn't replicate the quote marks at the start of every line, we lose the visual aspect of that formatting if we don't also inset the text by an em.

As for (b), it was not uncommon among Victorian printers that, when a quoted passage runs for several paragraphs, each paragraph had a leading quotation mark to show that the quotation continues, but there is no closing mark until the end of the passage. Alternatively, we could just have one leading and one closing set of marks for the entire passage.

The two issues are not entirely unrelated, as an inset passage would have less need to worry about issue (b). --EncycloPetey (talk) 11:52, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

This is the first I've heard that (b) isn't just general standard English usage... —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:11, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

I've always been taught that the correct (modern) style is to skip the closing quotation mark at the end of a paragraph where the quotation continues in the next paragraph. Maybe I just read old books though! :-) Sam Wilson 00:32, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I looked it up and the following style guides indicate quotations are to be used at the beginning of each paragraph and the end of the last paragraph:

• Canadian government style guide (Canadian English)
• 1920 Chicago Manual of Style (American English)
• Grammar and Style in British English (British English)

So it looks like omitting the opening quotation mark in a new paragraph is actually incorrect usage, though of course that doesn't matter if a source scan that fails to follow this rule. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:17, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

Typewritten documents and 1's and 0's

This is something of a hypothetical situation, but since I've been transcribing lots of typewritten documents recently I'm sure I'll run into this situation sooner rather than later.

Certain models of typewriters didn't have numeric 1 and 0 keys, so typists were trained to instead use the letters l and O as replacements. Eg. To write 100 they would write loo (lowercase letter O) or lOO (capital/uppercase letter O). This was a technical limitation and an accompanying workaround, and was not really "rare".

When transcribing this situation, is it preferred to transcribe the "understood" 100 or the literal "loo"? I know the usual rule of thumb is "transcribe what you see" but using the "lookalike" characters in this case will render as complete nonsense for screen-readers and so on. (Imagine a screenreader reading this sentence: "There were loo children present in the crowd." It makes no sense. (-: )

I don't have a ready example here on WS that I've noticed this scenario on, but I have seen it on other not-yet-hosted-here typewritten documents. I'll see if I can hunt one down as an example.

--Mukkakukaku (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

Definitely in this case you should use 1 and 0 instead of l and O. On the typewriters it makes sense to use the same button for both and let the glyphs be identical, but on WS characters are encoded separately so it no longer makes sense. Essentially you should treat lOO as a 100 that has been rendered using a font where 1 and l look identical as do 0 and O, because that is the thinking that prompted the typewriter manufacturers to make that design decision in the first place. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:40, 24 November 2016 (UTC)

ProofreadPage scripts in Translation namespace

I've noticed that ProofreadPage doesn't add page numbers or Source links in the Translations namespace. There are a handful of user translations using the ProofreadPage extension, including one I am working on currently (Index:Frenchnurseryrhy00bcfruoft.djvu). Does anyone know how to get these scripts running in that namespace in addition to mainspace? Should it be reported in Phabricator or something along those lines? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:00, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

I would have thought that page numbers would have been applied by Mediawiki:PageNumbers.js. For the source link, someone will need to ask Tpt, and I would think that it would be a phabricator ticket whether it is a an extension change or a local configuration change. — billinghurst sDrewth 15:24, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

PageNumbers.js bombs out 'cause no table.pr_quality. —unsigned comment by 101.175.171.234 (talk) .

@Phe, @Tpt: are you able to provide guidance here? — billinghurst sDrewth 00:18, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

Move a page from mainspace to Page space

I moved Page:Canada-Margriet-hospital-extraterritorial.png/1 to the Page namespace a while ago, but it isn't behaving correctly for a Page page. Can I fix this while preserving page history? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:14, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

The content model is wrong but I cannot succeed in changing it (during one of my attempts I moved it to Page:Canada-Margriet-hospital-extraterritorial.png).— Mpaa (talk) 14:20, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Moved back to Page:Canada-Margriet-hospital-extraterritorial.png/1.— Mpaa (talk) 14:32, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Done — billinghurst sDrewth 15:19, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

Help with HTML code

Hello, I created this page (link to the page), but with "spaghetti" HTML code, so it would be nice if someone look at it and improved that HTML code to something normal. Thanks. --Human. (talk) 01:52, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Done — Ineuw talk 07:21, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Existing page is not recognized when attempting to link

This page exists and has been validated. But when I try to link the Table of contents' first entry Chapter XXII the "page 1" entry, it creates the same page. I assume that this is a cache issue, which I tried to clear but to no avail. — Ineuw talk 06:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

A Spurious Unicode character had somehow become inserted into the page number entry. Fixed ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:05, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Index:A campaign in Mexico.djvu in the main namespace

This book Index:A campaign in Mexico.djvu is 75 pages with approx 400 words per page in a single chapter, something which I have never come across before. How do we display it in the main namespace? — Ineuw talk 07:39, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

All on the one page would be by recommendation. It is what I have done with other works. Even had chapters of that length. Necessary evil. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:07, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks. — Ineuw talk 16:45, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Removing old pages from the deleted Index file page.

Deleted the previous copy of Index:Life in Mexico vol 1.djvu and managed to upload the new correct copy to the commons. But the old pages are still showing in the index namespace. Could someone help to remove them so that I can use the new version from the commons? The 20 proofread pages were copied out, so they won't be lost. Thank you. — Ineuw talk 09:05, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Help with index page

I am working with File:The Golden Hamster Manual.djvu.

I tried to set up Index:The Golden Hamster Manual.djvu.

The index page is developing various errors which I do not see addressed at Help:Beginner's_guide_to_Index:_files. I just uploaded this file from Internet Archive using an automated tool. Can someone help me sort my index page? Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 22:53, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

My guess is that there is some sort of error in the DjVu itself. Normally, such a file would have one of more pages visible even at Commons, and you would be able to navigate the pages there. But I am not familiar enough with DjVu format to suggest a remedy. You may need to re-upload the file using a different method. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:15, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: Is it not a requirement to upload in djvu format? Archive.org gives me options to download as pdf, epub, and some others, but I thought per Help:Internet Archive djvu was required. Can I use another filetype? Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:01, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Hmm - per Wikisource:DjVu_vs._PDF I can use PDF. If I do that, will my index page be index:whatever.pdf? Just switch the djvu for pdf? Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:04, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, if you use PDF, then just change the extension for the Index page when you create it. However, we do prefer DjVu. It may be that the transfer was done incorrectly with the DjVu, and if it's the transfer process that is the problem, then the PDF may be similarly affected if you use the same procedure. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:12, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey, @Bluerasberry: See https://archive.org/download/TheGoldenHamsterManual, there is no djvu at IA for this work. Hrishikes (talk) 02:32, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

@Hrishikes: I was expecting that Archive.org generated djvu files from uploaded pdfs. Do they no longer do that?

commons:user:Amitie 10g sorted it this time and it seems to render here, except for some reason the images on the first two pages are not displaying. Hmm... At least I can get started proofreading. I think that resolves my immediate Wikisource problem. Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:48, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

IA no longer generates djvu. However, I have fixed the file, now the index should be ok. Hrishikes (talk) 02:50, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Done I got support from many people and now the file is fixed. The Wiki community is MAGIC. Thank you all. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:14, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Usurping a redirect

I have nearly finished proofreading Aaron's Rod by D. H. Lawrence. Aaron's Rod is currently a redirect to a Britannica article. It has no incoming links. Can I just take it over or is there some process I need to follow? Thanks, BethNaught (talk) 11:44, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@BethNaught: The root page becomes a {{disambiguation}} page, and your work would become Aaron's Rod (Lawrence) (or similar). See Help:Disambiguation which explains that we don't follow the WP rule of dominance, instead about the root becoming disambiguation. This allows for versioning, etc. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:23, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. I've tried now to make the disambiguation page, is it OK? BethNaught (talk) 11:31, 18 December 2016 (UTC)

About '—' sign and spaces around it

When proofreading pages of index:Boys Life of Booker T. Washington.djvu, I, when encountering symbols '—', put whitespaces before and after it, because I see that spaces are provided in the scanned page, though they are smaller than usual whitespaces (for example those ones that are placed between neighboring words). But I have noticed that other users don't do this (don't put those spaces to that sign at all). And I think: Maybe I did something wrong and these spaces should not be put around that sign at any case (I have thought before that they should not be put only if they are absent at all, on the original scanned pages). Maybe there is a common way on this matter, accepted by consensus of the English Wikisource editors? P. S. I can fix my edits where I did that, if needed (if those spaces are considered excessive). --Nigmont (talk) 12:03, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

@Nigmont: We don't usually put whitespaces either side of an em dash, as per Help:Style guide#Formatting. — billinghurst sDrewth 12:26, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for clarification. I'm sorry that I missed this before in the rules. --Nigmont (talk) 12:40, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

Original translation of foreign-language public domain work probably never translated into English

Hi! A fellow Wikipedian emailed me and asked if I could help translating material that I am not allowed touch on English Wikipedia at the moment per the terms of a TBAN after I appeal the ban, and I suggested that I could also either do it for him off-wiki or perhaps put it on Wikisource. I looked around and found WS:T#Wikisource original translations, which appears to allow for such. But I was wondering about a few things:

1. How much research am I expected to do to verify that a work has "never before been translated into English"?
2. Are original translations allowed when we know there is a pre-existing one but it is difficult to access or can't be used the way we want to for copyright reasons? (The user I was in contact with is concerned that a Wikipedia article they wrote is pushing the limits of fair use by quoting published translations of nine Japanese poems.)
3. Does "works that are incomplete and abandoned for long periods" necessarily include translations of several poems in a sequence or anthology that could be taken as complete works in themselves, or would that be dealt with on a case-by-case basis?

Hijiri88 (talk) 04:40, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

There's no requirement that a work has never before been translated into English; we do allow for "new, complementary translations that may improve on existing versions in some way." Generally speaking, poems can be counted as stand-alone works.--Prosfilaes (talk) 06:57, 16 December 2016 (UTC)

@Prosfilaes: Thank you. Any idea what kind of license we are supposed to put on Wikisource original translations or how we are supposed to mark them as such? I've been trying to find an example, but... Hijiri88 (talk) 01:56, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

If they are Wikisource-generated translations (ie. volunteer), then they belong in the Translation: ns where we put the original licence, then either {{cc-by-3.0}} or {{cc-by-4.0}}. I would have hoped that it was covered at Wikisource:Translation. — billinghurst sDrewth 14:19, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

One question I have though: Are the original works still under copyright in the original language? If they are still under copyright, then we won't host translations of them, because that constitute infringement of the copyright. Also, to host a user-created English translation, the original language published text must be hosted on the Wikisource for that language, with a supporting scan. So, if you plan to do original translations here of Japanese poetry, then the original Japanese poems (a) must have been published, (b) must have a scan of the original at Commons, (c) must be transcribed and housed at the Japanese Wikisource. Unless these criteria are met, we would not host an English translation here that was created by an editor. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:31, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

@EncycloPetey: Well, I was hoping to worry about that when I actually start working, but they were published more than a thousand years ago and have been in circulation pretty much ever since, and I was planning on using the text on Japanese Wikisource as my translation source. All I've got done so far is most of the table of contents at User:Hijiri88/Shūi Wakashū, which is translated from ja:拾遺和歌集. (Actually this isn't the work I was originally asked to translate, the Zashiki Hakkei songs, which are more obscure and probably not on ja.wikisource yet, and arr somewhat newer -- only around 200 years old -- so I'd need to check their copyright status with someone more learned before posting them.) Hijiri88 (talk) 11:36, 24 December 2016 (UTC)

New user - request for early feedback

I am still finding my way here. I have been working on Index:The Golden Hamster Manual.djvu and I am writing to request some initial feedback.

1. Page:The Golden Hamster Manual.djvu/9 - here is a typical page. Is everything here formatted correctly, and is it right for me to tag this one for proofreading? Is the page number at the bottom correct, and do I need to repeat this page numbering in the footer for every page or is there an automatic numbering system?
2. Page:The_Golden_Hamster_Manual.djvu/10 - Can I mark a page as needing proofreading if I am using raw images instead of processed images? When there is text in an image, should I transcribe that somewhere, or should it only remain in the image?
3. Page:The_Golden_Hamster_Manual.djvu/6 - There are lists in various places in this book, such as this table of contents. Can someone provide an example on 1 line for how I can address this, so that I can copy the process elsewhere?

Thanks - I am feeling comfortable with this and am hoping to get through this book. Blue Rasberry (talk) 15:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

1. This looks great. If you put {{center|—{{{pagenum}}—}} in the "Footer" field of the index page, it will automatically put the formatted page number in the footer for you on each newly created page. This page can be marked proofread.
2. If you have raw images instead of processed images, mark the page as problematic. You don't have to transcribe the text in the image, but you can if you want; useful templates for that are {{figure}} and {{overfloat image}}.
3. The simplest way to do TOC entries like this one is with {{Dotted TOC line}}: {{Dotted TOC line||Adult Male|Cover}}

You're doing great! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:39, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement, guidance, and for doing an example line.

Can you say more about how the pagenum template works? I inserted it at Index:The_Golden_Hamster_Manual.djvu but it is returning a red link. It seems that template:pagenum does not exist, so I could not find the documentation. Blue Rasberry (talk) 00:19, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

It's not a template, but rather a magic word (I think). Note that there are three curly braces instead of two; {{{pagenum}}} instead of {{pagenum}}. I don't know if it can be reasonably be used beyond what I have described, using it on the Index page in the header or footer field to automatically populate the value in the Page namespace. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:58, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

I edited the page for you so you can see the minor edit that I made. You had the right idea. The values of parameters which can be fed to a template are represented in the template code by items enclosed between triple braces. Just a tip, don't get hung up over formatting, as long as it's consistent throughout the text it should be fine. Rochefoucauld (talk) 02:02, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

@Bluerasberry: As Rochefoucauld correctly says, it is a magic-word that is built-in to ProofreadPage, and as also stated it doesn't comply with standards <shrug> but it is that or nothing at this point of time. From memory it is documented over at mul:Wikisource:ProofreadPage. AND I never remember what it is, so I have it recorded on my user page and I go and look. <more shrug> — billinghurst sDrewth 14:26, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Roman History confusion

So, many years ago I put up a copy of Ammanius' Roman History, as an index. I worked on it, and I am coming back to it now due to recent edits being done on it. But I am in need of some help: we have a Tertullian project work of it on here, and the text is the same, but I would like if we could scrap the Tertullian page and its subpages, and let me build up the work from the Index. This way we can hopefullly declutter the pages on WS of this book, and have a unified namespace for the index. - Tannertsf (talk) 19:51, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

It would be easier to assess and advise if you provide wikilinks to the relevant locations. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:41, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Index:Roman History of Ammianus Marcellinus.djvu and Roman History - Tannertsf (talk) 01:25, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

While these appear to be different printings in different years, and from different publishers, there is nothing I can see to indicate that they are different editions. In fact, it looks as though someone did a "match-and-split" to fill the pages in the index file, rather than relying on the OCR. I'd agree that replacing the unsourced copy with the sourced one would be a good idea, but the work will need a lot of formatting before it can be transcluded. We have a new editor, who is eagerly helping, but who does not seem to know about headers, nor how to format footnotes for transclusion. Those issues will need to be attended to before the current copy can be transcluded over. --EncycloPetey (talk) 02:15, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Yeah the recent edits are not too great. But, I understand when someone is new here. But why can't we just erase the old work and then when the index is proofread transclude it? - Tannertsf (talk) 13:21, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

What we normally do is proofread the scans, and then put them up in place of the older ones. Taking the old one down first means depriving users of access to a work, and there is no telling how long it would be before the new copy was ready to be used. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:34, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Okay sounds like a good plan. Thanks for the help! - Tannertsf (talk) 16:30, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

Patching Works with Lacuna

I was going to take a look at some of the source file needs fixing works, having fixed up a work recently.

Would it be acceptable for Wikisource purposes to insert "placeholder" pages, until someone can find the relevant missing pages, but upgrading the works concerned to "To be Proofread status?.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:31, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

Creating a template

I am requesting for some help, from template creators. I am working in Bengali Wikisource, on a big dictionary. In this work, Western diacritics like breve, tilde, caron etc have been used above Bengali characters, to show pronunciation. I am stumped about how to achieve this effect. Using unicode for "combining breve above" and the like results into white boxes or invisible display. So a template is required. Something like {{dual line}} or {{sfrac nobar}}, with lower line in alignment with the rest of the text, with normal font size & height, with the upper line floating above it. Say, {{Float above}}. Can anyone help? Thanks, Hrishikes (talk) 02:50, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Are you sure such a thing doesn't already exist? Something like an IPA for Bengali used by linguists? Seems like you're trying to reinvent the wheel. (Also, whatever you do, please remember your poor mobile users!) --Mukkakukaku (talk) 03:46, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku: In the page you cited, diacritics like tilde are shown in-between Bengali characters, not above. I am trying to achieve the above effect, not between. Hrishikes (talk) 04:33, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

To me this is one of the cases where I (the curmudgeon) would have been looking to be doing what is practicable and usable, not looking to have a facsimile copy of a work. The templates that I have seen are artefacts of putting decorative aspects over or under. — billinghurst sDrewth 08:07, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

So you are saying that where the book shows ã, I should transcribe a~, in case of Bengali characters? Hrishikes (talk) 10:31, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Short of using a custom font, I can't think of a solution that wouldn't be terrible from a usability perspective for your mobile users, incomprehensible to your screen reader/visual assist users, and a nightmare to maintain. It seems like the modern convention is to put the diacritics between characters rather than above. I think this is analogous, in English, to the ligature characters (which we no longer use in transcription, eg the attached ct.). --Mukkakukaku (talk) 13:08, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

I have solved the issue, to some extent, with some advice from another friend. There is a special characters (diacritical marks) box accessible from the advanced toolbar. Clicking the mark from there adds it, even to a Bengali character. But the result is appreciable in Firefox only, not in Chrome. Anyway, why are you thinking that a custom font will be required? If a template can be created as I said, that is likely to solve the issue for all browsers, including mobiles, I think. I don't have knowledge about the technicality involved, else I would have tried. Hrishikes (talk) 13:56, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Historically, our templates are not a very good experience on mobile, as the average editor tends not to be a web developer. A custom font, or images, is the best way with to implement a consistent experience across multiple browsers and multiple types of users (screen readers, mobile, tablet, desktop) with the least amount of necessary technical knowledge. Either way, I would advocate the modern solution of a horizontal display of character and diacritic, which appears to be how these sorts of letters are displayed today. However if the special characters diacritic box javascript fails gracefully to a horizontal appearance, I'd say go for that instead. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 16:51, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

This is as close as I can come to a solution on short notice:

˘অ

. I can't speak to how well it'll work on mobile, and it doesn't degrade gracefully for screen readers (the diacritic is written left of the letter instead of to the right), and you need to wrap the paragraph in <div></div>, but it's a start, I suppose. And it looks the same in Chrome. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 17:15, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks a lot, but there is a space on both sides: সি

~এ

ক্‌ল্ Hrishikes (talk) 17:48, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

The left and right margin/padding will need to be adjusted. Bengali letters are placed snugly side by side, unlike latin characters.

That being said, it's going to be a spectacularly complicated template because it's going to have to be very sensitive to the diactritic being used. The vertical displacement I used was perfectly acceptable for the breve I was using as a test case, but the tilde you used in yours is practically lying on top of its parent letter. The template would need a switch and logic such that the diacritic mapped to an appropriate amount of vertical space. Furthermore, I think that the appropriate amount of horizontal spacing also varies on the diacritic and base letter used, which is more complication.

I really do think you're better off putting the diacritic horizontally alongside the Bengali letter as per the modern convention. --Mukkakukaku (talk) 18:34, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

The Unicode Combining diacritics are the technically correct solution, and should in theory display right. If they don't, I don't think any HTML magic is going to do better.--Prosfilaes (talk) 19:32, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

@Mukkakukaku, @Prosfilaes: Problem solved beautifully with {{Letter position}}: সিএ~ক্‌ল্ Hrishikes (talk) 03:59, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Older Projects Needing Validation

I'm looking for guidance on better practices on these relatively abandoned projects. If the html "big" "/big" pair are used, would it be better to replace, even on validated pages, with the corresponding "larger" templates?

Also, ran into the double "the the" situation. This has probably been asked in past years but would like today's answer. I used SIC template, marking the second as "duplicate". Is there perhaps a better way to handle this? Humbug26 (talk) 20:49, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

For double "the", I would use this: the the, rather than adding the text "duplicate". When using {{SIC}}, simply mark the incorrect text with the corrected text and nothing else, whenever possible. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:30, 29 December 2016 (UTC)

Thanks, page adjusted. Humbug26 (talk) 18:28, 30 December 2016 (UTC)