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Need to replace 1843 edition with a 1905 edition[edit]

This book was published in 1843 at a time when the first of his letters was not yet found anywhere.

It seems that the missing first letter was found by 1905 and was published in two volumes containing all five letters. These books are named "Letters of Cortes" I don't know what to do with the first one. Personally, I think that it should be deleted.

Your input is most appreciated.— Ineuw talk 03:14, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wikisource can accommodate multiple editions of a work. The 1843 could stay, but it would certainly be lower priority if the later edition is the same, just with the extra letter. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:17, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks again.— Ineuw talk 04:50, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Incidentally, I would go further and assert that every edition should be on Wikisource; it's just that given limited resources, only the "best" edition may be a realistic goal. --Xover (talk) 18:42, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agatha Christie[edit]

The Agatha books are " copyrighted in the USA till 2019 " . I do not live in the U.S , and 2019 has arrived ; Then why are the links not there ? 10:45, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Because they are not out of copyright outside the US, Christie died in 1976, by current copyright rules, her work will not leave copyright until 2047 at the earliest, (irrespective of the situation in the US). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:11, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Addendum: Links and texts do not magically appear because of a date change. For a text to be available on Wikisource, a volunteer has to proofread a copy of the text and add it to Wikisource. That process requires someone to volunteer to do the work, and then time to accomplish the task. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:55, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Further addendum: after purging the page, the list of works should show up as redlinks now. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:29, 1 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Linking people mentioned in TOC pages - when not in Author: entries here?[edit]

I'm looking at the TOC of a work that includes stories, poems, and illustrations. Handling the 'authors' is straightforward when near all have Author: entries at WS. Handling the 'illustrators' is rather more of a problem, as only one was an author. (Leighton having an author entry is strange to me).

Is it reasonable to link to WP for these non-authors? For instance, w:Robert Anning Bell has a WP article, as does w:Aubrey Beardsley, w:Joseph Pennell, etc. Shenme (talk) 02:18, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Why would you link to Author pages in the ToC? That would mean making external links from the ToC of a work, which the user will expect to be links internal to the work. The Author pages can be linked from the header pages of the individual items; there is no reason to link the authors from the ToC. A Table of Contents should link to parts of the work, not to external targets. --EncycloPetey (talk) 04:19, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Introducing a rule implying external links from a work are deprecated constitutes a statement of policy neither supported nor forbidden by our current policy. I am not saying EncycloPetey is "wrong" here but this is a guideline I would generally approve… yet in specific cases ignore as unrealistically restrictive. The matter needs further discussion and subsequent detailed changes to policy. 06:01, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You've misunderstood my comments, and you've also pointed to the wrong policy. The relevant page is at Wikisource:Wikilinks. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey: You are quite correct. I am still a little concerned that because Wikisource:Wikilinks links to WS:MOS but not the reverse; and the general similarity of the introductory language can lead to ambiguous interpretations. There is a fundamental conflict remaining between "transcription purism" and the risk of lost opportunity for the proof-reader who is closest to the work noting matters of later confusion (an author wring in 1898 referring the the "Prince"…could be referring to Machiavelli's work, their local royalty, current British royalty or a frivolous exaggeration but with a very high degree of certainty almost none of the possibilities listed in w:Prince (disambiguation) (or vastly worse q:Q225225!)… and it seems a shame to miss the chance of offering a clarification. This issue is intractable, yet it seems the community is happy to permit mechanical extraction of wikidata linkage into Author pages. Sad. 00:48, 2 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Shenme: the relevant documentation is Wikisource:Wikilinks and Wikisource:Annotations. EncycloPetey's recommendations are worth considering, but are not mandatory; links to pages in Author namespace are not considered annotations and can be freely added to the text at the proofreader's discretion. Links to Wikipedia are considered annotations, however, and should follow the annotation guidelines. However, Author pages for illustrators such as Author:Frederic Leighton are totally acceptable, and pages can also be created in Portal namespace for individuals who have never created any content that can be hosted on Wikisource, but for whom relevant related content exists. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:20, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In most situations, I would agree. Linking to Author pages from within a text, especially from footnotes or appendices, or from places where that author's works are being referenced, is a fine thing. But in linking Author pages from the Table of Contents, you are violating a user's expectations. One would normally expect links from the Table of Contents to link to parts of the work itself. --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:59, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It would reassure me to know that you had looked at the two example pages. Certainly the chapters/articles have links from TOC to in-work individual items. This is as expected. Someone previously had linked the authors' names in the first page. I found this useful. When seeing Leighton's name unlinked in the second page I wanted the same ability to ask "who is this somewhat familiar name? Oh, that guy."
There is minimalism - what are the fewest, absolutely required things to enable reading. Anything else done is an additional benefit to some portion of 'users', or readers. A reader has some expectations against the required minimums. A reader will not be harmed by exceeding the minimums.
As an example, the work in question has a mix of articles from several authors. After A Defence of Cosmetics, I'll be glad to avoid any further works by that author. A quicker link from the TOC obviates having to go the article first, and the author link there, only to back out twice over.
This is a wiki. Wikis were to break conventions/restrictions enforced by physical media, yes? I fail to see the astonishment, much less harm, in linking attributions found in the TOC. Shenme (talk) 19:15, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I had looked at the two example pages, yes.
Exceeding the minimums can harm the reader when the excess violates expectations. And, no, wikis do not exist solely to break conventions.
The purpose of a Table of Contents is to inform the reader of the contents of that work. When the items in the ToC are linked, the expectation is that there is content in that work to which the link will take the reader. When a link in the Contents links to something other than Contents, that is a violation of expectation.
It would reassure me to know that you read and understood my comments on this issue. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:25, 31 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I see there being two issues here. 1) Linking to authors/illustrators from a TOC; and 2) How to link to authors/illustrators who don't currently have a page here.

For the first, I agree with EP that TOC links that go outside of the work should be kept to a minimum. Those links belong where they appear in the text—usually, at the beginning of the subwork (remembering that they should appear in the header on the transclusion, so may not be needed in the Page: namespace).

For the second, based on the long-established policy already in situ at Help:Index pages#Parameters, Illustrators should have an Author: page. Any links required to a wikipedia can happen from that page. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 04:34, 2 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Template source code[edit]

In the template Helpme, it's given that after helping, I need to insert {{tlf|helpme}}. I would like to know where the source code of that page is present.Adithyak1997 (talk) 06:08, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Adithyak1997: All templates' source can be found at [[Template:Template name]] so the source code for the tlf template is at Template:tlf. However, I'm uncertain why Template:helpme recommends using it: it appears to simply be intending to remove the transclusion, presumably to remove it from the category that is automatically added. Simply removing the helpme template will have the same effect, and leaving behind the wikicode "{{helpme}}" seems rather pointless. Maybe it would be better to have a answered=yes parameter for this? --Xover (talk) 09:00, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's a suggestion for if you want to indicate that the Helpme template had been used, but no longer need help. {{tlf}} is just one way to do this; you could use {{tl|helpme}} or {{tlf|helpme}} or <nowiki>{{helpme}}</nowiki> or I had a [[Template:Helpme]] notice here but I don't need help any more thanks — I don't think we need to add another method with a parameter. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:22, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Indentation options[edit]

At this page over at the Portuguese Wikisource, I am wondering the best way to indent text without having an available template. I would like indentation to resemble the original. They do not yet have block center over there (nor do they have Gap), so right alignment would be too drastic. I am opting (for now) not to use the poem tag in hopes that I'll get the ball rolling at some point there to add a block center template that behaves like ours here (and spans more than one page). Any suggestions welcome. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:20, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would create a template, but in the absence of that I would probably use raw html to emulate {{gap}} <span style="display:inline-block; width:12em;">​</span> or to emulate {{center block}} <div style="position:relative; margin-right:auto; margin-left:auto;"></div>Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:34, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Muito obrigada @Beleg Tâl: :) I chose the former. I'll wait until a template is created to apply block center. Londonjackbooks (talk) 16:44, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Londonjackbooks: {{gap}} is all of three lines of template code, most of which is boilerplate:
<onlyinclude><span style="display:inline-block; width:{{{1|2em}}};">⁠</span></onlyinclude><noinclude> {{documentation}} </noinclude>
You can easily copy it over to ptws yourself (just drop the <noinclude>{{documentation}}</noinclude> if ptws lacks {{documentation}}; it doesn't affect functionality). {{center block}} is more complex, but still eminently copy and paste'able. --Xover (talk) 17:43, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: I am wincing over "easily" ;) I am technically nearly illiterate. But I have to ask... I always use {{block center}} vice center block... What are the main differences in the templates (in layman's terms)? Thanks Londonjackbooks (talk) 17:59, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Here's the more honest answer: I can probably figure out how to transfer the template over. I did so some years ago with a template from WS to WB with lots of help and instruction which I have since forgotten, but looking at the history now does not help me much. In the years that have passed, I may have become somewhat lazier in the brain; or at least I may lack the motivation I had then. I would require explicit instruction once again, and if anyone is willing to instruct me with much patience, I may be up to giving it a shot :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 18:13, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
AFAIK the difference is: {{block center}} uses table styles for backwards compatibility, whereas {{center block}} uses block styles per modern web design best practices. It should look the same most of the time but it might display differently if you are playing with margins, indents, or other scenarios. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:45, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Londonjackbooks: does pt:Predefinição:Bloco centro not do what you are looking for? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:36, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beleg Tâl: No, I don't believe it can span several pages, and there are other differences I was told made it not a desirable option. I'll have to look for the discussion. Here is a mention: "bloco centro is <div> block based while block center is table based (different HTML structure is used)." [1] Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:08, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Londonjackbooks: I have created pt:Predefinição:Bloco centro/c = {{center block/s}} and pt:Predefinição:Bloco centro/f = {{center block/e}}. Like {{center block}} it is div-block based rather than table based, which is preferable in almost all cases. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:27, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beleg Tâl: I tried applying it on this page, but I'm not seeing a desired result. I'm used to block center though... Am I doing something wrong? Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:41, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Londonjackbooks: My bad, typo in template, fixed now. (Also I was wrong, bloco centro is table-based like {{block center}}) —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:46, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beleg Tâl: Great! Thanks! An undesired line space is present before the last line of poetry in each Page:namespace, but it seems to work itself out in the Main. Londonjackbooks (talk) 21:02, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know anything about that line space, it happens to me on enWS too —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:12, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also pt:Predefinição:Brecha appears to be essentially {{gap}} —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:46, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beleg Tâl: Thanks for finding that :) Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:16, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Londonjackbooks: On {{block center}} vs. {{center block}} I'm not much help. They purport to do the same thing, but the former claims to do it in a technically better way. How that shakes out in practice I don't know. As for copying, I'll use {{gap}} as an example:
  1. Go to Template:gap (the page you're actually referring to when you use {{gap}}).
  2. Hit "Edit" (or, for protected templates, "View source").
  3. Select all the text in the text field and copy it.
  4. Open pt:Predefinição:gap (or replace "gap" with a suitable name in Portugese. "lacuna" perhaps?).
  5. Hit the "Edite esta página" link.
  6. Paste the copied template code into the text field.
  7. Hit the "Pubicar página" button.
  8. Use {{gap}} (or {{lacuna}} or {{hiato}} or whatever you used in #4 above).
The short version: copy the template code from Template:template name in English on enWS to Predefinição:template name in Portugese on ptWS. Use with {{template name in Portugese}}.
This works for all simple templates. Some templates use other templates, or require combinations of templates, or do funny things with namespaces, etc. which make them work poorly or not at all when copying like this. But most simple formatting templates should be doable.
(edit-conflict) Also: what Beleg Tâl said. :) --Xover (talk) 18:56, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: Thank you. I will take a look at the instructions above in more detail tomorrow. In addition, it is also desirable to retain the template's history when bringing it to another sister project. Someone linked the history for me [somehow] the time I copied a template from WS to WB. Londonjackbooks (talk) 20:20, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
An edit summary ala "Copied from s:Template:gap." is sufficient for attribution requirements. To actually preserve edit hiistory you need to get an administrator to import, not copy, the template over. It's done using Special:Import by someone who has the "transwiki-import" permission; and import from enWS must be enabled on ptWS (which it isn't currently, I don't think). You'll need to point a friendly admin there at the documentation at m:Import to set it up. (a pain to initially set up, but it makes future imports much easier). --Xover (talk) 20:31, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

/* Problematic */ TOCStyle won't format correctly[edit]

Page:The Outline of History Vol 2.djvu/16

I've typed this logically, and it fails to format per the documentation of that template - Suggestions please? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:39, 4 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Once again the error proved to be a 'hunt' the obscure indexing error. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:47, 4 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A newbie's questions: headers and footers in Wikisource pages[edit]

I am an experienced w:Wikipedia:WikiGnome. My favourite WikiProject (w:WP:DPL) has gone from cut down the jungle (before my time) through drain the swamp (about when I joined) to (now) trim the grass. I have started to look for useful WikiGnomish things to do in Wikisource.

I am about halfway through turning a hundred-plus bot-scanned pages like Page:Gedichte Hesse 1919.djvu/99 from gibberish into German. The transcription is easy, and I think I'm beginning to get the hang of Wikisource-specific templates like {{c}}, the {{larger}} family, {{gap}} and {{dhr}}.

My questions are these. Should the published page number be part of the transcribed text or be placed elsewhere? Should the language be included somewhere? Is there anything else I should know before going back to the top of this group and starting to mark the pages as proofread?

(Hermann Hesse won the Nobel Prize for Literature for his prose, most definitely not for his poetry. It's dreadful stuff. Still, that book is out of copyright and has been uploaded; so, we might as well get it right.)

Open offer: if any editor would like someone to review pages originally printed in w:Fraktur, I'd be happy to help. Narky Blert (talk) 00:25, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ummm. . . That's in German, and should be hosted at the German Wikisource, not on the multilingual Wikisource. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:22, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hermann Hesse died in 1968; works that are PD-US but not PD-70 are accepted at the Multilingual Wikisource for Wikisources like the German Wikisource that only accept works that are PD-70.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:14, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Narky Blert: The page numbers, as artefacts of the physical medium of a book, as well as the running title/author/otherstuff that's repeated at the top or bottom of every page in the book should be placed in the header and footer text fields. They are also strictly speaking optional, but I think the general de facto consensus behaviour is to transcribe these bits as well. The header/footer text fields will be displayed on each page in the Page: namespace, but are wrapped in <noinclude> and won't be displayed when the pages are transcluded together into the overall work's page in mainspace. Or put another way, in the Page: namespace the focus is somewhat stronger in the direction of preserving the characteristics of the original, while in mainspace the focus is somewhat stronger in the direction of producing a new edition that takes advantage of the modern medium. As an example, page numbers are mostly irrelevant in a web edition; and to the degree they're needed they are generated automatically by software based on the information in the Index: page for the work.
As for the language, as EncycloPetey says, works primarily in German should be transcribed at German Wikisource. Language tagging for the main language is thus not necessary: all works on English Wikisource are presumably in English. However, runs of non-English text in the work should generally be tagged with an appropriate {{lang}} template (for the usual reasons). Practice here seems to be variable, with some guidance and practice running to only tagging those specific instances where the non-English text requires a different font or other special display, but I recommend tagging all such instances for the same reasons they do so over at enwp.
Finally, Wikisource has, by nature, an infinite amount of gnoming type work. Quite apart from the bazillion and one started but never finished transcription projects, there are a great many works that have been transcribed (Proofread) but never Validated. Attacking either of these backlogs would be immensely valuable. There are also a lot of works that are in the public domain and have scans available but where nobody has got around to uploading and transcribing them yet. Organizing work around these, somewhat like EncycloPetey has done for Portal:The Yale Shakespeare (think of Portals as roughly analogous/similar to WikiProjects on enwp) would also be of great value.
I'm a relatively new enwp-expat here myself, so if there're any issues that you think might be a translation issue between the two projects you should feel free to ping me. Not that I can claim any particular expertise on either project, but I've banged my head into at least some of the difference and might be able to point you in the right direction. Or, of course, the village pumps on enWS are a lot lower traffic and more useful than the enwp ones so you probably shouldn't hesitate to ask for any information or assistance you need here. --Xover (talk) 09:00, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover:. Thanks! (I'm getting up to speed by editing in areas where I can do some good and little damage. I thought it might make a refreshing change faithfully to reproduce the typos in original texts rather than to fix typos introduced by WP editors.)
How do I open the header and footer text fields for editing? On opening a page for editing, I can see the header field for a second or so, but then it disappears.
(Yes, I have seen the numbers in Category:Pages by proofreading status. They won't be easy to dent, but every little helps.) Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 20:33, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Narky Blert: The disappearing headers and footers is (probably) a result of task T209939, which should get rolled back in the deploy scheduled for 7–8 January (ish). I haven't tested myself, but someone said this happens only if you have the horizontal layout enabled in the preferences, so toggling that may be a workaround. It is apparently also just WebKit (Safari) and Chromium (Chrome, etc.) that are affected, so Firefox, IE, or Opera may also work. Personally I've been digging around in Web Inspector to turn off a font-size: 13px rule that applies to those text fields and without which the height becomes juuuust big enough to edit. In any case, it'll hopefully disappear in the next couple of days. --Xover (talk) 20:52, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: Ah yes, 'what could possibly go wrong?' I've seen similar at WP with complex Templates and with Wikidata imports.
I can't see the header box for editing in any of PaleMoon, WaterFox, Chrome (which I dislike) or IE (which I wouldn't use if you paid me).
Where does the 'horizontal layout' option hide itself? I haven't tested that, because I can't find it. Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 21:56, 8 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Narky Blert: In Preferences, in the Editing tab, "General options" section (first group of checkboxes). It's labelled "Horizontal layout when editing in the Page: namespace". But when I tried it out just now it had no effect on this problem. --Xover (talk) 06:49, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not all works on the English Wikisource are in English (en). They can also be in Scots (sco), Middle English (enm) or Old English (ang), and I suspect various English creoles could also find a home here.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:36, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

TOCstyle can't cope with inlined styles on page numbering...[edit]

A simple test case

|description:|<span style="font-variant:small-caps;">v</span>
  1. description:

This fails to render correctly. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:50, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ShakespeareFan00: The = is confusing MediaWiki's template processor. Replace it with {{=}}. --Xover (talk) 13:22, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks.. In the end I ended up using a the #tag function which also solved the issue of the equals sign. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:24, 9 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

number before dropped initial[edit]

Could I have a solution for this page, please? The dropped initial goes hard left by default? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 03:32, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes check.svg fixed Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:35, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The murder on the links[edit]

Agatha Christie's "Murder on the Links" requires proof reading . What does that mean ? 12:51, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Have a look at Help:Beginner's guide to proofreading, it should answer your questions on the subject. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:29, 11 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Beleg Tâl: The text is there , but I can't see the buttons that are supposed to be there . Can't someone else proofread it ? 005X (talk) 05:21, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone can proofread it. Wikisource is run by volunteers who donate their time freely. Anyone can volunteer to proofread the text. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:28, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey:Yes , but who will ? As I said before the buttons supposed to mean " proofread" or "validated" aren't there . 005X (talk) 05:31, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Aren't where? The buttons appear at the bottom of a screen when you are editing a page of the text. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:36, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey:Found the buttons , begun proofreading . Please validate the page once I have proofread it . 005X (talk) 05:41, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Validation is also done on a volunteer basis. My time right now is divided between a literary criticism of Virgil's poetry and a 1918 edition of Macbeth. But given the popularity of Agatha Christie's works, it is quite likely that someone will notice your work and begin validation before too long. --EncycloPetey (talk) 05:45, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey:Do you know any Christie enthusiasists in WS ? If so , then inform then about my work . unsigned comment by 005X (talk) .

Adding layouts and "proposed layouts"[edit]

Hi all. I occasionally contribute to en-wikisource and da-wikisource which is considerably smaller (~2800 mainspace pages). I've noticed that while da-ws has 3 different layouts (the view modes available under "Display Options" in the sidebar) for displaying texts, en-ws has a fourth one as well as one called "proposed layout". What does one have to do to add more layout types as well as the "Proposed Layout", and how does the latter work exactly? I've tried finding information at mw:Extension:Proofread Page, but so far I've come up short. Thanks in advance, --InsaneHacker (💬) 10:58, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Strictly the layout scheme has nothing whatsoever to do with ProofreadPage apart from the coincidence both schemes were originally the invention of User:ThomasV. I expect the documentation you are looking for might be Help:Layout, particularly sections starting at "How to write dynamic layouts" and below? 14:56, 12 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It helps with how to set up the actual CSS-coding, but I'm still at a loss on what one needs to do to the wiki config files to make new layouts appear for all users. --InsaneHacker (💬) 14:16, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page:London - White Fang, 1906.djvu/15[edit]

Would have used {{TOCstyle}} but there isn't an option to set a lead-prefix for the chapter numbering, nor a way to get the page numbering to left align instead.. A suggestion on how to format this would be welcomed, or updates to TOCstyle ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:10, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've taken a stab at it using a table. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:21, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Can also use {{ditto|III|I|r}} or {{0|II}}I in such cases —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:50, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Apropos of nothing, I bought and read this new in my teens (a reprint/new edition obviously). Suddenly realising that the book was actually written over a century ago makes me feel old! --Xover (talk) 07:04, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
On this site, over a century old is still pretty new for a book! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:57, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. But most texts here don't register as "New when I was a teenager" in my subjective model of the world. :) --Xover (talk) 17:44, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Aside: So what's the oldest work we have that's scan backed? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:53, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oldest scan I have come across recently is the 13th century manuscript Sumer is icumen in (MS Harley 978)Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:07, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, if later editions count, we have the 9th century BCE Inscription on the Stele of Méšaʿ as wellBeleg Tâl (talk) 20:10, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If we're counting translations, then the The Code of Hammurabi dates to 1772 BCE. We have a scan-backed edition with photos of the stone on which the inscriptions were made. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:43, 14 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proofreading EB1911, transclusion and section headings[edit]

I followed a footnote from English Wikipedia to 1911_Encyclopædia_Britannica/Masham,_Abigail,_Lady which (a) at the time was only showing the second half of the article, and (b) wasn't correctly linked from the preceding article 1911_Encyclopædia_Britannica/Maseru. My only edits on Wikisource so far are fixes to this. [2]

I'm raising this in case (A) section headings are being changed while proofreading, without checking 'What links here', as seemed to have happened December last year [3]; (B) Odd encyclopedia entries with two commas like 'Masham, Abigail, Lady' are producing unclear page titles. --Cedders (talk) 11:13, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Cedders, it was just a case of me forgetting to check for changed section tags when copying the proofed text from Gutenberg. Normally I specifically search for "section begin" when displaying the differences to check for altered tags, but must have forgotten in this case. I don't believe its anything to do with having two commas in the page title. DivermanAU (talk) 11:38, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Index:A_Son_at_the_Front_(1923)_Wharton.djvu and others...[edit]

This file and others are showing something that someone with the right tools could presumably write a script to resolve.

Namely that the whilst all the scans are present, the OCR text associated with them is apparently offset by a page meaning the OCR text and scan pages do not concur.

Ideally the DJVU files should be rebuilt carefully, as these OCR discrepancies may have resulted from "third-party" page removal in tools that are not necessarily as fully aware of the 'text-layer' capabilities of the djvu format as would be desirable.

Whilst I had been marking these for "Source file needs repairing", On review "Source needs OCR text layer" seems more appropriate.

Alternatively can someone come up with a suitable template tag I can use to categorize affected Index/File combinations appropriately. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:53, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ocr is ok here: Index:A Son at the Front, by Edith Wharton.pdf. Hrishikes (talk) 15:04, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OCR on that second PDF copy may be correctly aligned, but I looked at a few pages and the OCR for that copy is near garbage. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:50, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
New version of djvu uploaded. It is a bug in IAUpload tool, open in phabricator (I have proposed a fix but maintainer is not fixing it, so I worked out my own script).— Mpaa (talk) 23:13, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Care to look into other works in the "Source File needs to be repaired" and "Text Layer needed" cateogries? I think MANY files could be rescued quite easily. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:50, 15 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Murder on the Links[edit]

I have completed the proofread , now what do I do ? 005X (talk) 07:37, 16 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@005X: regarding The Murder on the Links, I advise that you leave it alone until the potential copyright issues are resolved. Once that is done, if we are able to keep the scan, the next step will be transclusion: Help:Beginner's guide to transclusionBeleg Tâl (talk) 23:23, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Text is out of alignment and off by one page[edit]

Starting from this page on to the end of the book ~300 pages are off by one page. Would it be possible to insert a single empty page at Djvu 502 and push all others to the correct alignment? — Ineuw talk 02:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What are you talking about? It seems like there is no problem from the 502nd to 503rd pages of the scan (aligning to pages 482 and 483 of the text). —Justin (koavf)TCM 03:16, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Koavf: Please look at the image of what I see on the screen. File:Misaligned text pages.jpgIneuw talk 03:40, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It took me a while to understand also. You mean the saved text of each page is off by one page. I was looking for a missing page. Maybe an admin can do something about it. Jpez (talk) 06:12, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ineuw: -- Yes check.svg Done -- Hrishikes (talk) 07:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Hrishikes: Many thanks!

Side by side columns over a page break[edit]

I have a text where there are two columns - effectively an original and a 'translation'. Both are several paragraphs of continuous text which flow over a page break. How can I practically do the layout for this? I can handle the first page using a table but see no obvious way to seamlessly 'join' both columns. See GreyHead (talk) 18:33, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's a bit tricky, but you could use sections to divide the separate text regions for transclusion. See Help:Transclusion. I'm using sections for the work I'm currently transcribing as well. --EncycloPetey (talk) 18:36, 26 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I suggest to ignore the fact that the table is divided into two pages and write the whole table just in one page. I do it with divided pictures (Page:An Anthology of Modern Bohemian Poetry.pdf/12). --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:05, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Adding pages to existing scanned book (Once A Week Volume II)[edit]

Hi — what should I do if I am looking through a scanned-and-indexed book and notice that some pages are missing? Would it be possible, if I have to insert two pages after scan number 140, to number them 140a and 140b? Levana Taylor (talk) 21:37, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It is correct to raise the issue here. Please post the Index page, which page number and where to find the missing pages. Page numbering will be taken care accordingly. Someone will fix it.— Mpaa (talk) 22:05, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. The problematic book is Once a Week, Series 1, Volume II Dec 1859 to June 1860. I haven't finished looking through it all yet, but the problems I so-far found are: two pages missing after scan no. 140 [it is pages 128 and 129 of the book that are missing]; scan no. 462 cannot OCR; from scan 218 onward existing OCR'd texts are not matched with the correct page image. As for a source for a scan, there is Google Books. Levana Taylor (talk) 22:19, 17 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: -- I have added the two missing pages. Now if you want a page move, please give specifics: start page number, end page number, increment order. Hrishikes (talk) 08:23, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Hrishikes: I had a look at this as well.. The first batch of re-alignment needs to start at Page:Once_a_Week,_Series_1,_Volume_II_Dec_1859_to_June_1860.pdf/141 currently this has the text for page 130, but the scan is for page 128, this misalignment continues to the text currently at Page:Once a Week, Series 1, Volume II Dec 1859 to June 1860.pdf/240. after which there are a further 2 missing pages that need to be added. I'm still looking into what the misalignment for subsequent pages is. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:08, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And there are plenty of other problems. The scan of 208 is in the right place, it is correctly followed by 209, but then we wrongly have 208 again, 209 again, and then 210 and so on as it should be. Then, where 225 ought to be, we have an image of 227 (but the same image is also in its correct place). Then, 228 and 229 are missing. 258 is followed by 261 then 260 then 261 again then 262 and 263, then we skip to 266, 267, 266 again, 267 again, then 268 onward are correct until 276 is followed by 279, 278, 281, 282, 281 again, 282 again. 283 and onward are OK, until 420 and 421 are missing and 422 & 423 appear twice. 502 and 503 are missing. Then later pages 512 and 513 appear twice. 602 and 603 are missing.
Let me summarize all that by naming ranges that have problems, starting and ending each range with pages that are correct. 207-210 ; 224-230 ; 258-268 ; 276-283 ; 419-424 ; 501-504 ; 511-514 ; 601-604.
Also the scans of 362 and 579 are bad (edge cut off), and the scan of 453 is crooked. That's all I see for now :-) Levana Taylor (talk) 11:15, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ShakespeareFan00, @Levana Taylor: -- Added pages 228 & 229. Replaced page 362. I did not find the other problems mentioned, may be a cache issue. Clearing the cache or opening in another browser should sort it out. Hrishikes (talk) 12:51, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You are right, rats, well, now I know which browser not to use. The different browser I tried did load the pages without skipping or repeating them.
I still think 579 and 453 need to be replaced, though. After that, all that remains is getting the texts back with the images they belong to. Thanks for your help! Levana Taylor (talk) 13:31, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a guide to where the OCR'd text of various pages has ended up:
  • From page 128 to 206, the text is two pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 209 to 225, the text is four pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 226 to 227, the text is two pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 230 to 243, the text is four pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 246 to 281, the text is six pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 282 to 299, the text is four pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 306 to 325, the text is six pages before the image. YesY
  • The text of page 340 is four pages before. YesY
  • The text of page 350 is four pages before. YesY
  • From page 406 to 423, the text is six pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 424 to 428, the text is four pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 452 to 456, the text is four pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 506 to 515, the text is four pages before the image. YesY
  • From page 606 to 622, the text is four pages before the image. YesY
  • Pages 619 to 622 are incorrectly marked "without text."
Levana Taylor (talk) 20:18, 18 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes check.svg DoneHrishikes (talk) 05:33, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much! I have checked the repaired areas, they are OK. I have removed the repair templates and the temporary page nubmers ... Levana Taylor (talk) 05:47, 19 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong page title[edit]

Index:The Book of the Aquarium and Cater Cabinet.djvu is clearly at the wrong page title: It should be at Index:The Book of the Aquarium and Water Cabinet.djvu. The text is also not linked on the author's page. The link that should go to this book is a redlink. How do I fix this? Thanks. Diadophis (talk) 03:38, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes check.svg Done Nice eye, Diadophis! —Justin (koavf)TCM 04:14, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Update on 1860 Once a Week: pages for special work[edit]

I'm making good progress in putting together this magazine volume, Once a Week Vol II, into a properly constructed form that will then only need proofreading. However, I've seen some pages that have formatting that I don't know how to do: tables, and images that are more complicated than mere full-width insertion (I can and do handle poems, though). I've marked all pages that are complicated as "problematic" in case anyone wants to look at them. Levana Taylor (talk) 14:10, 20 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

references with symbols[edit]

Is there a template that allows us to follow the style of the original document by indicating references with * † ‡ instead of numbers? Levana Taylor (talk) 17:22, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The "house" style here is to convert them all to numbers—see Help:Footnotes and endnotes. This is because when the text is transcluded the list of references goes to the end rather than displaying at each page. If we to use symbols, then there would multiple references with the same marker and the reader would not know which one applied in a particular case. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 17:29, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, that makes sense. But I thought maybe someone had programmed a template that would apply to the whole article and display the reference list with custom symbols instead of numbers. Levana Taylor (talk) 17:46, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That wouldn't solve the problem of multiply repeated symbols. There are more than a few limitations of physical printing-by-page that simply do not transfer well to electronic format. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:48, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Why would repeating symbols be a problem? the current system counts up the number of <ref> in the article and displays them in order as 1, 2, 3. Why couldn't it display them as * † ‡? Levana Taylor (talk) 17:59, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Imagine you have a text with 59 references across 100 pages. Each reference in the original is either * † or ‡. By numbering the footnotes, they can be numbered 1 through 59. If using symbols, there aren't 59 footnote symbols, so you would get two dozen * and a dozen † and a handful of ‡, all on the same page, and it would not be clear which * refers to which footnote. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:19, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I know, it wouldn't be useful for anything but a short piece with not more than 5 references (the number of traditional symbols — though you then go to **, ††, etc.). I will stop beating a dead horse now :-) Levana Taylor (talk) 19:07, 21 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Index:Field Book of Stars.djvu[edit]

Was looking at this.. Text is good, but the 'diagrams' seem clipped in the scans? Anyone good with SVG to be able to make 'repairable' versions? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:31, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like they're supposed to be like that —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Images can be taken from the Google-digitized version: and Example: c:File:A Field Book of Stars 131.jpg (taken from HathiTrust). -- Hrishikes (talk) 02:01, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Broken links to machine-translated text on an external site[edit]

What should we do about On some controversies regarding origin and nationality of Nezami Ganjavi? The Russian text has been released under a free licence, and a page has also been created here at ENWS, but only the abstract, keywords and contents page are in English. The bulk of the document is in the form of external links to Google Translate which are now broken. Even if the links could be fixed, it seems odd for Wikisource to be directing users to machine-translated text and for something to be "on" ENWS when it's actually on an external site. The research looks interesting, but if almost all of it is in Russian and not English, does it belong on English Wikisource? MartinPoulter (talk) 21:12, 22 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OCR is off by one page[edit]

In Index:Philosophical Transactions - Volume 053.djvu the OCR is off by one page: OCR for page 2 appears on page 1 and so on. Thanks in advance for any help. MartinPoulter (talk) 21:30, 23 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the file (that was wrong), but I think there is more to it. In djview text is aligned with pages but not in Index/Page. I think this is similar to what hapened with an EB199x Volume. Something goes wrong with how text is loaded, but we were not able to explain it (at least so I recall).— Mpaa (talk) 21:04, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Filed phab:T214729.— Mpaa (talk) 21:17, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Help with layout positioning[edit]

Can you help me make this page] look a little prettier? I've got two tables of contents positioned next to each other, using "float." I think they would look better with more space between them (that is, in a narrow window they would) and/or maybe a line between --how would I do that? Any other proposals for layout? Levana Taylor (talk) 04:01, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd merge the two lists, maybe something like this:
  • Part I
    • Chapter 1
    • Chapter 2
    • Chapter 3
  • Part II
    • Chapter 4
  • Part III
and so forth. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:50, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I still think parallel columns are preferable, but when you said "combine", I said, "Of course! I can put both lists in one table, and that'll give lots of formatting possibilities." The result was this, which I really like. Thanks for shaking my mind loose! Levana Taylor (talk) 17:35, 24 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Meat for Thrifty Meals[edit]

Can someone come up with a "better" solution for the images that have left or right captions? {{FIS}} doesn't seem to handle them cleanly...? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:28, 25 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Editor's comment" in EB1911 page[edit]

I've been doing some work in the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica, and came across this page:

It includes the following footnote added by a wiki editor: "EDITOR'S COMMENT (FEB. 2015): The date in 1815 given by the original text is wrong and should be the 8th of August."

They may be right about the date being wrong, but my understanding was that we digitise what's there, not correct it when it's wrong. Seems to me like we'd be adding a lot of footnotes to a 100-year-old encyclopedia if we did that. Should this footnote be removed? Chuntuk (talk) 01:07, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Chuntuk: you are quite correct. I have replaced the footnote with an HTML comment. You can also use {{SIC}} if desired, but I don't think that's desirable here since this is not a typo —Beleg Tâl (talk) 01:34, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would usually move comments like that to the talk page for the article. However, the claim is completely unsupported by any reference at all, which really makes it worthless as an emendation. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:37, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Parenthetical can't necessarily appear in a pagelist tag on an Index page..[edit]

I've mentioned this in a phabricator ticket here - and ( in respect of related issue).

However, the work-around (until the script is repaired), would be to amend the Index pages containing parenthesised page numbering inside a pagelist. So:-

  • Does anyone have a script which could at the very least identify ALL affected Index pages?
  • Could an appropriate edit-filter be implemented to check for this when an attempt is made to save an Index page?

Although it may also be possible to have an automated script 'repair' many of the affected Index pages, I'm not sure it would be able to do this reliably in some contexts. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:01, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Billinghurst: Per your closure of those tickets, you stated was this solely a local issue thus here would be the "appropriate" place for further discussions. One of the relevant documentation pages has been updated already. If you would like to outline work-arounds and solutions below, it would be appreciated.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:22, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Preliminary list of Index pages to repair is : with apologies for the lengthy escaped portion. Anyone want to go through this assist in resolving the issue? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:50, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I can’t parse the regex in the above comment to see where exactly the problem lies, but it seems to be producing some false positives. For example, the first item in the “list of Index pages to repair” is Index:United States Statutes at Large Volume 12.djvu, but that page does not use parentheses in any of its <pagelist> calls. Is it possible that the regex is flagging all pages that (1) call <pagelist> and (2) have a parenthesis anywhere on the page, whether or not it is part of the <pagelist> call? Because that would substantially overstate the number of pages that need to be repaired. Tarmstro99 19:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, the regexp isn't perfect. If you want to generate a better regexp, feel free, the current regexp was \<pagelist((.)*)\=((.)*)\(((.)*)\/\> . Thanks.. I estimate about 200 Index pages may be affected, The search generates 500 or so results and many false positives :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

vertically-centered asterisk?[edit]

I have been pretty successful so far in finding templates that reproduce the special typographic features used in the 1860 magazine I'm entering, but one I can't find is a largeish asterisk vertically-centered in the line. Levana Taylor (talk) 08:59, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: Problem solved by using Unicode &ff0a;. Levana Taylor (talk) 10:56, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Levana Taylor: You could also use {{...|3|*}} --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:46, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Fullwidth characters are not really for use in English texts; they're designed for use with Eastern Asian scripts that are inherently monospaced, and when Latin characters are stuck in, they are either halfwidth or fullwidth. EncycloPetey's solution is probably best.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:28, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, then that particular asterisk is not the right one. The main problem with the regular asterisk is that it's too small. Here is a comparison of the original with {{larger}} asterisks—quite good. And Once a Week (magazine)/Series 1/Volume 2/Where is the other?, various uses of enlarged ordinary asterisks in a story. Not bad, as long as I tweak the formatting enough. The pre-made templates are all wrong. Levana Taylor (talk) 05:00, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It looks to me like the original publication was simply using a font in which the asterisk * is larger than most fonts. For example this page has an unusually large but otherwise unremarkable asterisk for the note in the bottom left. It's not a different character, just a different font. For this reason, an ordinary * would be the best character to use here. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I'm sorry about asking such trivial questions. I haven't even tried the difficult things like tables yet.

Box formatting[edit]

Another question. Is there a help page explaining how to position text inside a box with a border? The documentation for Template:Frame doesn't explain how to change border properties or which other templates you can use inside it for positioning the text, and it looks like Template:Float box doesn't allow for anything very elaborate inside the box (I could be wrong). Levana Taylor (talk) 00:33, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

{{float box}} allows for arbitrary styling; do you have an example of what you're aiming for? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:57, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The pages in question are this and this. Levana Taylor (talk) 00:51, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Since that's just a border around the text in question, I would use {{border}} and then use regular formatting inside it, like so:

Knocker to Brown.


Happy Jones—communication—twins—come off at once. Be here to-day by 8·30 p.m. train. Immediate.

That's all that's needed. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:40, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I tried that on page 288 but something is wrong: why the big white space at the top? Also the text isn't quite horizontally-centered in the box and I couldn't figure out how to add some padding at the left. Levana Taylor (talk) 04:16, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: -- Yes check.svg Done -- Hrishikes (talk) 04:53, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Hrishikes: -- Thanks! I translated the width into ems, though; why did you use px? Levana Taylor (talk) 05:26, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: -- That is ok, px or em, whatever you like. But to note that curly quotes are against the house style. Also, the page should not be set to proofread status without the image. Hrishikes (talk) 05:48, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page Numbering anomaly part 3[edit]

Acts of the Constituent Assembly and Dominion Legislature of India 1949/Act1 This numbers from 4 because on the index page the last defined page in the previous page list was "3" (rather than 10 which would the DJVU page index), but does it say this is in the documentation? How am I expected to KNOW this is the expected behaviour by intuition or telepathy?

I was testing what happens with multiple page-lists on a single Index page.. The behaviour is not unexpected, but not seemingly clearly documented. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:22, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A deleted draft[edit]

After a disagreement on the language of a text, where we seemed to be reaching an understanding, I was going to move the text to my sandbox for then moving to the multilingual Wikisource. The text was marked with a template indicating the percieved language issue (part of the book is in English, and a larger part than I initially realised in a constructed language), but it didn't indicate any particular timeframe, or that the text would neccessarely be deleted (moving to a user subpage, as a draft, would otherwise be a possible option), if I remember correctly. I was also going to ask for second opinions, and normal disputed contributions are normally not deleted that fast in the Wikimedia projects I've been active in, so when going for dinner, I didn't expect much to happen this very same day, at least.

The communication from the editor has indicated that 1) he didn't make much effort checking his statements in the discussion on beforehand 2) he didn't make much effort in understanding what me as another editor wrote, which made the communication frustrating. The discussion can be found at my discussion page.

And then the same editor deleted the whole page.

I would be very happy about undeletion and moving to my sandbox or a subpage of the sandbox. Then I could use the edits I did to it. Undeleting, moving with history to user:flinga/sandbox/alteutonish, 1915 would have been excellent, but I would be grateful for any constructive help.

With regards, Flinga (talk) 19:14, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You were told repeatedly the work couldn't be hosted here because it was not in English. After 40 minutes of back and forth trying to get you to understand this, you finally agreed that only the introduction was in English. Then you say you suddenly went offline the moment you were told it would be deleted. How inconvenient. It seems that you are only here to cause trouble and disrupt the community. You still have access to the scan; it has a DjVu file with a text layer. Use that text layer on multilingual Wikisource. The English Wikisource does not host works written in artificially constructed languages. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:30, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey: Undelete it and I will import it to —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:45, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Koavf: done: Alteutonik. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:52, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey: Thanks. @Flinga: Please define the language at mul:Alteutonik. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:05, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The language is w:Tutonish, a "constructed language" like Esperanto or Klingon. (see the linked Wikipedia article) --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:10, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Both of you: Thank you very much! It is greatly appreciated.
EncycloPetey: I appreciate this last help very much. I have to say I don't really understand what's been our problem. I understand that you feel personally attacked in the last messages, but from my viewpoint 1) I was here to contribute 2) I never did or say anything bad or strange 3) I found your dialogue lacking in terms to reach an understanding, and a cooperative outcome - I found a tone in it that I really don't understand the reason for. I've also contributed to Wikimedia projects for well over a decade without big issues or ever being blocked. I did agree on your point in my (next to) last message, then I went for my break, and I can't see what's neccessarely strange with that - in other words, I didn't see your reply before dinner, and I only tried contributing with a text, which is after all the point of this project, isn't it?
The initial topic of our disagreement was whether the book was in English at all or not, and to what extent. From my viewpoint, that's what we were straightening out, we partially disagreed, and as editors we are normally equals, so I disagree with both the premise and the content of "was being repeadetly told".
I do think giving feedback on this is important for this project.
Again, thank you for that helpful action! Flinga (talk) 22:17, 27 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Assuming that EncycloPetey got the impression early on that my intention was to cause trouble here, which I only realised long after this discussion, I have apologized for any harm potentially caused by my actions, and for essentially making a too big thing out of it. That apology is also directed to anyone else here who might possibly have been affected. Flinga (talk) 03:03, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

No pages numbers displayed ...[edit]

I cannot figure out why the page numbers are not displaying on the later parts of the transclusion here: Provincial_Geographies_of_India/Volume_4, given that I've implemented the workarounds about removing certain characters

There doesn't seem to be a consistency as to where the page numbering script fails, other than it does not seem to like certain non alphanumeric characters in a defined string to be displayed as a page number.

It would be appreciated if those with technical ability, (rather than continuing to suggest work-arounds) documented what page number formats (and charcters) are accepted by the page numbering script because I am getting tired of tracking down technical minutiae, which don't seem to behave consistently. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:07, 30 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ShakespeareFan00: The PageNumbers script rather uncritically stuffs the page number value in a HTML ID attribute, so the safe rules (HTML 4 rules) for what you can put in there is something like: A–Z, a–z, 0–9, hyphen (-), underscore (_), colon (:), and period (.). And the first character must be A–Z or a–z.
As of HTML 5 the rules for ID attributes are much laxer (no space characters, must be at least one character, must be unique in the page), but once you exceed the above list you start running into what are special characters in JavaScript, HTML, URLs, and MediaWiki. Some will work, but more by happy accident than design.
This state of affairs is partly due to MediaWiki:PageNumbers.js being effectively a personal half-experimental project of GOIII's (as far as I've been able to tell, but I wasn't around at the time) that was never fully polished or architected, and partially due to the limitations of what such a script can do without being made a part of MediaWiki proper. For example, some of the limitation stems from needing to use the page numbers as identifiers, and it would be… not trivial… for such a script to generate non-pagenumber derived unique identifiers that retain a connection with a page number that is otherwise used only for display. --Xover (talk) 07:03, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you.. That explains the failure of "("")" bracketed numbers, "'" would conflict with string terminators used in CSS. I am still not sure as to why a terminating period, caused issues though, but will remove those anyway as it's helps solve the problem. Are you willing to look into this in more depth, so there is a definitive list of characters that shouldn't be present, so that the relevant help documentation can be updated?ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
So far I've got that "(" ")" "." and "'" should not appear in pagelist entries ? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well, I'll certainly be happy to help however I can, but there's no actual code that can be parsed to discover the set. The only real way to find the answer is to try various characters and seeing what fails. And we have several different layers of technology interacting here (WikiMarkup and the MediaWiki parser, the ProofreadPage extension, HTML, and JavaScript. It's not impossible CSS is also involved due to selectors for the relevant identifiers. --Xover (talk) 11:10, 31 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How to update the display of a DJVU file?[edit]

@ShakespeareFan00: discovered that File:Portland, Oregon, its History and Builders volume 1.djvu lacks an image of page 449. I found an alternate scan of the book, extracted the page, inserted it into the DJVU file, removed a neighboring blank page to preserve pagination, and re-uploaded it. But the page previews are not updating. This is true both on Commons and here on Wikisource (but Commons has updated one of the pages, but not the other; Wikisource has updated neither.) I tried refreshing and purging all involved pages, with no effect. It's been more than 24 hours, so I'm not confident it will "fix itself." Does anybody know what's happening, or what to do about it?


Both display properly on my local copy. -Pete (talk) 23:51, 26 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This took care of itself, a few days after upload. Must have been a cacheing issue. -Pete (talk) 20:42, 29 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm, I think I must have looked at the wrong pages before. I have checked several times since posting the above comment (now struck), and the problem persists. -Pete (talk) 20:31, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I noticed, however, that on Commons when I try to purge the file page, I get an error message that says "purge failed" (without further explanation). I don't know why that purge fails, but perhaps it's related to this problem. -Pete (talk) 20:39, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey: would you mind taking a look at this one? I saw your comment on WS:Scriptorium on (what I thought was) a similar case; but this one is a DJVU, not a PDF. How can I get the Wikisource interface to display the page images properly? It still (now a couple weeks later) seems to be displaying pages from the previous, deleted file. -Pete (talk) 20:38, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
My best guess is that a cache purge is needed at Commons to made the change show through. I've tried several things at the Wikisource end, including an edit to the Index page, and several forms of purges and cache clearing. Looking at the page itself from the file while at Commons shows the correct image, and using the OCR generates the correct text; it is only the display through the Proofread Page extension that seems to be at fault. So, unless there is a subtle error in the structure of the DjVu file itself, I suspect it will take a purge at Commons or time for the correction to trickle to Wikisource, or else there is a (new?) problem in the Proofread Page extension. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:48, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I've added a phabricator ticket (see top of this section). I have a screenshot in phabricator of the failed purge, something I haven't seen before -- so I agree, that seems like the most likely cause. -Pete (talk) 21:54, 7 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Criminal Law of the People's Republic of China[edit]

I have imported Criminal Law of the People's Republic of China from the website of the Chinese National People's Congress. However, I am not sure whether the text fulfills the requirement of English Wikisource. Would any more experienced users proofread the text, as I am not familiar with the formata of English Wikisource, thank you.廣九直通車 (talk) 07:34, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tools for building transclusion pages?[edit]

I'm going through the painstaking process of creating a page for each of the many short chapters of The Souvenir of Western Women. It occurs to me that maybe there are tools or scripts that assist in this stuff -- any suggestions out there? -Pete (talk) 21:15, 2 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not to my knowledge. I keep three tabs open: the work's table of contents, the page being transcluded, the page being created. Paste the contents of previous chapter page into new chapter page. Update next/section/previous based on TOC in first tab; update pages being transcluded based on info from second tab; copy whole thing to clipboard, save, click the red link to next chapter and paste content, repeat. It's the most efficient process I've got. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 02:13, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Or you can create a text file with all the needed information for each chapter (e.g.title, prev, next, start, end, section, etc) and we can set up a script to generate pages. If the format of the file is standardized, it could become a library script to be used e.g. for Bot requests.— Mpaa (talk) 09:50, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That is a great idea—I am about to add another volume of a magazine with several hundred articles, and I would like to be able to submit a text file for you to run through a script (I don't know how to use scripts myself). The data that would be useful for magazine articles are: title, section, contributor, previous, next, index, from, to, fromsection, tosection, defaultsort, category. Title and index are the same for every article. One category would be sufficient. Levana Taylor (talk) 18:56, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Beleg Tâl, that's more or less the process I've been using. But I agree, an something like Mpaa describes would be ideal, especially for works like this with many chapters. I'd be happy to try creating a text file for the remaining portion of this work, if you want to give it a try. I should be able to do that tomorrow. Thanks! -Pete (talk) 22:19, 3 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK @Mpaa: I have created a text file here: User:Peteforsyth/Souvenir I don't know the best format for you, but I think all the information you need is in there. Please let me know if you need me to make changes. A few comments:

  • I started where the bulk of the redlinks begin. There are, however, already some blue links interspersed among the remaining redlinks. If a page already exists, maybe the script could just ignore that line in the text document and move on to the next. (Ideal would be to check, and add in fields for "previous" and "next" if they are missing. But that's probably hard to code, and not so hard to fix manually.)
  • I have no idea what the most convenient delimiter is, so I put three percent symbols between the chapter title and the page number. I figure it should be easy to search-and-replace if there's a more suitable symbol.
  • The page numbers are offset by eight from the DJVU file. (E.g., page 200 in the original book is the 208th page in the DJVU file.)
  • I removed author names, since there is much inconsistency in how they are presented. I don't mind going through and adding "contributor=" items to the headers after the pages are created.
  • There will be a number of cases in which one page contains parts of two chapters. I have no problem fixing those manually.
  • I would suggest including "year=1905" in each page.

Please let me know if this is sufficient, or if you need me to do anything else. Feel free to edit the page in my user space, if that's the easiest way to communicate what format works best for you. -Pete (talk) 23:27, 4 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Mpaa: I realized it's better to include the known contributors so I updated the text file. It now includes the name of the contributor at the end of the line, in the cases where it is known. Please let me know if you have questions. -Pete (talk) 19:46, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I copied a sample of how it should be to your page. Better tab separated. Order of columns is irrelevant, keep for now the header row as is. Pages in 'djvu' values are better (both from/to). I tried to extrapolate the end page but it is wrong, please review it, there are also sections to be added (see the few pages I have created as MpaaBot, there are errors).
This is just a small script, long way to make it up to a standard bot ... but it will do for this work.— Mpaa (talk) 21:25, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
To add sections, add two columns (fromsection/tosection) with corresponding names of sections as applicable.— Mpaa (talk) 22:03, 5 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you @Mpaa: that all makes sense. I've now updated the text doc, it's accurate with both page numbers and section numbers. -Pete (talk) 23:47, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
p.s. In some cases the section markers do not yet exist in the pages, but I'll be going through to make sure they are included. -Pete (talk) 23:49, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That all worked great. Thanks @Mpaa:! And thank you @Victuallers: for all your proofreading work too! I just added it to the "new texts" page and will tweet it out too :) -Pete (talk) 22:28, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Auxiliary TOC for Once a Week[edit]

I have several questions, but will start with the basics. I would like to use the template {{Auxiliary Table of Contents}} to add a table of contents to volumes of Once a Week magazine, because the volumes don't have a TOC, only a subject index (quite a different thing: for instance, in Volume II the article titled "The European Difficulty" is in the index as "Pope Pius IX"). I have here created part of a contents page for Volume III to show what it might look like, with the auxiliary table of contents above the transcluded index. Before I go on with more of this I would like your thoughts on whether this is a reasonable thing to do.

Some notes on the stylistic choices I made for the TOC: It is divided into numbers not just for usefulness and readability, but also because the book is so divided: In small print at the bottom of the first page of every number is "Vol. XNo. Y," and the date is at the top of every page. As for how the entries are formatted, Title. By Author . . . . . Illustrated by Illustrator., that is directly taken from how the magazine displayed their contents in their advertisements. (I can't simply copy over the advertisment, though, because that isn't quite a TOC either.)

Thoughts? Levana Taylor (talk) 20:32, 6 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I will take the lack of comments to mean that no one has an objection to my implementing this table of contents, and will move on to the actual help question I wanted to ask.
How should I format the lines in the TOC, given that {{Dotted TOC line}} doesn't work inside of {{Auxiliary Table of Contents}}? (And neither do other potentially useful templates like {{block right}} and {{hi}}.) Is there some other combination of templates I could be using? Ideally, the "Illustrated by" column should be a separate column at the right, left-aligned within itself, and with a caption at the top; it's coincidental that the "comment" field of Auxiliary Table of Contents provides a caption for it. And of course the main column should have a line of dots of the correct length and should wrap with a hanging indent. I could do all that by building a table by hand but that would be a bad idea because it would make the page much too hard to edit. The point of templates is to keep complicated stuff under the hood. Levana Taylor (talk) 17:00, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think Dotted TOC line works inside Auxiliary TOC, see e. g. Songs of the Slav. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:09, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually Songs of the Slav demonstrates that Dotted TOC line breaks Auxilary TOC: notice that the box is only around the first item in the contents, and the content item title creates a white space inside the box Levana Taylor (talk) 18:35, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: Actually, the auxilliary TOC contains only the first item on purpose, the rest is the real table of contents. But you are right about the white space, although this issue is hardly visible (at least on my monitor) and I would not notice, hadn't you told me. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:21, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I see what you were doing adding the preface there. This is what it looks like with more than one line: not too good! there are two problems to fix. The background color of Aux TOC needs to be set to white to match the bgcolor of the lines, and it doesn't have that option (nor do the lines have the option of changing the color to green). Also, I don't know why the left margin of the Dotted lines is different from the undotted ones. (BTW, feel free to edit that TOC experiments page if you have better ideas!) Levana Taylor (talk) 19:57, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Using the chapter-width parameter may help with adjusting the left margin. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 20:55, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that's much better! Thank you very much!
I have posted on the main Scriptorium to see if any programmers want to fix the background color thing. --Levana Taylor (talk) 21:19, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As for the chapter-width, it seems that the inconsitency is caused by different default values of both templates: it is 2.5em in TOC line and 3.5em in Dotted TOC line. I do not know whether it is a mistake or whether it is set differently on purpose. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:33, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Index:The Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage of the British Empire Part 1.djvu[edit]

I'm seeing an unusual problem with this , namely that in some of the scans, what should be an n is transposed for a u, and vice versa in the images generated from the DJVU file. Whilst I can in context find many of these, I would like an explanation as to why this is occurring, as it's not exactly convenient to have to proofread against 2 sets of scans ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:31, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give a specific example? From time to time I have noticed scans where what should clearly be an "n" looks like a "u" (and vice versa). For some of these works, I have obtained a hard copy of the same edition, and found that the original does not have this issue. My guess is that the dual process of scanning and compression loses some of the visual distinction in 19th century fonts between the two letters. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:35, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Page:The Peerage, Baronetage and Knightage of the British Empire Part 1.djvu/77 being a page with a specfic example. The scans on IA is clean, whereas the DJVU on Wikisoruce have the n u switch. This file was recently re-encoded at a higher resoloution, which I would have reasonably expected to resolve this. If a DJVU version can't provide clean scans, it's time to use the PDF, or some other lossless format that doesn't create these issues ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:48, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is likely a reflection of the tiny font size in which the page was printed. I notice the same sort of issues with footnotes and other tiny print. --EncycloPetey (talk) 21:55, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The original uploader upped the encoding resolution, just how high does it have to be for something like this? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:13, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ad as I said, if DJVU can't provide RELIABLE scan images, maybe it's time to use a more reliable format... PDF isn't ideal because of other issues, and there is no current support for using a TAR/TGZ/ZIP archive of JP2 scans in an easily index way at present, ( and of course using direct scans mean no text layer currently) (sigh :( )ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:16, 8 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
DjVu has a feature where the pages can be lossly compressed, which means that images of letters are replaced with images of other letters that are close enough. This can cause this type of problem if that feature is turned on.--Prosfilaes (talk) 15:14, 9 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

DropInital and MarginNote are incompatible..[edit]

See the third paragraph here - Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/84.

So far no-one has come up with a 'satisfactory' solution to this, that works consistently. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 00:26, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Also - User:ShakespeareFan00/Sandbox/Firstletter using a custom defined style works correctly, when implemented in the page listed, fails entirely. It would be nice if for once Mediawiki behaved CONSISTENTLY, when the SAME markup is used in two different instances.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 02:35, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They both use floated blocks, and as far as I can tell they behave entirely consistently with the standard behaviour of floated blocks, which is that the first one goes up against the margin, and any subsequent ones next to it on the inside. You'd have to use fancy positioning in the template to move it from there to the other side of any intervening floated content. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 02:44, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That answers the first concern, what it doesn't answer is why IDENTICAL markup is rendering in one instance and NOT in another, Perhaps someone else can take a look at the respective markup, and get Mediawiki to give CONSISTENT renderings , rather than forcing me to play hunt the obscurity every single time I actually want to improve something.... (rage noise) ShakespeareFan00 (talk)
It is also well-known that not everything will display well in both the Page: namespace with its narrow pagewidth and the mainspace with a much wider pagewidth. Don't look for solutions for nice display in the Page: namespace if the transcluded text is behaving nicely in the mainspace. The transclusion is the only thing that counts in the end. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 03:12, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is another glitch with the margin-note saying "not-in the original" in that it's currently not positioning correctly. It should be right over on the left, not indented as currently. As I said , it would be nice if someone actually overhualed these templates "properly" so that they will play nicely together, instead of creating frustration for contributors. (sigh) 03:27, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Well lets see User:ShakespeareFan00/Ruffhead - and the drop cap works, but the note-positioning behaviour doesn't. I'm fed up having to play "guess the stable combination" based on templates, namespace, and phase of the moon, &c. Consistency and repeatability are not unreasonable things to expect from a platform like Wikisource... (sigh) 03:36, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large, 1763.djvu/84 and User:ShakespeareFan00/Ruffhead look the same to me —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:47, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They should look identical, barring the page header lines, I am puzzled as to why the firstletter behaviour isn't being applied consistently. Maybe a it's a browser issue, which one are you using? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:41, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They both look the same to me in both Firefox and Chrome on Windows 10, with or without your .sanity rules in my common.css page. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:13, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It also helps if there's a strightforward way to put experimental CSS so everyone can use it (as opposed to a personal common.css) ... TemplateStyles being one possibility, but at present it's not possible to use Userspace CSS files in a templatestyles src field, for various reasonsShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:43, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've updated it with a working solution: wrap all of the margin notes into a single {{float left}}. This means that when the browser places the dropinitial beside the previous floated block, it places it next to the column of notes as a whole, rather than beside the final floated note in the series. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:16, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks that approach may be what I use to update other pages. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:47, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]



I had some experimental CSS I wanted to test and demonstrate more widely.. Is there a way of using TemplateStyles to link experimental CSS from a User space page into a Page: Wikipedia: or Main namespace page? Or are there limitations on what can appear and where? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:45, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If this message is red, then the answer is yes. You might need an admin to change the content model of the linked CSS file from "CSS" to "Sanitized CSS". I'm not sure if this requires elevated permissions.Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:26, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
BTW be prudent with this. If you have an experimental CSS rule you want to try out, you should put it in your sandbox and link people to it. If it applies to a particular work, you can create a work-specific template and clearly identify it as an attempt to improve that specific work - noting this both on the template documentation, and within the Index talk page. If you start putting user CSS where people don't expect it, and you forget to remove it afterwards, other editors will not take that kindly. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:33, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Okay so what I want to do is thus entirely impossible, because the CSS selector I want to use can;t be used inline... Thanks ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:38, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ShakespeareFan00: That doesn't sound like it would matter; what specifically are you trying to do? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:58, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Use a selector to implement ::firstletter behaviour, with a view towards the CSS4? style dropcaps styling, (which would make the currrent dropinital approach less of an issue once browsers support the functionality concerned.) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:10, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ShakespeareFan00: Like this?Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:25, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes That was it EXACTLY. Now if that could be tested with some exactign test cases... there might be a replacement for the current {{di}} template. The next problem would be how to handle things like drop initals where a normal sized quote preceeds... hmmm... And thanks for the hint ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:29, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ShakespeareFan00: FYI, implementing drop initials using ::firstletter should result in exactly the same problems that {{di}} has currently, because you still need to float the element in order to have the second line appear beside it rather than below. Given that a solution to this particular issue has been found, I'd suggest saving yourself the headache until the dropinitial feature in CSS is fully implemented across browsers. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:31, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sidenotes (ongoing)[edit],_Lighting,_etc._Act_1763

This has overlapping sidenotes, which I made an attempt to resolve by adding an optional 'clear:' in the relevant templates {{Outside}} and {{Outside2}} to try and get the sidenotes to auto wrap (the way {{MarginNote}}'s do.,

The relevant diffs being:

and Where is the coding mistake, because the fix doesn't seem to being implemented? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:39, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The Statutes at Large (Ruffhead)/Volume 9/Doncaster: Small_Debts, Lighting, etc. Act 1763

This has overlapping sidenotes, which I made an attempt to resolve by adding an optional 'clear:' in the relevant templates {{Outside}} and {{Outside2}} to try and get the sidenotes to auto wrap (the way {{MarginNote}}'s do.,

The relevant diffs being:


Where is the coding mistake, because the fix doesn't seem to being implemented?

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:39, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Sorry, had trouble parsing your comment. I might be able to help, give me a bit and I'll look into it. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:37, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Part of the issue seems to be that {{Outside R}} isn't passing on a parameter "clearfix" when it should be... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:45, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
sounds of insane laughter... It's ALWAYS a misplaced bracket., anyway I've solved the overlapping sidenotes issue that's been an annoyance for over a decade, with one simple clear: in the Sidenotes code. :) (more insane laughter...) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:51, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wow, nicely done! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:56, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Now to figure out why using clear makes it harder to use DropInitial's ;) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:59, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Dropinitials are just ordinary floats, so they will be cleared like any other floats. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:26, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
OK, it's time to think laterally. Why does it have to be sidenotes? Just because in print the decision was made to print the references as sidenotes, why do we have to when presenting the text? After all, putting them there makes the work less accessible to some of our readers. Some possibilities (with thanks to the Braille community):
  1. Regular footnotes collected at the end of the piece of legislation;
  2. Regular footnotes collected at the end of the print-page representation (least acceptable here);
  3. Regular footnotes collected at the end of each section/subsection/subsubsection/paragraph—whichever makes the most sense for the piece of legislation; or
  4. Inline notes marked off in some distinguishable way (e.g. [], {}).
An explanation of the variation from print should be placed in the Notes field of the header in the Mainspace: transclusion.
My own preference would be No. 3. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:01, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I do prefer sidenotes, they look much better and work exactly the way the original author intended. Sidenotes are used for a different purpose than footnotes–they should help the reader find the place in the text where a particular topic is dealt with (while footnotes provide extra information and thus can be placed at the end). What is more, footnotes always disturb the readers forcing them to leave the text and go downwards and then return back, which is OK from time to time, but it is not very comfortable at the beginning of every paragraph. (It is possible that some browsers may have problems with sidenotes, but it is a problem of the particular browser, not ours. It is the browser that needs to be improved. I believe that programmers of browsers should serve the needs of internet users, not vice versa, i.e. internet users adapting their behaviour to make the situation easier for browser programmers). --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:33, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If the marginal notes were topic-based, then I would not be recommending changing them to footnotes. However, in this particular situation the notes are not topics, but are providing extra information. The print conventions of the period were to use marginal notes rather than footnotes. In this case there are a lot of notes that need to be attached to each paragraph. As a result when done as sidenotes there are frequent overlaps in the wider mainspace: windows. If we want to continue to allow our pages to be viewed at multiple widths on multiple devices, we need a way to manage the overlaps. Thus my series of suggestions to avoid sidenotes for the references. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 20:06, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beeswaxcandle: As far as I see there is e. g. a part mentioning appointed commissioners, next to which there is a sidenote saying "Commissioners appointed". There is a part saying "...the first Meeting of the said Commissioners shall be held on..." which is accompanied by a side note "First meeting". And so on... They are typical sidenotes attracting the reader to the topic, not notes adding extra information. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:25, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well my preference is to keep the "subect-titles" as sidenotes (per more recent legislation, if not modern ones ), I'm open minded in respect of what are in effect cross referencing
Compare Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu/82 vs the MarginNote based approach on Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large,_1763.djvu/84 or {{cl-act-p}} elsewhere (which is mostly implemented to have anchoring.) 20:12, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
In respect of a complex page like - [[4]] It works, but it's vomit inducingly ugly...

and ends up with far too much white space in the run of text... Maybe some kinds of better hybrid approach is needed... ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:21, 11 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I found a wrong cite - I just to make one edit[edit]

The wrong page in De Vinne, Invention of Printing (1876).djvu/554

the citation is right,

Johnson J. Typographia, or the Printers' Instructor, including an Account of the Origin of Printing. 24mo. 2 vols. London, 1824.

but the wikilink is wrong. There doesn't seem to have a page for John Johnson (1777-1848) (see [5]) - the page is for John Johnson Jr. Editor of the Johns Hopkins University Studies in Historical and Political Science

That hasn't a Wikipedia either.

can someone make it right - it's too hard for me.

Talk about confusing (talk) 10:37, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Talk about confusing: fixed. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:56, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Okay why does parameterising line-height completely stop something working?[edit]

I've attempted MANY times this morning, to get the sidenote to have closer behaviour in the two respective versions... Something was more seriously clearly broken in the relevant template because parameterising ONE component should not have caused the template to cease rendering utterly.

As I've REPEATEDLY asked in the past, WHERE was the coding error, please? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:13, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It also doesnt't help that someone else seems to have assumed line-height is supported for SPAN ed content, MDN and W3Schools seem to say otherwise, meaning that the parameter concerned is effectively processed but may not have a visual effect. (sigh) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:32, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Giving an example:-

{{sidenotes begin|35|11}}
{{right sidenote|A.D 686<br />Cures an earl's wife|height=125}}
{{lorem ipsum|2}}
{{right sidenote|A.D 686<br />Cures an earl's wife|height=140}}
{{lorem ipsum|2}}
{{sidenotes end}}

A.D 686
Cures an earl's wife
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

Curabitur pretium tincidunt lacus. Nulla gravida orci a odio. Nullam varius, turpis et commodo pharetra, est eros bibendum elit, nec luctus magna felis sollicitudin mauris. Integer in mauris eu nibh euismod gravida. Duis ac tellus et risus vulputate vehicula. Donec lobortis risus a elit. Etiam tempor. Ut ullamcorper, ligula eu tempor congue, eros est euismod turpis, id tincidunt sapien risus a quam. Maecenas fermentum consequat mi. Donec fermentum. Pellentesque malesuada nulla a mi. Duis sapien sem, aliquet nec, commodo eget, consequat quis, neque. Aliquam faucibus, elit ut dictum aliquet, felis nisl adipiscing sapien, sed malesuada diam lacus eget erat. Cras mollis scelerisque nunc. Nullam arcu. Aliquam consequat. Curabitur augue lorem, dapibus quis, laoreet et, pretium ac, nisi. Aenean magna nisl, mollis quis, molestie eu, feugiat in, orci. In hac habitasse platea dictumst.

A.D 686
Cures an earl's wife
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

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Here the sidenotes should have different line spacings, but with the current templates there is no appreciable visual difference. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:39, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ShakespeareFan00: Deep breaths :) Yes, it appears to be primarily that line-height is a block-element parameter being used on an inline element. Should you maybe use display:inline-block;? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS since sidenotes look different depending on Layout, perhaps some of these changes should be done in Layout.css rather than in the template. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
And whilst the layout options seem to function outside Mainspace. (the option for previewing them doesn't appear), which is not an acceptable long term approach... I'll revert back my changes for now, as this clearly isn't going to work unless someone does some much more fundamental rethinking (Sigh) :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:54, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Something like ? Template:Right sidenote/sandbox.css , if you were willing to go test, clearfix is the solution I mentioned in a previous disscussion, Not sure where it should be implemented. Willing to test further? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:33, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And on testing that didn't behave.. This is now beyond frustrating, and I'm still no closer to figuring out WHY it's not working. Page:The Heimskringla; or, Chronicle of the Kings of Norway Vol 1.djvu/101 2 sidenotes, but doing clear:right doesn't seem to have the desired effect at all. Perhaps someone else here can calmly explain why it's so hard to figure out floats and clears properly? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:14, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ShakespeareFan00: the sidenoteRight class is already defined in the sitewide CSS, and is positioned absolutely - so any dynamic positioning will have no effect. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 22:23, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm.. So How do we do the clearfix like behaviour, if the flr stuff is not going to have any effect. :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:25, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Essentialy how in CSS do we tweak the positioning so they don't overlap in situations like ? Page:The Heimskringla; or, Chronicle of the Kings of Norway Vol 1.djvu/103?}ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:27, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It might not actually be possible... If the sidenote is positioned absolutely, it can't be dynamically affected by the position of other sidenotes. However, if the sidenote is positioned relatively, it can only be placed within its parent, and not in its parent's margin... I think this is a place where CSS may have failed us. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 22:29, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
In the case of sidenotes specifically, it could be possible by forcing a fixed-width margin. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 22:31, 13 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Can you come up with an alternate approach then, like converting them to footnotes instead? 22:33, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
Converting to footnotes is a viable solution. Honestly I would just use sidenotes and let them overlap, and then we can resurrect this discussion when future versions of CSS are released that might give us more options. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:06, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Best placement for an editorial note[edit]

What's the best place to put the editorial note that ran at the bottom of the first page of this magazine article? I'd imagine others have found an elegant way to deal with this sort of thing... McClure's Magazine/Volume 10/A French Critic's Impressions of America -Pete (talk) 06:43, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I personally would put it at the bottom of the transcluded page, either as a footnote or using LST. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 14:30, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. I did the former, and I'm happy with that. I read the LST page, but I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at with that one. I'm curious, if you're inclined to elaborate. -Pete (talk) 15:16, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page:Compendium of US Copyright Office Practices, II (1984).pdf/445..[edit]

And others... Can someone else possibly with AWB, assisst in the repair of various tables over multiple pages? I am cleaning up LOT's of pages, but I am about to burn out doing it manually. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 23:29, 15 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I can do a quick AWB run, if you tell me precisely what changes need to be made —Beleg Tâl (talk) 00:53, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Well I did eventually do this one manually, so some validation would be appreciated... but the basic repair needed elswehere is...
|<row data>

needs converting to

|<row data>


|<row data>


|<row data>

And of course any trailing


needs converting to


All tables need the row marker at the start of the row, fixing this resolves a large number of 'fostered' content warnings. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 01:07, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The other cause of a fostered content warning appears to be:


{| <table style>



As there is no row defined at the point at which the {{nop}} occurs there is content outside the table structure which causes the 'fostered' content warning. Using

<!-- -->

instead resolves the error in some situations, but the longer term fix would be for the parser ( and wiki-markup) to explicitly recognise it is inside a table and handle the SOL context for the |- correctly, or by providing an unambiguous continuation syntax. There is a unresolved Phabricator ticket concerning this. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:33, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please fix redirect for Volume III of OAW[edit]

I moved Once a Week (magazine)/Series 1/Volume 3 to Once a Week (magazine)/Series 1/Volume III and then decided I should instead have made "Volume III" redirect to "Volume 3" because all existing links are to the latter. Could you please do the deletion and recreation needed to reverse the direction of the redirect? Thanks. Levana Taylor (talk) 00:31, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes check.svg DoneBeleg Tâl (talk) 00:52, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page:A biographical dictionary of eminent Scotsmen, vol 1.djvu/337[edit]


Either I can waste time running around playing hunt the random whitespace rule, or someone can actually care, and get the parser fixed so it has ONE CONSISTENT and REPEATABLE behaviour for how to handle continued tables. This has been unresolved for some time, which doesn't inspire confidence in the platform used for Wikisource. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:45, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

? - there is a consistent and repeatable solution, which you are very familiar with - use {{nop}} to separate table syntax from other content so that they don't collapse into each other —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:55, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That was what WAS being used on that page... It was STILL generating a "fostered content" warning, apparently due to the <section /> tag, and also possibly due to the reasons I mentioned in the thread above. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:35, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Another - Page:January 1916 QST.djvu/11 with the section tag being treated as fostered content (which it is not). As I said, I'm getting frustrated in having to play "guess the handling rule". ONE rule please. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:43, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What I am saying is that I shouldn't have to remember where {{nop}} (or {{nopt}} or <!-- --> works and where it doesn't. There should be ONE syntax that works in all instances and interactions, without me as a contributor having to guess/test on every single instance. It doesen't help that Wikisource is STILL apparently trying to do multipage tables with a syntax designed for single continuous pages. This isn't the first time I've mentioned this, and the sooner certain people overcome their resistance to actually fixing the real problem and provide a working syntax that doesn't depend on template or comment 'work-arounds' the better. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:22, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've proposed something on phabricator - , we can solve this once and for all.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:22, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know what a "fostered content warning" is, but I have yet to see a scenario where {{nop}} failed to work as expected. As far as I know {{nop}} is the one syntax that works in all instances--that's kind of the point of it —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:04, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
What fosteref content is , where there is content appearing that doesn't fit with what media wiki thinks the expected table structure is.
Run of text
|Start of row.

Would generate a warning because after the {| the parser is expecting to see either a | or |-. {{nop}} generates a <p></p> which can only appear within a <td> or <th> tag. Mediawiki in an attempt to clean up the output moves the content to the parent container (I.E Outside the table.). Using a <!-- --> instead to effect the line break does not insert content that shouldn't be there as whitespace between a <table> and a <tr> is acceptable..

In some instance the {{nop}} works because it's appended to the end of the row generated in the header portion...

|Data 1|| Data 2

Is what's the parser effectively thinks it's seeing.

Where the header only contains an opening {|

What's actually seen is seemingly

|Data 1||Data 2

which breaks the intended stucture as the parser isn't expecting to see a <p></p> immediately after a <table>.

Because figuring these interactions out is tiresome, the proposal was a cleaner method of indicating the ditching of the initial <table>...<tbody> header code, that puts the table generation ENTIRELY within the body text of a page, which is one less set of handling rules to deal with and should be the repeatable and consistent approach desired. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:50, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In respect of the proposal, what the parser would see is something like
<!-- first page -->
{| nofooter=true 
! Header 1 !! Header 2
|Data 1|| Data 2
<!-- next page -->
{| noheader=true 
|-ribbon=true <!-- I.E. Supress display of next row when transcluded. -->
! Header 1 !! Header 2
|Data 1|| Data 2

respectively and this would generate from page

<th>Header 1</th>
<th>Header 2
<td>Data 1</td>
<td>Data 2


<th>Header 1</th>
<th>Header 2
<td>Data 1</td>
<td>Data 2

For the two pages in Page namespace


<th>Header 1</th>
<th>Header 2
<td>Data 1</td>
<td>Data 2
<td>Data 1</td>
<td>Data 2

on transclusion, which is all within HTML5 structuring rules with no need for <p></p> or other insertions outside of <tr><th> etc.. and entirely linear.

Fixing this for good at parser level avoids the complications and is easier to debug. Spotting a missing noheader/nofooter in the table syntax is easier, then figuring out the absence of various line-feeds and template combinations.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:01, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Next step would be figuring out how to more precisely define how to handle no-footer/no-header rules work in templates which are transcluded to pages which are transcluded to mainspace., but these could be more tightly and rigidly defined than the current approaches.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:18, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The other consideration, is of course where to put a suitable 'gap' so the page numbering script works correctly (Sigh) :(

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:23, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It would also be NICE if someone documented where precisely the parser expects or inserts whitespace.. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:25, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
As you probably know, headers and footers are simply <noinclude /> tags. You could use this knowledge to your advantage if you liked, for example:
<!-- first page -->
! Header 1 !! Header 2
|Data 1|| Data 2
<!-- next page -->
## LST ##
! Header 1 !! Header 2
|Data 1|| Data 2
Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:39, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You could also, alternatively, simply ignore the "fostered content" warnings. Where do you even see those anyway? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 21:42, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Special:LintErrors/fostered , sometimes I'm also seeing them with "Missing end tag" errors for DIV tags. The Missing end tag errors are also useufl for finding unpaired /s /e templates and unclosed italics. :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:48, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete my account[edit]

Your site is really complicated. Not user friendly

I want to delete my account please. unsigned comment by Christianview (talk) .

@Christianview: it is not possible to delete an account. However, you can go to Wikipedia and request a courtesy vanishing in order to make your contributions harder to find, or to remove your association with your edits. Have a look at w:Wikipedia:Courtesy vanishing for more information. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 23:42, 17 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Federal Register Template + Proclamation 7463[edit]

It seems that {{USFR}} uses outdated links, see for example at Proclamation_7463: {{USFR|66|48199}} turns to 66 FR 48199. For that matter, is Proclamation_7463 referencing the correct FR item? Because wikipedia:List_of_presidential_proclamations_by_George_W._Bush#cite_ref-66 and say it’s 66 FR 48197. --Jaquento (talk) 17:46, 19 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Transclusion difficulty[edit]

I formatted the verse play The secret that can't be kept by copying verbatim the formatting of the Yale 1918 "Macbeth". This works fine except that I would like to add one additional improvement: I would like to confine the entire text column to a width of 32em so that when the screen is wide the right-floated elements are not ridiculously far from the left-aligned elements. In principle, I would do this by placing everything in a block. But I don't understand how to make this work correctly when dealing with multiple transcluded pages. The Yale "Macbeth" uses some tricks I don't understand, involving sections and a dummy header, in order to carry over {{dent}} from page to page. I copied this but don't know how to adapt it to carry over the block also. Levana Taylor (talk) 02:07, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You can use {{block center}}. Look at the documentation of the template for help and you will see how to use with multiple pages. Jpez (talk) 05:42, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That worked! Thanks 06:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Float plus blank line[edit]

When formatting articles such as St. Anne's Lake, Transylvania, I use {{float right}} to append the signature to the end of the article text. This article also has footnotes, so for the sake of readability there should be a blank line between the signature and the rule above the footnotes: The problem is that

{{float right}} {{dhr}} {{rule}}

doesn't always produce the desired result because of the way that the float interacts with the elements below it. If I understand correctly, this problem is what the "clear" parameter is used for; but where should I put the "clear"? Levana Taylor (talk) 22:20, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi I've added noninclude tags to the rule on the proofread page. This will make the rule viewable there but won't transclude it to the main namespace. Then I added a blank line and then a rule plus the reference tag to the main namespace which gave the blank line you were asking for. Using the reference tag you can place footnotes wherever you want in the main namespace, whereas if you don't use it they get automatically placed right under the text. Jpez (talk) 05:44, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Got it, thanks! Levana Taylor (talk) 07:28, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Shakespeare DjVu help[edit]

Can someone take [6], which is a copy of The Merchant of Venice (1923) and generate a DjVu file and upload it to Commons? It seems IA have not generated a proper DjVu file for this work. The file is needed as part of Portal:The Yale Shakespeare, a current project that is actively generating scan-backed editions of Shakespeare's plays.

For consistency, the Commons file should be named File:Merchant of Venice (1923) Yale.djvu --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:46, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Aside: The Merchant of Venice, surely? --Xover (talk) 17:44, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not for the filename, only for the title of the work. There is a difference. --EncycloPetey (talk) 19:57, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Sure, but why have a needless diifference between the filename and the title? The "The" never hurt nobody! :) --Xover (talk) 05:15, 21 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not true. Including "The" in the filename creates lots of extra work for any derivative files that have to be sorted alphabetically. Modern library databases routinely drop "an", "an", and "the" from the front of titles for this reason. Some of the other titles have been shortened as well, such as "King Lear (1917) Yale.djvu" instead of "The Chronicle History of the Life and Death of King Lear and His Three Daughters (1917) Yale.djvu" --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:58, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@EncycloPetey: I gotcha. Check in 10 minutes. —Justin (koavf)TCM 19:41, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:12, 20 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

suppress space between paragraphs[edit]

What Is the best way to suppress the paragraph-space between two pieces of text that are one above the other? (Not using "float" because I want to position them exactly.) The poem tag is one; are there others? --Levana Taylor (talk) 20:00, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can you give an example? It's unclear what you are trying to do, or why "suppression" of the space is needed. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:02, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See the letter in this story. I have the signature positioned by means of <br/> and {{gap}}, but I would rather right-align it; {{right}} would cause a paragraph break between the signature and the line above. Levana Taylor (talk) 20:42, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've used {{float right}}, although for letters in the middle of text, I might use a {{block center}} with fixed width to help set it off from the body text. Short letters like this suffer from the switch to electronic format by virtue of no longer being constrained to a column of fixed width. --EncycloPetey (talk) 20:54, 23 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Gadget to add {{nop}} seemingly non functional..[edit]

Has there been a change in mediawiki recently... This used to generate a msg box and doesn't currently...ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:07, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's failing for me too. I'm not quite sure why, but it is using a jQuery ajax call rather than the API, so I'd like to make this change to the gadget code to fix the issue. Sam Wilson 01:17, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not working for me still. Has this been reported? Zoeannl (talk) 04:55, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've requested a change here: MediaWiki_talk:Gadget-NopInserter.js#Update_wikitext-getting_code (I'm not an interface editor so can't edit the gadget myself). —Sam Wilson 09:42, 3 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hanging indent in poems[edit]

When you have a poem with some extremely long lines, it'd be good to allow for wrapping by specifying a hanging indent. But if you add {{hi}} to the start of the poem, it assumes that successive lines of the poem separated by a single line break are the same paragraph and indents every line after the first one. Solution? Levana Taylor (talk) 19:00, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

So what you want to happen is, rather than:

And there, in middle of the path, a leper did appear;
In a deep slough the leper lay; to help would none come near,
Though earnestly he thence did cry, "For God our Saviour's sake,
From out this fearful jeopardy a Christian brother take."

— you would prefer something along the lines of:

And there, in middle of the path, a leper did appear;

In a deep slough the leper lay; to help would none come near,

Though earnestly he thence did cry, "For God our Saviour's sake,

From out this fearful jeopardy a Christian brother take."

? 19:46, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If you don't want a hanging indent, then don't use hanging indent; use a div.

And there, in middle of the path, a leper did appear;
In a deep slough the leper lay; to help would none come near,
Though earnestly he thence did cry, "For God our Saviour's sake,
From out this fearful jeopardy a Christian brother take."

--EncycloPetey (talk) 21:36, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If I understand it right, what Levana Taylor wants to achieve is something like this:
And there, in middle of the path, a leper did appear;
In a deep slough the leper lay; to help would none come near,
Though earnestly he thence did cry, "For God our Saviour's sake,
From out this fearful jeopardy a Christian brother take."

The solution I have used is not very good and I would be also grateful for being shown some better. The one suggested at the top looks quite complicated to me. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:44, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

If the problem is the wrapping of lines, and getting them to wrap in specific places, then that is not usually replicated in Wikisource. The place where a line wraps is fundamentally a function of the page width in the publication. But at this point we're speculating, because we don't know for certain what is being attempted. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:18, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure if we understand each other. The problem as I see it is in making the high indent inside the <poem></poem> tags. (I wrapped the poem in {{block left}} only to make sure that the high indent is visible.) If you watch a poem with long lines on a large monitor, then there is usually enough space and no need to indent it. But when you watch it on a narrow display, part of the verse often gets to another line and needs to be indented similarly, as it is indented in books with narrow pages. The same problem can also appear in the Page namespace, where the right half of the screen is dedicated to the scan and thus the remaining space is much narrower.
Example: I have such problem when displaying e. g. Page:An_Anthology of Modern Bohemian Poetry.pdf/35 on a small monitor. While in the scan it is indented, in the left window all lines (including the parts of verses which have overflown to another line) are unindented. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 23:11, 24 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The indenting of a single wrapped line within a paragraph is not really supported in HTML/CSS. I strongly recommend that you not try to replicate it, but rather that you allow it to wrap without indenting which is the default wrap behaviour for digital documents. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 00:12, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Beleg Tâl: The problem with poems is that you need to distinguish visually a new verse from a verse which has just overflown to another line because of its length. The indent is not only the solution used in printed books, it is probably the only really suitable solution. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:12, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This is a poem.
It is really rather good.
I wrote it myself.
The only trouble is:
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum. it has a really long line.

Is this the effect you're going for, Levana? --Xover (talk) 07:14, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yep, right on! "Inline block" eh? I take it there isn't a template for that? Levana Taylor (talk) 09:49, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: No existing template, no, but it should be easy enough to create one if there is need and no objections. --Xover (talk) 17:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: Absent immediate objections I've created {{hanging indent inline}} (shortcut {{hin}}) that you can try out. I'll look into whether it can be extended to support multi-page use, but for now it'll only work for lines on a single page. --Xover (talk) 07:47, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Works great. The depth of the indent is right. Levana Taylor (talk) 20:44, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This solution helps with one particular extremely long line, but it seems too complicated to be used regularly throughout the whole long poems or even anthologies of poems. As I have pointed above, even moderately long lines need to be indented when vied on small displays. For example the Page:An Anthology of Modern Bohemian Poetry.pdf/45 is a real mess on my small monitor, but the suggested solution means that every single line has to be indented in this complicated way separately. It would be great if some simple template wrapping the whole poem could solve it. Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:05, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Here is what I approximately see on my small monitor in the narrow window in the Page namespace (to achieve it, I limited the width of the block here):

Hidden springs were playing music and my day its song thereto was chanting,
On the melancholy shores.
The grief of bygone life, from whence I came was wafted to me from the fragrance,
And from the converse of the trees and from the heavy drone of insects o'er the waters,
And there lay whole centuries, betwixt my hands, that blossoms plucked, and them
Betwixt my countenance and a mystic world,
That in a thousand questioning glances in my spirit mutely gazed.

However, a new unindented line usually means a new verse, continuing overflown verse needs to be indented, otherwise the poem is difficult to read. Here is what I should see ideally:

Hidden springs were playing music and my day its song thereto was chanting,
On the melancholy shores.
The grief of bygone life, from whence I came was wafted to me from the fragrance,
And from the converse of the trees and from the heavy drone of insects o'er the waters,
And there lay whole centuries, betwixt my hands, that blossoms plucked, and them
Betwixt my countenance and a mystic world,
That in a thousand questioning glances in my spirit mutely gazed.

Is there a better way to achieve it throughout the whole poem or even series of poems?

BTW: Here I used an example when the width of the space for the poem is limited by the page namespace layout, but sometimes it can be limited in the main namespace too, for example by using the template {{Bilingual}}, which divides the screen into two halves. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:30, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jan.Kamenicek: Your problem is a separate case, and as Beleg Tâl said above, there is really no good way to achieve that. It's possible of course, but it would probably entail something like wrapping the entire poem in a template with each line a separate parameter, and then doing a lot of moderately complicated and fragile styling. It's not something I would recommend pursuing unless the need was great. --Xover (talk) 17:40, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: I do not think it is a separate case, the problem also arises always when you try to read any poem with average-long lines e. g. on a small mobile. It turns into a mess where it is very difficult to find out where a verse ends and a new one begins. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:53, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jan.Kamenicek: I agree that it is a problem. What I'm saying is that it is a different problem, and, due to the limitations of HTML/CSS that Beleg Tâl mentioned above, it cannot use the same same solution. Any solution that I can see to the problem you're talking about would be complicated and fragile. Sorry. --Xover (talk) 18:08, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There is an experimental CSS property text-indent:each-line. When this or an equivalent is published, it will be easy to add this to existing and new poems. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:32, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you use Xover's solution on any line longer than 35 em (30 em to really be on the safe side) it takes care of any ordinary, rather than narrow, screen width. But I agree with Jan Kameníček that this doesn't address the real problem. Let's hope for improved CSS soon! Levana Taylor (talk) 19:49, 25 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Contents page numbers don't match the actual page numbers[edit]

I am proofreading Index:The Coronado expedition, 1540-1542.djvu where the some page numbers of the Contents and all of the Illustrations page numbers are incorrect and have no relation to the actual page number and there is no pattern to the offset.

I am asking what is the company policy on what to display? The printed page number, or the actual page number?— Ineuw talk 13:01, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I suggest using {{SIC}} in combination with {{DJVU page link 2}} linking it to the correct page, see e. g. link to page 136 here. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:54, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I also suggest using {{SIC}}. The displayed number must be the printed number. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:09, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I would just display the number as printed without marking it. On the whole there is no need for links to page numbers as our links are to chapters or sections of a work. If there is a real need to link to a page within a section, then use deep-linking to the appropriate anchor—either the derived one to the page number from the pagelist or a user-created {{anchor}}. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 18:16, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to all for the advice. @Beeswaxcandle: I know that it's not necessary to create links from the contents to the page namespace, and I wasn't going to do it, but the images' djvu numbers are all over the place and without access to the pages they are very difficult to find and verify. — Ineuw talk 18:59, 9 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

images not accompanying text in magazines[edit]

Some magazines may publish an image that does not accompany a story or article, like "The Fair Jacobite" on page 249 of Once a Week vol. VI. What is the Wikisource policy about including these when entering a magazine article-by-article? It does have a caption, at least, or there'd be nothing English-language about it. Levana Taylor (talk) 22:03, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

In the magazine the picture is placed between two articles. So I would put it into a separate subpage between the two subpages with those articles. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:59, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's part of the magazine. We store English language magazines, including their images, captions or no captions. Jan's probably right; just stick it on its own subpage.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:44, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Done. I didn't put the artist's name in the "author" space in the header (thereby treating this picture like other pictures). Levana Taylor (talk) 07:18, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Because this is a rare occurrence, there isn't a set policy for what to do in this case. Putting it on its own subpage is one option. I personally would probably put it at the end of the section preceding it. It's really up to the discretion of the editors who are proofreading the work, whatever makes the most sense within the context of the work as a whole. If there are likely to be more such instances, you should make a note on the index talk page to inform other editors what the convention is if they run into the same question. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
There aren't going to be any more in the issues of OAW I'm working in, but in the later years of the magazine they frequently had a "pull-out" artwork in the issue, and they weren't the only ones to do this. Levana Taylor (talk) 16:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

missing greek[edit]

Hi, I've just finished proofreading Munera pulveris by John Ruskin. Just a heads up to whoever can fix Greek, there's 15 pages with only a few words or short phrases per page of missing greek for it to be fully proofread. And transcluded? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 10:01, 10 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

All Greek flagged as missing is added. I leave transclusion to someone else. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 09:01, 11 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Transclusion is complete. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:08, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wikidata image problem[edit]

On the author page for Abraham Cooper, who has two images in Wikidata, including the image here isn't working properly. But William Wordsworth, who also has two images, is correct. How was this achieved? I don't see anything on Wordsworth's page selecting an image. Levana Taylor (talk) 20:34, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Look at Wordsworth's Wikidata item, in the image section. Look at the little arrows by the top left of each picture. You can see that one image is ranked higher than the other, but this is not the case for Cooper. Try setting the rank of one of his pictures higher.
Good point though, is there nothing we can do in Template:Author to fix this? BethNaught (talk) 21:13, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it should be controlled at this end ... I would want the "Old" image here on Wikisource because it corresponds to the time of writing of that article, but perhaps someone else using Wikidata for a different purpose would have a reason for wanting the "Young" image as their default. Levana Taylor (talk) 21:31, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting Help[edit]

Hi, I need help in formatting this page. I do not know how to make border boxes. --Abhinav619 (talk) 06:55, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Abhinav619: you can use the template {{border}} for border boxes, and {{rule}} for horizontal lines —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:43, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Anthology of Modern Slavonic Literature[edit]

I have uploaded File:Anthology of Modern Slavonic Literature in Prose and Verse by Paul Selver.djvu from, but only then I noticed that there are several pages missing at the end of the book. Hathi has more copies, but they are not available outside the U. S. I tried downloading them with the Hathi Download Helper, but it failed this time for some reason. May I ask somebody from the U. S. to replace the file? Thanks very much! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:38, 16 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think it will make no harm when I start proofreading, and if the pages don't match after the files are replaced later, they can be moved. But it would be great if somebody were able to get a better copy. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:51, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes check.svg Done but the quality isn't the best. Also there is no ocr but you can use the ocr button for that. I'll see if I can create a better copy when I have the time. Jpez (talk) 05:13, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jpez: Thanks very much! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:10, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This page problematic?[edit]

This page was previously deleted on 16 September 2012 by George Orwell III who unfortunately does not seem to be around atm. Is it good to create and proofread? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 09:36, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, was formerly used with a different scan, you can create it again for this new scan. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:28, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks!Zoeannl (talk) 07:26, 18 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Use of a Government Seal (Question)[edit]

I have almost completed 2015 Philadelphia train derailment NTSB report, but I have a concern about this page. It uses an official government seal (this one). While it is listed as in the public domain, use of a government seal is decently regulated.

At the moment, I have written [Seal Omitted]. Should I leave it as that or add in the seal? Thank you, –MJLTalk 05:26, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

But the seal is in the public domain copyright-wise, and we won't have any copyright problems using it. There's no reason to not use an image that's already on Commons.--Prosfilaes (talk) 07:43, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosfilaes: Okay, then; thank you! I'll update the page now. :) –MJLTalk 11:22, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Further to this: regardless of the copyright issues (which there are none), the fact that the government agency themselves placed the seal on this document means that we are not violating any regulations by reproducing the seal when we reproduce the document. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:25, 21 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, that makes a ton of sense in retrospect. I had wanted to be on the safe side with this, but I am glad my to confirm these concerns were unfounded. –MJLTalk 03:53, 23 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Header, main window and footer temporary resizing issue[edit]

I reported this bug and wondered if anyone else has this problem. Would other editors check this and please reply here indicating the OS and the browser used? Thanks in advance.— Ineuw talk 03:45, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It works for me (Firefox and Chrome); do you see the same problem when you are not logged in? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:16, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beleg Tâl: an excellent idea. Thank you. It works when logged out.— P.S: Deleted all the cookies and logged in and the problem remains.— Ineuw talk 20:26, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Issue is resolved. There was a code line in the common.css causing all of the above problems. Thanks again. — Ineuw talk 21:21, 25 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

top caption with FIS?[edit]

On this page {{FIS}} allows me to insert the floor plan the way it should be, except that as far as I can tell it doesn't allow for the caption at the top. Can the top caption be added using FIS, or is there another way to get the floor plan right? Levana Taylor (talk) 03:24, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would use {{img float}} instead. It's got an option for top captions. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:44, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Problem with that: the "capalign" parameter of {{img float}} aligns both the top and bottom captions the same, whereas in this case the text above should be centered and the text below should be left or justified. Can some HTML expert suggest a way to get the correct result "by hand" instead? (replicating what img float does, but with separate alignments for top and bottom captions)? Likewise I want to put the bottom caption in smaller font than the top one, which means specifying different line heights. Levana Taylor (talk) 14:18, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Jesus and Satan meeting[edit]

Some where in Ellen Whites writings, there is a reference when Jesus meet Satan some where in space and Satan wanted to return and Jesus turned and cried, where is that found? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

Have you looked at Author:Ellen Gould White? --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:38, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Wuthering Heights[edit]

Can this page be fixed? The OCR hasn't worked? Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 08:40, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

And this one? Zoeannl (talk) 09:40, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It seems the text layer is either missing or incomplete. I used the WS OCR button to generate text, but this method has several issues, including (1) text rife with scannos, and (b) curly quotes instead of straight.
It may be worth looking for a better scan of the novel instead of proceeding with this particular file.
Also, we already have the 1st (UK) edition, and the 2nd (UK) edition of 1850 is considered the authoritative one. So, is the 1848 US edition worth having? --EncycloPetey (talk) 13:31, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It must be your browser, it's working fine with Firefox (Mac) and Safari (Mac only). The only thing not working with me is the header - which says - wuraaaxnc acres-rs. 5 --kathleen wright5 (talk) 14:03, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Not the browser. I created that text layer using the OCR button (see above). --EncycloPetey (talk) 15:31, 28 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Any consensus? Should this be abandoned? The scan isn't a good one... Zoeannl (talk) 08:23, 29 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would say so. It's a poor scan, with a bad text layer, for an unimportant edition, of a work for which we already have the 1st edition. The 2nd UK edition of 1850 would be valuable, but an early US edition of this novel is more a literary footnote. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:20, 29 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the main namespace page does not link to the Table of Contents entry[edit]

Can someone please look at these pages and tell me why a link is not made? The text in the Table of Contents was copied from the main namespace page title.

Main namespace page:

Table of Contents 1st entry:

Ineuw talk 08:15, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I also ran this search and there are two main pages by the same name Page title search.— Ineuw talk 08:38, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Minuscule "e" in the word "expedition". --Jan Kameníček (talk) 09:08, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I copy-pasted the link from the address bar that uses underscores instead of spaces, and it's linking now. I have no idea why it didn't work before though. Jpez (talk) 12:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Set this problem aside in the past few hours, But I think it's best to delete all main namespace pages cascading from the two roots, and then delete the root pages. — Ineuw talk 21:44, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Too long Contents[edit]

It seems that the Contents on the right side of Index:Anthology of Modern Slavonic Literature in Prose and Verse by Paul Selver.djvu is too long and so the last pages are not transcluded. May I ask for advice? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:26, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The same transclusion problem has appeared at Anthology of Modern Slavonic Literature in Prose and Verse. Besides the last Contents pages the license template has not been transcluded either. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:50, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jan.Kamenicek: Five pages of Contents are not too long. First, it helps if the pages appearing in the Contents list exist. There is an error somewhere in the list of contents. If you look at the end of transclusion on the index page, there appears three page numbers outside of the Contents structure. — Ineuw talk 16:43, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ineuw:I looked at it again, but there are only existing and proofread pages transcluded. When I try to remove some of the the pages transcluded in the beginning and look at the preview, the pages in the end are transcluded without any problem. That is why I guess the problem is with the length of the pages (maybe they contain too many complicated templates...).--Jan Kameníček (talk) 16:52, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jan.Kamenicek: Tried to find the problem by pasting all five pages into this sandbox. Please look at it if anything is missing. Unfortunately, I never used this template. Isn't there supposed to be end of list template?— Ineuw talk 17:17, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ineuw:It is interesting that direct pasting resulted in more content being displayed in your sandbox, but still the last rows do not work. The documentation to the template {{Dotted TOC line}} does not say anything about ending the list. Anyway, when the list is shorter, it works well, see, e. g. this experiment, when it is longer, transclusion of the last pages stops working. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 19:15, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jan.Kamenicek: You're definitely running into the post-expand include size limit (~2MB). II'm guessing the main culprit to be {{Dotted TOC line}}. Every single invocation of this template will spit out ~10k characters (and assuming all of them are stored as 8 bits, one byte, that's 10kB), meaning you can have a maximum of 200 of these before hitting the limit provided there are no other templates or content involved. Your pages break down like this (post-expand include size in bytes):
  • 19: 284,451
  • 20: 420,260
  • 21: 480,968
  • 22: 443,746 ← hitting limit here due to other content and templates.
  • 23: 457,835
  • 24: 122,368
My immediate advice would be to drop {{Dotted TOC line}}. I'm all for reproducing works visually as close as possible, but this particular template looks downright pathological: the sheer amount of markup it spits out for each single line is just astounding. For a long(ish) ToC it's never going to work reliably and will have a measurable impact on readers' systems (download time, performance). Case in point, replacing it with {{TOC line}} on Ineuw's sandbox reduces its post-expand include size from 2,097,152 bytes (capped by the limit) to 252,726 bytes. That is, something on the order of 90% of it comes from {{Dotted TOC line}}. --Xover (talk) 20:47, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I was afraid the problem is something of this kind... It is quite bad if the dots have to be left out. The reason is not only the effort to reproduce the original, but dots really make such long lists much easier to read :-( --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:36, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: A sincere thanks for the explanation. For table of Contents I always use tables. I find it to be very flexible. @Jan.Kamenicek: Sorry for the wrong info.— Ineuw talk 21:40, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: I have replaced the template with {{Dotted TOC page listing}} which seems less massive and it helped. Thanks very much for pointing out the problem. @Ineuw: No problem, I do appreciate you tried to help me! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:05, 30 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Should be no links to deleted redirect...[edit]

Not understanding why this still has entries as I moved/updated all the pages to use the new edition stucture, Explanation? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:36, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Subpages keep links to parent pages. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 22:00, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
[edit conflict] It is possible that these are automatic backlinks generated because of the forward slashes. I.e. the software assumes that a page named Traffic Signs Manual/Chapter 3/2008/1 will be a subpage of Traffic Signs Manual/Chapter 3, and automatically create a link. --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:02, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I also see a number of redlinks in those pages that appear to need correcting, such as links to ".../Chapter 3/Chapter 5" in the text --EncycloPetey (talk) 22:02, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

2 columns[edit]

I'm working on this article and there is a page break where 2 columns begin. It is important that what is in the second column is exactly next to the corresponding part of the first, at Page:The Journal of English and Germanic Philology Volume 18.djvu/510. I don't know how to do this. Radioactive Pixie Dust (talk) 23:03, 14 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It also looks as though the line returns, at least in the left column, are deliberate. It may be easier to match the columns if you replicate these line returns instead of having the text wrap. --EncycloPetey (talk) 00:59, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Drop initials are incompatible with other formatting...[edit]

See: - Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 2.djvu/94. Can someone take a sledgehammer to the relevant templates and MAKE them interact in a SANE manner please, there having been considerable efforts made to make the templates used here not screw up the layout?.

If this isn't fixed I will consider nominating the ENTIRE cl-act-p based family for deletion, on the basis that they just seem to be too incompatible, It is not as if they are widely used. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:43, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

What I don't currently understand is why the same approach on Page:Ruffhead - The Statutes at Large - vol 2.djvu/93 does NOT screw up the layout.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:46, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
These templates rely on floating elements. If you familiarize yourself with float positioning you should be able to figure these out. In this case, {{cl-act-p}} depends on {{margin block}} which by default clears floats to the left. This forces each cl-act-p block to appear below other cl-act-p blocks, or any other floated blocks that precede it. The dropinitial is also floated, and is not cleared, so it will be positioned beside the floated block immediately before it - which is the very last cl-act-p block. You can get around this by putting all the cl-act-p blocks inside a container block. The dropinitial will then be positioned next to the top of the container block (which is now the immediately preceding floated block) instead of next to the top of the very last cl-act-p block. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:01, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Right so dropintial is (currently) incompatible with cl-act-p, Perhaps at some indeterminate future date it will be possible for Wikisource to have templates that do not have obscure interactions issues, until then it seems an overly complicated and otherwise uncessary workaround is needed. What a shame :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:36, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps YOU are able to provide a "compatible" drop-initial template that doesn't rely on a contributor knowing precise CSS details and the minutiae of obscure Mediawiki/HTML/CSS interactions? Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:03, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
lol nope. Templates are just shortcuts for CSS. If you want to format a text with complicated floating blocks of text, it's up to you to understand how complicated floating blocks of text works. Dropinitial needs no further changes to work the vast majority of the time; if you want a version of dropinitial that accounts for the behaviour of whatever cl-act-thingy is, then that's on you. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 17:26, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst that may be so, there wasn't anything in the documentation for {{di}} or {{intial}} that mentions this issue in any detail. Once again I am supposed to KNOW apparently by intution or telepathy, various miniutiiae of CSS/HTML/Mediawiki markup interactions. This is NOT conducive to positive long term contributions. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The documentation for {{di}} explicitly says "This template simply generates a left-floated span (w/style display: block;) containing content with the proper CSS styles applied to it." Floated elements are well documented on MDN, W3Schools, and many many other websites. No intuition or telepathy required. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:57, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The incompatibility of {{di}} with other "floating" templates is NOT howver documented. It seems I'm wasting my time trying to get anywhere with this issue (sigh).ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:12, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See also Page:Test_page#Testing_/s_/e_version_(5d)_with_inline_at_start,_layout_specified_and_a_drop_initial_(I_said_let's_have_some_insanse_test_case!) , The 2 sidenotes/titles should be level with the dropinitial, but that seems to currently be outside the limitations of Mediawiki/CSS/HTML to handle in a SANE and CONSISTENT manner. As I said perhaps SOMONE ELSE can come up with an approach that means that the SAME concerns and arguments do not occur again and again EVERY SIX MONTHS until someone finally gets around to ACTUALLY providing the functionality needed, instead of stalling by saying it's down to me. Either work out a fix the templates or put it in the documentation, that DI and other templates can't be used alongside other 'floated' elements. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:25, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
From some further analysis it seems that what I am trying to do in terms of interactions is NOT currently feasible, due to CSS/HTML limitations. Hopefully when the CSS Text spec, properly supports true drop initials (and browsers do as well) this can be revisted. In the meantime the work around seems to be use a right-hand position for the sidetitles universally. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:39, 17 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, anyone here good with LUA code?[edit]

Page:Ruffhead_-_The_Statutes_at_Large_-_vol_6.djvu/775, a template used on this page was recently updated. I can't figure out WHY the change should have caused something that worked previously to suddenly start generating BAD markup. Can someone else here please provide an explanation, and a repair, so that the templates behave in the SANE and DOCUMENTED way they are supposed to. Thanks. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:49, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything wrong with the linked page. What are you talking about? Which template? What update? Where is the bad markup? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:06, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply] and Template:cl-act-p/1, I put in a TEMPORARY fix by explicitly naming the text param. The template should be able to cope with the text being the unamed first parameter.(i.e an implied 1=}} which in the revision shown didn't work as expected. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:17, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

See also Template:Cl-act-p/testcases ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:54, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Which has been solved for the time being by reverting the changes made recently. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 21:18, 16 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Tom Swift[edit]

I want to download the whole book Tom Swift and His Motor Cycle as pdf . What do I do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

It's my understanding that our PDF export function is still broken. If you need it in PDF format, your best bet may be to download the original book scan from Tâl (talk) 12:42, 18 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page-spanning table[edit]

Page 8 and Page 9 of The Lucknow Album are currently proofread as two separate tables, which is causing misalignment on transclusion. I have tried formatting as page-spanning table, but for some reason it is not working on transclusion. Can someone make a fresh attempt please? Hrishikes (talk) 08:06, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes check.svg Done , looks like it was because page 8 and page 9 were transcluded separately with two separate <pages /> calls. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:38, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks. I had overlooked that aspect. Hrishikes (talk) 16:19, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Book from Google books[edit]

Can somebody from the U.S. check, whether the following book is available in the United States, please? [7]

Thanks very much. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:59, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jan.Kamenicek: -- Is the book same as this: ? I can download this one. Hrishikes (talk) 17:00, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Hrishikes: That is exactly what I hoped to find out: whether the two books are identical or not :-)
However, I would be really glad if you downloaded at least the one from the Hathi Thrust. Thank you! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:12, 22 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Index:President of the Czecho-Slovak Republic, Thomas G. Masaryk.pdf -- Hrishikes (talk) 01:19, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:46, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Help with braces in a table[edit]

I marked this page "validated," but in retrospect my approach is pretty kludgey. Could somebody with a better understanding of how to handle curly braces in tables offer an alternative?


(Note, this is the final page needing validation in this work.) -Pete (talk) 18:46, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alignment affecting line spacing[edit]

I uploaded File:Sassoon, Siegfried - Counter-Attack and Other Poems (1918).djvu from the Internet Archive, and have taken a crack at correcting the OCR'd text and formatting it, but I'm having some issues with text alignment. Spefically, when I use {{centre|lorem ipsum}} or {{right|lorem ipsum}}, it seems to add spacing between the lines, as though they were new paragraphs. For example, on this page: Page:Sassoon,_Siegfried_-_Counter-Attack_and_Other_Poems_(1918).djvu/35, the following lines:

"The war'll be over soon."

"What 'opes ?"

"No bloody fear!"

have more spacing between them than ordinary lines do, despite there being no extra line spacing or paragraph breaks applied in the source.

Also, I'm not quite sure how to achieve the indenting style from the original text, as you can see on the same page, when a line runs over, it's a hanging indent, but the second line is right-aligned, but then slightly indented from the right margin. -- I, Podius (talk) 18:11, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@I, Podius: {{center}}, {{left}}, and {{right}} all wrap their argument in a HTML <div></div>, which is a block element like <p></p>, and so will always have the same vertical whitespace properties. Your best bet is probably to leave the text as such left-aligned but use {{gap}} to indent the relevant lines a suitable amount. I wouldn't worry about that final word on the last line. It doesn't appear to be deliberately wrapped for artistic reasons: it's just wrapped due to the space constraints of physical books. The weird alignment is just to mark such a wrapping point. Just unwrap these lines and you won't need to worry about trying to reproduce it. --Xover (talk) 18:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: Ah, I see! What annoying behaviour. That's good to know. I wasn't sure how closely I should try to match the original formatting, so that's helpful; I'll just add a standard hanging indent for when the text wraps, in that case. Thank you! I, Podius (talk) 03:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See also Wikisource:Scriptorium#blocks of text w/o blank lines between paragraphs. I have tried the method there, of removing automatic paragraph margins by surrounding every paragraph with {{p|m0}}</p>, and it works fine. Two clarifications: 1. {{p|m0}}</p> should be placed inside all <div> templates such as {{right}} 2. You can specify spacing before and after a block of no-paragraph-break text by using {{dhr}} Levana Taylor (talk) 19:48, 25 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: Very helpful, thank you! It took me a while to figure out how to get it working because I didn't realise I needed to add {{p|m0}}</p> to the preceding and following paragraphs, as well. But now it all looks right. Cheers! I, Podius (talk) 03:29, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]


I found the English translation from the 2 vol. books Travels in Brazil, in the years 1817-1820 by Carl Friedrich Philipp von Martius and Johann Baptist von Spix and I'm having a problem: I know that, by the date (1824) is Public Domain worldwide, but I'd like to credit the translator (that only goes by the name "H. E. Lloyd") and I cound't find anything about him. Someone here can help? Thanks, Erick Soares3 (talk) 16:17, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Erick Soares3: It's Hannibal Evans Lloyd (1771–1847). --Xover (talk) 16:49, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: Thanks! Ĩ will soon upload the books! Erick Soares3 (talk) 17:11, 26 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots)[edit]

I would like to proofread the play R.U.R. (Rossum's Universal Robots) by Karel Čapek (the one which introduced the word "robot" for the first time). Unfortunately, the copy at Hathitrust is not very good, e. g. instead of the four sketches of the stage at the end of the book there are only two repeated twice, and some inscriptions in the sketches are illegible. I have found a much better copy at the, but it seems it can be only borrowed for some reason, although it should have been out of copyright already. Is there any way how to get the book from the --Jan Kameníček (talk) 18:40, 28 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've got a scan I made many years ago on my hard drive; I'll see if I can get it up to tonight.--Prosfilaes (talk) 03:08, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That would be absolutely perfect! Thanks a lot! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:52, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That was one of my first scans, and the worse for it. It is available on, but it's not really usable directly. However, Google Books had a better copy of the same edition I scanned, so I uploaded it to File:R U R Rossum s Universal Robots.pdf. It does not have the sketches of the stage, instead having photos of the action, and I'm not sure it's the exact same play text, but there it is.
BTW, we should probably move the Paul Selver books from Commons, since he died in 1970, leaving his translations under copyright in his home nation.--Prosfilaes (talk) 09:14, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
All these linked publications are published in the USA; does that not make USA the source country for this work? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 11:19, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
True, though it was first performed in the UK. The other Paul Selver works in Commons:Category:Paul Selver were all published in the UK, though.--Prosfilaes (talk) 01:00, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much! I will start working on it soon :-)
As for the Commons, their rules seem too complicated to me, so I am really not sure whether the movement is necessary or not. However, the R.U.R. was published directly in the U. S., so I guess it could have been uploaded to Commons. However, I do not care very much if it is uploaded here or there. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:43, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Now I looked at it in more detail and found out that the editions are not the same, comparing e. g. the descriptions of scenes, which are much longer and more detailed in the version published by Samuel French than the description in the uploaded version published by Doubleday (besides the missing sketches). So it would be great if it were possible to get the Samuel French version somewhere too, I would be happy to proofread both of them. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 12:06, 29 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS I've converted it to djvu so you can proofread from File:R U R Rossum s Universal Robots.djvuBeleg Tâl (talk) 00:45, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, although it seems that the djvu file has lost the OCR layer. Besides that I have to confess I prefer pdf files as they can be also easily viewed outside the proofreading extension directly in a web browser, while djvu files require to download some additional software (I have it but other people who may also want to see the file usually don't). But I thank you for trying to help! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:53, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
DJVU works better with the proofreading extension though, so it's good to have both! —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:26, 30 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate pages deleted, but still showing on Index:CAB 129 post war memoranda 73-38.pdf[edit]

I've deleted the duplicate pages from the above, but are still showing. I also deleted them from the Index namespace. What have I done wrong? --kathleen wright5 (talk) 02:01, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Kathleen.wright5: The underlying PDF at Commons contains 6 pages, which is what ProofreadPage will show in the Index: for it. You may wish to consider whether duplicated pages are a significant (i.e. worth preserving) feature of the original edition, or whether it is incidental or an error introduced during digitisation. In any case, you can just mark them as not needing proofreading in the pagelist if that is indeed the case. --Xover (talk) 06:19, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Kathleen.wright5: Another way to handle it is to blank out the text and mark page as "Without text". Pages with this status will not transclude. — Ineuw talk 06:47, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Formatting: brace[edit]

After spending two days wrestling with the formatting of an article on cryptography, I have got it all solved, except for one point. On this page, in the paragraph below the cryptic message, one line has a brace under it, and I could not find a way to insert that. Luckily, though, it might not be necessary to include this brace at all, because it isn't part of the text proper, but rather a proof notation indicating "Obviously some error here - query what is intended" which didn't get corrected before the final printing. (This isn't the only muddled sentence in the article either; a pity there wasn't another round of proofreading before press-time.) Thoughts? Levana Taylor (talk) 22:53, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Levana Taylor: Absent other examples it is hard to generalise, but in this instance it appears the brace might be marking the repeated "b" (which seems an obvious error, indeed) specifically. If that is the case you might use {{SIC}} to mark that letter. If other instances truly mark a line or sentence fragment of indeterminate length I'm not sure there is any sensible way to replicate those particular markings. If the latter situation obtains it may be best to simply not try to reproduce these at all. --Xover (talk) 04:22, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Levana Taylor: I would suggest that we should reproduce the marking; we have a policy of reproducing typos. You can probably replicate it by experimenting with {{dual line}} and {{brace2}}. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:16, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Aha, that {{dual line}} is what was needed. Levana Taylor (talk) 20:12, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes in The Natural History of Selbourne[edit]

Could I have some ideas for dealing with these Notes. For example: this page. Some Letters have multiple Notes referenced, from different pages. Cheers Zoeannl (talk) 06:57, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The answer partly depends on how the transclusion will happen. Is each letter going to be transcluded separately? Or is it going to be a single section with all the letters together? Beeswaxcandle (talk) 07:14, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know. There are no descriptive titles, just Letter # so I don't know if there is any advantage to transcluding separately? Hence, looking for ideas... Cheers, Zoeannl (talk) 21:43, 12 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple columns across pages[edit]

I have a current project which includes a list of names several pages long. Each page is laid out in two columns and the entries are in alphabetical order (of surname) so for example one one page column 1 goes from John Freneau to John Hammel and column 2 continues from John Hibon to James Le Mome and the next page from Isaac Le Doux to Gentien Maret and Paul Maigne to John Picquet.

I started adding these using tables but then it occurred to me that once the pages are linked into a view of the full chapter the entries will be out of sequence as John Hammel from Page 1 col 1 will be followed directly by Isaac le Doux from page 2 col 1.

It looks as though the {{Div col}} template would solve the ordering problem when the pages are combined but the formatting options seem limited. The entries are quite widely spaced, are justified rather than right aligned, there is a large default line space, and the original uses a dividing rule between the columns.

I have been able to use an HTML <div style='column-count:2; column-rule: 1px solid black;'> to give me the rule but so far have not found a way to tighten up the text layout within the columns.

See the 'table' formatting here and the '{{Div col}}' version here

Any suggestions appreciated GreyHead (talk) 13:26, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Another problem I see is that some entries of the list which should be at the bottom of the left column are at the top of the right column.
I think the solution is in {{multicol}} and {{hin}}, see, e. g. Page:The Spirit of Russia by T G Masaryk, volume 1.pdf/499. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 14:27, 15 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The standard solution here is to not use columns at all—or rather do it all in a single column. We are aiming to make the text available, not reproduce what the publisher had to do to keep the number of pages down. Beeswaxcandle (talk) 08:08, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you both. I have opted for the single column solution and have also used the <poem> tags from the pages that Jan linked to so tighten up the formatting. The only niggle there is that it seems they can't be used in the page headers/footers. The section (currently unfinished) is here. GreyHead (talk) 12:41, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beeswaxcandle:: As you can see in the linked page above, the multicol template is used only in the noinclude sections, so the text is divided into the columns only in the page namespace, while there is just a single column in the main namespace.
@GreyHead: Yes, the <poem> tag cannot be put into the header or footer and has to be repeated in the beginning and end of every page. Another option (though not very comfortable one for long lists) is to use <br /> at the end of each line. Do you need any help with the unfinished part? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 13:46, 16 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jan.Kamenicek: Thanks for the offer, I'm fine thank you, it's a lot faster now using the <poem> tags and, all being well, I will finish this section over the weekend. GreyHead (talk) 13:20, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

page numbers in main namespace[edit]

Can anyone please help/explain what is happening here. For instance With axe and rope in the New Zealand Alps/Chapter VIII. The pages up to 86 are given to the left (in different layouts), but after the first image there are no longer page numbers visible. This is also the case in other chapters. What do we do wrong? Help appreciated, --Dick Bos (talk) 11:04, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. There were two problems, see [8] and [9]. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:35, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Jan.Kamenicek: - Thanks a lot! --Dick Bos (talk) 12:12, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Dick Bos: You are welcome. The problem partially continues at some other subpages, e. g. at With axe and rope in the New Zealand Alps/Chapter VII, where the page no. 67 is not numbered correctly. It is due to an empty page included among the transcluded pages. The solution is to exclude the empty page, similarly as I have done at [10] . --Jan Kameníček (talk) 15:07, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Is this the place for a translation?[edit]

I'm looking to develop a new way of publishing translations of historical music theory sources. Could Wikipedia do this? Would another platform be better?

(1) The entire translation should be freely accessible and easily searchable online. (2) All users can comment on specific passages, identify typos, and suggest changes, and this revision history is archivable and viewable (3) A very high volume of foreign language and English text can be viewed in parallel format, with links to images of the original source (or just searchable images of original file on one side) (4) Notation examples and audio files are integrated within the parallel text. (5) Two systems of footnotes (original and editorial) are possible. (6) Integrated bibliographical citations are possible.

Wikipedia would not publish translations, but Wikisource can under certain circumstances. See Wikisource:Translations, specifically the section on "Wikisource original translations". There would need to be a scan-backed copy of the original text at the appropriate language Wikisource (e.g. the Italian Wikisource for a text written originally in Italian.) Then, a translation can be created here based on that original.
Parallel texts are generated dynamically, rather than hosted as a single work. To create a text that is simultaneously in two different languages, you would need to work at the multilingual Wikisource instead. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wikiversity would publish an original translation or even an original book, Derekremes. If it meets Wikisource's guideline, tho, it's probably better here; Wikiversity is for more general teaching and research resources. HLHJ (talk) 01:56, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Božena Němcová: The Grandmother[edit]

I would like to proofread Index:The grandmother; a story of country life in Bohemia.pdf, but unfortunately two pages (68 and 69) are missing in this Hathitrust copy. I found the book also at , but for some reason it is not available from my place, although the copyright should have expired a really long time ago. Can somebody please check its availability from the U. S. (and whether there are the two pages), please? Thanks very much. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 08:41, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Jan.Kamenicek: The copy from NWU hosted on HathiTrust is a Google scan, which means Google Books will probably be missing the same pages (it's the same scan). However, HathiTrust also has a ditto scan from a copy at UC which is not missing these pages. As best I can tell, both copies are the same edition. --Xover (talk) 09:15, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: Good point! I did not notice it because Hathitrust usually links from an edition's catalogue record to all copies they have, but this time they have separate catalogue records for each copy for some reason. Anyway, I have uploaded the other version now. Thank you very much! --Jan Kameníček (talk) 10:04, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
They rely on the bibliographic records provided by the original institution, and those are in general pretty poor. Almost every time I visit Hathi I find some kind of quirk like that. Thus I wouldn't recommend trusting automatic links through author etc. fields blindly. Always look for title matches or your own search on the author name. --Xover (talk) 10:13, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

About create pages[edit]

Hello! Respected team, i m okay bhargav, i have some questions that which platform we make my wiki past time auto delet my pages and after i don't try agqin so, what can i make page on wiki platforms and if yes , please give me a permission for make my own pages and help me for create pages please and if your answer not, so what is reason for that, also you cqn check my name find on google this name (okay Bhargav) so, i want to page for my information so, please help me. Thank you unsigned comment by Ok bhargav (talk) .

@Ok bhargav: On this website (Wikisource) you can add published, freely licensed, English-language written works. You cannot create a page for self-promotion. I have put some information on your talk page, which should answer your questions. I will try to answer any other questions you might have. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:29, 28 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Need for an Administrator[edit]

Hello - this is a new editor here. Can an administrator help me with my user-page? Multiple times I have tried to create it, but it keeps blocking my action, because the filter thinks that I am a spam-bot. I don't know where else to find help! Thanks in advance! Orlando the Cat (talk) 04:26, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I've created it; that might let you edit it easier. If not, it would help if you could be very explicit about what error messages you're getting.--Prosfilaes (talk) 05:15, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

How to activate the OCR bot?[edit]

Every once in a while, when attempting to use OCR gadget, I get the following message: ws_ocr_daemon robot is not running..

  • Is this a daily maintenance routine at a particular time of the day?
  • If not, is it possible for me to activate it? and how? — Ineuw (talk) 22:51, 29 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I also come accross this quite often (for example just now) and it is very unpleasant as it slows down my contributions. Is there anything that could be done to improve the OCR bot's performance? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 07:35, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Almost 4 hours later, still not running... :-( --Jan Kameníček (talk) 11:18, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Per Wikisource:Administrators' noticeboard#Requesting the activation of the OCR daemon, the OCR bot does this when it is too busy running other OCR tasks to be able to do yours also. I'd suggest enabling the Google OCR gadget and using that instead when the regular OCR bot is unavailable. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 12:34, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, thank you, I did not know about the Google gadget. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 14:12, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Beleg Tâl: I thank you too.Ineuw (talk) 22:19, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Just a comment by Phe copied from the phabricator: "...the service was down and not running, those downtime are not related to 'too much request' but there was probably something broken in the past few days in the cluster or one of the numerous downtime for a planned maintenance..." [11]. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 23:02, 30 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to Jan Kameníček for the link, and to Peteforsyth for reporting it. Ineuw (talk) 02:45, 31 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Google's OCR scan is not nearly as good as Phe's. Phe's OCR interprets emdashes {{}} correctly, recreates paragraph breaks and replaces all accented characters with and "é-acute". This last feature is a mixed blessing, even if it's incorrect 50% of the time. At least it identifies where lower case accented characters are missing. Ineuw (talk) 16:11, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, it is not running again, and this frequent inaccesibility makes it much less useful. Therefore I am trying to get used to the Google gadget, whose main advantage is that it works --Jan Kameníček (talk) 17:11, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Index:The Naturalisation of the Supernatural.pdf[edit]

Can someone decide on ONE date format on the quoted letters and document that style choice , so I can be consistent in applying it? Thanks.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 18:35, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Would you mind providing links to these quoted letters that you want advice regarding? I don't see any indication on the Index page of what you are referring to. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 18:44, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, if you are proofreading this text, why don't you decide on one yourself? Are the dates really weird or something? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 19:23, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Page:The_Naturalisation_of_the_Supernatural.pdf/156 vs [[12]] , Some are using an additional smaller tag, that looks odd. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 20:51, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I also failed to find anything problematic. One of the pages contains the date "July 30th, 1893." and the other March 7th, 1905. Can you please be more specific what sort of special tag you see there and where? --Jan Kameníček (talk) 21:08, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I guess the date does look even smaller than the smaller quoted text on that particular page. Is it like that in every instance? (If not, there is no need to standardize.) If you nest smaller tags, the date will be really tiny; I'd recommend to use {{fine}} (or similar) instead so that it remains legible. However, the difference in font size is so subtle that I do not think it is necessary to reproduce it, so you can pick whichever convention you prefer, and post your decision at Index talk:The Naturalisation of the Supernatural.pdfBeleg Tâl (talk) 21:13, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, so if it is the size of font which is being discussed, I suggest using the {{fine}} template. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 22:16, 6 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes at the bottom of articles[edit]

Regarding Wikisource:WikiProject 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica

Are the comments and notes at the bottom of any given article modern? Or were they from the original article? It would seem they are modern. unsigned comment by (talk) .

@ They should be from the original. —Nizolan (talk) 18:48, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It would help answer your question if you could be a little more specific -- can you link to a specific page, or quote some of the text you're referring to? If the "note" is a statement about its copyright/public domain status, that is probably modern, and intentionally so. -Pete (talk) 19:20, 17 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Short question is why LintErrors can't be more specfic? I've spent an entire evening trying to find one.

Either tell me precisely where the error is, or Fix LintErrors so it doesn't cause me to waste my time hunting "phantom" errors. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:22, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Academic journal articles[edit]

Is there any standard way to format the metadata for academic articles? I'm thinking something like Wikiversity:Template:Article info. If not, would it be OK to just copy over that template? HLHJ (talk) 01:52, 20 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Normally we would just put that info in Wikidata, and link to it from there. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:01, 22 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, Beleg Tâl. I'm trying to figure out the best method for adding entire copyleft fulltext academic articles to Wikisource. I have an application for this, discussed on the Wikiproject Medicine group (the group is currently supplying Internet-in-a-box wiki subsets to off-the-net medical facilities). Is there a good way to link such a fulltext to the Wikidata metadata? Presumably you'd want to display that metadata here somehow, but hotlinking might be better. Is there an extant example I could look at to figure out how to do this? HLHJ (talk) 22:20, 1 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Texts on Wikisource are linked to items on Wikidata using the interwiki links functionality on Wikidata. See for example d:Q15625490 which is linked to Biodiversity Assessment of the Fishes of Saba Bank Atoll, Netherlands Antilles. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 20:31, 5 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much, Beleg Tâl, that's just what I wanted. I have looked through it and am looking at the tools credited in its edit history. I also uploaded another rather random non-medical article, but now I look at it more closely, I'm not sure the source (a journal which seems to be a research group's own publication) is reliable... I'll come back to this. HLHJ (talk) 04:10, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Fixing problematic code (alignment in captions)[edit]

I've been informed that a number of my edits have introduced an HTML problem of some kind. (I'm no HTML expert, so I don't fully understand what it's about.) I'll put an example below. Can anybody suggest a better way to code such captions? I'd like to continue to use {{FI}} template if possible.

Letters from an Oregon Ranch p. 8.png

Copyright, Kiser Bros., Portland, Ore.

"We can plainly see Mount Jefferson" (page 46)

This applies to most of the images in Letters From an Oregon Ranch and a number of other works as well. Of course, it would also be good to reduce the amount of space between the image and the caption...maybe a solution could address that as well? -Pete (talk) 19:26, 18 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Peteforsyth: Some comments if I may? The caption parameter of {{FI}} always tries to enclose its content in an HTML paragraph (<p>) tag which regretably is somewhat at odds with use of {{right}} as that template in turn uses a division (<div>) tag to do its magic. This is one of the relatively few verboten HTML constructs which may be the origin of the original complaint…and also indirectly explains the gap betwixt image and caption you mentioned! (Oh and {{c}} adds yet another <div>… but by now the damage has already been done and cue parable spilt milk &c.)

May I humbly propose something like:

|file=Letters from an Oregon Ranch p. 8.png
|caption={{sm|Copyright, Kiser Bros., Portland, Ore.}}</p>
"We can plainly see Mount Jefferson" (page 46)}}
which displays as:
Letters from an Oregon Ranch p. 8.png
Copyright, Kiser Bros., Portland, Ore.

"We can plainly see Mount Jefferson" (page 46)

Now for a little explanation (as I have cheated a little bit!) talign=right is used solely to align the "Copyright" line and its effect ends at the </p> fragment. tstyle=margin:0 is used to eliminate padding around and within the caption (everybody forgets that paragraphs always add typically around 7px margin-top and margin-bottom!) Finally {{p|ac|m0}} adds a new paragraph with center aligning and margins (re)suppressed to hold the main part of the caption; i.e. "MOUNT JEFFERSON &c.
Hope this is useful? 08:56, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks, this helps me understand the problem and I think it's a good solution. In an ideal world, I tink there would be a little more space between the (c) notice and the actual caption (and/or a little less space between the caption's two lines). Maybe if I study the template you introduced I can find a way to accomplish this; but I wouldn't say it's mission-critical. Much appreciated! -Pete (talk) 19:12, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Also, just out of curiosity -- won't this "cheat" introduce an extraneous closing paragraph tag? I assume that's simply ignored, and therefore not a problem -- but curious if I'm interpreting the code correctly. -Pete (talk) 19:13, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes it does create another issues with mismatched tags, the REAL solution would be to fix {{img float}} so it can handle the block level elements correctly, but given past experience I don't see that happening certain contributors are aggressively dissuaded from "too clever by half" solution , as opposed to actual repairs to the underlying templates. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:24, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Peteforsyth: Regarding the line spacing in the caption issue; is this more to your liking?
|file=Letters from an Oregon Ranch p. 8.png
|caption={{sm|Copyright, Kiser Bros., Portland, Ore.}}</p>
{{p|class=imgCaption|ac}}MOUNT JEFFERSON, FROM HOOVER'S BUTTE<br />
"We can plainly see Mount Jefferson" (page 46)}}
which displays as:
Letters from an Oregon Ranch p. 8.png
Copyright, Kiser Bros., Portland, Ore.

"We can plainly see Mount Jefferson" (page 46)

I dropped the m0 as I misunderstood your requirement—which reintroduces that 7px inter-paragraph margin I referred to before. As for the concern about extraneous closing paragraph tags the balance between opening and closing tags is maintained thus:
  • <p> is generated internally by {{FI}} just after image and in front of caption—furthermore this is the paragraph which conveys the talign and tstyle information into HTML, and is closed by…
  • </p> this explicitly coded tag ends the Copyright line fragment and also ends right-alignment…
  • A second <p> is generated by {{p}} (Also a side note here: I added class=imgCaption as I missed the (slight) issue of {{FI}} marking the caption block with this particular class name and thought I might as well make the two paragraphs as similar as possible in this respect.)
  • </p> is generated internally by {{FI}} to close off the caption block. This is the cheat in that {{FI}} "thinks" it is encapsulating a single parargraph's text and in fact here it has been handed two. This is not an issue because {{FI}} furthermore encloses the whole image+caption entity within a <div> block and thus the whole mess hangs together!
@ShakespeareFan00: I hope the above exposition allays your concerns. {{FI}} is a surprisingly flexible and robust template and if anything ought to act as a model for modifications to other templates such as {{img float}}… However the two templates do not satisfy the same purposes at all and are not generically interchangeable. {{FI}} is superior for situations where a (possibly variable size) image+caption stands alone either within a page or floats off to one side. {{img float}} lends itself better to text winding around a captioned image of fixed dimensions. Not at all the same animals!
Thank you for prompting this little stroll down memory lane… 22:51, 19 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks very much, this is all very helpful -- both to the immediate task at hand, and also giving me a nice lesson in the underlying issues. I'll start implementing this shortly! -Pete (talk) 07:25, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

{{Ditto}} and {{hi}} incompatibility...[edit]

Page:The Prince (translated by William K. Marriott).djvu/303

Using {{hi/s}} {{hi/e}} causes {{ditto}} to fail. Please fix the templates, or provide a STABLE way of doing this. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:52, 21 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

{{hi/s}}<span style="display:inline-block; text-indent: 0;">{{ditto|Here is a STABLE way of doing this.}}</span>{{hi/e}} Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:53, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That is implemented as : , I've also tried it with a table.

I'd like a second opinion on which approach would be better to use before formatting all the Notes pages. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:29, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Changing the title of a page[edit]

I just edited the page for John Donne's epigram "Hero and Leander" - it was incorrectly spelled as "Hero and Leader." I changed the title in the page entry, but "Hero and Leader" is still appearing, and a corrected link goes to the Marlow poem instead of the Donne epigram. Can anyone tell me how to fix this (or do I just need to wait for the change to percolate through)

Thanks unsigned comment by Dkohen (talk) .

Yes check.svg Done , all taken care of now —Beleg Tâl (talk) 03:45, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page:The Prince (translated by William K. Marriott).djvu/311[edit]

The approach I am using here works, but adding {{p}} tags for each entry would be inefficient. @Xover: is this an approach where a TemplateStyles approach to redefine the P handling for each block of entries could be implemented for this index? It's mostly a simple margin collapse, and combination of that with the CSS style in the dent. It would be nice to be able to customise the indentation and paragraph break spacing behaviour, but I'm not sure TemplateStyles was advanced enough to handle paramatised generation of CSS per called block yet. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:51, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@ShakespeareFan00: Provided I understand correctly what you mean, this sounds like it could be reasonably solved by using <p class="no-vertical-space"></p> and a per-work stylesheet that removed the margins. That is, in the page markup you use a template that tags it as a particular class name, and then write custom CSS that styles all instances of that class however you want. Provided each paragraph is styled the same, you would not need actually parametrized CSS for this.
For practical reasons we would probably want to require some kind of prefix on the CSS class name (to avoid collisions), or some magic in MW (ProofreadPage and TemplateStyles) that takes care of the scoping. At small volume, for simple cases, and CSS that is used in a single work, this is not likely to be an actual problem; but worth keeping in mind. --Xover (talk) 09:13, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but I'd like to avoid having to type the P class=foo stuff individually for each paragraph, Ideally what I'd like is {{p-collapse/s}} and {{p-collapse/e}} I can apply over an entire block, which is at most 4 calls per page as opposed to a considerable number of {{p}} calls. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:18, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Probably doable by using <div class="no-vertical-space"></div> around all the paragraphs and then using a stylesheet that applies the style to > p. But since the actual paragraphs are then generated by Mediawiki there is some fragility here that may or may not be a problem in practice. --Xover (talk) 10:24, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The other concern, is that the final paragraph of the block would need to revert back to normal behaviour at the bottom. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 10:42, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
See - Page:The Prince (translated by William K. Marriott).djvu/311 there is a gap between the A and B block entries.
Also- [13] Why is the bottom entry mis-aligned, I was using the /s /e variants to accommodate the split layout?
It seems that at the end of the page it fails to wrap the end paragraph. This is a LONG-standing issue that no-one seems to have wanted to tackle prviosuly. Using {{nop}} in the footer did not change the behaviour. I've also asked at least TWICE for the whitespace behaviour to be PROPERLY DOCUMENTED so I'm not playing hunt the "pedantic minutiae" MANY, MANY, TIMES. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:16, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: can you take a look at the experimental version, and tweak? Thanks..ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:40, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ShakespeareFan00: You'll need to give me more to work with. What pages am I looking at; what am I looking for there; and what needs tweaking? --Xover (talk) 13:50, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Xover: Template:P-collapse/s/style.css being the style-sheet ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:03, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
On Page:The Prince (translated by William K. Marriott).djvu/311 The text in the scan has a gap between the A and B block of entries. In the code I've ended one P-collapse block and opened a new one.
What needs to happen in the CSS style, is that the margin behaviour for the top margin/padding reverts to normal for the first entry in a collapsed block (i.e the first entry of the B block) ,and conversely needs to revert to normal for the bottom margin in the final paragraph of a block (i.e the end of the paragrpah representing the last entry of the block of A entries.) I had a possible approach commented in the style sheet, but wasn't sure how to cancel a previously defined style back to the normal/default inherited values. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:03, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You should be able to do that by simply adding a margin to the div itself. I've done that: take a look and see if that does it? --Xover (talk) 14:20, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Also added some rules for the first and last P elements, hope it doesn't add additional space, I an re-comment them if needed. Seems to work so far.

Text Indentation handling[edit]

@Xover: Relating to Page:The Prince (translated by William K. Marriott).djvu/313 Currently I am using {{dent/s}}, {{dent/e}} to set up the text indent, however here there is a slight issue with this, given that the start of the page is a continuation of the previous entry and so as such doesn't need the indent. The slight discrepancy can be worked with for now, but in time it would be nice to be able to have an expanded {{dent/c}} that gives a more accurate behaviour (My current attempt doesn't actually work properly yet). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:40, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alternatively, {{Dent/s}} that could be amended to have a suppression parameter for when it's used in Page: namespace headers? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:40, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The templates make it kinda hard to see, but all of them are really just spitting out HTML div elements with some associated CSS. Most of the /e templates spit out a plain </div>. Which means what you're really doing here isn't some special Mediawiki syntax: it's just various shortcuts for inserting HTML code. And as such, anything you want treated specially needs to be marked up specially.
I can't immediately think of any way to make {{dent/s}} automatically correct for being in the Page: namespace and set an indentation that is correct relative to whatever you had it set to on the previous page (and the pages may even be stored out of order). But simply wrapping the special bit in a separate {{dent/s}}, ending it when the special bit is done, and then adding the regular dent for the rest of the page is relatively cheap. --Xover (talk) 15:17, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Good thinking in regard to the modified wrapping, but it would have caused problems for the nesting of HTML tags. For now I've just taken out the indentation entirely, and until {{dent}} or another template can be repaired to work correctly over multiple paragraphs and inside other "classed" DIV's without resetting stuff. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:14, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
For whatever reason putting {{dent/s}}{{dent/e}} inside the {{p-collapse/s}}{{p-collapse/e}} causes the P handling to revert back to the default behaviour. Well at least we tried to to get it working. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:19, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The style is defined as DIV -> P but where the dent is put in it would be DIV-> DIV -> P, I'm not sure there's a way in CSS to say DIV -> (any number of sub levels) -> P Sigh :( ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 16:30, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Problem exists between user and keyboard, Seems I'd got the CSS rule wrong :) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 17:44, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Bulk replacement request[edit]

Index:The Life of the Spider.djvu Currently this uses {{RunningHeader-centered}} in the header and footer of a number of pages.. The code given could be easily replaced with a much simple {{center}} given that the single element present is in the center location, but to do it for all pages manually would be time consuming. Is there someone here that can make the appropriate change with a script, AWB or bot rapidly? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:08, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done manually, but it would be nice to have a response sometimes. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 11:22, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Expecting a response for a highly technical request in only 2.5 hours is extremely optimistic. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 16:47, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@ShakespeareFan00: Are you familiar with the AWB software? If you're using Windows, it's a great option for stuff like this. I think it's pretty straightforward to figure out, but I'm happy to answer questions if needed. -Pete (talk) 19:25, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware of AWB, but feel I lack the communities trust to use it here at Wikisource. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 19:29, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Something is corrupt on this page The War with Mexico/Volume 2/Appendix[edit]

Can someone please take a look and advise. Thanks.Ineuw (talk) 06:27, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Not to panic. When page 562 is formatted correctly no doubt all will come good! 08:00, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Rather than using a table, had you considered using {{p-collapse/s}}{{p-collapse/e}}? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 15:37, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I considered all formats but settled on tables, being the most versatile.Ineuw (talk) 20:30, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
PS: @ Thanks, the table ended on Page:The War with Mexico, Vol 2.djvu/542 and the main namespace page is fixed.Ineuw (talk) 22:02, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Ineuw: You are quite correct. I did not word it well but meant only after the entire set of transcluded pages is (at least) at proofread standard — if the main-space problem remains then is the time to start seriously bug-hunting. I missed the fact Appendix A (and thus the table, too) ended on page 524! 04:44, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Understood what you said about the set. Instead, there are a lot of small tables within the section.Ineuw (talk) 08:13, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page:Atlas of the Munsell color system.djvu/9[edit]

Can someone come up with a way to convert the Munsell colors back to RGB for the table cell backgrounds? I tried using a convertor/picker here [14] but the colors picked bear little resemblance to those in the (faded) chart.

I am out of my depth and so an expert to write a conversion script would be VERY much appreciated. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:42, 23 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find anything better than the link you provided. Maybe w:Wikipedia:WikiProject Color will be able to point you in the right direction? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:05, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You could also just open the scan image in Paint or GIMP or something, and use the colour picker tool to identify an approximate colour to use. —Beleg Tâl (talk) 13:06, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Due to a 'misunderstanding' I'm not editing on Wikipedia right now, otherwise I would have asked an appropriate project there already. Nothing to stop another contributor from doing so though. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:42, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]


A number of the subpages for this translation are giving rise to "fostered content" , which typically means a table has been misformatted somewhow. Can an experienced contributor take a look and provide a generalised fix that could be applied across all the pages?

(side note, The translation is marked as incomplete). ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:08, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]


The second example uses a score.

However, the SCORE extension generates a DIV block wrapping the formatted score output. Per HTML structuring conventions, you can't put a DIV inside a SPAN.

Can someone advis on how this might be repaired, or do I need to raise a Phabircator ticket like I did for a related issue with the POEM tag? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:41, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Use a different template that does not require the contents to be inline elements? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 02:09, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Whilst the conventional rule is a normal SPAN may not wrap a normal DIV that is not quite what is happening here. Strictly a SPAN modified via display attribute into an inline-block is attempting to wrap a block DIV element which appears to be permissible in some browser renderings. I pose the question (as I do not know myself) if this is a legal (if rather borderline) construct. Any expert opinions? 10:25, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

British Calendar Act of 1751[edit]

Can some PLEASE explain why the formatting on this is COMPLETELY *&&^ED up? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 22:01, 24 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Can you please explain what part and in what manner is the formatting completely ***ed up? —Beleg Tâl (talk) 02:08, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Prior to my subsequent updates, the 'sidetitles' overlapped the main body text, in the portion that represented the original Act. This was determined to be due to it using a version of {{cl-act-t}} which was subsequently edited considerably. Replacing it with {{cl-act-h}} and cleaning up the excessive DIV based formatting in that section solved the issue. The rest of the text could be 'standardised' though.

ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:34, 25 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Page numbers do not display correctly..[edit]

See :-- The Prince (translated by William K. Marriott)/How Many Kinds of Principalities there are, and by what Means they are acquired In Firefox, the page numbers are wrong or mis-aligned with respect to other content on the page. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:39, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

It should be OK now, I excluded the empty pages. --Jan Kameníček (talk) 12:57, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, it would be nice if the pages tag had a a noblanks option so the page concerned didn't need to be listed individualy in this use case.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 13:23, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm. I though it automatically excluded pages marked as "Without text"? --Xover (talk) 14:02, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
No it doesn't. They take up zero vertical space when they are empty, but they are still transcluded. Comes in handy sometimes, for example when transcluding pages that use {{iwpage}} to pull content from another wikisource, but which have no local content that needs proofreading —Beleg Tâl (talk) 15:35, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

[SOLVED] A database error bug in Save a Gadget setting - already reported[edit]

Unchecked the Easy LST option which generated a database query error on Save. Could someone verify it? Ineuw (talk) 19:33, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked and can't reproduce. If there is a deployment underway currently then it was probably something transient related to that. --Xover (talk) 20:53, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for checking. It was repaired/resolved within a few minutes by the powers that be. Ineuw (talk) 23:01, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Deleting a duplicate book[edit]

Uploaded this file only to find an identical file already validated in pdf format. The difference is that my upload (.djvu) came from Internet Archive, and the .pdf came from Google books. Downloaded the .pdf and replaced the Google claim with a blank page.

I would like to delete the .djvu version. Unless I am mistaken, deleting the index page does not delete the pages. How can I go about removing the pages as well? Ineuw (talk) 06:40, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Ineuw: So far as I know there is no special magic involved: both the index and the pages are just wiki pages that happen to be in the Index: and Page: namespaces, and are deleted just like every other wiki page. But to avoid the tedium you will probably want to enable the MassDelete tool at the bottom of the Gadgets section of your Preferences so that you can use Special:MassDelete to do them all in one batch (temporary bot flag is probably a good idea too). --Xover (talk) 06:59, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Much appreciated. Will tackle it tomorrow.Ineuw (talk) 07:10, 30 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Migrating from Index:A Chinese and English vocabulary, in the Tie-chiu dialect.djvu to Index:A Chinese and English vocabulary, in the Tie-chiu dialect.pdf[edit]

Are there any bots that can be used to ease the process of migrating to Index:A Chinese and English vocabulary, in the Tie-chiu dialect.pdf?

(If not, could I personally use AWB?) Suzukaze-c (talk) 02:35, 1 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]